The Fallacy of "Bolero"
StoOdin101
>sexiest piece of music ever written.
No doubt because the person encountered it juxtaposed with Bo Derek's
writhings. While I like Bolero quite a bit, and am amused to note that the
TV composer Alexander Courage stole a few bars for fight music in the old
"Star Trek" series, I hardly hear it as "sexy" and neither did Ravel, who
called it a crescendo without music.
However, this brings to mind the old "program-vs.-absolute" argument.
Someone is told Bolero is about sex, so they find it sexy. They're told
"Pacific 231" is about a steam locomotive, so they enjoy it. (Read
Honegger's "Je Suis Compositeur" for some intersting insight on that
work.) Would Corigliano's nightmarish, often cacophonous First Symphony
have made it to the charts if its program had been from Edgar Allan Poe
rather than the real-life horror of AIDS?
Chinh Nguyen
INDIGOCOP <indi...@aol.com> wrote:
>I do not understand and never shall why invective and demeaning language
>ever need be used against a fine work of art. What is it in man that he
Um... not that I support the first poster, but Ravel was known not to be
particularly fond of Bolero. Now, of course, that doesn't mean it's not
a fine work of art...
--
--Chinh Nguyen
chin...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu
"Now excuse me. I must appear in a tortilla in Mexico." -- God
Paul McEvoy
: In article <479afg$8...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, jeffe...@aol.com
: (Jeffeditor) writes:
: >I have to laugh when someone I know refers to Ravel's Bolero as the
: >sexiest piece of music ever written. I am amazed at the gullability of
: the
: >public-at-large by a piece of popular culture
: > I have a better
: >suggestion. In 1969, Seiji Ozawa recorded Tchaikovsky's Fifth Symphony
: >with the Chicago Symphony. The second movement makes "Bolero" sound like
: >"Happy Birthday".
: I do not understand and never shall why invective and demeaning language
: ever need be used against a fine work of art. What is it in man that he
: has to boast that what he likes is superior to what other men love and
: like?
: Would you demean another man's wife and say yours is prettier? It is a
: clod I hear speaking here, not a gentleman of refinement.
Would you demean another man's attitude in belief that yours is far
superior? I'm a hipocrite, but at least I can look myself in the mirror
and know it. Why must you boast about how accepting you are of art when
you can't except someone else's opinion? please.....
Paul McEvoy
pmc...@lynx.neu.edu
jat...@fn1.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
: > I have a better
: >suggestion. In 1969, Seiji Ozawa recorded Tchaikovsky's Fifth Symphony
: >with the Chicago Symphony. The second movement makes "Bolero" sound like
: >"Happy Birthday".
: I do not understand and never shall why invective and demeaning language
: ever need be used against a fine work of art. What is it in man that he
: has to boast that what he likes is superior to what other men love and
: like?
: Would you demean another man's wife and say yours is prettier? It is a
: clod I hear speaking here, not a gentleman of refinement.
It still doesn't change the fact that "Bolero" is likely the most boring
piece of classical music ever written.
--
*******************************************************************************
* *
* Bernhard Michael Jatzeck email: jat...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca *
* *
*******************************************************************************
v
Steven Sullivan
: It still doesn't change the fact that "Bolero" is likely the most boring
: piece of classical music ever written.
you left off 'by someone other than Bruckner'.
-S.
(actually I've always kinda liked Bolero).
Tony Movshon
>What exactly did Ravel say of Bolero? My recollection is that
>he made at least one very sarcastic comment that went something
>like this:
>
> I have written only one masterpiece, and it has no music
> in it.
Close. "The Bolero is my one true work of genius. Unfortunately,
there's no music in it"
Tony Movshon
Center for Neural Science
New York University
claudio_szwarcfiter
Bolero. He considered it an interesting piece in which the repetitiveness
generated an interesting effect, and that´s all.
However, a composer´s work strangely assumes an autonomous existence
independent of the composer´s perceptions of its quality or relevance at the
time. Correct me if I´m wrong, but Ravel didn´t place so much importance on
his Concerto for the Left hand either, although it´s truly a masterpiece.
Anyway, the Bolero cannot be compared to pieces such as the Concerto
for the Left Hand, Gaspard de la Nuit and the Intruduction and Allegro.
Can someone constructively criticise my statement that a musician´s
composition may be a masterpiece, contrary to the composer´s opinion about
the same piece?
Claudio Szwarcfiter
Pontificial Catholic University - Rio de Janeiro
e-mail szw...@eros.rdc.puc-rio.br
John B.
>>I have to laugh when someone I know refers to Ravel's Bolero as the
>>sexiest piece of music ever written.
>No doubt because the person encountered it juxtaposed with Bo Derek's
>writhings. While I like Bolero quite a bit, and am amused to note that the
>TV composer Alexander Courage stole a few bars for fight music in the old
>"Star Trek" series, I hardly hear it as "sexy" and neither did Ravel, who
>called it a crescendo without music.
>However, this brings to mind the old "program-vs.-absolute" argument.
>Someone is told Bolero is about sex, so they find it sexy. They're told
>"Pacific 231" is about a steam locomotive, so they enjoy it. (Read
>Honegger's "Je Suis Compositeur" for some intersting insight on that
>work.) Would Corigliano's nightmarish, often cacophonous First Symphony
>have made it to the charts if its program had been from Edgar Allan Poe
>rather than the real-life horror of AIDS?
I'm afraid it's not very PC, but you're right. In fact, AID's
inspired works have gained some notoriety recently, like the
Corigaliano Symphony - even the Springsteen award winning Philadelphia
title track. Though seemingly worlds apart in content and substance,
both are quite overrated and its popularity is due primarily to its
extra-musical connotations. Personally, while the Corigliano is an
agreeable work, I found the Albeniz quotations bothersome. And the
Springsteen number would not have made a dent without the movie. The
same for the Ravel, hardly erotic.
John B.
Alain Dagher
|> Juxtaposing Bolero with Bo Derek's image on the screen does absolutely
|> nothing to enhance the music. Is "Bolero" romantic? Probably, but for
|> those of you looking for classical 'make-out' music., I have a better
|> suggestion. In 1969, Seiji Ozawa recorded Tchaikovsky's Fifth Symphony
|> with the Chicago Symphony. The second movement makes "Bolero" sound like
I do believe Tchaikovsky's Fifth was programmed to be a musical depiction of sex. Can anyone
confirm this? If this is the case, then one can only be amazed at Tchaikovsky's wondrous ability
to climax, how often, 7, 8 times? in less than one hour.
Also: all of Ravel's music is sexy.
Incidentally, nostalgic fans will recall that, long before Bo Derek, Bolero was Keith Partridge's favourite
make out piece. (I'm ashamed I remember that, really.)
Alain.
Robert Lamb
> In article <47c9q2$n...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu>, chin...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Chinh Nguyen) writes:
> |> Um... not that I support the first poster, but Ravel was known not to be
> |> particularly fond of Bolero. Now, of course, that doesn't mean it's not
> |> a fine work of art...
> What exactly did Ravel say of Bolero? My recollection is that
> he made at least one very sarcastic comment that went something
> like this:
> I have written only one masterpiece, and it has no music
> in it.
> My understanding is that he wrote this either as a teaching
> piece (when was a teacher) or an exercise (when he was a student)
> at the Paris Conservatory for a class in orchestration. The
> piece was never really intended as "music" as much as it was
> intended as a demonstration of orchestral color and dynamics.
> Can anybody verify/adjust/debunk this?
I remember reading ages ago that Bolero was "dictated" to Ravel by the
noted Armenian mystic Gurdjieff... certainly it bears a strong
resemblence to some Mevlevi (whirling dervish) pieces.
--
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Robert Lamb rl...@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia
Life isn't meaningless: it just has a poor signal to noise ratio.
Bill Alford
I wish that people would check the facts before posting here. Ravel's Bolero
was written in 1928, the same year in which he made a tour of the US and way
beyond his conservatoire years. It was written as a commission from the
dancer Ida Rubinstein as a seductive Spanish ballet set in a Spanish tavern.
Ravel's Bolero is an outstanding example of his consummate orchestration
abilities. Has anybody got any more information on the other meaning of
consummate with regard to Ravel? I have my own personal speculations on this.
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Chang Wu Ji
lies in the fact that on this one theme Ravel can unravel(no pun intended here)
all the distinct colors of the orchestra and hypnotize the audience for about
15 minutes. It is not suppose to be a earthshattering piece like a Bruckner or
Mahler symphony that leaves one pondering the meaning of life.
Jeffrey Basista
In article <48bu67$s...@cnn.Princeton.EDU>, miku...@comet.Princeton.EDU (Margaret Mikulska) writes:
|> >Can anybody verify/adjust/debunk this?
|> |> Debunk.
|>
|> "Bolero" was written in 1928 for the dancer Ida Rubinstein who simply
|> asked Ravel to write for her a ballet piece with Spanish flavor. It was
|> premiered on November 22, 1928, at the Opera in Paris.
Thanks *very* much. Since at least one other person had heard
the story I heard, it's very helpful to have someone set us
straight.
Alain Dagher
I don't know about anyone else, but no piece of music has ever left me pondering
the meaning of life. Not even "I Don't Care" by the Ramones.
Alain.