I hate online shopping
david...@aol.com
I surprisingly often receive orders damaged in transit. If I order a
single CD, I take it for granted that the jewel case will be cracked,
and I'm seldom wrong. Today I received Lucchesini's recording of the
complete Beethoven sonatas from J & R, and, while the CD's are fine,
the box is damaged. What I wouldn't give to live in the era of the
brick and mortar store!
-david gable
Jerry
Hats off to Tower (Japan), who put the CDs inside of a cardboard inner
box
that protects the plastic cases from damage during transit.
Sadly, the days of brick-and-mortar retailing may be numbered. If you
live in
a suburban location (or even in some metro areas), there is no longer
a serious retail outlet for classical CDs (Borders in my suburban NJ
town
can't even bother to stock the few classical CDs featured in its
monthly
ad in Gramophone - North American Edition).
What a strange turn has taken place in retailing in this country.
There was a time when the marketing types were touting the
browser-bin, impulse-buying concept.
Those were the days.
William Sommerwerck
> There was a time when the marketing types were touting the
> browser-bin, impulse-buying concept.
Given a high-speed connection, this is doable over the Web, if someone
wanted to. I'm amazed that we don't have browsing kiosks in b&m stores,
where you can look for _any_ recording of anything, and place an order if it
isn't in stock.
The 21st-century WERM I keep begging for would also help.
Matthew B. Tepper
the following letters to be typed in
news:YKudnWzWkvrCSuvb...@comcast.com:
>> What a strange turn has taken place in retailing in this country.
>> There was a time when the marketing types were touting the browser-bin,
>> impulse-buying concept.
>
> Given a high-speed connection, this is doable over the Web, if someone
> wanted to. I'm amazed that we don't have browsing kiosks in b&m stores,
> where you can look for _any_ recording of anything, and place an order
> if it isn't in stock.
Well, some stores have actual Muze kiosks (Amoeba Music in Hollywood), and
some have their own branded databases which may in some fashion derive from
the Muze database (Borders?), so it's theoretically possible, given money.
But, as I've said before, while I strongly prefer physically browsing
recordings, I could accept an online experience ***IF*** it gave me the
same options as physical browsing. This means being able to examine the
front and back (and edges, where appropriate!) of the package in their
entirety, at real size or larger, and a full listing of the entire contents
and performer names. Most online vendors don't even come close to this.
Being able to hear thirty-second-long clips of some tracks is nice, and for
me the "recommendations based on what you have already bought" is generally
worse than useless. I realize it's folly to expect that the physical
browsing experience can't be absolutely duplicated, but could I at least be
allowed to have something that is **as good**, rather than worse?
> The 21st-century WERM I keep begging for would also help.
Dream on! I was thinking back in the 1980s that if I won the lottery, one
of the things I would do would be to finance an update of WERM through the
end of the LP era.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Harrington/Coy is a gay wrestler who won't come out of the closet
david...@aol.com
For that matter, it's virtually impossible to order a book online
without receiving a copy with the cover at least slightly scuffed.
There's nothing like leaving a store with a pristine copy of a book or
record, at least not online.
-david gable
ukr...@yahoo.com
wkasimer
> I surprisingly often receive orders damaged in transit. If I order a
> single CD, I take it for granted that the jewel case will be cracked,
> and I'm seldom wrong.
I've been pretty lucky, or have chosen vendors well. It still happens
now and then, but not often. BRO, however, used to have a very, very
high breakage percentage, which seems to have improved over the last
couple of years (now the problem is that their packages are nearly
impossible to open).
Today I received Lucchesini's recording of the
> complete Beethoven sonatas from J & R, and, while the CD's are fine,
> the box is damaged.
Unfortunately, this happens pretty often - usually just a corner
knocked in a bit, but sometimes it looks like the box was run over by
a truck. And of course, you can't replace these as you can a jewel
box.
Bill
wkasimer
> But, as I've said before, while I strongly prefer physically browsing
> recordings, I could accept an online experience ***IF*** it gave me the
> same options as physical browsing. This means being able to examine the
> front and back (and edges, where appropriate!) of the package in their
> entirety, at real size or larger, and a full listing of the entire contents
> and performer names. Most online vendors don't even come close to this.
It must be said, though, that sometimes the CD itself lacks a full
listing of contents and performers - in this case, online vendors
sometimes have MORE information than you can glean at a bricks 'n'
mortar establishment.
Bill
A. Brain
news:1182192985....@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
Well, we are fortunate enough to have
the LTIS, but they just renewed their
lease for only another year. Meanwhile,
what I find really puzzling is that there is
a proliferation of retail stores here, some
of them really baffling, Stores in high-end
retail centers selling nothing but kids'
bathing suits, stores that sell nothing but
candles, etc.
--
A. Brain
Remove NOSPAM for email.
Russ and/or Martha Oppenheim
"Matthew B. Tepper" <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Xns99537FD7496...@207.217.125.201...
> "William Sommerwerck" <grizzle...@comcast.net> appears to have caused
> the following letters to be typed in
> news:YKudnWzWkvrCSuvb...@comcast.com:
>
>
>
> Dream on! I was thinking back in the 1980s that if I won the lottery, one
> of the things I would do would be to finance an update of WERM through the
> end of the LP era.
>
WERM? Shux, I'd be grateful just to have Schwann back.
Russ (not Martha)
J.Martin
wrote:
> I surprisingly often receive orders damaged in transit. If I order a
> single CD, I take it for granted that the jewel case will be cracked,
> and I'm seldom wrong.
And god help you if you do have a problem with the CD itself and need
to exchange it. I received a defective copy of the Jansons
Shostakovich cycle set from towerrecords.com in January, and am still
trying to get a replacement or refund out of it. Of course, this was
complicated by the fact that tower changed ownership in the meantime,
etc, but still, there's been no excuse for the lack of
responsiveness, and it makes me long for the days when I could just
take the defective copy back to the local Tower, walk in the door, and
tell the clerk I wanted a refund. Sigh....
J.
Richard Loeb
news:1182203854.1...@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
and they sent me a replacement CD - this has happened more than once.
Richard
Norman M. Schwartz
> and it makes me long for the days when I could just
> take the defective copy back to the local Tower, walk in the door, and
> tell the clerk I wanted a refund. Sigh....
>
"a refund"?
IIRC you had two weeks from the purchase date to come back for an _exchange_
only (no such thing as money back).
If it wasn't in stock, I would have to wait until they received a
replacement copy. That was the policy in the Tower stores I frequented.
> J.
J.Martin
> "a refund"?
> IIRC you had two weeks from the purchase date to come back for an _exchange_
> only (no such thing as money back).
I seem to recall that they would offer store credit/exchange if they
didn't have an item in stock, but you're probably right about
refunds. Trouble is, you go online and you get neither. All I'm
getting out of Tower.com, when I get a response at all, is yet another
email asking for my order number--which of course I've included in
every email to them. Argh.
J.
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in
Not very often, in my experience, Bill. Hate to sound contrary.
Matthew B. Tepper
@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:
Yes, and for example, the Keilberth "Walküre" and "Siegfried" on Testament
that I bought last Friday were in pristine shape. It would be annoying
indeed if I were to order the "Rheingold" and "Götterdämmerung" and find
that one or the other had a box with a crimped corner.
A. Brain
business. And every site seems to have different
rules for "user names" and passwords so you
can't use the same one for every site.
And some sites seem like they are always
forcing you to change your name and
password.
I just tried to place an order and found
that I have to use "PayPal". I think I
ran into that hassle before (BRO perhaps?)
and finally just e-mailed my cart and cc
info.
At the LTIS, I can borrow recordings
from the "used" section and I can put
some on "hold" while I check to see
if I really want them, etc. Now on
hold: A DVD of "Meistersinger"
from the mid-'80s with Hermann
Prey as Beckmesser, one of his
great roles.
And I can leave the dog there for
a few minutes while I stop in at
the adjacent food store. (He's welcome
at the liquor store right next door,
but you can't take him into a food store
or restaurant.)
--
A. Brain
Remove NOSPAM for email.
<david...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1182196599.5...@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
Larry Rinkel
"wkasimer" <wkas...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1182200591.1...@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
A copy I order through Amazon Marketplace of the new Colin Davis Falstaff
arrived not only with the case cracked, but one of the CDs as well. This was
obvious carrier mishandling, but the seller was decent about it and refunded
my money when I emailed him a digital photograph of the damage. After
playing CD1 once, I didn't like the performance enough to find another copy.
(When another Amazon Marketplace seller sold me a copy of the Brueggen Haydn
Paris symphonies that wouldn't play one track, he refused to refund my
money, claiming I caused the damage myself and had bought the set only to
burn a CD-R and then return the original. I suppose that's why I ordered
another copy. I later sold the bad set privately and gave the buyer a CD-R
burned from the good set I later bought.)
William Sommerwerck
> every site seems to have different rules for "user names"
Sure you can. Passwords are always case-sensitive, and most sites require at
least 6 characters. There's at least one piece of freeware that creates
strong random passwords and manages them for you.
User names can be a bit trickier, but I stick with three... William
Sommerwerck, GrizzledGeezer, and my e-mail address.
> And some sites seem like they are always forcing you
> to change your name and password.
This is uncommon. I've experienced it only with my bank (where it makes
sense) -- and when working at Microsoft.
> I just tried to place an order and found that I have to use
> "PayPal". I think I ran into that hassle before (BRO, perhaps?)
> and finally just e-mailed my cart and cc info.
PayPal is easy to use -- though it requires having a credit card for
"backup", even if you have cash in your PayPal account. PayPal is a great
advantage when trying to sell stuff overseas. I've sold several items
recently -- both to US and European customers -- that would not have been
practical to sell if I hadn't had PayPal. And, in the case of the eBay
sales, I got more money than I would have if I were limited to US customers.
(Before you ask "How is that?", remember that the highest bid wins.)
I even signed up for Google Checkout last year -- during the initial
promotional period, it saved me several hundred dollars on merchandise from
my Wish List.
There is a certain pleasure in rummaging the bins. But stores carry fewer
classical CDs than they did even 10 years ago, while the total number of
classical recordings has skyrocketed in the past 35 years (and especially
since the introduction of CD). The result is that b&m stores carry a smaller
percentage of available recordings, which reduces the advantages (and
pleasures) of physical browsing.
I remember, about 30 years ago, going with my best friend to a DC record
store with a huge classical "warehouse". I suspect that most of the
classical titles available in the US were stocked (at least from all but the
smallest labels). I doubt there's any current b&m store that even remotely
approaches that selection.
Cyber-browsing offers one advantage not available at b&m stores -- you can
sort the recordings any way you want.
Richard Schultz
:> What a strange turn has taken place in retailing in this country.
:> There was a time when the marketing types were touting the
:> browser-bin, impulse-buying concept.
:
: Given a high-speed connection, this is doable over the Web, if someone
: wanted to.
It's actually fairly easy to browse at Berkshire Record Outlet. If you
do a blank search, it returns all of the CDs in reverse order of their
having been stocked (newest first). You can do the same thing for a
particular label by doing an advanced search. I find that a fairly
high percentage of my BRO purchases are essentially impulse buys, the
principle usually being that for $2.99, I haven't lost much if the
recording turns out to be bad.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"It never seems to occur to people that a man might just want to write
a piece of music."
-R. Vaughan Williams
Steve de Mena
Absurd. I have ordered an unbelievable amount of
CDs online and rarely receive a cracked one.
Of course, with the money you save shopping online
you could easily buy a 100 pack of jewel cases and
replace the broken ones and still come out ahead.
I bet you miss dial telephones too.
Steve
Steve de Mena
>> What a strange turn has taken place in retailing in this country.
>> There was a time when the marketing types were touting the
>> browser-bin, impulse-buying concept.
>
> Given a high-speed connection, this is doable over the Web, if someone
> wanted to. I'm amazed that we don't have browsing kiosks in b&m stores,
> where you can look for _any_ recording of anything, and place an order if it
> isn't in stock.
They do have that. It's called the internet.
Steve
Steve de Mena
> "William Sommerwerck" <grizzle...@comcast.net> appears to have caused
> the following letters to be typed in
> news:YKudnWzWkvrCSuvb...@comcast.com:
>
>>> What a strange turn has taken place in retailing in this country.
>>> There was a time when the marketing types were touting the browser-bin,
>>> impulse-buying concept.
>> Given a high-speed connection, this is doable over the Web, if someone
>> wanted to. I'm amazed that we don't have browsing kiosks in b&m stores,
>> where you can look for _any_ recording of anything, and place an order
>> if it isn't in stock.
>
> Well, some stores have actual Muze kiosks (Amoeba Music in Hollywood), and
> some have their own branded databases which may in some fashion derive from
> the Muze database (Borders?), so it's theoretically possible, given money.
>
> But, as I've said before, while I strongly prefer physically browsing
> recordings, I could accept an online experience ***IF*** it gave me the
> same options as physical browsing. This means being able to examine the
> front and back (and edges, where appropriate!) of the package in their
> entirety, at real size or larger, and a full listing of the entire contents
> and performer names. Most online vendors don't even come close to this.
You can get more information online than you can
in the store. When online you can access and
search anywhere on the internet, finding
innumerable details about the recordings you are
browsing, search for reviews, etc. No comparison.
Steve
Steve de Mena
Some people just can't accept change and prefer to
see the cup half empty.
Steve
Steve de Mena
> In article <YKudnWzWkvrCSuvb...@comcast.com>, William Sommerwerck <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote:
> It's actually fairly easy to browse at Berkshire Record Outlet. If you
> do a blank search, it returns all of the CDs in reverse order of their
> having been stocked (newest first).
Hmmm.....help me out here guys, but how could this
ever be done in a brick and mortar store, seeing
*all* of their newly added titles? If you were
lucky the store might have an end-cap display or
two with "new releases", but it was never complete.
I think if people spent the amount of time they
used to do driving to a store, finding parking,
and shopping, they could browse a heck of a lot
online. I typically look for new releases at MDT,
buywell, CD Japan, HMV Japan, Tower Japan, eBay
closing auctions. (Tip: When I see something I'd
like on eBay and it's expensive I pop over to
Amazon and often find it cheaper on an Amazon
marketplace). I also find browsing eBay jogs my
mind for certain performers or recordings and will
look for those at the other sites. Just like I
would pop around different bins in a brick and
mortar store.
Steve
Steve de Mena
You know, I have never bought a candle in my life.
I have seen those stores and wondered if I am
missing out on something. I guess people buy them
for the fragrance?
Steve
Steve de Mena
>> In article <1182192985....@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, GPGe...@aol.com says...
>> AMEN
>>
>> Hats off to Tower (Japan), who put the CDs inside of a cardboard inner
>> box
>> that protects the plastic cases from damage during transit.
>>
>> Sadly, the days of brick-and-mortar retailing may be numbered. If you
>> live in
>> a suburban location (or even in some metro areas), there is no longer
>> a serious retail outlet for classical CDs (Borders in my suburban NJ
>> town
>> can't even bother to stock the few classical CDs featured in its
>> monthly
>> ad in Gramophone - North American Edition).
>>
>> What a strange turn has taken place in retailing in this country.
>> There was a time when the marketing types were touting the
>> browser-bin, impulse-buying concept.
>>
>>
>>
> I think there's probably a market for a few classical CD stores. I
> believe if there were very few, maybe one per large geographical
> region, and it was HUGE in inventory, but low on frills and not in a
> high-rent location, a sort of classical CD big-box store, it could
> work. It'd be a destination for a lot of us, and even if fairly
> distant, we'd make a trip or two a year and load up. I'm guessing the
> economics might work, at this point in the game with the demise of
> Tower.
Like the lamented Tower Records Classical Annex in
Los Angeles that was largely a ghost town the last
couple of years before it closed? I have to laugh
when people suggest that some other store should
invest in classical inventory and pick up the
slack of Tower closing.
Steve
Steve
david...@aol.com
> Absurd. I have ordered an unbelievable amount of
> CDs online and rarely receive a cracked one.
I received two separate orders in the mail today, one with a cracked
jewel case, the other with a crushed box. To repeat myself, I take it
for granted that single CD's shipped through the mail will come with
cracked jewel cases, as they usually do.
> Of course, with the money you save shopping online
> you could easily buy a 100 pack of jewel cases and
> replace the broken ones and still come out ahead.
Whether or not this is true -- and I do indeed have jewel cases on
hand to replace broken ones -- it's an additional hidden cost of
buying online.
> I bet you miss dial telephones too.
I don't miss dialing, although I certainly didn't mind dialing and
don't consider touch tone dialing a giant step for mankind, but for
three quarters of a century a telephone was a solid piece of
indestructible machinery. A decent cell phone now is an expensive
item designed NOT to last so that you have to pay to replace it
periodically.
-david gable
Steve de Mena
Who are you ordering from? Amazon ships in large
boxes usually, with those air-pocket fillers and
the book plastic wrapped over a stiff cardboard
backing. I am sure all the people who drink
coffee and lounge around Borders for hours reading
books for free don't bend any of the pages and
make sure to leave the copies pristine.
Steve
Steve de Mena
tower changed ownership in the meantime..."
"Complicated" is an understatement. Their
situation was a poor example.
How about discussing amazon.com's return policy?
They sell a few CDs. It's certainly a lot easier
than driving back to a store and telling the clerk
you want a refund.
Steve
Steve de Mena
Ordered the Zubin Mehta 70th birthday tribute set
from Amazon Germany. The box arrived torn open
and empty. (Well, actually there was a 1/2 used
small can of deodorant in there..???). I emailed
them in the evening my time, in English, and 15
minutes later had a reply that a replacement copy
was on it's way, which I got the next week.
Caiman.com is the one you usally hear complaints
about. I have ordered a lot from them, and they
come through almost always.... but those
exceptions can try one's patience.
Steve
Steve de Mena
People often try to make their brick and mortar
experiences sound better than they usually were. I
got the Michel Beroff Debussy EMI France set from
Tower Records about 2 years ago and one CD was
defective. I had to drive in to return it and
they would notify me when another copy came in.
They called a couple of weeks later and I had to
drive in to pick it up. Total: 3 round trips. On
Amazon, you go online, find the order, click on
the return button, fill out some stuff and print
out a return shipping label.
Steve
Steve de Mena
This generalized statement is backed up by yet
another reference to Tower.com, the worst example
one could think of (besides their alter ego,
caiman.com).
Steve
david...@aol.com
> Some people just can't accept change and prefer to
> see the cup half empty.
It's not a question of an ability to accept change or a lack thereof,
and any glass that's half full is also half empty. Change is not
necessarily synonymous with improvement, as you must surely know.
Quite often it's a mixed blessing. It's easier for you to accept this
particular change because, as you've stated on this forum, you dislike
the social interaction involved in shopping in brick and mortar stores
and prefer the privacy and anonymity of shopping at home. Given your
preference, your embrace of this particular change is no evidence that
you're better able to accept change than anybody else.
Unsurprisingly, given this preference of yours, you don't seem to be
able to appreciate what has been lost to so many of us other collector
types. You would do well to let us complain in peace: complaining is
one of the oldest pleasures known to man.
-david gable
Steve de Mena
> Yes, and for example, the Keilberth "Walküre" and "Siegfried" on Testament
> that I bought last Friday were in pristine shape. It would be annoying
> indeed if I were to order the "Rheingold" and "Götterdämmerung" and find
> that one or the other had a box with a crimped corner.
A box with a crimped corner???
Oh my god. I would never wish that on even my
worst enemy.
Everyone is probably sick of me by now, and adding
me to their killfiles, but there are more
important things in life than a cracked jewel case
or a crimped corner of a CD box set.
Steve (cranky after a long day working)
Steve de Mena
> "wkasimer" <wkas...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:1182200591.1...@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jun 18, 2:44 pm, "david7ga...@aol.com" <david7ga...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I surprisingly often receive orders damaged in transit. If I order a
>>> single CD, I take it for granted that the jewel case will be cracked,
>>> and I'm seldom wrong.
>> I've been pretty lucky, or have chosen vendors well. It still happens
>> now and then, but not often. BRO, however, used to have a very, very
>> high breakage percentage, which seems to have improved over the last
>> couple of years (now the problem is that their packages are nearly
>> impossible to open).
>>
>> Today I received Lucchesini's recording of the
>>> complete Beethoven sonatas from J & R, and, while the CD's are fine,
>>> the box is damaged.
>> Unfortunately, this happens pretty often - usually just a corner
>> knocked in a bit, but sometimes it looks like the box was run over by
>> a truck. And of course, you can't replace these as you can a jewel
>> box.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>
> A copy I order through Amazon Marketplace of the new Colin Davis Falstaff
> arrived not only with the case cracked, but one of the CDs as well. This was
> obvious carrier mishandling, but the seller was decent about it and refunded
> my money when I emailed him a digital photograph of the damage.
That happened to a 2CD EMI Gemini set I got of
Stravinsky works. CD1 had a big chunk taken out
of it. I got a refund, and in reality I had
ordered it specifically for some shorter works on
CD2, so I came out ahead.
> After
> playing CD1 once, I didn't like the performance enough to find another copy.
>
> (When another Amazon Marketplace seller sold me a copy of the Brueggen Haydn
> Paris symphonies that wouldn't play one track, he refused to refund my
> money
HE refused? It's Amazon you are doing business
with. They'll get you a refund.
Steve
Steve de Mena
>> I just tried to place an order and found that I have to use
>> "PayPal". I think I ran into that hassle before (BRO, perhaps?)
>> and finally just e-mailed my cart and cc info.
>
> PayPal is easy to use -- though it requires having a credit card for
> "backup", even if you have cash in your PayPal account. PayPal is a great
> advantage when trying to sell stuff overseas.
Speaking of PayPal and eBay (same company) they
now offer a secure ID token for only $5. I haven't
heard a lot about this so thought I would mention
it. I have always been a little nervous that
PayPal pulls money from my bank account and this
security token makes it darn near impossible for
someone to break in to my eBay or PayPal accounts.
https://www.paypal.com/securitykey
Steve
david...@aol.com
> Who are you ordering from?
The crushed box set came from J & R, the single CD with cracked jewel
case from MDT Mail Order. But I order from numerous sources. (J & R
offered to reduce the price of my purchase if I'd accept the crushed
box: I declined. To save money on shipping, they're having me return
only the crushed box, which will create further problems. I consider
it a virtual impossibility that some shipper at J & R is going to
remove the shrink wrap so carefully from another copy of the set and
mail it to me so securely that I end up with a pristine box. It just
isn't going to happen.)
> I am sure all the people who drink
> coffee and lounge around Borders for hours reading
> books for free don't bend any of the pages and
> make sure to leave the copies pristine.
Yes, and if I can't find a pristine copy of a book, I'm not obliged to
pay for one that isn't.
One category of book that is disastrously served by the internet is
art books: there is absolutely no way to judge the quality of the
reproductions in art books without seeing the book yourself. As for
your beloved Amazon, they routinely ship books with slightly imperfect
covers or dust jackets, jackets that are scratched or scuffed.
-david gable
david...@aol.com
> People often try to make their brick and mortar
> experiences sound better than they usually were
How do you know????? Are you clairvoyant? You assume that our
experiences were terrible because you don't share an enthusiasm for
the same kind of experience. My experiences with brick and mortar
stores were a rollicking good time over a period of many years: in
college and grad school, going to a large record store with a couple
of zany companions and browsing for an hour or two was a very good
time. Going alone and browsing for an hour or two was a very good
time of another kind. I never had the least problem finding things I
wanted to buy. Nor am I better informed about what is available today
than I was then: there have always been sources of information.
The idea of browsing through a complete listing of everything in stock
at Berkshire label by label does not strike me as a good time: it
strikes me as a hideous chore, and I wouldn't dream of doing it.
-david gable
david...@aol.com
it took him this to obtain a particular CD:
> Total: 3 round trips.
Two questions: how often did you have to make 3 round trips to get
one CD? What is so horrible about making a trip to a record store?
-david gable
david...@aol.com
> I have always been a little nervous that
> PayPal pulls money from my bank account and this
> security token makes it darn near impossible for
> someone to break in to my eBay or PayPal accounts.
>
> https://www.paypal.com/securitykey
No way in hell am I giving Paypal access to my bank account. When I
pay via Paypal it's with a credit card. I did have a bad experience a
few weeks ago when I discovered that a $500 gift certificate purchased
from Amazon had been charged to my debit card: my bank immediately
canceled my card and credited the money back to my account, and Amazon
canceled my account and returned the money to my bank: in other
words, Amazon had to eat the loss (unless, as is unlikely, the
criminal was caught).
-david gable
Steve de Mena
> On Jun 19, 4:20 am, Steve de Mena <ste...@stevedemena.com> wrote:
>
>> Who are you ordering from?
>
> The crushed box set came from J & R, the single CD with cracked jewel
> case from MDT Mail Order. But I order from numerous sources. (J & R
> offered to reduce the price of my purchase if I'd accept the crushed
> box: I declined. To save money on shipping, they're having me return
> only the crushed box, which will create further problems. I consider
> it a virtual impossibility that some shipper at J & R is going to
> remove the shrink wrap so carefully from another copy of the set and
> mail it to me so securely that I end up with a pristine box. It just
> isn't going to happen.)
>
>> I am sure all the people who drink
>> coffee and lounge around Borders for hours reading
>> books for free don't bend any of the pages and
>> make sure to leave the copies pristine.
>
> Yes, and if I can't find a pristine copy of a book, I'm not obliged to
> pay for one that isn't.
>
> One category of book that is disastrously served by the internet is
> art books: there is absolutely no way to judge the quality of the
> reproductions in art books without seeing the book yourself.
True. When I browsed the LACMA book store after
visiting a David Hockney exhibit I looked through
the exhibit catalogs and thought they were a
little pricey (even at the "member" price). So I
got it at Amazon for 37% off and no tax or shipping.
> As for
> your beloved Amazon, they routinely ship books with slightly imperfect
> covers or dust jackets, jackets that are scratched or scuffed.
Maybe I am not as picky as you and accept "slight
imperfect" copies, especially as I know once I
read through a book and use it is no longer pristine.
Steve
Steve de Mena
I used to love going to Tower, but as the prices
went up, and the sales became fewer and far
between, I moved more online shopping. I think
3 trips within a few weeks is too much as little
new inventory would have come in during that
period. That is another thing I started to notice
at Tower. Usually every week there were plenty of
new releases to browse through, but then it seemed
like it was more of a monthly occurrence. The
last couple of years I would go there once a month.
Steve
Steve de Mena
I didn't think you could open a PayPal account
without it having access to a bank account? If I
could I would edit my account and remove that
feature, as I'd rather have it go to a credit
card, for the buyer protection features, and also
airline miles!
Steve
Richard Schultz
: A decent cell phone now is an expensive item designed NOT to last so
: that you have to pay to replace it periodically.
Well, you could always adopt my solution -- i.e., not own a cell phone.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell bad."
Richard Loeb
"Steve de Mena" <ste...@stevedemena.com> wrote in message
news:4677a363$0$30647$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
I think I can appreciate both points of view - some of my very fondest
memories when I was growing was going to Sam Goodys big store in
Philadelphia and browsing/buying LPs - there was an excitement about
checking out the inventory and talking to the often knowledgeble help about
the various performances. I sometimes wish I could recapture that feeling
but its gone now - I have bought too much and learned too much to go back to
that wonderful time. But as the Internet grew and I started shopping more I
did see myself buying less and less at Tower. I wouild go in and come out
with nothing - part of the problem was the pricing and part of the problem
was that the aesthetics of buying a beautifully produced LP could not be
replaced by perusing little silver discs - it just wasn't the same. So witht
a wistful and warm glance back to past - my shopping is now via the
Internet. Richard
Larry Rinkel
> HE refused? It's Amazon you are doing business with. They'll get you a
> refund.
>
The incident took place about three years ago, and had I known this at the
time, I would have pursued a complaint through Amazon. (The problem with the
Falstaff CDs occurred more recently, and yes, the seller told me he couldn't
refund my money directly, but I would have to work it out with Amazon.)
Andrej Kluge
Steve de Mena wrote:
> People often try to make their brick and mortar
> experiences sound better than they usually were. I
> got the Michel Beroff Debussy EMI France set from
> Tower Records about 2 years ago and one CD was
> defective.
It gets more complicated (whether online or in a store) when a CD set is
erroneously assembled by the manufacturer. I once ordered a 7 CD set that
contained #5 double, but no #6. I wrote the marketplace seller about it, he
checked his stock and told me all of his sets had the same deficiancy. I
don't have the missing number 5 until today.
Ciao
A.
PS: is was the Tal&Groethuysen Schubert set
William Sommerwerck
> trained to want actual physical products, and as the rest of us
> who have been trained in that fashion grow older and crabbier,
> we find that actually getting out and shopping in a real store
> becomes less and less attractive, and in some cases, not even
> feasible.
I don't think it's merely a matter of "training", or even familiarity. After
all, we listen to music that is supposedly of lasting value (ditto for jazz
listeners), so we would quite naturally want it in a "permanent" form -- not
an ephemeral computer file.
My problem with browsing stores is that the retail price is almost always
higher than mail-order. I generally buy recordings only when Silver Platters
has a coupon sale (which they run 4 or 5 times a year), and then it's mostly
SACDs to build up that part of my collection.
William Sommerwerck
> CDs online and rarely receive a cracked one.
I recently bought about 200 CDs from BMG and none was cracked (box or disk).
Of course, they were packed 30 or so to a long cardboard box, with those
boxes within a heavy shipping box.
> Of course, with the money you save shopping online
> you could easily buy a 100 pack of jewel cases and
> replace the broken ones and still come out ahead.
Way ahead. I have tons of jewel cases I got cheap or for free when Office
Despot had sales.
PS: Why can't you find a "double" CD box with four crowns? I could see the
logic of only three, as there are many three-disk sets that use the
front-right space for the booklet. But most have no more than two. Heck, you
could always cut off the ones you don't need or want.
William Sommerwerck
> don't consider touch tone dialing a giant step for mankind, but for
> three quarters of a century a telephone was a solid piece of
> indestructible machinery. A decent cell phone now is an expensive
> item designed NOT to last so that you have to pay to replace it
> periodically.
We're getting off-track here, but I've never had a "cheap"
non-Western-Electric telephone fail on me.
In fact, the only telephone that ever failed was... an expensive AT&T
Genesis modular-system phone. (A magnificent product; I haven't seen
anything like it since.) Its failure wouldn't have been a problem had AT&T
provided parts and a service manual. ("That product is obsolete. But we
can't sell you a service manual because it contains proprietary
information.") This is one of the reasons I do not do business with AT&T or
its affiliates. They don't care.
Most of my phones are GEs, which I believe are made by Matsushita. Really
handsome industrial design, comfortable handsets, and excellent sound. I
also have a PhoneMate answering machine next to my computer. It, too, has a
good telephone and speakerphone, and it's been running fine for over 20
years.
William Sommerwerck
> without receiving a copy with the cover at least slightly scuffed.
> There's nothing like leaving a store with a pristine copy of a book
> or record, at least not online.
I buy a lot of books, and of the hundreds and hundreds I've bought over the
years, I can think of only one or two that were scuffed or damaged in any
way.
I should say that I've gotten CDs from Arkiv with cracked jewel boxes. They
stuff the disks in very small boxes.
William Sommerwerck
from a Brazilian dealer. It arrived -- do Brasil -- 8 days after I placed
the order.
William Sommerwerck
> memories when I was growing was going to Sam Goodys big store in
> Philadelphia and browsing/buying LPs - there was an excitement about
> checking out the inventory and talking to the often knowledgeble help
about
> the various performances.
When I worked in New Jersey in the summer of 1970, I looked forward to the
weekends when I could go into New York and buy records at Sam Goody's. I
built up my collection that way. I well-remember the sale prices -- 3
Columbias for $8, 3 RCAs for $10. The cashier would nick the cellophane with
a razor blade and mark the sale price on the sleeve, so you couldn't return
the disk for more than you paid
William Sommerwerck
> offer a secure ID token for only $5. I haven't heard a lot
> about this so thought I would mention it. I have always
> been a little nervous that PayPal pulls money from my
> bank account and this security token makes it darn near
> impossible for someone to break in to my eBay or PayPal
> accounts.
> https://www.paypal.com/securitykey
Didn't know about that. Thanks for the info. It's a good deal if the $5 is a
lifetime fee.
William Sommerwerck
> When I pay via PayPal it's with a credit card. I did have a bad
> experience a few weeks ago when I discovered that a $500 gift
> certificate purchased from Amazon had been charged to my debit
> card: my bank immediately canceled my card and credited the
> money back to my account, and Amazon canceled my account
> and returned the money to my bank: in other words, Amazon had
> to eat the loss (unless, as is unlikely, the criminal was caught).
One of the advantages of giving PayPal access to your bank account is that
they can directly deposit monies received, rather than cutting you a check.
The only problem I've had with direct transfer occurred a few weeks ago when
Nautilus "double-dipped" my account for a purchase. I discovered it a few
days later, and it was quickly corrected.
Debit cards are dangerous because retailers often fail to check the
signature.
William Sommerwerck
> it having access to a bank account? If I could I would
> edit my account and remove that feature, as I'd rather
> have it go to a credit card, for the buyer protection
> features, and also airline miles!
I don't think a bank account is required. But it makes some things a lot
simpler.
Jim
airline miles!
>
> I don't think a bank account is required. But it makes some things a lot
> simpler.
You can *start* with PayPal without a bank account, but eventually
they force you to become "verified," which means connecting your
PayPal account to a bank account. That doesn't stop you from charging
all purchases against a credit card, though--you just have to be
careful not to accept the default.
Norman M. Schwartz
<david...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1182244285.2...@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
I have (fee-free) checking account, always having less than $100 in it, used
solely for PayPal.
> -david gable
>
Vinski
> there are more important things in life than a cracked jewel case
> or a crimped corner of a CD box set.
Ok. Outside this thread.
Vinski
Norman M. Schwartz
>
> Most of my phones are GEs, which I believe are made by Matsushita. Really
> handsome industrial design, comfortable handsets, and excellent sound. I
> also have a PhoneMate answering machine next to my computer.
How about those mini-tape cassettes? I assume they are still being made and
easily found in stores :-)))
It, too, has a
> good telephone and speakerphone, and it's been running fine for over 20
> years.
>
Mine must have crapped out 15 years ago.
>
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in
news:46778e4b$0$24772$4c36...@roadrunner.com:
> Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>> "William Sommerwerck" <grizzle...@comcast.net> appears to have
>> caused the following letters to be typed in
>> news:YKudnWzWkvrCSuvb...@comcast.com:
>>
>>>> What a strange turn has taken place in retailing in this country.
>>>> There was a time when the marketing types were touting the browser-bin,
>>>> impulse-buying concept.
>>> Given a high-speed connection, this is doable over the Web, if someone
>>> wanted to. I'm amazed that we don't have browsing kiosks in b&m stores,
>>> where you can look for _any_ recording of anything, and place an order if
>>> it isn't in stock.
>>
>> Well, some stores have actual Muze kiosks (Amoeba Music in Hollywood),
>> and some have their own branded databases which may in some fashion
>> derive from the Muze database (Borders?), so it's theoretically
>> possible, given money.
>>
>> But, as I've said before, while I strongly prefer physically browsing
>> recordings, I could accept an online experience ***IF*** it gave me the
>> same options as physical browsing. This means being able to examine
>> the front and back (and edges, where appropriate!) of the package in
>> their entirety, at real size or larger, and a full listing of the
>> entire contents and performer names. Most online vendors don't even
>> come close to this.
>
> You can get more information online than you can in the store. When online
> you can access and search anywhere on the internet, finding innumerable
> details about the recordings you are browsing, search for reviews, etc. No
> comparison.
But there are some vendors who won't even let me find out who the !@#$%^&ing
soloists are in Beethoven's !@#$%^&ing 9th symphony.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Harrington/Coy is a gay wrestler who won't come out of the closet
Matthew B. Tepper
> wkasimer wrote:
>> On Jun 18, 3:32 pm, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> But, as I've said before, while I strongly prefer physically browsing
>>> recordings, I could accept an online experience ***IF*** it gave me
>>> the same options as physical browsing. This means being able to
>>> examine the front and back (and edges, where appropriate!) of the
>>> package in their entirety, at real size or larger, and a full listing
>>> of the entire contents and performer names. Most online vendors don't
>>> even come close to this.
>>
>> It must be said, though, that sometimes the CD itself lacks a full
>> listing of contents and performers - in this case, online vendors
>> sometimes have MORE information than you can glean at a bricks 'n'
>> mortar establishment.
>
> Some people just can't accept change and prefer to see the cup half empty.
Not quite; it's a differently-shaped cup, into which only some of the
original contents have been poured.
Matthew B. Tepper
[to Steve de Mena]
> It's easier for you to accept this particular change because, as you've
> stated on this forum, you dislike the social interaction involved in
> shopping in brick and mortar stores and prefer the privacy and anonymity of
> shopping at home. Given your preference, your embrace of this particular
> change is no evidence that you're better able to accept change than anybody
> else.
And then there are some of us who strongly enjoy the social interaction of
physical shopping, of driving to our favorite stores (or, a feeling I don't
think I'll ever have again here in Los Angeles, of the pleasure of trying out
a new one), the rush of finding an unanticipated new release in the bin.
I know he said it in order to denigrate recordings, but what Celibidache said
applies here, in a way -- it's the difference between looking at a pretty
girl who is in your presence, and looking at a photo of a pretty girl.
Matthew B. Tepper
the following letters to be typed in
> I ought to say something positive about my recent purchase of "Song of
> Love" from a Brazilian dealer. It arrived -- do Brasil -- 8 days after I
> placed the order.
Well, there you're at the mercy of the respective postal services. Recently
I had a panama hat sent to me from Ecuador, where they are made. It arrived
in eight days. (It was supposed to be XL, but was too small for my head, so
I gave it to a bald friend, who is putting it to good use in this weather.)
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in
> Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>
>> Yes, and for example, the Keilberth "Walküre" and "Siegfried" on Testament
>> that I bought last Friday were in pristine shape. It would be annoying
>> indeed if I were to order the "Rheingold" and "Götterdämmerung" and find
>> that one or the other had a box with a crimped corner.
>
> A box with a crimped corner???
>
> Oh my god. I would never wish that on even my worst enemy.
>
> Everyone is probably sick of me by now, and adding me to their killfiles,
> but there are more important things in life than a cracked jewel case or a
> crimped corner of a CD box set.
>
> Steve (cranky after a long day working)
I can't speak for anybody else, but I had already assumed that you were just
in a cranky mood. Rest up, listen to some Schubert or Dvorak, and come back
when you're feeling refreshed. A killfile is for incorrigible generators of
insults, not for otherwise worthwhile contributors currently in a bad mood.
(For "opera box with a crimped corner" substitute "mystery novel with the
last page ripped out" and you'll get a better idea of what I mean.)
William Sommerwerck
> applies here, in a way -- it's the difference between looking at a pretty
> girl who is in your presence, and looking at a photo of a pretty girl.
Too many recordings aren't even as good as a photo -- they're more like
inflatable vinyl dolls.
(I'm talking about the miserable sound quality of most recordings.)
William Sommerwerck
>> Really handsome industrial design, comfortable handsets, and excellent
>> sound. I also have a PhoneMate answering machine next to my computer.
> How about those mini-tape cassettes? I assume they are still being made
and
> easily found in stores :-)))
The PhoneMate uses standard cassettes for recording. The announcement tape
is a short continuous loop, and might still be available.
wkasimer
> Two questions: how often did you have to make 3 round trips to get
> one CD? What is so horrible about making a trip to a record store?
Time spent in the car is time not spent listening (or listening
without proper attention).
Bill
Richard Schultz
: I can't speak for anybody else, but I had already assumed that you were just
: in a cranky mood. Rest up, listen to some Schubert or Dvorak, and come back
: when you're feeling refreshed.
If he's going to listen to Schubert, it had better not be the C major
quintet -- that might send him over the edge. (The slow movement is #2 on
my list of "pieces best not listened to if you're contemplating suicide --
unless you're absolutely sure that that's what you want to do.")
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
". . . Mengelberg was not the kind of artist who would let us walk home
after a concert with the feeling of having experienced an extraordinary
musical event."
-- Max Rudolf, _The Grammar of Conducting_
Andrej Kluge
> If he's going to listen to Schubert, it had better not be the C major
> quintet -- that might send him over the edge. (The slow movement is
> #2 on my list of "pieces best not listened to if you're contemplating
> suicide -- unless you're absolutely sure that that's what you want to
> do.")
Which is #1?
Ciao
A.
pgaron
> Ordered the Zubin Mehta 70th birthday tribute set
> from Amazon Germany. The box arrived torn open
> and empty. (Well, actually there was a 1/2 used
> small can of deodorant in there..???).
I'm sure there is a good joke waiting to be made here, but I can't
think of it OTTOMH.
pgaron
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:5dqbv8F...@mid.individual.net:
"Gloomy Sunday"?
Bob Lombard
"Andrej Kluge" <kl...@wizzy.de> wrote in message
news:5dqbv8F...@mid.individual.net...
The finale of Tchaikovsky's 6th is probably dangerous if you are convinced
that your life is f***ked. There is a certain transfer of resolve there, but
resolve to do what?
bl
david...@aol.com
> I didn't think you could open a PayPal account
> without it having access to a bank account?
I have the lowest status Paypal account: "Unverified." Nevertheless,
I've had it for years, and I've used it to make eBay purchases via
credit card for years.
-david gable
aleksios
<david...@aol.com> said:
> [...] You would do well to let us complain in peace:
> complaining is one of the oldest pleasures known to man.
Hear, hear.
Btw, anyone who thinks that there's anything new in rmcr should check
out the old Usenet, cca 70AD:
<http://preview.tinyurl.com/8cfrk>
--Alex (the volcanic philistine)
aleksios
<grizzle...@comcast.net> said:
> [...] we listen to music that is supposedly of lasting value
> [...] so we would quite naturally want it in a "permanent" form
> -- not an ephemeral computer file.
Actually, a computer file may be more "permanent" than a "permanent"
CD. As I mentioned earlier, my 10-year-old Poppea CD went the way of
all flesh -- had I ripped it a few years ago, in all probability I'd
still have the computer file. It may very well be that vinyl LPs were
more "permanent" than audio CDs.
Perhaps nothing is "permanent" in the digital age. Or, alternatively,
we should think of permanency as something akin to Prigogine's
dissipative structures.
--Alex (the thermodynamic philistine)
Richard Schultz
: "Andrej Kluge" <kl...@wizzy.de> appears to have caused the following
:> Richard Schultz wrote:
:>> If he's going to listen to Schubert, it had better not be the C major
:>> quintet -- that might send him over the edge. (The slow movement is #2
:>> on my list of "pieces best not listened to if you're contemplating
:>> suicide -- unless you're absolutely sure that that's what you want to
:>> do.")
:> Which is #1?
Pettersson's 7th symphony.
: "Gloomy Sunday"?
That's #3.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"an optimist is a guy/ that has never had/ much experience"
J.Martin
> People often try to make their brick and mortar
> experiences sound better than they usually were. I got the Michel Beroff Debussy EMI France set from
> Tower Records about 2 years ago and one CD was
> defective. I had to drive in to return it and
> they would notify me when another copy came in.
> They called a couple of weeks later and I had to
> drive in to pick it up. Total: 3 round trips.
Fair enough. I can certainly recall some frustrating experiences with
brick and mortar stores as well. And online shopping is certainly
preferable if you'd rather not leave the house.
On
> Amazon, you go online, find the order, click on
> the return button, fill out some stuff and print
> out a return shipping label.
>
Couldn't be more convenient... as long as you don't mind waiting a
week or two for your initial order to come, then waiting for a couple
weeks for the post office to return the defective CD to amazon, and
then waiting a couple more weeks for the replacement to arrive. And
as long as the "replacement" copy doesn't have the same defect. And
nothing gets lost in shipment. Compared with all of the hassle of
actually visiting a brick and mortar shop, that's nothing, eh?
I think we're all aware of the many reasons brick and mortar music
stores are dead and dying. Clearly, the market has spoken in favor of
online retail, and we can all look forward to a world in which we no
longer have to leave our homes to shop. (And not just for CDs--the
trend toward online retail will eventually claim the book stores and
who knows what else). It's good that most people seem to be thrilled
about this. I'm not.
J.
Andrej Kluge
Bob Lombard schrieb:
>> Richard Schultz wrote:
>>> If he's going to listen to Schubert, it had better not be the C
>>> major quintet -- that might send him over the edge. (The slow
>>> movement is #2 on my list of "pieces best not listened to if you're
>>> contemplating suicide -- unless you're absolutely sure that that's
>>> what you want to do.")
>
> The finale of Tchaikovsky's 6th is probably dangerous if you are
> convinced that your life is f***ked. There is a certain transfer of
> resolve there, but resolve to do what?
I once found the slow movements of Zelenka's trio sonatas most disturbing...
I guess when you're in a real depressive state, most slow minor key pieces
will "do" to enhance that mental state.
Ciao
A.
William Sommerwerck
> are convinced that your life is f***ked. There is a certain
> transfer of resolve there, but resolve to do what?
Not to drink unboiled water?
William Sommerwerck
> "permanent" CD. As I mentioned earlier, my 10-year-old
> Poppea CD went the way of all flesh -- had I ripped it a few
> years ago, in all probability I'd still have the computer file.
> It may very well be that vinyl LPs were more "permanent"
> than audio CDs.
Looks like Poppea wasn't properly "coronated", eh?
A pressed CD _should_ be recoverable -- provided you can find somebody to
strip and re-aluminize it. The polycarbonate CDs are made from should --
literally -- outlast the pyramids.
Polyvinyl chloride (or is it acetate?) is pretty stable, too. The main
non-playing degradation occurs from the gradual loss of the plasticizers
that soften the plastic. After about a quarter century, you can slam an LP
against the side of a table and shatter it. (I've done it.) Other than that,
LPs should have a pretty long shelf life.
Allen
have an ample supply of uppers.
Allen
James Kahn
>I think there's probably a market for a few classical CD stores. I
>believe if there were very few, maybe one per large geographical
>region, and it was HUGE in inventory, but low on frills and not in a
>high-rent location, a sort of classical CD big-box store, it could
>work. It'd be a destination for a lot of us, and even if fairly
>distant, we'd make a trip or two a year and load up. I'm guessing the
>economics might work, at this point in the game with the demise of
>Tower.
I don't think so. The cost of carrying that huge inventory (relative to
the amount of actual sales) would make it prohibitively expensive. The
advantage that internet sellers have is that the inventory can be
centralized in one place for the entire world market. Even better,
really, because as we know, they don't even have to literally have
it in stock, they just need to know where they can get it. Maybe
it would work in some place like Tokyo where classical buyers are
a larger share of the population, but even there, it would be so
hard to get to for most people that it probably wouldn't make it.
I think the internet is all that will remain for serious classical
buyers, and the best hope is that it will get better--better
packaging, better service, better browsing capabilities. I suspect
that will happen if there's a demand for it. Personally, I find
the broken jewel cases a minor annoyance compared to the frustrations
of trying to find anything at b&m stores.
--
Jim
New York, NY
(Please remove "nospam." to get my e-mail address)
http://www.panix.com/~kahn
James Kahn
>Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>> Yes, and for example, the Keilberth "Walküre" and "Siegfried" on Testament
>> that I bought last Friday were in pristine shape. It would be annoying
>> indeed if I were to order the "Rheingold" and "Götterdämmerung" and find
>> that one or the other had a box with a crimped corner.
>A box with a crimped corner???
>Oh my god. I would never wish that on even my
>worst enemy.
>Everyone is probably sick of me by now, and adding
>me to their killfiles, but there are more
>important things in life than a cracked jewel case
>or a crimped corner of a CD box set.
Yes, like candles, for example. [Sorry, you have to have
kept up with the whole thread to get this one.]
Seriously, I agree with you. It's not that they're not annoying,
but they are very minor annoyances compared to the inconvenience
and frustrations of b&m CD shopping.
david...@aol.com
> Debit cards are dangerous because retailers often fail to check the
> signature.
In my case, the gift certificate at Amazon had been charged to a debit
card that had never left my possession.
-david gable
aleksios
<grizzle...@comcast.net> said:
> Looks like Poppea wasn't properly "coronated", eh?
Oh, she was, but they forced her to abdicate. It was a dastardly plot,
engineered by the hate-Gardiner brigade. (You know who you are!...)
> A pressed CD _should_ be recoverable -- provided you can find
> somebody to strip and re-aluminize it. [...]
Come again?
--Alex (the curious philistine)
david...@aol.com
> You can *start* with PayPal without a bank account, but eventually
> they force you to become "verified," which means connecting your
> PayPal account to a bank account.
This process can take many years, though, and when you've reached the
limit at which you're obliged to become "verified," you can close your
account and start over with a new "unverified" account. In short, it
is possible to avoid giving Paypal any access to your Bank Account.
-david gable
david...@aol.com
> I don't think a bank account is required. But it makes some things a lot
> simpler.
Presumably for a seller. If you only use Paypal as a buyer, I don't
think attaching your bank account necessarily makes anything simpler.
-david gable
david...@aol.com
> I buy a lot of books, and of the hundreds and hundreds I've bought over the
> years, I can think of only one or two that were scuffed or damaged in any
> way.
I doubt that I've received more than a few books from Amazon that have
had jackets in absolutely pristine condition: I don't mean that the
jackets have been seriously damaged or damaged enough to return, but
they're always very slightly scratched or scuffed. They're rarely
absolutely pristine.
-david gable
david...@aol.com
wrote:
> Most of my phones are GEs, which I believe are made by Matsushita. Really
> handsome industrial design, comfortable handsets, and excellent sound. I
> also have a PhoneMate answering machine next to my computer. It, too, has a
> good telephone and speakerphone, and it's been running fine for over 20
> years.
The Magnavox cell phones manufactured for Cingular (now AT & T) do
fail in a couple of years, and the sellers are well aware of this
short life span. All of that may change if I switch from Cingular/AT
& T to Working Assets, which I am seriously considering.
-david gable
William Sommerwerck
>> can find somebody to strip and re-aluminize it. [...]
> Come again?
A pressed CD stores the information "mechanically" -- that is, by a physical
impression of the surface. The plastic itself is virtually "permanent" (ie,
it will take aeons for the polymer chains to "unglue"). So the only way to
render a CD unplayable is to damage the aluminization or physically rip the
surface.
If the disk spontaneously failed of its own accord, it was probably due to
aluminization failure (qv, bronzing, or some such similar situation). See
above.
William Sommerwerck
>> some things a lot simpler.
> Presumably for a seller. If you only use Paypal as a buyer, I don't
> think attaching your bank account necessarily makes anything simpler.
Agreed. I sell often enough (mostly on eBay) that I appreciate the benefits
(if not the cost, which is 2.8%).
david...@aol.com
> I used to love going to Tower, but as the prices
> went up, and the sales became fewer and far
> between, I moved more [to] online shopping.
The same goes for me. But the comparison is not between the brick and
mortar store in its decline but between the brick and mortar store in
its heyday and today. I'm not denying the advantages of the
internet. I'm asserting the advantages of the brick and mortar store
in its heyday.
-david gable
david...@aol.com
> I think the internet is all that will remain for serious classical
> buyers,
That's what we all think. Only an idiot could think otherwise.
> and the best hope is that it will get better--better
> packaging, better service, better browsing capabilities. I suspect
> that will happen if there's a demand for it. Personally, I find
> the broken jewel cases a minor annoyance compared to the frustrations
> of trying to find anything at b&m stores.
That's what we all find. But we're not debating the relative merits
of internet shopping today and b&m store shopping today: we're
comparing shopping at b&m stores in their heyday and shopping on the
internet in its heyday.
-david gable
Matthew B. Tepper
the following letters to be typed in
>> He said it in order to denigrate recordings, but what Celibidache said
>> applies here, in a way -- it's the difference between looking at a
>> pretty girl who is in your presence, and looking at a photo of a pretty
>> girl.
>
> Too many recordings aren't even as good as a photo -- they're more like
> inflatable vinyl dolls.
Please, leave the trolls out of it.
> (I'm talking about the miserable sound quality of most recordings.)
(And I'm talking about the dearth of social skills among the trolls.)
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:f58rqj$icl$1...@news.iucc.ac.il:
> In article <Xns99544E9B47D...@207.217.125.201>, Matthew B.
> Tepper <oy?@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>: I can't speak for anybody else, but I had already assumed that you were
>: just in a cranky mood. Rest up, listen to some Schubert or Dvorak, and
>: come back when you're feeling refreshed.
>
> If he's going to listen to Schubert, it had better not be the C major
> quintet -- that might send him over the edge. (The slow movement is #2
> on my list of "pieces best not listened to if you're contemplating
> suicide -- unless you're absolutely sure that that's what you want to
> do.")
Well, there *is* some happy Schubert, like the scherzo of the "Great" C
Major, and ... and ... Well, then, some Dvorak that's happy without being
bittersweet, such as, er, well....
Hey, Steve, just put on some Haydn, willya?