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Olli Mustonen -- worst Chopin on record!

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Dan Koren

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Oct 14, 2021, 6:40:25 AM10/14/21
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgjqbTVC0UQ&t=1830s

This man is a deranged
brainfucked imbecile!
And a butcher!

dk

HT

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Oct 14, 2021, 9:39:56 AM10/14/21
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Op donderdag 14 oktober 2021 om 12:40:25 UTC+2 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
<g> Butcher is perhaps too much, but it sounds pretty awful.

Henk






Herman

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Oct 14, 2021, 9:52:51 AM10/14/21
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On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 12:40:25 PM UTC+2, dan....@gmail.com wrote:

>
> This man is a deranged
> brainfucked imbecile!
> And a butcher!
>
> dk

More realistically, he's a renowned pianist who plays Chopin in a way that doesn't immediately appeal to you - some random guy on the internet.

mswd...@gmail.com

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Oct 14, 2021, 12:05:19 PM10/14/21
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If you measure everything by reputation, this is an adequate summary. If you don't, then this leaves out a lot, including the possibility that Dan is - however harsh - correct.

Herman

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Oct 14, 2021, 12:16:34 PM10/14/21
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Internet-correct, sure, where people who with no skills, insight or art decide within a minute whether an established artist who's been thinking about these matters for years is "brainfucked imbecile" - the teenage language may give you an idea.

Johannes Roehl

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Oct 14, 2021, 1:09:10 PM10/14/21
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Am I mistaken or did you like some of the early Mustonen discs from the 1990s like Mussorgsky Pictures etc.?

Herman

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Oct 14, 2021, 1:24:49 PM10/14/21
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The whole point of live performance is you experience something you had not heard that way before. If you want to hear it "your way", don't listen to live music.

Obviosuly there is a reason the Competition people asked Mustonen to come and play Chopin in a setting where it's all Chopin all day and night.

AB

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Oct 14, 2021, 1:42:49 PM10/14/21
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right Herman...... he is a genius-eccentric (even worse than Gould)!
AB

AB

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Oct 14, 2021, 1:44:41 PM10/14/21
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Again, right.

AB

AB

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Oct 14, 2021, 1:47:42 PM10/14/21
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I have some Beethoven and Shostakovich Cds. Excellent..... must admit, heard him live in NYC, was a bit disappointed for various reasons.

AB

mswd...@gmail.com

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Oct 14, 2021, 7:32:08 PM10/14/21
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On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 11:16:34 AM UTC-5, Herman wrote:
> Internet-correct, sure, where people who with no skills, insight or art decide within a minute whether an established artist who's been thinking about these matters for years is "brainfucked imbecile" - the teenage language may give you an idea.

Even a person who speaks in a vulgar manner can be right. And since you have decided Dan has "no skills, insight or art", you clearly have your own operating prejudice here.

mswd...@gmail.com

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Oct 14, 2021, 7:41:04 PM10/14/21
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On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 12:24:49 PM UTC-5, Herman wrote:
> The whole point of live performance is you experience something you had not heard that way before. If you want to hear it "your way", don't listen to live music.

I don't buy this, Some things work, some don't. Novelty has no inherent musical value. If I say that a performance was a disaster, it doesn't necessarily mean that I had to have it the way I expected it (although it could). It could simply mean that this is the way I experienced it. And to have such a strong reaction after being very familiar with the music and how it can speak means that the judgment is unavoidably real and perhaps worth sharing.

> Obviosuly there is a reason the Competition people asked Mustonen to come and play Chopin in a setting where it's all Chopin all day and night.

If they knew precisely what he would do in performance there would be no reason for him to be there. Their pre-concert judgment on his potential as a performer does not indicate one way or the other whether he will deliver insight or garbage, or even whether most people will feel the same way about the performance. If I say a performance was crap, no external fact is going to radically remake what my brain heard or automatically diminish me as a person because my reaction doesn't conform to expectations. We all have the freedom to hear music many different ways, and I accept that Dan's reaction is an appropriate report on what he heard. His opinion is completely legit as far as this kind of appraisal goes, and does not prevent me from having my own reaction, or you yours.

MiNe109

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Oct 14, 2021, 7:44:39 PM10/14/21
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It was odd to see him rise off the bench in the Mussorgsky during a
recital back in the 90s.

He might benefit from a more distant recorded perspective.

mswd...@gmail.com

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Oct 14, 2021, 7:45:02 PM10/14/21
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On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 11:16:34 AM UTC-5, Herman wrote:
> Internet-correct, sure, where people who with no skills, insight or art decide within a minute whether an established artist who's been thinking about these matters for years is "brainfucked imbecile" - the teenage language may give you an idea.

I also want to add that the idea that we need to constrain our reactions because "well, experts made a choice" or "he is a renowned performer" or "he knows better than I" or "I am not worthy to judge" is a betrayal on the potential of art, period. Get over yourself and get back to listening- you might find you can have a similar reaction.

Herman

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Oct 15, 2021, 3:27:33 AM10/15/21
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This, too, is internet-thinking, arguing in black-or-white. I'm not saying an audience should like everything it's offered. This however was about an internet guy who not only rejects a performance in about the first minute of the recital, talking about 'brain-fucked imbecile', but does so on publicly - in other words, he pictures his words like a competing performance and wants to get the audience on his side. Let's be rude and stupid if we don't get what we expect!
It's the equivalent of saying "my three-year old can do that too" confronted with art that's different.
Mustonen clearly wanted to say something with those non-legato pickings at the keys, I'd say, take some time to figure out how that works.

MCGM

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Oct 15, 2021, 3:31:28 AM10/15/21
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Hooray for Olli! :D

Ricardo Jimenez

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Oct 15, 2021, 11:05:25 AM10/15/21
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On Fri, 15 Oct 2021 00:27:30 -0700 (PDT), Herman <her...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>This, too, is internet-thinking, arguing in black-or-white. I'm not saying an audience should like everything it's offered. This however was about an internet guy who not only rejects a performance in about the first minute of the recital, talking about 'brain-fucked imbecile', but does so on publicly - in other words, he pictures his words like a competing performance and wants to get the audience on his side. Let's be rude and stupid if we don't get what we expect!
>It's the equivalent of saying "my three-year old can do that too" confronted with art that's different.
>Mustonen clearly wanted to say something with those non-legato pickings at the keys, I'd say, take some time to figure out how that works.

Positive reviews have a much greater impact for me in choosing what to
listen to than negative ones. This is even more true when the review
fails to give adequate reasons for the opinion expressed.

HT

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Oct 15, 2021, 12:06:52 PM10/15/21
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Op vrijdag 15 oktober 2021 om 17:05:25 UTC+2 schreef Ricardo Jimenez:
<g> It's good to hear that Dan's "review" didn't entice you to listen to Mustonen. You missed a shockingly bad performance of Chopin's mazurkas. It made Mustonen blush (which shows that he is an honourable man).
Whenever Dan loses his cool, I get curious. There may be hidden treasures to be found. Not in this case ...

Henk

mswd...@gmail.com

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Oct 17, 2021, 8:14:44 PM10/17/21
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The notion that there is such a thing as "internet thinking" is deluded. People have been offering extreme opinions since they were able to emit sound from their mouths, and neither print or electronic media change that at all. Or wait- in fact it does, because Dan actually offered us the performance in question and gives us the opportunity to make up our own minds. Could the same happen in the past? No.

The rest of what you right is a lot of fantasy that has no grounding. It may feel to you that Dan "pictures his words like a competing performance" but there's not a scintilla of evidence to support such a statement. You are being guided by your loathe.

mswd...@gmail.com

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Oct 17, 2021, 8:20:27 PM10/17/21
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On Sunday, October 17, 2021 at 7:14:44 PM UTC-5, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
> You are being guided by your loathe.

Actually, I don't really know this. It's just a guess. My only point here is that nobody is injured by Dan's comments. They are at least about music and relatively on-topic, which is more than I can say for plenty of what goes on around here these days. And I truly believe that if art inspires an extreme reaction, love or hate, that's interesting, and worth investigating.

Todd M. McComb

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Oct 17, 2021, 9:22:21 PM10/17/21
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In article <145043d5-a31f-4d35...@googlegroups.com>,
mswd...@gmail.com <mswd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>My only point here is that nobody is injured by Dan's comments.
>They are at least about music and relatively on-topic, which is
>more than I can say for plenty of what goes on around here these
>days.

Yes, recorded classical music is exactly the topic on which I expect
posters to opine to various degrees....

Regarding the two views in this thread, I guess I also have two
basic views on Dan's posts:

1) Whether I share his preference or not, I can usually hear what
he is talking about.

2) The way Dan expresses himself sometimes -- certainly not always
-- irritates me. So I rate his performances as uneven. :-)

These two views don't really conflict....

Anyway, whatever. At least he has his own opinion.

Owen

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Oct 19, 2021, 12:24:05 AM10/19/21
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My standard for whether a movie I watch is a good one or not:

I think or talk about it the next day.

This attitude separates the wheat from the chaff as far as I'm
concerned. I may feel that the movie is horribly bad, but if it moves
me to think or talk about it the next day, then there's something to be
said for it. My system does successfully eliminate the mind numbing
boring films, and the so-called "action" films which are just one
explosion, chase or crash after another.

I suppose I'd rather see a novelty act and turn up my nose as to listen
to a catatonic, moribund snore-fest.

-Owen
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