Hurwitz Blasts Collins's Sibelius
mpe...@comcast.net
Richard Loeb
news:1194401855.9...@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
> http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=11277
>
> Marc Perman
>
Who cares?????? Richard
Paul Goldstein
mpe...@comcast.net says...
>
>http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=11277
I agree with him on this. It's very hard for me to understand why the Collins
cycle remains so popular given the fierce competition. In 1955, it may have
been a world-beater; but now it's mostly a curiosity (only the 1 still stands
among the best).
Thomas Wood
"Paul Goldstein" <pgol...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:fgr9o...@drn.newsguy.com...
The Collins set, in the LP Vox Box, was my introduction to Sibelius
symphonies. They always struck me as competent but certainly not
transcendent performances. They've been bested many times.
Tom Wood
TareeDawg
The real fact is that in 1955 there wasn't much to beat, as far as a
cycle was concerned. Hence a sort of myth gets built up. I've suspected
this for a long time about the Collins cycle, even though I haven't
heard all of the recordings, and don't possess them.
DH, btw, forgot to add Maazel/VPO in his list of great recorded cycles,
and which can be got inexpensively on three Eloquence CDs. A far far
better proposition on Eloquence, than Collins imo, and in good sound to
boot.
Ray (Dawg) Hall, Taree
ne...@thump.org
wrote:
>I agree with him on this. It's very hard for me to understand why the Collins
>cycle remains so popular given the fierce competition. In 1955, it may have
>been a world-beater; but now it's mostly a curiosity (only the 1 still stands
>among the best).
I've been listening again (by chance). I think #7 is the finest in the
set and for me is top drawer. But #4 as Hurwitz says is as spooky as
an Ealing Comedy. #5 seems a bit too brisk. Hmm. Need to listen to 3
and 6. So fed up with #2 I don't listen to it.
jrs...@aol.com
> The real fact is that in 1955 there wasn't much to beat, as far as a
> cycle was concerned. Hence a sort of myth gets built up. I've suspected
> this for a long time about the Collins cycle, even though I haven't
> heard all of the recordings, and don't possess them.
>
I wonder what was available in 1955. The existence of Ormandy,
Koussevitzky, Beecham, and Barbirolli recordings of individual
symphonies at the time should have dampened enthusiasm for Collins'
cycle if it was really so bad.
(I have not heard the Collins cycle, nor have I ever really cared much
to hear it, actually; there's so much other Sibelius out there).
--Jeff
TareeDawg
> On Nov 6, 7:29 pm, TareeDawg <rayto...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>> The real fact is that in 1955 there wasn't much to beat, as far as a
>> cycle was concerned. Hence a sort of myth gets built up. I've suspected
>> this for a long time about the Collins cycle, even though I haven't
>> heard all of the recordings, and don't possess them.
>>
>
> I wonder what was available in 1955. The existence of Ormandy,
> Koussevitzky, Beecham, and Barbirolli recordings of individual
> symphonies at the time should have dampened enthusiasm for Collins'
> cycle if it was really so bad.
Availability maybe, in different areas of the world. And to be fair, I
don't think DH is saying Collins is actually bad. Merely a bit dull and
commonplace compared to so much of what is available today.
> (I have not heard the Collins cycle, nor have I ever really cared much
> to hear it, actually; there's so much other Sibelius out there).
Exactly.
Ray (Dawg) Hall, Taree
td
> In article <1194401855.945812.313...@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>,
> mper...@comcast.net says...
>
>
>
> >http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=11277
>
> I agree with him on this. It's very hard for me to understand why the Collins
> cycle remains so popular given the fierce competition. In 1955, it may have
> been a world-beater; but now it's mostly a curiosity (only the 1 still stands
> among the best).
Correct.
Collins was the first on the block, but not the best by a long
measure.
Why DH is only just discovering this is beyond me. Those of us who
have the LPs - I am among those, by the way - have known this for over
fifty years!!!
TD
td
> > mper...@comcast.net says...
> >>http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=11277
>
> > I agree with him on this. It's very hard for me to understand why the Collins
> > cycle remains so popular given the fierce competition. In 1955, it may have
> > been a world-beater; but now it's mostly a curiosity (only the 1 still stands
> > among the best).
>
> The real fact is that in 1955 there wasn't much to beat, as far as a
> cycle was concerned. Hence a sort of myth gets built up. I've suspected
> this for a long time about the Collins cycle, even though I haven't
> heard all of the recordings, and don't possess them.
>
> DH, btw, forgot to add Maazel/VPO in his list of great recorded cycles,
> and which can be got inexpensively on three Eloquence CDs. A far far
> better proposition on Eloquence, than Collins imo, and in good sound to
> boot.
Correct.
TD
jrs...@aol.com
> jrsn...@aol.com wrote:
> > On Nov 6, 7:29 pm, TareeDawg <rayto...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
> >> The real fact is that in 1955 there wasn't much to beat, as far as a
> >> cycle was concerned. Hence a sort of myth gets built up. I've suspected
> >> this for a long time about the Collins cycle, even though I haven't
> >> heard all of the recordings, and don't possess them.
>
> > I wonder what was available in 1955. The existence of Ormandy,
> > Koussevitzky, Beecham, and Barbirolli recordings of individual
> > symphonies at the time should have dampened enthusiasm for Collins'
> > cycle if it was really so bad.
>
> Availability maybe, in different areas of the world. And to be fair, I
> don't think DH is saying Collins is actually bad. Merely a bit dull and
> commonplace compared to so much of what is available today.
Collins comes off as ordinary.
It's the orchestra and engineering that come off poorly. I have
similar, less extreme, thoughts about the LSO of that period, which
prevents me from buying many of their albums of that time, including
the Sibelius..
--Jeff
Christopher Webber
come straight out and say for me it remains an indispensable touchstone.
I'm shocked at the indifference it seems to provoke!
I've had most other available cycles (except notably the Ehrling) in my
possession at various times. I've been very grateful to hear most of
them. I didn't "learn" the symphonies from Collins, but from Bournemouth
Berglund. I can reach out my hand this moment to touch all 3 Berglunds,
the early Davis, Rozhdestvensky, Sanderling, Bernstein, Barbirolli and
Vanska as well as Collins. I would miss them all for various reasons, in
various symphonies and in varying degrees; but the Collins would most
definitely the last to be thrown out of my personal balloon.
As to why, I won't bore anyone posting chapter and verse, only to be
shot to comparative pieces - except to point out that Collins remains
the *only* conductor on record I've heard to take the middle movement of
the 3rd Symphony at the fleet tempo Sibelius requests. Collins alone in
my experience hits it off as a light, poetic intermezzo between two
complex edifices.
Here are a few general points for the defence:
1. Collins was a composer himself, and his insight into Sibelius' formal
structures yields constant dividends. As a conductor, he has a great ear
for orchestral balance and tempo relations. Wood and trees are in
perfect equilibrium.
2. There is, to be sure, the excitement of the early 1950's pioneer
spirit about the venture taken as a whole, a spirit not replicated in
*any* of the other cycles I've heard. Its comparative closeness to the
time these symphonies were written counts for much.
3. Given its early date, and mono limitation, the Decca recording
quality (at least in the Beulah masterings) is amazingly spacious and
clear.
4. The playing (especially from the woodwind) is individual, full of
emotional intelligence and imagination, without losing sight of the
whole. The occasional scrappy moment in the strings actually adds, for
me, to the sense of being on the edge, of a living interpretation caught
on the hoof.
5. The cycle will certainly appeal more to those who prefer their
Sibelius on the classical/intelligent rather than romantic/emotional
side, but I still feel that Collins comes as close as anyone to getting
the best of both worlds.
In sum, of course it is nonsense to talk of "definitive", "best" or even
"most recommendable" when it comes to the riches of the Sibelius
discography. And many will be understandably put off by a playing style
which may sound to ears weaned on modern instruments curiously
old-fashioned (read "authentic"?), and a sound quality which is not
digitally spick and span.
Having said which, to dismiss the Collins cycle as historically outmoded
or second-rate says more about over-stocked modern satiety than it does
about these very special recordings.
--
___________________________
Christopher Webber, Blackheath, London, UK.
http://www.zarzuela.net
Peter J
> As nobody has stepped up to the plate to defend the Collins cycle, I'll
> come straight out and say for me it remains an indispensable touchstone.
> I'm shocked at the indifference it seems to provoke!
Christopher, eloquently put. I have enjoyed these performances for
years, and have just listened again to the whole cycle. Not perfect,
by any means, but still exciting and rewarding.
Peter
David Royko
imprinted on (the VoxBox, or Turnabout was it?), or at least tried to,
and it had me thinking for years that I didn't like Sibelius. Then I
heard Rozhdestvensky's 5th and became a Sibelius fan. I've gone back a
couple of times to the Collins (usually after seeing some reference to
its legendary stature), and it still does nothing for me.
Dave Royko
Andy Evans
Is the Rozhdestvensky on CD? who stocks it?
I have the LPs but don't really use vinyl anymore.
John Wiser
> "jrs...@aol.com" <jrs...@aol.com> wrote on
Tue, 06 Nov 2007
>
> > I wonder what was available in 1955.
>
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._7_%28Sibelius%29_discography>
>
> I have vague recollections of a Sibelius symphonic cycle on Decca by
> the Danish Radio Symphony Orchestra conducted by Thomas Jensen, but I
> am not sure.
>
Somehow I don't think there was a complete
Jensen-conducted Sibelius. In fifty-odd years
of LP-watching, I would have noticed it, and
would certainly have taken measures to buy it.
In the USA, the only competition for LSO/Collins
in 1955 was the Stockholm/Ehrling set made by Tono
and issued on the Mercury label. When they were new,
I thought that Ehrling's accounts were superior to Collins's
in many respects, but that the Mercury LPs
were noisy-surfaced and inferior to the Decca/London
pressings of the time.
cheers
--
John Wiser
cee...@gmail.com
td
> "EM" wrote:
> > "jrsn...@aol.com" <jrsn...@aol.com> wrote on
The Ehrling set has been made available on CD in a multiple CD set.
TD
Sacqueboutier
Has the Ehrling ever been issued on CD?
--
--
Kindest regards,
Don
Peter J
> > cheers
>
> Has the Ehrling ever been issued on CD?
>
> --
> --
> Kindest regards,
> Don- Hide quoted text -
http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//3984227132.htm
Transferred from LP I believe as the tapes had deteriorated.
Peter
Allen
> Paul Goldstein wrote:
>> In article <1194401855.9...@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>,
>> mpe...@comcast.net says...
>>> http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=11277
>>
>> I agree with him on this. It's very hard for me to understand why the
>> Collins
>> cycle remains so popular given the fierce competition. In 1955, it
>> may have
>> been a world-beater; but now it's mostly a curiosity (only the 1 still
>> stands
>> among the best).
>
> The real fact is that in 1955 there wasn't much to beat, as far as a
> cycle was concerned. Hence a sort of myth gets built up. I've suspected
> this for a long time about the Collins cycle, even though I haven't
> heard all of the recordings, and don't possess them.
>
>
> Ray (Dawg) Hall, Taree
In 1955 Sibelius was at perhaps his lowest ebb in popularity. Not many
people took him seriously at that time, for reasons that are hard to
understand. I recall that twelve years before that, in 1943 when I was
in junior high school, I heard a live performance of the Second which
blew me away and made me believe there was more there than Finlandia.
We owe something to Collins and perhaps a few others who thought
otherwise. Think how many other composers have gone through a period of
neglect after their deaths? To name a few--Mahler, Shostakovich (but for
a much shorter time), Janacek, even Bach. How many other greats never
made it back to the level of appreciation they deserve--or even just
faded away into total anonymity? But at least some climbed back into
general recognition. A few weeks ago a thread recalled to me Thomas
Gray's 250-year-old Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard, which
concerns those who never gained any recognition in their lifetimes.
Allen
Bob Harper
http://www.hmv.co.jp/product/detail/1424517
I'm not sure the sound is as good as could be got from these recordings
(these *may* be LP transcriptions rather than form the tapes; I don't
know), but they are available.
Bob Harper
Bob Harper
IIRC some of the performances (#3, maybe others?) were taken from LPs,
while others were from the tapes. I'd had high hopes, but didn't find
them special. Perhaps my opinion would be different now.
Bob Harper
Benjo Maso
"Bob Harper" <bob.h...@comcast.net> schreef in bericht
news:BOOdneXVtb7FTaza...@comcast.com...
Considering the recordings were made in the USSR from 1968 to 1974, the
sound is excellent. Clearly no LP transcriptions.
Benjo Maso
Matthew B. Tepper
be typed in news:1194438658....@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com:
I'll add my thanks.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
War is Peace. ** Freedom is Slavery. ** It's all Napster's fault!
Christopher Webber
>How many other greats never made it back to the level of appreciation
>they deserve--or even just faded away into total anonymity? But at
>least some climbed back into general recognition. A few weeks ago a
>thread recalled to me Thomas Gray's 250-year-old Elegy Written in a
>Country Churchyard, which concerns those who never gained any
>recognition in their lifetimes.
An interesting parallel, though Gray as you suggest is referring not to
those who tried and failed (or faded), but to those who never had the
chance to exercise what gifts they had, because of their lowly status in
life. What price Spohr?
I'd suggest the answer to your question is "none", at least to our
tastes. In our conservation-obsessed, academic-led musical age, where
practically everything ever written has been exhumed, re-evaluated and
considered for recording, there can be very little of merit which has
been allowed to sink completely below the horizon.
[OT -- Having said which, under a month ago I'd never heard a note by
the Spanish composer Julian Bautista (1901-1961). Despite his
over-reliance on de Falla and Stravinsky as models, Bautista turns out
to have great vitality and enough of an original voice to make me sit up
and listen! The CD, of his orchestral work, is AUTOR SAO1247, with the
Barcelona SO (Catalan National SO) under Salvador Brotons.]
David Royko
I've not seen the CD of the Rozhdestvensky 5th--I think my LP is on
Quintescence (remember that budget line?).
> In 1955 Sibelius was at perhaps his lowest ebb in popularity. Not many
> people took him seriously at that time, for reasons that are hard to
> understand.
Alex Ross's chapter on Sibelius in The Rest Is Noise does a good job
covering Sibelius's reputation's rise, fall, and rehabilitation. And
we classical music lovers think we're impervious to trends and
fashions...
Dave Royko
John Wiser
> "John Wiser" <cee...@frontiernet.not> said:
[much snippage]
>
> > "EM" wrote:
> >> "jrs...@aol.com" <jrs...@aol.com> wrote > >> [snipped]
> > [...]
> > In the USA, the only competition for LSO/Collins
> > in 1955 was the Stockholm/Ehrling set made by Tono
>
> Has the Ehrling ever been issued on CD?
>
was issued in 1999, but doesn't show up in a
search of Amazon in the USA. It seems to be
available from many UK and European sources.
Here's what the annotation offers:
"Due to severe and many.problems in
transferring the sound from existing analogue
tapes these historic recordings have been
preserved from archive-condition LPs
(mainly Mercury pressings from Warner Music
Sweden's archives, but in some cases with
additional parts from the Swedish Metronome
pressings, owned by the Swedish Radio) using
the latest computer-aided sound restoration
system, NoNoise."
Contrary to my previous belief, Tono -- a
Norwegian firm -- had no part in producing this
set. Despite considerable shortcomings in
sound, I regard this reissue as a keeper..
Joey7
wrote:
> As nobody has stepped up to the plate to defend the Collins cycle, I'll
> come straight out and say for me it remains an indispensable touchstone.
> I'm shocked at the indifference it seems to provoke!
I'm with Christopher on this. In Collins' cycle, I find a down-to-
earth wholesomeness to the performances that may not create the most
in tension but whose humanness I find too
often lacking in modern run-throughs.
I see that Amazon has a three disc set of the Collins available as an
import from Decca Japan.
I wonder how the transfers are compared to the Beulah issue?
Gerard
> And
> we classical music lovers think we're impervious to trends and
> fashions...
>
Why do you think so?
Trends and fashions are there every day. Hypes e.g. Mostly with singers, but
also instrumental soloists and conductors.
And what about HIP?
Sacqueboutier
I remember Roger Dettmer praising Ehrling in both
Sibelius and Nielsen, and wishing that someone
would come up with complete cycles with Ehrling
standing in front of a great orchestra in good sound.
This was in Fanfare back in the 80s and I'm only
going on memory, so......
Dontait...@aol.com
(snip)
> I remember Roger Dettmer praising Ehrling in both
> Sibelius and Nielsen, and wishing that someone
> would come up with complete cycles with Ehrling
> standing in front of a great orchestra in good sound.
>
> This was in Fanfare back in the 80s and I'm only
> going on memory, so......
I remember that too. There was a feature article about Ehrling in
Fanfare at about that time. Perhaps it was by Dettmer. I do recall
Ehrling being quoted in the article as saying that he had refused to
record the Sibelius symphonies again after the Stockholm cycle because
once he had recorded something -- anything -- he would never do so
again.
I own the Ehrling cycle on Mercury LPs and also prefer it to
Collins', which can be exciting but is too fast for my taste some of
the time. Particularly the second movement of no. 3.
Don Tait
rkhalona
I also prefer the Ehrling set to Collins', but unfortunately the
Ehrling set has been transferred to CD (on the Finlandia label) using
those Mercury LPs. As a result, if you compare the CD release of both
cycles, the Collins set comes out ahead sonically.
RK
Dontait...@aol.com
(snip)
> I also prefer the Ehrling set to Collins', but unfortunately the
> Ehrling set has been transferred to CD (on the Finlandia label) using
> those Mercury LPs. As a result, if you compare the CD release of both
> cycles, the Collins set comes out ahead sonically.
On the other hand, might those who made the CD transfers have used
some form of noise reduction that perhaps altered the sound? And one
wonders whether the LPs they used were mint copies or not. But in any
case there's no question that the Collins recordings have better sound
even when the LPs are considered.
Don Tait
rkhalona
wrote:
> As nobody has stepped up to the plate to defend the Collins cycle, I'll
> come straight out and say for me it remains an indispensable touchstone.
> I'm shocked at the indifference it seems to provoke!
>
Hurwitz dissing a historical set is no news. He has never reviewed a
historical recording he did not dislike.
RK
Christopher Webber
> I own the Ehrling cycle on Mercury LPs and also prefer it to Collins',
>which can be exciting but is too fast for my taste some of the time.
>Particularly the second movement of no. 3.
As I noted in my pro-Collins post in this thread, the tempo Sibelius
requests for this little "Andantino con moto, quasi allegretto" is
"crotchet=116", which Collins observes and nobody else (in my
experience) gets near.
Personally, I find the resultant, graceful dance-like quality perfect
for the context, and really refreshing. There's a dreary 20th c.
convention that music in a minor key has to be equated with melancholy,
tragedy or anger - a convention which this almost Haydnesque movement
clean was meant to contradict.
In fact fast though he is, Collins sticks very close to Sibelius' speed
markings throughout his cycle --- but this may indeed reflect a question
of taste. It's certainly a component in what I meant when defining
Collins as on the "classical" rather than "romantic" side of the
Sibelian line.
jrs...@aol.com
wrote:
>
> 4. The playing (especially from the woodwind) is individual, full of
> emotional intelligence and imagination, without losing sight of the
> whole. The occasional scrappy moment in the strings actually adds, for
> me, to the sense of being on the edge, of a living interpretation caught
> on the hoof.
A lot of living interpretations (and not so living interpretations)
easily convey the sense of being on the edge without the assistance of
occasional scrappy moments. Just heard one the other day with Dudamel
and his youth orchestra that had us all on the edge of our seats in
the second movement of Shostakovich 10 yet with nary a misplaced note.
Wrong notes and bad ensemble are forgivable--usually they don't bother
me, but they don't add to the musical experience either. Rather, they
remind us that humans are fallible and that recordings are artifice;
those of us who attempt to perform music probably don't need that
reminder. A lot of other listeners, I suppose, can use the occasional
jolt of reality.
--Jeff
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:1194462592.070945.164400
@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com:
Whenever I see a ClassicsToday.com review of a historical (especially mono)
recording, I always add 4 to the "Sound Quality" rating so it will be
closer to my own scale.
jrs...@aol.com
Although the pattern is obvious, so is the reason: he prefers neat and
tidy and logical. And it takes good sound to make a tam-tam sound like
a tam-tam.
But let's not forget he gave very positive reviews to Horenstein's
historic Bruckner broadcasts, and even more germane to this
discussion--Beecham's Sibelius (a 10!). There are other examples, of
course.
--Jeff
Allen
>
> [OT -- Having said which, under a month ago I'd never heard a note by
> the Spanish composer Julian Bautista (1901-1961). Despite his
> over-reliance on de Falla and Stravinsky as models, Bautista turns out
> to have great vitality and enough of an original voice to make me sit up
> and listen! The CD, of his orchestral work, is AUTOR SAO1247, with the
> Barcelona SO (Catalan National SO) under Salvador Brotons.]
You threw a name name at me. I have never heard of Julian Bautista and
I'll have to check him out. I really have no objection to over-reliance
on Falla and Stravinsky, and I tend to be (in some peoples' opinion) a
mite overly impressed by Spanish and Latin American composers. Thanks
for the name.
Allen
Christopher Webber
>I have never heard of Julian Bautista and I'll have to check him out. I
>really have no objection to over-reliance on Falla and Stravinsky, and
>I tend to be (in some peoples' opinion) a mite overly impressed by
>Spanish and Latin American composers. Thanks for the name.
All of which encourages me to think you'll like his music as much as I
did. The "Sinfonia Breve" (early 1950s) is specially good, but it's all
alive. Happy hunting ....
--
"THE ZARZUELA COMPANION" (Scarecrow Press)
Christopher Webber, Foreword by Placido Domingo
http://www.zarzuela.net
Brendan R. Wehrung
When an early set like this got such wide distribution, what happened to
the submasters after pressing. I believe Philips kept everything in their
vault, but if Mercury had a set of tapes to press from, were they
destroyed or re-used (as they did in thos days when tape was expensive) or
chucked in a box and kept somewhere? You might recall the US Urania
issues that were in some cases taken from 30ips copies of Suprophon
origininals and were still around to become CDs.
Brendan
Benjo Maso
"Christopher Webber" <c...@zarzuela.net.invalid> schreef in bericht
news:O$qilKPYJ...@217.169.1.80...
> Dontait...@aol.com writes:
>> I own the Ehrling cycle on Mercury LPs and also prefer it to Collins',
>> which can be exciting but is too fast for my taste some of the time.
>> Particularly the second movement of no. 3.
>
> As I noted in my pro-Collins post in this thread, the tempo Sibelius
> requests for this little "Andantino con moto, quasi allegretto" is
> "crotchet=116", which Collins observes and nobody else (in my experience)
> gets near.
Kondrashin comes pretty close.
Benjo Maso
rkhalona
wrote:
> As nobody has stepped up to the plate to defend the Collins cycle, I'll
> come straight out and say for me it remains an indispensable touchstone.
> I'm shocked at the indifference it seems to provoke!
>
I have the cycle on Beulah and I don't know if the Australian
Eloquence transfers are any better, but DH disliking a historical set
is no news at all. He has never reviewed a historical recording he
did not dislike.
Of course the sonics can't be compared with modern stereo recordings,
and of course the orchestra in those days was not what it became in
the late 50s and early 60s when it produced some of its most famous
recordings, but the cycle is an interesting window to when there
weren't many recordings of the symphonies around.
But fair appraisal of historical recordings (and even some modern
ones) is not what Classics Today is all about.
RK
Ralph
>
> Whenever I see a ClassicsToday.com review of a historical (especially mono)
> recording, I always add 4 to the "Sound Quality" rating so it will be
> closer to my own scale.
>
Chuckle.
ne...@thump.org
<oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>Whenever I see a ClassicsToday.com review of a historical (especially mono)
>recording, I always add 4 to the "Sound Quality" rating so it will be
>closer to my own scale.
Hurwitz must have a very cheap Hifi. He gave Rattle's Berlin La Mer a
poor sonics rating. Its probably the best orchestral recording to come
my way in a very long time. It sounds stunning in my system. As the
phongram would say, "demonstration quality".
Thought its so depressing that Ansermet / Crespin Ravel disc sounds
almost as alluring and was recorded 40 odd years prior.
TareeDawg
Fashion in conductors, yes, especially. As for HIP, even though the term
is used (unfortunately I feel), it doesn't really exist for me, as it
doesn't really mean all that much. Ever seen the term used on a CD cover?
Ray (Dawg) Hall, Taree
Peter J
> I have the cycle on Beulah and I don't know if the Australian
> Eloquence transfers are any better........> RK
The new Australian transfers are very good indeed, I think, though the
2nd Beulah set has a rather better transferred Symphony No1. The new
set also includes the Jensen Karelia suite.
Peter
Gerard
> Gerard wrote:
> > David Royko wrote:
> >
> > > And
> > > we classical music lovers think we're impervious to trends and
> > > fashions...
> > >
> >
> > Why do you think so?
> > Trends and fashions are there every day. Hypes e.g. Mostly with
> > singers, but also instrumental soloists and conductors.
> > And what about HIP?
>
> Fashion in conductors, yes, especially.
I think it is even stronger for opera singers (und Singerinnen).
I don't mean necessarily within this ng, but in the 'real' world.
> As for HIP, even though the
> term is used (unfortunately I feel), it doesn't really exist for me,
> as it doesn't really mean all that much. Ever seen the term used on a
> CD cover?
>
Of course not, because it's an "invention" from this ng, and mainly (if not
only) used here.
Outside this ng almost nobody knows what it means (and the literal meaning is a
strange thing anyway).
CD covers however do mention things like "on original instruments". Sometimes.
But in general they tend to give no information (about whatever).
Gerard
>
> Whenever I see a ClassicsToday.com review of a historical (especially
> mono) recording, I always add 4 to the "Sound Quality" rating so it
> will be closer to my own scale.
That's very "realistic"!
So you give a 9 to some historical recordings for the sound "quality".
Frank Berger
"Peter J" <mayb...@talk21.com> wrote in message
news:1194508295.3...@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
Speaking of Jensen, I recently e-mailed Dutton about whether they might
re-release Jensens's Nielsen 1+5 disk, which I've been looking for for a
long time but which seems to have dissapeared off the face of the earth. I
did find a used one listed at amazon.jp for about $175, but didn't go for it
(it's still listed there). Dutton replied, "maybe next year."
ckho...@ckhowell.com
> the Danish Radio Symphony Orchestra conducted by Thomas Jensen, but I
> am not sure.
>
>From the booklet notes by Arne Helman to a Danacord CD dedicated to
Jensen:
"During the period 1957-63 Jensen was chief of the Danish Radio
Orchestra. With them he performed the seven Sibelius symphonies. The
original tapes are excellent mono sound. They ought to be published,
of course. I am unhappy to have to report that the present copyright
rule seems to make it impossible".
One day, perhaps ...
Chris Howell
Matthew B. Tepper
typed in news:1194553016.3...@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com:
> From the booklet notes by Arne Helman to a Danacord CD dedicated to
> Jensen:
>
> "During the period 1957-63 Jensen was chief of the Danish Radio
> Orchestra. With them he performed the seven Sibelius symphonies. The
> original tapes are excellent mono sound. They ought to be published,
> of course. I am unhappy to have to report that the present copyright
> rule seems to make it impossible".
>
> One day, perhaps ...
Or maybe sooner. Look at what happened with the Toscanini Bruckner 7th
earlier this year.
Nothing is "impossible."
Nothing!
Steve de Mena
Why? You negotiate with the copyright owner(s) and release them. It
might not be that easy, but to say "copyright rule[s] seems to make it
impossible" seems a little overboard.
Steve
Bob Harper
Bob Harper (who would love to hear the recordings in question)
news.verizon.net
"Bob Harper" <bob.h...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:_oydnS1nFcbtLa7a...@comcast.com...[...]
>>> "During the period 1957-63 Jensen was chief of the Danish Radio
>>> Orchestra. With them he performed the seven Sibelius symphonies. The
>>> original tapes are excellent mono sound. They ought to be published,
>>> of course. I am unhappy to have to report that the present copyright
>>> rule seems to make it impossible".
>>
>> Why? You negotiate with the copyright owner(s) and release them. It
>> might not be that easy, but to say "copyright rule[s] seems to make it
>> impossible" seems a little overboard.
>>
>> Steve
> Not impossible, but perhaps prohibitive.
>
> Bob Harper (who would love to hear the recordings in question)
While there's a solution to this problem, the "professionals" who do such
things seem to prefer contemporary music.
(See the Nono thread...)
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:47338f37$0$9559$4c36...@roadrunner.com:
> ckho...@ckhowell.com wrote:
>>
>>>From the booklet notes by Arne Helman to a Danacord CD dedicated to
>> Jensen:
>>
>> "During the period 1957-63 Jensen was chief of the Danish Radio
>> Orchestra. With them he performed the seven Sibelius symphonies. The
>> original tapes are excellent mono sound. They ought to be published,
>> of course. I am unhappy to have to report that the present copyright
>> rule seems to make it impossible".
>
> Why? You negotiate with the copyright owner(s) and release them. It
> might not be that easy, but to say "copyright rule[s] seems to make it
> impossible" seems a little overboard.
Somebody doesn't/didn't want to go to the trouble, pay a few $$$, etc.
Brendan R. Wehrung
> Steve de Mena <ste...@stevedemena.com> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in news:47338f37$0$9559$4c36...@roadrunner.com:
>
>> ckho...@ckhowell.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>From the booklet notes by Arne Helman to a Danacord CD dedicated to
>>> Jensen:
>>>
>>> "During the period 1957-63 Jensen was chief of the Danish Radio
>>> Orchestra. With them he performed the seven Sibelius symphonies. The
>>> original tapes are excellent mono sound. They ought to be published,
>>> of course. I am unhappy to have to report that the present copyright
>>> rule seems to make it impossible".
>>
>> Why? You negotiate with the copyright owner(s) and release them. It
>> might not be that easy, but to say "copyright rule[s] seems to make it
>> impossible" seems a little overboard.
>
> Somebody doesn't/didn't want to go to the trouble, pay a few $$$, etc.
>
Most likely there are some impossible details nobody wants to fulfill. UK
copyright of yore (as I understand it, I don't know about today) gave each
member of the orchestra a veto right, keeping many recordings from
commercial issue until if fell over the 50-year cliff. Think of trying to
track down everybody, or having to face a union that held all the cards in
their behalf, unless they had signed a contract surrendering those rights
(ie. BBC orchestras, which are staff orchestras performing at the behest
of the Corporation).
Brendan
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:fh0uhq$qt1$1...@theodyn.ncf.ca:
There should be amendments to that law, to the effect that 1) the name of any
dissenting member should be publicized, along with full address and phone
number; and 2) the amount of money lost by any other orchestra member also
should be publicized.
Let peer pressure do its thing.
Gerard
> > In article <4732c84b$0$45233$dbd4...@news.wanadoo.nl>,
> > ghen_nosp...@hotmail.com says... TareeDawg wrote:
> > > Gerard wrote:
> > > > David Royko wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > And
> > > > > we classical music lovers think we're impervious to trends and
> > > > > fashions...
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Why do you think so?
> > > > Trends and fashions are there every day. Hypes e.g. Mostly with
> > > > singers, but also instrumental soloists and conductors.
> > > > And what about HIP?
> > >
> > > Fashion in conductors, yes, especially.
> >
> > I think it is even stronger for opera singers (und Singerinnen).
> > I don't mean necessarily within this ng, but in the 'real' world.
> >
> >
> > > As for HIP, even though the
> > > term is used (unfortunately I feel), it doesn't really exist for
> > > me, as it doesn't really mean all that much. Ever seen the term
> > > used on a CD cover?
> > >
> >
> > Of course not, because it's an "invention" from this ng, and mainly
> > (if not
> > only) used here.
> > Outside this ng almost nobody knows what it means (and the literal
> > meaning is a
> > strange thing anyway).
> >
>
> which is widespread throughout the music world. Google "historically
> informed performance" and you get over 200K hits; actually explore
> some of the links that come up and you'll quickly realize it is a
> common term outside of rmcr.
>
> wr
Aren't utterly and hopelessly in some or many other way(s)?
The subject here was the term 'HIP'. Not "historically informed performance".
Gerard
> In article <47340fbe$0$13971$dbd4...@news.wanadoo.nl>,
> ghen_nosp...@hotmail.com says...
> widely as the fully spelled out phrase? All you need to do is google
> the phrase as I suggested, and start taking a quick glance at the
> links, and you'll see you are wrong. The acronym is regularly used
> far beyond the realm of rmcr.
>
>
Try to find sites when googling 'HIP'.
Paul Goldstein
>
>Wayne Reimer wrote:
>> You are utterly and hopelessly clueless about the usage of this term,
>> which is widespread throughout the music world. Google "historically
>> informed performance" and you get over 200K hits; actually explore
>> some of the links that come up and you'll quickly realize it is a
>> common term outside of rmcr.
>>
>> wr
>
>Aren't utterly and hopelessly in some or many other way(s)?
>
>The subject here was the term 'HIP'. Not "historically informed performance".
Even by your standards that's a pretty lame comeback.
A. Brain
Sibelius recordings, when will RCA put the Koussevitsky
Sibelius 2 on CD? I still have the LP--on one of those
flimsy "Dynagoove" editions from the early '70s,
but this is, like the Collins, a recording that was highly
regarded in its day. I keep thinking it will appear on
CD, but SFAIK it never has.
(I'm referring to the recording with BSO circa
1950.)
--
A. Brain
Remove NOSPAM for email.
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:Mm7Zi.10389$if6.5474@bgtnsc05-
news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
> Well, as long as someone is re-issuing "celebrated" Sibelius recordings,
> when will RCA put the Koussevitsky Sibelius 2 on CD? I still have the LP--
> on one of those flimsy "Dynagoove" editions from the early '70s, but this
> is, like the Collins, a recording that was highly regarded in its day. I
> keep thinking it will appear on CD, but SFAIK it never has.
The geniuses at BMG have, in their infinite wisdom, issued it in Japan, and
nowhere else to my knowledge.
> (I'm referring to the recording with BSO circa 1950.)
--
TareeDawg
>> In article <47346bdb$0$64547$dbd4...@news.wanadoo.nl>, ghen_nosp...@hotmail.com says...
> ineffectively.
Come on you two, get to grips. The point I was making, is that while we
are all aware of the 'possible' meanings for the HIP acronym, recordings
aren't sold or marketed, on the basis of being HIP, whether period
instruments are used, or the stick waver being a 'hipster', but on the
basis of being a recorded artifact of (usually) a period piece,
including Beethoven, by an ensemble or orchestra, usually with a name
that can often give the game away, such as Music Antiquita of Cologne,
or even a modern instrument 'ensemble' such as the Concertgebouw.
To find out the relevant information, one usually has to scour the
sleeve notes, or do some prior research.
Ray (Dawg) Hall, Taree
Gerard
> > In article <47346bdb$0$64547$dbd4...@news.wanadoo.nl>,
> ineffectively.
>
Like I said: it was about the term "HIP".
Allen
started looking for a record that matched the intensity that I heard,
and the Koussevitsky was the first that I found. (Incidentally, Allan,
that live performance was by the Houston Symphony conducted, as I
recall, by Ernst Hoffmann, when they played some performances in San
Angelo.) Another good "early recording was Kletzki on an Angel LP (don't
remember the orchestra)--my copy was in one of those simulated burlap
jackets Angel used early on. For those who don't remember: in the early
days of LP, Angel issued many LPs in two different formats--a cheap
version in the burlap look with no notes, and a slip jacket with a
sleeve with a dowel on the end containing the title and with notes
printed on the back. As a student, I always opted for the cheap
ones--same music, a dollar or two cheaper.
Allen
Frank Berger
"Matthew B. Tepper" <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Xns99E3BE8AF73...@216.168.3.70...
> "A. Brain" <abr...@NOSPAMatt.net> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in news:Mm7Zi.10389$if6.5474@bgtnsc05-
> news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
>
>> Well, as long as someone is re-issuing "celebrated" Sibelius recordings,
>> when will RCA put the Koussevitsky Sibelius 2 on CD? I still have the
>> LP--
>> on one of those flimsy "Dynagoove" editions from the early '70s, but this
>> is, like the Collins, a recording that was highly regarded in its day. I
>> keep thinking it will appear on CD, but SFAIK it never has.
>
> The geniuses at BMG have, in their infinite wisdom, issued it in Japan,
> and
> nowhere else to my knowledge.
And which I had no difficulty in ordering from hmv.co.jp.
Joey7
> "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote in messagenews:Xns99E3BE8AF73...@216.168.3.70...
>
> > "A. Brain" <abr...@NOSPAMatt.net> appears to have caused the following
> > news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
>
> >> Well, as long as someone is re-issuing "celebrated" Sibelius recordings,
> >> when will RCA put the Koussevitsky Sibelius 2 on CD? I still have the
> >> LP--
> >> on one of those flimsy "Dynagoove" editions from the early '70s, but this
> >> is, like the Collins, a recording that was highly regarded in its day. I
> >> keep thinking it will appear on CD, but SFAIK it never has.
>
> > The geniuses at BMG have, in their infinite wisdom, issued it in Japan,
> > and
> > nowhere else to my knowledge.
>
> And which I had no difficulty in ordering from hmv.co.jp.
Anyone care to comment on how this 1950 performance compares to
Koussevitzky's 1935 BSO account. Is it still a must if one
already owns the 1935 version on Pearl?
jrs...@aol.com
That explains it. My parents usually opted for the cheap burlap look
but later in record stores I noticed the proliferation of the dowl-end
versions.
Of course now Kletzki/Philharmonia has been enshrined on CD as well.
I have both of the Koussevitzky's but I've never compared them. I
remember liking the 1950 somewhat better, maybe because of the sound
or maybe because I heard that one first.
--Jeff
A. Brain
news:13jcvdi...@news.supernews.com...
It's still puzzling that for whatever reason this is not
issued in the U.S. I mean, here we have a semi-lengendary
conductor with a famous American orchestra, doing a
work that he specialized in. The original RCA "Victrola"
LP was part of a series called "Legendary Performances"
or something like that.
When you see a lot of other recordings issued
by RCA, you have to wonder why they did not
issue this one in the U.S.
A. Brain
news:4735c4d7$0$8700$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
> Yes!!! I first heard a live performance of the Second in 1943 and
> started looking for a record that matched the intensity that I heard,
> and the Koussevitsky was the first that I found. (Incidentally, Allan,
> that live performance was by the Houston Symphony conducted, as I
> recall, by Ernst Hoffmann, when they played some performances in San
> Angelo.) Another good "early recording was Kletzki on an Angel LP
> (don't remember the orchestra)--my copy was in one of those simulated
> burlap jackets Angel used early on. For those who don't remember: in
> the early days of LP, Angel issued many LPs in two different
> formats--a cheap version in the burlap look with no notes, and a slip
> jacket with a sleeve with a dowel on the end containing the title and
> with notes printed on the back. As a student, I always opted for the
> cheap ones--same music, a dollar or two cheaper.
I don't recall those Angel jackets, though I do
recall a period when LPs came in mono and
stereo versions. I think that ended around 1967
or so.
Meanwhile, I wonder when the last time
was that Texas orchestras or opera companies
toured around Texas. HGO used to have
a touring company. And of course the
Met used to stop in Dallas during its
spring tour--last time I caught that was
1984.
I'm sorry to say that the last time I attended
an opera in Austin, "Barber" last spring,
it was pretty bad. Admittedly, it was in a
temporary venue--some "mega church",
but all the singers were miked and it was
more like a "concert" version.
San Angelo is a college town
in West Texas. One might imagine that
there's not too much culture out there.
(I drive through there every year on the way
to Santa Fe. SFAICT you cannot even get
NPR until you get close to Midland where
I do NOT check out George W. Bush's boyhood
home or whatever other shrines might be there).
But believe it or not, San Angelo has not only
a symphony orchestra, but also a civic ballet
and a chamber music series.
It would be an interesting study to compare
state-by-state which metropolitan areas
have classical music programs, though I
guess one factor would be relative isolation.
San Angelo is about three or more hours
from Austin or Dallas, two hours from
Midland.
Matthew B. Tepper
news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
> It's still puzzling that for whatever reason this is not issued in the U.S.
> I mean, here we have a semi-lengendary conductor with a famous American
> orchestra, doing a work that he specialized in. The original RCA "Victrola"
> LP was part of a series called "Legendary Performances" or something like
> that.
>
> When you see a lot of other recordings issued by RCA, you have to wonder
> why they did not issue this one in the U.S.
I don't have to wonder why; the answer is self-evident.
Steve de Mena
> "A. Brain" <abr...@NOSPAMatt.net> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in news:Z9MZi.16047$if6.10153@bgtnsc05-
> news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
>
>> It's still puzzling that for whatever reason this is not issued in the U.S.
>> I mean, here we have a semi-lengendary conductor with a famous American
>> orchestra, doing a work that he specialized in. The original RCA "Victrola"
>> LP was part of a series called "Legendary Performances" or something like
>> that.
>>
>> When you see a lot of other recordings issued by RCA, you have to wonder
>> why they did not issue this one in the U.S.
>
> I don't have to wonder why; the answer is self-evident.
They are old mono recordings that will not sell in the U.S. in any
appreciable quantity, that's why.
Steve
Frank Berger
"Steve de Mena" <ste...@stevedemena.com> wrote in message
news:4737d173$0$16516$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
Would you care to speculate on why they (apparently) sell in Japan?
Steve de Mena
More diehard classical record collectors.
Steve
Allen
> San Angelo is a college town
> in West Texas. One might imagine that
> there's not too much culture out there.
> (I drive through there every year on the way
> to Santa Fe. SFAICT you cannot even get
> NPR until you get close to Midland where
> I do NOT check out George W. Bush's boyhood
> home or whatever other shrines might be there).
>
> But believe it or not, San Angelo has not only
> a symphony orchestra, but also a civic ballet
> and a chamber music series.
>
> It would be an interesting study to compare
> state-by-state which metropolitan areas
> have classical music programs, though I
> guess one factor would be relative isolation.
> San Angelo is about three or more hours
> from Austin or Dallas, two hours from
> Midland.
I lived in San Angelo from birth until I came to UT. We had quite a
number of musicians and groups perform there. I remember hearing Isaac
Stern twice when he was quite young, and either the Dallas or Houston
orchestra would be there nearlyevery year. The Met touring roup also
performed there several times. And some time in the 1950s (believe I was
in the army at the time and wasn't there) the Philadelphia Orchestra
toured and offered to perform in several Texas cities. Neither Dallas
nor Houston coughed up the cash, but San Angelo booked them for two
concerts, which were attended by the Dallas and Houston music feviewers.
And yes, there is an NPR station there--a satellite of Austin's KUT.
There is much more "culture" there than in the rest of West Texas.
Allen
Brendan R. Wehrung
> On Nov 10, 9:57 pm, "Frank Berger" <frank.d.ber...@dal.frb.org> wrote:
> AF738Aqua...@216.168.3.70...
>>
>> > "A. Brain" <abr...@NOSPAMatt.net> appears to have caused the following
>> > letters to be typed innews:Mm7Zi.10389$if6.5474@bgtnsc05-
>> > news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
>>
> s,
>> >> when will RCA put the Koussevitsky Sibelius 2 on CD? I still have the
>> >> LP--
> his
>> >> is, like the Collins, a recording that was highly regarded in its day.=
> I
>> >> keep thinking it will appear on CD, but SFAIK it never has.
>>
>> > The geniuses at BMG have, in their infinite wisdom, issued it in Japan,
>> > and
>> > nowhere else to my knowledge.
>>
>> And which I had no difficulty in ordering from hmv.co.jp.
>
> Anyone care to comment on how this 1950 performance compares to
> Koussevitzky's 1935 BSO account. Is it still a must if one
> already owns the 1935 version on Pearl?
>
If you like a really tight performance I prefer the first recording.
Brendan
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in
That didn't stop them from issuing recordings by Landowska, Piatigorsky,
Casals, Menuhin, Kapell, Heifetz, Toscanini, etc. There were a few
Koussevitzky CDs which crept out, and that's it. It's almost as though
they were singling him out.
Frank Berger
I was looking for a somwehat deeper answer. "I don't know" would have done,
though.
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:13jgst9...@news.supernews.com:
>
> "Steve de Mena" <ste...@stevedemena.com> wrote in message
> news:4737dee3$0$19573$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
>> Frank Berger wrote:
>>> "Steve de Mena" <ste...@stevedemena.com> wrote in message
>>> news:4737d173$0$16516$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
>>>> Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>>>>> "A. Brain" <abr...@NOSPAMatt.net> appears to have caused the
>>>>> following letters to be typed in
>>>>> news:Z9MZi.16047$if6.10153@bgtnsc05- news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It's still puzzling that for whatever reason this is not issued in
>>>>>> the U.S. I mean, here we have a semi-lengendary conductor with a
>>>>>> famous American orchestra, doing a work that he specialized in. The
>>>>>> original RCA "Victrola" LP was part of a series called "Legendary
>>>>>> Performances" or something like that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When you see a lot of other recordings issued by RCA, you have to
>>>>>> wonder why they did not issue this one in the U.S.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't have to wonder why; the answer is self-evident.
>>>>
>>>> They are old mono recordings that will not sell in the U.S. in any
>>>> appreciable quantity, that's why.
>>>
>>> Would you care to speculate on why they (apparently) sell in Japan?
>>
>> More diehard classical record collectors.
>
> I was looking for a somwehat deeper answer. "I don't know" would have
> done, though.
I would have accepted the answer "Because the record executives have
already decided they don't want to do the work, and have adjusted the data
accordingly." You'd get that answer from me, though, and not Steve. ;--)
Gerard
Does that explain why CD's a sold in Japan?
Frank Berger
You answer wouldn't make sense to me unless those executive were all
coked-out or something.
Oh.
A. Brain
It really is bizarre. Koussevitsky was not only a somewhat
legendary figure, but he was also a mentor of Bernstein and
also famous as someone who commissioned new works.
I'm given to understand that some of Leinsdorf's BSO recordings
are perhaps underrated or underappreciated, but just to give
one example of an RCA disc I spotted at the LTIS yesterday,
Stravinsky conducted by Osawa and Leinsdorf, probably from
the early to mid-'60s. And as I recall, RCA came out with a
Mahler 3 with Leinsdorf early in the SACD days.
For all I know, it might be great, but how far down the list is
Leinsdorf when you think of celebrated Mahler conductors,
even in the "early days" of Mahler recordings? That is,
regardless of the "merits" of Leinsdorf's Mahler or his
Stravinsky, is this release likely to be of more interest
than the Koussevitsky Sibelius?
I think Walter, Klemperer, Reiner, Bernstein, Barbirolli,
Mitropoulos, probably a few more before I would think
of Leinsdorf for Mahler.
A. Brain
Next summer, I'll try to look around San Angelo more. Usually,
I just stop there for the night, go to the IHOP and take off.
And am I to understand that Barbara Bush did nothing to
advance the cause of culture in Midland all those years
she and "Poppy" were there as New England emigrants?
For shame!
Meanwhile, I'd better hurry up and order the Sibelius
from Japan, as the dollar is collapsing further, thanks
to our own "Dear Leader".
I'm expecting a stock market crash any day now.
See below:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18686.htm
Allen
Brown v. BofE decision, the San Angelo school board met and declared
every school in the district an open enrollment school. Also, the
immediately started plans to build a new high school. They purchased 29
acres of land on the riverfront, about 3/4 of a mile from the center of
town (as defined as the point on the maps from which all distances are
measured. They built a campus-type school, which now has 24 buildings,
and everyone in town goes there. This was their solution to busing,
instead of fighting in the courts. Enrollment finally got so large that
they built a separate 9th-grade center, only three blocks fro the center
of town. Incidentally, that high school when built was the first
completely air-conditioned public school in the state of Texas. In its
first few years it drew a large number of visiting school groups,
including even one from Russia, to look at the concept. I am pleased to
say that the school has turned out many more nationally-ranked swimmers
and gymnasts than football players--a rarity in Texas. There has never
been much oil money in San Angelo; its economy has been based on sheep
ranching and farming, and in the last 50 years some manufacturing. It is
much different from most of West Texas. Oh, and in regard to Barbara
Bush and culture in Midland--she did just as much for Midland is she has
done for the rest of the country. I think that family's idea of culture
is something that grows on a Petri dish.
Allen
Dontait...@aol.com
> On Nov 10, 9:57 pm, "Frank Berger" <frank.d.ber...@dal.frb.org> wrote:
(snip)
> Anyone care to comment on how this 1950 performance compares to
> Koussevitzky's 1935 BSO account. Is it still a must if one
> already owns the 1935 version on Pearl?
I am late to this.
The 1950 recording -- November, Koussevitzky's last recording
sessions -- is similar in outline to his 1935 one, especially the slow
tempi for the first movement. There's not a lot of difference in fact,
except that the 1935 recording seems tauter and more intense. Where
there IS a big difference is the sound. The 1950 version suffers badly
from the limiter that RCA Victor was using then to squash dynamic
levels, but on the other hand one can get a good idea of the unique
tone-color that Koussevitzky evoked (in 1935 that can't be heard). The
sound of the violins in the coda of the finale is breathtaking. But of
course the tone-color is second to the emotional involvement, which is
potent. One can hear Koussevitzky's changes to the scoring better too
in 1950, especially his addition of timpani to the passage before the
last movement's coda.
By the way, thanks for spelling the conductor's name correctly! I
have a copy of his autograph framed on my wall. He wrote his name
"KoussevitZky," not "Koussevitsky." Not a big deal, but that's how he
spelled his own name....
Don Tait
Joey7
Thanks to Don and all for the comments. In view of the numerous
Sibelius Seconds I already have, I think I'll stick with the 1935
account I have on Pearl.