Rubato in my Debussy
Ashley Vanstone
I just returned from the provincial finals round of the Associated
Manitoba Arts festivals. I am a pianist, and one the selections that I
performed was by Claude Debussy. I have a quandary on my hands now.
The adjudicator strongly expressed the view that any variation in tempo
in a piece by Debussy has been stated by the composer in the score, and
so the performer must not use any rubato other than what is indicated.
My own teacher is unsure of this, and the adjudicator at our local
festival (who is a respected professor at Brandon University) had no
problem with my approach which does make ample use of rubato. Can anyone
quote an authoritative source as to whether or not the use of rubato in
Debussy's piano music is acceptable?
Jonathan L. Ellis
I have had a similar problem with Ravel (though not in a competition). In
this case it was compounded by the fact the _audience_ seemed to consider
my rendition of the piece, with rubato that was rather different from the
composer's, rather more musical than certain renditions which were
more faithful to the score. I am sure this was not a point of principle, but
simply because playing music the way you "feel" it is in all probability more
likely to produce a convincing performance than playing it otherwise because
you have been told to. On the other hand, most teachers (including my own)
seem to think that the score is the most important indicator of how to play
it. My views are: the composer was writing in his time, and for his time. The
more markings there are in the score, the more likely it is that certain of
these should rightly come under the heading of interpretation than
composition, and thus should be regarded as a _suggestion_ rather than
absolute law: and, as tastes have changed since Debussy's or Ravel's day, the
likelihood is that one's way of playing it should change. Of course we should
have access to what the composer thought about it - but only in order to take
it into account when making up one's own mind.
It should also be remembered that in the days of Debussy and Ravel, there
were still many performers who used a great deal of rubato, enough that many
people considered it too much even then - in days when rubato was more
prevalent than it is now since the critical backlash against over-expression.
It is very probable that when Debussy and Ravel criticised people's rubato, it
was not for its presence alone, but because there was too much and in "bad
taste" even for its time. Because rubato must be a matter of taste, in the
end - not a matter of dogma.
Given what your adjudicator above said of Debussy: that sounds incredibly
narrow-minded, but I have known at least one previous teacher who reprimanded
me for applying rubato - any at all - to Liszt! (Surely even dumber?) What
matters is whether it sounds nice, and whether it works. Your adjudicator
would have been quite within his rights to say that he personally did not like
your rubato, maybe because he thought there was too much, but not to say that
there should never, on principle, be any, other than what the composer wrote:
and I would like very much to hear *any* performance of, for instance,
Debussy's "What the West Wind Saw" or Ravel's "Ondine" that did not use a lot
of (unmarked) rubato. On second thoughts, I probably _wouldn't_ like to hear
it. But you never know - I might be convinced... My advice is: as long as the
audience like it, and as long as your teacher likes it, keep going.
Jonathan Ellis.
Amitai Schlair
Just curious: what piece did you play?
I've done about half his Preludes over the last year. I may be an
unorthodox pianist, but there is definitely room for a bit of rubato in
there. How much is hard to say -- it depends on what your purpose is.
Ashley Vanstone <vans...@cpnet.net> wrote:
> I just returned from the provincial finals round of the Associated
> Manitoba Arts festivals. I am a pianist, and one the selections that I
> performed was by Claude Debussy. I have a quandary on my hands now.
> The adjudicator strongly expressed the view that any variation in tempo
> in a piece by Debussy has been stated by the composer in the score, and
> so the performer must not use any rubato other than what is indicated.
>
> My own teacher is unsure of this, and the adjudicator at our local
> festival (who is a respected professor at Brandon University) had no
> problem with my approach which does make ample use of rubato. Can anyone
> quote an authoritative source as to whether or not the use of rubato in
> Debussy's piano music is acceptable?
--
Amitai Schlair
amitai....@usa.net
--
msha...@interlog.com
Ashley Vanstone wrote:
>
> I just returned from the provincial finals round of the Associated
> Manitoba Arts festivals. I am a pianist, and one the selections that I
> performed was by Claude Debussy. I have a quandary on my hands now.
> The adjudicator strongly expressed the view that any variation in tempo
> in a piece by Debussy has been stated by the composer in the score, and
> so the performer must not use any rubato other than what is indicated.
>
> My own teacher is unsure of this, and the adjudicator at our local
> festival (who is a respected professor at Brandon University) had no
> problem with my approach which does make ample use of rubato. Can anyone
> quote an authoritative source as to whether or not the use of rubato in
> Debussy's piano music is acceptable?
The French do not admit a lot of rubato in their music, nor do they like
much meddling with other expressive devices. Follow Debussy's tempo
indications carefully, but add only subtle inflections and minimal
rubato. Gieseking's playing of this repertoire should give you the
idea.
MS
Amitai Schlair
Lawrence Eckerling <lec...@mcs.com> wrote:
> Amitai Schlair wrote:
> >
> (Debussy Preludes)
> >
> > ..... there is definitely room for a bit of rubato in
> > there. How much is hard to say -- it depends on what your purpose is.
>
> Actually depends on what Debussy's purpose was!
>
> Lawrence Eckerling
That, and how much fidelity to the composer's intent the pianist wishes.
Personally, I don't give a damn what Debussy thought -- I'm just glad he
thought it! :)
Phillip Silver
In article <337FA9...@cpnet.net>,
Ashley Vanstone <vans...@cpnet.net> wrote:
>Can anyone quote an authoritative source as to whether or not the use of >rubato in Debussy's piano music is acceptable?
I would suggest listening to the few recordings that Debussy made using the
Welte Mignon recording piano. As for the adjudicator, it is unfortunate,
but all too common, to run across such an inflexible narrow view pertaining
to the performance of music.
Phillip SIlver