French Horn and vibrato
she...@iowave.physics.uiowa.edu
haven't gotten into this debate on vibrato, its use, and its effect. Since I
am an American with a healthy dose o' the Irish running through my veins
[semi-private joke to a certain person] I think I will speak my mind.
I play F Horn for orchestras, bands, chamber music and for a choir I sing in
that has a healty bend toward emphasizing whatever is the 'most musical' and
'most appropriate' interpretation of the music (mostly written and sometimes
arranged by the director). [IMO of course] NEVER, NEVER, Never, never do I
give the thought of vibrato any real consideration. (do I feel things getting
a little hot?) There are two ways to create vibrato: diaphram and mechanical.
IMO the diaphram technique, as with most brass-winds, is a loosing proposition.
It always sounds 'funny'. Then, the mechanical technique is also
undesirable because it upsets the embrochure and the 'sound' suffers. Because
the Horn is so full of overtones it's straight-tone is particularly rich but
anything that effects the embrochure (which is almost eveything) can cause the
tone to become dead and dull. Why ruin the beautiful tone/timbre/color/
resonance/... that can produce anything from a warm, syrupy kind of sound
to a brazen, ear-splitting fanfare. (obviously one of the most expressive
instruments on the Earth) ;-o
I can't wait to hear from y'all 'over the pond' where i know that some prefer
a tasteful use of the vibrato.
I have been taking vocal lessons for a year now and one thing I am told
constantly is that when my vibrato 'appears' my voice is nearing a relaxed
and desirable state. I am told that I will be able to control the
speed to an extent as I become competent. [In high school we weren't allowed
to use vibrato in choir and since I played the bass and piano for the choir
I never found myself in a solo position, so i learned to completel supress my
vib. and 8 years later I am having to unlearn that tendency]
Hmmmmm, I can still amaze myself when I babble thru the keyboard.
Ta, ever so.
Troy Shehan
she...@iowave.physics.uiowa.edu
Bjorn F Langoren
In article <1994Apr11...@iowave.physics.uiowa.edu> she...@iowave.physics.uiowa.edu writes:
shehan> I play F Horn for orchestras, bands, chamber music and for
shehan> a choir I sing in that has a healty bend toward
shehan> emphasizing whatever is the 'most musical' and 'most
shehan> appropriate' interpretation of the music (mostly written
shehan> and sometimes arranged by the director). [IMO of course]
shehan> NEVER, NEVER, Never, never do I give the thought of
shehan> vibrato any real consideration. (do I feel things getting
shehan> a little hot?) There are two ways to create vibrato:
shehan> diaphram and mechanical. IMO the diaphram technique, as
shehan> with most brass-winds, is a loosing proposition. It
shehan> always sounds 'funny'. Then, the mechanical technique is
shehan> also undesirable because it upsets the embrochure and the
shehan> 'sound' suffers. Because the Horn is so full of overtones
shehan> it's straight-tone is particularly rich but anything that
shehan> effects the embrochure (which is almost eveything) can
shehan> cause the tone to become dead and dull. Why ruin the
shehan> beautiful tone/timbre/color/ resonance/... that can
shehan> produce anything from a warm, syrupy kind of sound to a
shehan> brazen, ear-splitting fanfare. (obviously one of the most
shehan> expressive instruments on the Earth) ;-o
Almost all hornists I have spoken too seem to have the same opinion
as you on this matter. But sometimes(almost never) when playing a
solo (and only when there is a long, romantic phrase), I use a tiny
little bit of vibrato. It is not a thing I think about and I don't force it.
It just feels natural sometimes.
Maybe it has something to do with the embrouchure we use. I use an
embrouchure you could describe as the 'rubber face' method.
The other kind of embrouchure is the 'poker face' method. The "rubber face"
method is very good for the endurance and prevents the break between
the high and low register. With the 'rubber face' method you do dynamic
muscle work, while the 'poker face' method is static muscle work.
I am not saying that one method is 'right' and the other one is 'wrong'.
(actually I use the poker face method sometimes)
I will try to find out if the vibrato sounds 'funny' by asking the
other hornists in the band to listen to it (It sounds different for
the listener). If they agree that it sounds 'funny', I will never
vibrate again (promise ;-).
--
Bjorn Frode Langoren,
(b...@efi.sintef.no)
Patrick Schlesinger
I agree that generally one doesn't hear a lot of vibrato used in French
Horn playing. However, there are some notable exceptions. Robert
Routch, a French Horn player here in the United States, often performs
solo works and chamber music with vibrato and uses it very effectively.
You can judge for yourself on records with Tashi, the chamber group that
included Richard Stoltzman (who also uses some vibrato on clarinet), and
the Kavafians, among others.
--
Patrick Schlesinger
Landels, Ripley & Diamond
San Francisco, California
psc...@netcom.com
Ehig
(Patrick Schlesinger) writes:
I believe that tasteful use on long notes in romantic music, is
appropriate.
I have recently heard a brilliant recital by Peter Kurau of the
Rochester Symphony and he used it tastefully in the Duka villanelle.
Many fine artists do. Any thing
over done is bad news. FRoydis Wekre of Oslo Philharmonic probably
has an opinion on this matter
Bjørn Frode Langøren
eh...@aol.com (Ehig) wrote:
>FRoydis Wekre of Oslo Philharmonic probably
>has an opinion on this matter
Frøydis Ree Wekre is now a professor at Norges Musikkhøgskole
(Norwegian High School of Music) in Oslo and works and travels as a solo
artist.
--
Bjørn Frode Langøren,
(b...@efi.sintef.no)
AlanCarolC
the vibrato question by saying (& demonstrating) that the style of
composition & expectation of the composer had lots to do with it. He
contrasted the horn solo in the Franck symphony in d minor (which he
played using a mild vibrato) with the "alphorn" solo in the Brahms symphon
no. 1 (which he played without vibrato). Farkas cited those 2 excerpts as
(1) an example in which horn vibrato is appropriate (the French symphony)
& (2) as another example in which it is not (the German). Makes sense to
me. Also, the way it sounded when Farkas played both excerpts was highly
convincing. This is consistent with the Dukas example previously cited.
I have heard that French & Russian hornists favor vibrato while German,
British, & American ones shun it. Any truth to that? I have also heard
that the days of such nationalistic distinctions are fading fast, that
before many more years there will be only 1 style. If so, perhaps more
would be lost than gained. --
Alan Cole, McLean, Virginia USA
Linda B. Fairtile
: I have heard that French & Russian hornists favor vibrato while German,
: British, & American ones shun it. Any truth to that? I have also heard
: that the days of such nationalistic distinctions are fading fast, that
: before many more years there will be only 1 style. If so, perhaps more
: would be lost than gained. --
: Alan Cole, McLean, Virginia USA
My husband, a free-lance horn player, prefers a naturally-produced
vibrato, resulting from the proper positioning of the breathing apparatus
(kind of like GOOD opera singers). Rather than making a distinction
between the nationalities of composers (to decide when to employ more or
less vibrato), he leans towards looking at historical periods, i.e. less
for "Classical" more for "Romantic." He agrees with your assessment of
nationalistic distinctions, but this will probably disappear as people
study in one country and perform in another.
Linda
Everett Doner
It's also important to consider if vibrato just plain sounds right. While
national distinctions are to a good degree true, I've found that often vibrato
can sound wrong in certain works. Right now I'm working on the Hadyn
2nd concerto and I'm using a vibrato, albeit a slight one, and I think (as well
as others that have heard me) that it is very tasteful. Now doing this goes
aginst the concept of not using vibrato with the classical rep. Also, when I use
vibrato it comes naturally, without thinking that I want to use it -- it just
sounds right to my concept of how a piece should flow. At the same time vibrato
seems out of place in, for example, the second Strauss. The best thing to say,
perhaps, is just be tasteful and gather informed opinions.
Everett
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Oberlin College Conservatory of Music |
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http://132.162.200.22/consultants/Everett/Everett.html
PGP 2.2 Public Key via Email
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>
>>AlanCarolC (alanc...@aol.com) wrote:
>>: I have heard that French & Russian hornists favor vibrato while German,
>>: British, & American ones shun it.
It has been by observation that Germans use vibrato more than most people
(listen to Peter Damm or Hermann Baumann sometime),but I also have heard
people claim that that trend is changing.
It is important to be practical here, as well, though. In a recent lesson, a
teacher of mine, noticing my vibrato on a Mozart concerto, commented on how
German I sounded (which I took as a compliment: Baumann is my favorite
player), but then he proceeded to point out that the competition for which I
was preparing has mostly American judges, as will most auditions I will ever
do, so it is probably wise to can the vibrato as much as possible, at least
when being judged in this country.
Another teacher pointed out to me that some people may perhaps tend to
subconsciously make a decision to use vibrato, even though it seems to occur
naturally, as an attempt to make up for not achieving the tone they desire.
Can't be proven, but I agree, and it is certainly food for thought.
Also remember, though that national styles are not carved in stone and once a
player is well-established, he/she can pretty much do what he/she wants. For
evidence, listen to american John Cerminaro -- a well-established player with
a very nice vibrato.
If you want some interesting discussion on the topic, you might post in the
IHS Electronic Discussion Group (now open to people regardless of IHS
membership) at ho...@merlin.nlu.edu (though e-mail).
just my 2cents
rob
Ehig
(AlanCarolC) writes:
I also heard Farkas demostrate vibrato. I am for vibrato on some pieces
and against it for most Mozart and Classical. The romantic works of
Tchaidkowsky etc can have it used tastefully. The clarinet and Horn is
already so expressive that Vibrato can be overdone easily. My attendance
at the International HornConferences have told me that the exposure to
many styles is not erasing
differences in national styles, but reinforcing good taste and good tone
and good musicians ship as well as having many seek and individuality to
there horn playing, while many will conform to the great average middle
ground, it is neccsery for many to reach the norm before one can find your
own artistic gifts to create a personality to your playing. Viva la
Differance
Adam Ronthal
The first time I heard Peter Damm's Strauss Concerti I absolutely hated them.
I agree that vibrato should not be used for most Mozart and Classical
stuff, but I would extend that to most romantic stuff too, unless it is used
very sparingly and tastefully.
For example, the Gliere concerto works very well with vibrato... indeed, I think
for this piece, vibrato adds a lot of feeling and expression.
As for myself, I only pick up a lovely vibrato when I'm nervous. :-)
Adam
Natalie Starkey
>The first time I heard Peter Damm's Strauss Concerti I absolutely hated them.
>I agree that vibrato should not be used for most Mozart and Classical
>stuff, but I would extend that to most romantic stuff too, unless it is used
>very sparingly and tastefully.
I was taught to play *without* vibrato, and it has influenced my tastes
ever since. I find that many eastern european and russian players use
what i would consider excessive vibrato, and sometimes i just can't
listen to it. I agree though, that there are a few cases where, when
used with discretion( i can't spell today) it works well. I would be
interested to hear how learing of technique had affected other peoples
listening taste, for any instrument.
natalia
Matthew H. Fields
hmm, well, I don't play any instruments well, but I usually assume that
when I write for clarinets or horns that I'll get no vibrato by default
unless I ask for it---not for any technical or theoretical reason, but
purely by convention. But I've heard a few players of each make a sweet
vibrato, so I know of no reason it couldn't be done tastefully.
Helen Read
> I was taught to play *without* vibrato, and it has influenced my tastes
> ever since. I find that many eastern european and russian players use
> what i would consider excessive vibrato, and sometimes i just can't
> listen to it.
I've had exactly the same experience. I was taught to play with a full,
rich, dark sound--no vibrato. It's not that I was taught to *not* play
with vibrato, it's just that I was never taught *to* use vibrato.
If vibrato was ever mentioned at all, it was to say that it's not needed
on the horn.
I once bought a Russian recording of some of the Strauss tone poems, and
I found the horn vibrato bizarre. It ruined the whole recording for me.
(I've since replaced it with something I like.)
Helen Read
Peter Anthony Cowan
No horn vibrato at all, ever??? I am a rank amateur when it comes to
playing trumpet and trombone, but when I play a simple melody like "Moon
River", or a standard like "Taps", I love to throw in vibrato on the
extended notes. When I rarely play I do so in a parking garage next to
my work, the acoustics are totally perfect, almost like having tons of
reverb effect on a mic, but acoustics + vibrato provides for such a
beautiful sound. Not to mention that it also masks my flawed tone,
and technique. =)
MDBauer
vibrato as a rule, so to me the answer to the whole problem is this: when
I play Russian or French music, like the Gliere Concerto or the
Saint-Saens Morceau, I use a little vibrato (from the diaphragm, as "jaw"
vibrato tends to become uncontrollable over time, according to teachers
I've had). While as a matter of personal taste, I agree with the
conventional wisdom that french horn vibrato is a little like adding sugar
to Frosted Flakes, I figure, when in Rome....