"Romance To The Pines"
Scott J. Chlebove
TAB or LH and/or RH fingerings would be a bonus). Free and
downloadable, of course would be most desired....otherwise, I just
might transcribe by ear. Anyone? btw, I've already aked Jeeves and did
a Google search...looked on a bunch of sheet music sites with no
success.
Sully in StL.
If you are referring to Romance de los Pinos by F. Moreno Torroba, the
score can be purchased at Guitar Solo Publications, 1411 Clement St.,
San Francisco, Calif., 94118-1020, #GSP-73. I doubt it is
downloadable on the web, but who knows . . .
Ed Wurster
"romance de los pinos"
powertab
Scott J. Chlebove
http://alt.venus.co.uk/weed/music/classtab/welcome.htm
I may just transcribe it to standard notation as an exercise.
chle...@enter.net (Scott J. Chlebove) wrote in message news:<6a4d6da2.04012...@posting.google.com>...
Matanya Ophee
>Of course, just after I posted, I found a TAB version fere...
>
>http://alt.venus.co.uk/weed/music/classtab/welcome.htm
>
>I may just transcribe it to standard notation as an exercise.
Or you can buy the printed edition which will be a lot easier. Thyere
are two editions of it, one published by Opera Tres and one by Guitar
Solo.
Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH 43235-1226
614-846-9517
fax: 614-846-9794
http://www.orphee.com
http://www.orphee.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
http://www.savageclassical.com/rmcg/album-rmcg/album.html
William Jennings
"Matanya Ophee" <m.o...@orphee.com> wrote in message
news:ijcb10pplfu2jrgam...@4ax.com...
> chle...@enter.net (Scott J. Chlebove) wrote:
>
> >Of course, just after I posted, I found a TAB version fere...
> >
> >http://alt.venus.co.uk/weed/music/classtab/welcome.htm
> >
> >I may just transcribe it to standard notation as an exercise.
>
> Or you can buy the printed edition which will be a lot easier. Thyere
> are two editions of it, one published by Opera Tres and one by Guitar
> Solo.
And there's Segovia's hand copy, fingered as he recorded it..........
floating about. :-)
Just depends what key you want to play it in. You can adjust the 6th.
string ya' know.
Who know's on what web site that may appear next? Have you checked the
French List?
Hugs,
Che'
RVL
Richard L
On 26 Jan 2004 11:55:23 -0800, chle...@enter.net (Scott J. Chlebove)
wrote:
>I'm looking for a copy of this in standard notation (with accompanying
Antuco
I have a copy of the hand written copy of Segovia's version of this piece !
I also have three other versions. The oldest version is in a group of pieces
called ALBUM No. 8 which I bought from Spanish Music Center Inc, Belvedere
Hotel NY, NY
I'm not sure, but I think they are no longer in business. This book was
published by
Ariston Music Inc. Also out of New York.
Matanya, maybe you knew this Company ???
The reason I point this out is that in that version that beautiful ending
with the B dim 7th
chord is not there. (F B D# A) I am sure that it was added by Segovia !
The hand written copy I got from a friend that got it from Parkening.
I play that version out of respect. Also Segovia was very good in writting
music and making it readable.
Antuco
"Matanya Ophee" <m.o...@orphee.com> wrote in message
news:ijcb10pplfu2jrgam...@4ax.com...
William Jennings
"Antuco" <ant...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:WtsRb.47618$lh3....@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>
> I have a copy of the hand written copy of Segovia's version of this
piece !
ending
> with the B dim 7th
> chord is not there. (F B D# A) I am sure that it was added by Segovia
!
> The hand written copy I got from a friend that got it from Parkening.
Yep. I have it and several other things in Segovia's manuscript which I
got from Jose Luis Gonzalez.
Che'
Scott J. Chlebove
Would like to check out the afforementioned link but I can't get to
it, can anyone assist?
Ed Wurster
Came across a sample recording of Romance to the Pines at:
http://www.classic-guitar.com/CD-online.html
Ed
Scott J. Chlebove
In case anyone else had a problem, I was able to get there with this....
http://dirk.meineke.free.fr/index.html
Thanks again, Byron!
Byron
"Scott J. Chlebove" <chle...@enter.net> wrote in message
news:6a4d6da2.0401...@posting.google.com...
> In case anyone else had a problem, I was able to get there with this....
> http://dirk.meineke.free.fr/index.html
> Thanks again, Byron!
Your welcome,
It's a great site. Sometimes I hang out there just sampling a bit here and
there.
If you like good guitar web sites, be sure to check out the "signature"
links from some of the RMCG regulars. Lots of good stories, articles, and
arrangements to be enjoyed.
Peace,
Byron
Scott J. Chlebove
Indeed, Ed!
This is the first and only version I've ever heard. This was enough
for me though, to truly appreciate it's beauty.
Ed Wurster
>>> I'm looking for a copy of this in standard notation (with
>>> accompanying TAB or LH and/or RH fingerings would be a bonus).
>>> Free and downloadable, of course would be most
>>> desired....otherwise, I just might transcribe by ear. Anyone? btw,
>>> I've already aked Jeeves and did a Google search...looked on a
>>> bunch of sheet music sites with no success.
>>
>> Came across a sample recording of Romance to the Pines at:
>>
>> http://www.classic-guitar.com/CD-online.html
>>
>>
>> Ed
>
> Indeed, Ed!
> This is the first and only version I've ever heard. This was enough
> for me though, to truly appreciate it's beauty.
The guitarist is Frank LaMonica from Austin.
Has anyone caught one of his performances at Borders?
May interest you to read more from his site.
Ed
Byron
Now that we've all found the piece, how would you all feel about printing it
out and making sort of a "class project" out of it. It (Romance In The
Pines) seems to be within reach and yet interesting to play and interpret.
Any takers?
Peace,
Byron
"Ed Wurster" <ea_wu...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:bNWdncC6Rc8...@comcast.com...
Ed Wurster
> Hey Folks,
> Now that we've all found the piece, how would you all feel about
> printing it out and making sort of a "class project" out of it. It
> (Romance In The Pines) seems to be within reach and yet interesting
> to play and interpret. Any takers?
>
> Peace,
> Byron
>
Define "class project."
Ed
Aryeh Eller
"Byron" <byro...@adelphiaspamless.net> wrote:
> Hey Folks,
> Now that we've all found the piece, how would you all feel about printing it
> out and making sort of a "class project" out of it. It (Romance In The
> Pines) seems to be within reach and yet interesting to play and interpret.
> Any takers?
>
> Peace,
> Byron
>
>
Are you saying that we should post our individual mp3 recordings of it
and get some constructive (and destructive) criticism going? I'm game
and all for it but the piece is copyrighted and I know there's a lot of
people on this NG who aren't too keen about posting recordings of
copyrighted works on the internet without permission.
--
Aryeh Eller
John Wasak
> Byron wrote:
> > making sort of a "class project" out of it.
>
>
> Ed
>
Dissecting a frog.
jw
Ed Wurster
Is that fair use?
Ed
Ed Wurster
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice, but I would say that no
more than 10% or a maximum of 30 seconds can be used for teaching or
critical purpose.
Greg M Silverman
Ed Wurster wrote:
ask the frog
gms--
Aryeh Eller
"Ed Wurster" <ea_wu...@comcast.net> wrote:
Well then this piece is definitely out of the question as I suspected.
By the way, I was just wondering about the NAXOS record co. site - in
the past one could only listen to 30% of a copyrighted work like Ed
mentions here but now if you go there you can listen to many copyrighted
works in their entirety. I wonder how they're getting around the
copyright issue - I assume that since it's their recordings they can do
whatever they want with them but it is strange that Naxos never offered
a copyrighted work to listen to in its entirety until recently.
Byron
and discuss our impressions, difficulties, or perhaps even enjoyments.
I should have explained more fully that I was speaking using what I have
always presumed were legal transcriptions for personal educational purposes
and discussing the process among others who have perhaps done the same. I
certainly meant no harm.
Back into full lurk mode.
Peace,
Byron
"Ed Wurster" <ea_wu...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:cOCdnWsNJrL...@comcast.com...
Aryeh Eller
"Byron" <byro...@adelphiaspamless.net> wrote:
> I was suggesting that we work through the .pdf as presented on Dirks page
> and discuss our impressions, difficulties, or perhaps even enjoyments.
> I should have explained more fully that I was speaking using what I have
> always presumed were legal transcriptions for personal educational purposes
> and discussing the process among others who have perhaps done the same. I
> certainly meant no harm.
> Back into full lurk mode.
>
> Peace,
> Byron
>
>
>
>
In that case why don't we just discuss a legit printed version of the
piece? I have the GSP edition edited by Jim Ferguson and I think an
older version of it too.
If it's copyrighted and it's on that site or any other than it's illegal
as many in this NG will tell you. You want to discuss a piece? Pick a
printed edition that you own.
Byron
(Sorry Larry, I needed to borrow one.)
I had no intention of starting another copyright thread where the intentions
of "educational use" are debated ad nauseam (obligatory Latin phrase).
It's still a good idea though (It has been a good idea every time some well
intentioned member suggests it). I was only using that piece as some
interest had already been generated and it seemed accessible ( I mean that
musically, not under the rights and privileges of US and International
law.).
Perhaps another piece will present itself. Perhaps not.
Peace,
Byron
p.s. I sometimes miss Snoops. It was a good "on air" personality. Has
nothing to do with this thread, but I've never understood why you relented.
I felt a simple: I am Snoops and I am Aryeh would have been sufficient
(Think Bob/Rib). Although, I admit I skipped the end of that debate, but
when the smoke cleared ...Snoops was gone. Oh well. None of my business.
"Aryeh Eller" <bandon...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bandoneon1800-797...@nycmny-nntp-rdr-03-ge1.rdc-nyc.rr.c
om...
Aryeh Eller
"Byron" <byro...@adelphiaspamless.net> wrote:
> Sigh,
> (Sorry Larry, I needed to borrow one.)
> I had no intention of starting another copyright thread where the intentions
> of "educational use" are debated ad nauseam (obligatory Latin phrase).
> It's still a good idea though (It has been a good idea every time some well
> intentioned member suggests it). I was only using that piece as some
> interest had already been generated and it seemed accessible ( I mean that
> musically, not under the rights and privileges of US and International
> law.).
> Perhaps another piece will present itself. Perhaps not.
>
> Peace,
> Byron
>
Sorry Byron, but I don't want to offend anybody here adamant about
copyright law - We can still discuss this piece, why don't you buy it?
It can't be more than a few dollars. Then we can discuss it. Who says
the one on Dirk's guitar page is accurate anyway?
> p.s. I sometimes miss Snoops. It was a good "on air" personality. Has
> nothing to do with this thread, but I've never understood why you relented.
> I felt a simple: I am Snoops and I am Aryeh would have been sufficient
> (Think Bob/Rib). Although, I admit I skipped the end of that debate, but
> when the smoke cleared ...Snoops was gone. Oh well. None of my business.
Well I had no choice in the matter, I was exposed and unmasked, in a
matter of speaking - you can't hide your NNTP posting # with your IP
address so a good sleuth (like JW) can figure out who you are under a
screenname(s). You might want to check the Google archives on that
thread to see exactly what happened to me if you're interested...
I'm glad you liked Snoops, I miss him too :-) You know some people on
another forum were asking for another screenname of mine recently that I
made disappear - there's something to a screenname, at least one with a
nice "on air" personality as you graciously describe it.
Best to you,
John Wasak
[snip]
> address so a good sleuth (like JW) can figure out who you are under a
> screenname(s).
Actually, I owe it all to my Sherlock Holmes cap and cape, and most
especially, to my big, big magnifying glass
jw
Byron
I agree about the offending others part. I'm working through some Sagreras
studies in the 1-3 book, if I come across anything that looks particularly
interesting maybe I'll try this again. Most everyone probably already has
that book, and any that don't would probably benefit from acquiring it.
Peace and Regards,
Byron
"Aryeh Eller" <bandon...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bandoneon1800-F61...@nyctyp02-ge0.rdc-nyc.rr.com...
>
> Sorry Byron, but I don't want to offend anybody here adamant about
> copyright law - We can still discuss this piece, why don't you buy it?
> It can't be more than a few dollars. Then we can discuss it. Who says
> the one on Dirk's guitar page is accurate anyway?
>
>
Richard Yates
> and get some constructive (and destructive) criticism going? I'm game
> and all for it but the piece is copyrighted and I know there's a lot of
> people on this NG who aren't too keen about posting recordings of
Over four years ago a similar project was proposed here. Larry Deack
generously used his own money to buy the music for about ten people. It all
kind of faded away after a few weeks and no recordings were posted. If there
is interest in trying this again, I am willing to put the files on my
website.
Also, after the copyright objections the Moreno-Torroba piece, I offer for
consideration a new transcription of Elegie by Jules Massenet. It is short,
expressive, easy to memorize, and not very difficult. Check it out at:
http://www.yatesguitar.com/massenet/massenet.html
Richard Yates
Ed Wurster
> Well then this piece is definitely out of the question as I suspected.
>
> By the way, I was just wondering about the NAXOS record co. site - in
> the past one could only listen to 30% of a copyrighted work like Ed
> mentions here but now if you go there you can listen to many
> copyrighted works in their entirety. I wonder how they're getting
> around the copyright issue - I assume that since it's their
> recordings they can do whatever they want with them but it is strange
> that Naxos never offered a copyrighted work to listen to in its
> entirety until recently.
As I read up on copyright issues because of this thread, it occurred to me
that many of the restrictions that are in place mean I just won't go there,
I won't listen, and so on.
If someone posts a transcription or recording, then it is more likely I will
return, browse, and spend money on things that are not free.
One other thing -- I think you can not use more than 10% or 30 seconds,
whichever is less.
It would be easier to create something new, wouldn't it? I think that is a
class project that would mean more to the class.
Ed
Scott J. Chlebove
With all due respect to folks reading this who rely on the copyright
laws to protect their livlihood, I certainly feel that any use of
Dirk's work would definitely put Dirk in more jeopardy than any user.
Use of some copyrighted material for the purpose as suggested by Byron
would, IMHO, fall under the definition of "fair use", as I interpret
it. (albeit for a copyrighted piece of music). Now, would group use,
for a "class project", of Dirk's work constitute some violation of
copyright laws??? I think not, though, of course, I won't even have to
go so far as to say "some lawyer", because I'm sure some regular RMCG
reader/poster will take case against me...just for the fun of it!
How sad our litigous(sp??) society has become. Case in point...my kids
stayed home Mon & Tue this week after a "dusting" of snow barely
covered our roads, now doubt due to the "liability" issue. My wife and
I went on about how, when we were kids...school wouldn't be cancelled
unless there was at least 6 inches of snow covering the roads. Yes,
God forbid anything happen on the way to or from school, but accidents
happen - certainly on school buses - probably for more reasons other
than a dusting of snow covering the road surface. btw, Tuesday night
brought 5+ inches and a third day off for the kids. This becomes an
issue for the kids later on in the year when they need to make up days
missed on account of "snow days". Public school kids also need to
factor in days missed due to strikes that occurred earlier in the
year. This invariably pushes out their "last day of school" - not a
good thing , especially for seniors that need to get on with the next
phase of their lives.
Legal protection IS necessary in this and any society, though in our's
I too often see the result of it's perversion. This is due to none
other than the GREED factor.
O.K., I'll be careful as I step down off of my soapbox!
That having been said ... I would whole-heartedly participate with
you, Byron.
Byron
A lot of what you say makes sense and I would never willfully try to take
what was someone else's. Dirks site has been suggested here so many times
with no mention of copyright violations that I ran right past the issue
without looking. And for that I apologize.
Peace,
Byron
"Scott J. Chlebove" <chle...@enter.net> wrote in message
news:6a4d6da2.04013...@posting.google.com...
> With all due respect to folks reading this who rely on the copyright
> laws to protect their livlihood,> O.K., I'll be careful as I step down off
of my soapbox!
>
>
Byron
started using one of your Chopin preludes. Might be the same occasion as
the one you mention.
I'm definitely interested, and will print it out and work through it
regardless of whether it turns into a full blown group project. Thanks
again,
Byron
"Richard Yates" <ric...@yatesguitar.com> wrote in message
news:101nk2c...@corp.supernews.com...
> Over four years ago a similar project was proposed here. Larry Deack
> generously used his own money to buy the music for about ten people.
>
>
Scott J. Chlebove
I don't even think the idea of posting mp3 recordings of a composer's
work is against any copyright laws, (unless it's done for some type of
financial gain or if you'd be trying to lay claim to the fact that it
is your own). Byron definitely did not mention posting mp3s,
specifically, but rather suggested to anyone that is interested,
to..."work through the .pdf as presented on Dirks page and discuss our
impressions, difficulties, or perhaps even enjoyments". I don't see
how anyone could interpret that as being in violation of ANY law.
That is, unless you live in some educationally subversive, repressive
culture.
Aryeh Eller
Well I'm all for what you're saying- it sounds reasonable. But is it the
truth? Can someone who's familiar with copyright laws please clarify?
Thanks.
Larry Deack
> Well I'm all for what you're saying- it sounds reasonable. But is it the
> truth? Can someone who's familiar with copyright laws please clarify?
> Thanks.
It's times like these that I wish someone like Mark Teicholz posted to RMCG.
Like it says here he has his J.D. from the Boalt School of Law at the
University of California at Berkeley:
http://www.sfcm.edu/faculty/teicholz.aspx
I met him when he played here for his GFA tour. Really nice guy, great
player and a voracious sight reader. I wonder if he's up on his copyright
law?
Scott J. Chlebove
Dang, maybe someone privy to his e-mail address could direct him to
this thread and ask his to render an opinion.
Anyone....anyone....Bueller?
William Jennings
>
> Well I'm all for what you're saying- it sounds reasonable. But is it
the
> truth? Can someone who's familiar with copyright laws please clarify?
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Aryeh Eller
Almost anything to avoid facing the music. There is no need to see the
whole printed copy. Discussing two consecutive measures in detail is
more than most here could handle provided the right questions were ask.
I'm never interested in hearing someone say why a thing can't be done.
One measure at a time can be facinating if you have
creative ways of looking at things. In the first place it's not a
romance to the pines, it's an island with pine trees. Ever heard
the hushed sound of the breeze, whisper with a sighing sound through
pine trees? This is a sad breeze through the pines on Isa de los Pinos
or the Costa de los Pinos, in the Balearic, Islands of Mallorca. You
can also hear the "Burgalesa" or Baden Powell's "Solitario" here.
It commences with an A maj. chord stopped with a bar in the second
position.....
More said about this piece in one paragraph than the entire thread!
Che'
Aryeh Eller
"William Jennings" <jou...@texas.net> wrote:
> "Aryeh Eller" <bandon...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bandoneon1800-C9E...@nycmny-nntp-rdr-03-ge1.rdc-nyc.rr.com
> ...
>
> >
> > Well I'm all for what you're saying- it sounds reasonable. But is it
> the
> > truth? Can someone who's familiar with copyright laws please clarify?
> > Thanks.
> >
> > --
> > Aryeh Eller
>
> Almost anything to avoid facing the music. There is no need to see the
> whole printed copy. Discussing two consecutive measures in detail is
> more than most here could handle provided the right questions were ask.
>
> I'm never interested in hearing someone say why a thing can't be done.
> One measure at a time can be facinating if you have
> creative ways of looking at things. In the first place it's not a
> romance to the pines, it's an island with pine trees. Ever heard
> the hushed sound of the breeze, whisper with a sighing sound through
> pine trees? This is a sad breeze through the pines on Isa de los Pinos
> or the Costa de los Pinos, in the Balearic, Islands of Mallorca.
Nice imagery, it is a sad piece - marked Largo it moves in one and
2/3rds of a measure using 7 melodic notes and a delicate mordent (making
9 notes) from a A Maj. chord stopped with a Bar II to aching C# minor
chord heard to full effect in 4th postion.
Apparently Segovia recorded the piece twice, once in 1961 where it was
originally called Romance de los Pinos but in his later 1969 recording
Castles of Spain it was named Montemayor after the Spanish castle. The
subtitle of the piece was Contemplacion. Don't know if the name change
changes the mood or intent of the piece or anything. There's a few
changes in the music between both versions. I have the later Montemayor
one and I can't find my earlier one so I can't say for sure what they
are. Jim Ferguson in his preface to Vol. 1 of the GSP edition talks a
bit about the differences.
> You can also hear the "Burgalesa" or Baden Powell's "Solitario" here.
I don't think I've heard that Baden piece but Burgalesa, yes there's
striking similarities between the two - the way they both go into a
major chord after their first sections - Romance starts in A but then
goes into C Maj while Burgalesa begins in F# (or E like Segovia plays
it) and then goes into D (or C like Segovia) Thes section of parallel
6ths in mm. 17 of Romance dlP is very similar to the middle of Burgalesa.
I always wondered why Segovia played Burgalesa in E when it's published
in the Schott edition in F#, perhaps because to show a key-similarity to
Romance dlP or vice-versa. I'm not sure which piece he played first but
maybe after becoming well acquainted with one and then seeing the
similarities in the other he felt that both should contain chords of the
same key.
>
> It commences with an A maj. chord stopped with a bar in the second
> position.....
You're commencing already? The later 1969 version Montemayor shouldn't
be played with a Bar II since it commences with an E harmonic on the
12th fret, better fingers 2 & 3.
>
> More said about this piece in one paragraph than the entire thread!
Make it a few more paragraphs.
REA'
> Che'
William Jennings
They seem to fit together well...... in fact sometimes I play the
Romance once through and go to the Burgalesa
with the repeat then finsh with a recap of Romance. Yes, totally
wrong, but there are a few friends that don't
want you to stop their private concerts. If they need to open a vein
and suffer the Powell "Solitario" seems to
work. I like to play El Gato (New Version) after those ladykillers.
It gives the listener a false sense of security
so I can come back and cut deeper with Falla's Homenaje "Le Tombeau de
Claude Debussy", perhaps a tad more
flamenco than he might approve... and legato. :-)
>
> I always wondered why Segovia played Burgalesa in E when it's
published
> in the Schott edition in F#, perhaps because to show a key-similarity
to
> Romance dlP or vice-versa.
Who cares what Segovia throught now????? I'm playing this, forget that
old man. No disrespect intended but I will not pay rent living in his
shadow.
I'm not sure which piece he played first but
> maybe after becoming well acquainted with one and then seeing the
> similarities in the other he felt that both should contain chords of
the
> same key.
Works for me also. :-)
> >
> > It commences with an A maj. chord stopped with a bar in the second
> > position.....
>
> You're commencing already?
Fact is I commenced and finished in 1979 as I recall. I'm not the
waitting kind. :-(
The later 1969 version Montemayor shouldn't
> be played with a Bar II since it commences with an E harmonic on the
> 12th fret, better fingers 2 & 3.
I elected to play the Romance version, Bar II. Yes, such a delicate
mordent as it breaths, that sigh in the breeze, just outside
my bedroom window.
> >
> > More said about this piece in one paragraph than the entire thread!
>
> Make it a few more paragraphs.
>
You know of course we, you and I, play much of the same music.
Hell, we can't agree on which notes to start with.. We can't get
through the first measure. See what I mean?
It's just a matter of utter conviction in our finger tips however it's
played.
You are going too fast. We need to begin with the image before we place
the hands on the guitar. That silent image in our mind to evoke the
tone of Torroba. There are questions to consider, important questions.
I wait unitl I can see a clear image
of the casita, the surroundings and just hear the small lapping of
water in this cove. These questions I have answered for myself:
1. Where do I first put my fingers of the right hand before starting
this dream? Where sits the thumb? If you can't tell me this instant....
you don't know. [ Follow me here?] How do I articulate this chord?
What soundscape am I evoking as I draw near that island where the story
lies? I can smell the saltly sea air now, it's rather humid with a wisp
of the scent of white
ginger.... Hey, this is my dream and there are no rules. My story takes
place in that little casita near the beach with a small
boat tied to the shore. There is a full moon but it is cloudy, misty
night, the waters are calm. I see a light through a curtained window
that moves a bit with the breeze. The harmonic anaylsis has been
completed before starting this song. The only thing of impotance now is
that this guitar articulates this poetic story clearly..... fill in the
blanks yourself. That A maj. chord.... I lift and release with these
the fingers from the guitar allowing it to escape so that it flows
across the landscape... like the breeze.
2. Where and how are the fingers placed of the left hand? Stopping what
notes, where? [ Same thing.... , Where is the elbow?] I know, easy
question.... but I want to know. I'm as attentive to this as to the
slightest expression of a lover's face.
3. What takes place here while the bar is in place..... I need to know
the exact nano second when I can lift this bar and where
am I going... exactly where and how is the best, quickest way to get
there smoothly so that you don't detect that movement
by anything other than sight.
I'm the sort that plans every breath until I own it..... got to, rust
never sleeps in a maritime environment.
Forward motion is of utmost importance in this composition, so we can
rest in mid-air. Yes, I like rushing some of the chords
so they can just hang there. I know the effect this has on the
unsuspecting listener..... this is not a recording. This is the guitar,
an inanimate object, coming to life. The bittersweet is best when it's
not sticky, it catches you off guard....
I study the details to what I call the subatomic level ( Luteman doesn't
like my phyics ) it has Special Relativity for me, it's my guitar! :-)
Che'
John Wasak
news:lrudnXdfEOg...@texas.net...
[snip]
> In the first place it's not a
> romance to the pines, it's an island with pine trees. Ever heard
> the hushed sound of the breeze, whisper with a sighing sound through
> pine trees? This is a sad breeze through the pines on Isa de los Pinos
> or the Costa de los Pinos, in the Balearic, Islands of Mallorca. You
> can also hear the "Burgalesa" or Baden Powell's "Solitario" here.
>
> It commences with an A maj. chord stopped with a bar in the second
> position.....
>
> More said about this piece in one paragraph than the entire thread!
>
> Che'
>
Here's more.
In the
scented
sounding pines,
the whispering pines,
rising,
like the tides,
rising up
through which
no moon,
though
only
one star
shines.
Yet, that's
just enough
to get inside.
jw
Aryeh Eller
"John Wasak" <mr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
Is that Haiku? Very nice.. it must be yours 'cause Google turned up
nada. :)
William Jennings
"John Wasak" <mr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:x_iTb.6123$jH6....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
But for my purposes this is too abstract. Speaking only for myself, I
need a strong vivid image. An image I can see in my minds eye all at
once. I've found this so important to my working that I will pick a
painting that allows me to use it for this purpose. I learn everything
about the painting or make a story up myself. I will usually have a few
words or more that are
key for me in a composition. This gives me a pre-planned method to
displace whatever may be going on around me an I
can become completely involved with the music all at once. A way of
finding public solitude that I've developed for myself.
You may recall a thread that appeared here some four years ago " What do
you think about while playing/performing"?
I commented that it was the saddest post I had ever read. It was for
these reasons an it keeps the "me" out of the way.
I'm not asking myself questions while I'm playing. I'm not concerned
that for some reason she has her legs crossed too high or why someone
may quitely remark on whatever..... the "I" is highly engaged with the
planned image displacing the ordinary.
At a party some years back a young lady walked across the living room
naked. I seemed to know she was naked but it didn't distract me... the
image saved me. She was a little miffed that no one took much notice of
her. I often hum very quitely,
no one can hear and this is what keeps me focused. Not great
concentration except in some difficult parts, not mindfullness
just attentiveness to my images and what I've carefully instilled in
myself. The very strong image helps keep me from observing myself an
attentive to the work. Here's more on that idea:
http://www.theatrgroup.com/methodI/
I say, whatever gets you through the night. :-) I do some other things
but I damned sure wouldn't mention them here. They are too easy to
become objects of comedy but it seems to work for me. Once I decide on
an image I never change it unless I change something in the music, a
fingering or a phrase. In that case I vividly repair my image so I have
no problem remembering.
Who knows what people think about while playing. I distinguish a
difference between playing and practice. In practice I am highly self
observant. In playing I don't concern myself with technique unless it's
a major nasty. Of course in some things there are lots of nasties so
everything is imaged on those tiny areas to relax.
Che'
John Wasak
om...
> In article <x_iTb.6123$jH6....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
> "John Wasak" <mr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
> Is that Haiku? Very nice.. it must be yours 'cause Google turned up
> nada. :)
>
> --
> Aryeh Eller
>
Well, it's not Haiku in its form but maybe in sensibility. And yes, 'tis
mine. ;-)
jw
Scott J. Chlebove
I have truly appreciated your contributions to this post!!! I agree
wholeheartedly with your statement about "facing the music" and the
idea that much fascinating discovery can be made in one and two bars
of a piece. There is too much else in life that is approached with
breakneck speed and the "gotta get it done" attitude, your point is a
breath of fresh air.
I have taken this idea to heart in the development of my own
repertoire, after discovering guitarprinciples.com and the concepts of
S-L-O-W & No Tempo & microscopic practicing and posing. Last year I'd
hoped to learn 6 pieces, playing each effortlessly, masterfully,
accurately, expressively and fluidly all while minimizing any tension.
Well, I've finally gotten half-way there - 3 pieces.
None too difficult (the peices, that is) - I consider myself a
beginner, after being a hack for a number of years. Now I can actually
play whole pieces of music!!! I have also become aware that the
mastery will be an ongoing thing for me, as I'm sure it is with
everyone.
I have such a need to learn as much as I can about the piece itself -
histiorically speaking and about its origin, beacuse I feel I can
relate to the music so much better knowing these details. You make
some great points. Thank you.
Aryeh Eller
chle...@enter.net (Scott J. Chlebove) wrote:
Well there you have it, Bravo Che' !!
Scott's right, it was an insightful post and very poetic, I can almost
hear you play it - or at least envision the sound and its setting...
(Yo Scott - Didn't you like anything I said? Oh well...let me look at
the score again and see if I can find any poetic thoughts myself)
REA'
William Jennings
> Mr. Jennings :
Please note: In future post please refer to me as; Sir Don Che'
Petadoggy Esq. Thank you.
>
> I have truly appreciated your contributions to this post!!! I agree
> wholeheartedly with your statement about "facing the music" and the
> idea that much fascinating discovery can be made in one and two bars
> of a piece. There is too much else in life that is approached with
> breakneck speed and the "gotta get it done" attitude, your point is a
> breath of fresh air.
Sooner or later it's fish or cut bait. This whole trick in this
business is finding ways to make the work more interesting
to ourselves. The hours spent with the music/guitar seem to fly by
when your highly engaged with the details. The most
important thing is finding a good teacher so you don't learn bad
habits that are limiting.
I'm reminded right now to suggest to you. Yes, it's most excellent to
play very slow trying never to make an error.....
but try and make the changes (movements) quick... got that? This will
make a great difference but don't over stress it.
Make the chord shapes and other fingerings in mid-air as you go to them.
It's important to know what finger must come
away first and which one may need to linger. It may not require putting
all the next fingers down at the same exact time.
For these things you need a very good, alert teacher. A sleepy teacher
is not worth having.
>
> I have taken this idea to heart in the development of my own
> repertoire, after discovering guitarprinciples.com and the concepts of
> S-L-O-W & No Tempo & microscopic practicing and posing. Last year I'd
> hoped to learn 6 pieces, playing each effortlessly, masterfully,
> accurately, expressively and fluidly all while minimizing any tension.
> Well, I've finally gotten half-way there - 3 pieces.
I hope you have a good teacher. Slow is fast, because if you learn it
right/solid the first time you are
miles ahead of the average duffer. It's paying yourself, like money in
the bank.
>
> I have such a need to learn as much as I can about the piece itself -
> histiorically speaking and about its origin, beacuse I feel I can
> relate to the music so much better knowing these details. You make
> some great points. Thank you.
Keep in mind, I made most of that imaging up but those are the exact
images I use in that piece. I always think
about my Brazilian girlfriend Carmen when I play that piece. Doing
this makes the song very personal and the sound autobiographical.
It's using your imagination to find something behind the notes. Three
small pieces played well is better than six played poorly any day.
Glad you found it useful. Too bad we got hung up on the first measure
but that's life on RMCG.
Sir Don Che' Petadoggy Esq
William Jennings
> Scott's right, it was an insightful post and very poetic, I can almost
> hear you play it - or at least envision the sound and its setting...
>
> (Yo Scott - Didn't you like anything I said? Oh well...let me look at
> the score again and see if I can find any poetic thoughts myself)
It's just too bad we are so difficult we can never get anything done.
One small Sor study of 16 measures done with imigination and great
detail could work wonders here. I play some tought, difficult stuff but
I love those little studies designed by Sor for the guitar. Any time
spent discussing them and their assorted details is never wasted.
Why don't you discuss the phrase points and dynamics of the first
phrase. Others could take on a measure of fingerings at a time.
Explaining the why's and hows of each fingering. Everyone need not
finger it exactly the same but they ought to have
a reason for doing it differently.
Then again. I sorts' like causing havoc and mayham with the slackers.
:-)
Che'
Carlos Barrientos
<jou...@texas.net> wrote:
>
>"Scott J. Chlebove" <chle...@enter.net> wrote in message
>news:6a4d6da2.04020...@posting.google.com...
> I'm reminded right now to suggest to you. Yes, it's most excellent to
>play very slow trying never to make an error.....
> but try and make the changes (movements) quick... got that? This will
>make a great difference but don't over stress it.
>Make the chord shapes and other fingerings in mid-air as you go to them.
>It's important to know what finger must come
>away first and which one may need to linger. It may not require putting
>all the next fingers down at the same exact time.
>For these things you need a very good, alert teacher. A sleepy teacher
>is not worth having.
I rise and join this thread at this point to make a procedural
addendum to Mssr. Jennings indications.
I would often have my students take any two chord shapes and
concentrate on watching each finger (1,2,3,4) at a time as it went
from one place to the next, when Each finger was mastered, THEN look
to the same activity with every combination of two fingers (1,2),
(1,3) (1,4) (2,3) (2,4) (3,4). On to combinations of three fingers and
eventually 4. This seems to smooth out the sounds as you shift from
shape to shape.
I found I came away with a great deal of musicality and technique
after assiduously following this procedure and I'm sure my listeners
profited from the effort.
> Keep in mind, I made most of that imaging up but those are the exact
>images I use in that piece. I always think
> about my Brazilian girlfriend Carmen when I play that piece. Doing
>this makes the song very personal and the sound autobiographical.
>It's using your imagination to find something behind the notes. Three
>small pieces played well is better than six played poorly any day.
The following is an excerpt from an essay for my students. Title?
How To Become a Guitar God (c) 1990 Carlos Barrientos
"All vague notions must fall before a pupil can call himself a
master." Bruce Lee in the Tao of Jeet Kune Do
When a musician is learning a piece of music the following
suggestions seem to help:
1) Select a piece of music that you really enjoy.
As obvious as this first step is, we often find ourselves
working on a piece of music for reasons that involve everything but
the love for the music at hand. For example: So - and - so who is
great plays this, so I will be great if I play this too! You should
love the piece of music you are working on as you will spend a great
deal of time with it. These choices reflect your individual
personality, your personal aesthetic and will tell your listeners what
you consider beautiful and meaningful, so THINK very carefully about
what part of you is being shared. Thoughtful choices allow the
listener to peer into your mind and let the listener share a common
sensory and emotional experience with the performer. Honest, artistic
self disclosure is not easy... Take heart, though, brave performer;
for within that courageous gesture live the roots of great artistry.
2) If the piece of music you have selected has a lyric, get
intimate with it, sing it, memorize it, absorb it, make it yours...
Most Western music is goal oriented, or narrative in
structure, consisting of a series of events that create listener
expectations as to "where the music is going." Perhaps we should begin
by paying close attention to the quotation by one of the greatest and
most controversial German writers of the 19th century, Heinrich Heine:
"When words leave off, music begins." This is something to pay careful
attention to as Schubert, Schumann, Mendelssohn, Liszt, Brahms,
Wagner, and Hugo Wolf all wrote music to Heine's lyrics.
A lyric tells you what the song is about and the mental
pictures this lyric creates will help your imagination when it is
searching for abstract ideas to portray in sound as the song
progresses. The marriage between lyric and music can best be described
as thoughts amplified by the emotions that sounds evoke.
In many ways a lyric is a script, and we might do well by
examining the precepts set forth by the Russian actor, producer, and
theoretician Konstantin Stanislavsky. The main goal of the acting
technique developed by Stanislavsky was to bring 'stage realism' to
the theater. He thought that this could be achieved by teaching actors
to 'get under the skin' of a character, and not simply copy life but
"penetrate into the soul of a part." This acting approach that enters
the inner thoughts and feelings of the character to be portrayed is
known as method acting. It is usually contrasted with the
mechanical-external system of acting, in which the mastery of
technique is considered paramount.
In method acting, the actor works by improvisation and
emotional exercises to achieve a close identification with the
character being played. Thus, the Stanislavsky Method established that
psychology, not just diction, become the foundation of the actor's
art. Adapting elements of this acting method to any musical
performance, particularly to the process of improvisation, can be very
revealing.
Stanislavsky's approach to acting is in two parts: work on the
self and work on the role. In the first area he stressed the need for
freeing spontaneous impulses, for responding to imaginative stimuli,
for concentrating attention, and for using personal experience and
sense memory as the basis for portraying character. Perhaps for the
musician this means setting free what 20th-century Spain's most
illustrious poet and dramatist, Federico Garcia-Lorca calls,
"duende." This is a word that is used to describe the achievement of a
truly sublime and transcendent performance state in the
Flamenco/Andalusian gypsy dance and music traditions. Simply put, this
is a moment when a performer plays way above their range of technical
abilities as if by a spirit possessed. Athletes often call this moment
"being in the zone" and it occurs only in a positive and confident
performer prepared to give his all to the work at hand.
Work on the role stressed a full understanding of the world of
the character within the play. The character's needs, wants, and
habits were to be communicated by a system of physical actions. One of
the best sources for this precious information may be found in the
text. Ask yourself: "Why am I attracted to this song? What does the
lyric sound like as interpreted by the composer's choices of musical
materials? What are my own musical ideas about the song's subject
matter over the same set of changes and what, if anything, do the
composer and I have in common and how do we differ?" This is the meat
and potatoes of your interpretive technique, you must be able to
master the technical intricacies of the music before you - form,
melody, harmony, rhythm, text, dynamics, etc. This is the foundation
upon which you will base your interpretation, so KNOW ALL THE MUSIC,
and that includes the text or lyric.
The benefit of a musical approach that synthesizes technical
mastery with soulful interpretation and presents a clear and informed
mental picture is of great benefit to the performer and a greater
benefit to the listeners who profit from the intelligent presentation
of a musical composition. Applying this approach requires the
actors/musicians to clearly determine the motivation behind the
selection of their musical materials and probe deeply into the
psychological roots of their own character to discover, and convey the
deeper truth that is found upon mastering the technical aspects of the
composition.
These moments of studious reflection will be invaluable to you
later when in the midst of the revelatory self - disclosing process of
performing before an audience.
====================================================
Have you ever noticed that when someone says they'll give you "a penny
for your thoughts?" and you give them "your two cents worth". Where
did the other penny go?
Be Well!!!
Carlos Barrientos
"mailto:ca...@sprintmail.com"
Phone: (229)-438-1087
La Patrie Motif: (Goes Anywhere and Everywhere with me), Jasmine TC28C by Takamine,
Ken Miller Classical and Modified Washburn J6S, Ibanez RT450, 1927 National Duolian.
(www.kenmillerguitars.com)
Angelo Gilardino
"Carlos Barrientos" <ca...@sprintmail.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:qihu10he405d5kc7m...@4ax.com...
> 2) If the piece of music you have selected has a lyric, get
> intimate with it, sing it, memorize it, absorb it, make it yours...
> Most Western music is goal oriented, or narrative in
> structure, consisting of a series of events that create listener
> expectations as to "where the music is going."
"Romance de los pinos" has lyrics. It is a lied for voice and guitar.
AG
William Jennings
Che'
"Carlos Barrientos" <ca...@sprintmail.com> wrote in message
news:qihu10he405d5kc7m...@4ax.com...
Carlos Barrientos
I get so nervous when you give out a compliment...
I'm sitting here gigling and knowing I better enjoy this feeling, for
it will be brief...
So, for now, Thanx. I hope to amplify this essay and have it become a
pamphlet them maybe a book...
Thanx... sencilla y sinceramente...
Carlos
On Tue, 3 Feb 2004 01:39:24 -0600, "William Jennings"
Carlos Barrientos
Buon Giorno!
My lack of knowledge exposed, I am not familiar with the piece in
question. I was just following a thread and sharing a technique for
memorization and internalizing ANY piece of music that a performer
would seek to bring to a stage in a performance. I am sure that
internalizing the lyrics would be of great value to a guitarist. To me
it's like hearing the music to "Ridi, Paggliacio" without the lyric,
lovely music, but with the lyric?
Amazing...
Va Bene Maestro...
carlos
Carlos Barrientos
Ed Wurster
> Well, it's not Haiku in its form but maybe in sensibility. And yes,
> 'tis mine. ;-)
I enjoyed reading it John.
This may not be the right part in this thread for a video, but I found
something interesting.
http://www.brethoag.com/pages/hire/video/torroba.htm
Ed
William Jennings
I call them like I see them. Early this morning as I was going to sleep
I was still thinking about it. There are only two things I would take
issue with, the title and "duende." In light of the entire post these
are only small issues. The most important thing was you sort of let it
all hang out, I like that. It's the longest and most informative post
you've made an it had that quality of urgency and ring of truth through
it.
This was priceless ""All vague notions must fall before a pupil can call
himself a
master." Bruce Lee in the Tao of Jeet Kune Do."
I objected to the title "How to Become a Guitar God" Who in the hell
wants to become a guitar God... really?
Think about it....... the paternity suites, that having to perform as
opposed to electing to play, several hundred others trying to get a cut
of the pie, low pay, the vagaries of constant travel, airlines,
airports, guitar transporting, rental cars, hotels, food and
all those playing up to you for an autograph, a copy of whatever,
questions an always having to be polite and maintaining an image. Not
for me, none of it. It's not like you can go to Paris, play, then kick
back and enjoy it or lay up in your hotel room with some exciting new
friend. Nope, you have to talk to the guitar people (like you know who)
give a master class or get on the next plane and fly across three time
zones to give another concert. Some people have a need to do that, many
so called movie stars have that need for a public following an it drives
them onward. Think about having to play the same 20 pieces
every night and just how shallow that public really is. Think about
having a really bad night and the next day reading what
"Joe who can barely play two compositions after 15 years", has to say
about you on RMCG. Exactly when was the last time you heard about or
knew the whereabouts of Baltazar Benitez? Last I heard, some five years
ago, he was very sick in London.
I'd change that title to "How to Master the Useless" enjoy your life and
see the world incognito. There are easier way to make money than
playing guitar that's for sure. Go back to 1982 -1998 and see where
most of the GFA winners are now? There
are great guitarist who have been around a long time that most here have
no idea exist. Maybe I'll put the wed site of one of them up later
today.... he does some new and very interesting things an I've never
heard his name mentioned here.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
Che'
"Carlos Barrientos" <ca...@sprintmail.com> wrote in message
news:35mu1094l79jh4tdm...@4ax.com...
Byron
Thanks for the perfect example of why I should never completely abandon a
thread.
Peace,
Byron
P.S. Carlos, I swear this got a bust of laughter out of me. Thanks.
"Carlos Barrientos" <ca...@sprintmail.com> wrote in message
news:35mu1094l79jh4tdm...@4ax.com...
Carlos Barrientos
Glad I gave you a laugh look in your e-mail box for a goodie!
Thanx!
Carlos Barrientos
"mailto:ca...@sprintmail.com"
Phone: (229)-438-1087
"This is not something you retire from.
It's your life. Writing songs and playing
is like breathing, you don't stop." Keith Richards
Scott J. Chlebove
in a prior message wrote.....
> Well there you have it, Bravo Che' !!
>
> Scott's right, it was an insightful post and very poetic, I can almost
> hear you play it - or at least envision the sound and its setting...
>
> (Yo Scott - Didn't you like anything I said? Oh well...let me look at
> the score again and see if I can find any poetic thoughts myself)
>
>
> REA'
Sorry, yes, I did appreciate your commentary as well, though I didn't
immediately cite it. Probably because your approach is more similar to
that which I am used to, being trained in business & technology, that
is, a more analytical, technical approach, whereas, the post I chose
to cite was more artistic, aesthetic, (though posessing analytical
elements, as well). I think we need to try to utilize as many
approaches and perspectives as possible along the way, on the journey
that, regardless of others' thoughts & feelings, is always uniquely
our own. - (pardon me if that sounded too much like Jack Handy!!!)
Carlos Barrientos
wrote:
>Carlos,
>
>I call them like I see them. Early this morning as I was going to sleep
>I was still thinking about it. There are only two things I would take
>issue with, the title and "duende." In light of the entire post these
>are only small issues. The most important thing was you sort of let it
>all hang out, I like that. It's the longest and most informative post
>you've made an it had that quality of urgency and ring of truth through
>it.
Thanx, Doc, sometimes... I risk and in this forum... it can be
dangerous. Downright frightening. Somehow it seemed appropriate,
scrunched up my courage and let 'er rip
Hope it helps...
>This was priceless ""All vague notions must fall before a pupil can call
>himself a
> master." Bruce Lee in the Tao of Jeet Kune Do."
>
>I objected to the title "How to Become a Guitar God" Who in the hell
>wants to become a guitar God... really?
You caught the irony? BRAVO!
I always presented it with a tongue firmly in cheek. Tee hee..
>Think about it....... the paternity suites, that having to perform as
>opposed to electing to play, several hundred others trying to get a cut
>of the pie, low pay, the vagaries of constant travel, airlines,
>airports, guitar transporting, rental cars, hotels, food and
>all those playing up to you for an autograph, a copy of whatever,
>questions an always having to be polite and maintaining an image. Not
>for me, none of it. It's not like you can go to Paris, play, then kick
>back and enjoy it or lay up in your hotel room with some exciting new
>friend. Nope, you have to talk to the guitar people (like you know who)
>give a master class or get on the next plane and fly across three time
>zones to give another concert. Some people have a need to do that, many
>so called movie stars have that need for a public following an it drives
>them onward. Think about having to play the same 20 pieces
>every night and just how shallow that public really is. Think about
>having a really bad night and the next day reading what
>"Joe who can barely play two compositions after 15 years", has to say
>about you on RMCG.
Yup, s'all true...
>Exactly when was the last time you heard about or
>knew the whereabouts of Baltazar Benitez? Last I heard, some five years
>ago, he was very sick in London.
Shame, isn't it?
>I'd change that title to "How to Master the Useless" enjoy your life and
>see the world incognito. There are easier way to make money than
>playing guitar that's for sure. Go back to 1982 -1998 and see where
>most of the GFA winners are now? There
>are great guitarist who have been around a long time that most here have
>no idea exist. Maybe I'll put the wed site of one of them up later
>today.... he does some new and very interesting things an I've never
>heard his name mentioned here.
Do it!
>Just my thoughts on the matter.
>
>Che'
KOK. Glad it made you feel good. I like that, mostly... Like this old
woman told me in her wise 26 year old Georgia accent, "Ain't nuthin'
to it but do do it!" Wisdom comes from the most unlikely sources,
don't it?
(;-)
"This is not something you retire from.
John Wasak
news:hNadnY6CivT...@comcast.com...
> John Wasak wrote:
> > Well, it's not Haiku in its form but maybe in sensibility. And yes,
> > 'tis mine. ;-)
>
> I enjoyed reading it John.
>
Thanks, Ed. (haven't gotten around to this video you mention here yet.)
jw
Scott J. Chlebove
Angelo (or anyone else, for that matter)... can you direct me
somewhere that I could read these lyrics???
Angelo Gilardino
"Scott J. Chlebove" <chle...@enter.net> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:6a4d6da2.04020...@posting.google.com...
> "Angelo Gilardino" <angelog...@tin.it> wrote in message
news:<pgITb.182428$VW.74...@news3.tin.it>...
> > "Romance de los pinos" has lyrics. It is a lied for voice and guitar.
> >
> > AG
>
> Angelo (or anyone else, for that matter)... can you direct me
> somewhere that I could read these lyrics???
This lied is included in the cycle entitled "Siete Canciones Españolas"
published by Ediciones Musicales on 1961.
I guess it is an out of print publication. I could ask the son of the
composer a permission to reproduce here the text.
AG
Scott J. Chlebove
That'd be GREAT! Please do inquire. I'll await your response.
Thank you.
William D Clinger
> consideration a new transcription of Elegie by Jules Massenet. It is short,
> expressive, easy to memorize, and not very difficult. Check it out at:
>
> http://www.yatesguitar.com/massenet/massenet.html
>
> Richard Yates
Thank you, Richard. Can you tell us more about the piece? Opus and
number? Original key? For what instruments was it written?
From a quick web search, I'm guessing it's a song, Op 10 Nr 1 or Nr 4,
writtten in 1894 for voice and cello. But it also looks like Massenet
wrote several other pieces with the same title, or that these songs
have been transcribed for many other combinations of instruments.
Will
Richard Yates
> number? Original key? For what instruments was it written?
>
> From a quick web search, I'm guessing it's a song, Op 10 Nr 1 or Nr 4,
> writtten in 1894 for voice and cello. But it also looks like Massenet
> wrote several other pieces with the same title, or that these songs
> have been transcribed for many other combinations of instruments.
Massenet seems to have recycled it a few times. I have found it as Op. 10
Nr. 5 'Melodie' for solo piano (not cello). It is also in his incidental
music for the play Erynnies where it is titled Elégie, and another version
is a song for voice. He probably also did make a cello version - it is well
suited to it. Joshua Bell recorded it as violin and piano.
The Op. 10, Nr. 5 version is in E minor.
Richard
William D Clinger
> Nr. 5 'Melodie' for solo piano (not cello). It is also in his incidental
> music for the play Erynnies where it is titled Elégie, and another version
> is a song for voice. He probably also did make a cello version - it is well
> suited to it. Joshua Bell recorded it as violin and piano.
>
> The Op. 10, Nr. 5 version is in E minor.
>
> Richard
Thanks, Richard. The National Library of Australia has provided us
with an online copy of an 1894 edition of Massenet's Elegie in G minor
for voice and piano: http://nla.gov.au/nla.mus-an23136540
This is Nr 3 from some unspecified opus. I'm guessing that this opus
consists of seven slightly different arrangements of the same song:
Nr 1 E minor, for voice and piano
Nr 2 F minor, for voice and piano
Nr 3 G minor, for voice and piano
Nr 4 E minor, for voice and cello
Nr 5 F minor, for voice and cello
Nr 6 G minor, for voice and cello
Nr 7 D minor, for ???
Will
Pami Learner
I have recorded a version of your guitar transcription of Massenet's Elegie.
You can find it at
http://www.geocities.com/pamilearner/
I changed the fingering in a few places to make it easier for me and in some
cases for effect. I hope that these changes have not affected the result
too much.
I consider myself to be an intermediate (amateur) player but did not find
this quite as easy as you implied. However, it was a fun diversion from the
usual pieces (mostly tremolo) I've been working on. Thanks
for offering the piece to the group. I hope I haven't butchered it too
much.
-Pami Learner
"Richard Yates" <ric...@yatesguitar.com> wrote in message
news:101nk2c...@corp.supernews.com...
> > Are you saying that we should post our individual mp3 recordings of it
> > and get some constructive (and destructive) criticism going? I'm game
> > and all for it but the piece is copyrighted and I know there's a lot of
> > people on this NG who aren't too keen about posting recordings of
> > copyrighted works on the internet without permission. Aryeh Eller
>
> Over four years ago a similar project was proposed here. Larry Deack
> generously used his own money to buy the music for about ten people. It
all
> kind of faded away after a few weeks and no recordings were posted. If
there
> is interest in trying this again, I am willing to put the files on my
> website.
Byron
I just listened and I think you've done a fine job with it.
I'm also finding it a little tougher than expected, but am carrying on as
best I can.
Your admission to changing some fingerings is interesting because I'm
finding a couple of stretches tough for me. I'm always reluctant to change
fingerings though, being afraid I'm cheating myself out of a chance at some
development. Many challenges to this musician thing :)
Anyway, thanks for the recording. I'm now even more determined to see the
piece through.
Peace
Byron
"Pami Learner" <pamil...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:amWXb.1822$w65.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
choro-nik
other pieces on your website.
Re Recuerdos de la Alhambras -- good effort. Results not bad for an
intermediate player, as you describe yourself. One criticism though= Aim for
long sweeps of melody and "breathe" longer between musical sentences. I
noticed you sometimes tend to "breathe" between phrases as long or even
longer as you sometimes breathe between sentences. Aim for broad swathes of
melody. Noticed this in the Sor piece as well. Also again a comment I could
make now as I listen to your Sor, please note that speed is NOT of the
essence but clarity and musicality are. It is no use playing at a speed you
are uncomfortable at with some notes disappearing into thin air. Towards the
end of minute 6 (I believe) you could make the repeating Ti-ri-ri-Ram motifs
more of a live "conversation" by using a more distinct tonal difference
between the two "characters". But, all in all not a bad effort at all by an
intermediate level player, I'd say. Keep up the good effort. BTW, I DO like
the changes of mood suggested by your tonal differences in playing the Sor
piece. Very musical. Very musical.
--
choro-nik
********
"Pami Learner" <pamil...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:amWXb.1822$w65.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
: Richard,
: >
: >
:
:
Richard Yates
Very nicely played - I liked hearing it a lot. Everything is clear; good
tone. You allowed the melody to sound above the accompaniment (although you
might try lowering the dynamic of the latter even more). The little
contrapuntal section comes across well.
What were the fingering changes that you made? I could not detect them
(except for the small glisses - nice touch).
Thanks for learning, recording and posting it.
Richard
"Pami Learner" <pamil...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:amWXb.1822$w65.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
Pami Learner
Thanks for the positive comments. Here are the variances in fingerings that
I mentioned. Most of them were to make it easier for me to play.
bar 4 - the last half of the bar with a 4-string bar on the 4th fret.
bar 10 and 13 - used open D (this meant alternating between a 3 and 4 string
bar in this section)
bar 16 - a 4 string bar on the 4th fret
bar 17,18 - offbeat accompaniment open E + harmonic(XII) on 3rd string and
melody on the 4th string only
until the E gliss. to G on the 5th string
bar 19 - melody on 4th string only ( gliss. E to D)
bar 21,22 - play with bar on II instead of VII. Gliss. B up to E on 7th
fret for bar 23.
That's most of them anyway. Fun little piece - thanks again.
-Pami
"Richard Yates" <ric...@yatesguitar.com> wrote in message
news:1031e8g...@corp.supernews.com...
Pami Learner
a couple of lessons on the Sor. I think the "speeding" problem is somewhat
fixed. I'm taking a couple of sections a little slower right now.
Yes, phrasing. We're working on that. Nice to have another perspective,
though.
I will be playing both these pieces at a local festival in April. I will
try to record ultimate versions just before the performance (when the
technique peaks, I hope).
Thanks for your interest.
-Pami
"choro-nik" <chor...@tvcom.net> wrote in message
news:LYXXb.23590$ul3....@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
Pami Learner
I'm glad you're going to give it a try. I'm looking forward to hearing
another version of this. I posted my fingerings in my response to Richard.
I don't know if they will help. You can always give them a try. I'll be
glad to answer any questions you have about my fingerings.
-Pami
"Byron" <byro...@adelphiaspamless.net> wrote in message
news:Yu6dnQ-5NdH...@adelphia.com...
Richard Yates
in mm.17-18 are an imaginative variation.
Why use the open string m. 13 when the D is right there under the 4 on the
sixth string.? The shift between a 3 and 4 string barre would seem too much
trouble and not necessary.
Richard
"Pami Learner" wrote
Pami Learner
I don't really find the shift difficult. At the time it seemed easier.
Here are some thoughts:
1) an open note is always nice to have in a piece that needs sustain
2) any prolonged bar holding is nasty
3) timbre of the 10th fret on 6th string didn't fit what I had going there.
I just tried your way again and it doesn't seem so bad now. The open string
still seems less demanding on the hands for me. Next version maybe I'll try
the original fingering you had. This will darken the color though that
section (Bars 11-16). Maybe I was being too brassy there?
-Pami
P.S.
Correction to earlier notes for Bar 19: "gliss. E to F#"
"Richard Yates" <ric...@yatesguitar.com> wrote in message
news:10344op...@corp.supernews.com...