Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Using the Pinky!
185 views
Skip to first unread message
Alphonsus Jr.
Sep 24, 2012, 5:11:44 PM9/24/12
to
Strappers of Jocks,
Why don't we use the pinky finger of the right hand? Instead of operating at only 80%, we could go to 100%. Are there drawbacks to using the pinky?
Why don't we use the pinky finger of the right hand? Instead of operating at only 80%, we could go to 100%. Are there drawbacks to using the pinky?
JonLorPro
Sep 24, 2012, 5:38:43 PM9/24/12
to
On Sep 24, 5:11 pm, "Alphonsus Jr." <alphonsu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Strappers of Jocks,
>
> Why don't we use the pinky finger of the right hand? Instead of operating at only 80%, we could go to 100%. Are there drawbacks to using the pinky?
We do, in rasgeados. There are also a few who advocate common use of
> Strappers of Jocks,
>
> Why don't we use the pinky finger of the right hand? Instead of operating at only 80%, we could go to 100%. Are there drawbacks to using the pinky?
it as are used the other digits- practice manuals and studies have
been published for it ( do I correctly recall Stepan Rak as one
such?) . I don't know if as described in those (or "that" if only
one) manuals if this entails limiting its use to only certain
circumstances which call for special preparation, but I don't find it
a practical proposition- too much re-orientation of the hand is
required. I know that DRA has claimed it as essential for some
particular thing he does, but I've always found other solutions to be
much more expedient in situations which suggest it might be used-
such as five note chords in Villa-Lobos, or the one five note chord in
the Dowland fantasy everyone does. In the "Danza" of Orbon's
"Preludio y Danza" there are certain chords which come off as
violently expressive in a manner very appropriate to the piece if the
alternative solution is to use the A finger for the top two notes,
instead of the thumb for the bottom two- so much so that I deceided
to use that technique even when not necessitated for practical
purposes! ( go to "www.soundclick.com/johnbigelow", select "Danza." )
It's worth noting that conventional harp technique also does not
include use of the little finger, presumably for the same reason. I
don't know what maverick personalities there may in that regard in
that world.
Fadosolrélamisi
Sep 24, 2012, 6:48:57 PM9/24/12
to
Looking forward to hear the Danza!
Alain
Alphonsus Jr.
Sep 24, 2012, 7:10:55 PM9/24/12
to
full
Then choose.
I don't like this piece. Too schizophrenic. John plays it expertly, of course, and it illustrates his point very well.
My pinky is a good pinko. It wants to share the burden equally and is crying out to do so. But it's a real pain. The pinko is very weak from living in luxury for so long.
JonLorPro
Sep 24, 2012, 7:22:32 PM9/24/12
to
On Sep 24, 6:48 pm, Fadosolrélamisi <rei...@telus.net> wrote:
.>
> Heu ... John, (I have no idea if it's the same for everyone but ...) I have an error loading on the Danza, I checked with the >link above and it was fine....
Hmmm- dunno what to say- I just tried clicking on the link in my own
post, and I also got an error page from google- but if I type in the
URL and extension myself in to the browser address bar, it goes there
just fine. I checked to see if I had misspelled it, and I hadn't.
Maybe the link in my post is trying to include the period, or the
quotes?
Or _were_ you able to get to the page but unable then to load the
"Danza" once you got there? Was it a problem loading the player, or
just in loading the "Danza" in particular? Did you try any of the
other pieces? Is there maybe some appplication which one needs in
one's computer in order to load the "soundclick" player, a common one
but one which you just happen not to have? I confess ingmorance but
suppose I would be well advised to know this, if I'm going to be
bandying about my soundclick page in conversation.
When I went there earlier today just to confirm that all was still
intact (I haven't done anything with that page for about a century and
a half) I of course clicked on the "Danza", and all worked fine.
If nothing else works and you are still wanting- deperate even!- to
hear _my_ version of the "Damza", let me know and I'll send you a
sound file in an e-mail attachment.
Actually, I just remembered something- I think I discovered through
experimentation a long time ago that if one puts a URL into a post
such as in this forum, but omits the "http://" it sometimes doesn't
work. It's been long enough so that I forgot this. Also, I see that
when I do go there, something else appears in the address bar.
So, try this:
http://www.soundclick.com/johnbigelow
or this:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=820791
And, I see when I actualy load the player for "Danza", it displays
this:
http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=10273820&q=hi&newref=1
One of these should work, and be a tray of beans for you- lemme know
what happens.
BTW- whenever I see your chosen moniker of "Fadosolrélamisi", I of
course know how you arived at it- but I think of Portugese Fado music
instead. Did that ever occur to you?
.>
> Heu ... John, (I have no idea if it's the same for everyone but ...) I have an error loading on the Danza, I checked with the >link above and it was fine....
Hmmm- dunno what to say- I just tried clicking on the link in my own
post, and I also got an error page from google- but if I type in the
URL and extension myself in to the browser address bar, it goes there
just fine. I checked to see if I had misspelled it, and I hadn't.
Maybe the link in my post is trying to include the period, or the
quotes?
Or _were_ you able to get to the page but unable then to load the
"Danza" once you got there? Was it a problem loading the player, or
just in loading the "Danza" in particular? Did you try any of the
other pieces? Is there maybe some appplication which one needs in
one's computer in order to load the "soundclick" player, a common one
but one which you just happen not to have? I confess ingmorance but
suppose I would be well advised to know this, if I'm going to be
bandying about my soundclick page in conversation.
When I went there earlier today just to confirm that all was still
intact (I haven't done anything with that page for about a century and
a half) I of course clicked on the "Danza", and all worked fine.
If nothing else works and you are still wanting- deperate even!- to
hear _my_ version of the "Damza", let me know and I'll send you a
sound file in an e-mail attachment.
Actually, I just remembered something- I think I discovered through
experimentation a long time ago that if one puts a URL into a post
such as in this forum, but omits the "http://" it sometimes doesn't
work. It's been long enough so that I forgot this. Also, I see that
when I do go there, something else appears in the address bar.
So, try this:
http://www.soundclick.com/johnbigelow
or this:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=820791
And, I see when I actualy load the player for "Danza", it displays
this:
http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=10273820&q=hi&newref=1
One of these should work, and be a tray of beans for you- lemme know
what happens.
BTW- whenever I see your chosen moniker of "Fadosolrélamisi", I of
course know how you arived at it- but I think of Portugese Fado music
instead. Did that ever occur to you?
Tommy Grand
Sep 24, 2012, 8:18:11 PM9/24/12
to
On Sep 24, 4:11 pm, "Alphonsus Jr." <alphonsu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Strappers of Jocks,
>
> Why don't we use the pinky finger of the right hand? Instead of operating at only 80%, we could go to 100%. Are there drawbacks to using the pinky?
Prior to his death, father Pujol was developing a comprehensive
> Strappers of Jocks,
>
> Why don't we use the pinky finger of the right hand? Instead of operating at only 80%, we could go to 100%. Are there drawbacks to using the pinky?
"theory of the five fingers". It was never published but I'm certain
the manuscript will turn up someday. In fact, I may go to Lerida and
search for it in the archives. Then all will be revealed.
Alphonsus Jr.
Sep 24, 2012, 8:31:02 PM9/24/12
to
hallj...@gmail.com
Sep 24, 2012, 8:34:18 PM9/24/12
to
http://www.melbay.com/Products/21290/contemporary-anthology-of-solo-guitar-music.aspx
John
Fadosolrélamisi
Sep 24, 2012, 8:38:38 PM9/24/12
to
mata...@gmail.com
Sep 24, 2012, 8:45:20 PM9/24/12
to
On Monday, September 24, 2012 8:18:14 PM UTC-4, Tommy Grand wrote:
> On Sep 24, 4:11 pm, "Alphonsus Jr." <alphonsu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Strappers of Jocks,
>
> >
>
> > Why don't we use the pinky finger of the right hand? Instead of operating at only 80%, we could go to 100%. Are there drawbacks to using the pinky?
>
>
>
> Prior to his death, father Pujol was developing a comprehensive
>
> "theory of the five fingers".
It was not Pujol, but rather Domingo Prat who published this idea in 1922 in a book called la Nueva Technica de la Guitarra, based on one study by Dionosio Aguado who already expressed the idea in 1825.
>
> > Strappers of Jocks,
>
> >
>
> > Why don't we use the pinky finger of the right hand? Instead of operating at only 80%, we could go to 100%. Are there drawbacks to using the pinky?
>
>
>
> Prior to his death, father Pujol was developing a comprehensive
>
> "theory of the five fingers".
MO.
Tommy Grand
Sep 24, 2012, 9:16:47 PM9/24/12
to
apparently having some such theory. Or maybe I misunderstood, Roberts
can be awfully opaque.
Steven Bornfeld
Sep 25, 2012, 10:34:24 AM9/25/12
to
On 9/24/2012 5:11 PM, Alphonsus Jr. wrote:
> Strappers of Jocks,
>
> Why don't we use the pinky finger of the right hand? Instead of operating at only 80%, we could go to 100%. Are there drawbacks to using the pinky?
>
Jackson--
> Strappers of Jocks,
>
> Why don't we use the pinky finger of the right hand? Instead of operating at only 80%, we could go to 100%. Are there drawbacks to using the pinky?
>
Charles Postlewate has been an advocate of PIMAC for many years. He
has a couple of books out.
http://www.charlespostlewate.com/
Steve
--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
Steven Bornfeld
Sep 25, 2012, 10:35:50 AM9/25/12
to
Alphonsus Jr.
Sep 25, 2012, 1:19:15 PM9/25/12
to
Interesting!
Douglas Seth
Sep 26, 2012, 8:25:07 AM9/26/12
to
>
> John
Hi John,
I just listened to you play the Etudes from this book on YouTube. They
are really good pieces and well played. This whole concept has always
facinated me because before I left rural PA and got indoctrinated in
CG culture, I would routinely use my pinky for 5 notes chords like in
HVL Étude 6. Because of my youth, when I realized no one else was
doing it, I stopped using it and just found other solutions around it.
Obviously, this was a mistake and I should have developed it more.
Years later, I realized HVL was using after all. There is plenty of
circumstantial evidence to support this, including a picture of HVL
playing with his RH pinky clearly playing or poised to play (not to
mention all the 5 note chords in his music, his background as a choro
player, etc...). The only problem I see with bring the pinky into
mainstream technique is-- we have 100's of years of repertoire based
on a technique that doesn't include the pinky. I have 2 questions.
Do you still use the RH pinky?
How long did it take for you to develop it during the process of
learning these pieces?
hallj...@gmail.com
Sep 26, 2012, 11:21:16 AM9/26/12
to
Up to the point of working on this book with Postlewate I had never used the little finger of the right hand. In the context of the pieces I wrote, incorporating the pinky was not too difficult. I am certainly nowhere near the point of using it fluently. Postlewate's exercises were extremely helpful. I would say I worked with it for about a year and a half as this project was in the works. I fall back into my old habits when playing now (pinkyless) but still work with it from time to time. The idea is to get fresh blood working with this technique from the start. It seems quite natural with the straight wrist hand position. Like you said, there are plenty of ways to get around it but Postlewate's research seems to indicate the benefits of using it are great. Chuck always loved to paraphrase an encounter Villa-Lobos had with Segovia when Segovia said something about how his music used the little finger and was not compatible with his technique. HVL said something like "so you don't use the little finger, then cut it off!"
John
Alphonsus Jr.
Sep 26, 2012, 1:01:17 PM9/26/12
to
I'm going to have to insist that throughout this thread this digit is referred to as the "pinky," not as the "little finger" or anything else. Thanks!
David Raleigh Arnold
Sep 26, 2012, 1:47:35 PM9/26/12
to
and equally with i, m, and a.
The pinkie has two worthwhile uses. There may be more:
1. Artificial harmonics.
2. 5 note chords.
Regards, daveA
--
Guitar teaching materials and original music for all styles and levels.
Site: http://www.openguitar.com (()) eMail: d.raleig...@gmail.com
Contact: http://www.openguitar.com/contact.html"
David Raleigh Arnold
Sep 26, 2012, 1:49:43 PM9/26/12
to
On Wed, 26 Sep 2012 17:47:35 +0000, David Raleigh Arnold wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Sep 2012 14:11:44 -0700, Alphonsus Jr. wrote:
>
>> Strappers of Jocks,
>>
>> Why don't we use the pinky finger of the right hand? Instead of
>> operating at only 80%, we could go to 100%. Are there drawbacks to
>> using the pinky?
>
> Only if you are dumb enough to try to use it in the same way and equally
> with i, m, and a.
>
> The pinkie has three worthwhile uses. There may be more:
> On Mon, 24 Sep 2012 14:11:44 -0700, Alphonsus Jr. wrote:
>
>> Strappers of Jocks,
>>
>> Why don't we use the pinky finger of the right hand? Instead of
>> operating at only 80%, we could go to 100%. Are there drawbacks to
>> using the pinky?
>
> Only if you are dumb enough to try to use it in the same way and equally
> with i, m, and a.
>
>
> 1. Artificial harmonics.
>
> 2. 5 note chords.
>
> Regards, daveA
Oops. and
> 1. Artificial harmonics.
>
> 2. 5 note chords.
>
> Regards, daveA
3. Rasgeados
John Nguyen
Sep 26, 2012, 1:55:54 PM9/26/12
to
On Wednesday, September 26, 2012 1:47:40 PM UTC-4, daveA wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Sep 2012 14:11:44 -0700, Alphonsus Jr. wrote: > Strappers of Jocks, > > Why don't we use the pinky finger of the right hand? Instead of > operating at only 80%, we could go to 100%. Are there drawbacks to using > the pinky? Only if you are dumb enough to try to use it in the same way and equally with i, m, and a. The pinkie has two worthwhile uses. There may be more: 1. Artificial harmonics. 2. 5 note chords. Regards, daveA -- Guitar teaching materials and original music for all styles and levels. Site: http://www.openguitar.com (()) eMail: d.raleig...@gmail.com Contact: http://www.openguitar.com/contact.html"
Yamashita would be very upset if he read this post. He used his pinky for one finger tremolo in his Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition transcription.
> On Mon, 24 Sep 2012 14:11:44 -0700, Alphonsus Jr. wrote: > Strappers of Jocks, > > Why don't we use the pinky finger of the right hand? Instead of > operating at only 80%, we could go to 100%. Are there drawbacks to using > the pinky? Only if you are dumb enough to try to use it in the same way and equally with i, m, and a. The pinkie has two worthwhile uses. There may be more: 1. Artificial harmonics. 2. 5 note chords. Regards, daveA -- Guitar teaching materials and original music for all styles and levels. Site: http://www.openguitar.com (()) eMail: d.raleig...@gmail.com Contact: http://www.openguitar.com/contact.html"
dsi1
Sep 26, 2012, 3:45:01 PM9/26/12
to
On Sep 24, 11:11 am, "Alphonsus Jr." <alphonsu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Strappers of Jocks,
>
> Why don't we use the pinky finger of the right hand? Instead of operating at only 80%, we could go to 100%. Are there drawbacks to using the pinky?
God gave us the gift of the pinky in case we lose a finger. It's in
> Strappers of Jocks,
>
> Why don't we use the pinky finger of the right hand? Instead of operating at only 80%, we could go to 100%. Are there drawbacks to using the pinky?
the bible.
Douglas Seth
Sep 26, 2012, 7:55:01 PM9/26/12
to
getting a good tone. After working with it for an extended period, do
you have any advice for developing a good sound with the pinky? When I
get a break after a few projects, I am going to work on developing my
pinky more.
Douglas Seth
Sep 26, 2012, 7:56:09 PM9/26/12
to
On Sep 26, 1:55 pm, John Nguyen <johnnguyen5...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 26, 2012 1:47:40 PM UTC-4, daveA wrote:
> > On Mon, 24 Sep 2012 14:11:44 -0700, Alphonsus Jr. wrote: > Strappers of Jocks, > > Why don't we use the pinky finger of the right hand? Instead of > operating at only 80%, we could go to 100%. Are there drawbacks to using > the pinky? Only if you are dumb enough to try to use it in the same way and equally with i, m, and a. The pinkie has two worthwhile uses. There may be more: 1. Artificial harmonics. 2. 5 note chords. Regards, daveA -- Guitar teaching materials and original music for all styles and levels. Site:http://www.openguitar.com(()) eMail: d.raleigh.arn...@gmail.com Contact:http://www.openguitar.com/contact.html"
> On Wednesday, September 26, 2012 1:47:40 PM UTC-4, daveA wrote:
>
> Yamashita would be very upset if he read this post. He used his pinky for one finger tremolo in his Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition transcription.
Rak also uses the pinky for a variety of textures in his pieces.
> Yamashita would be very upset if he read this post. He used his pinky for one finger tremolo in his Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition transcription.
hallj...@gmail.com
Sep 26, 2012, 8:51:12 PM9/26/12
to
Postlewate complained about that also. His nail was not in the best shape. I am lucky enough to have pretty thick nails so that with an angled attack I can get a decent tone. I agree it is difficult to get a good sound out of it, much more so than any of the other fingers. I am sure you will get it after a lot of trial and error. You have a great technique now, I can't wait to hear what comes of this.
John
John E. Golden
Sep 26, 2012, 9:07:43 PM9/26/12
to
Steven Bornfeld <bornfe...@dentaltwins.com> wrote:
> On 9/24/2012 5:11 PM, Alphonsus Jr. wrote:
>> Strappers of Jocks,
>>
>> Why don't we use the pinky finger of the right hand? Instead of
>> operating at only 80%, we could go to 100%. Are there drawbacks to
>> using the pinky?
>>
> Jackson--
>
> Charles Postlewate has been an advocate of PIMAC for many years. He
> has a couple of books out.
>
> http://www.charlespostlewate.com/
>
> Steve
Charles Postlewate Concert
> On 9/24/2012 5:11 PM, Alphonsus Jr. wrote:
>> Strappers of Jocks,
>>
>> Why don't we use the pinky finger of the right hand? Instead of
>> operating at only 80%, we could go to 100%. Are there drawbacks to
>> using the pinky?
>>
> Jackson--
>
> Charles Postlewate has been an advocate of PIMAC for many years. He
> has a couple of books out.
>
> http://www.charlespostlewate.com/
>
> Steve
Friday, October 1, 2004
7:00 PM
Shaver Music Recital Hall
Wayne State University
Detroit, Michigan
Mr. Postlewate is a music professor at the University of Texas at
Arlington.
He has spent the last nineteen years on the task of adding the little
finger of the right hand to the classical guitar technique with the
objective of enhancing musicality and speed where necessary. His latest
CD "Homage to Villa-Lobos" was recorded with his five finger right hand
technique. This work will also be released on DVD this fall by Mel Bay.
This project has also produced two books published by Mel Bay.
Mr. Postlewate quit concertizing nineteen years ago to work on this
project. He was aiming toward resuming concerts next spring, but the
2004 Arts Achievement Award he just received from Wayne State University
persuaded him to do this concert.
HOMAGE TO VILLA-LOBOS
Guitar Music for Five Fingers of the Right Hand
Choros #1 Heitor Villa-Lobos
(1887-1959)
Five Preludes Heitor Villa-Lobos
Homage to the Inlanders
Homage to Bach
Homage to the Social Life
Homage to the Amazon Indians
Homage to the Cariocans
Homage to Villa-Lobos Charles Postlewate
I. Preludio ronda (b. 1941)
II. Valse Melanc½lica
III. Danza
Three Italian Lute Pieces Anonymous
(16th century)
Two Studies Fernando Sor
(1788-1839)
La puerta del vino Claude Debussy
(transcribed for guitar by Charles Postlewate) (1862-1918)
Variations on a Theme by Prokofiev Charles Postlewate
Improvisation on Green Dolphin Street Charles Postlewate
WORKSHOP ON THE FIVE FINGER TECHNIQUE
Saturday, October 2, 2004
Wayne State University
I've heard tell of some South American guitarists using the little
finger of the right hand, but I'd never seen anyone use it.
Mr. Postlewate, though, has devoted nineteen years to researching,
implementing, refining, and now recording a CD and Video using this five
finger right hand technique.
The object of using the right hand little finger is that it makes fuller
five note chords possible, enables more speed (when necessary) on scale
passages, and allows more convenient tremolo right hand fingering.
According to Mr. Postlewate, the little finger (c) has more musculature
and thus more strength and also has more independence of movement,
although less precision than the ring finger (a). One of his points
here is that many arpeggios would be better played by using imc rather
than ima, for example.
An untraditional Right Hand Position is necessary to utilize the little
finger. The hand is at about forty-five degrees to the strings (Not the
Segovia position). Using this approach it is possible to also pluck the
strings with the shorter little finger. This makes the contour of the
nail more critical, especially on the index and middle fingers.
He's convinced that the little finger technique will be common in 20 or
30 years? He also believes that will lead naturally to a seventh string
(additional bass string). As proof, Mr. Postlewate offers this CD and
the forthcoming video.
I must say that the speed of some of the pieces and the very full chords
in the transcription of the Debussy piano piece at yesterday's concert
on this CD are impressive. Unfortunately, Mr. Postlewate played the
concert and recorded this CD and Video using what I feel is a rather
"brittle" sounding John Gilbert guitar. This brittleness of tone is in
no way related to the five finger technique, IMO. I came to this
conclusion after listening to this Gilbert guitar up close.
I brought my magnificent new, old Kohno guitar to the workshop, and
after trying a variety of diatonic scales, chromatic scales, arpeggios,
etc., I'm convinced that using the little finger is possible with
training, but I'm not sure that I'm ready to put in the necessary work
this late in my career (or pastime or whatever you call it). According
to Mr. Postlewate, the hardest thing for him was getting a smooth
tremolo, but it may not be hard for everyone.
Mr. Postlewate says that an added bonus is that the straight arm/hand
position is much less likely to result in hand problems as compared with
the knuckles parallel to the strings approach of Segovia.
Well, Dear Newsgroup Colleagues,
Do you find this interesting and do you think this will result in a
revolutionary new way of playing classical guitar?
Warmest Regards,
John E. (Four Fingers) Golden
Alphonsus Jr.
Sep 26, 2012, 9:53:33 PM9/26/12
to
Some fascinating info is coming to light in this thread. Friends, I thank you.
Fadosolrélamisi
Sep 27, 2012, 10:26:25 AM9/27/12
to
David Raleigh Arnold
Sep 28, 2012, 7:55:14 PM9/28/12
to
Richard Jernigan
Oct 1, 2012, 6:53:01 PM10/1/12
to
RNJ
Richard Jernigan
Oct 1, 2012, 8:16:12 PM10/1/12
to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge8pBh2S-lQ
RNJ
0 new messages