guitar support

[Bernie Cosell]

I need to replace my footstool with a guitar support. I know nothing
about them [in fact, until I looked them up on stringsbymail I didn't even
know they were called "guitar supports" and there are a zillion different
[but mostly similar] types of them].

I was looking at this one:

https://www.stringsbymail.com/de-oro-classica-guitar-support-martini-frame-brass-brown-24040.html

is it a reasonable choice? They seem to range in price from ~$25 to more
than $100. and there are various different layouts. Any advice? Thanks!!

/Bernie\
--
Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers
ber...@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA
--> Too many people, too few sheep <--

[Paul Carmichael]

El Tue, 06 Sep 2022 08:35:43 -0400, Bernie Cosell escribió:

> I need to replace my footstool with a guitar support. I know nothing
> about them [in fact, until I looked them up on stringsbymail I didn't
> even know they were called "guitar supports" and there are a zillion
> different [but mostly similar] types of them].
>
> I was looking at this one:
>
> https://www.stringsbymail.com/de-oro-classica-guitar-support-martini-
frame-brass-brown-24040.html
>
> is it a reasonable choice? They seem to range in price from ~$25 to
> more than $100. and there are various different layouts. Any advice?
> Thanks!!

In the spirit of recommending what one owns, Sageworks.

I played for one year with footstool and it did me lasting damage.


--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

[Ken Blake]

On 6 Sep 2022 13:46:20 GMT, Paul Carmichael <wibble...@gmail.com>
wrote:

What was the lasting damage the footstool did? I always played with a
footstool, then bought and switched to a support about four years ago.
After about a year, I realized that the support was making me very
uncomfortable and I went back to the footstool.

[Paul Carmichael]

Serious back pain. It doesn't affect most people, but I know quite a few
that it has affected.



--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

[Ken Blake]

On 6 Sep 2022 15:00:12 GMT, Paul Carmichael <wibble...@gmail.com>

Ok, not to disagree, but are you sure that was the cause of the back
pain? Many people (me for example) get back pain as they get older. In
my case, it's caused by spinal stenosis.

[Bernie Cosell]

Paul Carmichael <wibble...@gmail.com> wrote:

} In the spirit of recommending what one owns, Sageworks.

That looks like a great support! I'm concerned about trying to glue
magnets inside my guitar -- was that easier to do than it sounds like?
Is seems like it is tricky...

Found the howto video

https://vimeo.com/62797844

it's very clever how he does it. Two things that are misleading in it.

First, that you can do it with the guitar still strung. I certainly
couldn't do that [big clumsy hands and with my luck I'd break a string
:o)]. If I'm going to loosen the strings so much that I can get my hand
through, I'd just as soon take the opportunity to put on a new set :o)

Second: getting it off. I'm very familiar with command strips [we use
them for everything :o)] and it is *hard/tricky* to get command strips off
cleanly. If you watch the video, imagine what he's doing but through the
sound hole of the guitar. And if you don't pull the tab _just_right_ it
disconnects from the rest of adhesive strip and you're done in. [as he
demonstrates, you need to pull the strip to the side, but that hasn't
worked well for me in practice [I have a few places where I ended up with a
bit of pain pulled off the wall :(] and that's pulling the in the normal
direction -- straight. Obviously you can't to that for the support magnets
-- you'd have to pull the tab up through the sound board -- and if you tear
the strip there's no way you could get inside your guitar body to try to
peel it off. my guess is it best to consider the installation
permanent..:o)

BUT: I have to admit that it looks like a *great* support.. now I gotta go
think about it.

Thanks for the pointer!!

[John]

I've used a Dynarette cushion for a long time and it's just right. Strings By Mail shows some less expensive ones from Oasis. I used to use a footstool but found the position uncomfortable and the many comments I heard seemed plausible, that it can lead to back pain.

John R.

[John]

You probably saw this comparison chart at Strings by Mail, but just in case:

https://www.stringsbymail.com/pages/best-guitar-support-guide-44.html

John R.

[Steven Bornfeld]

It's funny (not ha ha funny)--I recently joined the NYC Classical Guitar
Orchestra--and over half were using supports of some kind in lieu of
footstools.
In my case I developed sciatic pain--actually numbness of the leg all
the way down. I've used Dynarette cushions since then. Of course there
are back problems. In the words of a neurologist I consulted, "Don't
bother getting an mri; you're over 60--you're going to have bulges,
you're going to have herniations." So I got an MRI and he was right.
(The pain got worse, and more alarmingly my leg was starting to collapse
under me if I walked down stairs).
So I don't think the footstool CAUSED the sciatic problem, but it did
exacerbate it. Eventually most of the symptoms resolved, with physical
therapy.
The rap on Dynarette is that it is slippery, and doesn't stabilize the
guitar very well. This is true, but I've been able to adjust. Also, my
guitar has a matte finish, so I don't think suction cups would work too
well.

[Steven Bornfeld]

Don't know if you follow Bradford Werner--he reviews several guitar
supports here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJQm4iYUTww

[Ken Blake]

Interestingly I know one guitarist (a very good one, in my opinion)
who I've seen perform using *both* a cushion and a footstool at the
same time. Why? I don't know. I'll ask him the next time I see him do
it.

>In my case I developed sciatic pain--actually numbness of the leg all
>the way down. I've used Dynarette cushions since then. Of course there
>are back problems. In the words of a neurologist I consulted, "Don't
>bother getting an mri; you're over 60--you're going to have bulges,
>you're going to have herniations." So I got an MRI and he was right.
>(The pain got worse, and more alarmingly my leg was starting to collapse
>under me if I walked down stairs).
>So I don't think the footstool CAUSED the sciatic problem, but it did
>exacerbate it. Eventually most of the symptoms resolved, with physical
>therapy.

I've had about a dozen physical therapy sessions and I continue to do
the exercises I learned there almost every day.

Has it helped? I'm not sure. If it has, only slightly. I still have
the symptoms. Mostly when I walk more than 1/4 mile or so, I get pain
in my left leg and if I don't stop walking, it spreads to my lower
back.

One thing that usually alleviates the pain, at least to some extent,
is leaning forward against a wall.

I've given up any expectations of the problem ever going away (I'm
almost 85). As long as I don't walk too far, I can live with it. Since
these days, I spend most of my time in the house (my wife has more
serious problems and I don't want to leave her alone for long), I
don't have pain often.

>The rap on Dynarette is that it is slippery, and doesn't stabilize the
>guitar very well. This is true, but I've been able to adjust. Also, my
>guitar has a matte finish, so I don't think suction cups would work too
>well.

Another "interestingly": I've seen David Russell play many times, both
giving concerts and master classes. In concerts he's always played
with a footstool, but in the master classes, he's usually used a
support with suction cups. Why the inconsistency? I don't know.

[Steven Bornfeld]

I'm sure the appropriate PT must depend on just what is causing the
pain. Most of my sciatic problem is gone--except sometimes my lower leg
still goes numb.
I have to get out and walk. Lost my wife about a year and a half ago; I
try to spend time outside--better for my head.

>
>
>> The rap on Dynarette is that it is slippery, and doesn't stabilize the
>> guitar very well. This is true, but I've been able to adjust. Also, my
>> guitar has a matte finish, so I don't think suction cups would work too
>> well.
>
>
> Another "interestingly": I've seen David Russell play many times, both
> giving concerts and master classes. In concerts he's always played
> with a footstool, but in the master classes, he's usually used a
> support with suction cups. Why the inconsistency? I don't know.

Of course, can go the Paul Galbraith way and play the guitar in 'cello
position--that looks like it might be easier on the back. But it's got
to be a big adjustment in technique.

[Ken Blake]

On Fri, 9 Sep 2022 21:50:15 -0400, Steven Bornfeld

Yes. Is it possible that I got the wrong exercises to do? Yes, but my
therapist knew what my problem was, so I don't think so.

> Most of my sciatic problem is gone

Very glad to hear that.

>--except sometimes my lower leg
>still goes numb.
>I have to get out and walk. Lost my wife about a year and a half ago; I

Very sorry to hear that.

>try to spend time outside--better for my head.

Yes. My wife hasn't died, but she's suffering from Alzheimer's
disease, and both our lives are very difficult. I should get outside
more, I know, but I'm reluctant to leave her alone for any longer than
I have to.

>>> The rap on Dynarette is that it is slippery, and doesn't stabilize the
>>> guitar very well. This is true, but I've been able to adjust. Also, my
>>> guitar has a matte finish, so I don't think suction cups would work too
>>> well.
>>
>>
>> Another "interestingly": I've seen David Russell play many times, both
>> giving concerts and master classes. In concerts he's always played
>> with a footstool, but in the master classes, he's usually used a
>> support with suction cups. Why the inconsistency? I don't know.
>
>Of course, can go the Paul Galbraith way and play the guitar in 'cello
>position--that looks like it might be easier on the back. But it's got
>to be a big adjustment in technique.

I've seen one player here do that. He played very poorly.

[Steven Bornfeld]

On 9/10/2022 10:54 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
>
> Yes. My wife hasn't died, but she's suffering from Alzheimer's
> disease, and both our lives are very difficult. I should get outside
> more, I know, but I'm reluctant to leave her alone for any longer than
> I have to.

Understood--I know that is very rough, and have some friends dealing
with that. I hope you get the outside support you need.

S

[Ken Dunlap]

Bernie Cosell <ber...@fantasyfarm.com> wrote:
> I need to replace my footstool with a guitar support. I know nothing
> about them [in fact, until I looked them up on stringsbymail I didn't even
> know they were called "guitar supports" and there are a zillion different
> [but mostly similar] types of them].
>
> I was looking at this one:
>
> https://www.stringsbymail.com/de-oro-classica-guitar-support-martini-frame-brass-brown-24040.html
>
> is it a reasonable choice? They seem to range in price from ~$25 to more
> than $100. and there are various different layouts. Any advice? Thanks!!

I've been very happy with my GuitarLift support. It suction-cups to the
back of the guitar, and is very stable. The downside compared to a
Sageworks is if you want to switch between multiple guitars. It's
nowhere near as easy with the GuitarLift.

--
A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that
nature replaces it with.
--Tennessee Williams

[gtr]

On Sep 14, 2022 at 12:30:32 PM PDT, "Ken Dunlap" <kdu...@panix.com> wrote:

> Bernie Cosell <ber...@fantasyfarm.com> wrote:
>> I need to replace my footstool with a guitar support. I know nothing
>> about them [in fact, until I looked them up on stringsbymail I didn't even
>> know they were called "guitar supports" and there are a zillion different
>> [but mostly similar] types of them].
>>
>> I was looking at this one:
>>
>> https://www.stringsbymail.com/de-oro-classica-guitar-support-martini-frame-brass-brown-24040.html
>>
>> is it a reasonable choice? They seem to range in price from ~$25 to more
>> than $100. and there are various different layouts. Any advice? Thanks!!
>
> I've been very happy with my GuitarLift support. It suction-cups to the
> back of the guitar, and is very stable. The downside compared to a
> Sageworks is if you want to switch between multiple guitars. It's
> nowhere near as easy with the GuitarLift.

GuitarLift was one of my favorite solutions. But it wouldn't connect well to
my primary guitar (a solid body) because my guitar had so many plastic
compoartment covers on the back. Worked great on classical and archtop.

Also the the leg-contact I felt should have about twice the padding material,
and/or be spread out on a wider portion of the thigh. It was uncomfortable
within 30 minutes. I was compelled to move it a little forward or backward for
relief and be just a skosh out of "best position". Anyway it was *damned*
close to perfection!

[Ted Haskell]

Luckily, I didn't have to switch due to back pain, but I wanted to experiment to see if a support would be comfortable for longer periods. I've been using the Trosper support purchased from Strings by Mail. I've been pleased. The suction cups hold on the French finish of my guitar, and I haven't detected damage. The suction cups need to be cleaned periodically, and replaced every couple of years. They don't stick indefinitely, so I've gotten in the habit of pressing them back on every few minutes. Luckily, when the lose suction, my guitar stays put. Unfortunately, I can't use it with my travel guitar (Soloette), so for some extended periods I have to go back to the footstool. It reinforces that I prefer the support.
--Ted

[Ken Dunlap]

gtr <x...@yyy.zzz> wrote:
>
> GuitarLift was one of my favorite solutions. But it wouldn't connect well to
> my primary guitar (a solid body) because my guitar had so many plastic
> compoartment covers on the back. Worked great on classical and archtop.

I bet you could drill some custom holes in the plexiglass to move the
suction cups away from the plastic covers.

>
> Also the the leg-contact I felt should have about twice the padding material,
> and/or be spread out on a wider portion of the thigh. It was uncomfortable
> within 30 minutes. I was compelled to move it a little forward or backward for
> relief and be just a skosh out of "best position". Anyway it was *damned*
> close to perfection!

There's probably a lot more downward pressure with a solid-body that
with a classical guitar. Last time I handled a Les Paul I was shocked
at how heavy it is. Maybe you could replace the small foam pad with a
segment of pool noodle for a wider contact area.

Ken

[dsi1]

Thanks for the good news about my back and its expected failure in the future!
My wife recently had back surgery for stenosis. She was at work and a patient kicked her hard in the knee. The knee put her off work for a while but she developed problems with the other leg. Evidently, the kick caused her to jerk to one side and caused a disk blowout. She had surgery and is now happy as a clam - more or less.
I was sorry to hear about your wife. There's some people that seem too good for this world, isn't there?

[Steven Bornfeld]

Well, I was happy to have her in my world for as long as I did. Glad
your wife's surgery was successful. I've heard that often they are not.

[Ken Blake]

Mine didn't help my spinal stenosis.

[dsi1]

God bless your wife - and my wife too.
The surgeon was so casual about the whole thing, you'd think it was easy as pie. He exuded confidence in his craft. I asked him about whether the surgery would allow my wife to regain feeling in her big toe. He said "I don't know." I guess that should have given me a clue that this was no easy, simple, pie, but instead, more of a humble pie. :)

[Ken Blake]

On Fri, 30 Sep 2022 18:46:45 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <dsi...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Many kinds of surgery are done with the *hope*, not certainty, that
they will fix a problem. My wife has been suffering from several
issues, most notably cognition and memory problem. With the thought
that the problems might be caused by Normal Pressure Hydrocephalus,
she had surgery a couple of months ago to insert a shunt into her
brain to drain the ventricles.

Alas, it didn't help. She probably has Alzheimer's disease, but there
us no way to be sure except by doing an autopsy.

[Steven Bornfeld]

My limited experience is that nerves do what they do, and it's hard to
predict. My surgeon said after my prostatectomy that he'd been able to
spare the nerve on one side, and part of the nerve on the other side.
Would that preserve my potency? No promises were made. Maybe that's
why my member lists a little to the left.

[dsi1]

On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 4:45:39 AM UTC-10, Ken Blake wrote:
> Many kinds of surgery are done with the *hope*, not certainty, that
> they will fix a problem. My wife has been suffering from several
> issues, most notably cognition and memory problem. With the thought
> that the problems might be caused by Normal Pressure Hydrocephalus,
> she had surgery a couple of months ago to insert a shunt into her
> brain to drain the ventricles.
>
> Alas, it didn't help. She probably has Alzheimer's disease, but there
> us no way to be sure except by doing an autopsy.

My wife has been having trouble using words for the last couple of years. I've noticed a somewhat aggressive manner when she drives that wasn't there before. Hopefully, I'm just paranoid. OTOH, the future is uncertain and no one knows how much time we have left. Gather ye memories while ye may... is what I say. Best wishes to you and your wife.

[dsi1]

On Sunday, October 2, 2022 at 6:48:07 AM UTC-10, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
> >
> My limited experience is that nerves do what they do, and it's hard to
> predict. My surgeon said after my prostatectomy that he'd been able to
> spare the nerve on one side, and part of the nerve on the other side.
> Would that preserve my potency? No promises were made. Maybe that's
> why my member lists a little to the left.

Well, that sounds pretty hairy. I don't usually talk about such things but your frankness has emboldened me. You're a doctor as well and heck, nobody reads rmcg anyway. I did have a problem with my member a couple of years ago. I noticed that it was pointing towards the left. Boy that was weird. I have no sexplanation for why that would be but it was alarming. These days my penis has straightened out its act and is completely normal. Well, except for it being on the small side - we don't talk about that. My guess is that my penis was trying to tell me that it didn't like my political bent and was steering me in the right direction. As it goes, if it starts pointing to the right - I'm voting for Trump. Sorry, but I really don't feel I have any choice in the matter.

[Ken Blake]

On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 01:00:44 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <dsi...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Thanks very much.

[Steven Bornfeld]

Well, now that they're advertising drugs for Peyronie's disease, I've
started avoiding carrots, esp. if they curve to the right.

[dsi1]

That's interesting! I'll have to check my carrots to see which way they're curved. OTOH, I'll just avoid carrots altogether or, at least, eat only straight carrots. I knew I could depend on you for the latest medical advice. Mahalo!

[Tobiah]

On 9/6/22 05:35, Bernie Cosell wrote:
> I need to replace my footstool with a guitar support. I know nothing
> about them [in fact, until I looked them up on stringsbymail I didn't even
> know they were called "guitar supports" and there are a zillion different
> [but mostly similar] types of them].
>
> I was looking at this one:
>
> https://www.stringsbymail.com/de-oro-classica-guitar-support-martini-frame-brass-brown-24040.html
>
> is it a reasonable choice? They seem to range in price from ~$25 to more
> than $100. and there are various different layouts. Any advice? Thanks!!
>

> /Bernie\


I have one of the ones (maybe it's a sageworks, I forget) that attaches
to the guitar with magnets. Never looking back. One thing that's great
is if you need to put your guitar in a case, you just pull off the support,
and when you're ready to play it just sticks back on with no fuss.

Installation was easier than I thought, and the adhesive strips on the inside
can be removed cleanly if you ever need to.

I'd also never consider going back to a foot stool.


Tobiah

[Ken Blake]

On 9/6/22 05:35, Bernie Cosell wrote:
> I need to replace my footstool with a guitar support. I know nothing
> about them [in fact, until I looked them up on stringsbymail I didn't even
> know they were called "guitar supports" and there are a zillion different
> [but mostly similar] types of them].
>
> I was looking at this one:
>
> https://www.stringsbymail.com/de-oro-classica-guitar-support-martini-frame-brass-brown-24040.html
>
> is it a reasonable choice? They seem to range in price from ~$25 to more
> than $100. and there are various different layouts. Any advice? Thanks!!

Did you buy that one? What do you think of it?

Or if you bought a different one, what did you choose and how do you
like it?

I've been think of buying a support, but perhaps for a different
reason. I use a footstool and have a tendency to let the bottom edge
of the guitar slip forward, so that the guitar top is at an angle
rather than being vertical.

The result of the guitar's being at an angle like that is that my
thumb slides round the neck and protrudes, and the result of that is
that my fingers tend to mute the treble strings.

So let me ask you, and anyone else here, whether my thought of using a
support rather than a food rest is a good idea and would help keep the
guitar more upright in the proper position.

[Bernie Cosell]

Ken Blake <K...@invalid.news.com> wrote:

} On 9/6/22 05:35, Bernie Cosell wrote:
} > I need to replace my footstool with a guitar support. I know nothing
} > about them [in fact, until I looked them up on stringsbymail I didn't even
} > know they were called "guitar supports" and there are a zillion different
} > [but mostly similar] types of them].
} >
} > I was looking at this one:
} >
} > https://www.stringsbymail.com/de-oro-classica-guitar-support-martini-frame-brass-brown-24040.html
} >
} > is it a reasonable choice? They seem to range in price from ~$25 to more
} > than $100. and there are various different layouts. Any advice? Thanks!!
}
} Did you buy that one? What do you think of it?

Yes I did, and I love it. I'll never go back to using a !%$#@$% foot
stool.

} Or if you bought a different one, what did you choose and how do you
} like it?

I also bought an ergoplay and I didn't like it [it was the less-expensive
one] - i couldn't get to hold my guitar at the proper angle and so my left
hand was all messed up. My guitar instructor likes the more expensive one
and I might try it, but I'm not all that impelled to try it, since I like
the martini one.

} So let me ask you, and anyone else here, whether my thought of using a
} support rather than a food rest is a good idea and would help keep the
} guitar more upright in the proper position.

I think they do. Since they are *holding* the guitar, rather than its just
being in a particular place at a particular angle, I'd expect that they'd
help hold your guitar upright.

[Ken Blake]

Thanks very much. Based on your recommendation, I just ordered one. Do
you know about how long it will take for it to arrive?

[Ken Blake]

On Wed, 02 Nov 2022 08:45:12 -0700, Ken Blake <K...@invalid.news.com>

Ignore that question. I just got an e-mail from them that said 2-5
days.

[Bernie Cosell]

Ken Blake <K...@invalid.news.com> wrote:

}
} Thanks very much. Based on your recommendation, I just ordered one. Do
} you know about how long it will take for it to arrive?

If you ordered the Martini from StringsbyMail, you'll have it less than a
week! SbM is very very good at promptly shipping stuff out....

[Ken Blake]

On Fri, 04 Nov 2022 19:01:50 -0400, Bernie Cosell
<ber...@fantasyfarm.com> wrote:

>Ken Blake <K...@invalid.news.com> wrote:
>
>}
>} Thanks very much. Based on your recommendation, I just ordered one. Do
>} you know about how long it will take for it to arrive?
>
>If you ordered the Martini from StringsbyMail, you'll have it less than a
>week! SbM is very very good at promptly shipping stuff out...

Thanks. It arrived yesterday. I'll be trying it soon.