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Few Rest Strokes: :-( ?
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Alphonsus Jr.
Nov 30, 2012, 9:36:40 PM11/30/12
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I use very few rest strokes. Is this cause for sadness? And does it indicate any modernist infection?
Andrew Schulman
Dec 1, 2012, 12:46:58 AM12/1/12
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On Nov 30, 9:36 pm, "Alphonsus Jr." <alphonsu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I use very few rest strokes. Is this cause for sadness? And does it indicate any modernist infection?
>
As long as you don't have *a* stroke you'll be OK.
> I use very few rest strokes. Is this cause for sadness? And does it indicate any modernist infection?
>
Andrew
Alan Turing
Dec 1, 2012, 2:14:32 AM12/1/12
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On 2012-12-01 02:36:40 +0000, Alphonsus Jr. said:
> I use very few rest strokes. Is this cause for sadness? And does it
> indicate any modernist infection?
probably entirely depends on what you're playing. For example, in the
> I use very few rest strokes. Is this cause for sadness? And does it
> indicate any modernist infection?
book on Bach by Christoph Wolff i recall a particular passage where he
disliked rest strokes and that his music wasn't made for any. Of course
many people use them today liberally.
Essentially, it would completely depend on the situation.
--
-AlanTuring
dsi1
Dec 1, 2012, 3:06:28 AM12/1/12
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On 11/30/2012 4:36 PM, Alphonsus Jr. wrote:
> I use very few rest strokes. Is this cause for sadness? And does it indicate any modernist infection?
>
Your use of rest strokes is not an indication of the human condition any
> I use very few rest strokes. Is this cause for sadness? And does it indicate any modernist infection?
>
more than the color of my underwear (light grey) is. It's a illogical
statement.
However, the strokes you use should help you to create the sound you
hear in your head. It is that sound that will determine your strokes.
For a lot of kids, the sound that's in their head is murky. By the time
you get to be an adult, it should be well formed. For some reason,
you're talking as if you don't know how you're supposed to sound. You
might want to be concerned about this. I suppose that being murky is a
sad state to be in.
When I was a kid, I would listen to the members of the classical guitar
society play and knew from the start that I did not want to sound like
them. They had a one-dimensional, flat, sound with not a lot of
projection and presence. In my case, I want the main voice to pop. I'm
not aware whether or not I use a rest stoke, nor am I concerned about
the frequency of usage. What I do require is that the sound that's in my
head match what I play. If you can't hear in your head what you want to
sound like, you're doomed.
wollybird
Dec 1, 2012, 9:52:59 AM12/1/12
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On Nov 30, 8:36 pm, "Alphonsus Jr." <alphonsu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I use very few rest strokes. Is this cause for sadness? And does it indicate any modernist infection?
they're kind of like cowbells. Depends on the tune
> I use very few rest strokes. Is this cause for sadness? And does it indicate any modernist infection?
Fadosolrélamisi
Dec 1, 2012, 11:18:54 AM12/1/12
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dsi1
Dec 1, 2012, 12:33:09 PM12/1/12
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On 12/1/2012 6:18 AM, Fadosolrélamisi wrote:
>
> I like that David, this is very good.
>
Thanks! I don't understand people's attitude about rest strokes. It's
>
> I like that David, this is very good.
>
treated like some kind of exotic thing but it's just a stroke. You'd
think it was some kind of big gun that you bring out only when you need
to kill an elephant. The truth is that rest strokes, like free strokes,
comes in many different calibers and there's a lot of overlap between
rest and free strokes when it comes to power level. The classical guitar
world is certainly goofy. Then again it's always been goofy. Why can't
we just be normal for a change?
Cactus Wren
Dec 1, 2012, 12:55:46 PM12/1/12
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The reason is that loud, fast rest stroke scales are the epitome of virtuosity and difficulty on the nylon-stringed guitar, as well as a closed door to the vast majority of players. The combination of exclusivity and athletic display account for their allure. They are impressive and startling in nearly equal measure to players and casual observers. While more an effect than a main part of the arsenal, when well-deployed, they can be devastatingly effective--for example, when Paco de Lucia uses a big 24 note scale at fff to end a piece. When fluid, fast lines that can soar and dip are combined with technical security, dynamic control, and projection and authority, they are a technical resource of great significance! Free stroke or half-free stroke scales just don't cut it, in this context.
Now, this is all my opinion... but what can I say, it sure is awesome!
Now, this is all my opinion... but what can I say, it sure is awesome!
dsi1
Dec 1, 2012, 1:24:20 PM12/1/12
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On 12/1/2012 7:55 AM, Cactus Wren wrote:
> The reason is that loud, fast rest stroke scales are the epitome of virtuosity and difficulty on the nylon-stringed guitar, as well as a closed door to the vast majority of players. The combination of exclusivity and athletic display account for their allure. They are impressive and startling in nearly equal measure to players and casual observers. While more an effect than a main part of the arsenal, when well-deployed, they can be devastatingly effective--for example, when Paco de Lucia uses a big 24 note scale at fff to end a piece. When fluid, fast lines that can soar and dip are combined with technical security, dynamic control, and projection and authority, they are a technical resource of great significance! Free stroke or half-free stroke scales just don't cut it, in this context.
>
> Now, this is all my opinion... but what can I say, it sure is awesome!
>
Thanks - now I get it! :-)
> The reason is that loud, fast rest stroke scales are the epitome of virtuosity and difficulty on the nylon-stringed guitar, as well as a closed door to the vast majority of players. The combination of exclusivity and athletic display account for their allure. They are impressive and startling in nearly equal measure to players and casual observers. While more an effect than a main part of the arsenal, when well-deployed, they can be devastatingly effective--for example, when Paco de Lucia uses a big 24 note scale at fff to end a piece. When fluid, fast lines that can soar and dip are combined with technical security, dynamic control, and projection and authority, they are a technical resource of great significance! Free stroke or half-free stroke scales just don't cut it, in this context.
>
> Now, this is all my opinion... but what can I say, it sure is awesome!
>
Alphonsus Jr.
Dec 1, 2012, 4:57:10 PM12/1/12
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On Saturday, December 1, 2012 9:55:46 AM UTC-8, Cactus Wren wrote:
> The reason is that loud, fast rest stroke scales are the epitome of virtuosity and difficulty on the nylon-stringed guitar, as well as a closed door to the vast majority of players. The combination of exclusivity and athletic display account for their allure. They are impressive and startling in nearly equal measure to players and casual observers. While more an effect than a main part of the arsenal, when well-deployed, they can be devastatingly effective--for example, when Paco de Lucia uses a big 24 note scale at fff to end a piece. When fluid, fast lines that can soar and dip are combined with technical security, dynamic control, and projection and authority, they are a technical resource of great significance! Free stroke or half-free stroke scales just don't cut it, in this context. Now, this is all my opinion... but what can I say, it sure is awesome!
>
No, this is not just your opinion. What you've stated is the truth, and it would remain the truth though the whole world denied it. In other words, it's right opinion.
> The reason is that loud, fast rest stroke scales are the epitome of virtuosity and difficulty on the nylon-stringed guitar, as well as a closed door to the vast majority of players. The combination of exclusivity and athletic display account for their allure. They are impressive and startling in nearly equal measure to players and casual observers. While more an effect than a main part of the arsenal, when well-deployed, they can be devastatingly effective--for example, when Paco de Lucia uses a big 24 note scale at fff to end a piece. When fluid, fast lines that can soar and dip are combined with technical security, dynamic control, and projection and authority, they are a technical resource of great significance! Free stroke or half-free stroke scales just don't cut it, in this context. Now, this is all my opinion... but what can I say, it sure is awesome!
>
David Raleigh Arnold
Dec 2, 2012, 3:53:08 PM12/2/12
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On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 18:36:40 -0800, Alphonsus Jr. wrote:
> I use very few rest strokes. Is this cause for sadness? And does it
> indicate any modernist infection?
No. Even in scale passages appoggiato often
> I use very few rest strokes. Is this cause for sadness? And does it
> indicate any modernist infection?
makes no sense. A scale which ends with a chord is
bound to have a disappointing tone on the ending
note. An appoggiato scale with bass notes is impractical because
the appoggiato thumb makes more difference in tone, and
both at once are impractical because it cannot be done
well. The thumb appoggiato won't be deep enough.
The ancients hardly ever used appoggiato with fingers, and
most used appoggiato with thumb. Mixing appoggiato with
tirato in the same line sounds inconsistent,
interferes with the independence of the line, and
causes the line to have no consistent character.
Appoggiato tends to heaviness. In a treble voice
it is best used
when there is only that one voice, and it is especially
beautiful when quite /piano/. Segovia was preoccupied
with playing loud, so he felt forced to eschew possibly
the best sound he could ever get from the instrument.
Appoggiato can be detrimental
to lines of a light character. None of this was
news to the ancients. One of the few pieces where
both thumb and annular appoggiato should be used
in the same piece is Carcassi Op. 60 #3. Notice
that the annular and thumb are not used at the
same time. That is not an accident. That appoggiato,
with the necessary hand motion,
is what you are supposed to be practicing in the Etude.
Segovia directed that scales be fingered appoggiato
because otherwise one wouldn't get enough practice
with it. You may do more fingerings as well, but you
should not ignore that advice altogether. You may
find that the my extended arpeggio set provides
sufficient balance because there is no appoggiato
there. Or you may not.
Regards, daveA
--
Guitar teaching materials and original music for all styles and levels.
Site: http://www.openguitar.com (()) eMail: d.raleig...@gmail.com
Contact: http://www.openguitar.com/contact.html"
David Raleigh Arnold
Dec 2, 2012, 3:53:38 PM12/2/12
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On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 18:36:40 -0800, Alphonsus Jr. wrote:
> I use very few rest strokes. Is this cause for sadness? And does it
> indicate any modernist infection?
> indicate any modernist infection?
David Raleigh Arnold
Dec 2, 2012, 3:55:17 PM12/2/12
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On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 18:36:40 -0800, Alphonsus Jr. wrote:
> I use very few rest strokes. Is this cause for sadness? And does it
> indicate any modernist infection?
> indicate any modernist infection?
Gerry
Dec 2, 2012, 9:20:38 PM12/2/12
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On 2012-12-02 20:55:17 +0000, David Raleigh Arnold said:
> On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 18:36:40 -0800, Alphonsus Jr. wrote:
>
>> I use very few rest strokes. Is this cause for sadness? And does it
>> indicate any modernist infection?
>
> No. Even in scale passages appoggiato often
> makes no sense.
You might want to do that you send this message three times, twice at
> On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 18:36:40 -0800, Alphonsus Jr. wrote:
>
>> I use very few rest strokes. Is this cause for sadness? And does it
>> indicate any modernist infection?
>
> No. Even in scale passages appoggiato often
> makes no sense.
12:53 and once at 12:55.
--
Music is the best means we have of digesting time. -- W. H. Auden
Alphonsus Jr.
Dec 2, 2012, 9:24:33 PM12/2/12
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To my ear, the beginning run on Capricho Arabe, for instance, sounds best with strong rest strokes.
David Raleigh Arnold
Dec 6, 2012, 2:21:57 PM12/6/12
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On Sun, 02 Dec 2012 18:20:38 -0800, Gerry wrote:
> On 2012-12-02 20:55:17 +0000, David Raleigh Arnold said:
>
>> On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 18:36:40 -0800, Alphonsus Jr. wrote:
>>
>>> I use very few rest strokes. Is this cause for sadness? And does it
>>> indicate any modernist infection?
>>
>> No. Even in scale passages appoggiato often makes no sense.
>
> You might want to do that you send this message three times, twice at
> 12:53 and once at 12:55.
Not my fault. A progress indicator was moving to and fro
> On 2012-12-02 20:55:17 +0000, David Raleigh Arnold said:
>
>> On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 18:36:40 -0800, Alphonsus Jr. wrote:
>>
>>> I use very few rest strokes. Is this cause for sadness? And does it
>>> indicate any modernist infection?
>>
>> No. Even in scale passages appoggiato often makes no sense.
>
> You might want to do that you send this message three times, twice at
> 12:53 and once at 12:55.
the whole time with no indication that a message was sent.
dsi1
Dec 6, 2012, 4:28:55 PM12/6/12
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On 12/6/2012 9:21 AM, David Raleigh Arnold wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Dec 2012 18:20:38 -0800, Gerry wrote:
>
>> On 2012-12-02 20:55:17 +0000, David Raleigh Arnold said:
>>
>>> On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 18:36:40 -0800, Alphonsus Jr. wrote:
>>>
>>>> I use very few rest strokes. Is this cause for sadness? And does it
>>>> indicate any modernist infection?
>>>
>>> No. Even in scale passages appoggiato often makes no sense.
>>
>> You might want to do that you send this message three times, twice at
>> 12:53 and once at 12:55.
>
> Not my fault. A progress indicator was moving to and fro
> the whole time with no indication that a message was sent.
> Regards, daveA
>
The NNTP servers are unreliable these days, at least, mine are. I would
> On Sun, 02 Dec 2012 18:20:38 -0800, Gerry wrote:
>
>> On 2012-12-02 20:55:17 +0000, David Raleigh Arnold said:
>>
>>> On Fri, 30 Nov 2012 18:36:40 -0800, Alphonsus Jr. wrote:
>>>
>>>> I use very few rest strokes. Is this cause for sadness? And does it
>>>> indicate any modernist infection?
>>>
>>> No. Even in scale passages appoggiato often makes no sense.
>>
>> You might want to do that you send this message three times, twice at
>> 12:53 and once at 12:55.
>
> Not my fault. A progress indicator was moving to and fro
> the whole time with no indication that a message was sent.
> Regards, daveA
>
have thought that they could just rent their servers from Amazon or
Google but this does not appear to be the case. I frequently get time
out and refusal of service errors. It ain't like it was in the old days,
that's for sure.
On another matter, I'm looking for web hosting for a small site. Do you
have any recommendations? I'm paying $12.50/month and that's making me
feel like a big sucker. My requirements are quite low so any basic plan
would work for me. I would like to be able to make changes to the site
24/7 without any hassles. That would be nice.
thomas
Dec 7, 2012, 8:36:52 AM12/7/12
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Nate Najar
Dec 7, 2012, 2:36:39 PM12/7/12
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On Friday, November 30, 2012 9:36:40 PM UTC-5, Alphonsus Jr. wrote:
> I use very few rest strokes. Is this cause for sadness? And does it indicate any modernist infection?
being primarily a "jazz on the classical guitar" player I use rest stroke most of the time for single note playing. Although lately, as my free stroke has been getting much more solid, I have been trying to use more free stroke to facilitate transitions between single lines and chords/arpeggios. With a drummer and bass player, I very much like the round, full "weight" you get from a rest stroke, especially when you don't whack it too hard (which chokes the sound). like others have said, the appropriate stroke is the one that gives the sound you are intending to achieve. I agree with you about the capricho arabe because that is how I first heard it played so it has stuck with me.... That said, it seems much of the repertoire can be played sans rest stroke and be quite convincing, all other factors being equal. But if you want a particular sound on a note and the rest stroke is the way to achieve it, then use the rest stroke dammit!
> I use very few rest strokes. Is this cause for sadness? And does it indicate any modernist infection?
dsi1
Dec 7, 2012, 4:02:41 PM12/7/12
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On 12/7/2012 3:36 AM, thomas wrote:
>
> Google Sites is free. Google App Engine is free unless you get a lot of traffic. Dreamhost is a real good traditional hosting company.
>
Thanks for the info. My traffic is like a small stream but it's a
>
> Google Sites is free. Google App Engine is free unless you get a lot of traffic. Dreamhost is a real good traditional hosting company.
>
commercial site so it doesn't seem like Google offers free hosting. I
will check out dreamhost.com. Boy, the sites that offer web hosting sure
look sleazy, and they dangle $1.99 hosting in your face. I'm wary...
David Raleigh Arnold
Dec 13, 2012, 12:44:49 PM12/13/12
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On Sun, 02 Dec 2012 18:24:33 -0800, Alphonsus Jr. wrote:
> To my ear, the beginning run on Capricho Arabe, for instance, sounds
> best with strong rest strokes.
When you repeat it pianissimo, the contrast in timbre between the
> To my ear, the beginning run on Capricho Arabe, for instance, sounds
> best with strong rest strokes.
appoggiato and the slurs is too great IMO. Starting ppp and
repeating pp is effective, especially if the harmonics are
nice and loud, but not for the concert hall
without a sound system. That should not be a problem today,
but most slavishly imitate Segovia, whether he was at
his best or not.
Try it.
ktaylor
Dec 17, 2012, 5:52:40 PM12/17/12
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On Friday, November 30, 2012 8:36:40 PM UTC-6, Alphonsus Jr. wrote:
> I use very few rest strokes. Is this cause for sadness? And does it indicate any modernist infection?
it seems to come and go.
> I use very few rest strokes. Is this cause for sadness? And does it indicate any modernist infection?
About 12 years ago I brought a group of kids to an ensemble festival and competition. There were four judges: 2 were good guitarists, 1 a rest stroker and the other a Shearer student who eschewed rest stroke. The other two judges was a voice teacher and a horn teacher. They all commented on how good and robust the tone and volume was, even for the little ones. The Shearerite criticized their technique for specifically using rest strokes (after all it was part music). He didn't like the tone/volume. It was the only negatives they got. Whatyagonnado?
About the same time I was discussing the rest stroke/free stroke issue with Isaac Bustos, who was studying with Holzman at the time. Much to my surprise he said, "The days of the free-stroke only are over." When I asked him why he thinks that, he mentioned the studio guys at UT who never learned from the rest-stroke tradition coming up to him and asking him to show them how to do rest-stroke because of the tonal, texture and speed difference (though free-strokers can go just as fast).
I have developed two curricula: one for the elementary aged child, which begins with rest stroke and a high school curriculum which doesn't. The high school kids don't really connect with the sound and the tone until rest-stroke is subsequently introduced. At that point music (and this part music: single line) starts to happen for the students.
I think both technologies must be taught for different reasons and so I teach both technologies - each when the time is right for the student.
Kevin Taylor
thomas
Dec 17, 2012, 6:09:16 PM12/17/12
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On Monday, December 17, 2012 5:52:40 PM UTC-5, ktaylor wrote:
>
> I think both technologies must be taught for different reasons and so I teach both technologies - each when the time is right for the student.
>
Consult a dictionary.
>
> I think both technologies must be taught for different reasons and so I teach both technologies - each when the time is right for the student.
>
Alphonsus Jr.
Dec 17, 2012, 6:22:50 PM12/17/12
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dsi1
Dec 17, 2012, 6:37:39 PM12/17/12
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those guys that that played in our guitar society that lacked definition
and presence. The guitarists that I connected to had dynamic and clearly
stated melody lines and were bold in their intentions and commanded your
attention. Unless that's your cup of tea, and you believe in this,
there's little chance that you'll see much value in this stroke nor will
you be able to really integrate it. Like a lot of things, it has to
originate from your mind first.
It's not that difficult to make this clear to your students. Just play a
short section of Capricho Arabe using free strokes and then the same
section using rest strokes. This piece is a prefect demo for rest
strokes. Let the students decide for themselves which they prefer.
That's pretty much all you have to do. That small seed could stay with
them all their lives. They might reject the rest stroke and that's OK too.
Alphonsus Jr.
Dec 17, 2012, 7:11:10 PM12/17/12
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If a teacher were OK with this disordered state of his students' souls, he'd be a bad teacher. Further, he'd be the opposite of compassionate, and definitely not open-minded. For the truly compassionate and open-minded man constantly discriminates, never ceasing to sweep away every cloud of error that might obscure his vision of the sun of truth and love. This extends to the vision of his students. A fundamental part of the teacher's mission is to remove the cataracts from the eyes of his students' souls.
No need for any objections or insults. I understand that what I've just said is entirely foreign, and thus ridiculous, to minds processed by today's disintegration.
thomas
Dec 17, 2012, 7:15:12 PM12/17/12
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Alphonsus Jr.
Dec 17, 2012, 7:16:25 PM12/17/12
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dsi1
Dec 17, 2012, 7:22:36 PM12/17/12
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On 12/17/2012 2:11 PM, Alphonsus Jr. wrote:
>
> Unfortunately, it's most likely - especially in this debased age - that the tastes of these students haven't been properly directed and cultivated. Thus it's unlikely that their preference would be sound.
>
> If a teacher were OK with this disordered state of his students' souls, he'd be a bad teacher. Further, he'd be the opposite of compassionate, and definitely not open-minded. For the truly compassionate and open-minded man constantly discriminates, never ceasing to sweep away every cloud of error that might obscure his vision of the sun of truth and love. This extends to the vision of his students. A fundamental part of the teacher's mission is to remove the cataracts from the eyes of his students' souls.
>
> No need for any objections or insults. I understand that what I've just said is entirely foreign, and thus ridiculous, to minds processed by today's disintegration.
>
You are right that this is not my way of thinking. No objections or
>
> Unfortunately, it's most likely - especially in this debased age - that the tastes of these students haven't been properly directed and cultivated. Thus it's unlikely that their preference would be sound.
>
> If a teacher were OK with this disordered state of his students' souls, he'd be a bad teacher. Further, he'd be the opposite of compassionate, and definitely not open-minded. For the truly compassionate and open-minded man constantly discriminates, never ceasing to sweep away every cloud of error that might obscure his vision of the sun of truth and love. This extends to the vision of his students. A fundamental part of the teacher's mission is to remove the cataracts from the eyes of his students' souls.
>
> No need for any objections or insults. I understand that what I've just said is entirely foreign, and thus ridiculous, to minds processed by today's disintegration.
>
insults are forthcoming unless you make some disparaging personal
remark. I'm not interested in discussing your point of view because
that's your business, not mine.
Simply stated, the teacher's goal is not to teach much of anything but
to help the student learn for himself. He's not there to teach good or
bad or right or wrong. They should teach what is and what can be.
Slogoin
Dec 17, 2012, 7:31:43 PM12/17/12
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On Dec 17, 4:22 pm, dsi1 <ds...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote:
>
> Simply stated, the teacher's goal is not to teach much of anything but
> to help the student learn for himself. He's not there to teach good or
> bad or right or wrong. They should teach what is and what can be.
LOL! Obviously you have not actually taught any kids in a classroom.
>
> Simply stated, the teacher's goal is not to teach much of anything but
> to help the student learn for himself. He's not there to teach good or
> bad or right or wrong. They should teach what is and what can be.
thomas
Dec 17, 2012, 7:32:11 PM12/17/12
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On Monday, December 17, 2012 7:16:25 PM UTC-5, Alphonsus Jr. wrote:
>
> Are you really unaware that this word is fundamentally Greek?
It's no surprise to me that you're into Greek.
>
> Are you really unaware that this word is fundamentally Greek?
dsi1
Dec 17, 2012, 7:34:16 PM12/17/12
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adults. Point taken.
dsi1
Dec 17, 2012, 7:40:11 PM12/17/12
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Greece help?
That joke just kills 'em in Bulgaria.
Slogoin
Dec 17, 2012, 8:50:26 PM12/17/12
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On Dec 17, 4:34 pm, dsi1 <ds...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote:
>
> It's not a situation that I would put myself into. I teach adults.
Sure you do and Jackson teaches us adults too. You guys are so
>
> It's not a situation that I would put myself into. I teach adults.
funny and then there's MT dude. This comic strip is full of great
minds...
dsi1
Dec 17, 2012, 8:55:19 PM12/17/12
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with some better bait. Good luck!
Slogoin
Dec 17, 2012, 9:02:03 PM12/17/12
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On Dec 17, 5:55 pm, dsi1 <ds...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote:
>
> Sorry pal, your troll is so clumsy that I can't bite.
You weren't trolling!!!! I thought you were just trying to be a
>
> Sorry pal, your troll is so clumsy that I can't bite.
RMCG troll again by telling teachers how lame we are and how much
better you can do it.
Cactus Wren
Dec 17, 2012, 9:25:09 PM12/17/12
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Alphonsus Jr.
Dec 17, 2012, 11:35:28 PM12/17/12
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On Monday, December 17, 2012 4:22:36 PM UTC-8, dsi1 wrote:
> Simply stated, the teacher's goal is not to teach much of anything but
>
> to help the student learn for himself. He's not there to teach good or
>
> bad or right or wrong. They should teach what is and what can be.
You say so much that could provide launch points for essay and indeed book-length analyses of the breakdown of Western civilization. Here you've done it again. Your suicidal "value-free" conception of "teaching" is very much a part of this decomposition.
> Simply stated, the teacher's goal is not to teach much of anything but
>
> to help the student learn for himself. He's not there to teach good or
>
> bad or right or wrong. They should teach what is and what can be.
dsi1
Dec 18, 2012, 12:17:43 AM12/18/12
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anything other than objections, insults, and personal remarks? Nope?
Well OK then. :-)
David Raleigh Arnold
Dec 20, 2012, 11:57:13 AM12/20/12
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with grown students. Best to learn to play in the
way that you will do most of your playing.
Carcassi clearly thought so too. Regards, daveA
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