Allegretto semplice
arys
"Allegretto semplice".
I can understand the meaning of 'semplice' when it defines slower
tempi, but how does it define a faster tempo? Or perhaps a Mozart
reference?
-MK
Michael Fogler
Semplice is not about tempo. It means simple or with simplicity.
Allegretto is the tempo marking. Semplice is more of a feeling to go
with it.
--
Michael Fogler
http://michaelfogler.com
arys
wrote:
Of course I know the translation but I can't relate to the philosophy
behind it when it defines a piece with a faster tempo marking. Maybe
some extreme counter-example would be "adagio furioso"... I actually
checked my record collection and couldn't find anything but Adagio,
Andante or Lento semplice pieces.
But I have thought about this for the day and I think that my original
mindset for semplice is just wrong and I have to rethink it...
And I checked after writing this, and there does exist a Piano Sonata
with an opening movement 'Adagio furioso' :)
-MK
Michael Fogler
On 2010-02-12 08:13:44 -0500, arys said:
Semplice is not about tempo. �It means simple or with simplicity. �
Allegretto is the tempo marking. �Semplice is more of a feeling to go
with it.
--
Michael Foglerhttp://michaelfogler.com
Of course I know the translation but I can't relate to the philosophy
behind it when it defines a piece with a faster tempo marking. Maybe
some extreme counter-example would be "adagio furioso"... I actually
checked my record collection and couldn't find anything but Adagio,
Andante or Lento semplice pieces.
But I have thought about this for the day and I think that my original
mindset for semplice is just wrong and I have to rethink it...
And I checked after writing this, and there does exist a Piano Sonata
with an opening movement 'Adagio furioso' :)
-MK
Perhaps you're thinking that Allegretto is faster than it is. � I've always thought of Allegretto as a moderate tempo. � If fast is desired then the marking would be Allegro.� I see no contradiction between semplice and Allegretto, or any other tempo marking for that matter. �
David Raleigh Arnold
Piano has a common ancestor with plain and plane. When in a car that
is going too fast, a passenger might say "Piano!", meaning to drive
more plainly, or simply, or slowly if you will. There is some hint of
"semplice" meaning to play a bit slower than the literal translation
would immediately indicate.
Not that I disagree with you at all. I don't. Regards, daveA
--
For beginners: very easy guitar music, solos, duets, exercises. Early
intermediate guitar solos. One best scale set for all guitarists.
http://www.openguitar.com/scalescomparison.html ::: plus new and
better chord and arpeggio exercises. http://www.openguitar.com
arys
wrote:
> On 2010-02-12 08:13:44 -0500, arys said:
>
>
>
>
>
> >> Allegretto is the tempo marking. �Semplice is more of a feeling to go
> >> with it.
> >> --
> >> Michael Foglerhttp://michaelfogler.com
>
> > Of course I know the translation but I can't relate to the philosophy
> > behind it when it defines a piece with a faster tempo marking. Maybe
> > some extreme counter-example would be "adagio furioso"... I actually
> > checked my record collection and couldn't find anything but Adagio,
> > Andante or Lento semplice pieces.
>
> > But I have thought about this for the day and I think that my original
> > mindset for semplice is just wrong and I have to rethink it...
>
> > And I checked after writing this, and there does exist a Piano Sonata
> > with an opening movement 'Adagio furioso' :)
>
> > -MK
>
> Perhaps you're thinking that Allegretto is faster than it is. I've
> always thought of Allegretto as a moderate tempo. If fast is desired
> then the marking would be Allegro. I see no contradiction between
> semplice and Allegretto, or any other tempo marking for that matter.
> --
> Michael Foglerhttp://michaelfogler.com
What do you think about the chosen tempo in this nice performance?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS8o-K_Yeko
Of course I wouldn't use any performance as a model but a bit of
insight doesn't hurt. I'd play it faster but if this performance is
going on the upper limits of accepted tempo I'll slow down.
-MK
ag
"Allegretto" describes the movement, "semplice" describes the
character of the piece - at least in the composer's mind.
However, take it as you feel it. Composers have generally wrong ideas
about how their pieces should be performed.
Toscanini to Ravel: you do not understand anything of your music.
ag
fol...@yahoo.com
I saw the review of Cristiano's of your Studi in Classical Guitar.
The reviewer wrote that you are little known outside Italy!
I can't think of a guitarist I have met that does not know who you
are.
mark
Slogoin
>
> I can't think of a guitarist I have met that does not know who you are.
I know some and some are even "classical" guitarists. I think I'm
the only one who has played any AG or MD for our local CG group. How
sad is that? Not one of the many GFA winners who played for us had any
AG of MD on their programs. When I met Lorenzo Micheli he had not
played any of AG's but that's changed.
I must confess that I put off learning AG's music for a long time
after Klaus Heim had said how wonderful his music was and that was
only because of AG's generosity. I'm a little slow sometimes :-0
ag
> Hi Angelo,
>
> I saw the review of Cristiano's of your Studi in Classical Guitar.
>
> The reviewer wrote that you are little known outside Italy!
>
> I can't think of a guitarist I have met that does not know who you
> are.
>
I am very well known outside Italy: I belong to the mailing list of
some hundreds sellers of books and softwares, and all of them write me
often very warm messages, always beginning with "Dear Angelo".
Another sign of my celebrity is the half dozen stalkers I have among
guitarists who are for sure unaware of my work, but who nevertheless
made their best efforts to disseminate in the net and elsewhere
injuries about them and also about me - without the slightest reason:
this is perhaps the most eloquent sign that I am known -
unfortunately.
I haven't read the review you mention - and I will not bother reading
it, but I bet it has been written by a guitarist who is also a
composer. Am I wrong?
ag
ag
Good music has no hurry. Forgive me, dear Larry, if I am as usually
outspoken: the profile of guitar competition winners - a few
exceptions taken - is closer to sport than to music, and for a
composer of good music not having his/her works featured in their
programs is far from being a misfortune. Also the not guilty author of
some decent composition lives in the danger of being pearlharboured...
ag
ag
tom gutierrez
some intelligent people who disagree with him as musicologist and such
and dont like his attitude when he answers them. But these persons are
not stalkers, they just disagree with him or say when he is wrong. Maybe
there are some stalkers with bad intentions but I have not seen them, at
least in spanish and english. Anyway, for certain if people disagree
with you, its not a sign of celebrity.
tom g
ag
Very clever. Illuminating, I would say.
ag
fol...@yahoo.com
Yes, a guitarist/composer.
fol...@yahoo.com
become aware of something new and maybe even good. It is the opposite
of the Stendhal Syndrome: instead of swooning, you get the feeling
they want to punch you in the face.
perhaps it should be calledthe Jake LaMotta Syndrome.
I know why. The most subversive thing one can do is create something
good.
When I gave my 3rd sonata to a well known guitarist, he used the word
"hubris" and said "who do you think you are, Brahms"
ag
Dogs bark, the caravan goes by.
ag
Carlos Barrientos
> On 14 Feb, 00:25, Slogoin<la...@deack.net> wrote:
>> On Feb 13, 2:24 pm, "foli...@yahoo.com"<foli...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> I can't think of a guitarist I have met that does not know who you are.
>>
>> I know some and some are even "classical" guitarists. I think I'm
>> the only one who has played any AG or MD for our local CG group. How
>> sad is that? Not one of the many GFA winners who played for us had any
>> AG of MD on their programs. When I met Lorenzo Micheli he had not
>> played any of AG's but that's changed.
>>
>> I must confess that I put off learning AG's music for a long time
>> after Klaus Heim had said how wonderful his music was and that was
>> only because of AG's generosity. I'm a little slow sometimes :-0
>
> Good music has no hurry. Forgive me, dear Larry, if I am as usually
> outspoken: the profile of guitar competition winners - a few
> exceptions taken - is closer to sport than to music,
Here, and elsewher I have long echoed AG's sentiment that what we do is
an art form AND not a sport.
>and for a
> composer of good music not having his/her works featured in their
> programs is far from being a misfortune.
In your case, that's understood.
In my case, well, one writes because one must regardless of the public's
reception.
Also the not guilty author of
> some decent composition lives in the danger of being pearlharboured...
AG, my grandfather would say: "All day long, you could give a passerby a
gold coin and a happy greeting from your doorway and SOMEBODY would
complain!"
One can never win!
>
> ag
>
> ag
--
Carlos Barrientos
"mailto:carlosgu...@gmail.com"
Phone: (229) 594-6374
Alain Reiher
<fol...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:31d8653e-8226-46b6...@w31g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
Yes, a guitarist/composer.
=================
Now this is the height of the negative connotation associated with the
association of these two words!!! I have ever seen! Am I wrong if I read in
between the lines and hear something lime a composer/guitarist is equivalent
to a kind of second class composer!
I do not think it could be use elsewhere ... like pianist/composer ... or
violinist/composer ... If I am not mistaken, a musicologist would say that
Chopin wrote only for piano, or that Paganini practically wrote only for
violin ... but associating two words and injecting them with the meaning of
a lesser category is unique to this world of the classical guitar ... a
world where a frustrated life condition abound ...
So ... the question is ... who coined these two words together for the first
time? Was it here, in rmcg?
Alain
Slogoin
>
> Good music has no hurry. Forgive me, dear Larry, if I am as usually
> outspoken: the profile of guitar competition winners - a few
> exceptions taken - is closer to sport than to music, and for a
> composer of good music not having his/her works featured in their
> programs is far from being a misfortune. Also the not guilty author of
> some decent composition lives in the danger of being pearlharboured...
I admit being a bit slow to understand things. Life is so short yet
so many people seem to spend so much time and energy attacking others
they see as a threat.
Slogoin
>
> When I gave my 3rd sonata to a well known guitarist, he used the word
> "hubris" and said "who do you think you are, Brahms"
Fascinating! When I met you I was struck by your physical size
contrasting with the gentle vibe you seemed to radiate. I could sense
an intensity under that vibe but did not sense any "hubris". It's hard
for me to think of you as threatening to any person or critter but it
sounds like that guitarist was intimidated. I'm curious to know if he
was physically smaller than you?
arys
Mark, I haven't seen your published numbered Sonatas. Do they contain
left-hand fingering?
-Matti Karjalainen
ag
> <foli...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Alain, if a respected composer - like Penderecki - would announce that
tomorrow evening he will give a guitar recital, nobody would question
his stature as a composer, but everybody would observe that not even
a great musician like him can improvise the skills which enable a
musician to be also a guitarist and to give a guitar recital.
Guitarists are the unique category of musicians in the world who
maintain that it is possible to become a composer from evening to
morning, with no other obligation than deciding this; and the pieces
many of them compose and publish are unavoidably of the category of
the guitar recital given by the composer who ever studied guitar. This
is why the expression "guitarist-composer" sounds nuancée, and
different from the expression "pianist-composer", if this latter would
exist. Last week, I gave to a guitarist a warm suggestion to enter a
regular activity as a composer. He is doubtful, in spite of the
evidence of his musical imagination. I know why: because he is a very
good guitarist, and he knows how hard and sticky has been earning his
abilities, and he wisely wonders why he could do the same with another
musical job - no less demanding than the guitar. Wouldn't he be the
first class guitarist he is, he would surely and happily go to
announce to the guitar world that, since tomorrow morning, he is a
guitarist-composer.
ag
Tommy Grand
> Guitarists are the unique category of musicians in the world who
> maintain that it is possible to become a composer from evening to
> morning, with no other obligation than deciding this
Friend ag, what else is required? For example, describe your personal
journey from guitarist to composer. Did you take special classes?
ag
What else? Studying composition, of course. No, I did not take any
special lesson, I took normal lessons since when I was 19 for several
years, with a composer-organist who taught me harmony, counterpoint,
forms.
Composition, as all the other arts, is built upon technique, and
cannot be improvised. It can be simulated, with the same results
achieved by one who adopts a name like Rodriguez and decides he is s a
torero. Hasta otra, Tom g.
Alain Reiher
"ag" <calat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4f9738e2-473e-44fc...@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
is why the expression "guitarist-composer" sounds nuanc�e, and
different from the expression "pianist-composer", if this latter would
exist. Last week, I gave to a guitarist a warm suggestion to enter a
regular activity as a composer. He is doubtful, in spite of the
evidence of his musical imagination. I know why: because he is a very
good guitarist, and he knows how hard and sticky has been earning his
abilities, and he wisely wonders why he could do the same with another
musical job - no less demanding than the guitar. Wouldn't he be the
first class guitarist he is, he would surely and happily go to
announce to the guitar world that, since tomorrow morning, he is a
guitarist-composer.
ag
==================================
To me the uniqueness of the guitarists is manifested in their (our)
inability to accept the instrument for what it is ... but that is another
subject of discussion.
I am not sure if I am satisfied by your answer ... The negative connotation
brought by the association of the two words remains ...and I am still
wondering it's foction ... Is it was a sin to integrate the art of
composition while being an instrumentalist? It is important to acknowlege
the fact that Guitarists/composers are plentiful in the young history of our
instrument and that it did started with the lutenist/composers ... way back
then ... I mean the plucked strings instruments are harmonically self
sufficient enough to have kept a handful of busy natured souls to compose
for it ... and the progression is real ... from Weiss, Dowland, Sor, Mertz,
Tarrega, to Barrios ... just to name a few ...
Out of the rigid frame of normative obligation ...music is an art that
belongs to and which is unique to our human race!
It's true purpose cannot be define into a singular one ...
I really think that the term Guitarist/composer has been purposedly teinted
with a hint of a disparaging meaning ... Why? Well ... This is what I am
trying to elucidate here!
Alain
Slogoin
>
> I really think that the term Guitarist/composer has been purposedly teinted
> with a hint of a disparaging meaning ... Why? Well ... This is what I am
> trying to elucidate here!
You forgot Berlioz, perhaps because he is not known as a Guitarist/
composer, which may be part of your answer.
ag
>
> I really think that the term Guitarist/composer has been purposedly teinted
> with a hint of a disparaging meaning ...
>
> Alain
If so, not by me and not according to my own views. Actually, I have
just written a book - commissioned by a major publisher, which aims to
have it translated into several languages and diffused all the world
over - whose purpose is introducing to audiences which are well
acquainted with the orchestra, the piano, etc., the repertoire of the
guitar: As you know, until the end of 19th century, it was almost
exclusively a domain of guitarist-composers. This term happens hundred
times in my writing, and never with a negative nuance. In fact, I
believe that history of music is in a debt with the figures of authors
such as Sor and Giuliani - not to mention several figures in the 20th
century - which have not been considered for their real values, and I
have tried to draw their profiles so as to stimulated the good
listeners to get acquainted also with their works, instead of buying
another recording of Chopin Preludes.
As I tried to explain, the definition guitarist-composers has fallen
under suspect due to the enormous amount of silly pieces written by
Sunday guitarists whose naivete is not just a musical fact, but a way
of being and living: and music world is small, sensitive,
unremitting...
ag
anacephalic
The guitar world suffers from a cult-mentality. In order to be a
composer, as freud said: woll es war soll ich werden. In other words
WE don't speak through it, it speaks through us. The cult on the
other hand, being deeply devolved and as ag said *unremitting* is a
cult of perfectionist ideals and repressed sexuality. In order to
escape and be a real composer, one has to walk a minefield, which ag
has clearly done. Please see my thread on hero worship. The cult
speaks through *it* as it were; highly devolved typical academic
mastery which has no real exchange except the exchange of ideas,
specie, and other graft.
As harvard professor Robert Nozick so clearly stated: Politics is
*poly * tics*; that is to say, little itchy bloodsuckers.
Alain Reiher
I am looking forward to see that book!
And absolutely Yes to your definition of Guitarists composers! (Seeing the
world as pure or impure reside in the mind of the person, and I am glad to
see that your vision is just!) I do indeed feel indebt towards many
guitarists composers of the past ... after all it's because of their music
that I love this instrument so much ...
It is definitely hard, and it will become harder and harder for those who
have the talent to couple a career of a concert player and a composer ...
there are not too many guides to help someone who wants to embark on such a
journey ...
As for the smallness of the musical world ... no matter how small it can be
... it will always be bigger than the size of one individual ... I would
hope that fate would be kind enough to have one of my last cremated dust
particle to float all the way to France and ending on the soil near the
tumbstone of Sor!
That would make my day!
[;o)
Alain
fol...@yahoo.com
I have become bigger since I last saw you. Not taller, just wider!
Actually, with these small guitar magazines, you have a consistent
problem of conflict of interests.
For example, Graham Wade (and Colin Cooper) said some things about me
concerning some program notes I wrote for Jeremy Jouve's Naxos CD.
Wade implied that I was not "vigilant and scrupulous" and gave wrong
info supporting this. Colin Cooper had a legitimate issue that I
addressed in a letter to the editor that CG has so far failed to
print.
Now, Cooper and Wade both write notes regularly for Naxos and perhaps
they are P.O.'d that I work away from them. I told a journalist friend
of mine about this situation and he just laughed at the obvious
conflict of interest involved here.
Can you imagine the hits an editor and/or publisher would take from
reviewers that perhaps submitted works in the past and were rejected
for whatever reason?
Can you imagine the sour grapes?
B
Stanley Yates
long experience has taught me to ignore stupid people (which in our field is
most of them). Of course, I often do not follow my own advice, but I do pay
attention to my intelligent critics. We learn from the stupid ones as well,
but not in a way they could imagine.
sy
"ag" <calat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4f9738e2-473e-44fc...@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
is why the expression "guitarist-composer" sounds nuanc�e, and
fol...@yahoo.com
internet search revealed clearly that a regular contributer of
articles was a paid agent and that this paid agent mentioned their
client at every opportunity?
On Feb 14, 9:32 pm, "Stanley Yates" <i...@StanleyYates.com> wrote:
> If I dare to offer unsolicited advice it should be from experience and my
> long experience has taught me to ignore stupid people (which in our field is
> most of them). Of course, I often do not follow my own advice, but I do pay
> attention to my intelligent critics. We learn from the stupid ones as well,
> but not in a way they could imagine.
>
> sy
>
> "ag" <calatrav...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> is why the expression "guitarist-composer" sounds nuancée, and
Slogoin
> What would you say about a particular guitar publication that a simple
> internet search revealed clearly that a regular contributer of
> articles was a paid agent and that this paid agent mentioned their
> client at every opportunity?
Business, as usual.
ag
> If I dare to offer unsolicited advice it should be from experience and my
> long experience has taught me to ignore stupid people (which in our field is
> most of them). Of course, I often do not follow my own advice, but I do pay
> attention to my intelligent critics. We learn from the stupid ones as well,
> but not in a way they could imagine.
>
> sy
Thankyou Stanley, actually I did not read that review at all, and a
private message received a few hours ago informs me - unnecessarily,
still kindly - that it is not a "bad" review at all, but this is not
the point.
Mark underlined a curious remark of that review - I believed of having
answered as a joke, but perhaps I was taken too seriously. You know,
during these last three days I have spent all my time far from music,
trying to install and to get acquainted with a new I Mac 27", which I
bought after 15 years of Windows pains, and in the effort I have
perhaps missed my sense of the measure - if I ever had one. Ciao.
ag
fol...@yahoo.com
I see from time to time one of the top New York Times critics.
I am going to ask if reporters are allowed to take money from people
in return for a mention.
Also, I will ask if it is ethical for a reviewer to review a film
after the producer or director had business with them via a submitted
screen pay or something.
Slogoin
>
> Can you imagine the sour grapes?
I have a hard time understanding much of what humans do to each
other.
fol...@yahoo.com
I was just amused that it mentioned that you were little known outside
Italy. I guess we in the U.S. do not count..after all you received a
prestigious award from the GFA!
Slogoin
>
> I see from time to time one of the top New York Times critics.
> I am going to ask if reporters are allowed to take money from people
> in return for a mention.
> Also, I will ask if it is ethical for a reviewer to review a film
> after the producer or director had business with them via a submitted
> screen pay or something.
Ethics? In business (or politics)???
Here's their official line.
http://www.nytco.com/press/ethics.html
If you read it you will notice the word "appearance" appears in a
number of cases relating to insider information.
We are in an age where ethics is whatever someone can get away with.
Some kids actually think the only thing they did wrong when caught
cheating on a test is being caught.
Stanley Yates
sy
<fol...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f73fa041-ed0b-48f9...@b18g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> is why the expression "guitarist-composer" sounds nuanc�e, and
Slogoin
> I'd sat we live in a very small (guitar) world!
All human worlds are small.
dave payne
> What would you say about a particular guitar publication that a simple
> internet search revealed clearly that a regular contributer of
> articles was a paid agent and that this paid agent mentioned their
> client at every opportunity?
That business can be almost as bad for music as it can be for science :) .
Dave Payne
wuxiaoxin_a t_rogers_do t_com
ag
> No, it is not a bad review at all...I thought you would have seen it.
> I was just amused that it mentioned that you were little known outside
> Italy. I guess we in the U.S. do not count..after all you received a
> prestigious award from the GFA!
>
> On Feb 14, 10:30 pm, ag <calatrav...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > ag
Take example from wise people like T.S. Eliot and Henry James, and
move to Great Britain, Mark - then you will get universal fame.
Otherwise, you won't be known outside USA.
ag