New guitar arrived - La Patrie Motif

[edspyhill09]

Yesterday I took delivery of a used La Patrie Motif Classical Guitar. It is a parlor size body with a standard string length, 650mm. Has a 24" radius rosewood fingerboard, mahogany neck, laminated mahogany back and sides, solid Cedar top. I bought it to test my capability of returning to playing CG. So far my OCD about string length over the past 4 years was wasted. I think my body's frame and flexibility worked too hard to overcome the size of my Pavan TP-30's large body.

I bought it with the thought that if it worked out I would be ordering a better parlor sized guitar, but so far I have no complaints. It may remain my primary guitar. (I'm getting too old to chase the perfect guitar.) The voice of the guitar is not as big as my TP-30 but I love that all the strings have equal and balanced output. Has good treble response without a booming base.

I'm starting with vol. 1 of Alexandre Tansman's"Douze morceaux tres faciles pour guitare". It feels so good to be reading sheet music, memorizing fingerings, following dynamics markings, adding interpretation.

Ed S.

[Tommy Grand]

On Tuesday, November 6, 2012 12:30:29 PM UTC-6, edspyhill09 wrote:
> Yesterday I took delivery of a used La Patrie Motif Classical Guitar. It is a parlor size body with a standard string length, 650mm. Has a 24" radius rosewood fingerboard, mahogany neck, laminated mahogany back and sides, solid Cedar top. I bought it to test my capability of returning to playing CG. So far my OCD about string length over the past 4 years was wasted. I think my body's frame and flexibility worked too hard to overcome the size of my Pavan TP-30's large body. I bought it with the thought that if it worked out I would be ordering a better parlor sized guitar, but so far I have no complaints. It may remain my primary guitar. (I'm getting too old to chase the perfect guitar.) The voice of the guitar is not as big as my TP-30 but I love that all the strings have equal and balanced output. Has good treble response without a booming base. I'm starting with vol. 1 of Alexandre Tansman's"Douze morceaux tres faciles pour guitare". It feels so good to be reading sheet music, memorizing fingerings, following dynamics markings, adding interpretation. Ed S.

Sounds like fun Ed! I hope you'll post a recording soon so that we can enjoy this guitar too. I plan to do so with my wonderful Thames Tornovoz guitar, just as soon as I start playing again.

[dsi1]

Congrats on the new guitar, sounds like my kind of guitar. The act of
reading guitar music is therapeutic for the mind although trying to read
some scores is aggravating.

[edspyhill09]

On Tuesday, November 6, 2012 1:30:29 PM UTC-5, edspyhill09 wrote:
> Yesterday I took delivery of a used La Patrie Motif Classical Guitar. It is a parlor size body with a standard string length, 650mm. Has a 24" radius rosewood fingerboard, mahogany neck, laminated mahogany back and sides, solid Cedar top. I bought it to test my capability of returning to playing CG. So far my OCD about string length over the past 4 years was wasted. I think my body's frame and flexibility worked too hard to overcome the size of my Pavan TP-30's large body.
>
>

<Edit>
>
> Ed S.

I have a question about using laminated wood for the back and sides. This guitar uses 3-ply laminated wood with the same wood as the middle laminate (mahogany). Apparently some imports use flake board as the middle layer. For a small guitar it has a very crisp voice, with tight, compact bass response using D'Addario hard tension basses (very subjective, I know). After putting on a set normal tension Titanium trebles, the treble response lost the tubby sound of the standard nylon trebles.

Are there any advantages to using quality laminated wood for the back and sides of less expensive guitars, non-concert models?

Ed S.

[dsi1]

My guess is the advantages are it's easier and cheaper to manufacture
backs and sides out of this type of laminate. It's nice stuff and it
gives these Canadian guitars it's characteristic built-like-a-tank feel.
The disadvantage is that traditionally, mahogany is used in the cheaper
guitars. Sonically, I don't think the material can be faulted, if your
intention is to build a guitar that's built like a tank with
non-resonant backs and sides.

[edspyhill09]

What also adds to the tank feel of the Motif is the truss rod it has in the neck. The truss rod doesn't affect balance but I think if makes the guitar more stable with the small amount of added weight.

There is a parlor guitar that I considered buying, sold by gustavo arias that is made in Argentina, all solid wood construction but the scale length is 620mm. I think I'll stifle may G.A.S. and stick with this Motif for awhile.

Ed S.

[dsi1]

I think the neck is a bolt-on which means there's probably a big block
of wood and a big bolt inside. I like the whole concept of solid build.
I wish they'd offer guitars with an optional lighter top. That would be
neat!

[dsi1]

I think the neck is a bolt-on which means there's probably a big block
of wood and a big bolt inside. I like the whole concept of solid
build. I wish they'd offer guitars with an optional lighter top. That
would be neat!

620mm sounds like a good length.

[Gerry]

On 2012-11-07 19:32:37 +0000, edspyhill09 said:

> There is a parlor guitar that I considered buying, sold by gustavo
> arias that is made in Argentina, all solid wood construction but the
> scale length is 620mm. I think I'll stifle may G.A.S. and stick with
> this Motif for awhile.

This Motif looks like fun. I love parlor-sized guitars, but am
reluctant these days to consider playing nylon strings again. Too
tough on my aging wrists. How much do the Arias instruments cost?
--
Music is the best means we have of digesting time. -- W. H. Auden

[edspyhill09]

The current price of the Arias 2A Parlor guitar is $1050.00. I'm not sure that I would buy that size guitar. Not without playing one for a week or two.

Ed S.

[edspyhill09]

It is a bolt-on neck with a steel string acoustic neck block.

I've been playing the Motif, but my Pavan TP-30 just sounds so much better. I'm sure an all solid wood Parlor guitar would sound much better than the Motif, but now I'm skeptical of a smaller body and shorter scale length. I now understand that it is much cheaper to buy a guitar on a trial basis and incur the shipping costs to return it. Beats buying guitars and selling them at a loss.

I've been using the GuitaREST support stuff on the Pavan so it sits on my right knee. For now it is working out for both arms and hands.

Ed S.

[edspyhill09]

I took up Yoga about 18 months ago and it has helped strengthen my wrists and shoulders. Still can't get up into a handstand and hold it.

It is a problem finding music stores with CG's to try out. I was looking to try a 7/8 size CG, but nobody has one in stock in Philadelphia and the surrounding suburbs, or New Jersey.

I've been using the GuitaREST support stuff on the Pavan so it sits on my right knee. For now it is working out ergonomically for both arms and hands - no twinges in my left elbow.

http://www.deoromusic.com/deoromusic/Guitar_Support.html

Ed S.

[Gerry]

On 2012-11-08 06:06:25 +0000, edspyhill09 said:

> I took up Yoga about 18 months ago and it has helped strengthen my
> wrists and shoulders.

Can you state what you are doing with your wrists thisaway? I do a
little yoga but I can't handle flatting my hand out without pain.
Instead I make a fist and place it straight down. It's not really
something one can do for the cobra, for example.

[dsi1]

On 11/7/2012 7:57 PM, edspyhill09 wrote:
>
> It is a bolt-on neck with a steel string acoustic neck block.
>
> I've been playing the Motif, but my Pavan TP-30 just sounds so much better. I'm sure an all solid wood Parlor guitar would sound much better than the Motif, but now I'm skeptical of a smaller body and shorter scale length. I now understand that it is much cheaper to buy a guitar on a trial basis and incur the shipping costs to return it. Beats buying guitars and selling them at a loss.
>
> I've been using the GuitaREST support stuff on the Pavan so it sits on my right knee. For now it is working out for both arms and hands.
>
> Ed S.
>

Hopefully you can find one that you're happy with. Most of them will not
sound that great. You'll just have to try them out. My guess is that a
good one is going to be pricy.

I don't know what can be done about playing the guitar and getting old.
Maybe absolutely nothing. We'll find out if this is true soon enough. It
outta be interesting.

[edspyhill09]

The basic poses that directly affect the wrists are cat/cow, downward facing dog, plank, side planks. These are just suggestions from a Yoga student, not a teacher. Start is what is called puppy pose with your hands out in front. Slowly transition to Cat/Cow pose. Stop when the wrists start to complain but not hurt. Hold that poses, then return to puppy pose.

Once you get full cat/cow, do the actual stretches, which will exercise the wrists. Doing cat/cow puts the least weight on your wrists since you are on your hands and knees, but it does bend the wrists back. Google cat/cow - many distracting ladies.

Downward facing dog might come next. You can transition from Puppy pose to downward facing dog to keep the pressure off the wrists. The wrists have more weight on them but they are not bent back at 90 degrees, more like ~120 degree open angle.

Once you feel comfortable in Downward facing dog, you could slowly transition from downward facing dog toward plank pose, moving forward a bit more each day and holding that pose.

There are wrist stretching exercises from Aikido. But I would proceed with caution. Have you talked to an orthopedic doctor about the issue? You might cause damage forcing the stretches. Send me an email with your general location and I can research if there are any Yoga teachers that specialize in therapeutic Yoga or Yoga Therapy in your area.

Here are 2 YouTube videos showing the Aikido stretches. I actually learned these from a Yoga teacher. But here again, do not force any of these stretches.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJVCt2hI-yo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmwqBMLVsjE

Ed S.

[edspyhill09]

Do the exercises in
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmwqBMLVsjE.

The other video by insaneduane are way too advanced.

Ed S.

[Gerry]

On 2012-11-08 16:44:39 +0000, edspyhill09 said:

>> Can you state what you are doing with your wrists thisaway? I do a
>> little yoga but I can't handle flatting my hand out without pain.
>> Instead I make a fist and place it straight down. It's not really
>> something one can do for the cobra, for example.
>

Excellent! Many thanks!

[thomas]

On Thursday, November 8, 2012 12:50:23 AM UTC-5, edspyhill09 wrote:

Asturias used to make a 3/4 size Jeff Linsky model. Here's another nice one:

http://www.berkeleymusic.com/Requinto.html

[dewach...@gmail.com]

Crap! you mean all this time I've been conversing with a damn steel stringer........ I'm gonna go take a shower and cleanse my soul.

[Gerry]

On 2012-11-08 19:28:06 +0000, thomas said:

>> The current price of the Arias 2A Parlor guitar is $1050.00. I'm not
>> sure that I would buy that size guitar. Not without playing one for a
>> week or two.
>
> Asturias used to make a 3/4 size Jeff Linsky model. Here's another nice one:
>
> http://www.berkeleymusic.com/Requinto.html

I love requintos too. And cavaquinho, cuatro and tres. I love small
bodied instruments.

[Gerry]

On 2012-11-08 20:54:34 +0000, dewach...@gmail.com said:

>> This Motif looks like fun. I love parlor-sized guitars, but am
>> reluctant these days to consider playing nylon strings again. Too
>> tough on my aging wrists. How much do the Arias instruments cost?
>

> Crap! you mean all this time I've been conversing with a damn steel
> stringer........ I'm gonna go take a shower and cleanse my soul.

I don't think of myself as defined by my string composition--just a
guitarist. But you showering would still be appreciated by all.

[thomas]

On Thursday, November 8, 2012 6:04:42 PM UTC-5, Gerry wrote:
> On 2012-11-08 19:28:06 +0000, thomas said:
>
>
>
> >> The current price of the Arias 2A Parlor guitar is $1050.00. I'm not
>
> >> sure that I would buy that size guitar. Not without playing one for a
>
> >> week or two.
>
> >
>
> > Asturias used to make a 3/4 size Jeff Linsky model. Here's another nice one:
>
> >
>
> > http://www.berkeleymusic.com/Requinto.html
>
>
>
> I love requintos too. And cavaquinho, cuatro and tres. I love small
>
> bodied instruments.

If Jeff Linsky plays a requinto, I don't know why everyone doesn't play one. Who's better than Jeff?

[Gerry]

On 2012-11-09 00:32:16 +0000, thomas said:

> If Jeff Linsky plays a requinto, I don't know why everyone doesn't play
> one. Who's better than Jeff?

He's pretty spectacular. He grew up locally and spends occasional
holidays hereabouts. I saw him a very small show in a local music store
about 12 years ago. There were about 20 of us in the room. It was
really great and we all had a good chat.

We met his sister at the best French restaurant in the area. She shared
a lot of humourous memories of growing up together.

[Cactus Wren]

Do you know Ron Jean (of Arizona?). He is no slouch either--he highly reccomended I check out Linsky.

[Alan Turing]

On 2012-11-08 07:05:38 +0000, Gerry said:

On 2012-11-08 06:06:25 +0000, edspyhill09 said:

I took up Yoga about 18 months ago and it has helped strengthen my wrists and shoulders.

Can you state what you are doing with your wrists thisaway?  I do a little yoga but I can't handle flatting my hand out without pain.  Instead I make a fist and place it straight down. It's not really something one can do for the cobra, for example.

I've been doing Yoga for roughly 7 years now, and as an Indian I've been exposed to many kinds of Yoga as well. If you find yourself not being able to bear all your weight on your wrist, i suggest starting with simple stretches every day. Your wrists are most probably weak becasue they are in a bad posture through the day or have been in the past. 

There are some simple excercises here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1RZ4dz3u80

Also you may want to strengthen your shoulders if you can't bear weight, simply becasue once you can indeed bear your own full weight, strengthening your wrists will become easier. This is because you will be able to do slightly more intensive excercises. 

It may not hurt to try and regulate your Vitamin D as well, vital for bones.This summer i took a blood test only to find my Vitamin D levels dangerously low(5 µg per 100mL of blood or soemthing) and deficiency begins at 10! Satisfactory amount if i recall were 11-100) I'm not saying to run out and get a blood test but weak wrists is a sign of weak bones and undeveloped muscles in that region. 

-- 

-AlanTuring

[Gerry]

On 2012-11-09 23:08:32 +0000, Alan Turing said:

Thanks for your input.

> I've been doing Yoga for roughly 7 years now, and as an Indian I've
> been exposed to many kinds of Yoga as well. If you find yourself not
> being able to bear all your weight on your wrist, i suggest starting
> with simple stretches every day. Your wrists are most probably weak
> becasue they are in a bad posture through the day or have been in the
> past.
>
> There are some simple excercises here
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1RZ4dz3u80

Actually I sorta sprained my wrist two years ago juggling a heavy
object, and had another mishap with it about a year ago again while
working with something awkwardly. It doesn't hurt always, and
frequently doesn't hurt while I'm playing, though it does pop up from
time to time after an hour playing barres.

Relative to playing solid-body electric rather than acoustic, nylon or
archtop. I use heavier strings on all the others, and also tend to use
more leverage and energy that I probably need to. With the solid-body
I find all my effort seems reflected in my performance, and so I have a
better energy-to-result ratio.

> Also you may want to strengthen your shoulders if you can't bear
> weight, simply becasue once you can indeed bear your own full weight,
> strengthening your wrists will become easier. This is because you will
> be able to do slightly more intensive excercises.
>
> It may not hurt to try and regulate your Vitamin D as well, vital for
> bones.This summer i took a blood test only to find my Vitamin D levels

> dangerously low(5 痢 per 100mL of blood or soemthing) and deficiency

> begins at 10! Satisfactory amount if i recall were 11-100) I'm not
> saying to run out and get a blood test but weak wrists is a sign of
> weak bones and undeveloped muscles in that region.

All worthy of consideration. Thanks again.

[dsi1]

>> dangerously low(5 �g per 100mL of blood or soemthing) and deficiency

>> begins at 10! Satisfactory amount if i recall were 11-100) I'm not
>> saying to run out and get a blood test but weak wrists is a sign of
>> weak bones and undeveloped muscles in that region.
>
> All worthy of consideration. Thanks again.

Your average American has to carry a bigger load than your average
Indian. You're talking about 35% more weight. That might be too much for
the human wrist to handle. You might want to leave the handstands to
Chinese acrobats.

[Cactus Wren]

You seen this?

It's so awesome, but so... well, gay.

> >> dangerously low(5 µg per 100mL of blood or soemthing) and deficiency

[Alan Turing]

>>> dangerously low(5 µg per 100mL of blood or soemthing) and deficiency

>>> begins at 10! Satisfactory amount if i recall were 11-100) I'm not
>>> saying to run out and get a blood test but weak wrists is a sign of
>>> weak bones and undeveloped muscles in that region.
>>
>> All worthy of consideration. Thanks again.
>
> Your average American has to carry a bigger load than your average
> Indian. You're talking about 35% more weight. That might be too much
> for the human wrist to handle. You might want to leave the handstands
> to Chinese acrobats.

The average american also has larger bones than the average indian, not
to mention a larger source of animal protein :D. It all scales
accordingly, also in matters regarding…manhood…unfortunately.
--
-AlanTuring

[dsi1]

On 11/10/2012 6:14 AM, Alan Turing wrote:
>
> The average american also has larger bones than the average indian, not
> to mention a larger source of animal protein :D. It all scales
> accordingly, also in matters regarding…manhood…unfortunately.

You're probably right about this. On the other hand, I haven't seen very
many big Americans doing handstands and we seem prone to wrist problems.
I don't know why that is. I'd sure like to know if Americans have weaker
wrists than Indians and other people. I'm 57 and these days, everything
on my body is slowly marching towards failure and I'm in a fearful
state. How did I ever get myself into this mess!? :-)

[Alan Turing]

I don't know where you've been frequenting but the men in my
neighborhood pull hand stands on a regular basis. It is of course an
attempt to preserve the knee joints.
--
-AlanTuring

[dsi1]

Your land sounds like one of those wondrous places Johnathan Swift wrote
about. I can tell you that I a very striking image of where you're at!