The Billy Meier case: proof beyond a reasonable doubt

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Tommy Grand

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Nov 11, 2009, 7:53:14 AM11/11/09
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Proof Beyond A Reasonable Doubt
By Michael Horn

In the following article I will first give the numbers and dates of
specific contacts between
Billy Meier and the Plejaren and then an overview of the information
contained in each
contact. The items titled “Corroborated” show the dates and sources of
the earliest
corroboration of Meier’s information found by the researchers. It
should be noted that Genesis
III published much of the material in volumes 1 – 4 of MESSAGE FROM
THE PLEIADES
with the earliest copyright being 1979, the date by which almost all
of the information was in
the possession of the investigative team. While I present only a brief
overview of the
information in the specific contacts, I hope that each contact will be
published in its entirety in
the near future. Except where attributed to Meier, the Plejaren were
the source of the
information.
When reading and evaluating the information you should ask yourself
when you knew, or first
heard about, each piece of information. Was it before or after Meier
had published it? Had
you heard about it when it was “officially” discovered or occurred?
Are you just learning
about some of these things now, for the first time? It must be
remembered that, Meier not only
published the diverse information below long before any other source,
most of it was
published well before home computers and the internet were available
to Meier for research.
Looking at the information below, which is only a sampling of what is
contained in the Meier
material, one sees a substantial body of evidence of impeccable
credibility, sufficient to meet
legal and/or scientific standards of proof well beyond a reasonable
doubt. Since anyone can
duplicate the results of the searches I performed that corroborated
Meier’s prophetically
accurate information, the scientific method applies here. Indeed, it
can be said that this is an
even higher standard of proof than the physical evidence, which is
still attacked by skeptics
and debunkers despite their proven inability to reproduce any of it.
(See: Professional
Skeptics Group Proves UFOs Real!) One can only have compassion for
their dilemma,
trapped as they are between denying reality and having to acknowledge
some “paranormal”
evidence that contradicts their deepest religious “beliefs”.

Absence of Erroneous Prophetic Information

If, as some people might think, Meier somehow guessed or fabricated
all of this specific,
prophetically accurate information, it would be logical to assume that
there would have to be
an even more enormous body of randomly generated erroneous information
such as would be
produced by the proverbial 10,000 monkeys banging away on typewriters
on their way to,
presumably, eventually type out a play of Shakespeare’s. Unfortunately
for the skeptics, there
simply is no such voluminous body of inaccurate work. And it’s easy to
prove this since most
of the information validated so far has been culled from a couple of
thousand pages of the
earliest English translations of the Contact Reports published by
Meier primarily between
1975 and 1979, with additional information excerpted from contacts in
the 1980s and 1990s.
In all cases, nothing has been added or subtracted from the original
texts as those who already
have possessed them for many years can affirm. And, for those who
don’t own the texts
themselves, there are sufficient copies in circulation that it can be
easily proven. Let me also
add that there are still thousands of pages of un-translated German
texts and some unofficial
English translations that contain additional, already published,
prophetic information awaiting
scrutiny.
So, as you read (and research) the following, and assuming you cannot
come to another
reasonable conclusion (based on the facts and evidence) than that it
is credible proof beyond a
reasonable doubt, please consider the possibility that the
extraterrestrials, and Meier, are
attempting to offer us assistance in solving the very serious problems
we face.

7th Contact, February 25, 1975 and 35th Contact, September 16th, 1975:

Connection of A-bomb testing, explosions to ozone damage, high
frequency “elementary
radiations” unknown to terrestrial scientists, damage to Earth’s
rotation, magnetic
disturbances, polar displacement; contribution of bromine gases to
ozone damage, penetration
of UV through holes killing microorganisms, leading to disruptions in
food chain, genetic
mutations, other long term negative effects for humans and the planet

Corroborated: November 29, 1988, published report from Lawrence
Livermore National
Laboratories announced this “new discovery”: ATOM BOMB TESTING TIED TO
OZONE
DEPLETION, 13 years after Meier had already published it. Consider
that this damage was
first mentioned to Meier during a contact on February 4, 1956, when he
was just 19 years
old, an astonishing 32 years before the Livermore announcement. The
extraterrestrial woman,
Asket, specifically referred to some of the catastrophic damage done
to the environment,
humans and other life forms by atomic bombs. She pointed out that the
great atmospheric
disturbance would result in climate changes, adverse weather
conditions and lead to genetic
mutations in plants, animals and humans as well.
Corroborated: National Public Radio, 1991, confirmed connection
between bromine gases
and ozone layer damage
Corroborated: Los Angeles Times, February 24, 1992: OZONE HOLE DAMAGES
FOOD
CHAIN, confirming the connection between the UV passing through the
ozone hole and
genetic mutations and damage to the food chain.

45th Contact, February 25, 1976: Semjase (Meier’s extraterrestrial
female contactor) warned
him that our extraction of petroleum and natural gas from the Earth,
damming of waters,
construction of huge cities were major contributing factors to
increased earthquake and
volcanic activity
Corroborated: The Good Life-Independent Journal newspaper, June 27,
1990:
EARTHQUAKES, OIL INTER-ACT

29th Contact, July 7, 1975 and 31st Contact, July 17, 1975: Specific
information about
Venus, unknown at the time, including: composition of atmospheric
gases, surface
temperatures, depth of clouds, wind speeds, atmospheric pressure,
coloration, variation in
terrain, etc.
Corroborated: By probes from both US (August 1976) and USSR (October
1975)

Corroborated: February 1981, USGS was producing a topographical map of
Venus which,
it was discovered by the investigative team, further confirmed the
details Meier had
published…5 years earlier

31st Contact, July 17, 1975: Semjase informed Meier that Mt.
Chimborazo was highest
mountain on Earth, contrary to Meier’s belief that it was Mt. Everset
Corroborated: June 1996 issue of Earth magazine, 21 years later

115th Contact, October 19, 1978: Meier describes existence of
Jupiter’s rings, says
composed mainly of dust, particles, sulfur ions flung off by volcanoes
on Io, describes Io as
most volcanically active body in solar system, smooth, level-surfaced,
no water; describes
Europa as ice-encrusted; Jupiter said to have 17 actual moons
(Plejaren don’t consider all of
Jupiter’s satellites meet their standards of moons); describes nature
of Jupiter’s huge funnelshaped
storm
Corroborated: March 5, 1979, NASA’s Voyager 1 probe discovers rings of
Jupiter, Io most
volcanically active body in solar system, Europa covered in ice…5
months after Meier
published information
Corroborated: September 15, 1998, Cornell University scientists
confirm particulate
composition of rings from Jupiter’s moons (first theorized by
astronomers August 2, 1995)
Meier’s information is 20 years ahead of Cornell’s (While scientists
believe that primary
source of particulate matter is explosions caused by meteorite strikes
on moons’ surfaces,
Meier’s information seems more accurate, i.e. matter being explosively
propelled from
volcanoes at speeds up to 2,300 km/hr to heights of 180 kms more
likely true source of most
particulate forming rings)
Corroborated: April 2003, Dr. Joseph Veverka, Chairman Astronomy
Department, Cornell
University, regarding my informing him of Meier’s information that Io
is most volcanically
active body in solar system, “If he said that about Io, 3 to 6 months
before, then all I can say
is that he’s right.”
Here is an excerpt of additional information regarding the actual
ancient, and as yet unknown
to our scientists, origins of the rings of Jupiter:

150th Contact, October 10, 1981
Century B.C. - 13,384
Orbital Period 714 years
Quetzal: …‘Destroyer’ is moving on a collision course with Jupiter and
disturbs its rotation,
while it races so closely past the outer layers, that within these a
gigantic storm is created in
rotating manner, which reaches into the innermost layers. The mass of
Jupiter breaks at the
close-point to the matter of the ‘Destroyer’ and gathers a particle-
and moon-ring around
itself, which will continue to exist for millions of years, together
with the original particleand
moon-ring existing already for approximately four billion years, into
which the new ring
will be integrated. The gigantic whirling storm, which already
developed in most ancient
times on the giant planet, has nothing to do with the ‘Destroyer’.
At the same time, when the ‘Destroyer’ passes the Jupiter system, it
tears an old small-size

moon of approximately 4 kilometer diameter out of its orbit which, at
enormous speed flies
out into the space of the SOL-system on an unknown orbital path, and
is accompanied by
several smaller asteroids. At first, this moon is lost on a very far
orbital path, when it appears
again after a long time and moves through the SOL-system - again and
again, until someday it
will be captured by Jupiter again and crash down on it which,
according to our calculations,
will be around the period of time, when the change from the twentieth
to the twenty-first
century A.D. will come.
Additional explanation regarding the same comet:
(Excerpt from Contact #248, February 3, 1994)
Billy:But now I have another question: In the contact report of
Saturday, October 10th, 1981,
at 3:15 A.M. Quetzal mentioned that, due to the ‘Destroyer’, a small
moon of approximately 4
kilometer diameter was torn away from Jupiter during the year 13,384
B.C., and taken on a
course which, in addition was followed by several small asteroids. The
discussion revealed
that, some day, this small moon would return to its point of origin
again, namely to Jupiter, in
order to crash down on it. The following in this reference: Earthly
scientists have discovered,
that presently a small planetoid of approximately 4 kilometer diameter
is approaching Jupiter
on a collision course, accompanied by several asteroids in its tow.
According to scientific
calculations, this small planetoid, called Shoemaker-Levy 9, will
crash down on Jupiter by the
middle of the year 1994, which will be barely behind the visible
horizon from the Earth. Does
this small planetoid refer to the small moon Quetzal mentioned, which
went on its journey
from Jupiter during the year 13,384 B.C., and which is now
‘celebrating’ its return to its place
of origin, or does this refer to a different space missile from outer
space?

Ptaah: This actually refers to the small moon Quetzal mentioned and
which, with absolute
certainty, will again come into the magnetic field of Jupiter.

Corroborated: July 16 through July 22, 1994
Additional information from 115th Contact, October 19, 1978,
accidentally given to lead
investigator, Col. Wendelle Stevens, USAF (Ret.), shown by him to Maj.
Rudolph Pestalozzi,
USAF (Ret.) and Mr. O. Richard Norton, former director Flandreau
Planetarium, Tucson,
Arizona. Witnessed by the three men, the information was secured until
after the following
specific, predicted events occurred:
• Jonestown massacre (Nov. 18, 1978)
• Overthrow of the Shah of Iran (Jan. 1979)
• Soviet invasion of Afghanistan (Dec. 1979)
• Chinese invasion of North Vietnam (Feb./Mar. 1979)
• Death of Tito of Yugoslavia (May 4, 1980)
• Mount St Helens eruption (May 18, 1980)
• Abdication of Queen Juliana of The Netherlands (Apr. 1980)
• Assassination of Indian Prime Minister Indira Gandhi (Oct. 31, 1984)
• Iran Hostage Crisis (Nov. 1979/Jan. 1981)
• Terrorist attack on Iranian Embassy in London (Apr./May1980)
1978: In a Wasserman publication Meier foretells launch of telescope
at end of 1980s that
would make unfathomable discoveries in space, writes that a comet
would be discovered in
late 1980s to early 1990s that would be named Toutatis, may threaten
Earth in September
2004

Corroborated: Hubble telescope launched April 1990
Corroborated: 1989, French astronomers discover comet, named it…
Toutatis, predicted to
come closest to Earth September 29, 2004
1978, 1992: In his book, Existing Life in the Universe, Meier states
that there are two small
planetary bodies outside Pluto’s orbit, he calls them Trans-Pluto and
Uni, says scientists will
discover in not too distant future
Corroborated: July 3, 2001, October 7, 2002, BBC reports that
scientists have discovered a
new planet beyond Pluto
150th Contact, October 10th, 1981: Meier discussed information
concerning the 29 actual
moons of Saturn, origins of moons from asteroids
Corroborated: November 2000, scientists announced discovery of 12
moons orbiting Saturn
bringing the “official” total number to 28, just one shy of what Meier
reported almost 20 years
earlier, scientist corroborates origin of moons as likely from
asteroid
215th Contact, February 28, 1987: Known as the Henoch (or Enoch)
Prophecies, this
contact contained a forewarning of the destruction of the WTC by
terrorism, the series of
worldwide wars that the US would subsequently launch and military
actions involving Russia,
China, France, Germany, Spain, England, Scandinavia and many Third
World and other
countries
Corroborated: The WTC was destroyed on September 11, 2001, the US has
already
attacked Afghanistan and Iraq as of this writing
235th Contact, February 3, 1990: Meier is told about an earthquake
that will occur on
February 28, 1990 in California. During this same contact the eruption
of the Redoubt
volcano in Alaska is predicted for the same date.
Corroborated: This was indeed the date of the Upland earthquake in
California. The activity
of the Redoubt volcano actually began on February 21 and continued
through February 28
with more activity following in March.
241st Contact, February 3, 1992: Contained these specific Corroborated
warnings about:
• Landslide in Brazil of March 1992
• Nuclear accident in Russia during 3rd week of March, occurred on
March 27, 1992
• Landers earthquake in L. A. foreseen April 23rd or 24th, 1992,
occurred April 22, 1992
• Eruption of Mt. Etna in April 1992, reported April 15, 1992
• Eruption of Cerro Negro in Nicaragua in April 1992, occurred April
9-12, 1992
• Earthquakes Germany-Holland-Belgium area for April 1992, occurred
April 13, 1992
• Earthquakes China-Burma April 1992, occurred Myanmaw-China border
April 23, 1992
Still speculative: 249th Contact, June 13th, 1994: (In response to
question Meier asked
regarding Mad Cow Disease), Ptaah stated, “BSE pathogens cannot be
destroyed by simply
cooking the meat and other items, or by producing meat meal”, and that
the temperatures
necessary for killing the disease-causing prions would need to be, “as
high as 700 C (1292 F),
and possibly even up to 1000 C (1832 F), for previously mutated
pathogens that have existed
for some time now.” Our scientists have been raising their own
estimates as to the
temperatures necessary to destroy the disease-causing prions and are
now more closely
approaching the temperatures that the Plejaren, Ptaah, stated.
251st Contact, February 3, 1995: In February of 1995, Meier published
the 251st Contact, a
lengthy document of enormous complexity in which he foretold the
likelihood of certain
specific future events. In September 2001, portions of that
information were included in the
book “And Yet They Fly!” written by Guido Moosbrugger, an Austrian
former schoolteacher
and principal acquainted with Meier for about 25 years.
The following seven items, foretold on pages 347 and 348 of “And Yet
They Fly!” have
recently occurred and virtually in the sequence Meier foretold:
1. The strike or attack by the US and its president (Iraq). Meier even
used the word “stun”
when he said the strike would "...stun the entire world..." “Stun” is
a synonym for the term
“shock” used by the US as in "shock and awe".
2. Meier correctly predicted the following upsurge in unrest and
violence from Islamic
fundamentalists.
3. Meier foretold the spread of AIDS, which has indeed become very
widespread.
4. Mad Cow Disease has since spread to other animals and humans as
Meier also predicted.
5. Meier said that a new disease and epidemic would then appear and
SARS did just that.
6. His warning regarding a renewed threat of chemical warfare is more
in the news than ever.
7. Meier specifically warned of the possibility of an accident, one
that he said could be
avoided, however, at the nuclear power plant near Lyon, France. The
emergency scenario, and
the timely shut down of that exact plant, occurred on August 12, 2003.
Now, in case the astronomically high odds against any kind of
coincidences or lucky guesses
aren’t apparent, consider that Meier identified the following eight
years in advance:
1. The exact country and leader (out of hundreds) that would launch a
stunning attack and a
synonym for the term actually used by that country’s leader
(impossible to calculate).
2. The exact religious group (out of thousands) that would respond
with their own attacks.
3. The exact disease (out of thousands) that would spread widely among
humans.
4. The exact animal disease (out of thousands) that would spread to
other animals and
humans.
5. The sudden appearance of a new disease and epidemic.
6. The exact kind of weapons and warfare that would cause renewed
threats.
7. The exact location (out of 436) and type of facility (out of
several) that would have a nearaccident.
The 251st Contact also contains startling information regarding
technological developments
such as hybrid warriors created by mixing humans and pigs’ DNA; people
will have bio-chips
attached to their nerve endings, Meier warned of ominous bio-chipping
with links to DSP
satellites and super-computer
Corroborated: Human-pig DNA experiments begun in last several years.
December 22, 2000
article from SiliconValley.com: “Patent # 348487398: Creature ‘97%
human, 3% pig’: A
coterie of British researchers has reportedly managed to create an
embryonic pig-human
hybrid by inserting human DNA into a pig's egg cell. While it's
unclear whether or not the
embryos could have been grown to term, researchers suggest that they
might have developed
further had they been implanted into the womb of a human, or pig
mother. It is, of course,
foolhardy to speculate on just what sort of creature might result from
this...Moreauian effort.
Still, the Sunday Times does note that the hybrids the researchers
created ‘would be much
more human than pig because about 97% of DNA is in the nucleus, which
was human. There
would, however, be some effect from the 3% of DNA from the pig.’ The
process has been
submitted to the European Patent Office, presumably for cloning
research.”; regarding biochips,
people are already starting to get “chipped”
Still speculative: Creation of half-human/half-machine beings, clones
and androids,
discoveries that conclusively confirm existence of previous human life
on Mars, rectification
of the “aging” and “aggression” genes, Plejaren warnings of deep
impact scenario, need for a
defense system for incoming objects
What Does It Mean to Us?
The universe, and everything in it, is governed by unalterable laws,
basic among them is the
law of cause and effect. Once the pendulum is sent out on its way, it
will eventually return
with the predictable result. The law always fulfills itself, in its
own timing and its own way.
Meier and his extraterrestrial friends seem to be able to predict,
i.e. accurately calculate, the
results of known to them causal actions originating from humanity and/
or nature and the
cosmos. And they have made it clear that certain prophesied
(undesired) events can still be
changed for the better…if humanity recognizes its errors and makes
sufficient effort in the
correct, positive direction to alter those outcomes that can still be
changed. Prophecies refer to
those events that are the likely outcome of causes put in motion that
are still alterable, to some
degree. Predictions refer to those events that, for a number of
reasons, will occur with
certainty. Some predictions are simply prophecies that have gone past
the point of no return.
In the 215th Contact, known as the Henoch Prophecies, special emphasis
was placed on
America and the very times we are in. (These prophecies will be
contained in the book “And
Still They Fly!”) More recent comments by Meier have also carried
harsh and heavy warnings
about the current American administration and leadership and the
danger of its leading the
world into a cataclysmic Third World War. Considering the credibility
the Plejaren have
established with their track record of impeccable accuracy since at
least 1975, it would be
wise of us to consider their future warnings with great seriousness.
Of course, it is up to each interested person to do the research
necessary to determine the
accuracy and authenticity of the Meier Contacts for themselves. Should
the most important
event in human history, contact between an Earth human and
extraterrestrial humans, actually
have occurred, then we might realize that this is less about UFOs and
extraterrestrials than it
is about us…and our future survival.

Paul B. Anders

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Nov 11, 2009, 10:36:13 AM11/11/09
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Wouldn't a URL have sufficed?

Tashi

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Nov 11, 2009, 10:51:24 AM11/11/09
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Pretty interesting stuff. Looks like Meier has quite a accurate
track record.

Tommy, ever read Edgar Cayce's readings?

Makes one wonder why the ancients were so concerned with the study
of Astrology. We in the west think, time exists in a linear
trajectory, where as other cultures believe it is cyclical.

I predict the skeptics will continue to hold out, if they give in
one iota, it destroys their fragile concept of the known universe, and
subsequent reality. That's not a good thing when most of them are
doing the best they can, going to work everyday to a miserable job,
hoping not to get laid off, so they can make their mortgage every
month, last thing they need is to realize, everything they know is
wrong.

They have full faith that 4% of known matter, has all the answers to
100% of reality. The hubris!

Paul B. Anders

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Nov 11, 2009, 2:31:17 PM11/11/09
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I want to thank you and Tashi for bringing this Billy Meier guy to my
attention, I'd never heard of him before.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Meier

This story is right up there with Xenu, the volcanoes, the hydrogen
bombs, and the DC-8's. Unfortunately for Meier, however, he didn't
follow the path of Hubbard and make this thing into a multi billion
dollar industry, though I'm sure he's made a few bucks from it.
Anyway, great stuff, keep passing it on, thanks.

Brad Anders

Tommy Grand

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Nov 11, 2009, 2:36:20 PM11/11/09
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So now it's a hoax because he's NOT ripping people off?

Paul B. Anders

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Nov 11, 2009, 2:40:36 PM11/11/09
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Who said it's a hoax? Clearly, Scientology isn't a hoax, millions of
people are believers. Surely, they aren't deceived. I was just
pointing out that as the Selected One, just like Hubbard, Meier could
have profited from his status equally.

Brad Anders

Paul B. Anders

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Nov 11, 2009, 4:04:13 PM11/11/09
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Tommy, I assume you're fully on-board with this guy, too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Gilliland

Man, I can't see how anyone would doubt these guys, he's hooking up
with the same ET's as Meier. Proof enough for me. I wonder if anyone
has asked these ET's about Xenu?

Brad Anders

Paul B. Anders

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Nov 11, 2009, 4:11:35 PM11/11/09
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Wow, the gaggle of people hangin' with these ET's is HUGE. And it's so
cool, they're not just Pleiadians, they're SPACE BROTHERS! Or Nordic
Aliens, or Aryan Aliens, take your pick:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Brothers

Look at that list of contactees! Have they contacted you and Tashi
yet? I've spoken to John Glenn and Harrison Schmidt, but that's no
further than the moon.

Thanks again for filling me in.

Brad Anders

Tommy Grand

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Nov 11, 2009, 4:18:59 PM11/11/09
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Note carefully, this huckster claims to be in contact with the
Pleiadeans. As anyone familiar with the Meier material would know,
Meier is in contact with the PLEJAREN. It's true that he initially
characterized them as Pleiadeans, but this was a TROLL manoeuvre
designed to ferret out the frauds and loonies. Now we know to
distrust anyone claiming to be in contact with the Pleiadeans.

Tommy Grand

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Nov 11, 2009, 4:19:47 PM11/11/09
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This was meant as a responce to your post about James Gilliland.

Tommy Grand

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Nov 11, 2009, 4:20:53 PM11/11/09
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There's no shortage of people who claim they have a counterexample to
Fermat's last theorem, or that general relativity is wrong, etc etc.
I assume you therefore reject ALL math and science?

Paul B. Anders

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Nov 11, 2009, 4:33:22 PM11/11/09
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> I assume you therefore reject ALL math and science?- Hide quoted text -

Quite the opposite. I believe all of those people, and I accept ALL of
math and science. I believe in the stories of all religions, too! I
never question the motives or tales of anyone, because I know that by
nature, people simply aren't deceptive or deluded. That's why I'm so
thrilled by hearing about all of these ET contactees, despite never
having seen the slightest evidence of ET's roaming the earth, zipping
around in their fancy craft, or cutting into the 6 PM newscast with
their wacky alien transmissions. You see, I'm not one of the
annointed, I can accept that, and I'm happy with just the knowledge
that all of these lucky farmers, surfers, and other people from all
walks of life are hooked up with these crazy white dudes from space.

Tashi

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Nov 12, 2009, 7:14:00 AM11/12/09
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There is plenty of evidence of UFO's "zipping" around......... radar,
video, photos, and millions of eyewitnesses. We will send someone to
the gas chamber, using eyewitness testimony, photos, videos. We will
also invade foreign lands based on photos, and witness testimony. As
a matter of fact, most of our study of history is based on what
someone ( eyewitnesses) wrote down.

No serious scholar doubts Socrates was an actual person. However,
this is based solely on eyewitness accounts, by two people. Yet
people question whether Jesus Christ was an actual person, and there
is far more eyewitness testimony, than many historical figures we take
for granted.

Somehow, it seems a bit disingenuous to me that 1000's of
eyewitnesses see a mile wide triangular craft fly over the city of
Phoenix, including the Governor himself, and this is not considered
valid evidence. This evidence would stand up in a court of law, but
somehow doesn't seem to survive under the the media disinformation
campaign.

You sarcastically state; "I believe in the stories of all religions,


too! I
never question the motives or tales of anyone, because I know that by
nature, people simply aren't deceptive or deluded".

Based on your methodology of superior logic, ask yourself a simple
question, who is being deceptive, the 1000's of eyewitnesses, or the
Government? Who has more to gain, and why? Did 1000's of people
spontaneously concoct a massive hoax, if so why, and what do they have
to gain?

You, oddly enough, are on the side of the party with the most to
hide, and motivation to delude. This is completely out of sync with
your sardonic logic.

Tashi

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Nov 12, 2009, 8:18:13 AM11/12/09
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On Nov 11, 12:31 pm, "Paul B. Anders" <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I want to thank you and Tashi for bringing this Billy Meier guy to my
> attention, I'd never heard of him before.

Ignorance is bliss!

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Meier
>
> This story is right up there with Xenu, the volcanoes, the hydrogen
> bombs, and the DC-8's. Unfortunately for Meier, however, he didn't
> follow the path of Hubbard and make this thing into a multi billion
> dollar industry, though I'm sure he's made a few bucks from it.
> Anyway, great stuff, keep passing it on, thanks.
>
> Brad Anders

All I can say is my knee jerk reaction to people who claim to see
UFO's is not one of instant denial. I've seen one as well. If we
choose to remain open to the possibility, it forces us to question the
foundations of Newtonian physics, and quantum mechanics, this just
isn't acceptable to most materialists, so they deny the possibilities,
based on scientific faith, that 4% of known matter, has all the


answers to
100% of reality.

Personally, I don't consider Meier a prophet of any kind. I do
think he has some authentic photos of UFO's, and until proven
otherwise, I'll go with that.

When it comes to prophecy, I'm a bit traditional. I'm reading a
book called "Vedic Prophecy" it tells me just about all I need to know
about that.

BTW, the Vedic texts describes many different (Vimana) spacecraft,
complete with flight manuals, components, and energy propulsion
systems ( mercury ion engines).

This text also states that Vimana ( flying machines) of the future
will be, slow, noisy, not go very fast, and incapable in
interplanetary travel.

Is it true or is it a massive hoax? We see who are the true
"conspiracy theorists" now.............. LOL! Sometimes Paul we need
a mirror to see the nose on our own face, in other words, you
materialists, are so deep into the conspiracy you can't see the forest
through the trees...... and you think Tommy and I are nuts...........
LOL again!

Paul B. Anders

unread,
Nov 12, 2009, 9:44:49 AM11/12/09
to
No, I don't think you and Tommy are nuts. Clearly, you both have
latched onto the truth here, and I admire how in your pursuit, you
have based your beliefs on some of the most credible observers and
evidence-supported ancient texts available to anyone. Keep bringing
these nuggets to us, and I'll keep helping you by finding similar
supporting information.

Brad Anders

Paul B. Anders

unread,
Nov 12, 2009, 9:51:22 AM11/12/09
to
On Nov 12, 5:14 am, Tashi <dewachen1...@gmail.com> wrote:

>  Based on your methodology of superior logic, ask yourself a simple
> question, who is being deceptive, the 1000's of eyewitnesses, or the
> Government?  Who has more to gain, and why?  Did 1000's of people
> spontaneously concoct a massive hoax, if so why, and what do they have
> to gain?

Clearly, the people are right, just as the millions of people who
believe that Joseph Smith stuck his head in a hat and used the seer
stones to read the gold plates that nobody else ever saw are right,
too. As a classical guitarist, you know that people are just as
observant with their ears as they are with their eyes, they know the
story of deep truth when they hear it. I have no doubt that because a
few thousand people in Phoenix saw some lights moving in the sky that
they couldn't explain, that this is clear evidence of vast
governmental plots and further evidence that ET's have crossed
interstellar distances with the intent of hovering their spaceships
over major cities, and zipping away.

Brad Anders

Tommy Grand

unread,
Nov 12, 2009, 9:56:09 AM11/12/09
to

Brad if all this stuff is such obvious BS, why even waste a second of
your time on it? Makes me wonder...

Tashi

unread,
Nov 12, 2009, 10:09:25 AM11/12/09
to

They didn't just see lights in the sky, they saw a triangular mile
wide craft. Why don't you work your magic, and connivence them they
never saw any such thing.

Equating religious fanatics to 1000's of people, including the
Governor seeing this object is pathetic, you sound like every other
uninformed run of the mill skeptic.

Tashi

unread,
Nov 12, 2009, 10:10:14 AM11/12/09
to

I think Brad is on a "Mission".

Tashi

unread,
Nov 12, 2009, 10:16:56 AM11/12/09
to

Right Brad, do you read Sanskrit? Are you now going to wipe out all
traditions, and records in past literature, with a single blow of 20th
century logic? Let me guess, goes something like, religion is a vast
conspiracy developed to control people?

Paul B. Anders

unread,
Nov 12, 2009, 11:35:37 AM11/12/09
to
On Nov 12, 8:09 am, Tashi <dewachen1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 12, 7:51 am, "Paul B. Anders" <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 12, 5:14 am, Tashi <dewachen1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >  Based on your methodology of superior logic, ask yourself a simple
> > > question, who is being deceptive, the 1000's of eyewitnesses, or the
> > > Government?  Who has more to gain, and why?  Did 1000's of people
> > > spontaneously concoct a massive hoax, if so why, and what do they have
> > > to gain?
>
> > Clearly, the people are right, just as the millions of people who
> > believe that Joseph Smith stuck his head in a hat and used the seer
> > stones to read the gold plates that nobody else ever saw are right,
> > too. As a classical guitarist, you know that people are just as
> > observant with their ears as they are with their eyes, they know the
> > story of deep truth when they hear it. I have no doubt that because a
> > few thousand people in Phoenix saw some lights moving in the sky that
> > they couldn't explain, that this is clear evidence of vast
> > governmental plots and further evidence that ET's have crossed
> > interstellar distances with the intent of hovering their spaceships
> > over major cities, and zipping away.
>
> > Brad Anders
>
> They didn't just see lights in the sky, they saw a triangular mile
> wide craft.  Why don't you work your magic, and connivence them they
> never saw any such thing.

See, there's your proof. I'm much more interested in what visionaries
like you and Tommy propose that we do as individuals, now that there's
resounding proof that ET's are "V"'ing our cities, with gigantic
intestellar spacecraft. I need your guidance, what should I be doing
about this? Should we all follow the example of Billy Meier? What are
you and Tommy personally doing? I'm genuinely interested.

thanks,

Brad Anders

Tommy Grand

unread,
Nov 12, 2009, 11:41:58 AM11/12/09
to
> Brad Anders- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

MT, will you please tell this clown what I'm personally doing? I'm
too busy to go into it right at the moment.

Paul B. Anders

unread,
Nov 12, 2009, 11:43:36 AM11/12/09
to
On Nov 12, 7:56 am, Tommy Grand <howardj...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Brad if all this stuff is such obvious BS, why even waste a second of
> your time on it?  Makes me wonder...

I don't think it's BS at all, I believe in visionaries like you,
Tashi, and Meier. See, there are millions of people like me, who are
simply lost in understanding how to interpret the world about us. We
depend on highly-trained experts like you and Tashi to sort it all out
for us, and to root out the evil scientists and governmental agents
who are conspiring to keep the truth from being told. Keep up the good
work.

Oh, and keep wondering. It's gotten you to where you are today.

thanks,

Brad Anders

Tommy Grand

unread,
Nov 12, 2009, 11:46:19 AM11/12/09
to

Brad I think your being less than candid.

Paul B. Anders

unread,
Nov 12, 2009, 11:46:43 AM11/12/09
to
On Nov 12, 8:16 am, Tashi <dewachen1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Right Brad, do you read Sanskrit?  Are you now going to wipe out all
> traditions, and records in past literature, with a single blow of 20th
> century logic?  Let me guess, goes something like, religion is a vast
> conspiracy developed to control people?

You know, I bought a copy of "Sanskrit for Dummies", but I haven't had
a chance to crack into it yet. As for religion, I'm the first to
defend it. Look at the tremendous amount of good that it's doing in
the world today.

Brad Anders

Paul B. Anders

unread,
Nov 12, 2009, 11:48:23 AM11/12/09
to
On Nov 12, 9:41 am, Tommy Grand <howardj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> MT, will you please tell this clown what I'm personally doing?  I'm
> too busy to go into it right at the moment.

How about a sentence? I'm dying to hear.

Brad Anders

Paul B. Anders

unread,
Nov 12, 2009, 12:20:25 PM11/12/09
to
Here's an answer to my question:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060805102055AAaKjR9

Tommy, is this what you're doing, too? Are you and Tashi avoiding
breeding with them and nurturing them? Sounds prudent to me. Should we
overthrow the government? What kind of weapons are effective? Do they
crave OPBF's? Guide me.

thanks,

Brad Anders

Tashi

unread,
Nov 12, 2009, 12:31:27 PM11/12/09
to

Sorry, Brad I don't have any answers for you. You are on your own
honey. I do find it quite entertaining that we've gone from a photo
of a UFO, to now equating me with saving the world. Quite a nice
straw man you constructed there Brad. That's the strategreey isn't
it, take it to ridiculous extremes..... yea, I get it.

Tashi

unread,
Nov 12, 2009, 12:35:38 PM11/12/09
to

Tommy is studying for his exams. BTW, what line of work are you in
Brad?

Tashi

unread,
Nov 12, 2009, 12:39:31 PM11/12/09
to

Yes, as I predicted you are a "conspiracy theorist".

Atheists are here to save the day! I feel so much better now, thanks
for all you do Brad.

Tashi

unread,
Nov 12, 2009, 12:41:36 PM11/12/09
to

Lets face it Tommy, Brad is being a clown. Minybird, just like his
father.

Tommy Grand

unread,
Nov 12, 2009, 12:44:33 PM11/12/09
to

Yea he's like Larry, laying it on too thick.

Paul B. Anders

unread,
Nov 12, 2009, 12:52:01 PM11/12/09
to
> it, take it to ridiculous extremes..... yea, I get it.- Hide quoted text -

Really, Tashi, there's nothing ridiculous about it. Look at the
headline of this thread started by Tommy - "The Billy Meier Case:
proof beyond a resonable doubt". If we accept the Billy Meier case as
proven, as apparently you and Tommy do, then the implications must go
to the very core of the way we're living our lives. Wake up, man!
You're saying aliens are living among us, directing the actions of the
world, in cahoots with our world leaders, etc., and you're telling me
that Tommy's reaction to this gigantic bombshell is to study for his
exams? If you and Tommy are going to be the dispensers of such
revelations, we need more guidance than that..

Brad Anders

Paul B. Anders

unread,
Nov 12, 2009, 12:58:02 PM11/12/09
to

Are you saying that religions don't do good in the world today?

Brad Anders

William D Clinger

unread,
Nov 12, 2009, 2:44:56 PM11/12/09
to
Tommy Grand wrote:
> Brad I think your being less than candid.

Why should he be different?

My interpretation, however, is this: Among all who
have posted in this thread, Brad alone has succeeded
in sticking to its original topic.

Will

Tashi

unread,
Nov 12, 2009, 2:52:44 PM11/12/09
to

Brad calm down dude, we are just talking about a couple of
photographs, that were studied and proven to be authentic. Now Tommy,
and I, are saving the world? Aren't you being a little extreme,
raising the bar and all? Is everything in your life some grandiose
plot? Get a hold man!

Tashi

unread,
Nov 12, 2009, 2:53:13 PM11/12/09
to

Is that what I said?

Paul B. Anders

unread,
Nov 12, 2009, 3:20:17 PM11/12/09
to
> plot?  Get a hold man!- Hide quoted text -

Who said you're saving the world? You say the photos are proven
authentic, Tommy's posting stuff here saying the "Billy Meier
Case" (note "case" - the whole enchilada, not just the photos) is a
proven fact, you're making comments that governments are deliberately
covering up sightings of mile-wide UFO's hanging over major cities -
dude, I am convinced, you and Tommy are totally sincere, so all I'm
asking is how you're transforming your lives to prepare for an alien-
enriched future.

But, that's OK, I get it. You don't want to tell us, because that
would spoil your edge. I can see your point, I mean, the next thing
you know, there's a big shortage of dysprosium and now look where the
hell you are. So, keep it to yourself, and don't worry. The rest of us
will figure it out. I clued in when I realized that "studying for his
exams" was code for "planning for leveraging the alien economy".

thanks,

Brad Anders

Paul B. Anders

unread,
Nov 12, 2009, 3:21:19 PM11/12/09
to

Well, at least beyond a reasonable doubt.

Brad Anders

Tommy Grand

unread,
Nov 12, 2009, 4:40:55 PM11/12/09
to
On Nov 12, 3:20 pm, "Paul B. Anders" <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Who said you're saving the world? You say the photos are proven
> authentic, Tommy's posting stuff here saying the "Billy Meier
> Case" (note "case" - the whole enchilada, not just the photos) is a
> proven fact, you're making comments that governments are deliberately
> covering up sightings of mile-wide UFO's hanging over major cities -
> dude, I am convinced, you and Tommy are totally sincere, so all I'm
> asking is how you're transforming your lives to prepare for an alien-
> enriched future.

Paul, if you had read the Meier material you would know that the only
change we need to make is within, by accepting and mastering the laws
of cause and effect. So before you accuse me take a look at yourself!

Paul B. Anders

unread,
Nov 12, 2009, 4:54:24 PM11/12/09
to
On Nov 12, 2:40 pm, Tommy Grand <howardj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Paul, if you had read the Meier material you would know that the only
> change we need to make is within, by accepting and mastering the laws
> of cause and effect.  So before you accuse me take a look at yourself!

Wow, thanks for explaining that to me! I don't need to actually take
any real actions, I can just internalize it. You guys are geniuses.
Maybe that will work for any other type of impending crisis, like
global warming. Someone should tell Al Gore.

Brad Anders

Tashi

unread,
Nov 12, 2009, 5:54:18 PM11/12/09
to
On Nov 12, 12:44 pm, William D Clinger <cesur...@yahoo.com> wrote:

And that's a good thing?

Tashi

unread,
Nov 12, 2009, 6:14:49 PM11/12/09
to

Brad you're making quite a few assumptions, who says we are going
to have an "alien enriched future"? I made it clear I have a
different perspective than others on this, more from a Vedic outlook.
BTW, have I mentioned I believe in Aliens? Perhaps they are from
earth, perhaps they are time travelers, perhaps they are a non-
physical energy.

To answer your question; I'm not doing anything special to prepare
for an "alien-enriched future" your words not mine.

> But, that's OK, I get it. You don't want to tell us, because that
> would spoil your edge. I can see your point, I mean, the next thing
> you know, there's a big shortage of dysprosium and now look where the
> hell you are. So, keep it to yourself, and don't worry. The rest of us
> will figure it out. I clued in when I realized that "studying for his
> exams" was code for "planning for leveraging the alien economy".
>
> thanks,
>
> Brad Anders

Brad you're out of control, and sound more, and more, like a
lunatic. You really hate those who don't think like you, now don't go
and do something crazy now! We need you around here, for Tommy, and
I, to play with, you are way more fun than a barrel of monkeys. You
crazy guy!

Paul B. Anders

unread,
Nov 12, 2009, 6:19:54 PM11/12/09
to
On Nov 12, 4:14 pm, Tashi <dewachen1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>   Brad you're out of control, and sound more, and more, like a
> lunatic.

Wow, I sure wouldn't want to sound like a lunatic. You know, from what
I've heard, most lunatics don't know when they're sounding like a
lunatic.

Brad Anders

Andrew Schulman

unread,
Nov 13, 2009, 12:50:50 AM11/13/09
to
On Nov 12, 12:58 pm, "Paul B. Anders" <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Are you saying that religions don't do good in the world today?
>
> Brad Anders
>
>
Brad,

Are you really Will Clinger in disguise?

Andrew

P.S. Also, do you prefer playing Scarlatti's K. 380 in E or D?

Andrew

Andrew Schulman

unread,
Nov 13, 2009, 12:51:58 AM11/13/09
to
Will,

How ya doin'?

Andrew

Tommy Grand

unread,
Nov 13, 2009, 8:14:07 AM11/13/09
to
On Nov 12, 11:50 pm, Andrew Schulman <and...@abacaproductions.com>
wrote:

Paul is yet another in a long line of people who think the Meier
photos are nothing but dark room trick photography. What he doesn't
realize is that the beamships were CAUGHT LIVE ON FILM as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydMEbXzGcyQ

Of course Paul will not argue the evidence directly but prefers to
employ sarcasm and humilitation. Nice guy!1

Tommy Grand

unread,
Nov 13, 2009, 8:22:24 AM11/13/09
to

Yea Paul, I guess someone like you, would be more comfortable if
there's a club or ritual to join, maybe somewhere to send your monthly
tithe. That's not the Plejaren agenda, however. LIsten to the
comments hear about self-knowledge and responsibility:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3b61GyM3CM

Paul B. Anders

unread,
Nov 13, 2009, 11:35:55 AM11/13/09
to

What is there to argue? I wouldn't want to change your mind, and
c'mon, let's be honest, you're long past listening to all those
naysaying nattering nabobs, anyway, aren't you? And besides, as you
point out, anything that is CAUGHT LIVE ON FILM absolutely cannot be
faked or challenged by anyone.

Sarcasm? Hardly. I'm on your and Tashi's sides, I'm ready to do what
it takes to prepare for the upcoming World Transformation. Imagine how
relieved I was when you told me that unlike Meier and others, who have
taken rather drastic actions, that I only need to mentally prepare
myself for this event in the same way as you, by posting UFO factoids
to unrelated newsgroups, and viewing various youtube clips. There's
even time to study for exams!

Brad Anders

Paul B. Anders

unread,
Nov 13, 2009, 11:40:38 AM11/13/09
to
On Nov 12, 10:50 pm, Andrew Schulman <and...@abacaproductions.com>
wrote:

This thread has something to do with CG? Who knew!

Brad Anders

Richard Yates

unread,
Nov 13, 2009, 1:12:25 PM11/13/09
to
Andrew Schulman wrote:
> On Nov 12, 12:58 pm, "Paul B. Anders" <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Are you saying that religions don't do good in the world today?
>> Brad Anders
>>
> Brad,
> Are you really Will Clinger in disguise?
> Andrew

Probably not: http://www.m.amazon.com/Paul-B-Anders/wishlist/1D1FW8LZ6T99Q


dsi1

unread,
Nov 13, 2009, 1:35:28 PM11/13/09
to
Tommy Grand wrote:
>
> Paul is yet another in a long line of people who think the Meier
> photos are nothing but dark room trick photography. What he doesn't
> realize is that the beamships were CAUGHT LIVE ON FILM as well:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydMEbXzGcyQ

You seem to be advocating the abandoning of common sense. I know a
cheesy trick photo when I see it. Most other folks can too - even it
they know nothing about cameras and lens. The fact that you think this
effect was created in a darkroom tells me that you have no clue to how
this picture was made. Maybe your "CAUGHT LIVE ON FILM" is the real deal
- I'm not gonna look at it because it won't change the fact that this is
a poorly done fake photo.

Tommy Grand

unread,
Nov 13, 2009, 1:45:32 PM11/13/09
to
On Nov 13, 12:35 pm, dsi1 <d...@spamnet.com> wrote:
> Tommy Grand wrote:
>
> > Paul is yet another in a long line of people who think the Meier
> > photos are nothing but dark room trick photography.  What he doesn't
> > realize is that the beamships were CAUGHT LIVE ON FILM as well:
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydMEbXzGcyQ
>
> You seem to be advocating the abandoning of common sense. I know a
> cheesy trick photo when I see it. Most other folks can too - even it
> they know nothing about cameras and lens. The fact that you think this
> effect was created in a darkroom tells me that you have no clue to how
> this picture was made.

Your probably going to tell me it was a small object close to the
camera. Then I'll pwn you by pointing out details in the focus that
prove this not to be the case. Then you'll tell me it's a dark room
effect. Sorry for jumping a few moves ahead in the debatte.

Paul B. Anders

unread,
Nov 13, 2009, 1:46:33 PM11/13/09
to

How true. BTW, my kids are playing recorder, they think those cheapo
Windsongs are good looking.

Anyone need any other cyberstalking links to me? I'm not shy. Plenty
of references on google. Need any advice on D-Jetronic?

Brad Anders

Paul B. Anders

unread,
Nov 13, 2009, 1:47:43 PM11/13/09
to
On Nov 13, 11:35 am, dsi1 <d...@spamnet.com> wrote:
> Tommy Grand wrote:
>
> > Paul is yet another in a long line of people who think the Meier
> > photos are nothing but dark room trick photography.  What he doesn't
> > realize is that the beamships were CAUGHT LIVE ON FILM as well:
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydMEbXzGcyQ
>
> You seem to be advocating the abandoning of common sense. I know a
> cheesy trick photo when I see it. Most other folks can too - even it
> they know nothing about cameras and lens. The fact that you think this
> effect was created in a darkroom tells me that you have no clue to how
> this picture was made. Maybe your "CAUGHT LIVE ON FILM" is the real deal
> - I'm not gonna look at it because it won't change the fact that this is
> a poorly done fake photo.

You really should look at the video, it's extremely convincing. It
couldn't possibly have been faked.

Brad Anders

dsi1

unread,
Nov 13, 2009, 1:53:28 PM11/13/09
to

No need for excuses - I think you're doing great on your own. Let me
know how it all comes out. :-)

Paul B. Anders

unread,
Nov 13, 2009, 1:58:02 PM11/13/09
to

Oh, Tommy and Tashi, I added another item, just for you guys to know
how serious I am about this thing.

thanks,

Brad Anders

dsi1

unread,
Nov 13, 2009, 2:00:11 PM11/13/09
to

My understanding is that Mr. Meier was the go-to guy for special
effects. His work can be seen in "Plan 9 From Outer Space" and all the
early Godzilla flicks. I see a special lifetime achievement Oscar for
somebody coming up! :-)

dsi1

unread,
Nov 13, 2009, 2:02:20 PM11/13/09
to

Make that "No need for apologies" Sorry about that.

Tashi

unread,
Nov 13, 2009, 2:04:02 PM11/13/09
to

Tommy, dsi, by virtue of his _Holy_ word is correct. He has passed
down judgement form "On High" and delivered the verdict, he has solved
the fake moon rocks heist, and many other mysteries like global
warming, and holes made by 757's. There is nothing this guy doesn't
know. All he asks for is unwavering trust in his word.

After dsi, has informed us as to how it is, I feel so much better
now, we can all take our Prozac, and go back to sleep!

Although dsi can't get too specific, and detailed, about how the
photos are faked, we all just have to trust and respect his intuition,
gut feelings, and absolute mastery in the art of photo manipulation.

Why don't we have a contest, there are quite a few people here that
are Photoshop masters, way more tools than back when those Meier
photos were made. Perhaps someone could duplicate those for us?
Probably take just a few minutes in the age of photoshop.

While they are at it, they might also build a pyramid or two, just
to show us how it's done, the good old common sense way!

Tommy Grand

unread,
Nov 13, 2009, 2:04:31 PM11/13/09
to
On Nov 13, 1:00 pm, dsi1 <d...@spamnet.com> wrote:

> My understanding is that Mr. Meier was the go-to guy for special
> effects. His work can be seen in "Plan 9 From Outer Space" and all the
> early Godzilla flicks. I see a special lifetime achievement Oscar for

> somebody coming up! :-)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Ha ha ds1! I guess you should easily be able to duplicate the photos
then.