Take Five demo

[Slogoin]

Hey RMCG, I've been busy winding up the school year and getting a
little jazz combo together with some local musicians. I did a little
demo for the guys of this tune that I want to add to the Samba and
Bossa so I thought I post it here as a break from the normal CG stuff.

http://www.larrydeack.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/take5demo.mp3

I played jazz with a friend who played flute and sax back in the late
70's and always loved it so I'm getting back into is and even took
some lessons with my old jazz teacher last time I was in LA.
Improvising over the vamp is fun but I didn't record any of that.

As to the CG connection, well, I think CG and jazz is a great combo
and maybe even better than the connection to flamenco as they are both
polyphonic forms and require more musical chops than technical chops.
Of course that's my opinion and as always, YMMV.

[Jonathan]

Very well-executed, but I was hoping to hear some improvisation :)

[Slogoin]

On Jun 6, 11:16 am, Jonathan <gosto.do.vio...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Improvising over the vamp is fun but I didn't record any of that.

> Very well-executed, but I was hoping to hear some improvisation :)

Like I said, I did not improvise in that recording because it was a
demo for the other guys. The drummer has some work to do and I wanted
him to have a clear recording of at least two times through, straight.
I suggested we just improvise over the vamp rather than worry about
the B section.

The piece is very catchy and I played the chords for the kids today
and they liked it. They are great for judging a groove as they
immediately get into the rhythm if it's clear. Corcovado was not as
successful but Girl From Ipanema was almost as good. Funny how a 5/4
piece like Take Five has such a catchy groove. I was thinking 5/4
would make for a great CG tune. I know Dusan does a lot of mixed meter
stuff with a good groove and in informal setting I've heard him do
some really nice improvising.

I really am enjoying playing jazz again with other musicians. With
my classical chops I have no problem playing things cleanly so it's
even more fun than when I first studied jazz, plus I know theory a LOT
better and can move around the fretboard a lot easier than when I
first learned these standards. I also take a lot less time to learn
them. I did the Take Five demo recording after just a tries but I had
a heck of a time with the timing when I first learned it in the 70's.
The guys are loving it and really getting how it all works once you
know your ii V I patterns. The key was explaining how the chromatic
lines worked and they are taking off now so it's sounding really nice,
IMO.

Thanks for listening.

[Jonathan]

There is a Howard Morgen solo arrangement of that tune I like to play, but my technique is nowhere as clean as yours.

[Andrew Schulman]

On Jun 6, 8:35 am, Slogoin <la...@deack.net> wrote:
> http://www.larrydeack.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/take5demo.mp3
>
>
Really nice playing, Larry!

Andrew

[Douglas Seth]

On Jun 6, 8:35 am, Slogoin <la...@deack.net> wrote:

Sounds good Larry!

[Lutemann]

I was just looking at Take Five to see the chord structure. It's in
Gb, but let's talk about it in G.
The entire 8 bar A sction could be played using nothing but an E
natural minor scale, The B section is almost completely diatonic as
well except for the ii, V7 in E in the last measure. It's an easy
tune to take a cheap solo. A hard tune to play well, of course.

[Slogoin]

On Jun 9, 12:03 am, Andrew Schulman <and...@abacaproductions.com>
wrote:

> Really nice playing, Larry!

Well, thanks, Andrew. It's just a quick recording that I whipped
up after a few minutes work. I had fun playing it with the keyboard
player I'm working with and look forward to when we get a singer so we
can do some gigs. Improvising is a lot more work but it's coming
along. Thanks to my little demo the guys decided to add it to our list
of tunes. :-)

[Slogoin]

On Jun 9, 8:49 am, Douglas Seth <douglasse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Sounds good Larry!

Thanks. Weird to get such a nice reaction as it's not much work to
play it. I'm sure having fun playing tunes with other musicians.

[Slogoin]

On Jun 9, 9:03 am, Lutemann <lutem...@aol.com> wrote:

> It's an easy tune to take a cheap solo.

Yeah, my improv needs some work and I do take some cheep shortcuts
to make it work, at this point. Compared to my jazz teacher I'm just a
child but thanks to CG I can play cleanly so I don't have to work hard
on technique once I have some good ideas for the improv going.

> A hard tune to play well, of course.

Every tune is hard to play well. Neither of us can hold a candle to
what my jazz teacher can do with tunes like this but it's still a lot
of fun to play live music with other musicians even if we are not in
the same league. I am learning a lot playing other instruments but I
do find that is takes time from my other studies. I have not learned
any new CG tunes lately but I do have time to keep most of them in
memory and ready to play.

[himmelhoch]

The tune is in Eb dorian mode for the A section (not natural minor), and shifts immediately to Gb major for the B section. Then the ii/V7 progression at the end of the B section gets you back to Eb dorian.

S

[Murdick]

Yea, and how do you figure that? The key signature is Eb minor and there is nothing in the the melody to counter that. The Cb/C (the big decider) is not there in the melody so you could play a Eb natural minor or Eb dorian against it. I suggested Eb minor to make it easy for Larry. It keeps the whole thing ditonic. I like the nat. minor - it sounds more sinister than the dorian.

[himmelhoch]

Listen to the Brubeck recording to the Paul Desmond solo.

S

[Murdick]

It doesn't matter, one could still use the natural minor.

[himmelhoch]

You're right of course that technically it fits. There is just a tradition of using the Dorian mode that I thought Larry should know about.

S

[Slogoin]

On Jun 13, 11:16 am, himmelhoch <himmelh...@verizon.net> wrote:

> There is just a tradition of using the Dorian mode that I thought Larry should know about.

Thanks but I already know all this and have know it for a long
time. It's making it sound more interesting than noodling around on a
pattern that I find a challenge. From what I hear on the web there are
very few jazz guitarists who CAN make it sound interesting. If you can
play it well then I'd love to hear something that is more melodically
creative than the average player.

[Steven Bornfeld]

I kinda like these guys--clever, witty rendition:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGZUy-DW7A4

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

[Steven Bornfeld]

On 6/13/2012 7:38 PM, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
> On 6/13/2012 4:24 PM, Slogoin wrote:
>> On Jun 13, 11:16 am, himmelhoch<himmelh...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>> There is just a tradition of using the Dorian mode that I thought
>>> Larry should know about.
>>
>> Thanks but I already know all this and have know it for a long
>> time. It's making it sound more interesting than noodling around on a
>> pattern that I find a challenge. From what I hear on the web there are
>> very few jazz guitarists who CAN make it sound interesting. If you can
>> play it well then I'd love to hear something that is more melodically
>> creative than the average player.
>
>
> I kinda like these guys--clever, witty rendition:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGZUy-DW7A4
>

Really tough to beat GB:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0KOzrMUt10&feature=related

Steve

[Murdick]

What I'd be thinking is that outer scale is is either Eb dorian or or Eb minor and the target notes are the Eb minor 7th chord (the Bb m7 sounds like a appoggiatura chord to the Ebm7) . You could reference that Bbm7 with and E dorian/minor ( half step slide). You can also chromaticize the basic mode to make it more interesting. Watch my jazz videos to see how a hacker like me can make a major pent. not sound like a major pent.

[himmelhoch]

Kent, the tune is a textbook example of modal jazz in the Miles Davis So What tradition. It's not about adding chromaticism, in the view of those in this style, the chromatic tones take away from the modal feel and represent the old fashioned approach. These tunes represent a move away from bebop into a newer, cooler, less frenetic approach.

S

[Slogoin]

On Jun 14, 12:02 pm, himmelhoch <himmelh...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> Kent, the tune is a textbook example of modal jazz in the Miles Davis So What tradition.
>  It's not about adding chromaticism, in the view of those in this style, the chromatic tones
> take away from the modal feel and represent the old fashioned approach.  These tunes
> represent a move away from bebop into a newer, cooler, less frenetic approach.

"So What" is right on.

The Dorian idea makes the sound feel like it floats. I remember
when I was learning this stuff in the late 70's and how it related to
classical music, specifically how the piece related to Debussy. I had
read a biography about Debussy and also Miles' autobiography so it was
not a surprise to find how Miles had used the idea.

I explained all this (and demonstrated it) to the keyboard player
who I'm working with and he just loved it. It's a new sound for him
and he's in a place where he's hungry for new sounds. It was a lot of
fun to see how his eyes lit up when he heard that sound and realized
how he could do it very easily after I explained it.

There is a LOT of bullshit in RMCG but it's a whole different world
in person.

[Murdick]

> Kent, the tune is a textbook example of modal jazz in the Miles Davis So What tradition. It's not about adding chromaticism, in the view of those in this style, the chromatic tones take away from the modal feel and represent the old fashioned approach. These tunes reprThere esent a move away from bebop into a newer, cooler, less frenetic approach.
>
> S

There is nothing cooler than chromaticism. It doesn't have to be frenetic.

[thomas]

Have you ever listened to that Miles record? There is chromaticism all over the place. Less in Miles's solos, but a lot in Cannonball's and Trane's solos.

[Slogoin]

On Jun 14, 8:12 pm, thomas <drthomasfbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Have you ever listened to that Miles record?
> There is chromaticism all over the place. Less
> in Miles's solos, but a lot in Cannonball's and Trane's solos.

Maybe you can post an example of how you would play it.

[himmelhoch]

Yes I have that album and have listened many times, and on So What, most of the chromaticism is a result of the 1/2 step shift from D to Eb and back. Within each chord, Coltrane hews mostly to the Dorian mode, Adderly is more traditional, and Miles is pretty strictly modal.

[Murdick]

Modal tunes are hard to play, IMO, because the harmony is more static. You are forced to really create content within a limited harmonic structure. Modal tunes are easy to play badly, hard to play well.

[himmelhoch]

Kent, you are right about that! Another element of So What that is difficult is the trickiness of remembering to switch chords at the right time.

S

[Murdick]

You know, as lousey as I am at all aspects of playing jazz, I've found that the one thing that seem to seep in is the ability to know when 8 or 16 or whatever number of bars is over and it's time for the next thing to happen. For a long time I couldn't do that.

[thomas]

It does become second nature for jazz players. And if you forget where you are, you only need to listen to the rest of the band to get right back on track, assuming you're playing with a competent band. So What is actually really hard to get lost on, for both of these reasons, unless maybe you're playing a solo guitar version

[Slogoin]

On Jun 15, 4:47 pm, Murdick <lutem...@aol.com> wrote:

> For a long time I couldn't do that.

You may have hit on a big problem for many musicians and relates to
anticipation of what happens next. Shaping lines to move towards
something is the crux of making lead lines interesting. IMO. That's
why noodling tends to get boring really quick.

Using imitative patterns over chords is critical to setting up
expectation. Learning how to break the pattern is the key to
fulfilling that anticipation in interesting ways. Too many jazz
players just wonder around thinking that they are fine as long as
there are no obvious clams. The interesting players, IMO, are those
who can always hear where they are and remake any misstep into
something interesting and not just resolve things by using the same
old cliches.

You might want to include some advice on imitative patterns into
your videos. As they are they will sound OK but not very interesting,
IMO.