Classical Guitar to MIDI converters
Leigh Smith
I'm chasing products or research projects that can translate performances on a
classical guitar to MIDI (or some better protocol). An obvious minimum spec
would be simply to detect pitch (which is bloody hard enough, of course),
however more timbral information and especially fret positions are desired.
Products I've seen mentioned were the GTM-6 "Gibson Widget" and Takamine's MIDI
classical. Does anyone have experiences with such devices (or others)? Has
anybody experimented with polyphonic pitch-to-MIDI convertors, conductive
fretboards, optical tracking etc? While pitch to MIDI devices exist for
electric guitar (ie special pickups of the Roland GM series), I'm most
interested in a solution (or a good attempt) for classical guitars.
--
Leigh Smith NeXTMail: le...@cs.uwa.edu.au
Computer Science Dept Phone: +61-9-380-1945,Fax:+61-9-380-1089
University of Home NeXTMail:le...@psychokiller.dialix.oz.au
Western Australia Home Phone: +61-9-382-3071
*--=----=----=----=----=----=---====---=----=----=----=----=----=----=--*
gary watts
: I'm chasing products or research projects that can translate performances on a
: would be simply to detect pitch (which is bloody hard enough, of course),
: however more timbral information and especially fret positions are desired.
: Products I've seen mentioned were the GTM-6 "Gibson Widget" and Takamine's MIDI
: classical. Does anyone have experiences with such devices (or others)? Has
: anybody experimented with polyphonic pitch-to-MIDI convertors, conductive
: fretboards, optical tracking etc? While pitch to MIDI devices exist for
: electric guitar (ie special pickups of the Roland GM series), I'm most
: interested in a solution (or a good attempt) for classical guitars.
The only other thing I am aware of is the Godin unit which was introduced
earlier this year. Godin is made by La Si Do in Canada. Don't have
much other information than that.
Gary Watts
Khufu
The cutting edge in guitar synthesizers and guitar MIDI is the
Roland series of units like the GR-1, GR-50, and GR-9. These all connect
to a hex pickup unit designed for steel string electric or acoustic guitars.
I did read in a Roland product magazine that there were currently
three separate builders who construct versions of the GK-2 pickup (which
is the name of this pickup device) that work on nylon string guitars. I
believe from what they described is that there is a pickup build right
into the guitar. Once this special pickup is built into the guitar it is
no problem to connect the guitar to a guitar synth and then to record
note information from it.
The rhythm guitar player for Al DiMeola, Chris something is his
name, is currently using one of these systems.
The article gave the addresses of the three builders who make
these devices. If you want me to look them up send me an E-mail.
JT
It isn't exactly a classical guitar, but Ovation is producing an
acoustic model with built in hex pickups for pitch-to-midi.
JT
Glenn M. Poorman
|>
|> The cutting edge in guitar synthesizers and guitar MIDI is the
|> Roland series of units like the GR-1, GR-50, and GR-9. These all connect
|> to a hex pickup unit designed for steel string electric or acoustic guitars.
|>
|> I did read in a Roland product magazine that there were currently
|> three separate builders who construct versions of the GK-2 pickup (which
|> is the name of this pickup device) that work on nylon string guitars. I
|> believe from what they described is that there is a pickup build right
|> into the guitar. Once this special pickup is built into the guitar it is
|> no problem to connect the guitar to a guitar synth and then to record
|> note information from it.
The three builders you speak of are guitar manufacturers. They are
not building the pickup. But what you brought up is worth mentioning.
Quote from "Roland Users Group" magazine:
"The popularity and acceptance of Roland guitar synthesizers has
reached new heights with three of the top guitar manufacturers
in the world announcing plans to produce models with the GR
pickup built in."
Those three manufacturers are Fender, Ovation, and Godin. Fender
will offer the GR option with the American Standard Stratocaster and
and the Standard Stratocaster. Ovation will be offering the option
on the R869-4 Custom Legend and the R868-4 Elite. Godin is producing
a GR ready nylon string model called the "Multiac". That guitar is
available now.
All the guitars mentioned will connect directly to the Roland GR-1,
GR-09, or GR-50.
--
=========================================================================
Glenn M. Poorman Ford Motor Company
Rm 2228, Bldg #3 Phone: (313) 33-73316
20000 Rotunda Dr. Fax : (313) 39-08817
Dearborn, MI. 48121 Email: poo...@cadcam.pms.ford.com
=========================================================================
Gunes Aybay
>
>I have a Godin Multiac (Nylon) and it s absolutely Great it has a
>Great Pickup system as well as Midi (GR-1) controller. It tracks
>better than the GK-2/2A pickups. It is so easy to play and I prefer
>mixing the Synth sounds with the nylon strings. It is� a Well-Made
>Beautiful Instrument as well. I first played it at the NAMM show
>at Godins presentation at the Park Place Inn in Anaheim and ordered it
>Immediately. They are priced very reasonably.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Can you be a little more specific about the price?
Thx,
>
>MFH
>--
--
|
\ _ /
-- (_) --
/ \
|
Robin Bowes
>From: gwa...@cv.hp.com (gary watts)
>Subject: Re: Classical Guitar to MIDI converters
>Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 15:09:20 GMT
What unit does John McClaughlin (sp?) the jazz guitarist use? I know he uses
a nylon strung guitar and drives some form of synthesizer, presumably through
MIDI?
\\/
_I_ (o o) _I_
(_@_)-------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo------------------------(_@_)
| | | |
| | Robin Bowes University College Salford | |
| | Database Development Frederick Road | |
| | Internet: ro...@plato.ucsalford.ac.uk Salford | |
| | Tel: 44 (0) 61 745 3457 M6 6PU | |
| | Fax: 44 (0) 61 736 3596 United Kingdom | |
|___|____________________________________________________________|___|
(___) Any Paradox for Windows info (ftp sites, mailing lists (___)
I development tools, tech tips, etc.) gratefully received. I
Mark F. Hall
I have a Godin Multiac (Nylon) and it s absolutely Great it has a
Great Pickup system as well as Midi (GR-1) controller. It tracks
better than the GK-2/2A pickups. It is so easy to play and I prefer
mixing the Synth sounds with the nylon strings. It is� a Well-Made
Beautiful Instrument as well. I first played it at the NAMM show
at Godins presentation at the Park Place Inn in Anaheim and ordered it
Immediately. They are priced very reasonably.
MFH
--
David A. Altemir
RO...@plato.ucsalf.ac.uk (Robin Bowes) wrote:
> What unit does John McLaughlin, the jazz guitarist, use? I know he uses
> a nylon strung guitar and drives some form of synthesizer, presumably through
> MIDI?
>
On "Adventures in Radioland", he thanks New England Digital for the
Synclavier guitar. But I think that he has also referred to using a Photon
guitar controller on some other albums. Can anyone describe what these two
devices are?
______________________________________________________________
David Altemir
alte...@samnet.jsc.nasa.gov
When you have to eat two frogs, eat the big frog first.
>In article <ROBIN.112...@plato.ucsalf.ac.uk>,
>RO...@plato.ucsalf.ac.uk (Robin Bowes) wrote:
>
>
>> What unit does John McLaughlin, the jazz guitarist, use? I know he uses
>> a nylon strung guitar and drives some form of synthesizer, presumably through
>> MIDI?
>>
>On "Adventures in Radioland", he thanks New England Digital for the
>Synclavier guitar. But I think that he has also referred to using a Photon
>guitar controller on some other albums. Can anyone describe what these two
>devices are?
>
Que Allegra recording. There was an in-depth discussion about the
midi set up he used. BTW, I've been meaning to go back and listen closely
to recording to see how his playing style is modified for midi.
John Rice
jr...@fa.intel.com
Christopher Svenstedt
27 Jul 94 17:09, gary watts wrote to All:
gw> : electric guitar (ie special pickups of the Roland GM series),
gw> I'm most
gw> : interested in a solution (or a good attempt) for classical
gw> guitars.
There is a manufacturer here in Sweden that makes a 'microphone' for
classical guitar to be used with Roland guitar synthesizers and converters.
Call Paul Guy +46-8-6441440, may be an answering machine with information
in Swedish and English were and when you can reach him.
/Christopher
/email To...@pointless.ct.se
Glenn M. Poorman
|> In article <CtLu3...@hpcvsnz.cv.hp.com> gwa...@cv.hp.com (gary watts) writes:
|> >From: gwa...@cv.hp.com (gary watts)
|> >Subject: Re: Classical Guitar to MIDI converters
|> >Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 15:09:20 GMT
|>
|> >Leigh Smith (le...@thylacine.cs.uwa.oz.au) wrote:
|> >: I'm chasing products or research projects that can translate performances on a
|> >: classical guitar to MIDI (or some better protocol). An obvious minimum spec
|> >: would be simply to detect pitch (which is bloody hard enough, of course),
|> >: however more timbral information and especially fret positions are desired.
|> >: Products I've seen mentioned were the GTM-6 "Gibson Widget" and Takamine's MIDI
|> >: classical. Does anyone have experiences with such devices (or others)? Has
|> >: anybody experimented with polyphonic pitch-to-MIDI convertors, conductive
|> >: fretboards, optical tracking etc? While pitch to MIDI devices exist for
|> >: electric guitar (ie special pickups of the Roland GM series), I'm most
|> >: interested in a solution (or a good attempt) for classical guitars.
|>
|>
|> >The only other thing I am aware of is the Godin unit which was introduced
|> >earlier this year. Godin is made by La Si Do in Canada. Don't have
|> >much other information than that.
|>
|> What unit does John McClaughlin (sp?) the jazz guitarist use? I know he uses
|> a nylon strung guitar and drives some form of synthesizer, presumably through
|> MIDI?
McLaughlin uses a Synclavier. These units were manufactured by a company called
New England Digital and cost more than most peoples houses. Pat Metheny uses
one along with his Roland. Jean Luc Ponty also uses one and drives it with a
violin. I'm not sure if they are still in business or not.
Majjick
this at Paco Pena's Guitar Festival in Cordoba, Spain, in 1992. I could
probably find out more, if you're interested.
Paul Magnussen
Roger Hand
>|> >: I'm chasing products or research projects that can translate performances on a
>|> >: classical guitar to MIDI (or some better protocol). An obvious minimum spec
>|> >: would be simply to detect pitch (which is bloody hard enough, of course),
>|> >: however more timbral information and especially fret positions are desired.
>|> >: Products I've seen mentioned were the GTM-6 "Gibson Widget" and Takamine's MIDI
>|> >: classical. Does anyone have experiences with such devices (or others)? Has
system made for guitar->midi. I don't know if it includes a pickup
you can add to an acoustic guitar, though.
--
Roger Hand rh...@well.sf.ca.us CIS: 73520,3506
"Life is the only thing worth living for!"
John Dimick
>>|> >Leigh Smith (le...@thylacine.cs.uwa.oz.au) wrote:
>>|> >: I'm chasing products or research projects that can translate performances on a
>>|> >: classical guitar to MIDI (or some better protocol).
>How about the G-VOX? I don't know much about it, but I believe it's a
>system made for guitar->midi. I don't know if it includes a pickup
>you can add to an acoustic guitar, though.
The new Acoustic Guitar Magazine has an article on the G-VOX. They make it
sound pretty good. Anyone out there tried it yet? They say it even knows
which fret you're playing, so it can generate tab.
Eric Ogata
(John Dimick) writes:
> The new Acoustic Guitar Magazine has an article on the G-VOX. They make it
> sound pretty good. Anyone out there tried it yet? They say it even knows
> which fret you're playing, so it can generate tab.
The basic problem with MIDI for nylon string guitars is that
currently, most guitar MIDI pickups are magnetic types. The Godin
Multiac electric nylon MIDI guitar is one exception that uses a
special six element piezo. Gibson Chet Atkins model nylon guitars (and
the Kirk Sand electric classicals) also use hex element piezos and
could *perhaps* be modified to provide seperate signals that could be
fed to a pitch to MIDI translator? Right now, most electric
classicals use single element piezo pickups and so cannot be used with
existing pitch to MIDI converters.
The "Acoustic Guitar" review says that G-VOX doesn't currently
handle nylon strings. They have a scheme to put small drops of some
kind of metallic substance on the nylon strings to allow the magnetic
pickup to sense them which should be available shortly. Also they do
not directly generate MIDI, at least not yet. I don't think it was
clearly explained in the AG review but I have read elsewhere that they
use their own proprietary format internally and have recently added a
utility to translate to MIDI. The translation is post processing as I
understand it and if so would not be directly useful for driving a
MIDI synth in real time while playing. It may also be limited to using
a sound card or internal sound synthesis hardware rather than a
general MIDI synth while interacting "live" with their software. I
also wonder how capable their score writing software is compared to
something like Finale or Encore? I would guess that it is likely to be
quite a bit more limited. If so, one would have to record with G-VOX,
translate it into MIDI, have a sequencer play it into Finale et
al. and then do a lot of tweaking to get a useful general score out of
it. This would make it quite a hassle to deal with and far from an
ideal general MIDI solution if your end purpose is to get a score. If
your end purpose is merely to program a sequencer or use their
computer based instruction system then it may not be so bad. And, as a
relatively inexpensive, non-MIDI, system including pickup and *not*
requiring an outboard synth or expensive notation program, it has some
things going for it.
At any rate, two specific questions about G_VOX come to mind:
1. Can it directly drive a MIDI synth at all? And especially "live"
in real time?
2. How sophisticated are its score writing capabilities compared
to say, Encore or Finale? And in the same vein, how sophisticated
are its sequencing capabilities compared to a real MIDI sequencer?
I think the more useful true general MIDI solution is either a
steel-string acoustic or electric with a MIDI converter, or mongrel
nylon such as the Godin Multiac used as a general MIDI controller for
a real MIDI synth and/or as input to a computer running a sequencer or
notation program etc.
BTW: I haven't seen it mentioned yet but someone is running a
mailing list about MIDI guitars. I haven't subscribed out of general
pessimism (MIDI guitars have been notorious for their poor tracking
and, so far they can only be used to control synths, I *hate*
synths!!:) but the situation is undoubtedly improving. Someone in one
of these here guitar groups should know how to subscribe to that
sucker for those that are interested.
--
eric
og...@tethys.nswc.navy.mil
John Dimick
>(John Dimick) writes:
>> The new Acoustic Guitar Magazine has an article on the G-VOX. They make it
>> sound pretty good. Anyone out there tried it yet?
>... they [G-Vox] do
>not directly generate MIDI, at least not yet. I don't think it was
>clearly explained in the AG review but I have read elsewhere that they
>use their own proprietary format internally and have recently added a
>utility to translate to MIDI.
>..., one would have to record with G-VOX,
>translate it into MIDI, have a sequencer play it into Finale et
>al. and then do a lot of tweaking to get a useful general score out of
>it. This would make it quite a hassle to deal with and far from an
>ideal general MIDI solution if your end purpose is to get a score.
I see. Glad you pointed that out. I'd much rather play a guitar than a
keyboard to enter notes into Finale, and so had hoped that G-Vox might be an
affordable and effective solution, even if I'd have to pick up a cheap
electric--heaven forfend! :-)
Guess I'll save my pennies a while longer and see what develops.
jd
Harry Avant
>From: og...@tethys.nswc.navy.mil (Eric Ogata)
>Subject: Re: G-VOX ( Was: Classical guitar to MIDI...)
>Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 04:38:11 GMT
>
> The "Acoustic Guitar" review says that G-VOX doesn't currently
>handle nylon strings. They have a scheme to put small drops of some
>kind of metallic substance on the nylon strings to allow the magnetic
>pickup to sense them which should be available shortly. Also they do
>not directly generate MIDI, at least not yet. I don't think it was
>clearly explained in the AG review but I have read elsewhere that they
>use their own proprietary format internally and have recently added a
>utility to translate to MIDI. The translation is post processing as I
>understand it and if so would not be directly useful for driving a
>MIDI synth in real time while playing.
Wrong. I have used mine with a Sound Canvas to generate "sounds" and it
works fine.
> It may also be limited to using
>a sound card or internal sound synthesis hardware rather than a
>general MIDI synth while interacting "live" with their software. I
>also wonder how capable their score writing software is compared to
>something like Finale or Encore?
Using Bridge I have input directly into Encore 3.0, Band in a Box and
Cakewalk.
> would guess that it is likely to be
>quite a bit more limited. If so, one would have to record with G-VOX,
>translate it into MIDI, have a sequencer play it into Finale et
>al. and then do a lot of tweaking to get a useful general score out of
>it.
Nope!
>elatively inexpensive, non-MIDI, system including pickup and *not*
>requiring an outboard synth or expensive notation program, it has some
>things going for it.
Yep!
>
> At any rate, two specific questions about G_VOX come to mind:
>
> 1. Can it directly drive a MIDI synth at all? And especially "live"
> in real time?
Yes
> 2. How sophisticated are its score writing capabilities compared
> to say, Encore or Finale? And in the same vein, how sophisticated
> are its sequencing capabilities compared to a real MIDI sequencer?
>
G-Vox does not write scores. It can function as a midi input dievice
like a keyboard into the scoring program.
I have posted mine for sale ($250 incl all S/W that came with it) not
becasue it isn't a good teaching or midi tool but because I have deceided
to stick to the basic old guitar sound.
Harry
harry....@jpl.nasa.gov
>-->eric
>og...@tethys.nswc.navy.mil
Michael Hanson
|>
|> The new Acoustic Guitar Magazine has an article on the G-VOX. They make it
|> sound pretty good. Anyone out there tried it yet? They say it even knows
|> which fret you're playing, so it can generate tab.
|>
Guitar Player and MacWorld (or was it MacUser??) magazines within the past six
months. Both basically said "cool hardware, weak software." Did the Acoustic
Guitar Magazine give any impression that the software had been upgraded or
re-written?
-- Mike
Frank Baldé
> Frank Baldé st...@hacktic.nl
Read the August issue of Keyboard on 'New twists on Midi control' in
which you will
find a description of the Steim SensorLab, a device that allows you two
convert sensor
information into Midi. I have done a fret wiring on my guitar, so no
delays because
of pitch tracking, and by using the SensorLab you can program yourself
how this
sensor data should be translated.
Eric Ogata
harry....@jpl.nasa.gov (Harry Avant) writes:
Eric Ogata wrote:
> At any rate, two specific questions about G_VOX come to mind:
>
> 1. Can it directly drive a MIDI synth at all? And especially "live"
> in real time?
> Yes
> 2. How sophisticated are its score writing capabilities compared
> to say, Encore or Finale? And in the same vein, how sophisticated
> are its sequencing capabilities compared to a real MIDI sequencer?
>
> G-Vox does not write scores. It can function as a midi input dievice
> like a keyboard into the scoring program.
So G-Vox *can* directly write MIDI in real time... Cool! But you
haven't told us how well it works as a MIDI controller?
> I have posted mine for sale ($250 incl all S/W that came with it) not
> becasue it isn't a good teaching or midi tool but because I have deceided
> to stick to the basic old guitar sound.
Of course a real instrument, especially when it is a nylon string
guitar, is capable of a degree of subtlety of control and nuance that
current synth technology is pretty far from being able to provide.
But the interesting application of MIDI from my point of view is as
a tool for use with a program like Encore or Finale to write scores. I
am a better guitar player than I am a keyboardist. So if it turned out
that G-Vox really is a cheap way to turn my acoustic guitar into a
good MIDI input device then it would be useful for that capability
alone.
So does it make a good MIDI input device? How does it compare with
the tracking of some of the other MIDI controllers (Roland, Multiac)?
How well would it do at pumping a Chaconne, Leyenda or Recuerdos into
Encore?
--
eric
og...@tethys.nswc.navy.mil
Harry Avant
>From: jdi...@teleport.com (John Dimick)
>Subject: Re: G-VOX ( Was: Classical guitar to MIDI...)
> og...@tethys.nswc.navy.mil (Eric Ogata) writes:
>
>>(John Dimick) writes:
>
>>> The new Acoustic Guitar Magazine has an article on the G-VOX. They make it
>>> sound pretty good. Anyone out there tried it yet?
>
>>... they [G-Vox] do
>>not directly generate MIDI, at least not yet. I don't think it was
>>clearly explained in the AG review but I have read elsewhere that they
>>use their own proprietary format internally and have recently added a
>>utility to translate to MIDI.
>
>>..., one would have to record with G-VOX,
>>translate it into MIDI, have a sequencer play it into Finale et
>>al. and then do a lot of tweaking to get a useful general score out of
>>it.
Wrong. Using Bridge the unit functions as a midi input device just like a
keyboard and can send data directly into scoring programs.
This would make
it quite a hassle to deal with and far from an>>ideal general MIDI solution
if your end purpose is to get a score. >
>I see. Glad you pointed that out. I'd much rather play a guitar than a
>keyboard to enter notes into Finale, and so had hoped that G-Vox might be an
>affordable and effective solution, even if I'd have to pick up a cheap
>electric--heaven forfend! :-)
Wrong! G-VoX running Bridge will input into any notation program.
Harry
harry....@jpl.nasa.gov
John Dimick
>> The new Acoustic Guitar Magazine has an article on the G-VOX. They make
>>it sound pretty good. Anyone out there tried it yet?
Harry Avant wrote:
> Yes, I have been using one for several months.
>[...]Using Bridge the unit functions as a midi input device just like a
>keyboard and can send data directly into scoring programs.
>[...]G-VoX running Bridge will input into any notation program.
Hi, Harry. Can you tell me (us) what "Bridge" is? Does it come with G-Vox, and
if not, what's it cost? If G-Vox will input cleanly and simply into Finale,
then it should provide quite a savings over it's competitors, which seem
to run in the $1,000+ range. If it will also control a synthesizer in real
time, so much the better. Have you been using it with nylon strings?
(And BTW, is your registered ownership--and therefore the technical
support--transferable? Feel free to Email me the details, if you like.)
Thanks,
jd
Roger Hand
>The new Acoustic Guitar Magazine has an article on the G-VOX. They make it
>sound pretty good. Anyone out there tried it yet? They say it even knows
>which fret you're playing, so it can generate tab.
I don't remember seeing that it includes software that can generate tab.
The software seems to be more oriented towards learning riffs. Of course
I could be wrong, since I read the article while standing in the bookstore.
Those G-VOX people could be missing a real opportunity if they don't come
out with some more software.
Paul Campbell
This is probably a silly idea but ...
The Roland and other similar electric guitar midi pickups directly sense
the string vibration the same way as a "normal" pickup i.e. the ferrous
content of the string disturbs its magnetic field.
Now for the radical bit - why not wrap a small amount of thin ferrous wire
(fuse wire ?) around each string near the bridge ,say an inch away, and
use somthing like the Roland pickup.
Paul
Bentley1
Campbell) writes:
I have a Photon MIDI guitar system for sale. I have used exclusively on a
classical for note input in Finale a notational program. I have also have
the foot controller unit. I paid $500 for it and will except a reasonable
offer.
-Mark
Gerry Scott-Moore
: Now for the radical bit - why not wrap a small amount of thin ferrous wire
: (fuse wire ?) around each string near the bridge ,say an inch away, and
: use somthing like the Roland pickup.
If I understand you correctly the problem would be that this wire would
stop the string from vibrating. It would deaden it.
--
---------------------------------------------------
| Gerry | Samba salvara' |
| ----- | o mundo! |
| g...@netcom.com | Aliso Viejo, California |
---------------------------------------------------
Tmuska
writes:
I am interested in: 1. getting on Mark Bentley's mailing list for guitars.
2. Info on the photon setup for MIDI.
3. Learning how to use Finale (Had it 6
mos.-NEED LESSONS - or may have to read
manuals)
4. Conversing with other college guitar
teachers.
5. " with members of guitar
ensembles regarding the exchange of
personal arrangements, etc.
Tmuska
Hy Mark - Terry Gaschen told me you were on-line. I just started this
stuff and it's pretty neat so far. I'm working with Finale and would like
to know more about your photon setup (Also put me on your mailing list,
please)
Terry Muska (210)490-0336
2243 Rippling Rill
San Antonio,Texas 78232
Do you ever see Robin anymore? Is there still a Czech Duo? Is there life
after the Guitar Gallery?
George Seifert
That is a good idea, but someone beat you to it. I read that the
GVOX midi system will allow you to do just that.
jlob...@mitre.org
wrote:
What happened to Guitar Gallery? Where's Terry Gaschen now? Hi, Terry.
--
Jerry Lobdill
jlob...@mitre.org
Just my own opinion...everyone's entitled to it :-).
Bentley1
jlob...@mitre.org () writes:
I guess this discussion has strayed from it's origianl intent but, WTH1
Hi, Terry Muska!! It's good to hear from you. I'll e-mail with an update
on things. To reply to the last message, Terry Gaschen is alive and well
in the Houston area. I believe he lives across the street now from the old
Guitar Gallery. He is a AOL member and I believe he can be reached at
T...@AOL.com. He also has an internet address via Rice and I'll look it up
for anyone who cares to e-mail me.
-Mark