Mysterious Barricades by Couperin

[pburdett]

Hi all,

Anyone know where I can get the D major arrangement of Myserious Barricades
that Ben Verdary plays?
Cheers,
Paul

[Steven Bornfeld]

Haven't heard it. But I like Richard Yates's arrangement in G:

http://www.yatesguitar.com/pdfs/Couperin-MystBarr.pdf

Steve

[pburdett]

"Steven Bornfeld" <dentalt...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:k7c3pv$o9k$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

Hi Steve,

I've heard that vesion in C major, but I much prefer Verdary's:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdvJKT50794

Cheers,

Paul

[Fadosolrélamisi]

I have an arr. in D but it's by Alirio Diaz ...
Following with the score (Diaz) in hand and with the music link you gave, I found that a lot of the bass were not held for their full duration, I am not familiar with the piece but I wonder how it would compare to the C version in term of the possibility to hold the bass. Anywhoo ... it's indeed a nice version and Verdery plays it superbly!

[dewach...@gmail.com]

There is always this one by Michael Chapdelaine......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngKQ_wn9Q8o&list=UUG7NugrUNvx0mc9m9mZtatA&index=22&feature=plpp_video

[David Raleigh Arnold]

On Wed, 07 Nov 2012 05:56:37 -0800, dewachen1000 wrote:

I see that the original key is Bb. Regards, daveA

--
Guitar teaching materials and original music for all styles and levels.
Site: http://www.openguitar.com (()) eMail: d.raleig...@gmail.com
Contact: http://www.openguitar.com/contact.html"

[David Raleigh Arnold]

[David Raleigh Arnold]

[David Raleigh Arnold]

On Wed, 07 Nov 2012 16:50:51 +0000, David Raleigh Arnold wrote:

> On Wed, 07 Nov 2012 05:56:37 -0800, dewachen1000 wrote:
>
> I see that the original key is Bb. Regards, daveA

Triplication: not my fault. :-) Regards, daveA

[Steven Bornfeld]

Brain fart--Yates's in c, of course. And I agree. Verdary's
arrangement is lovely.

Steve

[dewach...@gmail.com]

Yea Bb, tuned down to 395 or 415 or god knows what.

[pburdett]

I paid for and downloaded David Russel's transcription..very nice, as well
as Yates'...I guess they'll have to do....not much time to do my own....too
busy teaching music to high school students here...some of them even want to
learn!!

Paul


"David Raleigh Arnold" <d.raleig...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:k7e3l8$eoa$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

[JPD]

On Nov 7, 12:29 pm, "pburdett" <p.burd...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> I paid for and downloaded David Russel's transcription..

From where did you download that, please? I don't see it on his site.

[David Raleigh Arnold]

C is closer than D.

Having said that, is there a playable guitar version in Bb?
What key does David Russell play it in? Regards, daveA

[Jim]

http://www.productionsdoz.com/en/sheet-music-for-guitar/solo-guitar/couperin-f/DO-787.html

[Jim]

On 2012-11-07 17:30:09 -0500, David Raleigh Arnold

<d.raleig...@gmail.com> said:

>
> What key does David Russell play it in?


> Regards, daveA

He plays it in C, here's the first page sample

http://www.productionsdoz.com/doz/DO787.pdf

[JPD]

On Nov 7, 3:05 pm, Jim <jimh8...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On 2012-11-07 15:52:51 -0500, JPD <googlegroo...@guitarist.com> said:
>
> > On Nov 7, 12:29 pm, "pburdett" <p.burd...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> >> I paid for and downloaded David Russel's transcription..
>
> > From where did you download that, please? I don't see it on his site.
>

> http://www.productionsdoz.com/en/sheet-music-for-guitar/solo-guitar/c...

Thank you, Jim.

Btw, do we know your last name? (If you'd rather not say, I
understand.)

[Fadosolrélamisi]

And following this logic A his closer to Bb ... Would not that be the ideal key to play les barricades?

[Jim]

OK let me correct myself, just listened to the recording, Russell
actually plays this with a capo on the first fret so it sounds in Db
major - maybe he feels a flat key better suits the music and indeed it
does have more clarity in Db. The original key of Bb doesn't sound
right on the guitar IMO, too low for the register. On the piano it's
really nice though because of the low bass notes. Here's nice
performance by Cziffra if a bit stiff somehow between the couplets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZWf9neUf1I

Here's my favorite guitar performance on YouTube by Enno Voorhorst in C
- the audio is probably overdubbed or the reverb added later becaue
it's filmed outside.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0bblfBVMjw

The guitar produces more subtlety and detail in certain places than the
keyboard.


Jim

[Jim]

Here's David Russell's recording on YouTube with capo on first fret

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECkMI78tNbY

[Jim]

> And following this logic A is closer to Bb ... Would not that be the

> ideal key to play les barricades?

Well if you transcribed/arranged and played it in A and then put a capo
on the first fret you'd get Bb - that would be ideal ;-)

[Cactus Wren]

I hope it's not too off-topic, but I am very interested in David Russell's arrangement of the Handel Pasacaille, on his grand new Baroque album. It is almost like pop, so simple and just jammed with idiomatic flash!

[pburdett]

"Jim" <jimh...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:509ae939$0$36217$c3e8da3$3388...@news.astraweb.com...

> Great to see others interested in this music...still prefer Ben V's
> arangement though...:)

Paul
>
>

[David Raleigh Arnold]

I fail to see any reason not to try Bb and A. Few keyboard
pieces sound best in the original key on guitar, but some do. Of
course the original pitch was possibly A or even lower. I
could not help but notice that the version in D was
very bassy too. Cleaning up the incorrectly sustained
bass notes could help a lot.

It would also help to know whether "The Mysterious
Barricades" was a legend, a novel, an opera, a
reference, or whatever. No one seems to know. That's
truly mysterious. ;-) Regards, daveA

[Fadosolrélamisi]

You're right, there is something with the D major that makes it more ... guitar like. I look at them both last night and even if the C major version is (globally) easier for the A part of the rondo at least the D major arr. add something that makes it livelier. By the way Alirio Diaz version seems to be the one version Verdery is playing. Very similar in fingerings. That squeazy 2 finger in fret 7 on the D major chord start needs some care to keep the intonation from going twing (I really hate that position, but a little suffering is sometimes necessary to arrive at good result) but beside that ... Diaz version is totally manageable.

[Fadosolrélamisi]

Well ... it's a rondeau, at least, this much we known.

[thomas]

On Wednesday, November 7, 2012 11:58:39 PM UTC-5, Cactus Wren wrote:
> I hope it's not too off-topic, but I am very interested in David Russell's arrangement of the Handel Pasacaille, on his grand new Baroque album. It is almost like pop, so simple and just jammed with idiomatic flash!
>

This one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRJ1NUl6Me0

It's gorgeous. That's a virtuoso piece if I've ever heard one. Way beyond my chops.

[Cactus Wren]

That one! Cool that you found that video.

[Jim]

On 2012-11-08 22:26:07 -0500, Cactus Wren

<elegantspa...@gmail.com> said:

> That one! Cool that you found that video.

For those interested here's the sheet music for purchase, it's the last
movement of the Suite VII (HWV432)

http://www.dobermaneditions.com/en/sheet-music-for-guitar/guitar-solo/c378122252/p17264030.html

[Fadosolrélamisi]

On Thursday, November 8, 2012 5:46:31 PM UTC-8, thomas wrote:

> On Thursday, November 8, 2012 2:54:34 AM UTC-5, daveA wrote:
>
> >
>
> > It would also help to know whether "The Mysterious
>
> > Barricades" was a legend, a novel, an opera, a
>
> > reference, or whatever. No one seems to know. That's
>
> > truly mysterious. ;-) Regards, daveA
>
>
>

> I hear it as a chastity belt with a combination lock. Each variation in the rondo is a different attempt to open the lock. The main theme is clearing the lock, and the motivation for trying again.

Peut-être que les barricades mysterieuses representent ce mur enigmatique contre lequel nous nous butons lorsque nous tentons de reconstituer les elements de la vie cet homme dont nous savons si peu de chose... En effet, ce que nous savons de la vie de ce grand claveciniste est si mince qu'il ne nous reste comme choix que celui de l'inventer. Certes nous voudrions que de cette esquisse surgisse les traits d'un homme dont la vie aurait été à la hauteur de la musique qu'il a créée mais ... voilà, c'est la que se dresse la barricade et derriere elle, le mystère restera entier.

[Matt Faunce]

On 11/9/12 12:58 AM, Fadosolrélamisi wrote:

>> Perhaps th' mahsterious barricades represent this hyar enigmatic
wall aginst which we stumble when we try t'reconstruck th' elements
of life thet man whom we knows so li'l ... Indeed, whut we knows of
th' life of this hyar great harpsicho'dist is so skimpy thet we make a
choice as t'invent it. Sartinly we'd like this hyar arise sketch th'
features
of a man whose life was at th' height of th' moosic he created, but ...
hyar,
it is thet stan's behind it an' th' barricade, th' mahstery remains whole.
>>

Certainly.

Furthermore, the tempo: The tempo is marked "vivement," but many people
think it takes away from the mysterious character of the piece. I think
the tempo marking adds yet another layer of enigma.
--
Matt

[Fadosolrélamisi]

On Friday, November 9, 2012 7:24:36 AM UTC-8, Matt Faunce wrote:

Pretty close ... even the accent is close to the one I have when I speak Shakespeare. Bravo! As for the tempo ... Already at that time they were playing everything too fast.
If you have time to read the text on Couperin by Frederick Haas on his site ... this guy know not only how to play but he also write Molière like a true master... Very enlightening text on the rapport a musician has with the music he chooses to play. What a writer!

[Matt Faunce]

On 11/9/12 12:32 PM, Fadosolrélamisi wrote:
> On Friday, November 9, 2012 7:24:36 AM UTC-8, Matt Faunce wrote:
>> On 11/9/12 12:58 AM, Fadosolr�lamisi wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>> Perhaps th' mahsterious barricades represent this hyar enigmatic
>>
>> wall aginst which we stumble when we try t'reconstruck th' elements
>>
>> of life thet man whom we knows so li'l ... Indeed, whut we knows of
>>
>> th' life of this hyar great harpsicho'dist is so skimpy thet we make a
>>
>> choice as t'invent it. Sartinly we'd like this hyar arise sketch th'
>>
>> features
>>
>> of a man whose life was at th' height of th' moosic he created, but ...
>>
>> hyar,
>>
>> it is thet stan's behind it an' th' barricade, th' mahstery remains whole.
>>
>> >>
>>
>>
>>
>> Certainly.
>>
>>
>>
>> Furthermore, the tempo: The tempo is marked "vivement," but many people
>>
>> think it takes away from the mysterious character of the piece. I think
>>
>> the tempo marking adds yet another layer of enigma.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Matt
>
> Pretty close ... even the accent is close to the one I have when I speak Shakespeare. Bravo!

I used Google Translator then the Dialectizer to redneck. Do you speak
Shakespeare in redneck? Cool. ... Actually, I don't think the
Dialectizer did a good job on this one.

I took a half a year of French in seventh grade then another half a year
of French as a freshman in high school. I've since let those skills go
to shambles. I revived it a little bit before visiting Paris, then let
it go again. I would like to revive what I learned and then learn more.
Maybe some day I'll get to it.

As for the tempo ... Already at that time they were playing everything
too fast.
> If you have time to read the text on Couperin by Frederick Haas on his site ... this guy know not only how to play but he also write Molière like a true master... Very enlightening text on the rapport a musician has with the music he chooses to play. What a writer!
>

I looked for it on Amazon and didn't find it. I'll look elsewhere and
see what I find.

I did find his version of Les Mistériouses Barricades on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFqds_k0r6k&feature=relmfu

I have to say, I don't have a favorite version of this piece, but I
appreciate the variety. Any one version (of the good ones), say
Verdery's or Parkening's, gets it's strength when contrasted with the
others.
--
Matt

[Fadosolrélamisi]

here it is ... (but unfortunately in French!) It's a really nice, thoughtful text, and I wish we had a guitar player who could express in the same manner the intimate relationship one develop with the instrument, the process and the artistry, the searching and the findings, like this guy has done it with the harpsichord in this article.

http://www.frederickhaas.com/linktxt_en.php?DOC_INST=102

Verdery's (Diaz) version is quite something, I like it (Thanks Paul for posting the Verdery Video link).
But ... I am afraid I'll have to settle (like many others) for the C major version ... Up to now, Richard Yates as the best A part.

[simon...@gmail.com]

Where can I get that Diaz transcription?

[Steven Bornfeld]

On 1/30/2016 2:55 PM, simon...@gmail.com wrote:
> Where can I get that Diaz transcription?
>

If you're willing to buy a collection, it seems to be available in a
book edited by Ben Vedery. I have not seen it, but I understand it is
in D maj.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Reverie+%E2%80%93+French+Music+for+Flute+%26+Guitar

If you don't mind a transcription in C maj, it's freely available from
Richard Yates:


http://www.yatesguitar.com/pdfs/Couperin-MystBarr.pdf

Steve

[Paul Magnussen]

Steven Bornfeld wrote:
> On 1/30/2016 2:55 PM, simon...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Where can I get that Diaz transcription?
>>
> If you're willing to buy a collection, it seems to be available in a
> book edited by Ben Vedery. I have not seen it, but I understand it is
> in D maj.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Reverie+%E2%80%93+French+Music+for+Flute+%26+Guitar
>
>
> If you don't mind a transcription in C maj, it's freely available from
> Richard Yates:

It's also in Parkening and the Guitar, Vol. 2. The transcription is in
C, but his recording is in D; so it looks as if he's using a capo (as
Sharon acknowledged).

Paul Magnussen

[Matt Faunce]

Hmmmmmmmmm. Kinda like the Bach Präludium.

--
Matt

[Andrew Schulman]

On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 1:51:02 PM UTC-5, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
> If you're willing to buy a collection, it seems to be available in a
> book edited by Ben Vedery. I have not seen it, but I understand it is
> in D maj.
>

> If you don't mind a transcription in C maj, it's freely available from
> Richard Yates:
>

2cts worth here: I tried it in C and D and found it works better in C.

Andrew

[tom g]

I play my profe's transcription in C with sixth string at D and cejilla at first fret. It is more difficult and needs a clever digitation but I love it. David Russell argued with my teacher about the musical advantage in two or three places with sixth string at D and said there was only one place but my profe was correct.

Easy with 8 strings!

tom g

[David Raleigh Arnold]

I'd still like to see the original music in a clean version, but from
watching the piano player it appears to be in Bb. I also saw a guitar
player on youtube strap up on the 2nd fret to play it in D. Why?

IAC the key does not appear to be a problem. The fingering may be.
Regards, Rale

[Andrew Schulman]

On Monday, February 1, 2016 at 8:31:21 AM UTC-5, tom g wrote:
> Easy with 8 strings!
>
> tom g

Unfortunately, not as easy as I'd hoped! Wonderful piece, worth the effort. I know the sections where low D is needed and so that explains the need for the D if you play it in C, and that does make it easier on the 8-string because you still have 6-E. And it does need a clever fingering/digitation in many places because of the suspensions that need to be sustained over the bar line.

Andrew

[Richard Yates]

Most transcriptions I have seen miss the point (I think I remember a
Marshall/Parkening one in particular). The piece uses style brisé
throughout and the maze of tied notes is Couperin's best attempt to
imitate a Baroque lute with its naturally overlapping notes in
arpeggios.

If Couperin was trying to make the harpsichord sound like a lute, why
should we go through finger-tweaking contortions and obsess over the
octave of a bass note or two to try to make the guitar sound like the
harpsichord when we play it? S.L. Weiss wouldn't have.

That's why I much prefer to play this version:
http://www.yatesguitar.com/pdfs/lute-Couperin-MystBarr.pdf

[tom g]

I can almost agree with you but my real agreement is in other contexts not this one. If Couperin wanted to imitate the lute the imitation was part of his concept of the music. You say 'maze'. I think you are right but for another reason. The ligaduras are a kind of impediment to the changes of the harmony and then those impediments arrive at a final apoteosis in the 'maze' of the harmony in the last variation.
But of course we can only guess the real intention of the title. I simply prefer the piece with the ligaduras and I would play it differently without them.
There is not much contortion only unusual digitation more difficult to learn.
Finally, for me the register of the bass notes is very significant. The low D comes at important moments in the music, it is not about 'obsessing'!!
Anyway, now is an opportunity to thank you for all the great guitar music you have created for us!

tom g

[David Raleigh Arnold]

On Mon, 01 Feb 2016 14:07:57 -0800
Richard Yates <ric...@yatesguitar.com> wrote:

> If Couperin was trying to make the
harpsichord sound like a lute, why
> should we go through finger-tweaking
contortions and obsess over the
> octave of a bass note or two to try
to make the guitar sound like the
> harpsichord when we play it?

The thing is written largely in four parts, and combining parts the
way you did leads to misinterpretation. Of youtube guitar
renditions, only David Russell seems to attempt to play it
as intended. The different voices need to be at different
levels. IMO.

I think that because it is near impossible to write the parts
on one staff, that the guitar version would best be written
on two staves with two parts on each, just as the keyboard
version was, but using the familiar guitar clef. This would
probably be a good idea for renaissance lute music also.
Music on two staves for one guitar is not unknown. My first
practice with playing it was playing the Richard Pick
beginner's duets as solos. I wish you had written your
transcription that way. It's not too late. In D? or
even E?

In the Couperin, playing the bass voice staccato is a good
idea IMO. It sounds better and makes it easier at the same
time, a winning combination. IMO. Regards, Rale

[Learnwell]

> Music on two staves for one guitar is not unknown.

No, it is not. I first encountered it here.

http://www.classicalarchives.com/work/432863.html#tvf=tracks&tv=music

Interesting that they do not list the dedicatee, and his first performance and recording of the work.

In any case that is how it is written.

[Andrew Schulman]

On Monday, February 1, 2016 at 5:07:57 PM UTC-5, Richard Yates wrote:
> If Couperin was trying to make the harpsichord sound like a lute, why
> should we go through finger-tweaking contortions and obsess over the
> octave of a bass note or two to try to make the guitar sound like the
> harpsichord when we play it? S.L. Weiss wouldn't have.
>
> That's why I much prefer to play this version:
> http://www.yatesguitar.com/pdfs/lute-Couperin-MystBarr.pdf

Here's an 8-string version in C, with obsessive low Ds. No contortions here, not particularly difficult piece to play but also not easy.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/297664246/Couperin-The-Mysterious-Barricades-by-Francois-Couperin-arranged-by-Andrew-Schulman

Andrew

[David Raleigh Arnold]

On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 15:11:40 -0800 (PST)
tom g <tomgut...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Monday, February 1, 2016 at 11:07:57 PM UTC+1, Richard Yates wrote:

(...)

> Anyway, now is an opportunity to thank you for all
the great guitar music you have created for us!
>
> tom g

Yes! Kindest regards, Rale

[Andrew Schulman]

A revised version. I did this arrangement a long time ago but never memorized it, though I've always liked it a lot. I found easier and therefore better fingerings in five measures - 45, 48, 60, 61, and 64: https://www.scribd.com/doc/297856042/Couperin-The-Mysterious-Barricade

Andrew

[David Raleigh Arnold]

There is also something by Turina with a lot of simple rasgeado
in it that was written with the chords on one staff and the
rhythm on the other. Also see Carcassi Op 59 pp 17-19,

I understated the case, perhaps out of not realizing this
before after seeing transcriptions of lute music and what
a mess they were on one stave. No excuse. Regards, Rale

[Paul Magnussen]

Andrew Schulman wrote:

> Here's an 8-string version in C, with obsessive low Ds. No contortions here, not particularly difficult piece to play but also not easy.
>
> https://www.scribd.com/doc/297664246/Couperin-The-Mysterious-Barricades-by-Francois-Couperin-arranged-by-Andrew-Schulman

It's works even better for 2 guitars in C, with the 5th & 6th strings
tuned to C and G respectively. I did it that way for my wife and myself
to play; and (apart from transposing up from B flat to C) I only had to
change one note (a bass note up an octave).

Paul Magnussen

[Andrew Schulman]

Well, you remember that old quote from Chopin!

Andrew

[adrianm11]

El miércoles, 7 de noviembre de 2012 a la(s) 1:17:38 a. m. UTC-6, Fadosolrélamisi escribió:
> On Tuesday, November 6, 2012 12:54:34 PM UTC-8, pburdett wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> >
> >
> > Anyone know where I can get the D major arrangement of Myserious Barricades
> >
> > that Ben Verdary plays?
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Paul
> I have an arr. in D but it's by Alirio Diaz ...
> Following with the score (Diaz) in hand and with the music link you gave, I found that a lot of the bass were not held for their full duration, I am not familiar with the piece but I wonder how it would compare to the C version in term of the possibility to hold the bass. Anywhoo ... it's indeed a nice version and Verdery plays it superbly!