Angelo Gilardino Sonatas # 1 & 2

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Alain Reiher

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Jan 22, 2003, 6:24:16 PM1/22/03
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Maestro Gilardino, A million Grazie! Again.
The two Sonatas where awaiting me when I came back from work today!
Now ... this might be my last post for a while!
I already have two questions. The first concerning the character and
tempo of the first mvt of the first Sonata [ could you define what are
your intentions [for the character of the mvt] with the marking Allegro
Marziale? I need to understand that, first, to tentatively approach the
piece? a metronome marking suggestion would also help?] , and the second
concerning the g# of the first beat of measure two.
Accord plaqué [including the g#?] or g# and chord played separately?
Do you mind if I contact you privately eventually for some possible more
questions!
First It is going to take me some time to find out which one I want to
work on
And next ... the commitment *[ :-) ]*

Alain


Scott Daughtrey

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Jan 22, 2003, 7:03:47 PM1/22/03
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Alain Reiher wrote:

> Maestro Gilardino, A million Grazie! Again.

I as well. This is a wonderful challenge.

> The two Sonatas where awaiting me when I came back from work today!
> Now ... this might be my last post for a while!
> I already have two questions. The first concerning the character and
> tempo of the first mvt of the first Sonata [ could you define what are
> your intentions [for the character of the mvt] with the marking Allegro
> Marziale?

I've looked up "marziale" and the only translation I've found so far is
"martial". I wonder if this indicates a rigid adherence to tempo?

> I need to understand that, first, to tentatively approach the
> piece? a metronome marking suggestion would also help?] , and the second
> concerning the g# of the first beat of measure two.
> Accord plaqué [including the g#?] or g# and chord played separately?

I'm guessing simultaneously - it looks cleaner this way. If you notice Page
2, line 2, measue 2, I beleive the D# is also played simulataneously with
the chord (which is why it is dotted).

> Do you mind if I contact you privately eventually for some possible more
> questions!

Alain, I considered emailing Angelo today with the same request, but after
consideration I thought we would all benefit more if he will answer our
questions in this forum. This offers a few benefits: for one AG will not
have to repeat answers many times, as I understand he has sent several
copies, and likely we will all have similiar questions, and will similialry
benefit from the responses. This will also archive the questions for future
reference.

> First It is going to take me some time to find out which one I want to
> work on
> And next ... the commitment *[ :-) ]*

Hehe, how true. For what it's worth, Alain, it(Sonata n.1) is easier than it
first appears. I got it yesterday and have already become fairly comfortable
with the first movement (up to page 15). It is not as easy to read,
initially, but you will find many shapes and patterns, motifs and other
elements that ease the pain :-)

I think the interpretation will be more difficult. It is truly "art music"
in the classic sense, very theatrical and seems atonal in sections (haven't
had time for much analysis). It's definitely not Cascassi. (I'm sure I'm
saying nothing you haven't already realized!). I think the unfortunate part
is that it requires a certain type of audience to appreciate, and we are not
doing our part, particulary in my geographic area that I can speak of, the
school music programs have been all but eliminated.

Thanks again to Angelo; I believe this generous effort of his will prove
worthwhile not only for us, but Angelo as well. It's questionable if I would
be exposed to this type/level of material at this time if not for a gesture
like this.

Scott


Scott Daughtrey

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Jan 22, 2003, 8:34:42 PM1/22/03
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Scott Daughtrey wrote:

> Alain Reiher wrote:
>
> > Maestro Gilardino, A million Grazie! Again.
>
> I as well. This is a wonderful challenge.
>
> > The two Sonatas where awaiting me when I came back from work today!
> > Now ... this might be my last post for a while!
> > I already have two questions. The first concerning the character and
> > tempo of the first mvt of the first Sonata [ could you define what are
> > your intentions [for the character of the mvt] with the marking Allegro
> > Marziale?
>
> I've looked up "marziale" and the only translation I've found so far is
> "martial". I wonder if this indicates a rigid adherence to tempo?
>
> > I need to understand that, first, to tentatively approach the
> > piece? a metronome marking suggestion would also help?] , and the second
> > concerning the g# of the first beat of measure two.
> > Accord plaqué [including the g#?] or g# and chord played separately?
>
> I'm guessing simultaneously - it looks cleaner this way. If you notice Page
> 2,

Page 5, sorry for the confusion if there was any. I think even more that it is
part of the chord, offset for ease of reading. Another example is Page 6, sixth
line, second measure, second beat - you can see the extra note is dotted as the
preceding ones. Then again on page 14, where it is part of a rasguedo chord.

Incidentally, you may want to play page 6, line 4, measures 3 and 4 at your next
pow-wow (I'm likely gonna get Politically Corrected for saying this!).

Scott

dave payne

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Jan 23, 2003, 12:36:27 AM1/23/03
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Scott Daughtrey wrote:
...

> Incidentally, you may want to play page 6, line 4, measures 3 and 4 at your next
> pow-wow (I'm likely gonna get Politically Corrected for saying this!).

If you are referring to my little moments in the spotlight it had
nothing to do with political correctness, but rather with historical
fact. As long as you're not saying that the first government meeting in
Canada was held by the British or French, or the Vikings, you should be
fine. :)

Given the feel of the music in Sonata 1 by the way, I just took Allegro
Marziale to mean "marching" or "march-like", and fast.

Dave Payne,
the...@interlog.com

Scott Daughtrey

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Jan 23, 2003, 12:58:42 AM1/23/03
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dave payne wrote:

> Scott Daughtrey wrote:
> ...
> > Incidentally, you may want to play page 6, line 4, measures 3 and 4 at your next
> > pow-wow (I'm likely gonna get Politically Corrected for saying this!).
>
> If you are referring to my little moments in the spotlight

No, actually I was referring to the fact that the phrase sounds like the wondeful old
Americanized black-and-white Cowboy-and-Indian movies where the Natives all chant
"Hi-yi-ya-ya" while bobbing a palm over their face and dancing around the fire after a
nice haul on the peace pipe (or maybe "piece pipe" if they were musicians).

> it had
> nothing to do with political correctness, but rather with historical
> fact. As long as you're not saying that the first government meeting in
> Canada was held by the British or French, or the Vikings, you should be
> fine. :)

Indians? Government? No way, man, they were too busy fighting the Real Natives (don't
you know the first North American musicians were actually extra-terrestrial clones?
They did notate music, we just haven't the technology to extract it from crystal.
Duh...). Yup. Started in Canada, now duplicated in Canada. True Pioneers I tell ya'!
<bg>

Silly clones decided to hide inside buffalo skins, the rest is history.

Scott


Alain Reiher

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Jan 23, 2003, 1:37:56 AM1/23/03
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Yes! I think you are right concerning the writing of the g#.
Simultaneously... and if it is so, It is certainly a clever editorial
compromise to avoid the natural and # cluster.
For the marziale ... still ... marche-like?, fast?, as suggested by
Dave? Strict tempo? [again a metronome suggestion would be helpful! a
range between ? and ? ] With the word marziale I cannot avoid thinking
almost automatically about a military parade ....
stamina, power, marching as one ... in all strictness. [Rectitude?]
It would also help to set the table to know who were Antonio Fontanesi
and Ramòn Nadal? [Hivern florit?] and the story behind that has
stimulated the dedicace.
It is nice to have for once a score where the "in the back of the mind
changing fingering habit" is put to the neutral mode!

Alain

dave payne

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Jan 23, 2003, 2:05:10 AM1/23/03
to
Scott Daughtrey wrote:
> Indians? Government? No way, man, they were too busy fighting the Real Natives (don't
> you know the first North American musicians were actually extra-terrestrial clones?
> They did notate music, we just haven't the technology to extract it from crystal.
> Duh...). Yup. Started in Canada, now duplicated in Canada. True Pioneers I tell ya'!
> <bg>

I thought the extra-terrestrials (the pre-Roswell ones I mean) were way
down south Mexico way and further, where all the really impressive stuff
is? :)

Dave Payne,
the...@interlog.com

Angelo Gilardino

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Jan 23, 2003, 3:04:18 AM1/23/03
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"Alain Reiher" <rei...@telus.net> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:3E2F280C...@telus.net...
> Maestro Gilardino,

> I already have two questions. The first concerning the character and
> tempo of the first mvt of the first Sonata [ could you define what are
> your intentions [for the character of the mvt] with the marking Allegro
> Marziale?

Marziale = March like. Take it at a tempo which conceal your idea of a march
(not run).
The character is multilayered. I am not a good interpreter of my own music -
I never played it and I avoid giving lessons with my music on the stand.


I need to understand that, first, to tentatively approach the
> piece? a metronome marking suggestion would also help?] ,

See above. However, not fast. The quarter note at 108-112? I do not know...


and the second
> concerning the g# of the first beat of measure two.
> Accord plaqué [including the g#?] or g# and chord played separately?

The gsharp is included in the chord. The piece is basically bi-tonal, and
two keys, E major and E minor - as well as their extended areas - are often
mixed, with Gsharp and Gnatural either simultaneous, or in a rapid
succession (the very first measure shows already such an ambiguity). I am
wondering what this might represent to the eyes of the musicologists
described in another thread by Matanya...


> Do you mind if I contact you privately eventually for some possible more
> questions!

At your orders!

AG


ilf...@yahoo.dk

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Jan 23, 2003, 3:07:06 AM1/23/03
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Your in formation is very much apreciated by me;after tasting the
music of Gilardino at this adres
http://www.cristianoporqueddu.com/cd.htm.I certainly will return to
his studies,and it looks like the sonate nr 1 is also within my level
of playing
best regards
Ilf Kari Danmark

Scott Daughtrey <scot...@travel-net.com> wrote in message news:<3E2F3163...@travel-net.com>...

Angelo Gilardino

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Jan 23, 2003, 3:09:23 AM1/23/03
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"Scott Daughtrey" <scot...@travel-net.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:3E2F3163...@travel-net.com...
>
>

>
> Thanks again to Angelo; I believe this generous effort of his will prove
> worthwhile not only for us, but Angelo as well. It's questionable if I
would
> be exposed to this type/level of material at this time if not for a
gesture
> like this.
>
> Scott

Thankyou, Scott. Have a nice day.

AG


Angelo Gilardino

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Jan 23, 2003, 3:22:25 AM1/23/03
to

"Alain Reiher" <rei...@telus.net> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:3E2F8DAF...@telus.net...

> Yes! I think you are right concerning the writing of the g#.
> Simultaneously... and if it is so, It is certainly a clever editorial
> compromise to avoid the natural and # cluster.
> For the marziale ... still ... marche-like?, fast?, as suggested by
> Dave? Strict tempo? [again a metronome suggestion would be helpful! a
> range between ? and ? ] With the word marziale I cannot avoid thinking
> almost automatically about a military parade ....
> stamina, power, marching as one ... in all strictness. [Rectitude?]

Exactly, Alain. Still, beyond such a martial surface, the music shows
tenderness, irony, melancholy, "a sad smile".

> It would also help to set the table to know who were Antonio Fontanesi
> and Ramòn Nadal? [Hivern florit?] and the story behind that has
> stimulated the dedicace.
> It is nice to have for once a score where the "in the back of the mind
> changing fingering habit" is put to the neutral mode!

They were painters. Antonio Fontanesi was the most important painter here in
my region (Piedmont) in the 19th century. His landscapes are "black":
mysterious, dark, somewhat stormy, with a deeply meditative character. The
titles "Clouds", "Solitude", etc. refer more to inner feels than to
athmospheres.

Ramon Nadal (1913-1999) whom I knew personally was one of the leading
painters in the Mediterranean Island of Mallorca. All of his life was
devoted to paint the marvels of his native landscape. His pictures are
strongly colored, fanciful, in a way between post-impressionistic and fauve.
I was inspired by a picture of his, entitled "Hivern Florit" - a blossomed
winter. In the lukewarm tenderness of the island weather, winter, instead of
ice and show, brought a breeze which stimulated the growth of little
flowers, not as brightly colored as the Spring flowers, but more delicate.
The Sonata n. 2 is devoted to this exception in the rhythm of the seasons,
as depitched by Nadal. When composing the work, on the terrace of hotel
Palladium at Palma de Mallorca, I recalled of Marcel Proust observation
("...sometimes we meet in a season a fragment of another season...").

AG


Alain Reiher

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Jan 23, 2003, 11:53:15 AM1/23/03
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Ha! that's great! and thank you for disclosing the source of those powerful and clear images, valuable informnation to set the tone and discover the spirit of the music.
Now I understand why I instinctively felt an inner connection with the Sonata 2! Your description bellow of Nadal's painting match exactly the kind of winter we have here in Vancouver. Small crocus blooming sometimes as early as february when the rest of the country is still submerged by snow and freezing cold! I am gathering those info into the  plastic pocket that came with the scores.

Alain

dave payne

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Jan 23, 2003, 3:59:55 PM1/23/03
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Angelo Gilardino wrote:
> See above. However, not fast. The quarter note at 108-112? I do not know...

[the jackal addresses the lion but what the hell :) ]

I think even a bit slower than this sounds better, say 100-104 or
100-108, and I think that this is indeed fast (in feel, not in metronome
number). Imagine being out in the field marching along at this tempo as
part of a unit, counting left-right-left-right at mm = 104. It is a
brisk pace that fairly quickly gets out of hand as you speed up the
metronome, and the march becomes forced rather than fast. The music goes
through a similar transformation.

Dave Payne,
the...@interlog.com

Terlizzi

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Jan 23, 2003, 5:44:08 PM1/23/03
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>Given the feel of the music in Sonata 1 by the way, I just took Allegro
>
>Marziale to mean "marching" or "march-like", and fast.

This music evokes in my mind The Republic of Salo, German occupation, the
Prokofiev War Sonatas, Mahler's 6th symphony , Clockwork Orange etc...

Angelo Gilardino

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Jan 23, 2003, 9:06:24 PM1/23/03
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"dave payne" <the...@interlog.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:fJYX9.434698$F2h1....@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...

The truth, Dave, is that I do not own a metronome - I never did in my life,
even when I was active as a concert player, and then your suggestion is
surely more appropriate than mine.

Thankyou. Ciao.

AG


Angelo Gilardino

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Jan 23, 2003, 9:29:21 PM1/23/03
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"Terlizzi" <terl...@aol.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:20030123174408...@mb-fr.aol.com...

Prokofiev and Mahler are surely and steadily in my mind. Add also Bartok,
Falla and Ghedini and the list of my masters is complete. I recall that,
when composing the Sonata n. 1, I was taken by a sense of something
"remote", very distant in my memory, buried, which the act of composing that
piece was in a way evocating. It was a terrible effort - much more than
usual when composing (as you know too well, Mark, it is never a walk in the
park, but that time it was really too much). Now, the shocking revelation -
with respect to what you wrote:
a few nights before the premiere of the piece, which was given not by its
dedicatee (he never played it), but by another forefront Italian guitarist
(at that time the foremost one, then brought far from the music by his
creative personality), I dreamt of him, dressed an officer of the Wermacht,
who, as the commander of a number of German soldiers, had invaded the big
court of the farm where I lived with my family in the years of the war and
for a while after. No connection with the truth: in fact, the farm had been
occupied, since April 25th, 1945, but by the USA army, which established a
friendly connection with my family and with me especially (it was from Fred,
an American officer, which I received the gift of the first chocolate of my
life: in the farm we had everything to eat, but no sugar, let alone
chocolate). My mother, who is still alive and bright, has been unable to
explain me how I could have built up that dream, though she confirmed that I
may have had several occasions to see German soldiers at that epoque: it was
common to meet them in Vercelli. Needless to say, the first performance had
been outstanding, and I recall somebody had remarked the perfection of the
motoric rhythm of the first movement.

Music is a strange matter. I am asthonished.

AG

John Wasak

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Jan 23, 2003, 10:28:49 PM1/23/03
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Angelo Gilardino <angelog...@tin.it> wrote:
> The truth, Dave, is that I do not own a metronome - I never did in my
life,
> even when I was active as a concert player, and then your suggestion is
> surely more appropriate than mine.
>
> Thankyou. Ciao.
>
> AG
>

Thank you, Angelo, for mentioning this. In reading this, I've just settled
another inch or two deeper into the comfort of my own disinterest in
enveloping my music making activities with the tic-tic-ticking of time's
tale told.


JW


Terlizzi

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Jan 24, 2003, 4:43:30 PM1/24/03
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Angelo,
I have to ask you: was Fred the spiritual inspiration for Appaloosa? with
titles such as Longhorn Ghosts, Peace-maker 45, Boothill, Saguaro (?) and the
Riders in the Sky, maybe there was a bit of Pecos Bill in Fred!!
PS, I don't know this piece other than the titles
mark delpriora

Angelo Gilardino

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Jan 24, 2003, 5:20:11 PM1/24/03
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"Terlizzi" <terl...@aol.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:20030124164330...@mb-ml.aol.com...

> Angelo,
> I have to ask you: was Fred the spiritual inspiration for Appaloosa? with
> titles such as Longhorn Ghosts, Peace-maker 45, Boothill, Saguaro (?) and
the
> Riders in the Sky, maybe there was a bit of Pecos Bill in Fred!!
> PS, I don't know this piece other than the titles
> mark delpriora
>

No, it wasn't Fred. My recalling of Fred is that of a good wizard: quite a
chapter in the book of my memories, if I will ever write it. You are right
(again) in detecting Pecos Bill in the background of "Appaloosa": in fact,
it is a short suite whose five movements were inspired by the memories of my
reading - each week - Pecos Bill, which had an Italian version published
each Friday at the beginning of the Fifties. It was an unsuccessful attempt
I did to compose in a childish manner, as the music were thought by a kid of
eight years, and "transcribed" from his mind by a faithful, neutral,
composer. "Saguaro" is the name given in those cartoons to the cactus. The
legend tells that big cactus - the desert tree - if broken (at a painful
price) by one's hands, would allow some drop of water to be squeezed from
its inside. Pecos Bill, left alone in the desert, was saved by a saguaro. I
still like the fancies that world suggested to my mind, not different from
those suggested by the Iliade or by Orlando Furioso. Unfortunately, the
piece was not as good as my fancies. It will not be included in the
publication of my complete works.

AG


Terlizzi

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Jan 24, 2003, 7:11:09 PM1/24/03
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Dear Angelo,
Thanks for the background of his piece.

>were inspired by the memories of my
>reading - each week - Pecos Bill, which had an Italian version published
>each Friday at the beginning of the Fifties

Was it a comic book?

>You are right
>(again) in detecting Pecos Bill in the background of "Appaloosa":

because I do not have the score in this case, I used Gianni Nuti's book for
reference. It is he that refers to Pecos Bill.


>It will not be included in the
>publication of my complete works.

If the music was thought by a kid of eight, perhaps there is some potential
pedagogical value in this piece? something a young student can relate to? maybe
an arrangement for multiple guitars if it is difficult...
(but I suspect you closed the book on this piece)
mark delpriora


dave payne

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Jan 24, 2003, 7:13:48 PM1/24/03
to
Angelo Gilardino wrote:
> The truth, Dave, is that I do not own a metronome - I never did in my life,
> even when I was active as a concert player, and then your suggestion is
> surely more appropriate than mine.

I only use it as a measuring device myself. Nothing beats it for
communicating tempos. This reminds me of a question I wanted to ask.
Quite a few of your editions have metronome markings specified. Are
these all by the composers themselves?

And, if I may, another totally unrelated question. A lot of the items in
the printed Berben catalog have no editor's name listed by them. Is it
safe to assume that you were the editor? (One example is John Arran's
Toccata)

Thanks,
Dave Payne,
the...@interlog.com

dave payne

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Jan 24, 2003, 7:26:27 PM1/24/03
to
John Wasak wrote:

> Thank you, Angelo, for mentioning this. In reading this, I've just settled
> another inch or two deeper into the comfort of my own disinterest in
> enveloping my music making activities with the tic-tic-ticking of time's
> tale told.

Have you seen or heard Baden Powell's Choro para Metronomo? Paolo
Bellinati plays it on his cd Serenata as a metronome ticks along for the
duration. It's a bit amusing to listen to (and play with) because of the
way the emphasized notes in the music get out of phase with the
tic-tic-ticking of the metronome.

Dave Payne,
the...@interlog.com

Terlizzi

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Jan 24, 2003, 9:12:20 PM1/24/03
to
dave,
You might get a kick out of Ligeti's "Poeme Symphonique" for 100 metronomes.
mark

John Wasak

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Jan 24, 2003, 9:34:31 PM1/24/03
to


Yes! I have a recording of Baden Powell himself playing the Choro Para
Metronome, it's on the same recording where he plays the most amazing
'Garota De Ipanema' I've ever heard! Actually, I'd prefer to have heard
that Choro without the metronome but since it's a rather rhythmic piece in
Baden Powell's hands the effect of the metronome seems to come across more
as that of a drummer just keeping time by tapping one stick against the
other. In more strictly classical music though, where the rhythms are less
pronounced the sound of the metronome to me is jarring.

As for classical (well, "light-classical") music with sound effects
incorporated in them there was Leroy Anderson with things like "The
Syncopated Clock" (used as a theme for an old Late Movie Show) and "The
Typewriter"where you hear that machine's tapping keys, grinding shifts, and
the tinkling margin bell.

Ya' know, I kind of miss that tinkling margin bell these days....maybe some
company (Dell?) could add one to the computer keyboard these days....


JW

dave payne

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Jan 27, 2003, 12:01:36 AM1/27/03
to
Terlizzi wrote:
> dave,
> You might get a kick out of Ligeti's "Poeme Symphonique" for 100 metronomes.
> mark

I just finished listening to www.wfmu.org/playlists/shows/3494 (from
about 5:40 to about 25:30 of the 3 hour realaudio stream) and I did. Thanks.

Dave Payne,
the...@interlog.com

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