Need Help Identifying Guitar: Garcia 1A
Brian Graham
called a Garcia, the model number is 1A, there is no serial number but the
label says the exclusive distributor is Antigua Casa Sherry Brener, Ltd. of
Madrid.
It appears to be a solid wood soundboard and the sides and back appear to be
rosewood. He says he bought the guitar in late 1969. Any additional
information or insight into this guitar would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Remove "postheap" when responding.
Ray Sparrowe
wrote:
Sherry-Brener imported a number of guitars during the late 60s and
early 70s with labels saying "Antigua Casa ... Madrid." The labels
carried Spanish names (e.g. Garcia, Hernandis, Barbero) as if the
instruments were built in Madrid by Spanish luthiers. Sherry-Brener,
however, was a Chicago importer.
It's highly likely that these guitars actually were made in Japan, not
in Madrid -- and certainly not my luthiers named Garcia, Hernandis, or
Barbero. The use of the Barbero name was especially misleading given
the link to the "real" Barbero family that made wonderful flamenco and
classical instruments. (Jim Sherry was forced to remove the "Barbero"
labels from his remaining inventory when a customer discovered that
there was no "Barbero" who made his instrument working in Madrid).
I own one of the "label-less" Barbero instruments. Although Jim Sherry
has said to my face that my instrument was built in Spain by a luthier
who trained in the Ramirez shop, I believe he's telling tales. Richard
Brune, a well-respected luthier who knows a lot about the history of
classical guitars, tells me that my "Barbero" was built in Japan.
There are construction details on these instruments that are
characteristic of Japanese shops and never would be used in Spain.
So, the Garcia probably is from the same lineage -- an instrument
makde in Japan, imported to Chicago, and labeled with a Spanish
sounding name. As for the construction, there seems to have been some
variation in the instruments. Although I can't speak for the Garcia
line, I know that some of the Barberos were solid wood all around
whereas others had laminated sides.
A luthier could give you more information about the construction.
However, don't bother to call Sherry-Brener -- who knows what you'll
be told!
Ray
Matanya Ophee
>
>A luthier could give you more information about the construction.
>However, don't bother to call Sherry-Brener -- who knows what you'll
>be told!
You seem to know already! I have known Jim Sherry for well over 40
years. I have had many business dealings with him and was always
treated up front. Do call him, and say hello for me. He is in the
Chicago phone book.
Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphée, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH, 43235-1226
Phone: 614-846-9517
Fax: 614-846-9794
Check out the Orphée Catalogue at:
http://www.orphee.com
Including the on-line guitar magazine titled: Guitar And Lute Issues
Matanya Ophee
>The use of the Barbero name was especially misleading given
>the link to the "real" Barbero family that made wonderful flamenco and
>classical instruments. (Jim Sherry was forced to remove the "Barbero"
>labels from his remaining inventory when a customer discovered that
>there was no "Barbero" who made his instrument working in Madrid).
Is this a fact on record someplace, or just a rumor you have heard?
The so called "link" to the name Barbero, or to the name Garcia, is
something which may be entirely coincidental. There are 60 Garcias in
the phone book right here in Columbus Ohio and I am sure you will find
that many in the Chicago phone book. Do you know how many Barberos are
there in the Madrid phone book?
To establish such a link is just as logical as stating that Mauro
Giuliani was into politics as evident from the fact that one Rudolph
Giuliani is the Mayor of New York City and perhaps a US senator next
year. (There are 7 Giulianis, 5 Morettis 25 Mertzs an 3 Cherubinis in
the Columbus phone book. One Giuliani I know here was a guy
specializing in drainage systems. Could certainly use his services in
draining this NG from unwarranted slander by rumor and innuendo on
people who are not here to defend themselves.)
>I own one of the "label-less" Barbero instruments. Although Jim Sherry
>has said to my face that my instrument was built in Spain by a luthier
>who trained in the Ramirez shop, I believe he's telling tales. Richard
>Brune, a well-respected luthier who knows a lot about the history of
>classical guitars, tells me that my "Barbero" was built in Japan.
>There are construction details on these instruments that are
>characteristic of Japanese shops and never would be used in Spain.
Without getting into the details here (I have not seen your instrument
and I am not qualified to judge such matters even if you showed it to
me) I would take Richard's judgements here with some circumspection.
It was one thing to say this to you privately, and it is quite another
thing to prove the matter in a court of law.
whi...@flash.net
<m.o...@orphee.com> wrote:
<snip>
> To establish such a link is just as logical as stating that Mauro
> Giuliani was into politics as evident from the fact that one Rudolph
> Giuliani is the Mayor of New York City and perhaps a US senator next
> year. (There are 7 Giulianis, 5 Morettis 25 Mertzs an 3 Cherubinis in
> the Columbus phone book.
True Story:
A couple or three years ago I ran into a New York City policeman named
Cherubini in Nathan's (of hot dog fame) at Coney Island in Brooklyn.
Thinking I'd have a little fun, I told him there was a famous composer
named Cherubini. His eyes lit up in recognition, so I asked jokingly if he
might be related in any way. He quickly informed me that he thought so (or
his father did at any rate) and how proud he was to be related to the
composer of Carmen!
Richard White
--
THE MUSIC OF RICHARD WHITE whi...@flash.net
http://listen.to/richardwhite
NEWLY UPDATED with MP3 Files and Scores
Ray Sparrowe
wrote:
>spar...@enteract.com (Ray Sparrowe) wrote:
>
>>The use of the Barbero name was especially misleading given
>>the link to the "real" Barbero family that made wonderful flamenco and
>>classical instruments. (Jim Sherry was forced to remove the "Barbero"
>>labels from his remaining inventory when a customer discovered that
>>there was no "Barbero" who made his instrument working in Madrid).
>
>Is this a fact on record someplace, or just a rumor you have heard?
>
>The so called "link" to the name Barbero, or to the name Garcia, is
>something which may be entirely coincidental. There are 60 Garcias in
>the phone book right here in Columbus Ohio and I am sure you will find
>that many in the Chicago phone book. Do you know how many Barberos are
>there in the Madrid phone book?
>
Matanya,
Your point is well taken about the link to the name "Barbero." I
should have provided more detail.
I bought the "label-less 'Barbero'" from a friend in 1972. He, in
turn, had bought the instrument from Jim Sherry through Nelson Amos,
his teacher, who was working for Jim at the time. When the labels had
to be removed, the ex-"Barberos" could no longer be sold for $2,000.
Nelson was helping Jim by marketing the label-less instruments to his
students at the highly discounted price of $400. Nelson is the person
who explained the situation to my friend -- including the business
about a purchaser being unable to find the "Barbero" who built his
instrument in Madrid. Some years later I talked to Nelson and he
confirmed what I had been told.
You are correct that the "link" to the name Barbero -- or Garcia, or
Hernandis -- may have been entirely coincidental. Nevertheless, the
Sherry-Brener label of that period led the buyer to believe that the
instrument was made in Spain.
I'm willing to acknowledge that I don't have hard facts. All I have is
what Jim Sherry, Nelson Amos, and Richard Brune have told me. Richard
Brune's judgment about my instrument might be wrong. Maybe the
instrument I have really was made in Spain by someone who worked in
the Ramirez shop -- as Jim Sherry wants me to believe. However, I'm
placing my bets with Brune -- especially given the careful inspection
he gave my instrument and his overall knowledge of classical guitar
construction.
If you have better information than I do, please let me know.
Ray
Rogluthier
he sold a student one of those mislabelled and misleading Sherry-Brenner
imports. The father of the student happened to be an attorney and when the
deception was revealed the ennsuing communications with the university resulted
in the teacher's immediate dismissal. This is the damage that results when
people use unethical means (false labels) to sell instruments. I am aware of
other instances where owners who paid dearly for the fake "Barbero" guitars
(which have the specific Barbero head shape as a "signature") can't sell them
for more than $500 even though it's now thirty years later and the instruments
are in excellent condition.
In the antiquities/collectabes business whenever something recognized as a fake
or forgery the value falls nearly to zero.
Roger Thurman
Thurman Guitar & Violin Repair, Inc.
900 Franklin Ave.
Kent, OH 44240
330-673-4054
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/Rogluthier/
25 years in repair, making and sales.
Martin - Fender Warranty Repair
Visa/MC Shipment on approval
Matanya Ophee
No, I do not have any hard facts. Except this one: it is a criminal
offence to misrepresent the country of origin in any commercial
imports. Whatever one may think about Jim Sherry, you can rest assured
that he is not a fool and would not risk serious trouble with the
customs authorities. Besides, we are talking here about factory made
guitars, not about hand-made luthier instruments. I am sure Richard
Brune knows what he is talking about regarding construction details
between Spanish and Japanese makers, but I am not sure these details
apply to factory made instrument. There is another possibility: the
guitars were actually assembled in a Mexican maquilladora from parts
manufactured in Romania according to Japanese designs and shipped en
mass to Spain from where they were imported to the US. Far fetched you
say?
Happens all the time.
Matanya Ophee
>The first classical guitar instructor at Akron University lost his job because
>he sold a student one of those mislabelled and misleading Sherry-Brenner
>imports. The father of the student happened to be an attorney and when the
>deception was revealed the ennsuing communications with the university resulted
>in the teacher's immediate dismissal.
Was in fact the instrument in question, or the long standing policy in
most universities that professors should not engage in commercial
activities with their students?
Rogluthier
>most universities that professors should not engage in commercial
>activities with their students?
>
As I understand it there would have been no problem unless the fraud had been
pointed out. Many schools steer clear of a stated policy regarding teacher
sales because a lot of this activity takes place especially in the area of
piano and violin sales. It is a source of alternate income for many teachers
who overty or subtly discourage the students for buying anywhere that doesn't
provide the expected "finder's fee" or kick-back.
I have direct knowledge of three institutions of higher learning which hide
their heads in the sand at the mention of "teacher sales." In one case I asked
the head of a prominent conservatory if the faculty handbook made mention of
teacher conduct involving sales and was told that: It's not necessary, we are
senstive professionals whose knowledge is needed to help the student decide. I
agree but that leaves the field open to abuse by less "sensitive" faculty.
When a sale goes bad, however, once an attorney becomes involved they will do
anything to avoid litigation and negative publicity because the legal codes
favor the buyer protection in instances of possible fraud and deception.
I urge any student who is dissatisfied with a purchase effected through a
teacher and who is afraid to bring it up with said teacher to seek legal
advice. You definitely have rights which should not be overlooked. This "fear
factor" is precisely the problem inherent in teacher sales. Good legal advice
will straighten things out very quickly.
In Ohio the only direct mention of teacher sales in the code is in the area of
textbook acquisition that has seen some major scandals where teachers promoted
a certain textbook for the school system or for state approval when in fact
said teachers were "acting" as agents for the publishers.
Generally, an agent or "law merchant" means your expertise and knowledge is
used in the conduct of a sale irregardless of whether you own or physically
posess the sales item. Your expertise and involvement pull you under the
mercantile code. This is a problem for teachers who are paid with state or
federal taxpayer funds and use that position to effect sales. It is a problem
for the student since the teacher's position changes to that of a merchant with
no warning and is further complicated by the fact of the teacher also dispenses
a subjective grade which may be affected by where the student buys an
instrument.
Not all teachers involve themselves in sales, BTW. Some plainly recognize the
conflicts of interest and avoid the situation completely.
Harry Lynch
One more little blurb on the "Barbero" Sherry-Brenner guitars. These were
labelled "Marcelino Barbero" to suggest that they were made by Marcelo
Barbero's son, who was not producing guitars with his own label -- but
rather was building for the shop of Arcangel Fernandez (and still does).
They had a Ramirez-style headstock, usually a cedar top and were built in
Japan. By most accounts, including Richard Brune's, some of these guitars
were very good sounding instruments. But they were certainly not Barberos,
and once this was discovered, value plummetted. Interestingly, the
Marcelo/Marcelino confusion still exists, and to this day one can
occasionally see even supposedly knowledgeable dealers selling a Marcelino
and thinking it's made by Marcelo's son.
Harry Lynch
alanapril
one has eyes or ears. If someone is willing to pay $2,000 for a
$80 Romanian guitar, because of its fancy sounding Spanish name,
the buyer is getting precisely what he wanted, a $40 guitar and
a $4,000 label. Certainly, the greatest obstacle LA SI DO of
Quebec, has in selling its $400 guitars with $2,000 worth of
sound is the American addiction to high prices, fancy labels,
and the inability to listen to a guitar on its merits, and not
listen to its name.
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