John Williams plays Carlo Domeniconi's Koyunbaba
ja...@my-deja.com
I started listening to Carlo Domeniconi's Koyunbaba tracks from John
Williams's _The Guitarist John Williams_ CD and have been amazed by
this.
Does anyone out there have experience with this piece? It is only
played by one person, right? It seems like it would take a long, long
time to get this down. Perhaps difficulty in comparison to the
Chaconne.
Any other thoughts on this? Have you all heard any other portrayals of
it other than Williams?
I found the arrangement at GSP and it's about $20.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Klaus Heim
<ja...@my-deja.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:8mmv21$e9p$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
>
> I started listening to Carlo Domeniconi's Koyunbaba tracks from John
> Williams's _The Guitarist John Williams_ CD and have been amazed by
> this.
>
> Does anyone out there have experience with this piece? It is only
> played by one person, right? It seems like it would take a long, long
> time to get this down. Perhaps difficulty in comparison to the
> Chaconne.
Yes, only one person playing. Due to the alternate tuning and the resulting
frequent use of open strings, these effects are produced. Actually the first
three parts are fairly easy, only part four requires a bit more technical
prowess, especially played at Presto speed. The Chaconne is much more
difficult, retaining the musical suspense over 15 minutes is not an easy
task.
>
> Any other thoughts on this? Have you all heard any other portrayals of
> it other than Williams?
Most renditions are terrible, and besides the point. Until shortly my
favorite version was by Iwan Tanzil. Now it is by Yoshiaki Kamata. He does
some nice improvising and he plays the Presto at a crazy speed.
While I'm at it, if you can find the CD by Kamata (Libra Sonatina, Camerata
1996), it is a must. The pieces are: Kleynjans "Arabesque en Forme de
Caprice" (a cool, underrated piece), Dyens "Saudade No.3", Dyens "Libra
Sonatina" (Kamata sure knows what Fuoco means), Ginastera "Sonata", and
Koyunbaba.
Klaus
Vivienne McLaughlin
> A lot of people don't like this piece, or claim not to.
> I like it.
I find that very hard to believe! Maybe because it is so overrated people
think it is cool to act ambivalent towards it. I think this is one of the
pieces that make playing solo guitar worthwhile.
> I guess that makes me unsophisticated and
> lacking in musical taste, but what the hell?
Huh?
V.
Vivienne McLaughlin
> Open strings in an alternate tuning is the key along with an
> advanced skill level to play it up to tempo.
Not really. You don't have to be advanced to play this. I found it much
easier to learn than Aguado's Rondo in Am, Asturias, and most of Bach's Lute
suites. In fact, the hardest part to learning it is really just being
disciplined enough to tune to open C# minor everyday in order to play only
one piece.
> My cg teacher is practicing it now and I have been able to see the
> magic even though I'm not ready to start working on a piece like it yet.
Nonsense. Part one is incredibly simple, part two only slightly harder, part
three requires a little coordination, and part four demands good RH speed.
Part four needs some serious attention, but you could fly through the first
three parts quickly. You could begin learning parts one and two immediately,
and gain tons of confidence.
V.
Robert Smith
advanced skill level to play it up to tempo.
magic even though I'm not ready to start working on a piece like it yet.
It is a hypnotic piece as lots of middle eastern music is.
Listen to Antogoni Goni's rendition too!
Robert (knotbob) Smith
larry...@my-deja.com
> A lot of people don't like this piece, or claim not to.
Why the assumption they are lying? I've only heard of a few who didn't
like it and they generally don't care for trick guitar pieces and
prefer music that stands on its own like Bach. I can't imagine this
piece on piano because it is so well suited to CG.
> A lot of people don't like this piece, or claim not to.
Why the assumption they are lying?
> I like it. I guess that makes me unsophisticated and
> lacking in musical taste, but what the hell?
I like it too. Why make this sound like those who don't like it are
pretentious? Why would you think others would think that those of us
who like it are "unsophisticated and lacking in musical taste"?
The piece is difficult for most players and non trivial to perform
because of the length and unforgiving rhythm, whereas the Chaconne has
lots of places to get your bearings and can be distorted in many places
without much loss for most audiences. The first movement is relatively
easy and fun to play but the retuning for this piece is painful. It
makes use of the open (C# minor) tuning to do some cool effects that
exploit the guitar and makes one's guitar vibrate like crazy ( my
guitar seemed to love the piece). It is limited in musical complexity
compared to the Chaconne. I have played them both but the Chaconne took
a lot longer to learn and I'm still learning from it. I don't think I
played Koyunbaba as it should have been done since I don't know the
style of music well and imposed my own musical biases on it. The
retuning got to me so I quit trying to keep it in my repertoire.
> I like it. I guess that makes me unsophisticated and
> lacking in musical taste, but what the hell?
I like it too. Why make this sound like those who don't like it are
pretentious? Why would you think others would think that those of us
who like it are "unsophisticated and lacking in musical taste"?
The piece is difficult for most players and non trivial to perform
because of the length and unforgiving rhythm. The Chaconne has lots of
places to get your bearings and can be distorted in many places without
much loss for most audiences. The first movement is relatively easy and
fun to play but the retuning for this piece is painful. It makes use of
the open (C# minor) tuning to do some cool effects that exploit the
guitar and makes one's guitar vibrate like crazy ( my guitar seemed to
love the piece). It is limited in musical complexity compared to the
Chaconne. I have played them both but the Chaconne took a lot longer to
learn and I'm still learning from it. I don't think I played Koyunbaba
as it should have been done since I don't know the style of music well
and imposed my own musical biases on it. The retuning got to me so I
quit trying to keep it in my repertoire.
Dawn and Todd Tipton
ja...@my-deja.com wrote:
> I started listening to Carlo Domeniconi's Koyunbaba tracks from John
> Williams's _The Guitarist John Williams_ CD and have been amazed by
> this.
>
Hello all,
Not to impugn on all the great recent work of John Williams, but I am very
fond of Antigoni Goni's recording of Koyunbaba; and it is less than half
the price.
ja...@my-deja.com
"Klaus Heim" <klh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, only one person playing. Due to the alternate tuning and the
resulting
> frequent use of open strings, these effects are produced. Actually
What is the tuning to get there? They said C# minor-- what does that
change the string tuning to be?
> prowess, especially played at Presto speed. The Chaconne is much more
> difficult, retaining the musical suspense over 15 minutes is not an
Time wise Koyunbaba seems comparable. The Williams version is about 14
minutes.
> favorite version was by Iwan Tanzil. Now it is by Yoshiaki Kamata. He
does
> some nice improvising and he plays the Presto at a crazy speed.
Great. I found it at amazon, but it says there can be a long wait.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000001ZKT/002-1532710-6719220
Klaus Heim
<ja...@my-deja.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:8mp6tv$29j$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <8mn22s$q5u$1...@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>,
> "Klaus Heim" <klh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> > Yes, only one person playing. Due to the alternate tuning and the
> resulting
> > frequent use of open strings, these effects are produced. Actually
>
> What is the tuning to get there? They said C# minor-- what does that
> change the string tuning to be?
The guitar is tuned DADADF (from 6 to 1). Domeniconi recommends tuning it a
half-step lower, making it C#G#C#G#C#E. Not to worry, the score is written
in scordatura. The upper line with the actual sound, the lower, from which
one plays, written as if one were in "normal" tuning. So you don't have to
worry about the alternate tuning, you play as if it were in regular tuning,
it just sounds different.
>
> > prowess, especially played at Presto speed. The Chaconne is much more
> > difficult, retaining the musical suspense over 15 minutes is not an
>
> Time wise Koyunbaba seems comparable. The Williams version is about 14
> minutes.
Koyunbaba is a suite, comprising four parts. Chaconne is one extended piece.
>
> > favorite version was by Iwan Tanzil. Now it is by Yoshiaki Kamata. He
> does
> > some nice improvising and he plays the Presto at a crazy speed.
>
> Great. I found it at amazon, but it says there can be a long wait.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000001ZKT/002-1532710-6719220
>
It will be worth it.
Klaus
Markanto
minor; Can anyone tell me the exact tuning of each string used for this
piece? It always causes havoc with my guitar to retune for one piece.
Also, has John Williams recorded this work? Id appreciate any information.
Mark.
John Sloan <jsl...@telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:2E468D...@telusplanet.net...
> ja...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone out there have experience with this piece? It is only
> > played by one person, right?
>
> Yes, it's a solo.
>
> > It seems like it would take a long, long
> > time to get this down. Perhaps difficulty in comparison to the
> > Chaconne.
>
> This is one of those pieces that fool the ear. In reality,
> it's much easier than the Chaconne. The only tricky parts,
> technically, come in the last movement; and, they're not
> too bad, really. Koyunbaba is no harder to play than, say,
> Duarte's English Suite. In many ways, it's easier than
> Asturias, technically.
>
> > Any other thoughts on this? Have you all heard any other portrayals of
> > it other than Williams?
>
> William Kanangeiser has a good recording of it in his album,
> "Echos of The Old World."
>
> A lot of people don't like this piece, or claim not to.
> I like it. I guess that makes me unsophisticated and
> lacking in musical taste, but what the hell?
>
> John Sloan
>
Mark Westling
Best regards,
Mark Westling
"Markanto" <mark...@callnetuk.com> wrote in message
news:3990...@eeyore.callnetuk.com...
Thomas F Brown
Klaus Heim <klh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>The guitar is tuned DADADF (from 6 to 1). Domeniconi recommends tuning it a
>half-step lower, making it C#G#C#G#C#E. Not to worry, the score is written
>in scordatura. The upper line with the actual sound, the lower, from which
>one plays, written as if one were in "normal" tuning. So you don't have to
>worry about the alternate tuning, you play as if it were in regular tuning,
>it just sounds different.
This would drive me insane, to be playing something as written and
have it come out sounding totally different notes because of the
altered tuning. I don't understand how people can compartmentalize
the sounds and the fingerings. I've spent so many years learning
to put sounds and fingerings and notation together, and then with
this piece I would need to totally separate them again.
Matanya Ophee
>This would drive me insane, to be playing something as written and
>have it come out sounding totally different notes because of the
>altered tuning. I don't understand how people can compartmentalize
>the sounds and the fingerings.
Neither do I, but the fact remains that lutenists have been doing this
for centuries.You can take a piece in tablature and play it on a lute
in A or a lute in G. The fingering remains the same, but the sound is
different. Same thing with the terz guitar. Several years ago, at the
Tychy festival I had this guitar with my special strings on, tuned a
third higher. The strings are considerably thinner, but not all that
much and for all practical purposes, it looked and felt like a regular
guitar. So in one of those late night private gatherings, Stepan Rak
picked it up, not knowing what it was. He then launched into his
improvisational mode and played on for a couple of hours, all the time
sounding a third higher, and not noticing a thing. Then, as is usual,
he began to sing some of his gypsy romances. Then it hit him. His
voice couldn't go that high.
The idea of notation-cum-tablature is not new. During the 19th
century, particularly in the US, there was a fad of playing what was
known then as the Spanish Fandango, or Spanish Tatoo. The guitar was
retuned, normally to either an open C major tuning, E Major and
sometime G major, and the notation was written _as if_ the guitar was
tuned normally. IOW, there was no relation between the notes on the
paper, and the notes you heard. It's a bit strange, but not a big
deal, if you set your mind to it. Koyunbaba follows the same idea.
BTW, the best Koyunbaba I have heard, even much better than Domeniconi
himself, was by Yorgos Panetsos at the Mikulov festival. Yorgos is a
Greek guitarist living in Vienna and is the director of the Vienna
festival. I don't know if he recorded it, but on this one occasion,
playing _this_ piece, the one I have been saying all kinds of nasty
things about, this young man touched me. Deeply.
Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphée, Inc.,
1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
Columbus, OH, 43235-1226
Phone: 614-846-9517
Fax: 614-846-9794
Check out the Orphée Catalogue at:
http://www.orphee.com
Including the on-line guitar magazine titled: Guitar And Lute Issues
ja...@my-deja.com
ja...@my-deja.com wrote:
> I started listening to Carlo Domeniconi's Koyunbaba tracks from John
Thanks for everyone's posts here.
Now, would any of you people with the arrangement like to sell me their
copy? ;-)
Thomas F Brown
Matanya Ophee <m.o...@orphee.com> wrote:
>tomb...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Thomas F Brown) wrote:
>
>>This would drive me insane, to be playing something as written and
>>have it come out sounding totally different notes because of the
>>altered tuning. I don't understand how people can compartmentalize
>>the sounds and the fingerings.
>
>Neither do I, but the fact remains that lutenists have been doing this
>for centuries.You can take a piece in tablature and play it on a lute
>in A or a lute in G. The fingering remains the same, but the sound is
>different.
The difference here is that you're reading fingerings, not notes.
I mean, perhaps people who read tab a lot eventually come to
hear the fingerings as they read, but I don't have that association
in my mind since I don't read much tab. But when I see an A on
the staff, I hear an A in my mind.
Stephen G. Carl
http://www.gsp-guitar.com/mail/ref_cat/msolos.html