"Gruppen" and movement lengths
Joachim Pense
(Frisius, Stockhausen I, p 367 l.b.): "Schon die GRUPPEN FÜR DREI ORCHESTER
[...] waren bis dahin das längste ununterbrochene Musikstück überhaupt, mit
circa fünfundzwanzigeinhalb Minuten."
'Already GRUPPEN FÜR DREI ORCHESTER was up to then the longest uninterrupted
piece of music, lasting about twenty-five minutes.'
It is not clear to me what he compares GRUPPEN to. He cannot mean the whole
history of western classical music, as there are movements by Bruckner and
Mahler that are longer than that.
Did he just make this statement in relation to his own work?
Joachim
Paul Dirmeikis
> In an Interview with Frisius, Stockhausen says:
>
> [...] waren bis dahin das l�ngste ununterbrochene Musikst�ck �berhaupt, mit
> circa f�nfundzwanzigeinhalb Minuten."
> 'Already GRUPPEN F�R DREI ORCHESTER was up to then the longest uninterrupted
> piece of music, lasting about twenty-five minutes.'
>
> It is not clear to me what he compares GRUPPEN to. He cannot mean the whole
> history of western classical music, as there are movements by Bruckner and
> Mahler that are longer than that.
>
> Did he just make this statement in relation to his own work?
>
> Joachim
Hi,
This puzzled me also, and I remember I asked him about this
statement.
He answered that the movements by Mahler or Bruckner that I also
mentionned were precisely "movements", and not a single work, and as
being only specific parts of a work, they couldn't be considered as an
uninterrupted musical work like "Gruppen"...
I therefore mentionned the two symphonic poems by Scriabine, as well
as "Am�riques" by Varese, which also clock more or less around 25 mn,
but he stated that they were all shorter than "Gruppen", and as it was
quite inappropriate, and not making much sense to argue about 30
seconds longer or shorter, we switched to another subject...
bernardp
I assumed that initially Stockhausen was probably talking
specifically about his own music but he conceivably might also have be
comparing Gruppen with other orchestral work, especially when drawn
into the comparisons. ......Otherwise at the far extreme would be
Satie's Vexations from the 19th century, though not published before
1949, let alone performed with the implied 840 repeats on the assumed
piano, making a performance measured in hours rather than minutes.
i wouldn't be surprised if people can nominate plenty of self-
contained western "classical" compositions stretching longer than 25
minutes that predate Gruppen!
Mark Stratford
>I wouldn't be surprised if people can nominate plenty of self-
>contained western "classical" compositions stretching longer than 25
>minutes that predate Gruppen!
Oh dear - it would be like one of those interminable 'lists' which
were once popular here and next door in
rec.music.classical.recordings.