still contemporary after all these years
AnEarForARear
for those of the "repeated listenings" school of thought. 'tis a pity that
only academia cares about serialism, atonalism, and sundry other uglisms.
serialism=all tones shall be equal
communism=all people shall be equal
has there ever been an atonalist who was not an extreme left-winger? i suppose
atonalism has always been the refuge of the mediocre and flat-out untalented,
so there must have been a few ungifted moderates and conservatives, maybe even
a fascist or two (nah....) who were atonalists. can anyone name any?
John Brower
Why respond seriously to blatant idiocy?
John B.
~----------------------------------------------------------------------~
"You'll never make it. Give up now. Quit squirming. You idiot.
Who cares? Surrender. It won't work. Aha! Told you so."
-- Matt Groening, LIFE IN HELL (1982)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
J.B.L.
>only academia cares about serialism, atonalism, and sundry other uglisms.
Mad.
"When was the last scandal? I can't remember. Which must mean I have become
conventional." --- Iannis Xenakis
AnEyeForAThigh
>Date: 3/1/00 10:02 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <20000301220243...@ng-bg1.aol.com>
>
>> 'tis a pity that
>>only academia cares about serialism, atonalism, and sundry other uglisms.
>
>Mad.
>
>
AnEyeForAThigh
>Date: 3/1/00 7:53 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <89ke1g$hu2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
>
>In article <20000301184801...@ng-fj1.aol.com>,
> anearf...@aol.com (AnEarForARear) wrote:
>> schoenberg, atonality. audiences never warmed to it, did they? 'tis a
>pity
>> only academia cares about serialism, atonalism, and sundry other uglisms.
>> communism=all people shall be equal
>> has there ever been an atonalist who was not an extreme left-winger? i
>suppose
>> atonalism has always been the refuge of the mediocre and flat-out
>untalented,
>> so there must have been a few ungifted moderates and conservatives, maybe
>even
>> a fascist or two (nah....) who were atonalists. can anyone name any?
>
>Why respond seriously to blatant idiocy?
>
>John B.
>
>~----------------------------------------------------------------------~
> "You'll never make it. Give up now. Quit squirming. You idiot.
> Who cares? Surrender. It won't work. Aha! Told you so."
> -- Matt Groening, LIFE IN HELL (1982)
>
>
....speaking of blatant idiocy, the quote directly above......
Chris Milmerstadt
oxygen. Hurry, there might still be some time left!
I think your choice of newsgroups to which you posted this question was
quite ill-concieved.
All the best.
Chris Milmerstadt
http://members.tripod.com/Milmerstadt
http://www.mp3.com/milmerstadt
"AnEarForARear" <anearf...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000301184801...@ng-fj1.aol.com...
John Hood
Samuel Vriezen
wrote:
>schoenberg, atonality. audiences never warmed to it, did they? 'tis a pity
>for those of the "repeated listenings" school of thought. 'tis a pity that
>only academia cares about serialism, atonalism, and sundry other uglisms.
That's not true.
>serialism=all tones shall be equal
>communism=all people shall be equal
That's stupid.
>has there ever been an atonalist who was not an extreme left-winger?
Arnold Schoenberg?
>i suppose
>atonalism has always been the refuge of the mediocre and flat-out untalented,
No, that's this kind of thinking.
Schoenberg, Berg, Boulez were extremely talented by any standard.
Boulez' counterpoint exercises were used years later by his teacher as
examples for other students and decades later he was invited to
Fafnir's Grotto - I mean Bayreuth - by the Wagnerungen to conduct ring
cycles. Surely, _some_ talent is needed for that?
And Stockhausen has perfect pitch and perfect sense of tempo. He also
can sing along with middle voices in complex electronically
synthesized textures. Can you?
>so there must have been a few ungifted moderates and conservatives, maybe even
>a fascist or two (nah....) who were atonalists. can anyone name any?
I find the word 'atonalist' a rather useless one.
Samuel Vriezen
wrote:
>In article <20000301184801...@ng-fj1.aol.com>,
> anearf...@aol.com (AnEarForARear) wrote:
>> schoenberg, atonality. audiences never warmed to it, did they? 'tis a pity
>> for those of the "repeated listenings" school of thought. 'tis a pity that
>> only academia cares about serialism, atonalism, and sundry other uglisms.
>> serialism=all tones shall be equal
>> communism=all people shall be equal
>> has there ever been an atonalist who was not an extreme left-winger? i suppose
>> atonalism has always been the refuge of the mediocre and flat-out untalented,
>> so there must have been a few ungifted moderates and conservatives, maybe even
>> a fascist or two (nah....) who were atonalists. can anyone name any?
>
>Why respond seriously to blatant idiocy?
>
>John B.
Can't you appreciate the fragrance of flamewar?
This guy is just trying to pick a fight, that's all.
And of course, it's interesting to come up with a list of conservative
composers of, let's say, pantonal music.
AristocraticBase
>Date: 3/2/00 8:39 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <38be6e3...@news.xs4all.nl>
>
>>only academia cares about serialism, atonalism, and sundry other uglisms.
>
>That's not true.
>
You're right. The non-academic composers who write such rubbish care too. I
suppose some deaf people may be tricked into liking it.....
>>serialism=all tones shall be equal
>>communism=all people shall be equal
>
>That's stupid.
Actually, it's not. It's an interesting and timely comparison. Schoenberg was
pro-communist.
>>has there ever been an atonalist who was not an extreme left-winger?
>
>Arnold Schoenberg?
>
nope. read above.
>Schoenberg, Berg, Boulez were extremely talented by any standard.
Scheonberg couldn't make it with his tonal works beside the likes of Mahler and
Strauss. His tonal works are weak comparatively, and he knew it. Being a
knowledgable theorist and having alot of compositional technique does not make
one even necessarily talented.
Berg was more talented, I'll concede that. Too bad he studied with Schoenberg.
Thank goodness Schoenberg discouraged Gershwin from studying with him!
I've heard and watched the Boulez ring, and it's a prime example of mediocre
conducting, regardless of the hype about his "chamber" approach. It's flat,
face it. It has its moments, thanks to the singing and the musicians, who
threatened to quit because of Boulez's conducting approach (they were right).
>Boulez' counterpoint exercises were used years later by his teacher as
>examples for other students
Again, learned technique does not necessarily mean talent and certainly not
genius.
>Surely, _some_ talent is needed for that?
>
Yes, some talent. But that is all. Read above.
>And Stockhausen has perfect pitch and perfect sense of tempo.
Lots of untalented people have perfect pitch. I know both musical and
hopelessly unmusical people with it. Perfect sense of tempo (or rhythm) is
inherent in all blacks I hear, but I do not think they are all talented or
geniuses.
>He also
>can sing along with middle voices in complex electronically
>synthesized textures
I know a pianist who can do that, but he is mediocrity who teaches in a very
small university and thank god does not even try to compose.
>Can you?
Haven't tried. But I'll work on it. Although I do not like electronic sounds
usually (there are rare exceptions, and even those I tire of quickly).
>I find the word 'atonalist' a rather useless one.
>
atonalist=one who either practices atonality or enjoys, or pretends to enjoy,
it.
Samuel Vriezen
(AristocraticBase) wrote:
>>>only academia cares about serialism, atonalism, and sundry other uglisms.
>>
>>That's not true.
>>
>
>You're right. The non-academic composers who write such rubbish care too. I
>suppose some deaf people may be tricked into liking it.....
Yawn. You were saying?
>>>serialism=all tones shall be equal
>>>communism=all people shall be equal
>>
>>That's stupid.
>
>Actually, it's not. It's an interesting and timely comparison. Schoenberg was
>pro-communist.
Oh! I see.
>>>has there ever been an atonalist who was not an extreme left-winger?
>>
>>Arnold Schoenberg?
>>
>
>nope. read above.
Guess I got that wrong then. Sorry to have bothered you.
>>Boulez' counterpoint exercises were used years later by his teacher as
>>examples for other students
>
>Again, learned technique does not necessarily mean talent and certainly not
>genius.
Well, in that case I'll call him talented on account of having written
masterpieces. Take that, you troll!
David Cleary
: schoenberg, atonality. [snip]
Same troll as in rec.music.compose. How about putting your real name with all
this drivel? It would be nice if you'd have the guts to stand behind what you
post.
Dave
JHenry1975
>>>serialism=all tones shall be equal
>>>communism=all people shall be equal
>>
>>That's stupid.
>
>Actually, it's not. It's an interesting and timely comparison. Schoenberg
>was
>pro-communist.
He sure as hell was *not*! And Milton Babbitt, the most rigid of serialists
(and the father of total serialism), is *rabidly* anti-communist.
In any event, most of the neoclassical composers were lefties. Most composers
in *general* are lefties.
>>Schoenberg, Berg, Boulez were extremely talented by any standard.
>
>Scheonberg couldn't make it with his tonal works beside the likes of Mahler
>and
>Strauss. His tonal works are weak comparatively, and he knew it.
Ha! You funny! The 1st Chamber Symphony "weak"? "Gurrelieder" "weak"?
"Verklaerte Nacht" "weak"? Who's *really* been breathing the air of other
planets?
>Berg was more talented, I'll concede that.
That token concession doesn't make you look any more "objective" in your
analysis.
>Lots of untalented people have perfect pitch. I know both musical and
>hopelessly unmusical people with it. Perfect sense of tempo (or rhythm) is
>inherent in all blacks I hear, but I do not think they are all talented or
>geniuses.
Ah, now I see where you're coming from . . . Good day to you, sir.
Joseph Henry
John Brower
David Cleary <dcl...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote:
> Same troll as in rec.music.compose. How about putting your real name
with all
> this drivel? It would be nice if you'd have the guts to stand behind
what you
> post.
There must be another special at aol.com to attract these cretins.
John B.
~----------------------------------------------------------------------~
"You'll never make it. Give up now. Quit squirming. You idiot.
Who cares? Surrender. It won't work. Aha! Told you so."
-- Matt Groening, LIFE IN HELL (1982)
HAPPYHAPPYTROLL
>Date: 3/2/00 1:58 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <20000302135856...@ng-cl1.aol.com>
>>Lots of untalented people have perfect pitch. I know both musical and
>>hopelessly unmusical people with it. Perfect sense of tempo (or rhythm) is
>>inherent in all blacks I hear, but I do not think they are all talented or
>>geniuses.
>
>Ah, now I see where you're coming from . . . Good day to you, sir.
>
>Joseph Henry
>
>
>
>
>
that one scared you away, you little rodent. can't take the heat of a little
political incorrectness, can you, worm? keep sucking up to your masters,
slave, for the crumb or two they drop for you to scurry to and nibble upon.
Samuel Vriezen
wrote:
>AnEarForARear <anearf...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>: schoenberg, atonality. [snip]
>
>Same troll as in rec.music.compose. How about putting your real name with all
>this drivel? It would be nice if you'd have the guts to stand behind what you
>post.
It's perfectly clear he does not stand behind what he posts. He's
really just into it for the hell of it.
OTOH, may I advise picking a fight with our official pet troll? He's
much more fun. Children free of charge.
RMC Official Pet Troll
wrote:
I'm sorry, sir, but you are in fact a very sad troll.
Very sad indeed.
I have just composed a lamento for the fact of your sadness. It goes
somewhat like this:
Ploink, plonk, ploink, screech, plonk. Pffffwrrrsttthhd. Plonk.
HAPPYHAPPYTROLL
>Date: 3/2/00 12:14 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <89m7h1$ad1$2...@news.fas.harvard.edu>
>
>AnEarForARear <anearf...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>: schoenberg, atonality. [snip]
>
>Same troll as in rec.music.compose. How about putting your real name with all
>this drivel? It would be nice if you'd have the guts to stand behind what you
>post.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
why do you want to know my name? you want my address and phone number too?
are you a serial killer? or just a serial composer? which is worse, anyway?
Michael Subotin
>
> AnEarForARear <anearf...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> : schoenberg, atonality. [snip]
>
> Same troll as in rec.music.compose.
Tell you more, my dejavu was going nuts for a moment until it hit me:
I think that's the one who took the time to 'review' old Arnie all over
Amazon.com! Makes you wonder if there's a Schoenberg dartboard in his
living room and a Schoenberg voodoo doll under his pillow.
Michael
> How about putting your real name with all
> this drivel? It would be nice if you'd have the guts to stand behind what you
> post.
--
i...@vms.cis.pitt{DOT}edu Replace {DOT} with a dot
Jaakko Mantyjarvi
Where did you get the material for the development section
('Pffffwrrrsttthhd')? I cannot see it being derived from the main subject
('Ploink') or the second subject ('plonk'). I like the way you cast the second
subject as a variation on the first, though.
Regards,
Jaakko Mantyjarvi
Helsinki, Finland
"Symphony orchestra organizes sit-down strike. Cage's estate sues for plagiarism."
Heterophobia
>Date: 3/2/00 3:36 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <38BED0...@shalt.not.spam>
>
>David Cleary wrote:
>>
>> AnEarForARear <anearf...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> : schoenberg, atonality. [snip]
>>
>> Same troll as in rec.music.compose.
>
>Tell you more, my dejavu was going nuts for a moment until it hit me:
>I think that's the one who took the time to 'review' old Arnie all over
>Amazon.com! Makes you wonder if there's a Schoenberg dartboard in his
>living room and a Schoenberg voodoo doll under his pillow.
not a bad idea.
RMC Official Pet Troll
wrote:
>> I have just composed a lamento for the fact of your sadness. It goes
>> somewhat like this:
>>
>> Ploink, plonk, ploink, screech, plonk. Pffffwrrrsttthhd. Plonk.
>
>Where did you get the material for the development section
>('Pffffwrrrsttthhd')? I cannot see it being derived from the main subject
>('Ploink') or the second subject ('plonk'). I like the way you cast the second
>subject as a variation on the first, though.
Oh, you boring academic composer! Academic composers should be hanged!
I say, and unacademic ones as well, unless they can prove to be
sincere! Which has not been possible since the Trent Council!
canticle
it was nearly sold out. The audience reaction was very favorable.
pity
> for those of the "repeated listenings" school of thought. 'tis a pity
that
> communism=all people shall be equal
Samuel Vriezen
<franci...@email.msn.com> wrote:
>I don't know. Last year I saw Boulez do "Moses und Aron" with the CSO and
>it was nearly sold out. The audience reaction was very favorable.
Perhaps you were mistaken? The cheering actually has to be understood
as primal reaction to artistic confusion? The silence and attentive
listening as a hours-long moment of total disbelief? Everybody in the
audience has to have their ears fixed?
You _do_ realize the awful quality of that opera has been proven by
God, do you? It's all in the Book of Zefanya. You just have to know
how to decode it.
David Cleary
: On 01 Mar 2000 23:48:01 GMT, anearf...@aol.com (AnEarForARear)
: wrote:
:>has there ever been an atonalist who was not an extreme left-winger?
: Arnold Schoenberg?
I've heard from what appear to be good sources that Charles Wuorinen is
extremely right-wing politically. Can't vouch for it officially, though.
Dave
Samuel Vriezen
wrote:
>I've heard from what appear to be good sources that Charles Wuorinen is
>extremely right-wing politically. Can't vouch for it officially, though.
Oooooo!
Drew Krause
pipo
Dr.Matt
Schoenberg was a politically low-key monarchist who became politically
even lower-key as an immigrant. Cf his testimony before Congress in
Style and Idea.
--
My CD "Kabala": http://www-personal.umich.edu/~fields/cd.html
Matt Fields DMA http://listen.to/mattaj TwelveToneToyBox http://start.at/tttb
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