**Gruppen live from Darmstadt ** 26/11/2011 - please would anybody be able to record it?

[Mark Stratford]

(I think it's just a one-off stream, rather than being available for a
while, as per BBC)


http://www.hr-online.de/website/rubriken/kultur/index.jsp?rubrik=2021

the performance details are here

http://www.cresc-biennale.de/de/programm/samstag


19 Uhr Böllenfalltor-halle Darmstadt
Einführung 18.15 Uhr
Foyer Gruppen3
hr-Sinfonieorchester • Ensemble Modern • Saar Berger, Horn
Matthias Pintscher, Lucas Vis, Paul Fitzsimon, Leitung

Iannis Xenakis »Terretektorh« für Orchester (1966)
Anthony Cheung »Fog Mobiles« für Solo-Horn und Orchester (2010) UA
Thierry de Mey »Musique de tables« für drei Perkussionisten (1987)
Karlheinz Stockhausen »Gruppen für 3 Orchester« (1957)


thanks Mark

[Joachim Pense]

Am 24.11.2011 13:10, schrieb Mark Stratford:
> (I think it's just a one-off stream, rather than being available for a
> while, as per BBC)
>
>
> http://www.hr-online.de/website/rubriken/kultur/index.jsp?rubrik=2021
>
> the performance details are here
>
> http://www.cresc-biennale.de/de/programm/samstag
>

It will be broadcasted as a radio stream later (by the hr). The hr
offers recorder software for free download, so you might even be able to
record it yourself.

Of course the spatial experience will be reduced by any recording.

Joachim

[Joachim Pense]

Am 24.11.2011 13:10, schrieb Mark Stratford:

The performance was given in a gymnasium; the acoustics of the hall was
quite good, no reverb, and you could hear the unamplified guitar from
the other end of the room. (Strange that it was an unamplified classical
guitar, I had expected an electric guitar in Gruppen). The price was
really low, you paid 20 euros for the event, and if you bought tickets
for three events of the cresc-festival, it went down to ten (and even
less per concert for a complete festival pass). I had bought the
three-piece, tomorrow (or now it is already today) the other two events
will happen.

Unfortunately, most of the audience had to sit on the tribune seats on
one side of the room, only a selection was allowed down between the
musicians. The process by which you become one of the selected few was
not clear to me - you had to be at the right place at the right time, or
know the right people. Well, I sat on the tribune, but that turned out
to be ok.

TerreTekorh by Xenakis expects the audience to sit between the
musicians, but the spactial sound movements were recognizable from the
outside. Anyway, it featured the obvious swarm music typical for
Xenakis, and confirmed my prejudices against his music.

Fog Music was well placed after Xenakis; we heard expressive melodies by
the french horn and the orchestra, sheets of sounds, reminiscent of
late-nineteenth-century music (with a slightly more modern musical
language, but still it would work as film music).

Musique de Tables was catchy, and the audience (myself included) loved
it. Three percussionists sitting at desks, with wooden boards and their
scores lying on the desks (the boards resembled enlarged laptop
computers); the three were projected on a large screen just above/behind
them. They did finger-drumming on the boards, rhythmically polyphonic
structures that were simple enough to have the audience recognize the
existence of a concept, but complicated enough to have them not be able
to put the finger on what exactly the concept was. Optically very
strong, with the movements of the percussionists (including turning the
score pages) contributing to the gesamtkunstwerk. The piece will lose a
lot when listened audio-only. (I hear it is available on YouTube).

Gruppen - well, what could I say about this classic? I haven't
experienced it live before; the fact that I sat "outside" was not so
bad: the three orchestras could be clearly separated acoustically, and
that is the main function of the orchestra separation (not so much the
experience of having the music come from all sides). Fortunately the
times are long gone when the 1950s' idea of serial music was considered
a conceptual error and the works mere results of this error, hence
disposable. If written by a real musician (like Stockhausen), they just
work musically.

Joachim

[Mark Stratford]

Thanks for your report - that was certainly unusual there being an
unamplified classical guitar.
Did anybody manage to record the broadcast?

mark

[Joachim Pense]

Am 27.11.2011 18:47, schrieb Mark Stratford:

> Did anybody manage to record the broadcast?

I certainly didn't - I don't have the equipment to do that. But there's
good news:

arte.tv recorded a video of it:
<http://liveweb.arte.tv/de/video/_GRUPPEN3_/>. The page was used for the
live transmission, but they say the recording will be available on this
page soon.

The radio transmission will be on April 3rd, 2010, 20:05 CET.

To record that transmission, download the hr-radiorecorder
<http://www.hr-online.de/website/radio/hr2/index.jsp?rubrik=59635&key=standard_document_39603713&xtmc=radiorecorder&xtcr=2>.

Joachim

[Mark Stratford]

>>The radio transmission will be on April 3rd, 2010, 20:05

Thanks, but do you mean perhaps Dec 2011 (or something) ...?

[Joachim Pense]

Am 28.11.2011 09:10, schrieb Mark Stratford:
>
>>> The radio transmission will be on April 3rd, 2010, 20:05
>
> Thanks, but do you mean perhaps Dec 2011 (or something) ...?

It's 2012, but unfortunately, April is correct, so there are still some
months to go. I expect the video-on-demand to be available earlier.

The Radio schedule is:

3rd Jan: Opening concert (Xenakis, Zuraj, Qian, Carter)
21st Feb: Un/Limits - Open Space (Jaksjö, Fahlström, Xenakis, Lindberg)
6th Mar: Espaces Musicaux (Levinas, Asperghis, Xenakis, Varese, Jarell)
3rd Apr: Gruppen^3 (Xenakis, Cheung, De Mey, Stockhausen)
17th Apr: Raumwelten (Xenakis, Pintscher, Berio)
12th Jun: Chambers (Xenakis, Ligeti, Scelsi)
19 Jun: Final concert (Beyer, Hermann, Horvath, Keller, Motschmann,
Roloff)

Always 2012, Always 20:05 CET.

Details on the concerts are available via <www.cresc-biennale.de>

Joachim

[Mark Stratford]

Meanwhile – here’s a clip, frustratingly short, of Sternklang in
Stuttgart 2010
(some by day, some by night)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDxpD_13X8c

mark

[Jerry Kohl]

On Nov 26, 3:40 pm, Joachim Pense <s...@pense-mainz.eu> wrote:
> Am 24.11.2011 13:10, schrieb Mark Stratford:
>
>
>
>
>
> > (I think it's just a one-off stream, rather than being available for a
> > while, as per BBC)
>
> >http://www.hr-online.de/website/rubriken/kultur/index.jsp?rubrik=2021
>
> > the performance details are here
>
> >http://www.cresc-biennale.de/de/programm/samstag
>
> > 19 Uhr Böllenfalltor-halle Darmstadt
> > Einführung 18.15 Uhr
> > Foyer      Gruppen3
> > hr-Sinfonieorchester • Ensemble Modern • Saar Berger, Horn
> > Matthias Pintscher, Lucas Vis, Paul Fitzsimon, Leitung
>
> > Iannis Xenakis »Terretektorh« für Orchester (1966)
> > Anthony Cheung »Fog Mobiles« für Solo-Horn und Orchester (2010) UA
> > Thierry de Mey »Musique de tables« für drei Perkussionisten (1987)
> > Karlheinz Stockhausen »Gruppen für 3 Orchester« (1957)
>
> The performance was given in a gymnasium; the acoustics of the hall was
> quite good, no reverb, and you could hear the unamplified guitar from
> the other end of the room. (Strange that it was an unamplified classical
> guitar, I had expected an electric guitar in Gruppen).

That must have made the end of the guitar cadenza particularly tricky,
since there is a long crescendo there over two long chords (an even
more spectacular crescendo, ending in a fortissimo after two long bars
occurs a little earlier, in group 55). For that matter, the beginning
of that cadenza must have been a little difficult to hear, since it
sets off amid fortissimo strings and percussion in the other two
orchestras. Who was the conductor, Claudio Abbado? In his notorious DG
recording, Abbado has the guitarist perform the cadenza with his
amplifier *off*. Now, an acoustic guitar without amplification is one
thing, but an *electric* guitar without amplification sounds like
rubber bands stretched over a cigar box. Was anybody paying any
attention to the dynamics at all? How many other instruments were
substituted or just left out (e.g., the African slit drums, pitched
tomtoms and tuned cowbells, 5-octave marimbaphone)?

--
Jerry Kohl <jerom...@comcast.net>
"Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."

[Joachim Pense]

Am 29.11.2011 00:34, schrieb Jerry Kohl:

> substituted or just left out (e.g., the African slit drums, pitched
> tomtoms and tuned cowbells, 5-octave marimbaphone)?
>

I didn't pay specific attention, but from my memory I recall they were
all there, or probably so.

Joachim

[Jerry Kohl]

With Pintscher and Vis on the podium (I am unfamiliar with Fitzsimon)
I would expect a more responsible attitude than Abbado, who replaced
the (pitched) African slit drums with unpitched woodblocks (sounding
some three octaves higher than the log drums), and the tuned tomtoms
with untuned low drums plus a pair of bongos. Still, the acoustic
guitar is an astonishing liberty, suggesting that, as in Abbado's
case, dynamics may have been disregarded entirely.

--
Jerry Kohl

[Joachim Pense]

It was a "classical guitar"; but it was on the other end of the hall. So
there _might_ have been a contact mike and amp that I just didn't spot.
However, I don't really believe that, and even that way it would have
been the wrong instrument. Maybe we should wait until arte releases the
video on demand.

Joachim

[Joachim Pense]

Am 27.11.2011 00:40, schrieb Joachim Pense:

>
> TerreTekorh by Xenakis expects the audience to sit between the
> musicians, but the spactial sound movements were recognizable from the
> outside. Anyway, it featured the obvious swarm music typical for
> Xenakis, and confirmed my prejudices against his music.

BTW, on the next day, the JACK Quartet played Tethora by Xenakis (1990),
with no swarms at all; it was the first Xenakis piece I heard that I
really liked. (And so did the audience)

Joachim

[Cleanhead]

The performance is available in very good quality on youtube!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqvlrphkGAU

[Mark Stratford]

On Nov 30, 7:50 am, Cleanhead <cleank...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> The performance is available in very good quality on youtube!
>

>THANKS !!

[Cleanhead]

On 30 Nov., 09:28, Mark Stratford <mark_stratfor...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

> >THANKS !!

The entire concert:

Iannis Xenakis - „Terretektorh“
Anthony Cheung: »Fog Mobiles«

Thierry de Mey: »Musique de tables«

Karl-Heinz Stockhausen: „Gruppen für 3 Orchester“

can be viewed here:

http://liveweb.arte.tv/de/video/_GRUPPEN3_/

[Mark Stratford]

Did you get to the Carter Symphony of 3 Orchestras? Personally, I've
always found Carter a bit hit & miss, but S3O is surely one of his
greatest pieces.

PS: He'll be 103 in a few days time won't he ?

Mark

[Joachim Pense]

I did not see much more in the YouTube version than what I saw live.
Yes, a classical guitar, but I am still not sure if it was amped. Near
the guitar player, there is a small, monitor type loudspeaker, but I
couldn't see if that was connected to the guitar.

Joachim

[Mark Stratford]

there's a fragment of the recent Lisbon Momente on youtube. Hopefully
more will become available:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOJx75iYy6Q


mark