What's your take on Finis Dake, The Oneness Pentecostal movment, and Christian Nudism?
Brigitte Boisselier
as of late. At times there seems to be subtle references which might
be considered to hint and study notes in the Dake Annotated Study
Bible.
Is there a connection with Social Nudism and the "Oneness" United
Pentecostal movement?
------------------------------------------
Brigitte Boisselier
Dake-Bonoism Extrardinarius
------------------------------------------
Gross, Warren
And The UPCI does not endorse any of this foolishness!
We have standards of seperation(with roots in the bible).
Adam, and Eve used a mere leaf to cover themselves,
but that was not enough in God's eye's so he killed an animal, and made
clothes for them.
Any nudism goes right against God, and in return is not christian at all!
In Jesus' Name!
-Warren Gross
!This message was sent solely for the recipient from:
Mr. Warren Gross
warren...@truthaboutchrist.org
http://www.truthaboutchrist.org
Have you read, & obeyed the book of acts starting with chapter 2, and verse
38?
Have you repented, and been baptized in the NAME of JESUS CHRIST for the
remission of sins, and received the GIFT of the Holy Ghost (With the
evidence of speaking in other tongues, as the Spirit gave the utterance)?
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"Brigitte Boisselier" <brigboi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:7a0c972.03012...@posting.google.com...
Pastor Steve Winter
wrote:
>Is there a connection with Social Nudism and the "Oneness" United
>Pentecostal movement?
They have their problems and serious sins and errors, but that is
NOT one of them.
Pastor Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.pentecostal.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
Jericho
"Gross, Warren" <warren...@truthaboutchrist.org> wrote in message
news:v2v5b37...@corp.supernews.com...
> Any 'Christian' nudism, is truly not christian, but of the devil.
>
> And The UPCI does not endorse any of this foolishness!
> We have standards of seperation(with roots in the bible).
> Adam, and Eve used a mere leaf to cover themselves,
> but that was not enough in God's eye's so he killed an animal, and made
> clothes for them.
>
> Any nudism goes right against God, and in return is not christian at all!
> In Jesus' Name!
> -Warren Gross
>
Many tribes folk have women with there boobs hanging out............and
children running around naked.........and 'privates' are not covered all
that well.........and I wouldn't think that on becoming christian their
first order of business is to : get the women to wear bras and blouses, men
should wear ties and long pants, and children should be wearing sunscreen
and undies. that just seems way to odd for a God to carrying on that way.
But of course some sort of cover seems to be normal.
As to 'christian nudism'.........well.........I wonder if they will start
having 'christian strippers' also.
Cheef
news:7a0c972.03012...@posting.google.com:
> I have been coming across a number of references to "Christian Nudism"
> as of late. At times there seems to be subtle references which might
> be considered to hint and study notes in the Dake Annotated Study
> Bible.
>
> Is there a connection with Social Nudism and the "Oneness" United
> Pentecostal movement?
None that I have heard of.
That said, there have been some Pentecostal-related movements which have
involved nudity. There was one particular one, part of the original
movement labelled the "holy rollers" around the turn of the 19th century in
the 20th century, where removing ones clothes and running around nude was
considered an ecstatic sign of the presence of the Holy Spirit - much like
"Holy Laughter" is by many today.
--
visit CHEEF.COM - Your CHEEF source for nudist info
Subscribe now to NUDIST NEWS! http://cheef.com/lists
Cheef
> Any 'Christian' nudism, is truly not christian, but of the devil.
You mean the one who created the earth and placed people on it to live
"naked and not ashamed"? As I recall the scripture, it was not the
devil who did that.
> Adam, and Eve used a mere leaf to cover themselves,
> but that was not enough in God's eye's so he killed an animal, and
> made clothes for them.
You might want to go back and read your Bible again. It says God used
animal skin, but it doesn't say he killed an animal to get it. He may
or may not have, but it never says he did. In the same way, it never
says he gave them clothes to show people were never to be socially nude
with each other. To interpret in such a way is like saying fasting is
of the devil because God provided his people with manna.
> Any nudism goes right against God, and in return is not christian at
> all!
Please pray about this, and make sure you are not being guilty of adding
to scripture, and not giving credit to Satan for what is really the work
of God.
> In Jesus' Name!
Amen.
--
visit CHEEF.COM - Your CHEEF source for nudist info
Get NUDIST NEWS! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nudist-news-group
Brigitte Boisselier
> brigboi...@aol.com (Brigitte Boisselier) wrote in
> news:7a0c972.03012...@posting.google.com:
>
> > I have been coming across a number of references to "Christian Nudism"
> > as of late. At times there seems to be subtle references which might
> > be considered to hint and study notes in the Dake Annotated Study
> > Bible.
> >
> > Is there a connection with Social Nudism and the "Oneness" United
> > Pentecostal movement?
>
> None that I have heard of.
>
> That said, there have been some Pentecostal-related movements which have
> involved nudity. There was one particular one, part of the original
> movement labelled the "holy rollers" around the turn of the 19th century in
> the 20th century, where removing ones clothes and running around nude was
> considered an ecstatic sign of the presence of the Holy Spirit - much like
> "Holy Laughter" is by many today.
Do you know any prominent Evangelical leaders or CCM musicians that
embrace social nudism?
John W
>brigboi...@aol.com (Brigitte Boisselier) wrote in
>news:7a0c972.03012...@posting.google.com:
>
>> I have been coming across a number of references to "Christian Nudism"
>> as of late. At times there seems to be subtle references which might
>> be considered to hint and study notes in the Dake Annotated Study
>> Bible.
>>
>> Is there a connection with Social Nudism and the "Oneness" United
>> Pentecostal movement?
>
>None that I have heard of.
>
>That said, there have been some Pentecostal-related movements which have
>involved nudity. There was one particular one, part of the original
>movement labelled the "holy rollers" around the turn of the 19th century in
>the 20th century, where removing ones clothes and running around nude was
>considered an ecstatic sign of the presence of the Holy Spirit - much like
>"Holy Laughter" is by many today.
I had forgotten! When I first moved to Seattle, there was a church in
a nearby city, a pentecostal church in which the pastor insisted that
the members SWAP mates AT church. There was sex in the sanctuary, sex
in the parking lot, and sex on the front lawn of the church, all
"Christians" swapping mates.
Pastor Barnett of a church which I believe was/is in Burien,
Washington.
In Christ,
John Weatherly
---------------------
"You don't break God's laws; they break you!"
Dr. Charlie Shedd
----------------------------
"Don't run to finish the race; run to win."
the apostle Paul
Cheef
> Do you know any prominent Evangelical leaders or CCM musicians that
> embrace social nudism?
As a matter of fact, yes.
I won't break their confidentiality, but they include:
1) an officer (now former officer) of the National Association of
Evangelicals
2) a denominational executive with one of the largest Evangelical
denominations
3) one of the most well-known, respected, & beloved musicians in CCM
If you define "prominent" as "well known in the media", then probably
only the third one applies. If you define "prominent" as "having a
significant role", then all three apply.
Jeff Edwards
"Gross, Warren" <warren...@truthaboutchrist.org> wrote in message
news:v2v5b37...@corp.supernews.com...
> Any 'Christian' nudism, is truly not christian, but of the devil.
Wow. Well, I guess I had better get started. If I'm to rid myself of "any"
nudism, I guess I'll need gloves, veils, hair nets, scarves....maybe
leggings...what else...
Jeff Edwards
paranoi...@sbcglobal.net
Raymond
"Brigitte Boisselier" <brigboi...@aol.com> wrote in message news:7a0c972.03012...@posting.google.com...
> as of late. At times there seems to be subtle references which might
> be considered to hint and study notes in the Dake Annotated Study
> Bible.
>
> Is there a connection with Social Nudism and the "Oneness" United
> Pentecostal movement?
Yes the Oneness United Pentecostal Church movement, are against it, and will preach you in to Hell fire,and everlasting
damnation for even thinking about such sinful things. Why do you pick on the Oneness, Dake Annotted Bible is
TRINITARIAN!
Peter T. Chattaway
: brigboi...@aol.com (Brigitte Boisselier) wrote:
: > Do you know any prominent Evangelical leaders or CCM musicians that
: > embrace social nudism?
:
: As a matter of fact, yes.
: I won't break their confidentiality, but they include . . .
So this would be in addition to the names you've already got listed on
your web site?
http://cheef.com/christian/known.html
--- Peter T. Chattaway --------------------------- pe...@chattaway.com ---
If true love never did exist how could we know its name? -- Sam Phillips
Happiness happens but I want joy. -- Marjorie Cardwell
Cheef
news:Pine.GSO.4.21.03012...@inch.interchange.ubc.ca:
> So this would be in addition to the names you've already got listed on
> your web site?
>
> http://cheef.com/christian/known.html
Yes, in addition to them.
I didn't include the people listed on the website (Billy Graham, C.S.
Lewis, & Amy Grant), because I don't think they would consider
themselves nudists. Graham & Lewis both participated in single-sex
social nudity, and Grant's nude beach days were (to the best of my
knowledge) limited to a brief period in the mid-1980s.
Raymond
> news:7a0c972.03012...@posting.google.com:
>
> > I have been coming across a number of references to "Christian Nudism"
> > as of late. At times there seems to be subtle references which might
> > be considered to hint and study notes in the Dake Annotated Study
> > Bible.
> >
> > Is there a connection with Social Nudism and the "Oneness" United
> > Pentecostal movement?
>
> None that I have heard of.
>
> That said, there have been some Pentecostal-related movements which have
> involved nudity. There was one particular one, part of the original
> movement labelled the "holy rollers" around the turn of the 19th century in
> the 20th century, where removing ones clothes and running around nude was
> considered an ecstatic sign of the presence of the Holy Spirit - much like
> "Holy Laughter" is by many today.
Where is that historical piece of knowledge come from, to you have a reference to such a document, or is this just more
yelling to the wind.
David Bruce Murray
> 3) one of the most well-known, respected, & beloved musicians in CCM
If you're talking about Amy Grant sunbathing topless with a female friend on
a private beach (and as far as we know from the interview some dozen years
ago, it only happened one time), I think you're really stretching the
original question about whether or not she "embraces" social nudism . . .
. . . but maybe you meant someone else. (Vestal Goodman or Bill Gaither?
Ugh!)
--
David Bruce Murray / dmur...@NOSPAMrfci.net
---Making hay while the sun shines---
David Bruce Murray
> I didn't include the people listed on the website (Billy Graham, C.S.
> Lewis, & Amy Grant), because I don't think they would consider
> themselves nudists. Graham & Lewis both participated in single-sex
> social nudity, and Grant's nude beach days were (to the best of my
> knowledge) limited to a brief period in the mid-1980s.
OK. Never mind the other message then . . . so maybe it is Vestal after all.
:o)
Is showering in a locker room in high school considered "social nudity?" I
guess it is, but when I hear the term, I think more of people sitting around
watching a movie together which, I'm sorry, just comes across as nasty to
me.
David Bruce Murray
"Jeff Edwards" <paranoi...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:pQbY9.635$m55.23...@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
I always shower naked . . . do you think the devil likes that? Most of the
time, I even rub soap on myself.
Jeff Edwards
"David Bruce Murray" <dmur...@NOSPAM.rfci.net> wrote in message
news:4dicnVlcdfP...@rfci.net...
> I always shower naked . . . do you think the devil likes that? Most of the
> time, I even rub soap on myself.
I think it depends on the nature of the rubbing and whether or not the soap
comes from a Christian store. Just make sure not to make it worse by
listening to the radio while showering - the evil beat could double the
sinfulness.
Oh, and always avoid mirrors.
-Jeff
Cheef
> Is showering in a locker room in high school considered "social
> nudity?"
It is. However, single-gender social nudity has enjoyed a long period
of acceptance in Western society, so it is generally not considered
"nudism".
> I guess it is, but when I hear the term, I think more of
> people sitting around watching a movie together which, I'm sorry, just
> comes across as nasty to me.
there's no accounting for taste. :)
Cheef
>> 3) one of the most well-known, respected, & beloved musicians in CCM
>
> If you're talking about Amy Grant sunbathing topless with a female
> friend on a private beach (and as far as we know from the interview
> some dozen years ago, it only happened one time), I think you're
> really stretching the original question about whether or not she
> "embraces" social nudism . . .
>
> . . . but maybe you meant someone else. (Vestal Goodman or Bill
> Gaither? Ugh!)
I did, indeed, mean someone else.
Cheef
news:b0ouje$hf...@rain.i-cable.com:
>> have involved nudity. There was one particular one, part of the
>> original movement labelled the "holy rollers" around the turn of the
>> 19th century in the 20th century, where removing ones clothes and
>> running around nude was considered an ecstatic sign of the presence
>> of the Holy Spirit - much like "Holy Laughter" is by many today.
>
> Where is that historical piece of knowledge come from, to you have a
> reference to such a document, or is this just more yelling to the
> wind.
It came from the "nudism" entry in "The Dictionary of ISMs".
Jay
>Lewis, & Amy Grant), because I don't think they would consider
>themselves nudists. Graham & Lewis both participated in single-sex
>social nudity, and Grant's nude beach days were (to the best of my
>knowledge) limited to a brief period in the mid-1980s.
Isn't listing them on your site a little deceptive, especially in light of your
above statement?
Jay
Make me a wish, mind over matter
________________________________________
www.underheaven.com
Brigitte Boisselier
> > > embrace social nudism?
> >
> > As a matter of fact, yes.
> >
> > I won't break their confidentiality, but they include:
> > 1) an officer (now former officer) of the National Association of
> > Evangelicals
> > 2) a denominational executive with one of the largest Evangelical
> > denominations
> > 3) one of the most well-known, respected, & beloved musicians in CCM
>
>
> ;-)
>
> jason
He said he was referring to someone other than Amy Grant. His
assertion is that there are a number of prominent evangelical leaders
that are involved in social nudism that prefer to keep it a secret.
He's respecting their confidentiality.
In other words CARMAN and TONY CAMPOLO asked Cheef to keep his mouth
shut.
Jack Curl
Jeff Edwards wrote:
[snippeth]
>
> Oh, and always avoid mirrors.
>
> -Jeff
>
>
I always try to avoid mirrors. It's sinful for me to put the mirrors
through that.
Brigitte Boisselier
> "Brigitte Boisselier" <brigboi...@aol.com> wrote in message news:7a0c972.03012...@posting.google.com...
> > I have been coming across a number of references to "Christian Nudism"
> > as of late. At times there seems to be subtle references which might
> > be considered to hint and study notes in the Dake Annotated Study
> > Bible.
> >
> > Is there a connection with Social Nudism and the "Oneness" United
> > Pentecostal movement?
>
> Yes the Oneness United Pentecostal Church movement, are against it, and will preach you in to Hell fire,and everlasting
> damnation for even thinking about such sinful things. Why do you pick on the Oneness, Dake Annotted Bible is
> TRINITARIAN!
>
Cheef
news:20030125022940...@mb-mu.aol.com:
>>I didn't include the people listed on the website (Billy Graham, C.S.
>>Lewis, & Amy Grant), because I don't think they would consider
>>themselves nudists. Graham & Lewis both participated in single-sex
>>social nudity, and Grant's nude beach days were (to the best of my
>>knowledge) limited to a brief period in the mid-1980s.
>
> Isn't listing them on your site a little deceptive, especially in
> light of your above statement?
I certainly don't mean it to be.
I don't mean to imply that they call themselves nudists, but rather that
they have participated in and see benefits in social nudity.
Cheef
> assertion is that there are a number of prominent evangelical leaders
> that are involved in social nudism that prefer to keep it a secret.
To clarify, I don't mean to imply vast numbers by any means.
Rather, I mentioned three.
Two of them have held prominent leadership positions, although they would not
be considered "well known" by most who read RMC.
One of them would be known to almost every reader of RMC.
> He's respecting their confidentiality.
>
> In other words CARMAN and TONY CAMPOLO asked Cheef to keep his mouth
> shut.
LOL!
Tony Campolo is big into public nudity... but only on the top of his head.
Raymond
"Cheef" <ch...@cheef.com> wrote in message news:Xns930D9917B3...@207.217.77.21...
Do so and lose what faith you have.
Proverbs 6:25 Lust not after her beauty in thine heart; neither let her take thee with her eyelids.
Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her
already in his heart.
Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another;
men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is
not of the Father, but is of the world.
1 John 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
scholar
market. I don't agree with everything he says but I like most of it.
It is very instructive. It also helps to show what prophecies of the
Old Testament are already fulfilled and when they were.
"Raymond" <rwk...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<b0o1hp$gg...@rain.i-cable.com>...
Jay
>they have participated in and see benefits in social nudity.
>
Cheef, I'm going to have to disagree with you re: Billy Graham and CS Lewis
seeing benefits in social nudity. I would hardly call skinny-dipping with a few
of the guys "social" nudity. Neither would I call showering in the gym social
nudity. The fact is, they are from a different generation. Going to a local
water hole and taking a dip was certainly different than than it is now. Then,
it was just "boys" but now you'd most likely be called a queer.
I feel lilke I'm rambling at the moment and probably haven't been clear.
Suffice it to say, I disagree with you.
Peter T. Chattaway
: "Cheef" <ch...@cheef.com> wrote:
: > Subscribe now to NUDIST NEWS!
:
: Do so and lose what faith you have.
: Proverbs 6:25 Lust not after her beauty in thine heart; neither let her
: take thee with her eyelids.
So I'll lose my faith if a woman fails to cover up her eyelids!?
: Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not
: fulfil the lust of the flesh.
So as long as these nudists walk in the Spirit, they're not in danger of
giving in to the lust of the flesh? What's the problem, then?
Cheef
news:20030126033817...@mb-mc.aol.com:
> Cheef, I'm going to have to disagree with you re: Billy Graham and CS
> Lewis seeing benefits in social nudity. I would hardly call
> skinny-dipping with a few of the guys "social" nudity.
Well, that's why I didn't call it "nudism".
> Suffice it to say, I disagree with you.
feel free. :)
Cheef
news:b0t5ms$k7...@rain.i-cable.com:
> Proverbs 6:25 Lust not
Sorry, but I'm not advocating lust.
--
visit CHEEF.COM - Your CHEEF source for nudist info
Subscribe now to NUDIST NEWS! http://cheef.com/lists
Raymond
"Brigitte Boisselier" <brigboi...@aol.com> wrote in message news:7a0c972.03012...@posting.google.com...
> "Raymond" <rwk...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<b0o1hp$gg...@rain.i-cable.com>...
> > "Brigitte Boisselier" <brigboi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:7a0c972.03012...@posting.google.com...
> > > I have been coming across a number of references to "Christian Nudism"
> > > as of late. At times there seems to be subtle references which might
> > > be considered to hint and study notes in the Dake Annotated Study
> > > Bible.
> > >
> > > Is there a connection with Social Nudism and the "Oneness" United
> > > Pentecostal movement?
> >
> > Yes the Oneness United Pentecostal Church movement, are against it, and will preach you in to Hell fire,and
everlasting
> > damnation for even thinking about such sinful things. Why do you pick on the Oneness, Dake Annotted Bible is
> > TRINITARIAN!
> >
> So are you "ONENESS" guys into running around naked or what?
Sure we are, in our own bathrooms, in our own showers, it is great. It is clear you don't read well, if you do out side
the Oneness will preach you into hell fire. Then the Bible will do the same.
Revelation 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not
that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Revelation 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked,
and they see his shame.
Raymond
"scholar" <anti...@ineedhits-mail.com> wrote in message news:bec9a4be.03012...@posting.google.com...
> Dake's annotated reference Bible is one of the best bibles on the
> market. I don't agree with everything he says but I like most of it.
> It is very instructive. It also helps to show what prophecies of the
> Old Testament are already fulfilled and when they were.
It does have a lot of information, only it is not reliable for any doctrinal use, neither Trinity or others. There are
many other bible that would give you the information on prophecies. When I checked out what he called history, I never
could find anyone to agree with him. His notes are just so many point and so many points of that, 99 points why this is
not and that is. No reference, no proof references, just his word for things. When I looked up words that show God
is One, or One God, he has no reply, nothing. On words such as "us" he goes into all kinds of points without outside
references. I like a reference bible that covers the issues and not just one mans idea. Then I find nothing about
nudism in a real Bible reference books. I do not have the Dake bible with me, so can not comment on any references of
his in his bible on this matter. Most bible would say this:
Revelation 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not
that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Revelation 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked,
and they see his shame.
>
Ethan Rogati
ch...@cheef.com wrote on 1/26/03 2:33 PM:
> "Raymond" <rwk...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:b0t5ms$k7...@rain.i-cable.com:
>
>> Proverbs 6:25 Lust not
>
> Sorry, but I'm not advocating lust.
Do you at least acknowledge the idea that some people have lust problems
when looking at naked people? Of course, many people have lust problems when
looking at clothed people, so I don't know if that nullifies the point or
not. ;)
snail
>ch...@cheef.com wrote on 1/26/03 2:33 PM:
>> "Raymond" <rwk...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> Sorry, but I'm not advocating lust.
>Do you at least acknowledge the idea that some people have lust problems
>when looking at naked people? Of course, many people have lust problems when
>looking at clothed people, so I don't know if that nullifies the point or
>not. ;)
I suspect it does :) I reckon I'm more likely to look lustfully at
a clothed person than a nekkid one. Nekkid people are ugly...I'm
wearing clothes and I'm ugly...imagine how much more ugly I'd be
if I took off all my clothes...does skinny dipping in Loch Ness
with a bunch of backpackers count as social nudity ?
--
snail @ careless net | nunc est bibendum | http://www.zip.com.au/~vvsnail
Raymond
"Cheef" <ch...@cheef.com> wrote in message news:Xns930F9420FD...@207.217.77.26...
> "Raymond" <rwk...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:b0t5ms$k7...@rain.i-cable.com:
>
> > Proverbs 6:25 Lust not
>
> Sorry, but I'm not advocating lust.
I suppose you are sorry, but that is just what you are advocating.
You advocate uncovering the nakeness of others, in a Christian newsgroup, and try to say God is Ok with it, and so on.
This brings lust, and that is all lust is in this case wanting to see the body of others that God says not to do. Here a
only a few of many verses to back my point and prove you wrong and evil in your ways.
Genesis 9:23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered
the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.
Exodus 28:42 And thou shalt make them linen breeches to cover their nakedness; from the loins even unto the thighs they
shall reach:
Leviticus 18:6 None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD.
Leviticus 18:7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother;
thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
Leviticus 18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.
Leviticus 18:9 The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born
at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.
Leviticus 18:10 The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not
uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness.
Leviticus 18:11 The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt
not uncover her nakedness.
Leviticus 18:12 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she is thy father's near kinswoman.
Leviticus 18:13 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister: for she is thy mother's near kinswoman.
Leviticus 18:14 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she
is thine aunt.
Leviticus 18:15 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she is thy son's wife; thou shalt not
uncover her nakedness.
Leviticus 18:16 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness.
Leviticus 18:17 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's
daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness.
For Believers in God, not only one or two verses against such, a hundred or more, this was just starters. A Christian
doesn't show their nakedness to anyone. A husband and wife belong to no one else these two shall be one, not open your
window and let the world see, that is sin, and others seeing produces lust, and lust brings the judgment of God.
Raymond
Raymond
"Peter T. Chattaway" <pet...@interchange.ubc.ca> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.21.030126...@inch.interchange.ubc.ca...
> On Sat, 25 Jan 2003, Raymond wrote:
> : "Cheef" <ch...@cheef.com> wrote:
>
> : > Subscribe now to NUDIST NEWS!
> :
> : Do so and lose what faith you have.
> : Proverbs 6:25 Lust not after her beauty in thine heart; neither let her
> : take thee with her eyelids.
>
> So I'll lose my faith if a woman fails to cover up her eyelids!?
You may lose your faith, because you are looking at her eyelids.
>
> : Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not
> : fulfil the lust of the flesh.
>
> So as long as these nudists walk in the Spirit, they're not in danger of
> giving in to the lust of the flesh? What's the problem, then?
The Spirit of demons gets them into Hell, that is a great problem.
Genesis 9:23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered
the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.
Exodus 28:42 And thou shalt make them linen breeches to cover their nakedness; from the loins even unto the thighs they
shall reach:
Leviticus 18:6 None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD.
Leviticus 18:7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother;
thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
Leviticus 18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.
Leviticus 18:9 The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born
at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.
Leviticus 18:10 The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not
uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness.
Leviticus 18:11 The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt
not uncover her nakedness.
Leviticus 18:12 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she is thy father's near kinswoman.
Leviticus 18:13 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister: for she is thy mother's near kinswoman.
Leviticus 18:14 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she
is thine aunt.
Leviticus 18:15 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she is thy son's wife; thou shalt not
uncover her nakedness.
Leviticus 18:16 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness.
Leviticus 18:17 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's
daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness.
>
Cheef
news:BA5A2D95.3EB%ethan...@hotmail.com:
> Do you at least acknowledge the idea that some people have lust
> problems when looking at naked people? Of course, many people have
> lust problems when looking at clothed people
Precisely.
And a lot of folks have less lust problems with nude folks than with
clothed folks.
Plus, nudism isn't about looking, it's about being.
Ethan Rogati
ch...@cheef.com wrote on 1/27/03 6:44 PM:
> Ethan Rogati <ethan...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:BA5A2D95.3EB%ethan...@hotmail.com:
>
>> Do you at least acknowledge the idea that some people have lust
>> problems when looking at naked people? Of course, many people have
>> lust problems when looking at clothed people
>
> Precisely.
>
> And a lot of folks have less lust problems with nude folks than with
> clothed folks.
Because there's nothing left to the imagination, I presume. =)
> Plus, nudism isn't about looking, it's about being.
That's profound. Now, tell me what the heck that means.
Cheef
news:b12dh4$ob...@rain.i-cable.com:
>> Sorry, but I'm not advocating lust.
>
> I suppose you are sorry, but that is just what you are advocating.
No, I'm not, but this isn't going to go anywhere, so I'll leave it
there.
> You advocate uncovering the nakeness of others,
Actually, I'm not. I don't believe in uncovering anybody else's
nakedness. Now, if they want to uncover their own nakedness of their
own choice, that's an entirely different matter.
However, I'm not here to advocate nudism. I was simply answering
someone's question regarding pentecostalism and nudity. I then merely
answered attacks made in response to my response.
> Here a only a few of many verses
* taken completely out of Biblical context *
> to back my point and prove you wrong and evil in your ways.
* a classic example of using the Bible to prove my views instead of
asking God to speak to me through the Bible *
> Genesis 9:23
> And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their
> shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their
> father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's
> nakedness.
Everybody got that? If your father is ever drunk in a tent and
masturbating, don't go in and watch.
> Exodus 28:42
> And thou shalt make them linen breeches to
> cover their nakedness; from the loins even unto the thighs they shall
> reach:
And if you're ever escaping from Egypt, and your uncle is Moses, and you
get chosen as a priest, and you're going into the Tent of Meeting or
preparing to sacrifice something on the altar, be sure to put your
underpants on before you get there.
So, don't have sex with any of your relatives. I'll agree with that.
Even if you want to ignore the fact that "uncover the nakedness" means
"have sex with" in this particular context, you can go with the exact
literal words. Just don't take anybody else's clothes off and you're
okay.
> others seeing produces lust
Don't presume that your temptations are the temptations of others.
--
visit CHEEF.COM - Your CHEEF source for nudist info
Subscribe now to NUDIST NEWS! http://cheef.com/lists
David Bruce Murray
>
> Plus, nudism isn't about looking, it's about being.
Yeah, but if it ain't worth seeing, why bother to show it?
--
David Bruce Murray / dmur...@NOSPAMrfci.net
---Making hay while the sun shines---
Peter T. Chattaway
: > So I'll lose my faith if a woman fails to cover up her eyelids!?
:
: You may lose your faith, because you are looking at her eyelids.
Now *there's* a quote!
: Leviticus 18:6 . . .
Gee, I don't know about you, but all this obsessive talk about nakedness
in Leviticus is getting me kind of horny.
Oh, wait, there's references to incest here. Ewww. Not that all forms of
incest listed here are necessarily bad -- Abraham and Sarah were brother
and sister, Jacob married two sisters, Moses's parents were aunt and
nephew, David apparently would have been open to letting his children from
different wives marry each other, etc. I guess the word "nakedness" just
leaps at you, when it's repeated and repeated and repeated like that.
Cheef
ethan...@hotmail.com:
>> Plus, nudism isn't about looking, it's about being.
>
> That's profound. Now, tell me what the heck that means.
it means nudists are nude because they like BEING nude,
not because they want to LOOK at nude people
Cheef
news:DbKdnTnJ07N...@rfci.net:
>> Plus, nudism isn't about looking, it's about being.
>
> Yeah, but if it ain't worth seeing, why bother to show it?
You make the mistaken assumption that nudists are "showing" so others can
see. Are you a hand model? If not, why do you show your hands?
Ethan Rogati
ch...@cheef.com wrote on 1/27/03 8:40 PM:
> Ethan Rogati <ethan...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:BA5B31AD.409%
> ethan...@hotmail.com:
>
>>> Plus, nudism isn't about looking, it's about being.
>>
>> That's profound. Now, tell me what the heck that means.
>
> it means nudists are nude because they like BEING nude,
> not because they want to LOOK at nude people
Is that true of all nudists? The first may be true of most nudists, but it
doesn't preclude the second being true as well.
Dario Western
Jerry Falwell was once quoted as saying 'If God had intended for us to be
naked, we would have been born that way'. There have also been stories that
the Rev. Sir Billy Graham swam nude in the White House pool.
None of the celebrity evangelists I know have promoted nudism/naturism to
any degree. The reason why is because apart from the stereotype of them all
being sexual deviants (in which organised nudist clubs have quickly and
quietly dealt with), in the Biblical legends, nakedness is linked with
poverty and humiliation.
There aren't any CCM musicians I know who have embraced social nudism
either, much less publicise it - although I had heard Amy Grant is into it.
Dario Western
(Brisbane, Australia)
Dario Western
Like most of the fundamentalist/pentecostal Christians, you have taken these
verses completely out of context to rationalise your intolerance of naked
human beings.
> Sure we are, in our own bathrooms, in our own
> showers, it is great. It is clear you don't read well, if
> you do out side the Oneness will preach you into hell
> fire. Then the Bible will do the same.
What about in the doctor's office? What about on the beach?
> Revelation 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and
> increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and
> knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and > poor, and blind,
and naked:
That was the church in Laodicea that he was referring to. The nakedness in
that context is more relevant to the likes of naked beggars in Africa.
> Revelation 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is > he that
watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he
> walk naked, and they see his shame.
Again, this is a form of childish behaviour, and it has nothing to do with
nudism, but rather a form of bullying.
I think if you guys were to at least visit one of the local nudist clubs and
camps around your area, you will find that they seem to be a lot better
adjusted with their lives.
Have a look at this site: http://www.clothesfree.com and you'll see that
nobody at these places is behaving in a debaucherous and aggressive manner.
Those few individuals who use nudist clubs as a means of letting out pent-up
sexual energy are advised to keep it either in their tents or caravans, or
to leave the premises.
Dario Western
Cheef
>>
>> it means nudists are nude because they like BEING nude,
>> not because they want to LOOK at nude people
>
> Is that true of all nudists? The first may be true of most nudists,
> but it doesn't preclude the second being true as well.
This is kind of like the statement that "Christians don't steal."
It's true of Christians living their Christian life.
It's not true of Christians who go contrary to God's teaching.
So, true nudists are nude because they like being nude.
That's not to say there aren't some folks who call themselves nudists,
but have mixed motivations.
--
visit CHEEF.COM - Your CHEEF source for nudist info
Subscribe to NUDIST NEWS! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nudist-news-group
Cheef
news:DrAZ9.35319$jM5....@newsfeeds.bigpond.com:
> Jerry Falwell was once quoted as saying 'If God had intended for us to
> be naked, we would have been born that way'.
What's your source for that?
> There aren't any CCM musicians I know who have embraced social nudism
> either, much less publicise it - although I had heard Amy Grant is
> into it.
Amy Grant once went nude on a secluded beach with a female friend. I don't
think that necessarily counts as social nudism, although I think her
description of the occasion as innocent and childlike is in keeping with
nudist beliefs and practices.
There is one very well-known, well-loved, and well-respected CCM musician
who has embraced nudism, but who has never made it publicly known.
David Bruce Murray
> "David Bruce Murray" <dmur...@NOSPAM.rfci.net> wrote in
> news:DbKdnTnJ07N...@rfci.net:
>
> >> Plus, nudism isn't about looking, it's about being.
> >
> > Yeah, but if it ain't worth seeing, why bother to show it?
>
> You make the mistaken assumption that nudists are "showing" so others can
> see. Are you a hand model? If not, why do you show your hands?
Nude hands are handy for a lot of reasons . . . typing, unlocking doors,
etc. . . . and nude hands are generally accepted by almost all Western
social standards.
You know . . . sometimes when I'm in mixed company and I need to fart, I'll
force myself hold it in. It's called having a sense of taste for what's
appropriate in a given situation. I might enjoy farting a great deal;
farting may define my total identity. But my need to "be myself" (that is,
to make a total freaking ass of myself) should take a back seat to taste,
IMO. I realize this is a concept that's largely lost on modern society, but
there you go.
I realize you probably restrict your practice of nudism to groups of people
that don't mind, or say they don't mind, and that's fine. Knock yourself
out. But give us some credit. I wear clothes that are washed regularly and
that look reasonably decent. Few tears or stains, in other words. Why would
I do that? Because I like wearing clean clothes? Partially, yes. Because I
don't want people sniffing the odor of dirty clothes or doing a double take
at my choice of attire? Primarily, yes.
I don't buy for one minute that you spend time with naked people, but don't
look at them. If you really aren't exhibiting yourself, you wouldn't feel
the need to have a promotional website for the practice of nudism. You'd
just be yourself.
Breezy
> Not that all forms of
> incest listed here are necessarily bad -- Abraham and Sarah were brother
> and sister,
Either that, or Abram lied to the Egyptians and told them she was his
sister.
> Jacob married two sisters,
I wouldn't say that makes the sisters incestuous.
> Moses's parents were aunt and
> nephew,
Curious about the reference for that. I can only find that they were both
of the house of Levi.
> David apparently would have been open to letting his children from
> different wives marry each other, etc.
He was also open to a lot of other things that weren't exactly of God. :)
-Breezy
Brigitte Boisselier
> "scholar" <anti...@ineedhits-mail.com> wrote in message news:bec9a4be.03012...@posting.google.com...
> > Dake's annotated reference Bible is one of the best bibles on the
> > market. I don't agree with everything he says but I like most of it.
> > It is very instructive. It also helps to show what prophecies of the
> > Old Testament are already fulfilled and when they were.
>
> It does have a lot of information, only it is not reliable for any doctrinal use, neither Trinity or others. There are
> many other bible that would give you the information on prophecies. When I checked out what he called history, I never
> could find anyone to agree with him. His notes are just so many point and so many points of that, 99 points why this is
> not and that is. No reference, no proof references, just his word for things. When I looked up words that show God
> is One, or One God, he has no reply, nothing. On words such as "us" he goes into all kinds of points without outside
> references. I like a reference bible that covers the issues and not just one mans idea. Then I find nothing about
> nudism in a real Bible reference books. I do not have the Dake bible with me, so can not comment on any references of
> his in his bible on this matter. Most bible would say this:
> Revelation 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not
> that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
> Revelation 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked,
> and they see his shame.
>
What do you think about Finis Dake's teaching regarding the Curse of Ham?
Dake-Bonoism
> Ethan Rogati <ethan...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:BA5B31AD.409%
> ethan...@hotmail.com:
>
> >> Plus, nudism isn't about looking, it's about being.
> >
> > That's profound. Now, tell me what the heck that means.
>
> it means nudists are nude because they like BEING nude,
> not because they want to LOOK at nude people
Do you think fat people are more or less likely to be attracted to the
naturist lifestyle?
Jason Steiner
>
> There is one very well-known, well-loved, and well-respected CCM
> musician who has embraced nudism, but who has never made it
> publicly known.
And given that nudists are generally the people you'd least want to
see nude, my guess is it's Bob Hartman.
jason
--
"Listen, my boy, I can't abide children. I know it's the style nowadays to
make a terrible fuss over you - but I don't go for it. As far as I'm concerned,
they're no good for anything but screaming, torturing people, breaking things,
smearing books with jam and tearing the pages." - The Neverending Story
Cheef
> I don't buy for one minute that you spend time with naked people, but
> don't look at them.
Of course I look at them. I want to remember somebody's name, etc. What I
don't do is look at them any more, or any differently, than if they are
clothed.
> If you really aren't exhibiting yourself, you
> wouldn't feel the need to have a promotional website for the practice
> of nudism. You'd just be yourself.
That's ridiculous. I also run my church's website. Are you suggesting all
Christians who run church websites are exhibiting themselves, as opposed to
encouraging people to become Christians?
--
visit CHEEF.COM - Your CHEEF source for nudist info
Subscribe to NUDIST NEWS! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nudist-news-group
Cheef
news:855251a4.03012...@posting.google.com:
> Do you think fat people are more or less likely to be attracted to the
> naturist lifestyle?
For me, it's more attracted (after all, my skin is never too tight).
That said, the majority of American nudists are overweight, just like the
majority of Americans. I don't think there's a noticable difference.
--
visit CHEEF.COM - Your CHEEF source for nudist info
Subscribe to NUDIST NEWS! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nudist-news-group
Jay
>> musician who has embraced nudism, but who has never made it
>> publicly known.
>
>And given that nudists are generally the people you'd least want to
>see nude, my guess is it's Bob Hartman.
>
>jason
Good one, Jason!
Jay
Make me a wish, mind over matter
________________________________________
www.underheaven.com
Peter T. Chattaway
: > Not that all forms of incest listed here are necessarily bad --
: > Abraham and Sarah were brother and sister . . .
:
: Either that, or Abram lied to the Egyptians and told them she was his
: sister.
Ah, a loophole!
: > . . . Jacob married two sisters . . .
:
: I wouldn't say that makes the sisters incestuous.
True, but what he did is still forbidden in the Leviticus passage cited
here. (And the sisters were his first cousins, anyway -- and I think his
mother was his second cousin, but I could be wrong about that.)
: > . . . Moses's parents were aunt and nephew . . .
:
: Curious about the reference for that. I can only find that they were
: both of the house of Levi.
Exodus 6:20 -- "Amram married his father's sister Jochebed, who bore him
Aaron and Moses. Amram lived 137 years."
Jack Curl
Peter T. Chattaway wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Breezy wrote:
>
> : > Not that all forms of incest listed here are necessarily bad --
> : > Abraham and Sarah were brother and sister . . .
> :
> : Either that, or Abram lied to the Egyptians and told them she was his
> : sister.
>
> Ah, a loophole!
They were actually half brother/sister. Gen 20:12
>
> : > . . . Jacob married two sisters . . .
> :
> : I wouldn't say that makes the sisters incestuous.
>
> True, but what he did is still forbidden in the Leviticus passage cited
> here. (And the sisters were his first cousins, anyway -- and I think his
> mother was his second cousin, but I could be wrong about that.)
>
But Leviticus was written WELL after Jacob was dead, several hundred
years, right? How can that admonition apply in this case? The law began
applying at the point it was given, not retroactively to generations past.
My PERSONAL OPINION is that about this time is when the gene pool became
diversified or diluted enough, or broken enough, whatever the case may
be, that major genetic problems would occur in offspring from closely
related family members. God said, "From now on, no more inter-marrying
like this."
Of course, someone probably thinks I'm going to hell for even suggesting
this. That seems to be the norm for espousing a different viewpoint.
Dario Western
> Do you think fat people are more or less likely to be attracted to the
> naturist lifestyle?
I think they would because they can go around with other fat people and not
feel like they are intellectually or spiritually threatened.
Then again, we do live in a culture that says that the body is a temple and
should be kept well maintained - regardless of whether you are young or old.
Dario Western
Breezy
> : Either that, or Abram lied to the Egyptians and told them she was his
> : sister.
>
> Ah, a loophole!
To tell the truth I had never noticed what the verse said that Jack Curl
gave, Gen 20:12. The more I learn about Abraham the more I realize that it
was God's grace (not Abraham's works or lifestyle) that allowed him to be
called the father of faith. Of course he had works to "justify" his faith,
but he had a lot going against him too. There's good news for anyone
struggling to try and live the Christian life: give it up (the struggle,
that is) and rest in God's grace.
> : > . . . Jacob married two sisters . . .
> :
> : I wouldn't say that makes the sisters incestuous.
>
> True, but what he did is still forbidden in the Leviticus passage cited
> here. (And the sisters were his first cousins, anyway -- and I think his
> mother was his second cousin, but I could be wrong about that.)
This may help their case:
Rom 5:13 ...for until the Law sin was in the world; but sin is not imputed
when there is no law.
But I note that that wasn't your original point anyway. :)
> : > . . . Moses's parents were aunt and nephew . . .
> :
> : Curious about the reference for that. I can only find that they were
> : both of the house of Levi.
>
> Exodus 6:20 -- "Amram married his father's sister Jochebed, who bore him
> Aaron and Moses. Amram lived 137 years."
Gotcha. Don't know why I couldn't find that earlier.
-Breezy
Peter T. Chattaway
: Peter T. Chattaway wrote:
: > On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Breezy wrote:
: > : > Not that all forms of incest listed here are necessarily bad --
: > : > Abraham and Sarah were brother and sister . . .
: > :
: > : Either that, or Abram lied to the Egyptians and told them she was
: > : his sister.
: >
: > Ah, a loophole!
:
: They were actually half brother/sister. Gen 20:12
Irrelevant, as far as Leviticus 18:9 is concerned ("Do not have sexual
relations with your sister, either your father's daughter or your mother's
daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere").
: But Leviticus was written WELL after Jacob was dead, several hundred
: years, right?
Jacob died after he moved to Egypt, and Israel was in Egypt no more than
400 years or so -- possibly only half as long, I think, depending on
whether you think that 400-year figure includes the lives of the
patriarchs. Does that count as "several" hundred? And of course, the
thing between Moses' parents was a lot more recent than that.
: How can that admonition apply in this case? The law began applying at
: the point it was given, not retroactively to generations past.
On the contrary, God ends this list of laws by stating that he is
punishing the generations past of other nations for breaking these laws.
Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the
nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. Even
the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land
vomited out its inhabitants. But you must keep my decrees and my laws.
The native-born and the aliens living among you must not do any of
these detestable things, for all these things were done by the people
who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. And if
you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the
nations that were before you. -- Leviticus 18:24-28
So the big question is why Israel should be let off the hook, I guess.
David Bruce Murray
> > wouldn't feel the need to have a promotional website for the practice
> > of nudism. You'd just be yourself.
>
> That's ridiculous. I also run my church's website. Are you suggesting
all
> Christians who run church websites are exhibiting themselves, as opposed
to
> encouraging people to become Christians?
Certainly they are. I want people to prepare for worship, so I exhibit my
church's style of worship by maintaining a website for it as well. The
exhibition is a major part of the the drawing card . . . of course,
hopefully, with a church website, it's an exhibition of Christ that's the
draw, but more times than not, it's the style of worship that's advertised,
or the denomination that's associated, or whether they are "Spirit filled,"
or whether they are "KJV only."
My whole point is that simply "being" as you put it, requires no extra
promotion of what you are. I am a heterosexual, caucasian, single male who
lives in NC, for example. The minute I start using "Make NC your home" in my
signature line, I've gone beyond "being" an NC resident. I would then be
exhibiting my status as an NC resident.
There's nothing remotely ridiculous about that concept. I'm not suggesting
you shouldn't promote what you are. I'm simply pointing out what you are in
fact doing, and you seem to take offense to that for some reason.
I shoot wedding videos, so I recently was working at a booth at a bridal
show. One dealer had a fashion show of gowns. These were "exhibited." Why?
Because an emphasis was placed on them by saying "Here's what we have to
offer."
The minute you advertise yourself as a nudist, you step from merely "being"
to "exhibiting." The minute I wear a shirt with a logo or a slogan, I step
from "being" a Coke drinker, or whatever, to one that exhibits my preference
for Coke. When you guys had that nude church gathering at Whispering Pines
with the press on hand to report on it, you were exhibiting yourselves to
the world.
There are nudists and then there are nudists who promote nudism. Just as
there are Coke drinkers and then there are those who promote Coke as their
preference. You can't say you simply "are," when you encourage others to
join you. Is a group of guys showering together after Phys. Ed. class an
exhibition? No, as long as none of them call attention to their nudity. Is a
group of people sitting around watching a movie or eating dinner together an
exhibition? It certainly is if you have to sent out notices or maintain a
website to get people to show up.
David Bruce Murray
"Breezy" <nowo...@NOmchsiSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:Z5SZ9.82921$6G4.11453@sccrnsc02...
> "Peter T. Chattaway" wrote:
> > : Either that, or Abram lied to the Egyptians and told them she was his
> > : sister.
> >
> > Ah, a loophole!
>
> To tell the truth I had never noticed what the verse said that Jack Curl
> gave, Gen 20:12. The more I learn about Abraham the more I realize that
it
> was God's grace (not Abraham's works or lifestyle) that allowed him to be
> called the father of faith. Of course he had works to "justify" his
faith,
> but he had a lot going against him too. There's good news for anyone
> struggling to try and live the Christian life: give it up (the struggle,
> that is) and rest in God's grace.
Every respected man in the Bible had some faults, with the exception of
Christ, of course. We've been studying that at church recently. God's grace
is all we have.
Peter T. Chattaway
: There are nudists and then there are nudists who promote nudism.
I think the problem here is that you seem to have conflated the two in
your earlier posts, i.e. you seem to think nudism is, by definition,
exhibitionism and thus a form of promoting nudism, or something.
: Is a group of guys showering together after Phys. Ed. class an
: exhibition? No, as long as none of them call attention to their nudity.
: Is a group of people sitting around watching a movie or eating dinner
: together an exhibition? It certainly is if you have to sent out notices
: or maintain a website to get people to show up.
So nudism, you are now saying, is *not* exhibitionism if people merely
happen to hang out in the nude together? Or is it automatically
exhibitionism simply because these people have to let each other know
about the designated times and places for such gatherings?
Thewebchyk
Ethan Rogati
thewe...@aol.com wrote on 1/29/03 5:15 PM:
> sn...@careless.netOOPS.au (snail) wrote:
>
>> I'm wearing clothes and I'm ugly...
>
> Nuh uh!
As for me, I'm not going to become a nudist as the world has too many
reasons for fear in the first place. But nobody ever includes me in these
"you're cute" discussions and I'm bummed. =(
Dake-Bonoism
> Peter Riden <Affi...@the-grand-barn.com> wrote in message
> news:a2f01b53.03012...@posting.google.com...
> snip.
> .
> > But to deny, at all cost, the eventualities that can arise.. I
> > ask.. who are they trying to fool?
>
> Thank you for implying that sex and nudity don't have to go hand in hand.
> To that I agree.
Sex and nudity go hand in hand by necessesity.
Nudity and sex OTH do not have to go hand in hand.
The operative word you used above is 'can' arise, not must,
> not do arise. Can infers the possibility, not probability, not liklihood.
> The same eventualities can result ( 'arise' is a limited use of words) in a
> textile situation, in any assembly of people.
> We are not trying to fool anyone that it can't eventuate, just that we would
> like it not to eventate publically in our domain and take steps for it not
> to happen as is our choice.
> We are all different and don't like to be dictated to, as to how our
> recreation is, especially when it's done by someone with a vested interest,
> a business promoter who harangues us.
> As to ' eventualities that can arise', why don't you go for 'eventualities
> that can eventuate' to pad out your post even further or keep it simple and
> go for 'what can eventuate' or be straight up and try 'that sexual activity
> can result'.
> Then there is the emotive ... 'at all costs' why not try 'vehemently',
> that may be closer to the fact.
> You seem to do a lot of tap-dancing with the way you express yourself and
> activities.
> Why not be straight up?
> hulby.
learner
You posted:
>Any 'Christian' nudism, is truly not christian, but of the devil.
>
>And The UPCI does not endorse any of this foolishness!
>We have standards of seperation(with roots in the bible).
>Adam, and Eve used a mere leaf to cover themselves,
>but that was not enough in God's eye's so he killed an animal, and made
>clothes for them.
>
>Any nudism goes right against God, and in return is not christian at all!
>In Jesus' Name!
>-Warren Gross
>
I can say amen to this, even if it comes from an "oneness" guy!
Learner
>!This message was sent solely for the recipient from:
>Mr. Warren Gross
No, actually it was sent to a PUBLIC newsgroup where it may be read by
anyone who wants to look.
>warren...@truthaboutchrist.org
>Have you read, & obeyed the book of acts starting with chapter 2, and verse
>38?
No, I read the WHOLE BIBLE, multiple times, starting with Genesis 1:1.
My belief includes it all, not just Acts 2:38. Sorry if you have
problems with that.
>Have you repented, and been baptized in the NAME of JESUS CHRIST for the
>remission of sins, and
I was saved, had my sins forgiven, and was baptized into Jesus Christ
almost 30 years ago. BTW, His REAL name is Iesous Christos. And that
might be the Greek "translation" of Y'shua Mashiyach, which may be
what Mary Named Him.
So if you pronounce the word "Jeezus," you are pronouncing the
translation of a translation of His REAL Name.
Is that translation of a translation of the REAL thing any better
than, "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost?" And if you use that, are you
obeying Jesus who said to say, "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost?"
Personally I don't think so.
>received the GIFT of the Holy Ghost (With the
>evidence of speaking in other tongues, as the Spirit gave the utterance)?
Since my Bible NEVER says that the Holy Ghost WILL BE "evidenced" by
anything, your question is senseless.
I received the GIFT of the Holy Ghost almost 30 years ago. The only
"evidence" I can offer is that my life changed completely, He works
through me and in me and on me daily, and that the FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT
is completely present in my life where NONE of it was before! Only
the Spirit of God could do these things, not me.
But I never babbled and called it "speaking in tongues." That is not
what the Bible gives us as tongues. Sorry if that disappoints you.
Learner
Mark Bassett
news:3e38962d...@news.velocitus.net...
> Learner
> >!This message was sent solely for the recipient from:
> >Mr. Warren Gross
>
> No, actually it was sent to a PUBLIC newsgroup where it may be read by
> anyone who wants to look.
Hey, you must be the recipient!
Cheef
> My whole point is that simply "being" as you put it, requires no extra
> promotion of what you are.
I wasn't referring to "being" in that vague new-agey/pop-psychology way.
I simply mean it's about "being nude", not "looking at nude people".
snail
Dake-Bonoism <dake_b...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>"hulby" <Schu...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>> Thank you for implying that sex and nudity don't have to go hand in hand.
>> To that I agree.
>Sex and nudity go hand in hand by necessesity.
>Nudity and sex OTH do not have to go hand in hand.
...and thus we're back to the big M.
--
snail @ careless net | nunc est bibendum | http://www.zip.com.au/~vvsnail
snail
>in article 20030129171503...@mb-fi.aol.com, Thewebchyk at
I need to know more people like Rose.
>As for me, I'm not going to become a nudist as the world has too many
>reasons for fear in the first place. But nobody ever includes me in these
>"you're cute" discussions and I'm bummed. =(
Bad choice of words...I was taught many years ago that cute
translates roughly as "interesting but ugly". Consequently
I've always been happy to be cute :-)
Raymond
"Brigitte Boisselier" <brigboi...@aol.com> wrote in message news:7a0c972.03012...@posting.google.com...
I don't have his teaching on this, but by his other mistakes, I drought that I would agree with him. Since the bible
doesn't say much on the matter, anything he would say would have to be conjectures and his only mind. Not biblical.
For another reason, I do not find a curse on Ham, I believe you got CAIN and HAM mixed up, as the this verse shows.
Genesis 4:15 And the LORD said unto him, "Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold."
And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
Ham seems to be blessed of God not cursed. See verses below.
1 Chronicles 4:40 And they found lush pasture and good, and the land was wide and quiet and peaceable; for they of Ham
had dwelt there of old.
Genesis 9:18 And the sons of Noah who went forth from the ark were Shem and Ham and Japheth; and Ham is the father of
Canaan.
Psalms 105:23 Israel also came into Egypt, and Jacob sojourned in the land of Ham.
Psalms 105:27 They showed His signs among them, and wonders in the land of Ham.
Psalms 106:22 wondrous works in the land of Ham, and fearsome things by the Red Sea.
Yours in Jesus Christ,
Raymond Knapp,Th.B, D.D
Homepage at Website: www.pioneers-for-Jesus.org
Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men
by which we must be saved." NASU
Raymond
"Dario Western" <Dario_...@nospambigpond.com> wrote in message news:sTAZ9.35321$jM5....@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
> Raymond,
>
> Like most of the fundamentalist/pentecostal Christians, you have taken these
> verses completely out of context to rationalise your intolerance of naked
> human beings.
All talk, no facts, then if that is the best you can do, you are in error. We are not asked in the bible to tolerate
naked humans, the bible says not to show our nakedness to others. Which like most Bible believers, what ever name you
like to call them, do believe. The bible is the rule book for Christians, and that is where you show your intolerance
to God and His word.
>
> > Sure we are, in our own bathrooms, in our own
> > showers, it is great. It is clear you don't read well, if
> > you do out side the Oneness will preach you into hell
> > fire. Then the Bible will do the same.
>
> What about in the doctor's office? What about on the beach?
Doctors office for a examination even the bible approves of that. On your own private, high walled beach, go for it, in
the winter, and cold I sure even you would think twice about that.
>
> > Revelation 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and
> > increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and
> > knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and > poor, and blind,
> and naked:
>
> That was the church in Laodicea that he was referring to. The nakedness in
> that context is more relevant to the likes of naked beggars in Africa.
Do you see the word beggars here, then even the beggars in Africa should be clothed, even more proof, that no one even a
beggar should be nude.
>
> > Revelation 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is > he that
> watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he
> > walk naked, and they see his shame.
>
> Again, this is a form of childish behaviour, and it has nothing to do with
> nudism, but rather a form of bullying.
So Gods word to you is childish, then Hell is hot also. Yes it has nothing to do with nudism that is the point, Keep
your garments ON, and do not walk naked, any where, any place, nothing at all to approve being naked. Again you do not
read and think for yourself, before replying.
>
> I think if you guys were to at least visit one of the local nudist clubs and
> camps around your area, you will find that they seem to be a lot better
> adjusted with their lives.
You sound like the story of the spider and the fly. Come and visit, and that will be the last time you do. There are
no such camps and such around my area, we would have them all closed. Those using them in jail, for public indecency,
and perversion and corrupting the minds of children to name a few.
>
> Dario Western
>
>
Michael Martin
"snail" <sn...@careless.netOOPS.au> wrote in message
news:slrnb3i8u7...@zipperii.zip.com.au...
> [crossposts removed]
>
> Dake-Bonoism <dake_b...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >"hulby" <Schu...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> >> Thank you for implying that sex and nudity don't have to go hand
in hand.
> >> To that I agree.
> >Sex and nudity go hand in hand by necessesity.
> >Nudity and sex OTH do not have to go hand in hand.
>
> ...and thus we're back to the big M.
You don't miss a beat, do you, snail?
--
Michael Martin
http://www.stormraven.com
"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love, and be loved in
return."
Breezy
> > ...and thus we're back to the big M.
>
> You don't miss a beat, do you, snail?
He's rather handy.
-Breezy
Breezy
> The bible is the rule book for Christians
Maybe I could let you in on a little ancient secret: No, it's not. :)
The "rules" in the Bible (the Law) are for those who have *not yet* come to
Christ. In order for a person to come to Christ and bear true godly fruit,
he has to *die* to the law (as opposed to trying to abide by it). (Rom 7:4)
Once a person is in Christ, he has died to the law and is not under it (Gal
3:24-25), and serves in "the newness of the Spirit," not law.
You were speaking about a curse with someone else... so speaking of curses:
"For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse..." (Gal
3:10)
I just want to let you know... the Christian life is a life of freedom from
the bondage of the rules of the law! Paul calls the law "the ministry of
condemnation" and the "ministry of death." *Die* to this death and
condemnation and *live* freely in Christ!
You may bring up Jesus' words, "if you love me, keep my commandments." Some
people read this as "if you love me, you'd *better* keep my commandments."
But in the light of Jesus' ministry of light burdens and an easy yoke for
believers, and in light of the rest of New Covenant doctrine, I read it more
as "it will be natural for you to obey me if your love for me is real."
Also, by "commandments," I believe He's not talking about the OT law, but
rather His own words such as "love your neighbor as yourself" and "do unto
others as you'd have done unto yourself," etc. These things flow freely out
of the life of a person who is walking in the Spirit, not law.
Those laws in Leviticus and Exodus and Deuteronomy, etc, have their place
and purpose... only it's not in the life of the Christian. Besides, you may
easily be able to pick out some of the laws and point out how others are
breaking them, but maybe you could take some time to read those laws and see
how you yourself are completely disobeying them. And then thank God that
since you're in Christ, the point is moot.
-Breezy
learner
Ethan Rogati
sn...@careless.netOOPS.au wrote on 1/30/03 8:07 AM:
> Ethan Rogati <ethan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> in article 20030129171503...@mb-fi.aol.com, Thewebchyk at
>>> sn...@careless.netOOPS.au (snail) wrote:
>>>> I'm wearing clothes and I'm ugly...
>>> Nuh uh!
>
> I need to know more people like Rose.
She does seem to favor you.
>> As for me, I'm not going to become a nudist as the world has too many
>> reasons for fear in the first place. But nobody ever includes me in these
>> "you're cute" discussions and I'm bummed. =(
>
> Bad choice of words...I was taught many years ago that cute
> translates roughly as "interesting but ugly". Consequently
> I've always been happy to be cute :-)
Under that definition, it might be nice to be cute. What's the word for
"interesting and nice looking"?
Skaught
Oh, not THIS jerk again.
Scott
Michael Martin
news:1d6da427.03013...@posting.google.com...
Yeah, we've pounded this into the ground, haven't we?
-MIKE-
>> > >
>> > > You don't miss a beat, do you, snail?
>> >
>> > He's rather handy.
>> >
>> > -Breezy
>>
>> Oh, not THIS jerk again.
>
> Yeah, we've pounded this into the ground, haven't we?
>
> --
> Michael Martin
It just keeps going in a circle, huh?
-MIKE-
--
http://mikedrums.com
mi...@mikedrums.com or hit 'reply'
Cheef
> What's the word
> for "interesting and nice looking"?
that'd be "cheefly"
Ethan Rogati
ch...@cheef.com wrote on 1/30/03 3:58 PM:
> Ethan Rogati <ethan...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:BA5EC1FE.46C%ethan...@hotmail.com:
>
>> What's the word
>> for "interesting and nice looking"?
>
> that'd be "cheefly"
I thought that would be "interesting and not wearing any clothes".
Andrew Kerr
"Jason Steiner" <ja...@gaydeceiver.com> wrote in message
news:8tc71b...@shell.gaydeceiver.com...
> Cheef <ch...@cheef.com> wrote:
> >
> > There is one very well-known, well-loved, and well-respected CCM
> > musician who has embraced nudism, but who has never made it
> > publicly known.
>
> And given that nudists are generally the people you'd least want to
> see nude, my guess is it's Bob Hartman.
>
> jason
Ha, man....I needed that today!
Andrew
Brian Trosko
>>> > > > ...and thus we're back to the big M.
>>> > > You don't miss a beat, do you, snail?
>>> > He's rather handy.
>> Yeah, we've pounded this into the ground, haven't we?
I'm pretty impressed you managed to pull that off.
Brigitte Boisselier
> Hi,
>
> > I don't have his teaching on this, but by his other mistakes, I drought
> that I would agree with him. Since the bible
> > doesn't say much on the matter, anything he would say would have to be
> conjectures and his only mind. Not biblical.
> >
> > For another reason, I do not find a curse on Ham, I believe you got CAIN
> and HAM mixed up, as the this verse shows.
> >
> > Genesis 4:15 And the LORD said unto him, "Therefore whosoever slayeth
> Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold."
> > And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
>
> done to Abel? Was that curse really a blessing in disguise?
>
> > Ham seems to be blessed of God not cursed. See verses below.
> >
> > 1 Chronicles 4:40 And they found lush pasture and good, and the land was
> wide and quiet and peaceable; for they of Ham
> > had dwelt there of old.
> > Genesis 9:18 And the sons of Noah who went forth from the ark were Shem
> and Ham and Japheth; and Ham is the father of
> > Canaan.
> > Psalms 105:23 Israel also came into Egypt, and Jacob sojourned in the
> land of Ham.
> > Psalms 105:27 They showed His signs among them, and wonders in the land
> of Ham.
> > Psalms 106:22 wondrous works in the land of Ham, and fearsome things by
> the Red Sea.
>
> Christian nudists have suggested that something more went on with Ham just
> seeing Noah drunk and naked in the tent for Noah to find out what he had
> done.
>
> Maybe if you were to check out this site: http://www.naturistlife.com for a
> better account, you'll find that it makes more sense.
>
> I would certainly not make fun of my father if he was drunk - then again my
> father rarely to never gets drunk.
>
> Dario Western
The Curse of Ham is has been used to justify the enslavement of
Africans. It's used by white South Africans, KKK types, etc.
Brigitte Boisselier
> "Skaught" <skaug...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1d6da427.03013...@posting.google.com...
> > "Breezy" <nowo...@NOmchsiSPAM.com> wrote in message
> news:<qra_9.90042$_s4.40889@rwcrnsc54>...
> > > "Michael Martin" wrote:
> > > > > ...and thus we're back to the big M.
> > > >
> > > > You don't miss a beat, do you, snail?
> > >
> > > He's rather handy.
> > >
> > > -Breezy
> >
> > Oh, not THIS jerk again.
>
> Yeah, we've pounded this into the ground, haven't we?
What if you found out your favorite christian artist masturbates?
David Bruce Murray
"Peter T. Chattaway" <pet...@interchange.ubc.ca> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.21.03012...@inch.interchange.ubc.ca...
> On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, David Bruce Murray wrote:
> : There are nudists and then there are nudists who promote nudism.
>
> I think the problem here is that you seem to have conflated the two in
> your earlier posts, i.e. you seem to think nudism is, by definition,
> exhibitionism and thus a form of promoting nudism, or something.
To clarify . . . my "if it ain't worth showing" comment was a joke. The
follow-up post was serious.
> : Is a group of guys showering together after Phys. Ed. class an
> : exhibition? No, as long as none of them call attention to their nudity.
> : Is a group of people sitting around watching a movie or eating dinner
> : together an exhibition? It certainly is if you have to sent out notices
> : or maintain a website to get people to show up.
>
> So nudism, you are now saying, is *not* exhibitionism if people merely
> happen to hang out in the nude together?
Right. When I go to church for a worship service, it's an exhibition of the
fact that I worship Christ. Same difference. If I'm at a party, and a group
of us get to discussing how God has blessed us and it becomes a worshipful
moment, then that's not an exhibition, in my opinion.
> Or is it automatically
> exhibitionism simply because these people have to let each other know
> about the designated times and places for such gatherings?
Right. Except, you didn't need to put the "or" at the beginning of that
statement, because that is the distinction I was drawing. It probably needs
to go beyond casually saying, "hey, we're having a nude gathering next week"
to be labeled exhibitionism, but Cheef's site is an advertisement for nude
living that's intended for the general public to read. It goes beyond simply
"being" a nudist.
BTW, I'm perfectly willing to accept Cheef's statement at face value that he
doesn't get naked so others can look at him, but I do not accept the idea
that he's just "being" that way.
--
David Bruce Murray / dmur...@NOSPAMrfci.net
---Making hay while the sun shines---
David Bruce Murray
"Cheef" <ch...@cheef.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93133DB941...@207.217.77.21...
> "David Bruce Murray" <dmur...@NOSPAM.rfci.net> wrote in
> news:Yt-dnfsYCOJ...@rfci.net:
>
> > My whole point is that simply "being" as you put it, requires no extra
> > promotion of what you are.
>
> I wasn't referring to "being" in that vague new-agey/pop-psychology way.
Nor was I.
> I simply mean it's about "being nude", not "looking at nude people".
What about "being looked at while nude?" That way, you're "being," while all
the others are free to look. I just don't understand the being nude with a
group of people bit, unless there's some underlying purpose . . . showering,
swimming, looking, etc., and when your event is based on getting naked with
a group of people, it's difficult to take you seriously when you say the
looking doesn't matter one way or the other. Maybe I can believe you when
you say that, but not the whole group of people. Otherwise, the meetings
wouldn't even happen.
I mean, one of the main reasons for going to the beach is to see and/or be
seen. If beach vacation was really only for "getting a tan" as people say,
they can do that in their own backyards. In fact, they usually get a tan
before they go to the beach so they'll look good.
Cheef
> I just don't understand the
> being nude with a group of people bit, unless there's some underlying
> purpose . . . showering, swimming, looking, etc.,
This is where there's a difference in perspective.
You have adopted a perspective which presumes that "clothed" is default
mode and "nude" is something requiring a reason.
I have adopted the opposite perspective and presume that "nude" is
default mode and "clothed" is something requiring a reason. (I don't
ever plan on arc-welding without adequate protection, and you won't
generally catch me outside in the snow without some insulation.)
> and when your event
> is based on getting naked with a group of people, it's difficult to
> take you seriously when you say the looking doesn't matter one way or
> the other. Maybe I can believe you when you say that, but not the
> whole group of people. Otherwise, the meetings wouldn't even happen.
I'm not saying nobody that nobody ever has that as part of their
motivation. However, does it seem all that unusual that people who
share a common interest would also be sociable people? For instance,
people can collect coins alone, but those who enjoy it a lot like to get
together with other folks and talk about it and learn more and also just
be together with other folks with a similar interest. For years I spent
the majority of my free time nude, although not socially. Eventually I
chose too join together with others who enjoyed the same. (That was
probably more information than most people need, but it's relevant to
our conversation.)
> I mean, one of the main reasons for going to the beach is to see
> and/or be seen. If beach vacation was really only for "getting a tan"
> as people say, they can do that in their own backyards. In fact, they
> usually get a tan before they go to the beach so they'll look good.
I avoid most beaches. Swimsuit fashions are way too provocative.
--
visit CHEEF.COM - Your CHEEF source for nudist info
Get NUDIST NEWS! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nudist-news-group
-MIKE-
snail
>I mean, one of the main reasons for going to the beach is to see and/or be
>seen. If beach vacation was really only for "getting a tan" as people say,
>they can do that in their own backyards. In fact, they usually get a tan
>before they go to the beach so they'll look good.
Huh ?? what about cooling down, swimming, surfing, cooling down,
socialising, and of course tanning, particularly for those that
don't have backyards :) Did I mention cooling down ? Having said
that I'm not a beach person...don't like the sand.
Though I note you refer to "beach vacation"...does that mean that
where you are, going to the beach involves a multiday trip ? or
does it also refer to just popping down to the beach before or
after work ? on the weekend ?
Breezy
> Oh, not THIS jerk again.
Hey watch it, I'm rather sensitive and I might just explode.
-Breezy
Breezy
> What if you found out your favorite christian artist masturbates?
I'd say, "gee Sandy, now I know how you hit all those high notes."
-Breezy
wkuswifty
I would ask if I could give them a hand.
David Bruce Murray
> Though I note you refer to "beach vacation"...does that mean that
> where you are, going to the beach involves a multiday trip ? or
> does it also refer to just popping down to the beach before or
> after work ? on the weekend ?
The only local beach in our area is at a lake, so I had a multi-day trip to
the ocean in mind when I mentioned a "beach vacation."