Nine Inch Nails <- Anti-Christian Band
bur...@newton.hartwick.edu
I couldn't believe some of the lyrics. This band is apparently quite pop-
ular too. There was one song called _Heresy_ which truly lived up to it's
name. Some of the words just blew me away. such as:
"Your God is dead, and no one cares, If there is a Hell, I'll see you there."
I cannot believe such music is even allowed to be sold. I then realised
that the bands name was probably a reference to the nails used to crucify
Jesus on the Cross. I actually own their earlier album called 'Pretty Hate
Machine' but it is entirely different, hardly even an obscenity. Is anti-
Christian music this popular? Has it been increasing? What can we do?
With Faith-
Jake
Ara
bur...@newton.hartwick.edu wrote:
> Someone at my school played a CD for me by the band Nine Inch Nails and
> I couldn't believe some of the lyrics. This band is apparently quite pop-
> ular too.
Actually, I've heard that this album is kind of hard to listen to, and so
may not be that popular.
There was one song called _Heresy_ which truly lived up to it's
> name. Some of the words just blew me away. such as:
> "Your God is dead, and no one cares, If there is a Hell, I'll see you there."
> I cannot believe such music is even allowed to be sold.
I REALLY hope you're not suggesting censorship based on religious
orientation...that's a dangerous thing, my friend, and can backlash any
time.
I then realised
> that the bands name was probably a reference to the nails used to crucify
> Jesus on the Cross.
I don't think so...I think you're reading into the name WAY too much.
I actually own their earlier album called 'Pretty Hate
> Machine' but it is entirely different, hardly even an obscenity.
Hardly an obscenity? Maybe not in vocabulary, but listen to the lyrics
HOLISTICALLY..e.g. of Head Like a Hole. (I hate NIN, but I've heard this
song about a million times on the radio.)
Is anti-
> Christian music this popular? Has it been increasing? What can we do?
Have you heard of Soundgarden? Black Sabbath? Ozzy Ozbourne? Sepultura,
Carcass, Slayer, etc? And "Dear God" by XTC? Blasphemous Rumours and
Personal Jesus by Depeche (com)Mode? I mean, come on, this stuff has been
popular for YEEEERS!
IMO, the most one can do is produce high-quality Christian music, to
beat out this other crap. (Hey, I'm workin' on it,...I know a punk song
where the guy is reading (not singing) from the more poetic parts of I Cor
13, while the overdriven guitar is all quickly picked muted chords and the
quickly picked bass is carrying the melody...then, during the chorus, he
sings with a VENGEANCE!! It may SOUND cheesy, but it DRIVES!!!!
.....Anyway, my point being that we need to provide music (like the
aforementioned, IMO) with good lyrics that's expressive and powerful, but
with POSITIVE messages.)
As for NIN being crap, I could have told you that years ago! :) ;)
Ok, later, dear sisters and brothers.
Love,
Ara
mattman
>From: bur...@newton.hartwick.edu
>Subject: Nine Inch Nails <- Anti-Christian Band
>Date: 14 May 94 15:01:24 -0500
>With Faith-
>Jake
Hardly an obscenity? PHM definitely has its share, I thought. Perhaps not
excessive, though. It also has its share of anti-religious sentiment. "
Terrible Lie" is the best example of this. Still, I'll grant you that The
Downward Spiral, which is probably the album you heard, is much, MUCH
angrier than the last two. Anyway, industrial music seems to be black and
white as far as religion is concerned. Industrial musicians are either
Christian, (Mortal, COD, etc.) or strongly anti-christian (NIN, Ministry)
There is very little ground. I can see how this would be. Secular
industrial music, its artists, and its fans, in GENERAL (please don't flame
me for this) are the most bitter and hate-filled music I've seen yet. If
you don't believe me, just read rec.music.industrial next time someone from
here tries to get on and tell them how great Mortal is. To put it mildly,
the witness is greeted with less than open arms.
Still, this doesn't mean we shouldn't try. Christ can reach even the
blackest of hearts.
-mattman
P.S. speaking of industrial, have you heard
the Mortal track on Brow Beat? absolutely
stunning!
mattman
>From: st00...@brownvm.brown.edu (Ara)
>Subject: Re: Nine Inch Nails <- Anti-Christian Band
>Date: 15 May 1994 10:07:16 GMT
>In article <1994May14....@newton.hartwick.edu>,
>bur...@newton.hartwick.edu wrote:
>> Someone at my school played a CD for me by the band Nine Inch Nails and
>> I couldn't believe some of the lyrics. This band is apparently quite pop-
>> ular too.
>Actually, I've heard that this album is kind of hard to listen to, and so
>may not be that popular.
Opinions are divided. Industrial fans tend to say that this album isn't
nearly as good as other NIN stuff. However, knowing industrial types, it's
probably not because the lyrics are too harsh. Critics, on the other hand,
are praising the album to no end. Rolling Stone gave it four stars. (Of
course, Rolling Stone gave Chagall Guevara a sprkling review, and look
where it got them.)
> There was one song called _Heresy_ which truly lived up to it's
>> name. Some of the words just blew me away. such as:
>> "Your God is dead, and no one cares, If there is a Hell, I'll see you there."
>> I cannot believe such music is even allowed to be sold.
>I REALLY hope you're not suggesting censorship based on religious
>orientation...that's a dangerous thing, my friend, and can backlash any
>time.
Must agree here. As long as religious music can be made, so can anti-
religious music.
> I then realised
>> that the bands name was probably a reference to the nails used to crucify
>> Jesus on the Cross.
>I don't think so...I think you're reading into the name WAY too much.
Not necessarily...I've heard several translations on their name, and this
one is just as or more likely than any others. And the nails used in Roman
crucifixion WERE nine inches long...
just some more thoughts...
-mattman
ALAN T WILLCOX
> >> that the bands name was probably a reference to the nails used to crucify
> >> Jesus on the Cross.
>
> >I don't think so...I think you're reading into the name WAY too much.
>
> Not necessarily...I've heard several translations on their name, and this
> one is just as or more likely than any others. And the nails used in Roman
> crucifixion WERE nine inches long...
I always thought their name was a phallic reference, but maybe I just have
a dirty mind.
Al.
Dennis Stalnaker
: Someone at my school played a CD for me by the band Nine Inch Nails and
Anti-Christian music isn't very popular until you start getting into punk
subculture and Thrash. Groups like Deicide only write anti-christian
songs such as 'Behead the Nazerene'. I know this won't make me too
popular on this group, but happen to like a band that goes by the name of
'Christian Death'. As for what WE can do, go out and talk to the people
who listen to it. Sure, they may have green hair, shaved heads, and
earings in many places where it hurts just to look at, but someone has to
reach out to these people rather than being afraid of them.
--
sol...@cscns.com Mountains of Regret crashing into me
Dennis Stalnaker Towering over me and weighing me down...
Colorado Springs -Mortal 1991-1994
Matthew F. McCabe
concerned for Trent Reznor? One only needs to listen to "the downward
spiral" to get a picture of a very angry, bitter, hurt, and hateful man.
If Reznor's lyrics truly represent who he is, he is very a sick and
twisted person (IMOP). He needs Jesus--just as much as we (I) do.
Frankly, I am puzzled by Trent Reznor. Is his anger real or a facade?
Reading Keyboard Magazines' (March 1994) interview with him, paints quite
a different picture than his lyrics. He comes across as being quite "sane"
and "rational"--at least as far as musicians go (it's OK, I'm a
musician!). It is obvious that Reznor has a very good grasp on technology
and how to use/abuse it to create NIN, but *who* is he?
Any ideas? (sorry about the "dated" sig)
--
*****************************************************************************
* Matt McCabe.....................................finley@ecst.csuchico.edu *
* Able Cain live, May 14, Pilgrim's Cafe (Sacramento, CA) *
*****************************************************************************
PLAtypus
>I couldn't believe some of the lyrics. This band is apparently quite pop-
>ular too. There was one song called _Heresy_ which truly lived up to it's
>name. Some of the words just blew me away. such as:
>"Your God is dead, and no one cares, If there is a Hell, I'll see you there."
At least he named the song aptly and knew that what he is saying is
heretical. And I don't have the rest of the song here, and I don't
know if he's writing this on feelings due to one occassion or if he
always feels this way, but early in my Christian walk, there were alot
of times that I felt like God was dead and that no one cared and that
if there was a hell that I would be there, especially for the thoughts
I was having right at that moment. So I can relate to where Trent
(the man behind NIN) is coming from. Granted that doesn't mean it's
ok, but I think one should look at this from all angles, and I'm
going to keep both the angle you pointed out and this angle in mind
when I think of NIN and someone asks me for an opinion on them. I
guess all I want to say is that I see this as a guy searching, and that's
better than someone who doesn't care if God exists or not.
>I actually own their earlier album called 'Pretty Hate
>Machine' but it is entirely different, hardly even an obscenity. Is anti-
>Christian music this popular? Has it been increasing? What can we do?
I see _PHM_ as pretty much just a milder version of _Downward Spiral_.
"Terrible Lie" and a few of the other songs show that same searching
for God, but Trent isn't finding God. And now he's still searching
for God and still not finding God, so of course he's going to be
expressing even more anger. So once again, this isn't anti-Christian,
it's just searching (IMO). As for the other questions, yes
anti-Christian music is popular among some people, but if it's on
Top 40 it's only because people who listen to Top 40 don't care about
lyrics. Searching music is also popular among some groups of people,
usually less likely to accepted by the hoi polloi though. As far as
what we can do about both of these types of music, first realize
that it'll always be there until the end of the world. Second, it's
always best to understand where someone's coming from before you try
to change them, so that would be a good first step. Third, pray, and
especially ask for the Holy Spirit to speak through you when you talk
with people who like this music. Sorry if some of this didn't come out
quite right, but it's finals time. Please give me the benefit of the
doubt and don't flame too hard, besides I'm losing net access on Tuesday,
so I'm not likely to respond anyway. Have a nice summer, and enjoy
the searching music of NIN! (Hee hee ha ha hee hee ha ha). Why do I
do this?
Peace and revelations,
PLAtypus
Philippians 4:7
Orb
fin...@ecst.csuchico.edu writes:
>
>Frankly, I am puzzled by Trent Reznor. Is his anger real or a facade?
>Reading Keyboard Magazines' (March 1994) interview with him, paints quite
>a different picture than his lyrics. He comes across as being quite
"sane"
>and "rational"--at least as far as musicians go (it's OK, I'm a
>musician!). It is obvious that Reznor has a very good grasp on
technology
>and how to use/abuse it to create NIN, but *who* is he?
Okay, I'm making myself flame-bait with this - but I like NIN and I like
the new album...
I've read and seen several interviews with him and in almost all the
interviews, they've asked about the imagery and lyrics on his albums. He
says that he tries to evoke characters and moods like these for the
songs. They aren't necessarily expressing what he's feeling at the
moment, but more of a dramatic/horror type thing. Before everyone starts
flaming me and saying "Well, how can you listen to that?", I consider it
to be very similar to reading Dean Koontz or Steven King novels. They
both write about twisted deviant characters extensively.
For the record - I enjoy the musical aspects of NIN's work. For the most
part I don't enjoy the lyrics. Frankly, I've yet to find a Christian
industrial band that I think is up to par with NIN musically. I like
Mortal, Deitiphobia, GlobalWaveSystem, X-Propagation and all of that, but
I enjoy the music of NIN more.
Okay, flame me... :) I know there are some people who can't wait...
Matthew F. McCabe
Orb <Leve...@gamma.is.tcu.edu> wrote:
>
>I've read and seen several interviews with him and in almost all the
>interviews, they've asked about the imagery and lyrics on his albums. He
>says that he tries to evoke characters and moods like these for the
>songs. They aren't necessarily expressing what he's feeling at the
>moment, but more of a dramatic/horror type thing. Before everyone starts
>flaming me and saying "Well, how can you listen to that?", I consider it
>to be very similar to reading Dean Koontz or Steven King novels. They
>both write about twisted deviant characters extensively.
>
>For the record - I enjoy the musical aspects of NIN's work. For the most
>part I don't enjoy the lyrics. Frankly, I've yet to find a Christian
>industrial band that I think is up to par with NIN musically. I like
>Mortal, Deitiphobia, GlobalWaveSystem, X-Propagation and all of that, but
>I enjoy the music of NIN more.
>
I enjoy NIN also. I didn't have the guts to mention it in my first
post...I applaud your honesty.
I agree that the Christian industrial bands just aren't up to NIN's
level. It's the difference between being an innovator and a follower.
Renzor definitely has a *sound* that is happening.
Just for the record: Reznors lyrics make me sick, but his soundscape
amazes and inspires me! I'm glad to hear that Reznors lyrics are
fiction, although I have trouble believing that he can completely divorce
himself from his true feeling my writing.
--
Matt McCabe... Able Cain... fin...@ecst.csuchico.edu...
Tony Boyd
(Matthew F. McCabe) writes:
>Reznors lyrics make me sick, but his soundscape amazes and inspires me! I'm
>glad to hear that Reznors lyrics are fiction
I doubt that his lyrics are fiction. But I don't think he has anything against
you or me being Christians. In an article he did with Musician Magazine, he
talked about how much he hates his old record label. They pushed him to go
mainstream, and so he rebelled and went hardcore. He was even upset that they
tried to market NIN to teens (by putting ads in teen magazines) because he
wanted NIN to be a college/adult band. He talked about how much he hates
authority & being told what to do. It enrages him. And so I think some of
that rage for his old label spills over to "The Church" and "The Government"
and all such institutions.
So I think he is angry with the *establishment* of religion, not with
Christians themselves.
-Tony Boyd/tony...@aol.com
Todd Cox
Livin' easy, livin' free
Season ticket on a one-way ride.
Asking nothing, leave me be,
I'm taking everything in my stride.
Don't need reason, don't need rhyme,
Ain't nothin' that I'll ever do.
Going down, for a time
All my friends are gonna be there too.
I'm on the Highway to Hell,
the Highway to Hell
the Highway to Hell
the Highway to Hell
No stopsigns, no speed limits
Nobody's gonna slow me down.
Take the wheel, gonna spin it,
Nobody's gonna mess me around.
I paid Satan, paid my dues,
Playin' in a rockin' band.
Hey Mama, look at me,
I'm on my way to the Promised Land!
I'm on the Highway to Hell,
the Highway to Hell
the Highway to Hell
the Highway to Hell
And I'm going down,
All the way...
On the Highway to Hell
-AC/DC, circa late 1970's
Welcome to the real world, Jake. Anti-Christian lyrics are as old as music
itself. Incidentally, AC/DC's lead singer at that time (Bon Scott) went on to
overdose and died. I hope he's having fun down there. I'm just surprised that
you think every non-Christian should listen to "uplifting" music. People want
to question the existence of God. It's inherent in the nature of man to
question where we came from. Is it blasphemy to question something you're not
sure you believe in? Only by questioning one's faith can one truly believe.
-Words to live by.
tc
Todd L. Cox / "We tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing, a wonderful
method because it can create the illusion of progress while
producing confusion, inefficiency and demoralization. " - Roman
satirist Gaius Petronius, in 65 A.D.
Aaron Stark
>From: fin...@ecst.csuchico.edu (Matthew F. McCabe)
>Subject: Re: Nine Inch Nails <- Anti-Christian Band
>Interesting discussion about NIN. My question is this: is anyone
>concerned for Trent Reznor? One only needs to listen to "the downward
>spiral" to get a picture of a very angry, bitter, hurt, and hateful man.
>If Reznor's lyrics truly represent who he is, he is very a sick and
>twisted person (IMOP). He needs Jesus--just as much as we (I) do.
>Frankly, I am puzzled by Trent Reznor. Is his anger real or a facade?
>Reading Keyboard Magazines' (March 1994) interview with him, paints quite
>a different picture than his lyrics. He comes across as being quite "sane"
>and "rational"--at least as far as musicians go (it's OK, I'm a
>musician!). It is obvious that Reznor has a very good grasp on technology
>and how to use/abuse it to create NIN, but *who* is he?
Yes, Trent Reznor certainly is an enigma. I hope his music is not a shallow
facade, but I've often wondered. Clearly TDS documents a search for
meaning in life, what some people lable as anti-Christian I would say is
not so much against Christianity as it is disappointed with it. Perhaps
this is an valid inditement against modern day Christianity. His view of
man's natural depravity certainly is in line with Romans, and rationally his
conclusion certainly follows, with out the hope of God suicide is probably a
good solution. In my mind, I think the Reznor we see in TDS is akin to the
Steppenwolf of Herman Hesse. We all need Jesus, some of us don't have to
search as hard as others, but remeber the one who is forgiven less is often
less thankfull.
Tony Brown
> ...................
> >-Tony Boyd/tony...@aol.com
> > > OH NO! Another Tony B ......
>
But there's only one tony_b :-)
Mr. Noise
Ara <st00...@brownvm.brown.edu> wrote:
> Is anti-
>> Christian music this popular? Has it been increasing? What can we do?
>
>Have you heard of Soundgarden? Black Sabbath? Ozzy Ozbourne? Sepultura,
>Carcass, Slayer, etc? And "Dear God" by XTC? Blasphemous Rumours and
>Personal Jesus by Depeche (com)Mode? I mean, come on, this stuff has been
>popular for YEEEERS!
That's funny, Soundgarden is one my favorite bands & I like the old Black
Sabbath with Ozzy, too. For that matter, most of XTC's stuff & Depeche
Mode's "Blasphemous Rumours" is okay, too. Of course these people aren't
Christians, but are we really listening to the same Black Sabbath albums if
you find them actively anti-Christian? Check out _Masters of Reality_
sometime, for example. What has Soundgarden written that has you in a tizzy?
They've written a lot of lyrics that have something to say, IMHO. "Blasphemous
Rumours"? Well, maybe you know more about them than I, but that song always
struck me as a sincere lament along the lines of 'I'd really like to believe
in this God fellow, guys, but if there's a God, why is there so much pain in
the world?' That's a question that demands to be answered with the Gospel, no
question, but I didn't find it hateful. Finally, as for XTC, _Mummer_ in
particular really struck a chord with me. When I was fifteen I got rid of
almost all of my 'secular' music, but _Mummer_ was one of the two albums I
kept!
I haven't heard "Personal Jesus", so I can't really comment.
Take, as an example, "The Day I Tried to Live", from Soundgarden's latest.
Here's an excerpt:
...Words you say never seem
to live up to the ones
inside your head
tThe lives we make
never seem to get us anywhere
but dead
The day I tried to live
I wallowed in the blood and mud with
all the other pigs
...And I learned that I was a liar
just like you.
This sounds to me like someone who needs to know Christ pretty badly, & knows
it. Sure, he doesn't think Christ is the Answer to his problems, but he is
awake to his situation--to the falleness of man & his need for a Saviour, if
only he could find one. You may think that sort of depressing song is bad.
It's not; it's the best pre-evangelism you could ask for.
Is the answer, as you suggest, to simply produce great Christian music? Well,
we need someone giving the Answer, too, of course. But if it turns into some
kind of cheerleading for God feel-good session, it hasn't helped the *non*-
believer at all. I guess that's one of the reasons I think so highly of
Mark Heard's lyrics: he gave the Answer, but he also gave the reason & asked
the questions.
--
Mr. Noise <mrn...@econs.umass.edu> Sea of Noise +1-203-886-1441
UMASS-Amherst 8^>= "Shop as usual & avoid panic buying."
Remember: If codes are outlawed, only outlaws will have codes.
Burrell Craig Neil
>In article <st003936-1...@cluster-146.cluster.brown.edu>,
>Ara <st00...@brownvm.brown.edu> wrote:
>
>That's funny, Soundgarden is one my favorite bands
>Here's an excerpt:
>
>...Words you say never seem
>to live up to the ones
>inside your head
>tThe lives we make
>never seem to get us anywhere
>but dead
>
>The day I tried to live
>I wallowed in the blood and mud with
>all the other pigs
>
>...And I learned that I was a liar
>just like you.
>
>This sounds to me like someone who needs to know Christ pretty badly, & knows
>it. Sure, he doesn't think Christ is the Answer to his problems, but he is
>awake to his situation--to the falleness of man & his need for a Saviour, if
>only he could find one. You may think that sort of depressing song is bad.
>It's not; it's the best pre-evangelism you could ask for.
I would agree with you that Chris Cornell writes some thought provoking lyrics,
although I have a tough time deciding if he's angry at God or if he's angry
at us, the Church, for hypocrisy, etc. For instance, songs like 'Holy Water'
and 'Jesus Christ Pose' seem to take a pretty defiant stance towards the
person of Jesus Christ, while 'Wooden Jesus' and 'Your Savior' (off the
Temple of the Dog album) seem to be directed towards Christians.
What do you think?
Anyway, I suppose I'll continue to listen to his music becuase it
is thought provoking and also, the tunes are incredible.
Craig Burrell
Mr. Noise
Burrell Craig Neil <cs9...@assn218.cs.ualberta.ca> wrote:
>I would agree with you that Chris Cornell writes some thought provoking lyrics,
>although I have a tough time deciding if he's angry at God or if he's angry
>at us, the Church, for hypocrisy, etc. For instance, songs like 'Holy Water'
>and 'Jesus Christ Pose' seem to take a pretty defiant stance towards the
>person of Jesus Christ, while 'Wooden Jesus' and 'Your Savior' (off the
>Temple of the Dog album) seem to be directed towards Christians.
> What do you think?
Temple of the Dog? Is that a Soundgarden album? I have Ultramega OK, Louder
than Love, Badmotorfinger, & Superunknown & I thought that was all they had
done...am I missing one? Since the last two songs you listed are on this
T.o.t.D. album, maybe that explains our different impressions?
As for "Jesus Christ Pose", I don't see that as a song about Christianity at
all. "Holy Water", OTOH, might be about a televangelist or something, I
suppose. I guess I don't really know what to make of it.
At any rate, if Cornell is angry with anyone (maybe he's angry with himself?),
I suppose it would be hypocrites. If he 'can't see the forest for the trees'
perhaps he has the failings of some Christians confused with the truth of
Christianity. I don't know. I suspect that, like many knee-jerk critics, he
hasn't considered it very deeply. As Chesterton said of those who railed
against the Church in his day, they are too close to the Church to have any
perspective on the matter: they aren't free to believe but they're not free
to leave off not believing... (Chesterton said it much better, of course,
in _The Everlasting Man_.)
Tony Bowden
OH NO! Another Tony B ......
Tony
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tony Bowden, Belfast, N Ireland | I have discovered a truly marvelous flaw
dej...@athmail1.causeway.qub.ac.uk | in Wiles' proof of Fermat's last theorem
(or) u891...@qub.ac.uk | which unfortunately this 4 line .sig is
(or) aj...@yfn.ysu.edu | not large enough to contain.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Vicki Robinson is a Perl-using masonic turkey, and a Kibo wannabe, who makes
ARMM look like NAMBLA." - Darren Aitcheson (flumox wannabe)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Burrell Craig Neil
>In article <2rgck3$d...@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca>,
>Burrell Craig Neil <cs9...@assn218.cs.ualberta.ca> wrote:
>>'Wooden Jesus' and 'Your Savior' (off the
>>Temple of the Dog album) seem to be directed towards Christians.
>> What do you think?
>
>Temple of the Dog? Is that a Soundgarden album?
Temple of the Dog was an album put out following the death of the vocalist
of Mother Love Bone. The band is fronted by Chris Cornell, who wrote many
of the lyrics, and he is backed up by (I believe) Stone Gossard and Jeff
Ament who at that time were in Mother Love Bone ( and are now of course
in Pearl Jam ). It's really a pretty good album; the sound is much
thinner than that on a Soundgarden album and it allows Chris the room to
express some of the emotions which don`t come through well on his
regular songs. One of the highlights is a `duet' with Eddie Vedder on a tune
called 'Hunger Strike'.
The album is a result of the band members trying to deal with
the death of their friend, and as it says in the album liner, it is music
for the sake of making music. It's really a great experience, and as you
seem to be a big Soundgarden fan, I'd recommend it.
By the way, I've been thinking some more about what I said in the
last post. Upon futher reflection, 'Wooden Jesus' seems to be an excellent
criticism of America`s, and in particular TV evangelist`s, obsession
with materialism. I can't help but compare it to DA's 'Gloryhound'.
Craig Burrell
I don't mind stealing bread
From the mouths of decadence
But I can't feed on the powerless
When my cups already overfilled
But it's on the table
The fire's cooking
And they're farming babies
The slaves are all working
The blood is on the table
The mouths are choking
But I'm going hungry
-Hunger Strike
Chris Cornell
Jeroen J-W Tiggelman
> Is anti-
>> Christian music this popular? Has it been increasing? What can we do?
>
>Have you heard of Soundgarden? Black Sabbath? Ozzy Ozbourne? Sepultura,
>Carcass, Slayer, etc? And "Dear God" by XTC? Blasphemous Rumours and
>Personal Jesus by Depeche (com)Mode? I mean, come on, this stuff has been
>popular for YEEEERS!
Are you indeed saying that all this is ANTIchristian? I don't think so.
Carcass for instance on "Heartwork" is strongly directed against 'Christianity'
as it should not be, against the *icons* without meaning, people who don't
understand, etc. and yes, in this context they write "Your God is dead".
I don't know "Personal Jesus", but "Blaspemous rumours" I think is a song
expressing nonunderstanding how God can exist and allow all sorts of tragic
things - like this girl hit by car after she's found JC. I would say thought
provoking, but not ANTIchristian.
--
--Jeroen-----------------------------------------------------------
Tigg...@StPC.WI.LeidenUniv.NL JTig...@StHP.WI.LeidenUniv.NL
00san...@bsuvc.bsu.edu
(Jeroen J-W Tiggelman) writes:
> In article <st003936-1...@cluster-146.cluster.brown.edu>,
> Ara <st00...@brownvm.brown.edu> wrote:
>>In article <1994May14....@newton.hartwick.edu>,
>>bur...@newton.hartwick.edu wrote:
(edited for space...)
>> Is anti-
>>> Christian music this popular? Has it been increasing? What can we do?
>>
>>Have you heard of Soundgarden? Black Sabbath? Ozzy Ozbourne? Sepultura,
>>Carcass, Slayer, etc? And "Dear God" by XTC? Blasphemous Rumours and
>>Personal Jesus by Depeche (com)Mode? I mean, come on, this stuff has been
>>popular for YEEEERS!
> I don't know "Personal Jesus", but "Blaspemous rumours" I think is a song
> expressing nonunderstanding how God can exist and allow all sorts of tragic
> things - like this girl hit by car after she's found JC. I would say thought
> provoking, but not ANTIchristian.
>
> --Jeroen-----------------------------------------------------------
> Tigg...@StPC.WI.LeidenUniv.NL JTig...@StHP.WI.LeidenUniv.NL
Wait... you mean that 'thought-provoking' and 'anti-christian' aren't the
SAME THING??
(Sometimes, I just crack myself up...)
=== Scott Naylor - Ball State University, University Computing Services
(whose opinion is that my opinion is not necessarily their opinion)
I often want to ask why God allows suffering, starvation, oppression,
and injustice. I don't, though, because I'm afraid God might ask me.
Jeroen J-W Tiggelman
<00san...@bsuvc.bsu.edu> wrote:
>In article <2rtd1q$a...@nic.wi.leidenuniv.nl>, jtig...@hupnos.wi.leidenuniv.nl
>(Jeroen J-W Tiggelman) writes:
>> I don't know "Personal Jesus", but "Blaspemous rumours" I think is a song
>> expressing nonunderstanding how God can exist and allow all sorts of tragic
>> things - like this girl hit by car after she's found JC. I would say thought
>> provoking, but not ANTIchristian.
>
>Wait... you mean that 'thought-provoking' and 'anti-christian' aren't the
>SAME THING??
Yes, of course. That was a joke, I guess?
>(Sometimes, I just crack myself up...)
>
>=== Scott Naylor - Ball State University, University Computing Services
> (whose opinion is that my opinion is not necessarily their opinion)
>
> I often want to ask why God allows suffering, starvation, oppression,
> and injustice. I don't, though, because I'm afraid God might ask me.
I like that attitude, but I will *never* pronounce myself against wondering.
The question deserves thinking about; how can you serve God, if you don't
understand what He wants from you? Isn't understanding the key to the hearts
of those who don't believe?
I really hope you were joking..
--
--Jeroen-----------------------------------------------------------
Tigg...@StPC.WI.LeidenUniv.NL JTig...@StHP.WI.LeidenUniv.NL
00san...@bsuvc.bsu.edu
(Jeroen J-W Tiggelman) writes:
> In article <1994May25.1...@bsuvc.bsu.edu>,
> <00san...@bsuvc.bsu.edu> wrote:
>>In article <2rtd1q$a...@nic.wi.leidenuniv.nl>, jtig...@hupnos.wi.leidenuniv.nl
>>(Jeroen J-W Tiggelman) writes:
>>> I don't know "Personal Jesus", but "Blaspemous rumours" I think is a song
>>> expressing nonunderstanding how God can exist and allow all sorts of tragic
>>> things - like this girl hit by car after she's found JC. I would say thought
>>> provoking, but not ANTIchristian.
>>Wait... you mean that 'thought-provoking' and 'anti-christian' aren't the
>>SAME THING??
> Yes, of course. That was a joke, I guess?
>>(Sometimes, I just crack myself up...)
>>
>>=== Scott Naylor - Ball State University, University Computing Services
>> (whose opinion is that my opinion is not necessarily their opinion)
>>
>> I often want to ask why God allows suffering, starvation, oppression,
>> and injustice. I don't, though, because I'm afraid God might ask me.
> I like that attitude, but I will *never* pronounce myself against wondering.
> The question deserves thinking about; how can you serve God, if you don't
> understand what He wants from you? Isn't understanding the key to the hearts
> of those who don't believe?
>
> I really hope you were joking..
>
> --Jeroen-----------------------------------------------------------
> Tigg...@StPC.WI.LeidenUniv.NL JTig...@StHP.WI.LeidenUniv.NL
I appreciate your post and concern, but it's just more thought provocation.
It's designed to counter the kind of humanistic arrogance that would suppose
that we ought to blame God for allowing such things in the world when we are
plainly capable of dealing with them ourselves.
So, it would have been strange if I had actually meant that thought-provocation
was anti-christian, and then made such a statement in my .sig file.
And I'm afraid at this point that we've gone on a bit from the original post...
