Genesis: Christian, Secular, Crossover?
LAJAndy
The song went something like "I talk with Jesus everyday" or something
like that. I assume this is a secular group, but technically so is Amy
Grant and some others. Is Genesis worth checking out or should I just
pretend I didn't hear them?
E-mail me if you'd like, especially since job stress has taken over a
large part of my life right now; I probably won't be able to get back to
the USENET for a couple of weeks!
Andy
Jerry B. Ray
>OK, I heard a song on the radio the other day by a group called Genesis.
>The song went something like "I talk with Jesus everyday" or something
>like that.
That song was "Jesus, He Knows Me" and was basically a satiric shot at
crooked televangelists.
>I assume this is a secular group, but technically so is Amy
>Grant and some others. Is Genesis worth checking out or should I just
>pretend I didn't hear them?
Surely you've heard of Genesis... They started in the 70's with
Peter Gabriel as their singer, then when he left, Phil Collins took
over as singer. I don't know that their name implies any sort of
"Christian connection," but I have heard that some of their early
stuff (along with early Gabriel solo stuff) had some "Christian stuff"
in it. Personally, I really enjoy their music, particularly the
first 4 or so albums they recorded with Collins as singer. Their last
couple have gone too far pop for my tastes.
I don't find anything objectionable in their music-they seem to be
pretty neutral. If you liked the song musically, check out some
of their other stuff. If you're looking for another "Christian in
secular music" a la Amy or MWS, maybe you should look elsewhere.
JRjr
--
'Summer's going fast, nights growing colder
Children growing up, old friends growing older
The innocence slips away...'--Rush, Time Stand Still
##### vap...@prism.gatech.EDU ######## Jerry B. Ray, Jr. ################
John M Cho
: OK, I heard a song on the radio the other day by a group called Genesis.
: Andy
Actualy, I've heard that in the Gabriel days, they had some pretty
blatant Christian lyrics... Not sure what that means... But I seem
to recall one friend of mine talking about a Genesis song (when
Peter Gabriel was there) talking about Jesus and his death and
resurrection... Maybe some hard-cord Genesis fan can clear the air.
John
CHRIS LESHER
evangelists. If you saw the video you'd know that...it's pretty blatant.
Chris Lesher
cle...@toltec.astate.edu
Tree
M Cho) wrote:
What LAJAndy probably heard was "Jesus, He Knows Me," by a much more
modern Genesis than those glorious Gabriel days. This song, on their most
recent "We Can't Dance" album, is more or less about corruption and
hypocricy in the televangelist world (with lyrics like "You buy a piece of
heaven, if you buy a piece of me," etc...). If you're really not into
listening to non-christian music, then they're probably not for you. The
early stuff, though. Wow.
Tree
--
"...for it is one thing to see the land of peace from a wooded ridge...and another to tread the road that leads to it."
-St. Augustine, Confessions, VII, xxi
Ken Stitzel
: Actualy, I've heard that in the Gabriel days, they had some pretty
: blatant Christian lyrics... Not sure what that means... But I seem
: to recall one friend of mine talking about a Genesis song (when
: Peter Gabriel was there) talking about Jesus and his death and
: resurrection... Maybe some hard-cord Genesis fan can clear the air.
I don't know about their early days or Gabriel's "religious orientation"
but Mike Rutherford was (is?) their guitarist. He cut some some albums
with his own group, Mike and the Mechanics. You probably remember
"The Living Years", a very moving song about his relationship with
his father. (Came out in 1989, I believe.) Anyway, on that CD, titled
"The Living Years" is a song called (I think) I Believe. It has a
lyric that goes something like "I believe in Jesus Christ, Gods only
Son..." The song lists all the things the writer believes in,
even though he could be considered a fool for some of them. (But of
course we're "fools in the eyes of the world" to believe....)
Ken (a non-HP believer) Stitzel
sti...@lvld.hp.com
Hans Paal
>... But I seem
>to recall one friend of mine talking about a Genesis song (when
>Peter Gabriel was there) talking about Jesus and his death and
>resurrection... Maybe some hard-cord Genesis fan can clear the air.
> John
Hmmm... maybe 'Man Of Our Times'? I haven't listened to Genesisb in a
while, but I do remember a song like that... old Genesis was very close to
Christian lyrics but their new stuff is a little off... I really think you
don't have anything yto worry about listening to them, but the song you
quoted... well it knocks on televangelism, and I have heard of some people
being offended by it; but to each his own. If you do like their music, check
out the old stuff (which is what I assiume everyone else is saying!), I like
the old stuff the best, especially the first few years with Phil Collins as
lead vocalist. Well, take care, all, and may God Bless!
Merry Christmas To All!
Keep Looking Up!
Hans G. Paal
hgp...@psuvm.psu.edu
hgp...@psu.edu
Rob Martino
>In article <3cn07j$i...@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu>, pol...@wam.umd.edu (John
>M Cho) wrote:
>
>> LAJAndy (laj...@aol.com) wrote:
>> : OK, I heard a song on the radio the other day by a group called Genesis.
>> : The song went something like "I talk with Jesus everyday" or something
>> : like that. I assume this is a secular group, but technically so is Amy
>> : Grant and some others. Is Genesis worth checking out or should I just
>> : pretend I didn't hear them?
>> : E-mail me if you'd like, especially since job stress has taken over a
>> : large part of my life right now; I probably won't be able to get back to
>> : the USENET for a couple of weeks!
>>
>> : Andy
>>
>> Actualy, I've heard that in the Gabriel days, they had some pretty
>> blatant Christian lyrics... Not sure what that means... But I seem
>> to recall one friend of mine talking about a Genesis song (when
>> Peter Gabriel was there) talking about Jesus and his death and
>> resurrection... Maybe some hard-cord Genesis fan can clear the air.
>>
>> John
I think you are referring to the 24 minute long song Supper's Ready.
This is off one of their old albums, Foxtrot, around 1972-3.
There are allusions to Revalation and the "King of Kings" coming to
rule the "New Jerusalem" at the end of the song, but I'm
not sure the message of the song is really Christian, more of
a typical surreal Peter Gabriel epic with a dramatic ending.
I haven't really looked in depth at the lyrics though. In
general Petar Gabriel wrote fantasy/mythical type lyrics that
fit in with the dramatic, classical type rock Genesis did at the time.
> If you're really not into
>listening to non-christian music, then they're probably not for you. The
>early stuff, though. Wow.
>
>Tree
>
You can say that again...WOW!!! Before Steve Hackett left the band in the
early 80s Genesis created some of the most stunning music in rock. The
albums Nursey Cryme, Foxtrot and The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway are
progressive rock masterpieces. The music has the dynamic and
structural quality of classical music and the intensity of rock,
I get goosebumps listening to most of it. The new stuff pales in comparison.
Rob
Paul DuBois
> blatant Christian lyrics... Not sure what that means... But I seem
> to recall one friend of mine talking about a Genesis song (when
> Peter Gabriel was there) talking about Jesus and his death and
> resurrection... Maybe some hard-cord Genesis fan can clear the air.
Artist's license, probably. No Christian (I hope) would write the sort
of filthy trash contained in the story on the liner of Genesis Live.
--
Paul DuBois
dub...@primate.wisc.edu
Jerry B. Ray
>Artist's license, probably. No Christian (I hope) would write the sort
>of filthy trash contained in the story on the liner of Genesis Live.
I'm a bit of a Genesis fan (mostly the stuff soon after Collins took over
as singer), but I'm totally unfamiliar with their Gabriel stuff. Could
you give a bit more info on what, exactly, the "filthy trash" you refer
to is?
Nothing personal, but there aren't but a few people around here who I
take at their word without question in matters like this :-)
Paul DuBois
> In article <3cso2q...@uakari.primate.wisc.edu> dub...@primate.wisc.edu writes:
>>Artist's license, probably. No Christian (I hope) would write the sort
>>of filthy trash contained in the story on the liner of Genesis Live.
>
> I'm a bit of a Genesis fan (mostly the stuff soon after Collins took over
> as singer), but I'm totally unfamiliar with their Gabriel stuff. Could
> you give a bit more info on what, exactly, the "filthy trash" you refer
> to is?
>
> Nothing personal, but there aren't but a few people around here who I
> take at their word without question in matters like this :-)
You can verify what I say by locating a copy of the album in
question. Suffice it to say that it's a bizzare piece of fiction
about a woman unzipping herself, beginning at the vagina. I would
classify it as, um, unedifying. I.e., pornographic.
--
Paul DuBois
dub...@primate.wisc.edu
GT Amateur Radio Club
>> resurrection... Maybe some hard-cord Genesis fan can clear the air.
>Artist's license, probably. No Christian (I hope) would write the sort
>of filthy trash contained in the story on the liner of Genesis Live.
>Paul DuBois
>dub...@primate.wisc.edu
Hey now, I'm a Christian and I must say, while the story in question is a
bi graphic, it isn't nearly as bad as most lyrics you hear today... personally
I'd say that Amy Grant's "Baby Baby" is worse, for pretending to be a Christian-
oriented song.
Still, keep in mind the times. When that was written, the group were young, like
in their late teens/early twenties.... Not that that is an excuse, but I think
that later-day albums haven't had nearly the same level of story telling in
part because the members have grown up a bit. Besides, as I stated in an earlier
post, the music itself is not anti-Christian, and some of it embraces Christian
themes. Please, folks, just because you don't agree entirely with something, do
not assume it has no value... if nothing else, it might clue you in to the
things going on at the time.
Replies to wha...@camelia.mirc.gatech.edu, NOT the account this was posted from!
P.S.- Try to check out "Feeding the Fire", or the Duke album, or the song "One
For The Vine"... they all have themes of interest.
God Bless,
Mike
******************************************************************************
* MIKE "GATOR" WHALEY KD4UGI wha...@camelia.mirc.gatech.edu *
* 1027B Curran Street NW, Atlanta, GA 30318 (404) 881-9580 *
* "Ipecac- isn't that a Genesis album?" --- Joel, MST3K *
******************************************************************************
--
Georgia Tech Amateur Radio Club
eew...@prism.gatech.edu
(404) 894-2971
GT Amateur Radio Club
Yes, but as a Christian and a VERY serious Genesis fan, I have to say that this
is not a slam against Christianity, it is a slam against blatant hypocrisy such
as the PTL scandal. Genesis has always had songs with deeper meanings than the
average pop songs of the day, and in this song I think it should be pointed out
that they DO NOT slam Christianity... only those who twist it around for their
own purposes.
Regarding the history of Genesis (face it, it doensn't even resemble the band
it was up until, say, 1983), there are many religious/spiritual themes from all
the periods of their work. One of the things I like about them is the way they
have not produced much material in the "Geez, this is pretty offensive" cate-
gory. Other songs that may fit this discussion: One For The Vine, from the
Wind and Wuthering album, is about a man who says he is the "chosen one", and
people follow him... then one whose faith is lost slides down the mountain
into a remote area, where the locals follow him just as he once followed the
first guy. It's a good song for making people think. Also, the Duke album has
a God-like undertone... especially in Behind Teh lines and Guide Vocal.
All in all, (and it's hard for me to be entirely objective, I am such a big
fan :) I would say that while Genesis isn't really a "Christian" band by
definition, they certainly aren't bad or offensive, and the lyrics and music
are some of the best ever written. Don't expect "Christian" music from them,
just enjoy it for what it is... some of the most progressive stuff (in its
day) ever made.
Reply to wha...@camelia.mirc.gatech.edu , NOT the account this came from PLEASE!
-Mike
Jerry B. Ray
>Hey now, I'm a Christian and I must say, while the story in question is a
>bi graphic, it isn't nearly as bad as most lyrics you hear today... personally
>oriented song.
This sounds suspiciously like conversations I had with a "Bill Gothardized"
youth who said that Guns N Roses was OK because it didn't pretend to be
Christian, but Petra was evil because they said they were Christians and
played rock and roll.
I like Genesis (mostly the early Phil Collins stuff), and I like Amy. I
haven't seen anything wrong with the Genesis stuff I'm familiar with,
ditto for Amy. "Baby Baby" isn't pretending to be _anything_ but a pop
song. The problem comes from the expectations of the audience.
>Please, folks, just because you don't agree entirely with something, do
>not assume it has no value... if nothing else, it might clue you in to the
>things going on at the time.
Back at'cha. :-)
GT Amateur Radio Club
>In article <mlbutree-151...@old-campus-dynamic-node.net.yale.edu> mlbu...@minerva.cis.yale.edu (Tree) writes:
>>In article <3cn07j$i...@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu>, pol...@wam.umd.edu (John
>>M Cho) wrote:
>>
>>> LAJAndy (laj...@aol.com) wrote:
>>> : OK, I heard a song on the radio the other day by a group called Genesis.
>>> : The song went something like "I talk with Jesus everyday" or something
>I think you are referring to the 24 minute long song Supper's Ready.
>This is off one of their old albums, Foxtrot, around 1972-3.
>There are allusions to Revalation and the "King of Kings" coming to
>rule the "New Jerusalem" at the end of the song, but I'm
>not sure the message of the song is really Christian, more of
>a typical surreal Peter Gabriel epic with a dramatic ending.
Oh Lord, I forgot to mention SR earlier!!! This isn't alluding to Revalations,
it IS Revelations! The back-up story is this: Peter Gabriel, Genesis's manager,
and Pete's wife/girlfriend (can't remember which) were in this odd room at his
parent's, and suddenly, weird things started to happen... it got really cold,
the lights changed, and similar. They looked out on the lawn, and saw the "Six
saintly shrouded men" mentioned in the song, with "A Seventh walks in front,
cross held high in hand". Then, Pete looked at his girlfriend and saw someone
else's face, which led to the lyric of "I swear I saw your face change, it
didn't seem quite right". To this day, all the parties involved swear up and
down that this is true, and no, they were not on drugs at the time. (Or since.)
The majority of the song is from Revelation... any Christians who want to hear
something different from the usual Christian music should check this out... too
bad the ONLY good thing about the new remasters is the sound quality! (But I
won't get started on that, I'll be here all night. :-)
Reply to wha...@camelia.mirc.gatech.edu, not the acount this came from please!
-Mike
"Mr. Genesis"
Andy Whitman
Rob Martino <mar...@gabriel.ctron.com> wrote:
>In article <mlbutree-151...@old-campus-dynamic-node.net.yale.edu> mlbu...@minerva.cis.yale.edu (Tree) writes:
>>In article <3cn07j$i...@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu>, pol...@wam.umd.edu (John
>>M Cho) wrote:
>>
>>> Actualy, I've heard that in the Gabriel days, they had some pretty
>>> blatant Christian lyrics... Not sure what that means... But I seem
>>> to recall one friend of mine talking about a Genesis song (when
>>> Peter Gabriel was there) talking about Jesus and his death and
>>> resurrection... Maybe some hard-cord Genesis fan can clear the air.
>
>This is off one of their old albums, Foxtrot, around 1972-3.
>There are allusions to Revalation and the "King of Kings" coming to
>rule the "New Jerusalem" at the end of the song, but I'm
>not sure the message of the song is really Christian, more of
>a typical surreal Peter Gabriel epic with a dramatic ending.
>I haven't really looked in depth at the lyrics though. In
>general Petar Gabriel wrote fantasy/mythical type lyrics that
>fit in with the dramatic, classical type rock Genesis did at the time.
Here I go posting about progressive rock again. Uh oh.
According to an interview that PG gave to Musician Magazine in the late
eighties, "Supper's Ready" was inspired by the various visions/
hallucinations his then-wife experienced while under the influence of
LSD. There's certainly lots of biblical imagery there, but I'm hesitant
to attach any kind of a coherent statement of faith to the lyrics. :-)
>> If you're really not into
>>listening to non-christian music, then they're probably not for you. The
>>early stuff, though. Wow.
>
>You can say that again...WOW!!! Before Steve Hackett left the band in the
>early 80s Genesis created some of the most stunning music in rock. The
>albums Nursey Cryme, Foxtrot and The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway are
>progressive rock masterpieces. The music has the dynamic and
>structural quality of classical music and the intensity of rock,
>I get goosebumps listening to most of it. The new stuff pales in comparison.
I just can't muster up a WOW!!!, but I'll agree that the new stuff pales
in comparison. I think the three albums you mention are purty durn good,
which, coming from Mr. Three Chords And An Attitude, is high praise
indeed. :-)
>Rob
Andy Whitman
AT&T Network Systems
Columbus, Ohio
a...@ncms1.cb.att.com
GT Amateur Radio Club
>You can verify what I say by locating a copy of the album in
>question. Suffice it to say that it's a bizzare piece of fiction
>about a woman unzipping herself, beginning at the vagina. I would
>classify it as, um, unedifying. I.e., pornographic.
What's so pornographic about it, though??? It doesn't mention sex, it is
merely a bizarre little story about a woman who removes her skin. I would
have to REALLY wonder about someone who found that sexually stimulating.
Burping in public is unedifying too... but let's save the porno accusations
for those things that really deserve it... like Madonna.
-Mike
Paul DuBois
> dub...@primate.wisc.edu (Paul DuBois) writes:
>
>>> resurrection... Maybe some hard-cord Genesis fan can clear the air.
>>Artist's license, probably. No Christian (I hope) would write the sort
>>of filthy trash contained in the story on the liner of Genesis Live.
>>Paul DuBois
>>dub...@primate.wisc.edu
>
> Hey now, I'm a Christian and I must say, while the story in question is a
> bi graphic, it isn't nearly as bad as most lyrics you hear today... personally
> I'd say that Amy Grant's "Baby Baby" is worse, for pretending to be a Christian-
> oriented song.
Yes -- a "bit" graphic.
> Still, keep in mind the times. When that was written, the group were young, like
> in their late teens/early twenties.... Not that that is an excuse, but I think
Quite right. It's not an excuse. The group being young has little relevance
here. I'm not sure "the times" has much, either.
> that later-day albums haven't had nearly the same level of story telling in
> part because the members have grown up a bit. Besides, as I stated in an earlier
> post, the music itself is not anti-Christian, and some of it embraces Christian
> themes. Please, folks, just because you don't agree entirely with something, do
> not assume it has no value... if nothing else, it might clue you in to the
> things going on at the time.
I didn't "assume" it had no value, actually. I came to that conclusion after
considering what possible value the story might have, and found none. Do
you think it has any? If so, you didn't say what it might be.
In any case, I didn't say Genesis was "anti-Christian". I said that it's
unlikely (highly unlikely given the content of the story) that Genesis
is was a Christian band.
--
Paul DuBois
dub...@primate.wisc.edu
Paul DuBois
> dub...@primate.wisc.edu (Paul DuBois) writes:
>
>>You can verify what I say by locating a copy of the album in
>>question. Suffice it to say that it's a bizzare piece of fiction
>>about a woman unzipping herself, beginning at the vagina. I would
>>classify it as, um, unedifying. I.e., pornographic.
>
> What's so pornographic about it, though??? It doesn't mention sex, it is
> merely a bizarre little story about a woman who removes her skin. I would
> have to REALLY wonder about someone who found that sexually stimulating.
> Burping in public is unedifying too... but let's save the porno accusations
> for those things that really deserve it... like Madonna.
I would say "evaluation" rather than "accusation", but as you like.
The manner in which the story is told seems clearly designed to
suggest without explcit statement a certain form of sexual activity,
and to get the reader to think about it. That the garden path
does not end up where the reader led to expect does not diminish the
fact that the expectations are raised.
As I said, I find the thing unedifying.
--
Paul DuBois
dub...@primate.wisc.edu
GT Amateur Radio Club
>Paul DuBois
No, they aren't a Christian band. Then again, they did write a 24-minute song
which in my opinion is one of the most revolutionary songs in the history of
Rock & Roll, whose lyrics are the Book of Revelations. (ie, Supper's Ready.)
Also, in the Duke album, they tackle Godlike/spiritual themes, which could
easily be considered to come froma Christian viewpoint (listen to "Behind The
Lines") Yes, Genesis is not specifically Christian. But JC Himself told his
disciples, "He who is not against us, is for us." So while I understand the
fact that the story is unedifying, don't forget that maybe they have done
some good out there too... you will find, also, that that story is not very
typical of what they have produced...
Give 'em a chance. Don't expect every song to be about Jesus. Not all the good
bands in the world are Christian bands. :-)
Replies to wha...@camelia.mirc.gatech.edu, NOT the originating account Please!
GT Amateur Radio Club
>From article <3d30ed$q...@acmex.gatech.edu>, by eew...@prism.gatech.edu (GT Amateur Radio Club):
>> dub...@primate.wisc.edu (Paul DuBois) writes:
>>
>>>You can verify what I say by locating a copy of the album in
>>>question. Suffice it to say that it's a bizzare piece of fiction
>>>about a woman unzipping herself, beginning at the vagina. I would
>>>classify it as, um, unedifying. I.e., pornographic.
>>
>> What's so pornographic about it, though??? It doesn't mention sex, it is
>> merely a bizarre little story about a woman who removes her skin. I would
>> have to REALLY wonder about someone who found that sexually stimulating.
>> Burping in public is unedifying too... but let's save the porno accusations
>> for those things that really deserve it... like Madonna.
>I would say "evaluation" rather than "accusation", but as you like.
Yes. If that's your evaluation of it, that is your right.
>The manner in which the story is told seems clearly designed to
>suggest without explcit statement a certain form of sexual activity,
>and to get the reader to think about it. That the garden path
>does not end up where the reader led to expect does not diminish the
>fact that the expectations are raised.
>As I said, I find the thing unedifying.
You think that maybe, just MAYBE, the writer of that story (probably Peter
Gabriel) knew that, and wanted to point out to folks the fact that they would
assume something like that that didn't pan out? Think of it, maybe he wanted
to actually make people think about their own conscience. Maybe not, I don't
know. But I find it unfair to accuse Genesis of producing pornography... I'm
sure they had other, better things to do with their time.... like make some
EXCELLENT music.
Reply to wha...@camelia.mirc.gatech.edu, NOT originating account. :-)
Paul DuBois
> which in my opinion is one of the most revolutionary songs in the history of
> Rock & Roll, whose lyrics are the Book of Revelations. (ie, Supper's Ready.)
Revelation.
> Also, in the Duke album, they tackle Godlike/spiritual themes, which could
> easily be considered to come froma Christian viewpoint (listen to "Behind The
> Lines") Yes, Genesis is not specifically Christian. But JC Himself told his
> disciples, "He who is not against us, is for us." So while I understand the
> fact that the story is unedifying, don't forget that maybe they have done
> some good out there too... you will find, also, that that story is not very
> typical of what they have produced...
> Give 'em a chance. Don't expect every song to be about Jesus. Not all the good
> bands in the world are Christian bands. :-)
Now you have crossed a line, from simply defending them to trying
to convince me to put them on my playlist. I say: no, stop, please.
You want to listen to Genesis, that's your choice. I simply do
not want to. You point out that the story is atypical of their output.
I won't disagree with you. However, something like that is something
I would have to overlook. And to the extent that I have to *overlook*
a band's stuff in order to make them a part of my life, to that extent
I can take no pleasure in them. Were I to listen to Genesis, I
would be saying to myself each time, "ah, but what about this, and
that, and ...?" It's not worth it to me. It's the same with a band
like U2. I can see that songs like "40" or "Still Haven't..." have
obvious Christian content. That draws me in. On the other hand,
when they start putting things like "shithouse floor" in their
lyrics and Bono says things like "fuck the revolution!" in the
movie, well, then, they just no longer interest me. One might
argue, I suppose, that such things are simply a reflection of Bono's
interest in civil justice (in the first case) or his passion over
his people (in the second), and that might be true. But I don't
care to make it part of what I take in on a regular basis. I just
don't see the point. There are other bands, there is other music.
--
Paul DuBois
dub...@primate.wisc.edu
Wesleyfan
>In any case, I didn't say Genesis was "anti-Christian". I said that it's
>unlikely (highly unlikely given the content of the story) that Genesis
>is was a Christian band.
I have heard from two sources (unofficial) that Mike Rutherford is a Christian.
Some of the songs from his Mike & the Mechanics albums apparently have Christian
content. Tony Banks' lyrics from "And Then There Were Three" lead me to believe
that he was/is a sceptic, as great of a keyboard player as he is. I have no
idea about Phil Collins.
Chris Andrews
A wholly owned subsidiary of The Kingdom of God
cand...@clemsonsc.ncr.com
Robert Du Broy
In a previous posting, Wesleyfan (cand...@clemsonsc.ncr.com) writes:
>>In article <3d4knq...@uakari.primate.wisc.edu> Paul DuBois writes:
>
>>unlikely (highly unlikely given the content of the story) that Genesis
>>is was a Christian band.
>
> Some of the songs from his Mike & the Mechanics albums apparently have Christian
> content. Tony Banks' lyrics from "And Then There Were Three" lead me to believe
> that he was/is a sceptic, as great of a keyboard player as he is. I have no
> idea about Phil Collins.
>
>
>
Christian by association? He recently divorced, but so has half the CCM
industry, it seems.
--
\ | / Robert H. Du Broy F
---+--- be...@freenet.carleton.ca R
| With God all things are possible.E
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