Dove Awards 1999
MSJanke
Doves presentation that I've ever seen since I started watching about 10 years
ago; totally makeing up for the folly that was last year's show. The production
quality was outstanding, John Tesh did a good job hosting, there wasnt a lot of
cheesy banter between presenters, the show focused on performances and they
were all really good quality, and the awards themselves were given to worthy
artists. Nothing for the GMA to be embarassed about here, tonight. Highlights
included Smitty's "Live the Life," dc Talk's "Supernatural," Steven Curtis
Chapman, doing a new song about a river, and Kirk Franklin's show-closing "Lean
On Me." The winnners in the major categories are:
•Song of the Year: "My Deliverer," Rich Mullins/Mitch McVicker
•Songwriter: Rich Mullins
•Male Vocalist: Chris Rice
•Female Vocalist: Jaci Velasquez
•Group: Point of Grace
•Artist of the Year: Michael W Smith
•New Artist: Jennifer Knapp
•Producer: Michael W Smith
Chris Rice and Jennifer Knapp got MAJOR ovations, as did Smitty when he won for
Artist of the Year.
I'll post a full list of winners soon, along w/ more commentary.
Michael Janke
Visit Cindy Morgan NET:
http://members.aol.com/MSJanke/cindy
===================================
Diane Court: Nobody thinks it will work, do they?
Lloyd Dobler: No. You just described every great success story.
MSJanke
It was a great show. In the 10+ years I've been watching the Dove Awards, I've
never seen the GMA have it so together. This totally made up for last years
travesty. The show focused on the MUSIC, and some segments of the show didn't
even present an award. Each of the performances was good, and many were great.
There wasn't a bad spot in the show, even when it was an artist who I normally
wouldnt like to listen to. Highlights were Steven Curtis Chapman doing a song
off his new record (it sounds like he experimented w/ a slightly new style),
Smitty's "Live the Life," dc Talk ROCKED on "Supernatural," Kirk Franklin,
Crystal Lewis, CeCe Winans and a guy on a sax closed with "Lean On Me," and The
Cathedrals in their final performance at the Doves (since they are retiring
this year).
The only moments that bordered on cheesy involved Avalon and Jaci. Jaci
Velasquez performed "Un Lugar" in English and Spanish, but looked kinda funky
with her hand motions. She came across as a Selena-wannabe. She was very
appreciative when she won Female Vocalist, though. And Avalon opened the show
with "Testify To Love." They sang great, but their number was over-produced,
with streamers and dancers and it just seemed like too much. Avalon can SING,
so let them. They dont need that other stuff.
John Tesh did a fine job hosting. He pronounced all the names right and showed
a proper knowledge and respect of the industry. He even poked fun at Robert
Benigni's (sp) chair dance from the Oscars.
The show had solid production values and came off very slick and professional.
The set was quite cool. No cut-ins with the music during acceptance speeches.
No awards going to really bad choices in artists. Della Reece, from Touched By
An Angel, helped present an awards, but she was the only major mainstream
personality who showed up, thankfully. Chris Rice was a major surprise in the
Male Vocalist category, but the crowd went NUTS when he won. The new artists
nominee performances were split up this year. When Knapp won the crowd went
nuts again. She was the clear favorite. Smitty took Artist of the Year and got
a standing ovation. He really deserved that award after the year he put in. He
even commented on it, saying that if working as hard as he did in 1999 is what
it takes to win, then he'll NEVER WIN AGAIN!! LOL.
In short, the 1999 Dove Awards are something the GMA can and should be PROUD
OF. It's just too bad that they weren't shown live, so everyone could see
them. I look at the TV schedule tonight and it would've been a perfect night.
No major competition everywhere. Especially w/ the teen circuit, since Fox
showed a movie and Dawsons Creek is in re-runs. Hopefully the syndication will
work out well for them. But even if it does, it's too bad they weren't shown
live, nation-wide, tonight.
Here are the winners in all the categories that I can remember. I'm sure a
complete list will be availiable on the web tommorow:
Song of the Year: "My Deliverer
Songwriter of the Year: Rich Mullins
Male Vocalist of the Year: Chris Rice
Female Vocalist of the Year: Jaci Velasquez
Group of the Year: Point of Grace
Artist of the Year: Michael W Smith
New Artist of the Year: Jennifer Knapp
Producer of the Year: Michael W Smith
Rap/Hip Hop/Dance Recorded Song of the Year: "Plagiarism," Grits
Alternative/Modern Rock Recorded Song of the Year: "The Devil Is Bad," W's
Hard Music Recorded Song of the Year: "Awesome God," Insyderz
Rock Recorded Song of the Year: "Undo Me," Jennifer Knapp
Pop/Contemporary Recorded Song of the Year: "Testify To Love," Avalon
Inspirational Recorded Song of the Year: "Adonai," Avalon
Country Recorded Song of the Year: "Count Your Blessings," The Martins
Urban Recorded Song of the Year: "Revolution," Kirk Franklin
Rap/Hip Hop/Dance Album of the Year: Heatseeker; The World Wide Message Tribe
Modern Rock/Alternative Album of the Year : Fourth From The Last; The W's
Hard Music Album of the Year : Brightblur; Massivivid
Rock Album of the Year: Anybody Out There?; Burlap To Cashmere
Pop/Contemporary Album of the Year: Live The Life; Michael W. Smith
Inspirational Album of the Year : Corner of Eden; Kathy Troccoli
Country Album of the Year : A Work In Progress; Jeff and Sheri Easter
Traditional Gospel Album of the Year: Christmas With Shirley Caesar; Shirley
Caesar
Contemporary Gospel Album of the Year : Nu Nation Project; Kirk Franklin
Instrumental Album of the Yea: Acoustic Sketches; Phil Keaggy
Praise & Worship Album of the Year : Renewing The Heart Live Hymns and Songs of
Worship; Kim Hill
Children's Music Album of the Year: Veggie Tunes 2; Veggie Tales
Spanish Language Album of the Year: TIE
Libertad Me Das; Sandi Patty
Oro; Crystal Lewis
Special Event Album of the Year: Exodus; dcTalk, Jars of Clay, Sixpence None
The Richer, Cindy Morgan, Chris Rice, The Katinas, Third Day, Crystal Lewis,
Michael W. Smith
Enhanced CD of the Year: Steady On Enhance CD Single, Point of Grace
Recorded Music Packaging of the Year: The Jesus Record
Short Form Music Video of the Year: "Entertaining Angels," Newsboys
Long Form Music Video of the Year: My Utmost For His Highest, The Concert
Glen Walker
Songwriter of the year, maybe, but male vocalist? I don't think so. It
would be nice if a vocalist actually won this award. Maybe they should
change the name of the category to most popular male artist. It would
then make more sense. Bob Carlisle, Jonathan Pierce, Bryan Duncan and
numerous others would qualify but not Chris Rice. I am sure he is a
wonderful fella but he is no vocalist. How about giving this to someone
who can actually sing!
Ranger57
>
> The 1999 Dove Awards are over. I have to say that this was probably the best
> Doves presentation that I've ever seen since I started watching about 10 years
> ago; totally makeing up for the folly that was last year's show. The production
> quality was outstanding, John Tesh did a good job hosting,
I caught a few minutes of it on RealVideo, and was surprised that I
could get a clear stream. I mean, a popular show is going to have some
net congestion buffering, right?
John Tesh in a beard. More than enough reason to walk away....
MSJanke
I agree with the comments about Chris Rice winning. That is, when you look at
the term "vocalist." But I believe that the award has become a male ARTIST
award. They probably should change the name. So when you don't look at it as a
vocalist award, then that Rice won makes better sense. Even though I still
would've given it to Smitty. If it were given out based purely on vocal
ability, would it not always go to the same guy? That Steven Curtis Chapman has
won it SO many times demonstrates that it isn't a given out for vocal prowess,
since SCC is hardly the strongest of voice. So, since it's not really an award
based upon vocal ability or performance then it makes more sense that Rice won.
Again, they should probably change the name of the category, though...
FabDoggRec
if you're name's not Michael W Smith, Amy Grant, Steven Curtis Chapman, Rich
Mullins, or Toby McKeehan - and if you're not associated with those folks by
record company or production, odds are, NO Dove Award for you. (As a group,
look how many they've won and tell me I'm wrong).
The politics behind the Dove Awards is sickening.
Oooo
oooO ( )
( ) ) / "Wherever your foot shall tread, I have given it to you"
\ ( (_/
\_)
MSJanke
>
>Bottom line,
>if you're name's not Michael W Smith, Amy Grant, Steven Curtis Chapman, Rich
>Mullins, or Toby McKeehan - and if you're not associated with those folks by
>record company or production, odds are, NO Dove Award for you. (As a group,
>look how many they've won and tell me I'm wrong).
>
>The politics behind the Dove Awards is sickening.
Uhh.. Toby only won one Dove tonght, in a minor category. Amy wasn't even
there, nor did she win anything. Steven Curtis Chapman only won one minor
award (long form video) as well. Michael W Smith may have won six Doves this
year, but he EARNED it (3 albums: Live the Life, Christmastime, Exodus).
As for being "associated" with them on their record labels or production,
hmm..... let's see, that covers just about EVERYONE. Smitty's on Reunion, which
is a part of Provident. Steven Curtis is Sparrow, a part of Chordant, as is dc
Talk. And Amy Grant is on Myrrh, part of Word. That covers just about 90% of
the Christian artists out there. So I guess you're right, if youre not
"associated" with them, then you're probably not going to win. Cause you
probably dont have a record deal. Your blanket statement doent hold water.
The fact is that a lot of worthy artists won last night. Jennifer Knapp (Gotee)
was very deserving. Chris Rice is an incredible singer/songwriter. Smitty I
already mentioned. Point of Grace? They released their best album, in Steady
On. Rich Mullins.. you wanna rag on a dead guy? He got songwriter, but The
Jesus Record was an outstanding project so I can't argue with that. Who else
won: Grits, The W's, Insyderz, The Martins, Kirk Franklin, WWMT, Massivivid,
Phil Keaggy, Burlap to Cashmere, etc... Dang, Amy, Smitty and Steven Curtis
sure have a lot of friends.
If the "politics" were as bad as you think, why didn't dcTalk win any major
awards? They're the crown jewel of the Christian music industry, but they were
vitually shut out. Chordant is the largest distributor in the Christian
market. How many of the eight major awards did they claim? Hmm... zero.
James Blind
I listened to the awards rather than bother with the video stream and had
these observations
1)Despite what was earlier said, there WAS cheezy banter, and no
offense,but the banter between Crystal Lewis and Kirk Franklin was about
as bad as anything I heard, it was unfunny and delivered porrly, and a few
times i heard presenters lose their way off the telepromoter (Shirley
Caesar and Trinitee 5:7 for example)
2)I think the thing that continues to sadden me, is that is took the death
of a genius for the establishment to recgnize him (Rich Mullins, who prior
to last year had NEVER won a Dove). I just hope they continue to remember
him for the right reasons, because he seemed to live the anti-GMA way.
3)Advice for the GMA-next year just try and put the thing on Pax-net, its
a nice comfy compromise between being on Cable and being on broadcast TV
with the added bonus of actually being on in the same time slot
nationally.
4)Why is it that at least one "big name artist" every year has to drive us
nuts with a song that won't be out for months (Steve Curtis Chapman did a
pretty cool new song, but it won't be out til July, and if is a radio
single, then late May at the earliest). I understand if theCD would be out
next month, but July....whats the purpose of that. I feel sorry for all
the book stores and radio stations that will get calls for that song and
not know what to tell the disapointed customer.
5)As long as the Dove awards exist, there will always be people second
guessing them. I've voted in the past, although I didnt this year, and I'd
like to think I've voted without an agenda.Perhaps not everyone does that,
being that all the voters are within the industry itself, and may,just
maybe the Dove's have really lost whatver validity they originally had.
But when it's all said and done, the Doves are unimportant,and
insignificant compared to the effect that these songs have on people's
lives...sure it would be cool to see groups like The Echoing Green,
Vigilantes Of Love, etc get Doves...but does that make their tunes any
less cool to you or me? Does that make their ministries any more or less
valid? its just a silly awards show..i guess i am just suggesting we
dismiss it as that, and go back to enjoying the tunes for antoher year..in
one of the few great scripted moments last night, Point Of Grace said that
based on who was nominated for Best New Artist, it proves we have a good
future..on that, i agree...
james
--
=================================James Blind=================================
=============================jbl...@pacifier.com=============================
MSJanke
>
>
>1)Despite what was earlier said, there WAS cheezy banter, and no
>offense,but the banter between Crystal Lewis and Kirk Franklin was about
>as bad as anything I heard, it was unfunny and delivered porrly, and a few
>times i heard presenters lose their way off the telepromoter (Shirley
>Caesar and Trinitee 5:7 for example)
True. You're right. I should've said there was LESS than before. In particular,
i was pleased to see the Steven Curtis jokes reduced to almost none. There was
just the one, between Trocolli and the NASCAR guy, which wasnt too bad. In the
past years it was almost unbearable. I mean, its gotta be extremely
embarassing to the guy. He tires so hard to aim the spotlight off himself and
onto Christ and those jokes don't help.
>3)Advice for the GMA-next year just try and put the thing on Pax-net, its
>a nice comfy compromise between being on Cable and being on broadcast TV
>with the added bonus of actually being on in the same time slot
>nationally.
Dude, i was thinking that exact same thing last week. Its the perfect solution.
Good call. Let's write the GMA...
>5)As long as the Dove awards exist, there will always be people second
>guessing them
Too true. Too true.
>lives...sure it would be cool to see groups like The Echoing Green,
>Vigilantes Of Love, etc get Doves...but does that make their tunes any
>less cool to you or me?
I read that VOL just had their label go bankrupt on them.
Matt Laswell
: . Rich Mullins.. you wanna rag on a dead guy? He got songwriter,
I will. Everybody who's paid attention over the past few years
knows that I'm a huge Rich Mullins fan. The extent to which the
GMA ignored him while he was alive in favor of lesser music was
sad. But Rich Mullins didn't deserve a Dove award for an album
that won Dove awards last year. The way the GMA determines
eligibility has always struck me as fairly silly and this is
no exception, even if one of my personal heroes won it.
Beyond that, and I hate to tick anybody off here, I thought
_The Jesus Record_ was subpar by Rich's standards. It might
well have been a truly great record if he had lived to complete
it (I still prefer to lo-fi demos to the more produced
Ragamuffins disc), but it didn't live up to its potential.
If they want to recognize Rich Mullins, give out a memorial
award in his honor or dedicate ten minutes of the show to a
retrospective. Better yet, dedicate fifteen to a Compassion
International presentation.
--
matt laswell -- laswell at jump dot net
"Ultimately, my days are moved by the one who creates time"
- Dan Quisenberry
Happy The Man
>Bottom line,
>if you're name's not Michael W Smith, Amy Grant, Steven Curtis Chapman,
Rich
>Mullins, or Toby McKeehan - and if you're not associated with those folks
by
>record company or production, odds are, NO Dove Award for you. (As a
group,
>look how many they've won and tell me I'm wrong).
>
>The politics behind the Dove Awards is sickening
It is no different then the grammy's or any other award program. You will
get this as long as people have different taste.
Rick was given a dove award because it was a great project. I look forward
to hearing the finished project one day. I do appreciate those guys putting
together the Jesus Record but it ain't Rich, so it sucks. Did it deserve a
dove award. Who cares. I quit buying stuff in response to awards or albums
sales or media hype. We are blessed those of us who love Christian music,
most stores will let us listen to it, most of the companies would love for
us to listen to and then decide to buy. I rarely am dissapointed because
usually these people sing about my King. Musically some of it is crap, but
they try. I do hold them accountable because if they are doing something to
represent the King it better be to the best of their abilities.
sirROC of Sackcloth Fashion
don't fine. It's not the factor of if your music is good. I think the whole
mini celebrities runnin around w/ there doves instead of grammies is kinda
weird. I would rather win a grammy then a dove, because i am trying to reach
the sec. audience, but even then i think grammies are silly too. Just make
music, love it, and leave the business to the people who have no souls.
--
Timothy J. Trudeau
=================================
| Tel: (619)687-8468
| Icq: 1691317
=================================
=================================
| Member of Sackcloth Fashion:
| http://www.sackcloth.com
|
| Employee of Syntax Records:
| http://www.syntaxrecords.com/
|
| Designee of Eastwind Design:
| http://www.ewdg.com/
=================================
FabDoggRec <fabdo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990325135549...@ng14.aol.com...
> Bottom line,
> if you're name's not Michael W Smith, Amy Grant, Steven Curtis Chapman,
Rich
> Mullins, or Toby McKeehan - and if you're not associated with those folks
by
> record company or production, odds are, NO Dove Award for you. (As a
group,
> look how many they've won and tell me I'm wrong).
>
David Murray (SG Fan)
MSJanke <msj...@aol.com.NO-SPAM> wrote in message
19990325001627...@ng108.aol.com...
>Okay. I found me a Wal Mart, woo hoo!, and so here goes:
I'm waiting 'til 4/4 when it will be broadcast locally.
>John Tesh did a fine job hosting.
Thank God they left his 1998 co-host at home this year.
David Murray /db-m...@rfci.net (to reply remove the dash)
http://www.rfci.net/dbmurray
RMC's Official Resident Southern Gospel Fan
Making hay while the sun shines.
David Murray (SG Fan)
The Newsboys' most recent project to the other nominees projects, but like
DC Talk, 1998 wasn't their best year. Avalon and Deliriou5 are still
somewhat upstarts, and _Steady On_ was as good as anything POG has done in
the past.
Song of the Year "My Deliverer"
"We Fall Down" should have dominated this award. Also, it was presented to
the public first in 1998, and, as such, should have been given preference
over a rehashed old song. The tribute awards were enough last year.
Female Vocalist of the Year Jaci Velasquez
Jaci is the one who deserved this award for her work in 1998. I appreciate
Matt Laswell putting Crystal Lewis into perspective for me earlier this
year.
Male Vocalist of the Year Chris Rice
What a joke. Bob Carlisle is the only male nominee who can sing like a man,
hence he should win any award called "Male." Unlike Crystal Lewis, he
controls his ability. He's not always cranked up to 11, although he can go
there when he chooses. Guy Penrod and Michael English can do the same thing,
but weren't nominated. If the award has truly become "Male Artist," the
Michael W. Smith should have won. Chris Rice???????
New Artist of the Year Jennifer Knapp
Good call, although Burlap is the more demonstratively talented nominee.
Artist of the Year Michael W. Smith
Yep. He earned it this year.
Recorded Music Packaging of the Year The Jesus Record
Randy Stonehill's _Thirst_ had the best packaging of the year. It wasn't
nominated. _The Jesus Record_'s packaging was as good or better than the
other nominees, so it's a good pick.
Praise and Worship Album of the Year Focus On The Family presents Renewing
The Heart Live Hymns and Songs of Worship; Kim Hill;
Good call. This is one of the better P&W albums I've heard.
Southern Gospel Recorded Song of the Year "I Believe In A Hill Called Mount
Calvary";William J. Gaither, Gloria Gaither
Again, a rehashed old song gets preference over songs that were actually
introduced for the first time in 1998. Bummer. I'd have given it to "He Made
A Change."
Country Album of the Year A Work In Progress; Jeff and Sheri Easter; Michael
Sykes; Spring Hill
Excellent choice. It's even in the correct category. (In earlier years, the
GMA would have stuck anything with the name "Easter" in the Bluegrass
category.)
Pop/Contemporary Album of the Year Live The Life; Michael W. Smith
Yep.
Inspirational Album of the Year Corner of Eden; Kathy Troccoli
I'd have given it to Michael English for _Gospel_, or The Martins for _Dream
Big_, or probably even Twila for _Perennial_ over this lackluster effort.
Modern Rock/Alternative Recorded Song of the Year "The Devil Is Bad"; Fourth
From The Last; The W's; Andrew Schar, Todd Gruener, James Carter, Brian
Morris, Val Hellman, Bret Barker; 5 Minute Walk, Sarabellum
So that's a "modern rock song." OK.
Hard Music Recorded Song of the Year "Awesome God"; The Insyderz Present
Skalleluia!; The Insyderz; Rich Mullins with additional lyrics by Joe Yerke;
Squint Entertainment
If The W's are "Modern Rock/Alternative," wouldn't The Insyderz be in the
same category?
Pop/Contemporary Recorded Song of the Year "Testify To Love"; A Maze of
Grace; Avalon
This category was very balanced. I'll bet the voting was close. Note to GMA:
Show us the tabulations. Inquiring minds want to know!
Southern Gospel Album of the Year Still The Greatest Story Ever Told;
Gaither Vocal Band
The Cathedrals should have won this award. _Still The Greatest Story_ is not
near as good as previous GVB projects, while _Faithful_ is one of the best
Southern Gospel albums ever. It should have been no contest. Oh well.
They're disbanding this year. I guess they'll win next year and the year
after like Rich Mullins.
Songwriter of the Year Rich Mullins
This is stupid. Rich didn't write any songs last year. He was dead.
Shouldn't that have disqualified him from this award completely. DUH!
Producer of the Year Michael W. Smith
Great producers never win unless they are also artists. I'm not taking
anything away from Michael W. Smith's producing ability, but he only does it
part time. People like Michael Sykes and Brown Bannister who bust their
tails full time making others sound good rarely get nominated. (Brown did
this year, but the other four are artists.) The same deal goes for
songwriters. Kyle Matthews and Joel Lindsey may write three times the songs,
but to win, you have to also be a well known artist.
natfunk music
--
Visit Natalie on the web at http://www.natfunkmusic.com for Music Downloads,
Reviews, pictures, bio, Fan Feedback and much more. Don't miss Natalie on
her way to the top of the R&B/Pop world!
MSJanke wrote in message <19990325231234...@ng-fq1.aol.com>...
>>From: fabdo...@aol.com (FabDoggRec)
If you knew anything about production, you'd know that that the current
production in CCM is about 5 years behind mainstream,
This is totally true- Chrisitan music is in general WAY behind mainsteream
music.
and that's why NO christian artist competes in the secular world??
I have to disagree with you there- what about Kirk Franklin & Nu Nation,
BeBe and CeCe and artists like them- they are right on with what's going on
in R&B and Hip Hop- even thier concerts are comprable to secular ones :)
I'm a Christian who is a secular artist- it's great to be out there and be a
witness and make changes in the secular world.......
FabDoggRec
Talk. And Amy Grant is on Myrrh, part of Word. That covers just about 90% of
the Christian artists out there. So I guess you're right, if youre not
"associated" with them, then you're probably not going to win. Cause you
probably dont have a record deal. Your blanket statement doent hold water.<<<
Oh please, you have to be blind not to see what everyone else sees. There's
TONS of great music out there that doesn't get heard OR nominated because
they're not DCTalk or anyone else associated with Chordant or Word.... and
Smitty earning all those awards?? If you knew anything about production, you'd
know that that the current production in CCM is about 5 years behind
mainstream, and that's why NO christian artist competes in the secular world??
Have you heard of some other producers like Barry Blair? Zach Tannehill? Mark
Turner? Or other bands and producers from smaller labels that dont even get
recognition because they're not in the big 4? WWMT winning RAP album of the
year? They're not even a RAP group. They're HOUSE music. This is what I'm
talking about. Our label has 6 artists charting in the top 25, yet no invites?
Why? Hubcap Annie is sitting in the top 10 on many smaller charts. Ever heard
of them? I doubt it.
>>>Rich Mullins.. you wanna rag on a dead guy? He got songwriter, but The
Jesus Record was an outstanding project so I can't argue with that. <<<
I'm not ragging on the guy at all, but come on? He's passed away, but just like
Notorious BIG, people are still trying to keep him alive by nominating an
average album.
>>>If the "politics" were as bad as you think, why didn't dcTalk win any major
awards? They're the crown jewel of the Christian music industry, but they were
vitually shut out. <<<
Umm, did you not see them perform and win a Dove? Did you not see them get
recognition for an album that the secular market laughed at? The bottom line is
that there are smaller, lesser known artists and producers out there that don't
get the publicity that DCT, Smitty, Grant, and SCC get because they don't have
big market distribution. Look, there are more GREAT artists and producers out
there that blow away the current roster. They just never get heard. They're
music SOUNDS up to date and is produced ecsquistiely, yet is not heard.
DCTalk being the crown jewel is my point exactly. They're big time Christian
music sellers, but signed a $90 million dollar deal with a secular company and
sold 66% LESS units. How many mainstream artists music do you hear that is
keyboard heavy and uses old drum machine tracks? None...I'm sorry, but the
quality of the winners compared to the secular market is light years apart.
Turn on a secualr station. Could Poitn of Grace compete with them? No way in
the world, pal. Could SCC make a hit in the mainstream market? Not with his
production, no. Until CCM sees that the music that they promote sounds terribly
different than mainstream, the Doves will always catch flak from smaller, more
hip labels that CAN compete.
MSJanke
>
>Oh please, you have to be blind not to see what everyone else sees. There's
>TONS of great music out there that doesn't get heard OR nominated because
>they're not DCTalk or anyone else associated with Chordant or Word.... and
>Smitty earning all those awards?? If you knew anything about production,
>you'd
>know that that the current production in CCM is about 5 years behind
>mainstream, and that's why NO christian artist competes in the secular
>world??
>Have you heard of some other producers like Barry Blair? Zach Tannehill? Mark
>Turner? Or other bands and producers from smaller labels that dont even get
>recognition because they're not in the big 4? WWMT winning RAP album of the
>year? They're not even a RAP group. They're HOUSE music. This is what I'm
>talking about.
WWMT isn't rap, but the category is they won includes DANCE, which they would
qualify as. It's not just a rap category, so their win is valid.
Five years behind? Perhaps back in 1988 that was true. No longer.
> Our label has 6 artists charting in the top 25, yet no invites?
>Why? Hubcap Annie is sitting in the top 10 on many smaller charts. Ever heard
>of them? I doubt it.
6 out of the top 25? Of what chart is that? What label are you talking about?
You didnt mention a label before, in your first post. Please, fill me in. I'd
like to listen, if the music is as good as you say it is.
You mention Hubcap Annie, and then say I've probably never heard of them. Well,
there-in lies the problem. If no one's ever heard of them, how can you blame
them for not recognizing them? How can the world be criticized for not
appreciating an artist which they know nothing about? Why should an unknown
artist be awarded "Artist of the Year" when no one has ever heard their music
before?
>Umm, did you not see them perform and win a Dove? Did you not see them get
>recognition for an album that the secular market laughed at? The bottom line
>is
>that there are smaller, lesser known artists and producers out there that
>don't
>get the publicity that DCT, Smitty, Grant, and SCC get because they don't
>have
>big market distribution. Look, there are more GREAT artists and producers out
>there that blow away the current roster. They just never get heard.
Blow away? If they're so GREAT then why aren't they signed to a bigger label?
Cause if they're so GREAT then you'd imagine that a bigger label would like to
sign them so they can sell more units, right? Labels are always looking for
new, hot talent. If they're so great, then why don't the secular labels pick
them up? You seem to have a lot of respect for the secular music scene, so they
must know what's going on then, right? Then how come they dont sign all these
mysteriously overlooked artists?
Blow away? If that's true, then 100% of the music execs in the Christian and
secular industry must be absolutley insane. I mean, their goal is to sell more
music, right? And if they could totally replace their artist roster with other
artists who BLOW THEM AWAY, then they'd be foolish not to do it, right? Or
could it be that these music execs have a better handle on current music
trends, and what the music buying public wants to hear. I think you exagerate
your claim.
I dont deny that there are talented indie artists out there. There are plenty.
And its unfortunate that more can't get signed. But at the same time, it's
foolish to universally criticize the more popular artists that are out there
too. Contrary to what you may believe, they do have talent.
You criticize dc Talk's latest album, saying the secular world laughed at it.
Not from what I read. The general consensus that I saw from the mainstream
critics was about a "B" grade, which doesnt qualify as laughter. (And dcTalk
did perform, but they did not win a Dove, at least not on the show. The only
one they won was for Special Event Album, Exodus).
>DCTalk being the crown jewel is my point exactly. They're big time Christian
>music sellers, but signed a $90 million dollar deal with a secular company
>and
>sold 66% LESS units. How many mainstream artists music do you hear that is
>keyboard heavy and uses old drum machine tracks? None...I'm sorry, but the
>quality of the winners compared to the secular market is light years apart.
>Turn on a secualr station.
What's that supposed to mean? dcTalk signs a mainstream deal (which was far
from $90 million) so that means they're required to conform to the popular
sound of the mainstream? That's simply ridiculous. The point of making music
isn't to imitate what's popular. If dc Talk sounds different then that's there
perogative. As for them selling less units, the albums only been out 6 months.
Jesus Freak went Platinum, but it wasn't over night. Supernatural will be
Platinum too, and I imagine it will be certified faster than Jesus Freak was.
And I do listen to secular music. More than Christian music.
>Until CCM sees that the music that they promote sounds
>terribly
>different than mainstream, the Doves will always catch flak from smaller,
>more
>hip labels that CAN compete.
You seem obsessed with the mainstream. Why must the mainstream be immitated?
Why should artists conform their sounds to something they're not? Yet at the
same time, I must say that there ARE plenty of Christian artists who are
comparable to secular styles and abilities. Jars of Clay, Jennifer Knapp,
Burlap to Cashmere, The Supertones, MxPx, Out of Eden, Kirk Franklin, CeCe
Winans, Sarah Masen, Sixpence None the Richer, Newsboys, Nichole Nordeman,
Margaret Becker, Susan Ashton, etc.. Some of these artists have garnered
mainstream attention. Others havn't, but they're talented enough that they
could if they'd quit singing about the "J-word."
If these "smaller, more hip" labels are all that you say they are, why doesn't
the secular world take notice then? The whole point of your post seems to be
that ccm is unable to make the secular world take notice. Why arent these
labels and their artists noticed, then, if they're so hip and able? I mean,
if talent is the true measuring stick, you'd think that Polygram and Sony would
snatch these guys up.
You criticize Amy Grant, even though she actually GETS the mainstream airplay
which is so important to you. Where's the logic?
You can criticize all you like. But your arguments arent really valid. No one
denies that there are groups and artists who are overlooked by the Dove Awards.
But that's the nature of an awards show. Awards shows recognize the
mainstream, for the most part. How come a guy like David Wilcox never gets a
Grammy nomination for Record of the Year? Because he's out of the mainstream.
That those indie artists don't get recognized doesnt mean that the mainstream
artists who DO get recognized are un-worthy. You can keep posting all you
like, but Michael W. Smith DID have a great year. Live the Life was a stellar
pop album. Christmastime was great. And his work on the Exodus project was also
worthy -- praise and worship oriented music is a wonderful thing, especially
when its aimed at the youth culture. The man's labored for 19 years to win that
award. He earned it.
MSJanke
>>John Tesh did a fine job hosting.
>
>Thank God they left his 1998 co-host at home this year.
Amen, brother! LOL
FabDoggRec
them for not recognizing them? How can the world be criticized for not
appreciating an artist which they know nothing about? Why should an unknown
artist be awarded "Artist of the Year" when no one has ever heard their music
before? <<<
My point is not that they're not OUT there, for they are. My point is, there is
no publicity. BIG difference.
>>>Five years behind? Perhaps back in 1988 that was true. No longer.<<<
Turn on your local Top 40 secular station. Then turn on your local Top 40
secular station.If you can't hear the difference, therein lies your problem.
>>>6 out of the top 25? Of what chart is that? What label are you talking
about?<<<
I'm CEO of FabDogg Records. We've gone from unknown Indie status to semi known,
larger label.
Charts? http://www.noize.net/chartz/index.html - #15
http://www.kadu.org/kadu/charts.html - #9
http://www.radiou.org - #13
>>> If no one's ever heard of them, how can you blame
them for not recognizing them? How can the world be criticized for not
appreciating an artist which they know nothing about? Why should an unknown
artist be awarded "Artist of the Year" when no one has ever heard their music
before? <<<
People ARE hearing their music, yet it is on a smaller level. One reason behind
this is because of certain "CCM News" sites that post news, but when we sent in
news, it doesn't get posted. We send CDs for review. No response. We got in
invite to purchase a table at the Doves....Purchase? No other label has to
purchase a table, why us?
Why is it that we have the same ministry goals, and just as competitive music,
but have to struggle just to be heard?
>>>? If they're so GREAT then why aren't they signed to a bigger label? <<<
Personality....Family atmosphere. Close knit..ask any struggling artist why.
>>>You seem to have a lot of respect for the secular music scene, so they
must know what's going on then, right? Then how come they dont sign all these
mysteriously overlooked artists?<<<
I have MUSICAL respect for secular music because it's HIP, and up to date.
How come they don't sign these christian artists? Key word - Christian. and the
christian artists don't WANT to sign with them.
>>>Or
could it be that these music execs have a better handle on current music
trends, and what the music buying public wants to hear. I think you exagerate
your claim.<<<
You are missing the point that the secular music scene and the christian music
scene are DIFFERENT. How many 50 year old christian men do you see listening to
Hard rock? NOT many. Older Christians lean against rock, rap, etc. Hello?
Different world, different mindset, different MARKET. You're going to have a
better chance selling Bob Carlisle to a 55 year old Christian woman than you
would selling Alice in Chains
.>>>The general consensus that I saw from the mainstream
critics was about a "B" grade, which doesnt qualify as laughter<<<
That's funny, then why did it sell 66% more to the christian market? NAME
recognition. Noone in the secular world heard of DCTalk and their album sales
showed it.
>>>What's that supposed to mean? dcTalk signs a mainstream deal (which was far
from $90 million) so that means they're required to conform to the popular
sound of the mainstream? <<<
Ummm, YES...That's the POINT...Hello? You can't sell records if your production
is poor and you can't compete with what's out there.
>>>You seem obsessed with the mainstream. Why must the mainstream be
immitated? >>>
Obsessed, no. But you can't get the attention OF the lost to minister TO the
lost (which is the goal, right?) if your music is POOR.
>>>If these "smaller, more hip" labels are all that you say they are, why
doesn't
the secular world take notice then? I mean,
if talent is the true measuring stick, you'd think that Polygram and Sony would
snatch these guys up. <<<
It's obvious you don't follow "indie" music. Because they do....
>>>You criticize Amy Grant, even though she actually GETS the mainstream
airplay
which is so important to you<<<
Wrong...it's not airplay. It's consistency and fairness. It's not fair that you
don't get the same attention because you're not a major label. and speaking of
Amy, look at her life. but that's a different story.
>>>No one
denies that there are groups and artists who are overlooked by the Dove
Awards.<<<
At least we agree on something...
CabotR
>"We Fall Down" should have dominated this award. Also, it was presented to
>the public first in 1998, and, as such, should have been given preference
>over a rehashed old song. The tribute awards were enough last year.
Which song are you referring to as "rehashed old song"? It can't be "My
Deliverer" since it wasn't produced until 1998 and was at the top of the charts
this past summer.
And what tribute awards? If you're referring to the lame nominations Rich got
last year and that dreadful -- not on the part of the artists, however --
tribute in last year's show, I'd agree. The nominations this year were
meritorious and he deserved to win. (Although, I'll confess some surprise that
he actually did, given the GMA's track record with recognizing his work.)
Unless you weren't referring to Rich ....
-annie
rmc resident Mullins bigot
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
But if my darkness can praise Your light, give me breath!
---Rich Mullins, Damascus Road
CabotR
>Songwriter of the Year Rich Mullins
>This is stupid. Rich didn't write any songs last year. He was dead.
>Shouldn't that have disqualified him from this award completely. DUH!
Okay, obviously, you were referring to Rich earlier. feh.
While he didn't write anything in 1998, being dead and all, original material
with his name attached to it WAS PRODUCED AND SOLD in 1998 ... that's the
qualification, isn't it? Or does that matter in your opinion. well, duh,
obviously not.
MSJanke
>
>"We Fall Down" should have dominated this award. Also, it was presented to
>the public first in 1998, and, as such, should have been given preference
>over a rehashed old song. The tribute awards were enough last year.
How is "My Deliverer" a rehashed old song? Wasn't it released for the first
time in the summer of 1998? I dont understand what you're saying here, David.
Same with the comment on Rich's Songwriter award. The Jesus record was
released in 1998, so that makes him eligible, I would think. I'm not saying he
should've won, but I dont see how he would be disqualified since that album did
come out in the eligible period.
Also, isn't it correct that a song is eligible for TWO years after its release?
If I recall correctly, "In Christ Alone" won Song of the Year the second time
it was nominated.
David Murray (SG Fan)
>
>Turn on your local Top 40 secular station. Then turn on your local Top 40
>secular station.If you can't hear the difference, therein lies your
problem.
I can't hear a difference between my local Top 40 secular station and my
local Top 40 secular station.
Heh.
Sorry.
FabDoggRec
local Top 40 secular station.
Heh.
Sorry.<<<
Whooops
Top 40 Secular and Top 40 Christian...big difference...
David Murray (SG Fan)
CabotR <cab...@aol.com> wrote in message
19990325234930...@ng134.aol.com...
>I didn't read all of David's report.
>
>>Songwriter of the Year Rich Mullins
>>This is stupid. Rich didn't write any songs last year. He was dead.
>>Shouldn't that have disqualified him from this award completely. DUH!
>
>Okay, obviously, you were referring to Rich earlier. feh.
>
>While he didn't write anything in 1998, being dead and all, original
material
>with his name attached to it WAS PRODUCED AND SOLD in 1998 ... that's the
>qualification, isn't it? Or does that matter in your opinion. well, duh,
>obviously not.
For some reason, I was thinking "My Deliverer" was an older song that was
remade this year. I think The Prince of Egypt soundtrack with the DC Talk
remake threw me off.
With regards to my comment you quoted above, I was being a bit silly there
(obviously, I thought).
In all seriousness, I don't remember anything from _The Jesus Record_
grabbing me the way "We Fall Down" did last year. I thought the album as a
whole was fairly bland, but that's just my personal taste, so don't take me
too seriously.
David Murray (SG Fan)
MSJanke <msj...@aol.com.NO-SPAM> wrote in message
>>From: "David Murray (SG Fan)"
>>
>>Song of the Year "My Deliverer"
>>"We Fall Down" should have dominated this award. Also, it was presented to
>>the public first in 1998, and, as such, should have been given preference
>>over a rehashed old song. The tribute awards were enough last year.
>
>How is "My Deliverer" a rehashed old song?
That's what we call an "OOPS!" I was thinking of the DC Talk version on the
POE soundtrack, and for some reason was thinking that it was a song that was
several years old. Sorry.
>Wasn't it released for the first
>time in the summer of 1998? I dont understand what you're saying here,
David.
>Same with the comment on Rich's Songwriter award. The Jesus record was
>released in 1998, so that makes him eligible, I would think. I'm not saying
he
>should've won, but I dont see how he would be disqualified since that album
did
>come out in the eligible period.
That was meant to be a joke. I forgot the smiley. Another "oops." Here . . .
:o)
A belated smiley.
>Also, isn't it correct that a song is eligible for TWO years after its
release?
> If I recall correctly, "In Christ Alone" won Song of the Year the second
time
>it was nominated.
I think you're correct on that.
John v.
>How many mainstream artists music do you hear that is
>keyboard heavy and uses old drum machine tracks? None...I'm sorry,
Erasure, Pet Shop Boys, Electronic, Pop Will Eat Itself, Front Line Assembly,
Anything Box, Monaco, Front 242, Apoptygma Berserk, need I go on? ;)
John v.
MSJanke
>
>
>>>>Five years behind? Perhaps back in 1988 that was true. No longer.<<<
>
>secular station.If you can't hear the difference, therein lies your problem.
I hear a difference. But the difference isnt so dramatic. Five years? No way.
Christian CHR format is much more hip than it used to be. And I already named a
ton of artist who are out there making music that is just as "good" as the
stuff you hear on mainstream radio.
Even our fluffy pop artists can compete. You don't like Avalon and Point of
Grace? Try: N'Sync, Backstreet Boys, B*Witched, Five, 98 Degrees, etc...
>>>> If no one's ever heard of them, how can you blame
>them for not recognizing them? How can the world be criticized for not
>appreciating an artist which they know nothing about? Why should an unknown
>artist be awarded "Artist of the Year" when no one has ever heard their music
>before? <<<
>
>People ARE hearing their music, yet it is on a smaller level. One reason
>behind
>this is because of certain "CCM News" sites that post news, but when we sent
>in
>news, it doesn't get posted. We send CDs for review. No response. We got in
>invite to purchase a table at the Doves....Purchase? No other label has to
>purchase a table, why us?
>Why is it that we have the same ministry goals, and just as competitive
>music,
>but have to struggle just to be heard?
Well, I sympathize with your position. And I do wish you had better luck and
success getting your artists heard.
>>>>What's that supposed to mean? dcTalk signs a mainstream deal (which was
>far
>from $90 million) so that means they're required to conform to the popular
>sound of the mainstream? <<<
>
>Ummm, YES...That's the POINT...Hello? You can't sell records if your
>production
>is poor and you can't compete with what's out there.
Poor production? I dont think so. And yes, they have to conform to the sound
that's out there? I beg to differ. I actually find this quite amusing, I'm
sorry. I hear dc Talk get criticized a lot for trying too hard to sound like
other artists. And you're claiming they're not trying hard enough.
For my money, Supernatural is a fine pop/rock album. If anything, its
over-produced. I would've liked to have heard a more edgy sound from them. They
let loose on the title track, and that's probably the highlight of the album.
No, they dont sound exactly like anyone out there. But who needs that? If
bands consistantly tried to sound like other bands, where would we be? We'd
have 8000 groups who sounded like the Beatles. As for sales figures, I
already addressed that in my previous post.
MSJanke
>
>MSJanke <msj...@aol.com.NO-SPAM> wrote in message
>>
>
>That's what we call an "OOPS!" I was thinking of the DC Talk version on the
>POE soundtrack, and for some reason was thinking that it was a song that was
>several years old. Sorry.
Ahh. Gotcha.
FabDoggRec
>How many mainstream artists music do you hear that is
>keyboard heavy and uses old drum machine tracks? None...I'm sorry,
Erasure, Pet Shop Boys, Electronic, Pop Will Eat Itself, Front Line Assembly,
Anything Box, Monaco, Front 242, Apoptygma Berserk, need I go on? ;)
John v.<<<
How much of that is Billboard Top 200?? None...
thanks
FabDoggRec
Grace? <<<
There is NO way that Avalong and POG sound like NSync, BBoys and the like...NO
way...
>>>No, they dont sound exactly like anyone out there. But who needs that? <<<
The record industry?
Jason Steiner
> fabdo...@aol.com (FabDoggRec) wrote:
> > How many mainstream artists music do you hear that is
> > keyboard heavy and uses old drum machine tracks? None...I'm sorry,
>
> Erasure, Pet Shop Boys, Electronic, Pop Will Eat Itself, Front Line
> Assembly, Anything Box, Monaco, Front 242, Apoptygma Berserk, need
> I go on? ;)
The question was "How many do you hear?"
Thanks for mentioning PWei though. Need to dig out that CD again...
jason
r.m.c's first resident atheist
Now playing: KMFDM - Juke Joint Jezebel
--
"Any time of the day is a good time for pie." - Fabienne, Pulp Fiction
ja...@gaydeceiver.com http://www.gaydeceiver.com
PandaXPRS
>Good call, although Burlap is the more demonstratively talented nominee.
hmm... i'll have to disagree to that statement. musically burlap may have more
intricate music, but when you strip both of the artists down, jen knapp has the
unbelievable lyrics and powerful voice. i think she really deserved it this
year.
for His glory, by His grace
courtney
MSJanke
>
>>>>You don't like Avalon and Point of
>Grace? <<<
>
>There is NO way that Avalong and POG sound like NSync, BBoys and the
>like...NO way...
Actually, they're more similar that you believe. They've all pop vocal groups.
And Avalon, especially on their new album, has a very heavy euro-pop influence.
Some of the stuff on In A Different Light compares very favorably with the
afore mentioned groups.
>>>>No, they dont sound exactly like anyone out there. But who needs that?
><<<
>
>The record industry?
Whatever. Okay, you can go and listen to sound-a-like artists who mimic other
artists. Have fun with that.
MSJanke
>
>>>>fabdo...@aol.com (FabDoggRec) wrote:
>>How many mainstream artists music do you hear that is
>>keyboard heavy and uses old drum machine tracks? None...I'm sorry,
>
>Erasure, Pet Shop Boys, Electronic, Pop Will Eat Itself, Front Line Assembly,
>
>Anything Box, Monaco, Front 242, Apoptygma Berserk, need I go on? ;)
>
>
>How much of that is Billboard Top 200?? None...
>thanks
Keyboard heavy, drum machine, and on the Top 200... try: Madonna's Album of the
Year: _Ray of Light_. And Erasure and the Pet Shop Boys have huge fan bases;
both have logged plenty of time on the Top 200.
Thanks.
And you mis-characterize Supernatural. Only a few of the songs on that record
fit the description you just gave. Most are guitar-oriented. The album is
diverse. "Godsend" is nothing like "Fearless" or "Supernatural."
Jerry B. Ray
FabDoggRec <fabdo...@aol.com> wrote:
>Oh please, you have to be blind not to see what everyone else sees. There's
>TONS of great music out there that doesn't get heard OR nominated because
>they're not DCTalk or anyone else associated with Chordant or Word....
Feh. Never ascribe to malicious intent what can be adequately explained
by ignorance. There's no grand conspiracy in the GMA to shut out artists
on your label (or other artists somewhat out of the Christian radio
mainstream). It's just that the bulk of the GMA, like the bulk of
Christian radio, is made up of stodgy, conservative old white guys. You
can hardly fault them for being out of touch with the more fringe music
that most of us around here prefer.
Quite simply, the Dove awards (like the Grammys or the American Music
Awards) exist to award safe, mainstream, overplayed, popular music. As
such, they have absolutely no bearing on my life, so I have a really
hard time working up any righteous indignation about the whole thing.
JRjr
--
%%%%% vap...@prism.gatech.edu %%%%%%%% Jerry B. Ray, Jr. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
"Hope springs eternal once in awhile"
-- Mark Heard, "Another Day In Limbo" --
Jerry B. Ray
MSJanke <msj...@aol.com.NO-SPAM> wrote:
>> Our label has 6 artists charting in the top 25, yet no invites?
>6 out of the top 25? Of what chart is that?
This is a HUGE pet peeve of mine, lying with statistics in the Christian
marketplace. I get really sick of hearing about the chart success
such-and-such unknown artist has had on the "Christian ska-billy by
bands with names that end in a vowel" chart. When I heard Sixpence was
up to #5, my first reaction was "oh, well, let's add that to their
other 15 #5 hits" until I realized that they were #5 on a chart that
actually has some credibility.
>You criticize dc Talk's latest album, saying the secular world laughed at it.
>Not from what I read. The general consensus that I saw from the mainstream
>critics was about a "B" grade, which doesnt qualify as laughter.
I'd rate that as a very generous review, though. After the first day I
bought it, that disc hasn't been back in my player and probably won't be.
Jerry B. Ray
FabDoggRec <fabdo...@aol.com> wrote:
>Erasure, Pet Shop Boys, Electronic, Pop Will Eat Itself, Front Line Assembly,
>Anything Box, Monaco, Front 242, Apoptygma Berserk, need I go on? ;)
>How much of that is Billboard Top 200?? None...
Well, Erasure, Pet Shop Boys, Electronic, and Anything Box have had "radio
songs" in the past, some quite a few. Monaco had a pretty big hit a year
or two back. Really, those bands aren't so much _behind_ the times due to
the instrumentation that they use as they are _ahead_ of them...
Mark Strawcutter
> Our label has 6 artists charting in the top 25, yet no invites?
Ah! That explains your attitude...
> Why? Hubcap Annie is sitting in the top 10 on many smaller charts. Ever heard
> of them? I doubt it.
Or perhaps they aren't as good as you think they are?
Mark
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
FabDoggRec
>like...NO way...
Actually, they're more similar that you believe. They've all pop vocal groups.
And Avalon, especially on their new album, has a very heavy euro-pop influence.
Some of the stuff on In A Different Light compares very favorably with the
afore mentioned groups.<<<
You believing that is my exact point. POG and Avalon are lightyears apart in
musical quality compared to BSB, NS, BW, and all those "europop" groups.
Your thinking that they have the same sound is the reason why the Doves will
never get the credibility they want.
"our music is just as good as their music"
WRONG...
FabDoggRec
the
Year: _Ray of Light_. And Erasure and the Pet Shop Boys have huge fan bases;
both have logged plenty of time on the Top 200. <<<
I said OLD DRUM MACHINE SOUNDS.
Please pay attention.
Madonna is using a mix of the NEW DRUM SOUNDS, it's called "Eclectica", and if
you knew that, you wouldn't have made that uneducated remark. She doesn't use
the old HR16s and HR16Bs, DR300s, Proteus's, etc. and per your point, how much
of that music mentioned before Madonna do you HEAR.. Please pay attention to
what I say from now on.
FabDoggRec
on your label (or other artists somewhat out of the Christian radio
mainstream). It's just that the bulk of the GMA, like the bulk of
Christian radio, is made up of stodgy, conservative old white guys. You
can hardly fault them for being out of touch with the more fringe music
that most of us around here prefer.
Quite simply, the Dove awards (like the Grammys or the American Music
Awards) exist to award safe, mainstream, overplayed, popular music. As
such, they have absolutely no bearing on my life, so I have a really
hard time working up any righteous indignation about the whole thing.
JRjr<<<
That's nice Jerry, but I never claimed a consipracy, thanks.
FabDoggRec
>6 out of the top 25? Of what chart is that?
This is a HUGE pet peeve of mine, lying with statistics in the Christian
marketplace. I get really sick of hearing about the chart success
such-and-such unknown artist has had on the "Christian ska-billy by
bands with names that end in a vowel" chart. When I heard Sixpence was
up to #5, my first reaction was "oh, well, let's add that to their
other 15 #5 hits" until I realized that they were #5 on a chart that
actually has some credibility.<<<
Excuse me??? Sir, I am NOT lying about anything. Please GO check those charts.
and if you knew ANYTHING whatsoever about music and charting, you'd know that
tose charts DO HAVE credibility, and are radio station reporting charts. I'm
sorry sir, but it is YOU who are speaking out of ignorance.and you better check
yourself.
FabDoggRec
believe, and there's no point oging further and risking insult or whatnot. I've
made my point and that's where I stand. I'm a record company CEO, so I think my
view should have some meaning or bearing, but if it doesn't, oh well.
Tobias
Holiglitly
<Dove winners info snipped>
Does anyone know why an award as big as "Songwriter of the Year" was not
presented during the televised part of the show? it would have been nice for
Rich's family to go up on stage that one last time and pick up an award.
Oh well, the GMA never gave Rich awards while he was alive, and he probably
wouldn't care much :-) i do though!!! it made me mad, grrrr.
:-)
(Oh, and i am so happy to see that "My Deliverer won... i just saw part of the
web cast and was under the impression that a MWS song had won. Thanks for
posting the list!)
Amy
hi snailbryceJandclive,yes i am sticking my nose in again ;->
Jerry B. Ray
FabDoggRec <fabdo...@aol.com> wrote:
>>There's no grand conspiracy in the GMA to shut out artists
>>on your label (or other artists somewhat out of the Christian radio
>>mainstream). It's just that the bulk of the GMA, like the bulk of
>>Christian radio, is made up of stodgy, conservative old white guys. You
>>can hardly fault them for being out of touch with the more fringe music
>>that most of us around here prefer.
> Oooo
Well, thank you for ignoring what I wrote and adding just the tiniest hint
of condescencion to top it all off, then.
You've been talking at great length about how underappreciated and
ignored by the GMA your artists are because they aren't SCC, MWS, or DC
Talk. That sounds rather like a conspiracy theory to me.
All _I'm_ saying (and it appears that I'm wasting my time) is that I don't
believe there's a concerted effort by The Man to keep indie artists Down-
they just don't know any better, for any number of reasons, and probably
don't want to.
Holiglitly
>Bottom line,
>if you're name's not Michael W Smith, Amy Grant, Steven Curtis Chapman, Rich
>Mullins, or Toby McKeehan - and if you're not associated with those folks by
>record company or production, odds are, NO Dove Award for you. (As a group,
>look how many they've won and tell me I'm wrong).
>
>The politics behind the Dove Awards is sickening.
i agree with your last comment, but HAVE to strongly disagree with you lumping
Rich Mullins in with the rest of them. (Substitute "Sandi Patty" there and you
have it right!!) He won his first Dove *after* his death, and that was Artist
of the Year in 1998. And if he had been alive, there is no way he would have
won the Artist of the Year award... it was more of a sort of "Here's an award
for dying, sorry we didn't give ya anything before" deal. (IMHO)
He won 2 this year, bringing him to a grand total of 3, and all after his
death.
Rich never really fit into that Nashville system... i mean, he wouldn't even
live there!! (i have a list of all of his nominations over the years, but i
can't find it... i'll post it later)
Amy
Jerry B. Ray
FabDoggRec <fabdo...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> Our label has 6 artists charting in the top 25, yet no invites?
>>This is a HUGE pet peeve of mine, lying with statistics in the Christian
>>marketplace. I get really sick of hearing about the chart success
>>such-and-such unknown artist has had on the "Christian ska-billy by
>>bands with names that end in a vowel" chart.
>Excuse me??? Sir, I am NOT lying about anything. Please GO check those charts.
>and if you knew ANYTHING whatsoever about music and charting, you'd know that
>tose charts DO HAVE credibility, and are radio station reporting charts. I'm
>sorry sir, but it is YOU who are speaking out of ignorance.and you better check
>yourself.
Oh, I'm not disputing that you've got artists charting on some charts
the way you've described. I just question the usefulness and credibility
of those charts outside of some very specific applications. Particularly,
I question the type of usage quoted from you above, where vague references
to high chart positions are used to impress the ignorant reader (you see
this sort of thing all the time in CCM ads for lesser- or unknown artists).
Really, it all comes down to statistical issues: sample size, and stuff
like that. If you make your charts specific enough, EVERYBODY can be #1.
Jerry B. Ray
FabDoggRec <fabdo...@aol.com> wrote:
>I'm done making my point.It's is obvious ones are going to believe what they
>believe, and there's no point oging further and risking insult or whatnot. I've
>made my point and that's where I stand.
Before you get huffy about the response you've received, take a deep breath
and read back over what you've written.
>I'm a record company CEO, so I think my
>view should have some meaning or bearing, but if it doesn't, oh well.
You've definitely got more of an insider view of things than many of us,
but that fact alone neither gives your views some special level of
credibility nor makes the views of the rest of us any _less_ credible.
A lot of us here have been in and around the industry as fans, writers,
musicians, and/or record company employees long enough to have _some_
level of insight, at least.
Holiglitly
>MSJanke <msj...@aol.com.NO-SPAM> wrote:
>: . Rich Mullins.. you wanna rag on a dead guy? He got songwriter,
>
>I will. Everybody who's paid attention over the past few years
>knows that I'm a huge Rich Mullins fan. The extent to which the
>GMA ignored him while he was alive in favor of lesser music was
>sad. But Rich Mullins didn't deserve a Dove award for an album
>that won Dove awards last year. The way the GMA determines
>eligibility has always struck me as fairly silly and this is
>no exception, even if one of my personal heroes won it.
Matt, i am confused.... what record are you saying Rich won awards for last
year?? Not the Jesus Record, it hadn't even been released in time for the '98
Doves. Dove nominations had to be in by (i think) August of '98, and TJR was
barely even out by then. Eligibility* is* silly though, i will agree with you
on that definitely.... many artists have been awarded year after year for the
same dad gum song (Bob Carlisle comes to mind immediately)
>Beyond that, and I hate to tick anybody off here, I thought
>_The Jesus Record_ was subpar by Rich's standards. It might
>well have been a truly great record if he had lived to complete
>it (I still prefer to lo-fi demos to the more produced
>Ragamuffins disc), but it didn't live up to its potential.
>If they want to recognize Rich Mullins, give out a memorial
>award in his honor or dedicate ten minutes of the show to a
>retrospective. Better yet, dedicate fifteen to a Compassion
>International presentation.
>
>
If you have really listened to The Jesus Record, and given this some thought,
you have to see why "Songwriter" of the year was the award Rich deserved. He
didn't get to finish the record( and i agree that the second disc is way
over-produced), but the lyrics are amazing. The song "Jesus" is one of Rich's
best..... so we did get to see his songwriting ability in the Jesus record, and
i was glad that the award was given to him. i did think the Best Artist award
last year was a bit "off" and would definitely have liked to see a longer sort
of tribute-y thing done for him and his music.... but (speaking of last year
again), i *really* wish they had let his brother finish his acceptance speech
instead of practically pushing him off-stage to make sure Whitney (grr) Houston
had plenty of time for her "extra special" number at the end.
ok, there's my two shiny pennies
(Great idea about Compassion, too Matt!!)
Amy
Holiglitly
>Turn on your local Top 40 secular station. Then turn on your local Top 40
>secular station.If you can't hear the difference, therein lies your problem.
Um.
Huh?
hee
Amy :-)
Holiglitly
Turn off your computers.
Go take a walk. Or write a letter.
Better yet, set up a time where you guys can beat the crap out of each
other!! Now that would be fun!! Anyone else up for that?? We'll have hotdogs
and nachos. It'll be big fun.
:-)
Amy
Holiglitly
>In article <19990325213926...@ng02.aol.com>,
>FabDoggRec <fabdo...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>Oh please, you have to be blind not to see what everyone else sees. There's
>>TONS of great music out there that doesn't get heard OR nominated because
>>they're not DCTalk or anyone else associated with Chordant or Word....
>
>Feh. Never ascribe to malicious intent what can be adequately explained
>by ignorance. There's no grand conspiracy in the GMA to shut out artists
>on your label (or other artists somewhat out of the Christian radio
>mainstream). It's just that the bulk of the GMA, like the bulk of
>Christian radio, is made up of stodgy, conservative old white guys. You
>can hardly fault them for being out of touch with the more fringe music
>that most of us around here prefer.
Thank you!!!!!!!!
>Quite simply, the Dove awards (like the Grammys or the American Music
>Awards) exist to award safe, mainstream, overplayed, popular music.
That is what has been going through my head as i have read this silly fight...
i watch the Grammys every year as penance ;-) Actually, i think it has
something to do with masochistic tendencies, but i'm not totally sure yet ;-)
As
>such, they have absolutely no bearing on my life, so I have a really
>hard time working up any righteous indignation about the whole thing.
>
>JRjr
>--
Go Jerry, go Jerry, go Jerry.....
Amy :-)
Holiglitly
<all sorts of lovely opinions about the dove awards snipped>
It would take all day to refute some of your silly comments, so i will just ask
one question, concerning this:
>Song of the Year "My Deliverer"
>"We Fall Down" should have dominated this award. Also, it was presented to
>the public first in 1998, and, as such, should have been given preference
>over a rehashed old song. The tribute awards were enough last year.
Would you mind explaining how "My Deliverer" is a "rehashed old song"? It just
came out last year ,a nd as i already said, nominations had to be in sometime
late last summer.
Amy
Holiglitly
>>Song of the Year "My Deliverer"
>>"We Fall Down" should have dominated this award. Also, it was presented to
>>the public first in 1998, and, as such, should have been given preference
>>over a rehashed old song. The tribute awards were enough last year.
>
>Which song are you referring to as "rehashed old song"? It can't be "My
>Deliverer" since it wasn't produced until 1998 and was at the top of the
>charts
>this past summer.
>
>And what tribute awards? If you're referring to the lame nominations Rich
>got
>last year and that dreadful -- not on the part of the artists, however --
>tribute in last year's show, I'd agree. The nominations this year were
>meritorious and he deserved to win. (Although, I'll confess some surprise
>that
>he actually did, given the GMA's track record with recognizing his work.)
>
>Unless you weren't referring to Rich ....
>
>
>-annie
>rmc resident Mullins bigot
Hi Annie!!!
Can i be the co-bigot?? :-) If Rich's music hadn't been around in my life i
would probably be....well, i don't think i even want to go there.
(i still have all the mail from you after Rich died.... i don't know if you
remember me, but Great Post)
Amy
FabDoggRec
First off, I apologize if I have offended anyone. It is not intentional. This
is solely my opinion. Sometimes I do get caught up and worked up around this
time of year, because we put in just as much blood, sweat, and tears as the
artists who are dressed up in tuxes and gowns in March in Nashville. Sometimes
as human, it hurts not to see these folks we're so close to get recognized. I
see things close up. I see these artists work their tails off from April to
February, just to get overlooked.
I do think a certain number of award winners are justly awarded. I would say
99% of the artists on the progressive rock and modern rock charts are there
because their music is good, and fits in comparison to the mainstream.
My opinion is not directed at the "rock" side of CCM. I have my opinion on
whether DCTalk, Grant, and Smith are deserving of producer, artist, and album
of the year nominations every time they release an album. I happen to disagree.
But like I said that is my opinion.
Secondly, I only ask one thing of GMA and CCM. Keep your eyes open to the
others out there. Because we do not have big budget advertising or large scale
distribution, that should not prevent us from receiving support and recognition
for carrying on the ministry. That also doesn't make us "Indie" labels. We are
not an indie label. We do have the backing and support of some of the major
labels. For example, Hubcap Annie's music on our sampler CD was produced by
Bleach, and Labaddics' music was assisted by some of the more well known hip
hop producers, and is receiving great airplay and reviews. Until GMA/CCM sees
that we're "all in the same gang", it will continue to be one sided towards the
currently popular bands.
Thirdly, charts. Anyone who knows charts knows that each radio staton has a
chart that they report to the BIG chart. Each of these smaller charts has
credibility. Just because a band is #5 on a smaller chart, does not mean they
do not deserve it, or it is less credible.
I would ask the listeners out there to expand what you listen to. There are
other bands and artists out there with just as much talent and heart for
ministry as the current and past Dove winners. Because they do not get the
exposure the larger ones get, should not prevent them from receiving attention.
mara...@badger1.net
> ... Please pay attention to what I say from now on.
must have missed the trumpet fanfare and dancing bears that
heralded your sage pronouncements.
mara...@badger1.net
> made my point and that's where I stand. I'm a record company CEO, so I think
my
> view should have some meaning or bearing, but if it doesn't, oh well.
hey, i'm a record company CEO, too! maybe i should get out here
and trade insults with the music-buying public more often. "no
such thing as bad press" and all that...
jeff
--
Farewell to Juliet/Marathon Records
PO Box 1222
El Segundo, CA USA 90245-6222
Bruce Geerdes
>Bottom line,
>if you're name's not Michael W Smith, Amy Grant, Steven Curtis Chapman, Rich
>Mullins, or Toby McKeehan - and if you're not associated with those folks by
>record company or production, odds are, NO Dove Award for you. (As a group,
>look how many they've won and tell me I'm wrong).
<sarcasm>
Oh yeah, Rich Mullins won a *lot* of Dove Awards.
</sarcasm>
Chuck Pearson
: Wow, you guys will fight about ANYTHING, won't you??
hey, it's USENET. it's our *jobs* to fight about anything.
now, we just gotta see about getting paid for it, that's all. 8-)
chuck [although the more smack gets tossed around about the doves, the
more i'm thinking about gabe's gentle reminder of the other day...
...here comes ARMCHAIR to save the day...]
--
follow your dreams. you can reach your goals. [thanx to eric cartman.]
i'm living proof. beefcake. BEEFCAKE! <cpea...@freenet.columbus.oh.us>
DIANA MORRIS
The Tennessean newspaper has been covering the Doves and Christian music in
general.
Here are some web pages to visit if you're interested:
http://www.tennessean.com/sii/99/03/23/smith23.shtml
MUSIC
Michael W. Smith gets Golden Note, night
http://www.tennessean.com/sii/99/03/24/dovebmi24.shtml
BROADCAST MUSIC INC.
Knapp's song inspired by broken home
By Jay Orr / Tennessean Staff Writer
http://www.tennessean.com/sii/99/03/24/dove24.shtml
GOSPEL MUSIC ASSOCIATION
Artists hope to fly off with Doves
http://www.tennessean.com/sii/99/03/24/dovearena24.shtml
NASHVILLE ARENA
Gospel music ready for polished Doves
By Tom Roland / Tennessean Staff Writer
http://www.tennessean.com/celebrities/index.shtml
MUSIC CITY NITTY GRITTY
That Bono wasn't mean -- or tall -- at all
By Brad Schmitt / Tennessean Staff Writer
http://www.tennessean.com/sii/columns/schmitt/99/03/brad26.shtml
BRAD ABOUT YOU
Loved the Doves; pass the crow
By Brad Schmitt / Tennessean Staff Writer
http://www.tennessean.com/sii/columns/schmitt/99/03/brad24.shtml
BRAD ABOUT YOU
CeCe Winans' secular label is closing
By Brad Schmitt / Tennessean Staff Writer
We're discussing the Doves on the Christianmusic email list. Feel free to
join the list!
http://www.goodstuff.prodigy.com/lists/christianmusic.html
See what we're discussing today on the archives page
http://www.egroups.com/list/christianmusic-list/
Top cited urls for the list
http://www.egroups.com/list/christianmusic-list/info.html?method=showtopurls
In Joy! Diana
Excite's Christian Rock Community
http://mycomm.excite.com/mycomm/browse.asp?cid=31215
Excite's Contemporary Christian Music Community
http://mycomm.excite.com/mycomm/browse.asp?cid=31214
Excite's Gospel Music Community
http://mycomm.excite.com/mycomm/browse.asp?cid=31231
Excite's Southern Gospel Music Community
http://mycomm.excite.com/mycomm/browse.asp?cid=31190
Excite's Christian Music Message Board
http://boards.excite.com/boards/folder?id=12:2
Matt Laswell
: fabdo...@aol.com (FabDoggRec) wrote:
:> ... Please pay attention to what I say from now on.
: must have missed the trumpet fanfare and dancing bears that
: heralded your sage pronouncements.
Hey, are those available for hire? I could use some in meetings at work...
Or at least a pitch shifter, reverb and massive subwoofers to make
me sound alternately like the great and mighty Oz or Barry White...
--
matt laswell -- laswell at jump dot net
"Ultimately, my days are moved by the one who creates time"
- Dan Quisenberry
Matt Laswell
: All _I'm_ saying (and it appears that I'm wasting my time) is that I don't
: believe there's a concerted effort by The Man to keep indie artists Down-
: they just don't know any better, for any number of reasons, and probably
: don't want to.
The man wouldn't give Nat X a whole half hour!
David Murray (SG Fan)
PandaXPRS <pand...@aol.com> wrote in message
19990326012923...@ng-cd1.aol.com...
>>New Artist of the Year Jennifer Knapp
>>Good call, although Burlap is the more demonstratively talented nominee.
>
>hmm... i'll have to disagree to that statement. musically burlap may have
more
>intricate music, but when you strip both of the artists down, jen knapp has
the
>unbelievable lyrics and powerful voice. i think she really deserved it this
>year.
I don't think we're exactly disagreeing. I was saying that Burlap is the
more showy of the two. Jennifer Knapp is very talented, though. She can do
some pretty incredible things without saying "Hey, look at me" the whole
time. I would have been happy if either of these had won. I think Burlap
would have won it, though, if they hadn't received some bad press. The GMA
usually awards the showier, when given a choice.
David Murray /db-m...@rfci.net (to reply remove the dash)
http://www.rfci.net/dbmurray
RMC's Official Resident Southern Gospel Fan
Making hay while the sun shines.
David Murray (SG Fan)
Chuck Pearson <cpea...@gcfn.org> wrote in message
7dgkro$j...@login.freenet.columbus.oh.us...
>Holiglitly (holig...@aol.com) wrote:
>: Wow, you guys will fight about ANYTHING, won't you??
>
>hey, it's USENET. it's our *jobs* to fight about anything.
>
>now, we just gotta see about getting paid for it, that's all. 8-)
You find out how to make that happen Chuck, and we'll all call you Papa. :o)
David Murray (SG Fan)
Holiglitly <holig...@aol.com> wrote in message
19990326102356...@ng-fr1.aol.com...
>Matt, i am confused.... what record are you saying Rich won awards for last
>year?? Not the Jesus Record, it hadn't even been released in time for the
'98
>Doves. Dove nominations had to be in by (i think) August of '98, and TJR
was
>barely even out by then. Eligibility* is* silly though, i will agree with
you
>on that definitely.... many artists have been awarded year after year for
the
>same dad gum song (Bob Carlisle comes to mind immediately)
To my recollection, Bob won one time for one song. A song can't win "Song of
the Year" more than once, but it can be nominated a second year if it didn't
win in the previous year.
>If you have really listened to The Jesus Record, and given this some
thought,
>you have to see why "Songwriter" of the year was the award Rich deserved.
He
>didn't get to finish the record( and i agree that the second disc is way
>over-produced), but the lyrics are amazing.
Here's my problem with Rich winning Songwriter of the Year. There were ten
or so songs on that album. In my opinion, these were average, basically good
songs, but forget my opinion for the moment. Other songwriters who did
nothing but write songs for a living and aren't known as artists and didn't
die to great publicity churned out 50, 75, or more of the same quality
material in the same time period. These folks can't even get nominated. Rich
had what, one or two of his songs on the charts in 1998, yet, because he
died tragically and the GMA voters happen to know his name, he's the
"Songwriter of the Year?"
The same goes for producers. Michael W. Smith is a decent producer and he
produced two or three good albums last year, but to win over Brown
Bannister, who produced a much larger number of equally good projects? Do
the voters even know what's involved with producing? At least Bannister got
nominated. Michael Sykes, who's responsible for almost ALL of the projects
coming from the Spring Hill label can't even get that much recognition. His
artists (The Gaither Vocal Band, The Martins, etc.) usually dominate the
nominees for Southern Gospel and Country, though. The GMA membership needs
to learn how to limit themselves to a specific category when they are
voting. When voting for Songwriter, look at the complete output of songs.
When voting for producer, look at all the work they have done, and base it
on that.
David Murray (SG Fan)
>>"David Murray (SG Fan)" <dbmu...@bogus.spam.net> wrote:
>
><all sorts of lovely opinions about the dove awards snipped>
>
>It would take all day to refute some of your silly comments, so i will just
ask
>one question, concerning this:
You go on to refute one factual error I made in my comments, but it'll be
hard to refute my opinions, since they really ARE my opinions. :o)
>
>>Song of the Year "My Deliverer"
>>"We Fall Down" should have dominated this award. Also, it was presented to
>>the public first in 1998, and, as such, should have been given preference
>>over a rehashed old song. The tribute awards were enough last year.
>
>Would you mind explaining how "My Deliverer" is a "rehashed old song"? It
just
>came out last year ,a nd as i already said, nominations had to be in
sometime
>late last summer.
>
Please see my responses to Annie and Mike. Regrets for my confusion on the
issue.
Again: OOPS!
David Murray (SG Fan)
19990326190351...@ng106.aol.com...
>>From: "David Murray (SG Fan)" <dbmu...@bogus.spam.net>
>>>Matt, i am confused.... what record are you saying Rich won awards for
last
>>>year?? Not the Jesus Record, it hadn't even been released in time for the
>>'98
>>>Doves. Dove nominations had to be in by (i think) August of '98, and TJR
>>was
>>>barely even out by then. Eligibility* is* silly though, i will agree with
>>you
>>>on that definitely.... many artists have been awarded year after year for
>>the
>>>same dad gum song (Bob Carlisle comes to mind immediately)
>>
>>
>>To my recollection, Bob won one time for one song. A song can't win "Song
of
>>the Year" more than once, but it can be nominated a second year if it
didn't
>>win in the previous year.
>
>Kisses" won Song of the Year, but it also won Insp. Recorded Song of the
Year
>in 1997.
That's hardly "year after year for the same dad gum song, though." I don't
think Bob Carlisle's ever won a Dove award for a song other than "Butterfly
Kisses." Songs often win both the overall Song of the Year and one of the
smaller "Blank Song of The Year" categories, which only makes sense. Why
would it be good enough to be "Song Of The Year" if it wasn't good enough to
win in the smaller category? Strangely though, this HAS happened in the
past.
Two Doves is the maximum a single artist can win for one song, but a popular
older tune like "Awesome God" could conceivably win all the Song of the Year
categories in one year, if enough different artists in different categories
recorded it.
Anthony DeBarros
> DCTalk being the crown jewel is my point exactly. They're big time Christian
> music sellers, but signed a $90 million dollar deal
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There is no way that number is accurate. No way at all. What's
your source, Oh Fab One?
Anthony DeBarros
> and if you knew ANYTHING whatsoever about music and charting, you'd know that
> tose charts DO HAVE credibility, and are radio station reporting charts. I'm
> sorry sir, but it is YOU who are speaking out of ignorance.and you better check
> yourself.
In defense of Jerry ...
In the grand scheme of things, airplay on a couple of stations that
happen
to be the ones that report their spins and adds doesn't mean a whole lot
unless it generates sales. What are your sales like? Are you
Soundscan-ing
enough to make it onto Billboard's Heatseekers chart? Just curious.
David Murray (SG Fan)
Anthony DeBarros <deba...@erols.com> wrote in message
36FC3C2E...@erols.com...
>> Excuse me??? Sir, I am NOT lying about anything. Please GO check those
charts.
>> and if you knew ANYTHING whatsoever about music and charting, you'd know
that
>> tose charts DO HAVE credibility, and are radio station reporting charts.
I'm
>> sorry sir, but it is YOU who are speaking out of ignorance.and you better
check
>> yourself.
>
>In defense of Jerry ...
>
>In the grand scheme of things, airplay on a couple of stations that
>happen
>to be the ones that report their spins and adds doesn't mean a whole lot
>unless it generates sales.
I have to agree with the "anyone can be #1" statement by Jerry. I listened
to a Top 10 listener requests on a local Southern Gospel station recently
and it consisted of 9 local groups and one that actually sells music on a
national basis. I think the national act came in at #2 on the chart. It was
some of the worst crap you ever heard: the kind of music that ruins the
reputation of good Southern Gospel. That's why I see more relevance in
charts that get reports from more stations.
At the same time, I understand where Fab Dog is coming from. Many stations
that report to the major charts stick with the safest sounding music and are
influenced by the wooings of the big labels.
If I had a radio station, I'd buck the trend and program the stuff I had to
go out and buy off the shelf so my radio station would sound different. I'd
follow a song by The Cathedrals with a track off of DC Talk's album that
never got released as a single. Then I'd play some VOL and perhaps a nice
bluegrass gospel number to balance things out. I'd report to the national
charts (if they'd let me) and try to start a trend of radio programming that
WASN'T the same stuff over and over. "Heavy rotation" would be a phrase that
was never used.
The current crop of programmers at the average Christian radio station are
like a group of chickens crossing the road. If one starts, they all go as a
group, heedless of whatever's approaching.
MSJanke
>
>
>Holiglitly <holig...@aol.com> wrote in message
>19990326102356...@ng-fr1.aol.com...
>>Matt, i am confused.... what record are you saying Rich won awards for last
>>year?? Not the Jesus Record, it hadn't even been released in time for the
>'98
>>Doves. Dove nominations had to be in by (i think) August of '98, and TJR
>was
>>barely even out by then. Eligibility* is* silly though, i will agree with
>you
>>on that definitely.... many artists have been awarded year after year for
>the
>>same dad gum song (Bob Carlisle comes to mind immediately)
>
>
>To my recollection, Bob won one time for one song. A song can't win "Song of
>the Year" more than once, but it can be nominated a second year if it didn't
>win in the previous year.
I think what she's refering to, correct me if I'm wrong, is that "Butterfly
Kisses" won Song of the Year, but it also won Insp. Recorded Song of the Year
in 1997.
Michael Janke
Visit Cindy Morgan NET:
http://members.aol.com/MSJanke/cindy
===================================
Diane Court: Nobody thinks it will work, do they?
Lloyd Dobler: No. You just described every great success story.
MSJanke
>>Kisses" won Song of the Year, but it also won Insp. Recorded Song of the
>Year
>>in 1997.
>
>
>think Bob Carlisle's ever won a Dove award for a song other than "Butterfly
>Kisses." Songs often win both the overall Song of the Year and one of the
>smaller "Blank Song of The Year" categories, which only makes sense. Why
>would it be good enough to be "Song Of The Year" if it wasn't good enough to
>win in the smaller category? Strangely though, this HAS happened in the
>past.
You're right. Its not the first time that's happened, and theres nothing wrong
with it. I was just trying to figure out the reasoning of the previous
statement.
AnnikaOSU
>go out and buy off the shelf so my radio station would sound different. I'd
>follow a song by The Cathedrals with a track off of DC Talk's album that
>never got released as a single. Then I'd play some VOL and perhaps a nice
>bluegrass gospel number to balance things out. I'd report to the national
>charts (if they'd let me) and try to start a trend of radio programming that
>WASN'T the same stuff over and over. "Heavy rotation" would be a phrase that
>was never used.
>
>The current crop of programmers at the average Christian radio station are
>like a group of chickens crossing the road. If one starts, they all go as a
>group, heedless of whatever's approaching.
Amen brother! When I used to volunteer at a radio station we made sure to do
LOTS of variety. We would do everything from Praise and worship to DCTalk (we
still had to stay to the format, but we stretched it as far as it would go...
and sometimes a little too far!), and often we would break out old stuff that
most people had forgotten about. Plus people were encouraged to call in with
requests... we got alot of variety and good ideas from the people (yes we
actually PLAYED requests... what a concept...) It was wonderful to walk in the
station and over to the cd racks and just start yanking whatever looked
interesting or good... ah... those were the days...
Unfortunatly it was all ruined when it was decided by the "powers that be" at
the station that the DJ should no longer decide what to play and it should all
be scripted and planned out... thus making the DJ nothing more than a
button-pushing monkey.
Annika
Anni...@aol.com
Elizabeth T. Knuth
<dbmu...@bogus.spam.net> allegedly wrote:
> If I had a radio station, I'd buck the trend and program the stuff
> I had to go out and buy off the shelf so my radio station would
> sound different. I'd follow a song by The Cathedrals with a track
> off of DC Talk's album that never got released as a single. Then
> I'd play some VOL and perhaps a nice bluegrass gospel number to
> balance things out.
Let me know when you get your radio station, brother. I haven't
heard any Christian station like that in about 10 years.
I just grabbed a tape from a radio station I used to listen to (too
far way now, and they've fallen to the Adult Contemporary format).
In today's terms, this one tape has:
AC
Inspirational
Rock
Dance
Country
Pop/Top 40/CCM
Traditional Black Gospel
Oldies
Southern Gospel
Praise & Worship
Contemporary (Black) Gospel
I'm not a fan of "inspirational", but then I don't like secular "easy
listening" either. But all the others I do like, and I like a mix.
So why is it that a Christian station nowadays would never be caught
playing, say, Brush Arbor AND Shirley Caesar, or WWMT AND Craig
Smith? [Kids these days, mutter, mutter]
Liz
--
Elizabeth T. Knuth
ekn...@unix.csbsju.edu
http://www.users.csbsju.edu/~eknuth/bmg-ccm/
Unofficial BMG Sound & Spirit Christian Music Guide
David Murray (SG Fan)
MSJanke <msj...@aol.com.NO-SPAM> wrote in message
>
>Just wanted to throw in a comment. I would LOVE to hear a radio station
that
>played the kind of mixes of music that you guys are talking about. But
it's
>not just Christian music that's like this. Mainstream radio is just as, if
not
>more, segmented than Christian radio.
That's the general rule, and it's depressing. I liked Sarah McG's song
"Angel" when I heard it the first twenty times, for example, but when it was
on my radio every single time I tuned into a certain station, I started
changing the channel.
>So I sympathize. I'd love to hear Goo Goo Dolls, Britney Spears, Dixie
Chicks,
>Shania Twain, Celine Dion, Sixpence, Edwin McCain and the Backstreet Boys
all
>on the same station. Or Amy Grant, Plankeye, MxPx, dc Talk, Cindy Morgan,
Jars
>of Clay, Jennifer Knapp, Silage and White Heart.
Or both! That would be cool.
>Let me know if you find a station who has the guts to try it.
There is one that's sort of that way, but it tends to avoid some of the
mainstream artists you listed. A station in our town (WNCW FM 88.7) plays
secular music of all styles one right after the other. They even play a few
gospel songs, though it's most often bluegrass. I have heard them play Take
6 on occassion. Many times, the songs they play are songs and/or artists
I've never heard before. Sometimes the artist is someone who used to be huge
in the mainstream, like Bruce Hornsby or Johnny Cash, who are now basically
ignored by the cookie cutter sheep stations. It's gone over so big, they've
expanded to a translator in Knoxville, TN, and increased power so as to be
heard all over western NC and SC. The station is listener supported, so what
they play is very much geared to the mindset of intelligent listeners who
also happen to have some spare money to help keep them on the air. Also
impressive: unlike the big CCM station in our area, they don't beg for more
money every thirty minutes or so.
MSJanke
Just wanted to throw in a comment. I would LOVE to hear a radio station that
played the kind of mixes of music that you guys are talking about. But it's
not just Christian music that's like this. Mainstream radio is just as, if not
more, segmented than Christian radio. That's just the nature of the industry
right now. You may find an exception in a small town, but in major markets it
just doesnt happen. Everything is niche. There's 3 different kinds of CHR
stations. There's Adult Contemporary and Adult 40. There's your regular
country stations and your hot new country formats. Mainstream rock, Adult
alternative, Alternative, Rock, Urban, Urban Adult Contemporary, etc....
So it's not just Christian music that you find this in. The mainstream
stations are actually the ones who pioneered the tight playlist. I read an
article recently where a few programmers for some major Christian stations were
talking about the changes that radio's gone through in the last couple of
years. The trend in ccm radio to tighten the playlists is pretty recent....
these guys used to have a much broader spectrum of songs that they played. But
arbitron ratings were down, so they followed the lead of the secular stations
and tightened their playlist. BAM -- their market share rose. It's weird, but
it seems people actually WANT to hear the same 40 songs over and over. You can
kind of see this if your station has a nightly most-requested show, like KLTY
does (Top 10 at Ten). Same songs, over and over, requested again and again...
So I sympathize. I'd love to hear Goo Goo Dolls, Britney Spears, Dixie Chicks,
Shania Twain, Celine Dion, Sixpence, Edwin McCain and the Backstreet Boys all
on the same station. Or Amy Grant, Plankeye, MxPx, dc Talk, Cindy Morgan, Jars
of Clay, Jennifer Knapp, Silage and White Heart. Let me know if you find a
station who has the guts to try it.
Holiglitly
wrote:
>Please see my responses to Annie and Mike. Regrets for my confusion on the
>issue.
>
>Again: OOPS!
Yep, i guess i'll have to read every single post before i say anything at all
in the future ;-)
(i think you will recover though)
;-)
amy
Holiglitly
>That's the general rule, and it's depressing. I liked Sarah McG's song
>"Angel" when I heard it the first twenty times, for example, but when it was
>on my radio every single time I tuned into a certain station, I started
>changing the channel.
Sorry, i have to activate my Sarah pet peeve ;-)
McLachlan has no "G" in it.
Thanks and please enjoy the rest of your posting day ;-)
Amy
Holiglitly
>Here's my problem with Rich winning Songwriter of the Year. There were ten
>or so songs on that album. In my opinion, these were average, basically good
>songs, but forget my opinion for the moment. Other songwriters who did
>nothing but write songs for a living and aren't known as artists and didn't
>die to great publicity churned out 50, 75, or more of the same quality
>material in the same time period. These folks can't even get nominated. Rich
>had what, one or two of his songs on the charts in 1998, yet, because he
>died tragically and the GMA voters happen to know his name, he's the
>"Songwriter of the Year?"
Your opinion has been duly noted! :-)
This* is* just a matter of opinion, so there are bound to be some differences,
of course. The Jesus Record, especially its lyrics, touched me more than
anything else i heard in the past year, so in my opinion, it was right to award
Rich with Songwriter of the year, and for the first time ever <g> the GMA
agreed with me.
If the Jesus Record had been a piece of crap, which in my opinion it was not, i
would not have cheered for it..... but i love it, it encourages me, it's in the
cd player about 80% of the time.... it has nothing to do with "Ahhh poor dead
guy"... i mean, heck, he is in heaven, what does he care if the GMA gives him
anything??
Amy
(now if i can just get the Dove people to agree with me that sandy patti shall
receive no more awards!! hee)
Holiglitly
>MSJanke <msj...@aol.com.NO-SPAM> wrote in message
>19990326190351...@ng106.aol.com...
>>>From: "David Murray (SG Fan)" <dbmu...@bogus.spam.net>
>>>
>>>
>>>Holiglitly <holig...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>19990326102356...@ng-fr1.aol.com...
>>>>Matt, i am confused.... what record are you saying Rich won awards for
>last
>>>>year?? Not the Jesus Record, it hadn't even been released in time for the
>>>'98
>>>>Doves. Dove nominations had to be in by (i think) August of '98, and TJR
>>>was
>>>>barely even out by then. Eligibility* is* silly though, i will agree with
>>>you
>>>>on that definitely.... many artists have been awarded year after year for
>>>the
>>>>same dad gum song (Bob Carlisle comes to mind immediately)
>>>
>>>
>>>To my recollection, Bob won one time for one song. A song can't win "Song
>of
>>>the Year" more than once, but it can be nominated a second year if it
>didn't
>>>win in the previous year.
>>
>>I think what she's refering to, correct me if I'm wrong, is that "Butterfly
>>Kisses" won Song of the Year, but it also won Insp. Recorded Song of the
>Year
>>in 1997.
>
>
>That's hardly "year after year for the same dad gum song, though." I don't
>think Bob Carlisle's ever won a Dove award for a song other than "Butterfly
>Kisses." Songs often win both the overall Song of the Year and one of the
>smaller "Blank Song of The Year" categories, which only makes sense. Why
>would it be good enough to be "Song Of The Year" if it wasn't good enough to
>win in the smaller category? Strangely though, this HAS happened in the
>past.
>
>Two Doves is the maximum a single artist can win for one song, but a popular
>older tune like "Awesome God" could conceivably win all the Song of the Year
>categories in one year, if enough different artists in different categories
>recorded it.
>
>
NOPE..... allow me to speak for myself fellas.
In reference to Mr Carlisle... i am not looking at a list of nominations, i am
going on memory alone... it seems to me, and i would ask you to correct me if i
am wrong, but of course there is no need to ask, since you guys seem to get off
on proving others wrong <g> (It's like Itchy and Scratchy in here, i swear)
i was thinking of B.C. being nominated for Best Male Singer in '98, when he had
not put out anything new... that is the category that bugs me a lot, people who
have nothing new out keep getting nominated, just because perhaps they are
still getting airplay off of a 3 year old song.
See what i mean?? Ok, so now that i'm clarified, please tell me what new thing
B.C. had out in 97-98. (i'm not even just hinking of Carlisle, it really does
seem like in the best female/male singer category, people are often nominated,
even when they have nothing new out.)
Ciao
Amy
PS..." Awesome God" never won a Dove.... just that cover version from the
Skalleluia thing.
Jerry B. Ray
FabDoggRec <fabdo...@aol.com> wrote:
>Thirdly, charts. Anyone who knows charts knows that each radio staton has a
>chart that they report to the BIG chart. Each of these smaller charts has
>credibility. Just because a band is #5 on a smaller chart, does not mean they
>do not deserve it, or it is less credible.
Let me try to phrase this differently. Say there's one "songs" chart,
and there are 200 competitors for position on that chart. Divide
that chart into "rock songs" and "country songs," and maybe you've
got 100 competitors. Divide the "rock songs" chart into "Christian
rock" and "mainstream rock," and you'll maybe have 80 competitors on
the "mainstream rock" and 20 on the "Christian rock." Subdivide the
"Christian rock" chart into "Christian metal," "Christian alternative,"
and "Christian pop" [or whatever] and... Well, hopefully you get the
picture. Just saying a band is "#5" doesn't carry much weight. And
saying they're "#5 on a chart with an extremely limited number of
eligible songs" doesn't carry much more.
JRjr, #8 with a bullet...
--
%%%%% vap...@prism.gatech.edu %%%%%%%% Jerry B. Ray, Jr. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
"Hope springs eternal once in awhile"
-- Mark Heard, "Another Day In Limbo" --
Jerry B. Ray
David Murray (SG Fan) <dbmu...@bogus.spam.net> wrote:
>I think Burlap
>would have won it, though, if they hadn't received some bad press.
What bad press was that?
JRjr
Jerry B. Ray
David Murray (SG Fan) <dbmu...@bogus.spam.net> wrote:
>If I had a radio station, I'd buck the trend and program the stuff I had to
>go out and buy off the shelf so my radio station would sound different. I'd
>follow a song by The Cathedrals with a track off of DC Talk's album that
>never got released as a single. Then I'd play some VOL and perhaps a nice
>bluegrass gospel number to balance things out. I'd report to the national
>charts (if they'd let me) and try to start a trend of radio programming that
>WASN'T the same stuff over and over. "Heavy rotation" would be a phrase that
>was never used.
I'm always screaming for diversity on the radio. If I hear that Sugar
Ray song one more time, somebody's gonna pay. But if you get _too_
diverse (i.e., college radio :-), you risk turning everybody off. I
have fairly diverse tastes within the general realm of "pop/rock from
the last 50 years," but even I get kind of annoyed with mix tapes and
my MP3 player if the shifts are TOO dramatic.
That said, I found Lightning 100 in Nashville to be a pretty cool
station, and fairly diverse. I think we heard everything from
Green Day to old Clapton to alt.country to New Order on there this
weekend. (And for the record, "Regret" has passed "Bizarre Love
Triangle" as my favorite all time New Order song.)
Jerry B. Ray
MSJanke <msj...@aol.com.NO-SPAM> wrote:
>So I sympathize. I'd love to hear Goo Goo Dolls, Britney Spears, Dixie Chicks,
>Shania Twain, Celine Dion, Sixpence, Edwin McCain and the Backstreet Boys all
>on the same station.
Ugh. That's certainly no stretch. Atlanta's Star 94, one of the most
vapid, insipid Top 40 stations I've ever heard, plays all that stuff
and more, and runs it completely into the ground. (And with the exception
of Sixpence and "Dizzy" from the Goo Goo Dolls, I wouldn't mind
never hearing any of that stuff again...)
>Or Amy Grant, Plankeye, MxPx, dc Talk, Cindy Morgan, Jars
>of Clay, Jennifer Knapp, Silage and White Heart. Let me know if you find a
>station who has the guts to try it.
As much as I like diversity, I don't really think mixing Amy and Plankeye,
to pick a particularly odd pairing, would fly very well.
Jerry B. Ray
David Murray (SG Fan) <dbmu...@bogus.spam.net> wrote:
>That's the general rule, and it's depressing. I liked Sarah McG's song
>"Angel" when I heard it the first twenty times, for example, but when it was
>on my radio every single time I tuned into a certain station, I started
>changing the channel.
I really didn't like _Surfacing_ very much when I bought it. "Building
A Mystery" had already been killed by radio, and most of the other stuff
was a bit too boring compared to _Fumbling..._, which is one of my
all-time favorite CDs. I came to like "Adia" and "Angel" over time,
and "Sweet Surrender" is one of her best songs. But thanks to various
radio stations overplaying those songs with a mercenary zeal heretofore
seen only in the U[sic]GA football team on "suds and jugs night" at the
Sit'n'Sip, I can barely stand to hear them anymore. Grr.
Jerry B. Ray
Holiglitly <holig...@aol.com> wrote:
>Yep, i guess i'll have to read every single post before i say anything at all
>in the future ;-)
Actually, that _is_ standard procedure. Keeps you from repeating what
others have already said, or from going back over ground that's already
been covered.
Jerry B. Ray
Holiglitly <holig...@aol.com> wrote:
>Sorry, i have to activate my Sarah pet peeve ;-)
>McLachlan has no "G" in it.
And "Carman" has no "e" in it. :-)
I love Sarah McLachlan. I picked up cheap import CD singles of "Hold On"
and "Good Enough" this weekend. Passed on the "Possesion" single, though,
since it didn't have any track I didn't already have on it.
Jerry B. Ray
Holiglitly <holig...@aol.com> wrote:
>it seems to me, and i would ask you to correct me if i
>am wrong, but of course there is no need to ask, since you guys seem to get off
>on proving others wrong <g> (It's like Itchy and Scratchy in here, i swear)
You seem to be really hung up on this issue. It's certainly not as bad
as you seem to think it is. Disagreement does not imply animosity.
Jerry B. Ray
FabDoggRec <fabdo...@aol.com> wrote:
>Wrong idea Jerry...I'm sorry but you have no clue about what you're talking
>about. I would advise you to check out these chart sites and learn the charting
>system.
Sigh.
>Each of these 4 use charts from radio stations around the globe to determine
>who makes the Big 4. So you don't split between mainstream and christian. Each
>style has their own chart, so there's not one "big chart" with Country, Rap,
>Rock, and AC.
I'm perfectly aware of that, thanks. The point I was trying to illustrate,
which you still don't seem to grasp is...
>What I'm saying is, a Rap artist with a #5 single on a Rhythmic chart does
>deserve their position, and they have that right to claim they own a #5 single.
What I'M saying is that if there are only 5 singles eligible for a chart,
being #5 doesn't carry much weight. Capice?
loserboy
>Disagreement does not imply animosity.
I DISSAGREE!!!!1! YOU PEOPEL ARENT CHRISTAINS HERE!!!1!!
GLENN!!1!!!
--
yoU dON't EXpEct tO liVe IN ThIS pLacE WIThOut iT LeAviN' IT's
MaRK, dO YoU? iF yOU DO, yOu'RE LiVIn' iN a DREAMLAND, bOY
http://www.failure.net/loserboy
liArS CAn'T BE tRUsTed...
FabDoggRec
and there are 200 competitors for position on that chart. Divide that chart
into "rock songs" and "country songs," and maybe you've
got 100 competitors. Divide the "rock songs" chart into "Christian rock" and
"mainstream rock," and you'll maybe have 80 competitors on the "mainstream
rock" and 20 on the "Christian rock." Subdivide the "Christian rock" chart
into "Christian metal," "Christian alternative," and "Christian pop" [or
whatever] and... Well, hopefully you get the
picture. Just saying a band is "#5" doesn't carry much weight. And saying
they're "#5 on a chart with an extremely limited number of
eligible songs" doesn't carry much more.<<<
Wrong idea Jerry...I'm sorry but you have no clue about what you're talking
about. I would advise you to check out these chart sites and learn the charting
system.
For one, I'm talking christian charts, not mainstream.
There are the big four -
1. CCM (ccmcom.com),
2. Jamsline (jamsline.com),
3. Progressive Airplay Journal (purerock.net), and
4. Billboard (billboard.com).
Of course there are more such as Gavin, etc., but I'm speaking on Christian
music only.
Each of these charts, with the exception of Billboard, is divided into 3 to 4
chart segments:
1. CHR Chart (Christian Hit Radio - Rock/Rap/Pop/AC - The overall Chart based
on all styles)
2. Progressive Rock Chart (Alternative, Metal, and Modern),
3. AC Top 40 Chart (The boring stuff).
and on some,
4. Rhythmic Chart (Rap/R&B)
Each of these 4 use charts from radio stations around the globe to determine
who makes the Big 4. So you don't split between mainstream and christian. Each
style has their own chart, so there's not one "big chart" with Country, Rap,
Rock, and AC.
David Murray (SG Fan)
loserboy <gt1...@prism.gatech.edu> wrote in message
7dmsoi$l...@acmez.gatech.edu...
>Jerry B. Ray <vap...@prism.gatech.edu> wrote:
>>Disagreement does not imply animosity.
>
>I DISSAGREE!!!!1! YOU PEOPEL ARENT CHRISTAINS HERE!!!1!!
Thank you, J. And a "Thwap!" to you anyway!
John v.
> (And for the record, "Regret" has passed "Bizarre Love
>Triangle" as my favorite all time New Order song.)
WOO HOO!!!!!!!!!!!!
personally BLT is imho one of the worst of the bunch ... along with blue
monday ... unfortunately those are the only two the clubs ever play ...
John v.
David Murray (SG Fan)
Jerry B. Ray <vap...@prism.gatech.edu> wrote in message
7dmo21$2...@acmey.gatech.edu...
>In article <92249067...@news.remarQ.com>,
>>would have won it, though, if they hadn't received some bad press.
>
>What bad press was that?
.. . . that all of them aren't professing Christians. I'm sorry I can't
recall where I first heard this, though. It may have been here in the
newsgroup.
I do know that Steve Taylor stated that they WERE all professing Christians
in a recent CCM interview. I also know that Retroman disagreed with that
assessment after I pointed it out to him on 2/16 in the "Definition Bans
Three" thread here in RMC.
There were some implications in the CCM story that there had been some
incident(s) about their choice of language. It was rather vague about the
details, though. The article said they enjoyed wearing leather jackets and
"talking in a Brooklyn accent," which may or may not imply that they like to
swear. There was also some talk in the article about how they had found it
difficult to fit in in the industry, etc. Whether they truly are bad boys or
not, they have somewhat of a "bad boy" image in the industry, as is
evidenced by a bona fide Nashville insider's (Retroman's) statements.
Such an image doesn't win favors with the GMA membership.
David Murray (SG Fan)
>I'm always screaming for diversity on the radio. If I hear that Sugar
>Ray song one more time, somebody's gonna pay. But if you get _too_
>diverse (i.e., college radio :-)
The station that I was referring to is actually owned by a college, but
unlike the stereotypical "college station," they don't have pimple faced
freshmen on the air. Professionals run it. The mix is very diverse, as I've
said. The DJ's generally seem to have impeccable taste in music quality
while generally not excluding ANY style they think is really good. They
usually play sets of four or five songs that are similar in style. It gets
out there on some occassions when they get into some wild jazz by Chick
Corea or Bobby McFerrin, but most of the time it's fairly mainstream
sounding, the exception being that they play different tunes all the time.
Another bonus is that at the end of every set, they tell you the artists and
song titles you just heard. (Hear! Hear!)
We are blessed, but I still long for a similar station that would make only
one limitation: Christian music.
>That said, I found Lightning 100 in Nashville to be a pretty cool
>station, and fairly diverse. I think we heard everything from
>Green Day to old Clapton to alt.country to New Order on there this
>weekend. (And for the record, "Regret" has passed "Bizarre Love
>Triangle" as my favorite all time New Order song.)
It can be done. Unfortunately, the Program Directors at most stations are
wimps.
David Murray (SG Fan)
David Murray (SG Fan) <dbmu...@bogus.spam.net> wrote in message
92268668...@news.remarQ.com...
>
>loserboy <gt1...@prism.gatech.edu> wrote in message
>7dmsoi$l...@acmez.gatech.edu...
>>Jerry B. Ray <vap...@prism.gatech.edu> wrote:
>>>Disagreement does not imply animosity.
>>
>>I DISSAGREE!!!!1! YOU PEOPEL ARENT CHRISTAINS HERE!!!1!!
>
>
>Thank you, J. And a "Thwap!" to you anyway!
Clarification:
I'm not mistaking Loserboy for JBRay. I'm referring to another who posts
under the "J" moniker.
Thanks for the laugh, Loserboy!
Brian Trosko
: personally BLT is imho one of the worst of the bunch ... along with blue
I've heard "True Faith" occasionally.
Too occasionally.
Anyone remember the weird-ass MTV video? Ah, for the days of 80's New
Wave.
Brian "*Really* weird-ass" Trosko
snail
>loserboy <gt1...@prism.gatech.edu> wrote in message
>Thank you, J. And a "Thwap!" to you anyway!
I'm sorry, but thwapping is out of line here. Loserboy was referring
to a specific group called "PEOPEL" not to be confused, as you have
obviously done, with "people".
Please stand in the corner so we can throw things at you
--
snail | sn...@careless.net.au | http://www.careless.net.au/~snail/
I'm a man of my word. In the end, that's all there is. - Avon
---------- [radio: http://www.careless.net.au/~misfits] ----------
FabDoggRec
and how often does that occur? ever seen a chart with 5 positions?
:/
Oooo
oooO ( )
( ) ) / "Wherever your foot shall tread, I have given it to you"
\ ( (_/
\_)