The Roger Martinez thing: some useful info (NOT opinion)
The KCMOSHer
Hey howdy, all, KCMOSHer here (been awhile since I've darkened the
hallowed halls of RMC...nice to see things are still poppin').
Here's some "inside" info on the whole Martinez thing. Well, not
"inside" necessarily, but it appears I have info no one else has
chosen to share. (No big feat on my part, I just happen to be nosy
and old enough to remember this stuff.)
Some of this stuff will probably bother alot of folks on here, so
anyone it offends, sorry, but the truth is the truth. If anything
here is incorrect, it's news to me, and it's 6-year-old news at that.
As most familiar with Martinez and Vengeance are aware, the original
line-up left after "Once Dead". "Destruction Comes" was pretty much a
one-man act with some hired help, and on "Released Upon The Earth"
he'd formed an entirely new band (they even did a kickin' tour)
featuring George Ochoa (Deliverance) on guitar, Johnny Velasquez (did
some shows with Mortification) on drums.
The split with the first line-up was apparently pretty nasty. After
the 'Released" tour and about the time the "best of" comp. came out,
RM sent out a pack to most of the known Christian music press
(including, at the time, myself...I was still working for The Oracle
out of Australia) detailing his gripes with the record company
(Frontline) and his ex-bandmates who were now Die Happy. (This was
pre-Chaisson).
The pack was full of rambling text, at times incoherent. At best, it
was eccentric. At worst, it was imbalanced. He refused to name
Vengeance by name, kept calling it "Nathan" for some reason known only
to him. That kinda thing.
However, through the weirdness, he had what appeared to be some pretty
well-based claims. Much of what he spoke of I was already familiar
with, especially with his claims about the record label (Frontline).
Even Jimmy Brown, eventually one of the main guys at Frontline, spent
his first tour with Deliverance bashing the label at any opportunity.
Many of the things he accused his ex-bandmates of seemed well-founded
as well, although I never followed them up (I was about to drop-out of
the journalist biz for good...didn't have the time to dedicate to
following up on the story).
The summation was that RM, the one financially-founded kinda guy in
the band, had fronted a large sum of dough in the form of a loan he
took and such, to put on a Vengeance tour for Once Dead. Problem is,
RM said his bandmates, never truly into the speedy stuff they played,
had already conceived Die Happy and had a deal with Frontline to make
it happen. Instead of doing the tour, they spent the money on new
gear for themselves, then proceeded to split and sign with Frontline
within days.
Mind you, this is RM's story, NOT mine (no libel suits here).
If all this happened to him, he had a very good reason to be irked,
needless to say.
Around this time, Sanctuary, the church that Vengeance was a huge part
of, started to come apart to a certain extent. (I'm referring to the
South Bay "headquarters", not the branches such as San Diego which
were still together as of last year.) From people I've talked to who
left during this period, Roger felt really burned by them. He wasn't
alone.
Note: I'm NOT passing judgement on Sanctuary. I knew many people
there once upon a time and the church, even at a remote distance,
played a very big part in my development as a Christian. However,
some of my friends who used to attend say there were major problems,
and apparently, Roger was one of them.
It was soon after this that the rumors of Roger reverting to his dope
using/dealing Satanic ways started to circulate. I spoke to a couple
of people who would know, to see if any of it was true. One wouldn't
comment at all, the other simply said that Roger did alot of drugs
when he was young, and he put it pretty bluntly: his brain just didn't
survive alot. He said that Roger had been borderline for years,
eccentric to the point that he worried some that knew him.
So, there's what I know. Unless it's all false (like I said, since
most of it is reporting viewpoints given by those directly involved,
it's kinda hard to picture a conspiracy of unrelated people) it shapes
into a pretty sad story. If what Roger says is true really happened,
he's probably one pretty bitter fellow. If what those I spoke to
afterwards is true, he's probably pretty bitter and fairly troubled.
the filling-in-the-blanks KCMOSHer
----------------------------------------------------
The illustrious KCMOSHer: playtester, musician, and
general public nuisance. Or perhaps his lovely fiancee
Theresa: student, artist, and general Tigger fanatic.
----------------------------------------------------
(Remove NOSPAM from address for e-mail.)
Lambchild1
Thanks for the info, bro.....I've been wondering for some time now what
happened to Roger...Yeah...I'd be bummed too! But you can't give up on
God.
Roger's lyrics & general style was GREAT!!! Original too! I'm praying for
him!
Eddie Lambchild.
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/9521/index.html
DJ George
The KCMOSHer wrote:
Actually, it is true. Just right when VR split because the selfish
members of Die Happy (should not call themselves Christian, but
satanic), I sent a check to RM to order some stuff (t-shirts, etc). He
replied my order with an explanation of how he could not process my
order and gave explanations. It is pretty clear that he was going
through frustrations (I would if I had a debt of $17k). This should
not have happened to him. He was serving God and some unsensitive
so-called christian messed up rockers (Die Happy) set him up. Yeah, I
will keep prayin' for RM.
Dj George,
Larry Seiler
....
> some of my friends who used to attend say there were major problems,
> and apparently, Roger was one of them.
>
> It was soon after this that the rumors of Roger reverting to his dope
> using/dealing Satanic ways started to circulate. I spoke to a couple
> of people who would know, to see if any of it was true. One wouldn't
> comment at all, the other simply said that Roger did alot of drugs
> when he was young, and he put it pretty bluntly: his brain just didn't
> survive alot. He said that Roger had been borderline for years,
> eccentric to the point that he worried some that knew him.
>
> So, there's what I know. Unless it's all false (like I said, since
> most of it is reporting viewpoints given by those directly involved,
> it's kinda hard to picture a conspiracy of unrelated people) it shapes
> into a pretty sad story. If what Roger says is true really happened,
> he's probably one pretty bitter fellow. If what those I spoke to
> afterwards is true, he's probably pretty bitter and fairly troubled.
>
their last production at Cornerstone Festival, and we spoke with Pastor
Bob Beeman...the pastor of Sanctuary Church. I myself am in a band, had
been a youth pastor and youth ministry for quite a few years. I won't
get into sordid talk, but Tony was soft spoken and downhearted. The guys
in Sacred Warrior had been long friends with members of Vengeance.
Apparently, and Pastor Bob agreed, at that time, I believe two fests
ago now...Roger was struggling with sins of the former flesh...their
testimony, not mine. Tony requested that will only hold Roger up in
prayer.
Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. Unfortunately, we
ascribe a certain spiritual maturity to those of talent and leave little
room for them to stumble..which often causes enough room to stumble!
It is obvious for anyone that found themselves defending the use of
heavymetal and deathmetal as a vehicle for Christian music, that you
know the depth of Vengeance's lyrics. We must believe that Gods word
will not return void, and I choose to believe that we ought to be
praying for circumstances that will bring Roger back...and that stones
thrown not effect further delay.
Larry Seiler of "Beggar's Joy!"
lse...@eau.net
Larry Seiler
....
> some of my friends who used to attend say there were major problems,
> and apparently, Roger was one of them.
>
> It was soon after this that the rumors of Roger reverting to his dope
> using/dealing Satanic ways started to circulate. I spoke to a couple
> of people who would know, to see if any of it was true. One wouldn't
> comment at all, the other simply said that Roger did alot of drugs
> when he was young, and he put it pretty bluntly: his brain just didn't
> survive alot. He said that Roger had been borderline for years,
> eccentric to the point that he worried some that knew him.
>
> So, there's what I know. Unless it's all false (like I said, since
> most of it is reporting viewpoints given by those directly involved,
> it's kinda hard to picture a conspiracy of unrelated people) it shapes
> into a pretty sad story. If what Roger says is true really happened,
> he's probably one pretty bitter fellow. If what those I spoke to
> afterwards is true, he's probably pretty bitter and fairly troubled.
>
Larry Seiler
DJ George wrote:
>
> The KCMOSHer wrote:
>
> Actually, it is true. Just right when VR split because the selfish
> members of Die Happy (should not call themselves Christian, but
> satanic), I sent a check to RM to order some stuff (t-shirts, etc). He
> replied my order with an explanation of how he could not process my
> order and gave explanations. It is pretty clear that he was going
> through frustrations (I would if I had a debt of $17k). This should
> not have happened to him. He was serving God and some unsensitive
> so-called christian messed up rockers (Die Happy) set him up. Yeah, I
> will keep prayin' for RM.
>
PPpppuulllleeease..let's becareful with the who is satanic bit huh???
I'm 42 years old..I was there when the "hair was satanic", there when
the "musician's clothes" were satanic, there when the "beat" was
satanic..right from the jungles of demonize Africans, there when "loud
guitars" were satanic...and there when reaching the lost in "any other
way but ours" was satanic. Do not be like so many others..please!
Only God is transcendent above all others, all knowing, all loving, all
powerful, and everywhere present. We are told in scripture to not curse
God's annointed. You do not know for a fact that members of Die Happy
are satanic..and you may pour down judgement upon yourself. I happen to
have met some of the members of Die Happy...please, not many of the
members of bands you hold in high esteem would agree to be at peace with
your attack. God alone is judge.
Larry
George Li Tsai
Jason and Heather
DJ George <tsa...@er4.eng.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>
> Actually, it is true. Just right when VR split because the selfish
> members of Die Happy (should not call themselves Christian, but
> satanic),
That's an insult to satanists.
jason
r.m.c resident atheist
--
"The man who marries a modern woman marries a woman who expects to vote
like a man, smoke like a man, have her hair cut like a man, and go without
restrictions and without chaperones and obey nobody."
BOBBED HAIR - John R. Rice, 1941 http://www.primenet.com/~steiners/
Scholar and Fool
While still dazed, The KCMOSHer <the...@tstonramp.NOSPAM.com> muttered:
>The pack was full of rambling text, at times incoherent. At best, it
>was eccentric. At worst, it was imbalanced.
>If all this happened to him, he had a very good reason to be irked,
>needless to say.
>If what Roger says is true really happened,
>he's probably one pretty bitter fellow. If what those I spoke to
>afterwards is true, he's probably pretty bitter and fairly troubled.
I've got copies of all of the letters that he sent out to (as far as
I know) the VR mailing list at the time. It seemed that most of what
happened to him with the guys in Die Happy was fairly well documented,
and most likely true. Plus, I never saw them deny it or refute it in
any way. However, he also wrote about a lot of other stuff that was
going on with him, and he seemed pretty...unstable...in the letters.
Lots of ranting, raving, cussing, etc. (Not that in some cases it
wasn't justified.)
The article that they ran in Visions of Grey about experiences with
him later just seemed to verify what the letters suggested.
And, now, we've got the web page. I looked at it last night...it's
hilarious once you get over the couple of seconds of sorrow and
sympathy you feel for the guy. I suggest that anyone who isn't
offended by copious amounts of coarse language and someone trashing
your beliefs in the most vulgar and "inventive" ways they can think of,
go and check out the site.
http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~toaster
go to Links, then go to the Vengeance Rising link.
It's a hoot. Myself and my roommate were laughing for probably a
couple of hours after reading it. If you enjoy reading the writing
of someone who's totally pissed off and thinking irrationally, you
should enjoy it. Especially wonderful were the lyrics to his new
song from the upcoming album. Oh man, that was a side-splitter!
Maybe I shouldn't think it's funny....but IT IS!
--
will the slamming ever slow? ...no. -the crucified
Scholar & Fool / hatf...@phoenix.net %*&$@#%&$%*%&# '94 Kawasaki Vulcan 750
Lorenz M. Schmiege, III
In article <3371ED...@eau.net>, lse...@eau.net writes...
>PPpppuulllleeease..let's becareful with the who is satanic bit huh???
>I'm 42 years old..I was there when the "hair was satanic", there when
>the "musician's clothes" were satanic, there when the "beat" was
>satanic..right from the jungles of demonize Africans, there when "loud
>guitars" were satanic...and there when reaching the lost in "any other
>way but ours" was satanic. Do not be like so many others..please!
Larry,
I respect your experience & agree w/ what you say.
I'm not sure, however, what inpired it. While I might be wrong, I think
that DJ George described Die Happy as satanic because he considers them
selfish. He even described them as such. I wouldn't be surprised if DJ George
liked their style of music. Like DJ George, I'm sure that you don't consider
selfishness to be a desirable trait in a Christian. While DJ George's comments
are too harsh, I think that you too probably agree more than you think.
Let's put down our flamethrowers, try more to respond in love, & not throw
the word "satanist" around loosely..
Love,
LMS3
Lorenz M. Schmiege, III
In article <5l2m3d$2hc$1...@uhura1.phoenix.net>, hatf...@alpha1.phoenix.net
(Scholar and Fool) writes...
>Maybe I shouldn't think it's funny....but IT IS!
My reaction was a bitter combo of laughter, remorse, & fascination.
RM kept talking about Christianity controlling people thru fear. (He had a
colorful metaphor for this.) Did he ever serve God thru love rather than fear?
Love,
LMS3
MICHAEL SMITH
Jason and Heather (stei...@primenet.com) wrote:
: DJ George <tsa...@er4.eng.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
: >
: > Actually, it is true. Just right when VR split because the selfish
: > members of Die Happy (should not call themselves Christian, but
: > satanic),
: That's an insult to satanists.
As an atheist, I'm surprised you'd care ;)
Peace and disinformation Mike Smith
--
x