Query: U2, God Part II and Larry Norman
-Andy Whitman
<eco...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
>On U2's Rattle and Hum, there is a song called God Part II (one of the better
>tunes on that album). The lyrics (apparently written by Bono) follow the pattern
>
>I don't believe in <something>, I don't believe in <something else>
>I don't believe in <something else>, I don't believe in <something else>
>I don't believe in <something else>, I don't believe in <something else>
>but I, I believe in love.
>
>So what, you say. Well, a few days ago someone included some Larry Norman
>lyrics in a post and they were very similar to the above. Firstly, can someone
>who knows the Norman song please post the lyrics to it and secondly what, if
>any, is the connection between the two. Normans name is not mentioned anywhere
>in the R&H liner notes (although credit for one line of God Part II is given to
>Bruce Cockburn - something about kicking the darkness until it bleeds light)
The real connection is that both the U2 and LN songs are direct responses
to John Lennon's "God," released on the "Plastic Ono Band" album from
1970. My guess is that both U2 and LN are directly responding to
Lennon rather than LN responding to U2.
Lennon's song starts out "God is a concept by which we measure our pain"
and then moves into a long litany of people/things he doesn't believe in,
including the Bible, Krishna, Buddha, Jesus, Elvis, Zimmerman, and Beatles.
What does he believe in? "I just believe in me. Yoko and me, that's
reality." A terribly sad song, indicative of Our Boy's utter lostness,
but very moving in its despair.
BTW, the Cockburn line is taken from "Lovers in a Dangerous Time,"
a great song on "Stealing Fire".
>Waiting with interest,
>
>Aaron
>
>THE ROCK STOMPS HERE!
Andy Whitman
AT&T Network Systems
Columbus, Ohio
a...@cblph.att.com
Tom Senor
Whitman) wrote:
> The real connection is that both the U2 and LN songs are direct responses
> to John Lennon's "God," released on the "Plastic Ono Band" album from
> 1970. My guess is that both U2 and LN are directly responding to
> Lennon rather than LN responding to U2.
While I don't have any direct evidence that this is wrong, I don't think it
is plausible. Have you heard both the LN and the U2 song, Andy? They are
very, very much alike, in both tune and lyrics. They resemble each other
*much* more than either resembles the original Lennon tune. Seems to me
that it would be darn near miraculous if LN and U2 had each written their
tunes without having heard the other. Given that the U2 song was released
years before LN's, and that it is very likely that LN keeps up with U2
(and very unlikely that U2 keeps up with LN), I strongly suspect that LN
borrowed from U2. He probably thought that Bono and Co. were not clear
enough in saying "I believe in love" and decided he could do better.
> Andy Whitman
> AT&T Network Systems
> Columbus, Ohio
> a...@cblph.att.com
--
Tom Senor
University of Arkansas
se...@comp.uark.edu
Opinions expressed are entirely my own and do not represent those of the
UA.
GOAH
>btw, the liner notes to _stranded_in_babylon_ do say that LN had written his
Am I then correct that LN's God song is on his stranded in babylon CD? I am
very interested in hearing it.
goah
-Andy Whitman
Tom Senor <se...@comp.uark.edu> wrote:
>In article <Cy6Ms...@nntpa.cb.att.com>, a...@cblph.cb.att.com (-Andy
>Whitman) wrote:
>
>> The real connection is that both the U2 and LN songs are direct responses
>> to John Lennon's "God," released on the "Plastic Ono Band" album from
>> 1970. My guess is that both U2 and LN are directly responding to
>> Lennon rather than LN responding to U2.
>
>While I don't have any direct evidence that this is wrong, I don't think it
>is plausible. Have you heard both the LN and the U2 song, Andy? They are
>very, very much alike, in both tune and lyrics. They resemble each other
>*much* more than either resembles the original Lennon tune.
I've heard the U2 song but not the Larry Norman song. I guess I'm basing
my comments on the fact that both the U2 and LN songs use the following
lyrical format:
I don't believe in <something>
I don't believe in <something else>
etc.
And then conclude with
But I believe in <something>
This is exactly the lyrical format used in the Lennon song, which
certainly looks suspiciously like both U2 and LN are responding to
Lennon's original, which predates the U2 and LN versions by many
years.
>Seems to me
>that it would be darn near miraculous if LN and U2 had each written their
>tunes without having heard the other. Given that the U2 song was released
>years before LN's, and that it is very likely that LN keeps up with U2
>(and very unlikely that U2 keeps up with LN), I strongly suspect that LN
>borrowed from U2. He probably thought that Bono and Co. were not clear
>enough in saying "I believe in love" and decided he could do better.
You could be right, and certainly if the music in LN's version is
similar to U2's then there's no doubt in my mind that you're right.
I'm just pointing out that Lennon started the whole mess :-). The
lyrical structure of both the U2 and LN songs is a pretty clear
indication to me that both of the "follow-ups" were responding to
the original.
Benjamin Moir
: > The real connection is that both the U2 and LN songs are direct responses
: > to John Lennon's "God," released on the "Plastic Ono Band" album from
: > 1970. My guess is that both U2 and LN are directly responding to
: > Lennon rather than LN responding to U2.
Agreed. I believed both versions (ie.U2 and LN) were responding to Lennon.
: *much* more than either resembles the original Lennon tune. Seems to me
: that it would be darn near miraculous if LN and U2 had each written their
: tunes without having heard the other. Given that the U2 song was released
: years before LN's, and that it is very likely that LN keeps up with U2
: (and very unlikely that U2 keeps up with LN), I strongly suspect that LN
: borrowed from U2. He probably thought that Bono and Co. were not clear
: enough in saying "I believe in love" and decided he could do better.
Larry discussed this a bit before singing it a few weeks ago (when he was
in Canada). From what I gather, Larry had written his version in
response to Lennon, but U2's version was released before he (LN) could
release his. I think (??) LN's version was originally called God Part
II, but when U2 released their ver., LN had to go with "God Part III".
This is MY understanding of the song titles....but I could very well be
wrong in my understanding...
Ben
---
Tagline thought: Do you ever wonder why underwear gets turned inside
out in the laundry?
Ok....so _I_ am the only one....sheesh...
eco...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz
tunes on that album). The lyrics (apparently written by Bono) follow the pattern
I don't believe in <something>, I don't believe in <something else>
I don't believe in <something else>, I don't believe in <something else>
I don't believe in <something else>, I don't believe in <something else>
but I, I believe in love.
So what, you say. Well, a few days ago someone included some Larry Norman
lyrics in a post and they were very similar to the above. Firstly, can someone
who knows the Norman song please post the lyrics to it and secondly what, if
any, is the connection between the two. Normans name is not mentioned anywhere
in the R&H liner notes (although credit for one line of God Part II is given to
Bruce Cockburn - something about kicking the darkness until it bleeds light)
Tigre Tigre
: Tom Senor (se...@comp.uark.edu) wrote:
: release his. I think (??) LN's version was originally called God Part
It seems a little coincidental that he would use that particular form for
titleing his sequel. Why not "God II" or "Son of God":-) or "The Return of
God" or "Gods" [Dodge lightning bolt, :-)] or "G2". I think either Larry
had no title in mind or maybe had a slightly different title in mind, but
decided to follow along the God Part X format after U2 released theirs.
Grace and Peace,
-Titi
--
/~/ |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
/~~ ~/ MARANA |Titiimaea "The WILD Samoan" \ President, founder, and sole |
~/ /~~ THA! |Alai...@Eniac.SEAS.UPenn.Edu\ member of the Penn Samoan Club|
/_/ |______________________________\______________________________|
"ain't no yankee jive/ain't no commie plot/I don't lean left or right/
I stand on solid rock" - Steve Taylor "Down Under"
Tom Senor
dope...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Douglas C Pearson) wrote:
> Tom Senor <se...@comp.uark.edu> wrote:
> >> The real connection is that both the U2 and LN songs are direct responses
> >> to John Lennon's "God," released on the "Plastic Ono Band" album from
> >> 1970. My guess is that both U2 and LN are directly responding to
> >> Lennon rather than LN responding to U2.
>
> >While I don't have any direct evidence that this is wrong, I don't think it
> >is plausible. Have you heard both the LN and the U2 song, Andy? They are
> >very, very much alike, in both tune and lyrics. They resemble each other
> >*much* more than either resembles the original Lennon tune. Seems to me
> >that it would be darn near miraculous if LN and U2 had each written their
> >tunes without having heard the other. Given that the U2 song was released
> >years before LN's, and that it is very likely that LN keeps up with U2
> >(and very unlikely that U2 keeps up with LN), I strongly suspect that LN
> >borrowed from U2. He probably thought that Bono and Co. were not clear
> >enough in saying "I believe in love" and decided he could do better.
>
> chuck will take occasion to disagree with tom. i don't think the LN and u2
> "God part x" songs sound anything like each other...
Really? I'm surprised, but I've called Doug, "Insightful Chuck" in the
past, so who am I to say he's wrong?
> sneak in a few killer lines into the song ("i don't believe the devil, i don't
> believe his book, but the truth is not the same without the lies he made up"
Doesn't the fact that Larry also includes a line about not believing the
devil suggest that these songs weren't written in isolation from each
other?
> btw, the liner notes to _stranded_in_babylon_ do say that LN had written his
> song as "God part II" before u2 came out with their version, and decided that
> two "God part II" songs floating around wouldn't really be a wise thing. 8-)
Hmmm. I have the "American Mix" of _Stranded_ and I double checked last
night and the notes on this version don't say that. Interesting. I should
say that had I known Larry claimed to have written his song independently,
I'd not have publicly stated that I doubted he had. RMC is not the place
to accuse the a brother of lying.
Evan McLean
If someone could post the lyrics to all three songs in question, then
we could all appreciate the argument.
Evan
--
e...@daneel.rdt.monash.edu.au | "I have never listened to anyone who criticized
(Occasionaly thought | my taste in space travel, sideshows or gorillas.
of as Evan McLean) | When this occurs, I pack up my dinosaurs and
-----------------------------+ leave the room." -- Ray Bradbury 1980. Age 60
Ezra Tassone
>Tom Senor (se...@comp.uark.edu) wrote:
>: *much* more than either resembles the original Lennon tune. Seems to me
>: that it would be darn near miraculous if LN and U2 had each written their
>: tunes without having heard the other. Given that the U2 song was released
>: years before LN's, and that it is very likely that LN keeps up with U2
>: (and very unlikely that U2 keeps up with LN), I strongly suspect that LN
>: borrowed from U2. He probably thought that Bono and Co. were not clear
>: enough in saying "I believe in love" and decided he could do better.
>Larry discussed this a bit before singing it a few weeks ago (when he was
>in Canada). From what I gather, Larry had written his version in
>response to Lennon, but U2's version was released before he (LN) could
>release his. I think (??) LN's version was originally called God Part
>II, but when U2 released their ver., LN had to go with "God Part III".
>This is MY understanding of the song titles....but I could very well be
>wrong in my understanding...
I think you're right. I also heard that Larry Norman had to call
his song "God Part III" because U2's song came out first.
By the way, that comment by the original poster -- "and very unlikely
that U2 keeps up with LN" -- I think you might be wrong here! I have
heard that Bono and the Edge are quite good friends with Larry. So
those who have doubted U2 might have to think again -- they can't be
that bad as they seem to have Larry's seal of approval! :-)
[Note the smiley and save your flames -- it was just an attempt at
a joke!]
Ezra Tassone
University of Western Australia
--
**********************************************************************
* "Your public image is interactive: People stick on arms, an extra *
* leg; it's sort of a RoboBono thing." -- Bono, "Details", Feb '94 *
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Yes.
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bmn...@bga.com |
Chris Reuter
Benjamin Moir <bm...@uoguelph.ca> wrote:
>Tom Senor (se...@comp.uark.edu) wrote:
>
>: > The real connection is that both the U2 and LN songs are direct responses
>: > to John Lennon's "God," released on the "Plastic Ono Band" album from
>: > 1970. My guess is that both U2 and LN are directly responding to
>: > Lennon rather than LN responding to U2.
>
>Larry discussed this a bit before singing it a few weeks ago (when he was
>in Canada). From what I gather, Larry had written his version in
>response to Lennon, but U2's version was released before he (LN) could
>release his. I think (??) LN's version was originally called God Part
>II, but when U2 released their ver., LN had to go with "God Part III".
sampler Word puts out each month in Canada.
If you look at the lyric sheet for "Rattle And Hum", you will see
"For John Lennon" at the bottom of the lyrics for "God PartII"..
BTW, I once heard a song called "God Part III" by Fluffy (I think). It
sounded nothing like the other "God" songs, but I guess it means
LN doesn't keep up with the Christian punk scene.
--Chris
Peter David THOMPSON
Song" from the Spark Music (European) version:
"God Part III" - Upon leaving the Beatles, John Lennon wrote a song called
"God" which began "I don't believe in Beatles, I don't believe in God," and
ended up "I just believe in Yono and me, and that's reality." Lennon also
wrote "Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try." Larry decided to
write in response to John's song but never released "God Part II." When
U2 released their song "God Part II" Larry remembered his song and decided
to record it on _Stranded In Babylon_. With thoughtful rewrites he layed
down "God Part III" with several verses left over. Charly plays the wah
wah pedal to evoke the early seventies.
Peter "Original sources? Surely you jest! Not on rmc!" Thompson
Dale Schouten
>
>This comes verbatim from the section of the liner notes entitled "Song By
>Song" from the Spark Music (European) version:
>
>U2 released their song "God Part II" Larry remembered his song and decided
>to record it on _Stranded In Babylon_. With thoughtful rewrites he layed
>down "God Part III" with several verses left over.
Does the U2 and the LN song sound similar, musically?
Do either of them recall the sound of the Lennon song?
Just curious, as I've only heard the U2 version.
Dale
scho...@uiuc.edu