Prayer Chain in Southern California!
DGMJ Watson
Just wanted to let interested parties know that the Prayer Chain will
be playing on FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 15th at ARCADIA PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH.
Opening will be a new group called Mary Said. Mary Said will have an
EP out by December of this year. I've heard them once before, and was
pretty impressed by their sound.
Any other questions, just e-mail me--t...@ix.netcom.com
Jonathan A. Watson
PS I'm not sure of the time yet--seven or seven-thirty. I'll post the
time when I find out...
Marvin Cantwell
>Just wanted to let interested parties know that the Prayer Chain will
>be playing on FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 15th at ARCADIA PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH.
so are these guys Christian musicians or what? I have Mercury and
while its pretty good, is it Christian? I mean its certainly not
straight ahead praise ala Petra or Peacock. What is some of their
other work?
ZapPa
Todd Gruener
Other work: Shawl, Hope, and I think one more but I don't know the
name. The Shawl album sounds alot differnt than Mercury. Shawls more
up-beat and funk/alternative. I liked Shawl better than mercury, but
mercury realy grew on me.
Todd, a guy from Dexter.
tgru...@efn.org
>ZapPa
Kip Haynes
>
>
> >Just wanted to let interested parties know that the Prayer Chain will
> >be playing on FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 15th at ARCADIA PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH.
>
> so are these guys Christian musicians or what? I have Mercury and
> while its pretty good, is it Christian? I mean its certainly not
> straight ahead praise ala Petra or Peacock. What is some of their
> other work?
>
>
:I first heard of Prayer Chain about 1 1/2 years ago. It was
:the whirlpool cd. Man, I fell in love with thier sound.
:Even now, I think that musically they are my favorite. I wondered
:if possibly they had some catholic roots from some of thier lyrics
:(holy water...prayer beads...) but I later learned that this was
:not so. Mecury is pretty good..a step in the mellow direction for
:them. The lyrics were even pretty good, especially Shimmer. As far
:as the members of the band having any conviction or deep faith...
:I've got my doubts, especially after seeing them in concert and
:talking with them. It's no secret that these guys have some stuff
:to deal with. After thier drummer started cussing when I asked
:him about the catholic thing, my heart broke. I really expected
:a bit more. Oh well...so goes life. Definatly go see the show, but
:don't be suprised when these guys stand up and preach all about
:Habitat for Humanity but never once mention a thing about the King
:of Kings...
:
: Kip
DGMJ Watson
>>
>>
>> >Just wanted to let interested parties know that the Prayer Chain
will
>> >be playing on FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 15th at ARCADIA PRESBYTERIAN
CHURCH.
Hi. My dad's the senior pastor at Arcadia Pres. and, unfortunately,
the Prayer Chain had to pull out. I'm not sure of the details, but
there's a chance that they may play at Arcadia Pres. sometime in
November. I'll keep everyone updated.
By the way, Marvin, how'd you find out about this. I don't think the
church did much or any publicity.
Markus Watson
reg/e
: > :if possibly they had some catholic roots from some of thier lyrics
: > :(holy water...prayer beads...) but I later learned that this was
: > :not so. Mecury is pretty good..a step in the mellow direction for
: > :them. The lyrics were even pretty good, especially Shimmer. As far
: > :as the members of the band having any conviction or deep faith...
: > :I've got my doubts, especially after seeing them in concert and
: > :talking with them. It's no secret that these guys have some stuff
: > :to deal with. After thier drummer started cussing when I asked
: > :him about the catholic thing, my heart broke. I really expected
: > :a bit more. Oh well...so goes life. Definatly go see the show, but
: > :don't be suprised when these guys stand up and preach all about
: > :Habitat for Humanity but never once mention a thing about the King
: > :of Kings...
: > :
: > : Kip
: this doesn't sound at all like what i've seen from the prayer
: chain. yes, they've mentioned habitat for humanity, but
: they've also talked about Christ when i've seen them. perhaps
: they felt more led to do so when i've seen them than when you
: saw them. i'd certainly rather have them talk about Christ
: when they feel led to, as opposed to forcing it each time they
: perform. and the first time i saw them i talked to tim taber
: (lead singer) after the show (this was on the buzz stop tour w/
: the 77s when the prayer chain was promoting "shawl") and i
: thanked tim for their music and told him that i really
: benefitted from their honesty and passion, that it was really
: edifying for me in my walk with Christ, and he thanked me and
: said that a lot of other people had said that, too, and that he
: was very happy about that, that God was working through their
: music. to this day, he's the most humble person i've ever
: met. so just remember that how we appear on one day does not
: necessarily reflect what we're really like. we all have bad
: days, we all do things that poorly represent Christ, but such
: is life, i'm afraid.
: jeff
--
i agree with jeff. i don't think however that we are in a position to judge
the sincerity of one's faith whether positively or negatively. i can assure
as a friend and fan of the prayer chain that they do love Jesus but they are
also artist, artists who are honest with the doubt and fear that creeps into
their lives. just because the music and lyrics don't sound like "praise"
doesn't meant that there is n't a resolution. their music talks about
moments epiphanal and painful. and i love it cuz it doesn't try to run from
any of the issues that frighten or shake our faith. plus they're a bunch of
jokesters too. so don't take some of their stuff too seriously. i guess my
warning is more to kip than to jeff. sorry if i didn't make that clear.
the fifth beatle,
reg
p.s. - it takes years to get here --prayer chain
Chuck Pearson
>I first heard of Prayer Chain about 1 1/2 years ago. It was
>the whirlpool cd. Man, I fell in love with thier sound.
>Even now, I think that musically they are my favorite. I wondered
>(holy water...prayer beads...) but I later learned that this was
>not so.
hum...is that from personal communication, or do you have an interview
reference? i got the same vibe from listening to "whirlpool".
>Mecury is pretty good..a step in the mellow direction for
>them. The lyrics were even pretty good, especially Shimmer.
hum. when i listened to it, it seemed a bit edgier to me...certainly
not speed grunge or anything like that, but more instrumental, more
interesting sounds...a bit "out there." i dunno if i could get into
listening to it on a regular basis. anyway, that's taste...
>As far as the members of the band having any conviction or deep faith...
>I've got my doubts, especially after seeing them in concert and
>talking with them. It's no secret that these guys have some stuff
>to deal with. After thier drummer started cussing when I asked
>him about the catholic thing, my heart broke. I really expected
>a bit more. Oh well...so goes life. Definatly go see the show, but
>don't be suprised when these guys stand up and preach all about
>Habitat for Humanity but never once mention a thing about the King
>of Kings...
careful, kip. you said yourself that "it's no secret that these guys
have some stuff to deal with." reading interviews with eric c., and
reading a posting here on r.m.c from andy prickett (through gene eugene's
green room account), it's quite obvious that there was a lot of pain and
rough stuff that went into the making of _mercury_, and they've said that
some of that comes out on the road when they do the songs. i don't think
it's fair to write off the convictions of the guys in the band just on
the basis of one show. if that was the case, i'd have written off
michael w. smith YEARS ago...
okay, okay, you alt.heads, i KNOW i should have written off mws YEARS
ago. so sue me. 8-)
chuck
>> : Kip
>>
>
>this doesn't sound at all like what i've seen from the prayer
>chain. yes, they've mentioned habitat for humanity, but
>they've also talked about Christ when i've seen them. perhaps
>they felt more led to do so when i've seen them than when you
>saw them. i'd certainly rather have them talk about Christ
>when they feel led to, as opposed to forcing it each time they
>perform. and the first time i saw them i talked to tim taber
>(lead singer) after the show (this was on the buzz stop tour w/
>the 77s when the prayer chain was promoting "shawl") and i
>thanked tim for their music and told him that i really
>benefitted from their honesty and passion, that it was really
>edifying for me in my walk with Christ, and he thanked me and
>said that a lot of other people had said that, too, and that he
>was very happy about that, that God was working through their
>music. to this day, he's the most humble person i've ever
>met. so just remember that how we appear on one day does not
>necessarily reflect what we're really like. we all have bad
>days, we all do things that poorly represent Christ, but such
>is life, i'm afraid.
---
"wide-eyed wonder girl, staring into the sky, wondering why it's a good,
great world, but it turns around, never mind the ground..." - the choir
(dope...@magnus.acs.ohio-state is chuck pearson, father of a little
wide-eyed wonder of his own, amelia catherine pearson.)
Chuck Pearson
>Chuck Pearson <dope...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>>okay, okay, you alt.heads,
>
>You didn't post this to alt.heads.
arrgh! you never told me you newgrouped it, bev!
now i'll go and ask ohio state news admin to carry it (along with
alt.fan.the-bob and alt.fan.wednesday...YES, DANG IT, THEY _DO_ EXIST!)
(best e-mail me where the control messages are, bev.)
chuck
Beverley
You didn't post this to alt.heads.
--
b E v e R l e y -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"It is impossible to experience one's own death objectively and still
carry a tune." -- Woody Allen -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
FlavorD
Prayer Chain. They came out of the Rose Hills Friends Church of Yorba
Linda, CA, AFAIK. Incidentally, that's the church John Wimber was saved
into, and pastored at for a while. I don't know where they go in total,
but Tim is often at the Tuesday night "8 O'Clock Service" for the young
adults at the Anaheim Vineyard, and last Sunday he was singing back-ups in
the worship band in the a.m. service.
As I understand it, My Brother's Mother, which has atleast Andy in it,
functions as a worship band at another Vineyard in the L.A. area.
Dave
William Constantine Tsimpris
: Kip Haynes writes:
: > :them. The lyrics were even pretty good, especially Shimmer.
Um, that's "Shiver."
: : :As far as the members of the band having any conviction or deep faith...
Whoa, whoa, whoa, don't start flippantly dissing my boys...
: > :I've got my doubts, especially after seeing them in concert and
: > :talking with them. It's no secret that these guys have some stuff
: > :to deal with. After thier drummer started cussing when I asked
: > :him about the catholic thing, my heart broke.
Some people have rough days, these guys have had a rough year. Eric
C. suffered a worse injury than a broken heart this year...
: : :I really expected it more. Oh well...so goes life. Definatly go see the
show, but don't be suprised when these guys stand up and preach all about
: > :Habitat for Humanity but never once mention a thing about the King
: > :of Kings...
: > :
: > : Kip
: >
Hey, now, that's not nice Kip. I've seen 'em preach plenty about the
King of Kings. Besides, Habitat for Humanity isn't exactly a Satanic
Pow-Pow or anything. It's a very worthy cause.
: this doesn't sound at all like what i've seen from the prayer chain...
: jeff
You said it, Jeff.
I mean, it really angers me when people see a person face-to-face for
maybe five minutes and then assert that he's lost in his walk, not a good
witness, not a good role model, yadda yadda yadda. I don't mean to get
personal with ol' Kip, but I'd like to see him on a bad day.
Isn't this how we got started on the infamous Peter King controversy.
Thucydides taught us that history repeats itself; let's prove him wrong.
"The contempt you feel is not worth your time." The Prayer Chain,
"Psychoflange"
*****************************************
BASIL T William (Basil) Tsimpris
RAP VERSION: "SPICY B" Check out my fly
new album, "Down Wit da Greek Boyz," at
your local Tower.
*****************************************
I should really get rid of this thing.
William Constantine Tsimpris
: > :the whirlpool cd. Man, I fell in love with thier sound.
: > :Even now, I think that musically they are my favorite. I wondered
: > :if possibly they had some catholic roots from some of thier lyrics
: > :(holy water...prayer beads...) but I later learned that this was
: > :them. The lyrics were even pretty good, especially Shimmer. As far
: > :as the members of the band having any conviction or deep faith...
: > :talking with them. It's no secret that these guys have some stuff
: > :to deal with. After thier drummer started cussing when I asked
: > :a bit more. Oh well...so goes life. Definatly go see the show, but
: > :don't be suprised when these guys stand up and preach all about
: > :Habitat for Humanity but never once mention a thing about the King
: > :of Kings...
: > :
: > : Kip
: >
: this doesn't sound at all like what i've seen from the prayer
: chain. yes, they've mentioned habitat for humanity, but
: they've also talked about Christ when i've seen them. perhaps
: they felt more led to do so when i've seen them than when you
: saw them. i'd certainly rather have them talk about Christ
: when they feel led to, as opposed to forcing it each time they
: perform. and the first time i saw them i talked to tim taber
: (lead singer) after the show (this was on the buzz stop tour w/
: the 77s when the prayer chain was promoting "shawl") and i
: thanked tim for their music and told him that i really
: benefitted from their honesty and passion, that it was really
: edifying for me in my walk with Christ, and he thanked me and
: said that a lot of other people had said that, too, and that he
: was very happy about that, that God was working through their
: music. to this day, he's the most humble person i've ever
: met. so just remember that how we appear on one day does not
: necessarily reflect what we're really like. we all have bad
: days, we all do things that poorly represent Christ, but such
: is life, i'm afraid.
: jeff
Agreed. I saw them May '94 in Richmond, best show I'll ever see. It
was a tough time for me, and their music really lifted me up and helped
turn me around. I just got their newsletter Wigwam thru the mail Sat.
Good stuff. "Like I Was" off SHAWL will always be my favorite song. I'm
a big fan, and from talking w/ them however briefly, they're a great
buncha guys.
BASIL T
--
CoolmoD'chocolateICECREAMfunkyPants
>
> MAD KITTY WITH CHAINSAW! wrote:
> : Kip Haynes writes:
> : > :them. The lyrics were even pretty good, especially Shiver.
>
> : : :As far as the members of the band having any conviction or deep faith...
> : > :I've got my doubts, especially after seeing them in concert and
> : > :talking with them. It's no secret that these guys have some stuff
> : > :to deal with. After thier drummer started cussing when I asked
> : > :him about the catholic thing, my heart broke.
>
> C. suffered a worse injury than a broken heart this year...
>
> show, but don't be suprised when these guys stand up and preach all about
> : > :Habitat for Humanity but never once mention a thing about the King
> : > :of Kings...
> : > :
> : > : Kip
> : >
>
> King of Kings. Besides, Habitat for Humanity isn't exactly a Satanic
> Pow-Pow or anything. It's a very worthy cause.
>
> : this doesn't sound at all like what i've seen from the prayer chain...
>
> : jeff
>
> You said it, Jeff.
> I mean, it really angers me when people see a person face-to-face for
> maybe five minutes and then assert that he's lost in his walk, not a good
> witness, not a good role model, yadda yadda yadda. I don't mean to get
> personal with ol' Kip, but I'd like to see him on a bad day.
> Isn't this how we got started on the infamous Peter King controversy.
> Thucydides taught us that history repeats itself; let's prove him wrong.
ok,ok Jeff and Billy, I knew that when I wrote this I would get some
stuff like this. I read some of the stuff posted about Prayer Chain
after my first article and I am really encouraged to hear some
positive things about these guys, (most people that have had experiences
with them that I've talked to feel the same way that I do, this
includes friends that have toured with them.) Let me set the record
straight,PRAYER CHAIN IS ONE OF THE BEST BANDS I'VE EVER HEARD!!!!!!
I guess because they are so good musically and lyrically that I
expected the same sort of debth from them personally. I know that
being on the road is hard and playing night after night is hard and
life in general is hard, and I'm sure that these guys have had some
tough breaks and all, but that's what life is like. If these guys
are Christians, (and believe me, I REALLY hope they are) I wish
they would get it together a little more. Here is a fact of life
that I know will draw many letters of harsh criticism... When you
get up on a stage, claim to be a Christian, and play music, you
are automatically looked at as a spiritual leader. It DOES NOT matter
if you claim to be a spiritual leader or not. Kids look up to you
and they see your actions (even if it is only for 5 minutes) and
they WILL emulate you. I saw it happen a dozen times at the concert,
"excuse me, but your song changed my life....." "yeah kid, whatever
the @#$##@..."
Will we be accountable for every word that comes about of our mouth?
Yeah... Am I saying that every band that wears the name "Christian"
should be candy-coted with evangelical lyrics and given a list of
naughty and nice things to say? Nope. What I'm saying is that I guess
I am a little tired of all these great bands with little or no
backbone. I am sure there are many people out there that agree. I
don't think that I really want to throw out all my cd's and go and
buy a bunch of panzi ccm stuff...but...Billy and Jeff.... wake up.
This is the real world. Stop living in candy land. I'm tired of
reading the same old stuff....defending so and so because they are
only human and how stupid and hypocrytical most Christians and
the Church are because of this and that. What's wrong with looking
at something for what it really is instead wearing blinders?
Do you agree?
CoolmoD'chocolateICECREAMfunkyPants
slam me personally, The correct address is u5...@wvnvm.wvnet.edu
Kip
Cheng
Watson) writes:
>I agree. I don't know the Prayer Chain personally, but I know a girl
>who has met him a few times (she used to date Elliot Chenault of
Dakoda
>Motor Co.) and said he came across as being rather stuck on himself.
>
Who are you talking about? The Prayer Chain consists of more then just
one person. So talking about "him" doesn't mean much.
Bobthony
DGMJ Watson
CoolmoD'chocolateICECREAMfunkyPants <u...@wvnvm.wvnet.edu> writes:
I agree. I don't know the Prayer Chain personally, but I know a girl
who has met him a few times (she used to date Elliot Chenault of Dakoda
Motor Co.) and said he came across as being rather stuck on himself.
I'm also concerned about a lot of the new alternative bands that are
made up of kids just out of high school. I know some guys that age who
just got a record deal, but I'm not sure I'd want them to be spiritual
leaders. I think one of the guys has a pretty good hold on what it
means to be a Christian, but I'm not totally sure about the other guys.
Sometimes I think the Southern California Alternative band scene is
just an easy way to get a record deal. They themselves told me that if
they get the opportunity to go secular they probably would, simply for
the sake of being able to make more money.
I would much rather trust an older musician than a young
"whipper-snapper" who hasn't even really experienced the "real world"
yet.
Markus Watson
runo
>In <19950923.151321...@WVNVM.WVNET.EDU>
>CoolmoD'chocolateICECREAMfunkyPants <u...@wvnvm.wvnet.edu> writes:
>>I saw it happen a dozen times at the concert,
>>"excuse me, but your song changed my life....." "yeah kid, whatever
>>the @#$##@..."
i do know members of said prayer chain and can verify this extremely
unbelievable behavior does not happen, on any basis i can imagine. these
people are only human beings, and so they will sin (and you too!). but
they realize you are a human being also, with feelings and experiences.
for anyone to respond so callously would require them not to. this is a
prime example of the fine art of hyperbole (read: lying, stretching the
truth).
i heard from some members of the throes about this issue. you people need
to get a grip on grace. so what about mike knott? or jyro? or ronnie
martin? or michael english? please read romans and don't think that you
are beyond sin. (scripture reference: god's kindness & repentance).
i am not angry. but this is kind of silly. we put these people on
pedestals, then throw rocks to knock them down. but we have to whitewash
our own tombs first. (you do the scripture reference).
i am also guilty. i like rumors. but i am as guilty as the rumored,
because in breaking one instance of the law, i breaking it all. (paul
wrote that idea, after god thought it first).
thanks to wayne and jeremy with the prayer chain for not making me feel
quite as "third wheelie" as i did.
love in christ, really.
russ
MAD KITTY WITH CHAINSAW!
> ok,ok Jeff and Billy, I knew that when I wrote this I would get some
> stuff like this. I read some of the stuff posted about Prayer Chain
> after my first article and I am really encouraged to hear some
> positive things about these guys, (most people that have had experiences
> with them that I've talked to feel the same way that I do, this
> includes friends that have toured with them.) Let me set the record
> straight,PRAYER CHAIN IS ONE OF THE BEST BANDS I'VE EVER HEARD!!!!!!
> I guess because they are so good musically and lyrically that I
> expected the same sort of debth from them personally. I know that
> being on the road is hard and playing night after night is hard and
> life in general is hard, and I'm sure that these guys have had some
> tough breaks and all, but that's what life is like. If these guys
> are Christians, (and believe me, I REALLY hope they are) I wish
> they would get it together a little more. Here is a fact of life
> that I know will draw many letters of harsh criticism... When you
> get up on a stage, claim to be a Christian, and play music, you
> are automatically looked at as a spiritual leader. It DOES NOT matter
> if you claim to be a spiritual leader or not. Kids look up to you
> and they see your actions (even if it is only for 5 minutes) and
> "excuse me, but your song changed my life....." "yeah kid, whatever
> the @#$##@..."
> Yeah... Am I saying that every band that wears the name "Christian"
> should be candy-coted with evangelical lyrics and given a list of
> naughty and nice things to say? Nope. What I'm saying is that I guess
> I am a little tired of all these great bands with little or no
> backbone. I am sure there are many people out there that agree. I
> don't think that I really want to throw out all my cd's and go and
> buy a bunch of panzi ccm stuff...but...Billy and Jeff.... wake up.
> This is the real world. Stop living in candy land. I'm tired of
> reading the same old stuff....defending so and so because they are
> only human and how stupid and hypocrytical most Christians and
> the Church are because of this and that. What's wrong with looking
> at something for what it really is instead wearing blinders?
> Do you agree?
>
so do i condemn someone for something that doesn't offend me
just because it might bother someone else? (the answer is, of
course, that it's not ok to condemn anyone at all for stuff
like that.) if you say that someone in a certain position
should act a certain way because others are looking up to them,
where do you draw the line as to what's ok for that person to
do and say and what isn't? i agree that there is a certain
amount of personal responsibility involved. for instance, i'm
much more mindful of my language if i think someone might be
offended by certain words. all i know is that whatever your
and your friends experiences with the prayer chain have been,
mine have been very good, ministering, worshipful ones. and i
will say again that to this day, tim taber is the most humble
person i've ever met. but that's only after 5 minutes of
talking to him. see, 5 minutes isn't really long enough to get
to know a person. i'm sure tim isn't always the way he was
when i talked to him. i'm sure that whoever you talked to in
the band isn't always the way they were when you talked to
him. we all fall victim to poor judgement from time to time.
i'm not trying to get you to excuse it, just to realize it and
understand it.
hope that clears things up some,
jeff
--
jeff parks | university of virginia | jv...@darwin.clas.virginia.edu | SALMON!
"take a walk down a highway, down my way.
take a walk when you feel miserable."
- starflyer 59
SunnyRoses
>just an easy way to get a record deal.
allow me to enlighten you: that's a bunch of crap. i've been in bands
hoping for a deal for several years now, the last couple of which have
been spent in the Southern California Alternative band scene. no deal.
and i am of the vain opinion that my bands do not suck.
i realise that i am reacting to but one line out of your post, but hey,
that
kinda got me ol' goat.
jeff elbel
Sunny Day Roses
Farewell to Juliet
DGMJ Watson
writes:
Hmmm. I suppose not every band makes it. My thought, however, comes
from my experience of, having just moved here, I already know people in
3 different bands that have deals. Actually, I've never met one of
these people (Elliot Chenault of Dakoda Motor Co.) but a lot of the
college kids in my church are good friends with him. The others are a
group called Mary Said, which just got a record deal--and they've only
been a band for about 8 months--and another group called Pushstart
Wagon which has a few songs on a CD called "Songs from the Underground"
and I think they may be getting a deal, too--but I'm not certain about
that. My point is, all the people I know who are in bands are making
it. This tends to give me the idea that it must not be too hard. I
suppose it also takes a lot of luck--being in the right place at the
right time (which is what one of the guys in Mary Said told me).
Anyway, that's why it seems so easy to me to get a record deal in So.
Cal.
Markus Watson
J. Streck
>Anyway, that's why it seems so easy to me to get a record deal in So.
>Cal.
Maybe it would be more accurate -- and more politic -- to say that it's
_easier_ to get a record deal in So. Cal. than in, say, Butte, Montana.
Seems to me it's largely a matter of being where the resources are (like
it's easier to become an Olympic downhill skier if you live in Colorado
than if you live in Florida).
john streck
jst...@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu
DGMJ Watson
(J. Streck) writes:
l.
>
>Maybe it would be more accurate -- and more politic -- to say that
it's
>_easier_ to get a record deal in So. Cal. than in, say, Butte,
Montana.
>Seems to me it's largely a matter of being where the resources are
(like
>it's easier to become an Olympic downhill skier if you live in
Colorado
>than if you live in Florida).
>
>john streck
>jst...@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu
I think that's true. I used to live in a small town in Pennsylvania
and there was a "semi" Christian band (that is, 3 of the 4 members were
Christian, but all their songs were Christian-oriented) in my high
school. They continued to try to make it when they graduated, but
after several years they had to give it up because it simply wasn't
happening. But I think that these guys were far more talented than the
the people that I know here in So. Cal. who are getting deals.
Markus Watson