Violent Femmes Christian?
David Collins
Dave C.
Scott Shauf
Gordon Gano (lead singer and principle music-writer) became a Christian
after their first two albums (both of which contain considerable profanity).
Their third and fourth albums (_The Blind Leading the Naked_ and
Violent Femmes 3_) both reflect a strong Christian influence (no profanity
on either), and the song "Faith", from TBLTN, is very straightforward--
"I believe in the Father, I believe in the Son, I believe there's a Spirit..."
I have not heard their fifth (and latest?) release, so I cannot comment on it.
I am also not familiar with the song mentioned in a previous post on the VFs,
but I assume it is from one of their first two albums.
As far as I know, Gordon Gano is a Christian, but the only member of the VFs
to be one.
Scott Shauf
Mr. Noise
Scott Shauf <sh...@cs.unc.edu> wrote:
>My impression of the Violent Femmes, regarding their Christianity, is that
>Gordon Gano (lead singer and principle music-writer) became a Christian
>after their first two albums (both of which contain considerable profanity).
>Their third and fourth albums (_The Blind Leading the Naked_ and
>Violent Femmes 3_) both reflect a strong Christian influence (no profanity
>on either), and the song "Faith", from TBLTN, is very straightforward--
Someone repost the Christianity Index, eh? <big grin>
This is a bad standard. By this standard, one would have to conclude that
Bruce Cockburn became a Christian sometime after World of Wonders, which would
be wildy inaccurate, as I understand. Without going on at length, allow me
to reference John Streck's reply on the drug question earlier & say 'Amen'.
Yes, someone's behavior *may* be an indicator of their faith, but it is only
a very rough one.
In fact, I'm given to understand that Gano was a Christian before that first
album. I seem tor recall an interview where he talks about playing some of
those osngs on the first album for his Pastor before it was recorded, for
example.
>"I believe in the Father, I believe in the Son, I believe there's a Spirit..."
People sing songs like this ALL THE TIME & don't mean a word of it (except,
of course, in some incredibly diluted/deluded 'New Age' way of thinking it's
'spiritual' or soemthing)!
In addition, I'm compelled to point out that one may sing something for a
point-of-view other than one's own to illustrate a point, or that you may
sing something from your own point of view as a means of expressing what you're
feeling, rather than advocating feeling that way or acting on those feelings.
Thus, I might write a song about how tempting adultery is & sing it, but not
advocate sleeping around. Or consider T-Bone Burnett's "I Can Fix (?)
Everythhing" (that sarcastic song fro _Criminal under My Own Hat_) or several
of Steve Taylor's songs (e.g., "I Want to Be a Clone", "I Manipulate", etc.)/
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UMASS-Amherst 8^>= "Shop as usual & avoid panic buying."
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Scott Shauf
>In article <2ghice...@bruckner.cs.unc.edu>,
>Scott Shauf <sh...@cs.unc.edu> wrote:
>>My impression of the Violent Femmes, regarding their Christianity, is that
>>Gordon Gano (lead singer and principle music-writer) became a Christian
>>after their first two albums (both of which contain considerable profanity).
>>Their third and fourth albums (_The Blind Leading the Naked_ and
>>Violent Femmes 3_) both reflect a strong Christian influence (no profanity
>>on either), and the song "Faith", from TBLTN, is very straightforward--
>
>Bruce Cockburn became a Christian sometime after World of Wonders, which would
>be wildy inaccurate, as I understand. Without going on at length, allow me
>to reference John Streck's reply on the drug question earlier & say 'Amen'.
>Yes, someone's behavior *may* be an indicator of their faith, but it is only
>a very rough one.
>
>In fact, I'm given to understand that Gano was a Christian before that first
>album. I seem tor recall an interview where he talks about playing some of
>those osngs on the first album for his Pastor before it was recorded, for
>example.
>
I was not intending to set a standard as to how to judge whether or not
someone is a Christian, though I can see how it might have appeared that way.
I was a) stating my impression of Gordon Gano's Christianity and b) discussing
the Christian influence on the VF's albums, which would seem to be of
interest to readers of r.m.c. Perhaps I am mistaken on the first part. I do
seem to recall an article in some Christian magazine 7 or 8 years ago that said
something like this, but perhaps I misremember. However, I don't think there
is any question as to the Christian influence on the albums. If Gordon Gano
was a Christian on the first album, you would never be able to tell it; but
from listening to the third or fourth one, you might get the idea.
>>"I believe in the Father, I believe in the Son, I believe there's a Spirit..."
>People sing songs like this ALL THE TIME & don't mean a word of it (except,
>of course, in some incredibly diluted/deluded 'New Age' way of thinking it's
>'spiritual' or soemthing)!
>
>In addition, I'm compelled to point out that one may sing something for a
>point-of-view other than one's own to illustrate a point, or that you may
>sing something from your own point of view as a means of expressing what you're
>feeling, rather than advocating feeling that way or acting on those feelings.
>Thus, I might write a song about how tempting adultery is & sing it, but not
>advocate sleeping around. Or consider T-Bone Burnett's "I Can Fix (?)
>Everythhing" (that sarcastic song fro _Criminal under My Own Hat_) or several
>of Steve Taylor's songs (e.g., "I Want to Be a Clone", "I Manipulate", etc.)/
Both points are well taken. However, in regard to the first one, this is
usually done with covers, not with original songs (I believe "Faith" is
original, but I do not have the album in front of me, so I am not certain).
Everyone has probably sung "Amazing Grace" before without meaning it, but it
is unlikely that someone would pen such a song without meaning it (unless
someone was payed specifically to do so).
Unless, also, the second case above is in question. However, there are
generally indicators to let the audience know that this is the case. For
example, in Steve Taylor's song "I Blew Up the Clinic Real Good", it seems
clear that he is not speaking of himself. Or in Randy Travis' "The Reasons
I Cheat", it again seems unlikely that Randy Travis is speaking as himself.
I see no indicator in "Faith" that anyone other than the singer is speaking.
The song starts out "I got my faith, baby, in the Lord" and continues in
this straightforward way throughout. Then there are the other songs on this
album which, if not explicitly Christian, show a Christian viewpoint-- "We
Don't Want No Killing, Lord", "World Without Mercy" (which is only on the
tape, for some reason), and "I Held Her in My Arms", among others. Showing,
a Christian viewpoint is possible to do without being a Christian, though, I
admit.
I do have a tough time believing that a Christian (other than one who has,
at least for the moment, backslided) would write some of the lyrics contained
on the VFs first two albums, regardless of the motive. (And now I'll be
explicit, skip this if you don't want to read it.) If Gano didn't mean the
line "Why can't I get just one fuck?" to be taken at face value, then he
showed remarkably poor judgement, because I have been at several parties
where this song is played and the whole crowd screams it out at the top of
their lungs (and they seem to mean it).
Perhaps their is someone out their who knows authoritatively the facts about
Gano and can clear all this up for us.
Scott Shauf
Miles O'Neal
| This is a bad standard. By this standard, one would have to conclude that
| Bruce Cockburn became a Christian sometime after World of Wonders, which would
| be wildy inaccurate, as I understand.
I recall being naive enough to be shocked by
"Rocket Launcher".
And yet...
And yet it put into words exactly my feelings.
-Miles
andrew.j.whitman
Yep. Cockburn has noted in interviews that he really struggled with
the lyrics to "Rocket Launcher". He finally decided to go with the
"obscenity" in the last line because he felt that it was the only
term that adequately expressed the disgust and rage that he felt.
I'm not a fan of shocking, vulgar language, but that's one instance
where its use seems entirely effective and appropriate.
>-Miles
Andy Whitman
AT&T Network Systems
Columbus, Ohio
a...@cblph.att.com
Mr. Noise
Scott Shauf <sh...@cs.unc.edu> wrote:
>something like this, but perhaps I misremember. However, I don't think there
>is any question as to the Christian influence on the albums. If Gordon Gano
>was a Christian on the first album, you would never be able to tell it; but
>from listening to the third or fourth one, you might get the idea.
What about "Jesus Walking on the Water", from _Hallowed Ground_? (The second
Femmes album.) Look, I'm not going to disagree that there is nothing explicity
Christian about the Femmes' first album, but there's nothing explicitly
Christian about the Brandenburg Concertos, either. The way Gano deals with
teenage angst on that album may be immature, & not particularly edifying, but
I just don't think you'll get consistently accurate results trying to figure
out someone's faith from a handful of songs. If anything, I think the change
in Gano's lyrics have more to do with growing up a bit than anything else. But
I would defend even something like "Kiss Off" or whatever from that first album
as a song that a Christian might reasonably want to write & perform. Why? The
songs give insight into a teenage guy's confused feelings. They don't
*advocate* behaving a particular way. You would, I should think, want to
explain a bit about what's going on in the song & why you wrote it, but that
hardly means it's a topic unfit for Christian art!
>>>"I believe in the Father, I believe in the Son, I believe there's a Spirit..."
>>People sing songs like this ALL THE TIME & don't mean a word of it (except,
>>of course, in some incredibly diluted/deluded 'New Age' way of thinking it's
>>'spiritual' or soemthing)!
>Both points are well taken. However, in regard to the first one, this is
>usually done with covers, not with original songs (I believe "Faith" is
>original, but I do not have the album in front of me, so I am not certain).
>Everyone has probably sung "Amazing Grace" before without meaning it, but it
>is unlikely that someone would pen such a song without meaning it (unless
>someone was payed specifically to do so).
That observation just doesn't hold up to scrutiny. What about Norman
Greenbaum's "Spirit in the Sky"? How about Eric Clapton's "In The Presence
of the Lord"? (Or does he mean Krishna or something?) How about Webber &
Rice's _Joseph & the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat_? I'd guess that a large
fraction of pop artists have written a song with a reference to 'God' at some
point, without meaning what Christians mean by the word!
>I do have a tough time believing that a Christian (other than one who has,
>at least for the moment, backslided) would write some of the lyrics contained
>on the VFs first two albums, regardless of the motive. (And now I'll be
>explicit, skip this if you don't want to read it.) If Gano didn't mean the
>line "Why can't I get just one fuck?" to be taken at face value, then he
>showed remarkably poor judgement, because I have been at several parties
>where this song is played and the whole crowd screams it out at the top of
>their lungs (and they seem to mean it).
Since when does poor judgment disqualify one as a Christian! ;-)
>Perhaps their is someone out their who knows authoritatively the facts about
>Gano and can clear all this up for us.
Doubt it. This isn't the first time we've gone 'round on this topic here in
r.m.c.... ;-)
Rod Gallagher
Sorry to jump in, but .....
The violent Femmes actually put out a gospel album a while back under
the name Mercy Seat. They brought in a different lead singer, a
classically trained gospel singer whose name escapes me, but the rest
is basically the same.
If anyone has access to this album (Mercy Seat - "Mercy Seat") I would
love to get a copy of it. My tape was stolen some time ago and it was
one of my favorites.
Just goes to show that there are some groups out there that are trying
to do both Christian and Secular. I don't pretend to know what the
state of the Femmes spiritual life is, but the Christian album they put
out was very mature and musically excellent.
rod.
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Mr. Noise
Rod Gallagher <r...@indirect.com> wrote:
>The violent Femmes actually put out a gospel album a while back under
>the name Mercy Seat. They brought in a different lead singer, a
>classically trained gospel singer whose name escapes me, but the rest
>is basically the same.
That's not how I understand it... Gardon Gano, lead singer for the Femmes,
*is* part of Mercy Seat, but I understood them to be an entirely different
band. In fact, I thought Gano was the only Femmes member in the band.
Anyone actually have a Mercy Seat album so they can check?
Robert Davis
>the name Mercy Seat. They brought in a different lead singer, a
>classically trained gospel singer whose name escapes me, but the rest
>is basically the same.
>
No, actually, the only Femme to appear on the Mercy Seat album
is Gordon Gano, and he says that it wasn't really his album -- he just
provided the guitars et. al.
Rob
--
| Robert Davis da...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu
| "Look up, Hannah." NeXT Mail accepted
--
Rod Gallagher
>*is* part of Mercy Seat, but I understood them to be an entirely different
>band. In fact, I thought Gano was the only Femmes member in the band.
>
>Anyone actually have a Mercy Seat album so they can check?
Well, I have an old Newspaper article lying around here somewhere that
shows at least two of the three members of VF in Mercy Seat. I can't
remember exactly which ones (the article is buried several moves down),
but I know one was the lead singer (doing backup and instruments?). I
would imagine the other was the drummer (?).
Hope somebody has a Mercy Seat album to check. BTW, If anyone has
one for sale, I would love to be exploited for that album. It was one
of my favorites.
rod.