Christian Music in Odd Times
Brian Lewis
signatures? I know that Crooked Smile has a song in 5/4 on their new
album. I seem to recall that Phil Keaggy used to write some songs in
odd times. Iona has also some odd time passages (no puns here please).
Keaggy and Iona seem to be some of the few Christian artists who write
good music and don't try to copy secular acts.
I like Dream Theater, Rush and Yes for their melodic odd time riffs.
While I don't like copy bands, I would like to see more of that
creativity in Christian music.
Thanks,
Brian
Jeff Holland
> signatures? I know that Crooked Smile has a song in 5/4 on their new
> album. I seem to recall that Phil Keaggy used to write some songs in
> odd times. Iona has also some odd time passages (no puns here please).
> Keaggy and Iona seem to be some of the few Christian artists who write
> good music and don't try to copy secular acts.
>
Good luck! Churches are finally starting to come around tothe idea of
4/4 rock beats!
Sixpence None the Richer does some odd rhythms. (Question for
musicians: Is "Disconnect" from _This Beautiful Mess_ in 6/4 or
triplets?? I'm a music newbie, throw me a bone here!)
> I like Dream Theater, Rush and Yes for their melodic odd time riffs.
> While I don't like copy bands, I would like to see more of that
> creativity in Christian music.
Woohoo! Another Yes fan! You might try some of the older
work by Kansas and the solo albums by one of their song writers,
Kerry Livgren, who is a professing Christian.
Jeff
NP: Petra Praise: The Rock Cries Out
--
Jeff Holland - IBM Education & Training
Lotus Notes Application Development
jeff...@us.ibm.com
Willem Jonker
> I like Dream Theater, Rush and Yes for their melodic odd time riffs.
> While I don't like copy bands, I would like to see more of that
> creativity in Christian music.
Perhaps you should check out Saviour Machine.
For me the revelation in progressive rock music during the 90's.
Willem Jonker
dt
suggest Iona to you, if you are a Yes fan but want something totally
original.
Band Albums Sounds Like Lyrical content
Rating Comments
Ajalon Light at the End of the Tunnel Yes/Genesis/Alan Parsons Very
Christian *** Nice prog interludes, some pop songs, lyrics uplifting but
a little cliched. Consider it neo-prog, next album should be better.
Animator Gallery Yes/Rush
Sublte yet strong Christian message ***1/2 Great lyrics, nice keyboard
solos,
very Yes like. Highly recommended if you can find it. E-mail Tim Brooks
<tbr...@personalcarehmo.com> for a copy. He's the lead singer.
Arkangel Warrior Jethro Tull/Genesis Worshipful/powerful lyrics
**** The original Christian prog album from early 80's, available
through rad-rockers.
The Awakening Sancified, Into Thy Hands Yes/Rush Very Christian,
uplifting (sometimes preachy) ***1/2 Very Yes-like vocals, great
music. Now known as 100 days, no longer prog. They cover Yes' Onward on ITH.
Terl Bryant Psalms, Iona/Camel/RTF Worshipfull lyrics ****
Psalms is more prog/less jazz, great album. Iona vocalist guests on Psalms.
Robin Crow Electric Cinema Instrumental symphonic prog ***
Nice guitar work, Kerry Livgren of Kansas plays keys, two covers of prog
classics
Echolyn As the World, Suffocating the Bloom (+2 more) Gentle
Giant/early Genesis Professing Christians, no blatant lyrics ****
Excellent prog, thoughtful lyrics, C.S. Lewis influence (Wormwood)
Finneas Gauge Allan Holdsworth/jazz fusion Subtle Christian
influence at best *** Somewhat dissonant musically, female vocals,
jazzy feel for former echolyn keyboardist's band.
Fourth Estate Finesse and Fury, See What I See Satriani/Jeff
Beck/Dregs **** Great guitar-laden instrumental prog rock
Glass Hammer Journey of the Dunedan, Perelandra, On to Evermore
ELP/Kansas/Pink Floyd Fantasy/allegorical lyrics, one or two subtle
Christian songs *** Definately Keith Emerson/Wakeman influenced prog,
with zooming key solos throughout. A few weak songs here and there, but
generally good.
Iona (various) Yes/Rennaisance/Camel Excellent female lead with
worshipful, deep lyrics **** Beautiful, symphonic/Celtic prog with
guest appearances by King Crimson's Robert Fripp, early albums and live
album are most prog. These guys are Rick Wakeman's favorite band
Jeff Johnson (various) Camel/Nightnoise Vocal albums have
great, deep lyrics, mostly based on writings of famous poets, writers
**** All his albums are great, some instrumental, some vocal, mostly
keyboard/spacey/electronic sounding with lots going on musically. Start with
Songs from Albion Trilogy, Pigrimage, Icons or The Awakening.
King's X (various albums) Beatles/Rush/Yes/Sly and the Family
Stone/Metallica Great lyrics, mostly subtle **** Only somewhat
prog on first three albums, but incredible musicianship, vocal harmonies and
strong songwriting. Try Gretchen Goes To Nebraska to start.
Kerry Livgren / AD (various) Kansas Excellent insightful lyrics
**** Former Kansas songwriter/guitarist/keyboardist, numerous albums,
not as prog as old Kansas, but good nonetheless. Has two instrumental albums
also.
Mastedon Laufcaudio Kansas Great, powerul Christian lyrics
***1/2 Rockin, fairly prog album with former Kansas vox John
Elephante. Their first album is more hard rock. Hard to find, but good.
Mike Oldfield Islands, Earth Moving, etc Himself He's now a
Catholic, some songs definately about God, redemption *** Prog
veteran has some interesting lyrics on last 4 or 5 albums.
Salem Hill Catatonia, Roberry of Murder Marillion/Kansas/King's X/Pink
Floyd Subtle but profound **** I love these guys, Catatonia is
great, great message, vocal harmonies, proggy solos, diverse songs. ROM has
David Ragsdale of Kansas on it, great concept album, very Floydian. Light
profanity on one song. Main songwriter is a strong Christian.
Jeff Holland wrote in message <35F54D39...@NOSPAM.us.ibm.com>...
>> Does anyone know of artists who do compose/have composed in odd time
>> signatures? I know that Crooked Smile has a song in 5/4 on their new
>> album. I seem to recall that Phil Keaggy used to write some songs in
>> odd times. Iona has also some odd time passages (no puns here please).
>> Keaggy and Iona seem to be some of the few Christian artists who write
>> good music and don't try to copy secular acts.
>>
>
> Good luck! Churches are finally starting to come around tothe idea of
>4/4 rock beats!
>
> Sixpence None the Richer does some odd rhythms. (Question for
>musicians: Is "Disconnect" from _This Beautiful Mess_ in 6/4 or
>triplets?? I'm a music newbie, throw me a bone here!)
>
>
>> I like Dream Theater, Rush and Yes for their melodic odd time riffs.
>> While I don't like copy bands, I would like to see more of that
>> creativity in Christian music.
>
nicholas.k...@pepsico.com
Brian Lewis <br...@connect.net> wrote:
> Does anyone know of artists who do compose/have composed in odd time
> signatures? I know that Crooked Smile has a song in 5/4 on their new
> album. I seem to recall that Phil Keaggy used to write some songs in
> odd times. Iona has also some odd time passages (no puns here please).
> Keaggy and Iona seem to be some of the few Christian artists who write
> good music and don't try to copy secular acts.
Michael W. Smith wrote the verses "Could He Be the Messiah" in 5/4.
He also co-wrote with Amy Grant the verses of "Love Has Come" and "Christmas
Hymn" from the first Christmas album in aforementioned 5/4.
Don't shoot the messenger.
Nick.
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Josh Prins
> Sixpence None the Richer does some odd rhythms. (Question for
>musicians: Is "Disconnect" from _This Beautiful Mess_ in 6/4 or
>triplets?? I'm a music newbie, throw me a bone here!)
>
>
that common in rock songs. However, you can't forget Puedo Escribir, which has
verses in 11/8.
Also, most (if not all) of Burlap to Cashmere's "Divorce" from "Live at the
Bitter End" (a must-buy) is in 5/8. If you want Christian music that doesn't
sound cliche, give these guys a listen.
Chuck Pearson
: Does anyone know of artists who do compose/have composed in odd time
: signatures?
check out model engine, nee' black-eyed sceva, for some yes-style time
signature changes and beat flips, sans the pretentiousness.
the black-eyed sceva song "cleverness" starts out in 11/8 time, and
bounces around between that and 4/4.
they have done several songs of that ilk in the past, fewer these days,
but they have a unique way of building a song regardless of the time
signature.
chuck
--
follow your dreams. you can reach your goals. [thanx to eric cartman.]
i'm living proof. beefcake. BEEFCAKE! <cpea...@freenet.columbus.oh.us>
Norman Leach
>
>Nick.
can we just wing 'em?
norm (whose life is beginning to look more and more like a Dilbert strip)
Frederick A. Lajoie
>
> Does anyone know of artists who do compose/have composed in odd time
> album. I seem to recall that Phil Keaggy used to write some songs in
??? Can someone enlighten my lack of musical knowledge? I know what i
like, but i sure as heck can't 'explain' what i like. :-) What is 5/4?
Or maybe someone can recommend a good web site? Thanks,
Fred
--
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remove JUNK at the end of my email address to REPLY!
My only X lives in Tex.
http://fox.nstn.ca/~fred_l/index.htm
Josh Spencer
>
> Does anyone know of artists who do compose/have composed in odd time
> signatures?
Five O'Clock People does a lot of 3/4 time, at least according to their
website. Haven't heard the album yet.
josh
Josh Spencer
>
> Does anyone know of artists who do compose/have composed in odd time
> signatures?
I'm sure Tourniquet probably does on their _Psycho Surgery_ and
_Pathogenic Ocular Dissonance_ albums, too. And Believer on _Sanity
Obscure_ and _Dimensions_. But don't quote me on that.
josh
Matt Laswell
: Brian Lewis wrote:
:>
:> Does anyone know of artists who do compose/have composed in odd time
:> signatures?
: Five O'Clock People does a lot of 3/4 time, at least according to their
: website. Haven't heard the album yet.
This is true. The album is excellent, BTW, even their lead singer
appears to be trying awfully hard to sound like Jars of Clay at
times. Still, unlike Jars they manage to be occasionally joyful
and avoid self-conscious moroseness. I like that.
--
matt laswell -- laswell at jump dot net
"Imperfection is a prerequisite for grace."
- Ted Beasley
Jerry B. Ray
>Five O'Clock People does a lot of 3/4 time, at least according to their
>website. Haven't heard the album yet.
"3/4-the time signature of love." Chris Bland
JRjr
--
%%%%% vap...@prism.gatech.edu %%%%%%%% Jerry B. Ray, Jr. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
"Have I lost it if I hope for something more than feeling fatalistic pain?
And if true love never did exist how could we know its name?"
Sam Phillips -- "Love Is Not Lost"
Dennis Howe
5/4.Easter song by Second Chapter had one 5/4 measure, and Seawind I believe
wrote in off meters. Also I'm not sure, but it often sound like Iona and some
of the Alt. type groups use meter as a mere happenstance.
Dennis
David Murray
>: Does anyone know of artists who do compose/have composed in odd time
>: signatures?
The verses of Amy Grant's "Love Has Come" from her first Christmas album are
in 14/8 or something like that. (4 divisions of 3 and one quicker division
of 2 per measure, IIRC.) The chorus reverts to 4/4.
David Murray /db-m...@rfci.net
to reply remove the dash from the email address
http://www.rfci.net/dbmurray
Making hay while the sun shines.
Tim Helmen
>
>Does anyone know of artists who do compose/have composed in odd time
>signatures?
Iona does quite a bit of this. Bi-Se Mo Shuil-part 2 is a very cool
example. It starts with a grooving 3/4, then they kick into a blinding
uptempo odd-time jam with tight violin/flute unisons and finally a typically
great Dave Bainbridge guitar solo over the whole thing, with with Terl
Bryant palying great drums throughout.
That's just one example from Iona. From your other interests, I would say
definintely check out Iona if you haven't yet.
Blessings,
Tim
clive
>
> Brian Lewis wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone know of artists who do compose/have composed in odd time
> > signatures?
>
> _Pathogenic Ocular Dissonance_ albums, too.
yep, there's lots of odd-time signatures on "psycho surgery".
> And Believer on _Sanity Obscure_ and _Dimensions_. But don't
> quote me on that.
actually the drummer used a technique called 'daubing' (his name
was joey daub) which used a slightly altered 4/4-time from
what i recall. it sounded complicated. also on dimensions,
the song "what is but cannot not be" uses schoenberg twelve-tone
theory, in a 12/8 time i think.
> josh
clive
Chuck Pearson
: "3/4-the time signature of love." Chris Bland
YM "6/8". HTH.
David Murray
Josh Spencer <ca...@maui.net> wrote in message 35F5A312...@maui.net...
>Brian Lewis wrote:
>>
>> Does anyone know of artists who do compose/have composed in odd time
>> signatures?
>
>website. Haven't heard the album yet.
3/4 time is very common, although like 4/4 it can be given unusual pulses.
Phil Robinson
> norm (whose life is beginning to look more and more like a
> Dilbert strip)
you, too?!? mine's been that way for a lllooonnnggg time. :)
- phil
___________________________________________________________________
planned maintenance program phil robinson
2170 business center dr., ste. 17 ph...@followup.com
memphis, tn 38134-5626
800.348.3063 | fax: 800.348.3065
http://www.followup.com/
David Murray
clive <cl...@ginger.am.qub.ac.uk> wrote in message
35F65A...@ginger.am.qub.ac.uk...
>actually the drummer used a technique called 'daubing' (his name
>was joey daub) which used a slightly altered 4/4-time from
>what i recall. it sounded complicated. also on dimensions,
>the song "what is but cannot not be" uses schoenberg twelve-tone
>theory, in a 12/8 time i think.
12/8 can be broken up in ways other than 4 sets of 3, in which case it might
be "odd." However, much gospel music written in 4/4 is actually performed in
12/8 (4 beats of 3 eighths each). It's a time signature we often hear, even
if we don't often see it. Another common time is 9/8 (3 beats of 3 eighths
each). "Blessed Assurance" is one example.
Technically, a time signature isn't "odd" unless there is an uneven
subdivision of the beat. If the "numerator" of the time signature is 1, 2,
4, 3, 6, 9, or 12, the meter is usually "even."
Matt Laswell
: norm -
:> norm (whose life is beginning to look more and more like a
:> Dilbert strip)
: you, too?!? mine's been that way for a lllooonnnggg time. :)
: - phil
So you're the prince of insufficient light then?
mara...@badger1.net
> Does anyone know of artists who do compose/have composed in odd time
> signatures? I know that Crooked Smile has a song in 5/4 on their new
> album. I seem to recall that Phil Keaggy used to write some songs in
with my weakness for prog, i'm surprised at myself that more odd-time
didn't make the Farewell to Juliet or Sunny Day Roses albums. we didn't
do entire songs outside of four, but all three albums have a break or two
where we've run into five, six, or seven.
yes, on purpose. :-) and not when we want to force something, and say,
"whee! we're tricky!" it's been when it would really push a song some-
where interesting.
anyone who has listened to Dave Brubeck Quartet can tell you that five
can really swing, though! the guitar break on Jerry Ray's oft-quoted
"Time Stand Still" by Rush is in five, and that swirls around beautifully.
Oingo Boingo (definitely not CCM) used to play in six pretty frequently.
i find that seven feels quite natural. i think there's a song on
Blackball's "superheavydreamscape" that's in seven. Dan Temmesfield
can tell you which one.
i don't find cut, five, six or seven to be anything all that wacky.
listen to some of the stuff that Bill Bruford does with time. the last
time i saw King Crimson play, he and Tony Levin did a chapman stick/
percussion duet that absolutely spun my head around. there was no
way to count it on the first listen. i wish i had a recording of it.
grace,
jeff
--
Farewell to Juliet/Marathon Records
PO Box 1222
El Segundo, CA USA 90245-6222
mara...@badger1.net
> This is true. The album is excellent, BTW, even their lead singer
> appears to be trying awfully hard to sound like Jars of Clay at
> times. Still, unlike Jars they manage to be occasionally joyful
> and avoid self-conscious moroseness. I like that.
i give 5 O'Clock People a big recommendation. though they work a
lot from the acoustic context, i find that they have a pretty solid
image of their own outside of the JoC comparisons. these guys are
going somewhere.
Phil Robinson
> Phil Robinson <ph...@followup.com> wrote:
> : norm -
>
> :> norm (whose life is beginning to look more and more like a
> :> Dilbert strip)
>
> : you, too?!? mine's been that way for a lllooonnnggg time. :)
>
> : - phil
>
> So you're the prince of insufficient light then?
umm ... no. :)
but i swear that my boss' hair gets pointier every day. and the
funny thing is, he loves dilbert and laughs at all the insane
things that go on in the strip. then he goes and does most of
them. talk about life imitating ... er ... art.
- phil
(maybe the dilbert doll hanging in effigy in my boss' office
should have been my first clue.)
___________________________________________________________________
phil robinson
ph...@followup.com
Dennis Howe
missed?
He always seemed to disdain tradition as unnecessary and a constraint to his
concepts of expression free from conventionality.
Dennis
clive wrote:
> Josh Spencer wrote:
> >
> > Brian Lewis wrote:
> > >
> > > Does anyone know of artists who do compose/have composed in odd time
> > > signatures?
> >
> > I'm sure Tourniquet probably does on their _Psycho Surgery_ and
> > _Pathogenic Ocular Dissonance_ albums, too.
>
> yep, there's lots of odd-time signatures on "psycho surgery".
>
> > And Believer on _Sanity Obscure_ and _Dimensions_. But don't
> > quote me on that.
>
> actually the drummer used a technique called 'daubing' (his name
> was joey daub) which used a slightly altered 4/4-time from
> what i recall. it sounded complicated. also on dimensions,
> the song "what is but cannot not be" uses schoenberg twelve-tone
> theory, in a 12/8 time i think.
>
> > josh
>
> clive
Other Doug
>> actually the drummer used a technique called 'daubing' (his name
>> was joey daub) which used a slightly altered 4/4-time from
>> what i recall. it sounded complicated. also on dimensions,
>> the song "what is but cannot not be" uses schoenberg twelve-tone
>> theory, in a 12/8 time i think.
Then Dennis Howe <oldh...@freewwweb.com> responded:
>I've not noticed Schoenberg writing in time signatures, is this something I
>missed?
>He always seemed to disdain tradition as unnecessary and a constraint to his
>concepts of expression free from conventionality.
If you reread clive's post again you will see that he states that
"what is but cannot be" uses Schoenberg's twelve-tone theory, and
that the song "what is but cannot be" is in 12/8 (clive thinks),
but makes no mention of any of Schoenberg's works being in 12/8.
As for Schoenberg not using time signatures, all the (admittedly
few) works I have manuscript for do have time-signatures. And if
I understand his writings correctly, he would probably state that
traditions are there because they make acceptable sounds, and
make them consistently, and that you must understand the rules
before you can supplant them for the purpose of higher musical
expression (you shouldn't go outside of the system unless the
expression you seek does not reside within the system).
Douglas A. Telfer
othe...@aol.com
David Murray
<mara...@badger1.net> wrote in message 6t6pvd$b6n$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com...
>anyone who has listened to Dave Brubeck Quartet can tell you that five
>can really swing, though!
Dave Brubeck is the master of making odd meters flow.
There's this really cool 9/8 thing he does breaking it into 3 pulses of 2
plus 1 pulse of three. "Blue Rondo a la Turk."