Amy Grant cannot be taken seriously by true Christians
summerfallwinter
a heartfelt opinion.
I'll boil this argument down to its essence:
- Amy makes big money off of the Christian audience with songs
proclaiming
things about faith, eternal love, how we can all work through our
problems.
Role model to many people. (Good)
- Amy 'crosses over' to the mainstream, uses a little sex appeal on the
albums (no problem), retains her messages of how we can work through
all
problems with love and patience etc. It's like, the central theme of
her
music.
- Amy cheats on her husband
- Amy divorces her husband
- Amy rationalizes it, and continues to proclaim to be a "Christian"
artist,
and sing these songs about reconciliation, eternal love etc.
(BAD!!!!!!)
I thought about peoples arguments about judging others etc, and agree
that
many people are too judgmental. But there's some key things that
cannot be
justified here. You see, it's not just that she made a mistake and
everyone
is human and let's all just forgive and move on. Because not only did
she
make an entire living singing songs about EXACTLY WHAT SHE SAID NOT TO
DO,
she tries to RATIONALIZE her MASSIVE HYPOCRISY, and refuses to
reconcile
with her first (real) husband! (And now with kids by another father
that's
impossible) but the point is. When you make millions of dollars
singing
songs about how everyone can work out their problems, and then you
cheat on
your husband and leave him, you are betraying and nullifying every
breath of
word you ever sang about reconciliation and love.
So you cheated on your husband Amy. That's OK, everyone is human.
But according to every word you sang to us for 20 years, you had the
responsibility to make it right, with your husband you claimed to join
with
in front of God, and by all accounts he was willing to take you back
and
make it right. I can forgive anyone for cheating, and for being human.
But
when they continue to make conscious life choices that are 100%
hypocritical, while making money off of people they are betraying,
that's
about the sickest thing I can imagine.
(Except for the people that continue to defend her...)
SRobi...@aol.com
SRobi...@aol.com
you too, seeing that "we all have sinned and fall short of the glory of
God." Just be thankful and take care of your own life and be glad in
the blessings and forgiveness none of us deserves but all of us in
Christ have the privilege of.
Grow up.
If you don't want to listen to her -- then don't. It's just that
simple.
Pastor Steve Winter
wrote:
>- Amy cheats on her husband
>- Amy divorces her husband
>- Amy rationalizes it, and continues to proclaim to be a "Christian"
>artist,
>and sing these songs about reconciliation, eternal love etc.
>(BAD!!!!!!)
She was trinity scum before, she is trinity scum now,
why would you expect her to be a real "christian" worshipping
a RCC man made god squad?
Pastor Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
http://tinyurl.com/mxu7o for trinity is antichrist sermon
Bill Kawalec
--
I never read email at the Yahoo address!
"summerfallwinter" <summerfa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1157066391.9...@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
>I was as much an Amy Grant fan as anyone, and have every right to state
> a heartfelt opinion.
sure, go ahead, be a jackass!
--
I never read email at the Yahoo address!
> I'll boil this argument down to its essence:
>
> - Amy makes big money off of the Christian audience with songs
> proclaiming
> things about faith, eternal love, how we can all work through our
> problems.
> Role model to many people. (Good)
> - Amy 'crosses over' to the mainstream, uses a little sex appeal on the
>
> albums (no problem), retains her messages of how we can work through
> all
> problems with love and patience etc. It's like, the central theme of
> her
> music.
> - Amy cheats on her husband
what a LOVELY "Christian" thing for you to say!!!!!!!!!!!! you got PROOF,
skippy?????
--
I never read email at the Yahoo address!
Bill Kawalec
--
I never read email at the Yahoo address!
"Pastor Steve Winter" <steve-.NO--SPAM@-prime.org> wrote in message
news:jo6ff2lqklo0e4496...@4ax.com...
Bill Kawalec
heretic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--
I never read email at the Yahoo address!
"Pastor Steve Winter" <steve-.NO--SPAM@-prime.org> wrote in message
news:jo6ff2lqklo0e4496...@4ax.com...
Nic C.
No legit "pastor" would even say "trinity scum".
End of story. This guy is NOT a representative of Jesus. He is a satanic
troll.
Nic
"Pastor Steve Winter" <steve-.NO--SPAM@-prime.org> wrote in message
news:jo6ff2lqklo0e4496...@4ax.com...
Bill Kawalec
"Nic C." <nic...@nospammlode.com> wrote in message
news:12ffpgl...@corp.supernews.com...
>I have not posted here in a long while.... but I must reply to this....
>
> No legit "pastor" would even say "trinity scum".
>
> End of story. This guy is NOT a representative of Jesus. He is a satanic
> troll.
>
> Nic
>
hmmmm. I wouldn't go so far as to say "satanic." seems harsh, and maybe even
a bit of a leap, BUT . . . . .
--
I never read email at the Yahoo address!
>
Pastor Steve Winter
>No legit "pastor" would even say "trinity scum".
Apparently the false-christian scum are upset because
I told the truth about their three headed Roman god squad.
Let's take a quick look at why no trinitarian will be saved.
I hope to explain in this brief post why, according to the
Bible, polytheists will die in their sins and spend eternity
in a devils' hell (since hell was not originally intended for
men).
Remission of sins is essential for sinful humanity to be
"sin free". The word "salvation" means "free from sin".
In Acts 2:38 we see that sins are remitted (washed away) by
Jesus name baptism. Now the denominal polytheist is not really
worshipping the single deity, Jesus Christ of the Bible, so they
see no need to be baptised in Jesus name (even though the Bible
clearly commands it). They think that their three "god persons"
need three separate "titles" in baptism. Let us notice the
Pentecostal message preached on the birthday of Christianity.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized
every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of
sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children,
and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God
shall call.
This is because, according to the Bible, Jesus is the Great "I
AM" of the Bible and His name is the ONLY saving name.
Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is
none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be
saved.
Both of the following statements were spoken by the same person:
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said,
Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent
me unto you.
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily , verily, I say unto
you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Now the denominal polytheist will not accept that Jesus is "I
AM". They "don't believe". They are sculpturally
"non-believers". That is why Jesus said that those who would not
accept that He really was the "I AM" would die in their sins. I
believe scripture supports:
1. Those who do not see Jesus as "I AM" see no need to be
baptised in the name of Jesus.
2. Sins are remitted by Jesus name baptism.
3. Those who don't believe in Jesus will refuse Jesus name
baptism and will die with their sins UN-REMITTED.
That is why Jesus said:
John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your
sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your
sins.
Sins are washed away by Jesus name baptism. That is why the
Bible commands it, so one can "put on Christ".
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ
have put on Christ.
I am troubled to see souls deceived into refusing to "put on
Christ".
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call
his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism
of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe
on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name
of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized,
and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
I hope that I have been adequate in this brief study to establish
that Jesus name baptism is the method chosen by God to freely
remit the sins of the repentant believer, and that rejection of
Jesus name baptism results in the retention of ones sins by the
Bible rejecter.
Thank you,
Eric Fisher
your position usally appears, at least to me, that you are angry that
folks believe jesus is deity. it looks like you are mocking the idea
that jesus and the holy spirit can also be "God". however your above
explanation clarifies that you are of the position commonly referred to
as modalism. is this correct? do you see how your usual postings appear
to be against the diety of christ to the average reader?
thanks,
eric
stanmann
Pastor Steve Winter wrote:
Snipped steve's usual trolling nonsense.
> Thank you,
>
> Pastor Winter
> Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
> http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
> Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
> http://tinyurl.com/mxu7o for trinity is antichrist sermon
Wow, its a celebrity in our midst, the famous netkook Steve Winter. I
thought you were dead. Its been like 8 years. I've missed your
ranting.
StanMann
Bill Kawalec
and my sect says YOU won't be saved. which is it???
--
I never read email at the Yahoo address!
"Pastor Steve Winter" <steve-.NO--SPAM@-prime.org> wrote in message
news:crkgf2tmqr8na42mo...@4ax.com...
summerfallwinter
SRobi...@aol.com wrote:
> No one needs to 'defend' Amy Grant. Jesus Christ died for her .... and
> you too, seeing that "we all have sinned and fall short of the glory of
> God." Just be thankful and take care of your own life and be glad in
> the blessings and forgiveness none of us deserves but all of us in
> Christ have the privilege of.
>
> Grow up.
GET REAL, SRobin.
Christ died for sins, for those that would REPENT of them, not for
those that live in continual sin. Jesus said to the adulterous woman,
GO AND SIN NO MORE. He said that for a reason. seems Amy Grant
hasn't learned that yet. I hope she does, for the sake of her soul.
she is not re-married in God's eyes, she is living in adultery, and so
is Vince.
just because the state, or a non-christian church married them, does
not make it a real marriage.
again, please, GET REAL.
Larry Fisk
My Bible says "While we were yet sinners" Christ died for the sins of the
entire world.
If any of us could repent of all our sins, we wouldn't need a savior.
"summerfallwinter" <summerfa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1157141870.2...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Bill Kawalec
--
I never read email at the Yahoo address!
"summerfallwinter" <summerfa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1157141870.2...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
YOU ""get real,"" skippy. WHO are YOU to be passing judgement?!?!? AND you
call yourself a ""Christian"?!?!?!?!
JT
of the reply below.
"YOU ""get real,"" skippy.WHO are YOU to be passing judgement?!?!? " -
This is saying we shouldn't judge.
"AND you call yourself a ""Christian"?!?!?!?!" - is judging in that it
implies that someone isn't really a Christian.
JT
Yes, salvation is something we don't earn BUT we are required to confess our
sins and repent.
I have no strong feelings on Amy Grant but she is a role model and needs to
be clear that while we all make mistakes we need to admit that they are
mistakes and try to reconcile where possible.
On the other hand if she did not claim to be a Christian artist she would
not need to admit to sin - she could revel in it.
"Larry Fisk" <lnfisk...@idahoheartland.net> wrote in message
news:9667a$44f8b348$943f9b7a$26...@STARBAND.NET...
Andy
I'm a new guy here, but I couldn't help but throw in my two pennies on
this.
I work in the music industry. Not Christian or secular or
whatever...just music. I deal with artists, writers and publishers
from all formats. It's very ignorant to judge a situation when you do
not know the facts.
Gary Chapman comes across as a very likable individual. I'm sure he
was at one time. Yet, the man has a drug problem and has been in the
past extremely abusive. It's not for you or anybody else to judge Amy
Grant on when enough is enough. Whether you want to challenge her
Christianity or not, I can say that from a business standpoint, she's a
good person and that's good enough for me. I'm sure she did the best
that she could but there does come a point when one side of a marriage
can only work so hard while the other side does nothing...then
something has to give.
I'm a believer in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour, but I must say
that comments like I've read here and the ignorance that I see really
makes me think twice about grouping myself together with those
less-than-enlightened ones that call themselves "Christians".
Andy
false_anon_...@yahoo.com
summerfallwinter wrote:
> I was as much an Amy Grant fan as anyone, and have every right to state
> a heartfelt opinion.
> I'll boil this argument down to its essence:
>
> - Amy makes big money off of the Christian audience
> with songs
> proclaiming
> things about faith, eternal love, how we can all work through our
> problems.
> Role model to many people. (Good)
> - Amy 'crosses over' to the mainstream, uses a little sex appeal on the
>
> albums (no problem), retains her messages of how we can work through
> all
> problems with love and patience etc. It's like, the central theme of
> her
> music.
> - Amy cheats on her husband
> - Amy divorces her husband
This is irrelevant in the extreme, unless it gets in the way of the
bottom line, then its a sin.
> - Amy rationalizes it,
She does not need to rationalize, she makes money, unless her cash flow
in interupted then she can rationalize.
>and continues to proclaim to be a "Christian"
> artist,
> and sing these songs about reconciliation, eternal love etc.
> (BAD!!!!!!)
irrelevant
>
>
> I thought about peoples arguments about judging others etc, and agree
> that
> many people are too judgmental. But there's some key things that
> cannot be
> justified here. You see, it's not just that she made a mistake and
> everyone
> is human and let's all just forgive and move on. Because not only did
> she
> make an entire living singing songs about EXACTLY WHAT SHE SAID NOT TO
> DO,
> she tries to RATIONALIZE her MASSIVE HYPOCRISY, and refuses to
> reconcile
> with her first (real) husband! (And now with kids by another father
> that's
> impossible) but the point is. When you make millions of dollars
> singing
> songs about how everyone can work out their problems, and then you
> cheat on
> your husband and leave him, you are betraying and nullifying every
> breath of
> word you ever sang about reconciliation and love.
>
>
> So you cheated on your husband Amy. That's OK, everyone is human.
There are two types of humans, poor and Rich, poor is bad rich can do
what ever they want and that in and of itself justifies anything they
do. The Ends always, especially in religion, always justifies the
means.
>
>
> But according to every word you sang to us for 20 years, you had the
> responsibility to make it right, with your husband you claimed to join
> with
> in front of God,
Why ??
As long as she can perform that justifies her actions, if ever she
becomes sick or needs help then she could be mother Theresa and her
church would turn on her like a pack of wolves and chew her up.
Bill Kawalec
--
I never read email at the Yahoo address!
"JT" <jto...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:mM7Kg.21692$rP1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Eric Fisher
news:mM7Kg.21692$rP1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
I have no comment on the Amy Grant issue but have to point out the
hypocracy of the reply below.
bill: "YOU ""get real,"" skippy.WHO are YOU to be passing judgement?!?!?
" - This is saying we shouldn't judge.
bill: "AND you call yourself a ""Christian"?!?!?!?!" - is judging in
that it
implies that someone isn't really a Christian.
bill: YOU ""get real,"" skippy. WHO are YOU to be passing judgement?!?!?
AND
you call yourself a ""Christian"?!?!?!?!
--
From: billk...@yahoo.com (Bill Kawalec)
go yourself, you freakin' idiot.
<><>>><><><
i agree with you, JT, about the hypocracy here. i may be wrong, but i
don't think bill has made a claim to christianity. IF bill were claiming
to be a christian, it woud be even worse, (noting his attitude towards a
brother in christ- or even just his "neighbor" if he wanted to judge the
poster as unsaved.). anyway, thanks for being a voice of sanity. ;-)
Nic C.
"Andy" <Andy...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1157171818.3...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Gary Chapman comes across as a very likable individual. I'm sure he
> was at one time. Yet, the man has a drug problem and has been in the
> past extremely abusive. It's not for you or anybody else to judge Amy
> Grant on when enough is enough.
Um, it's not for you or anybody else to judge Gary Chapman. From what I
hear, he does indeed love the Lord and has his faith.
Nic
Nic C.
judgement about Amy (and Gary's marriage) obviously based only on what you
have heard via media. You are engaging in rumors, that's all. You have no
idea what really happened. If you met Amy and Vince together you would
realize that these two belong together. Amy and Gary were an odd couple and
sometimes mistakes are made when you marry as young as they did. Don't judge
their situation. Let God be the judge. Meanwhile, don't be a jerk and point
fingers. Real Pastors know this.
Nic
"Pastor Steve Winter" <steve-.NO--SPAM@-prime.org> wrote in message
news:crkgf2tmqr8na42mo...@4ax.com...
Pastor Steve Winter
>You, so-called Pastor Steve Winter, seem to be a fake. You are being full of
>judgement about Amy (and Gary's marriage) obviously based only on what you
>have heard via media. You are engaging in rumors, that's all. You have no
>idea what really happened.
Whoa.. I am simply pointing out that she is going to hell
for idolatry, trinity worship. I didn't intend to comment
on any other of her sins. It really doesn't matter how
moral false-christians live since they are lost anyway.
(though some make headlines see www.prime.org/Sewers.html )
Please re-read my post again:
Trinitarianism is, however, not merely stupid and foolish, it is
a spiritually fatal error.
I will explain in this brief post why every trinitarian will
die in their sins and spend eternity in a devils' hell. I do
this not to condemn souls, because the trinitarian is
condemned already, but to warn of the fires of hell.
Jude 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the
fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of
season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and
doctrine.
Remission of sins is essential for sinful humanity to be
"sin free". The word "salvation" means free from sin.
In Acts 2:38 we see that sins are remitted (washed away) by
Jesus name baptism. Now the trinitarian is not really
worshipping the Jesus of the Bible, so they see no need to be
baptised in Jesus name (even though the Bible clearly commands
it). They think that their three gods need three separate
"titles" in baptism.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized
every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of
sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children,
and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God
shall call.
This is because Jesus is the Great "I AM" of the Bible.
His name is the ONLY saving name.
Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is
none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be
saved.
So, you see, trinity preachers really are deceiving people into
hell. I don't just say that to be mean, but rather in the
service of truth.
Both of the following statements were spoken by the same person:
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said,
Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent
me unto you.
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily , verily, I say unto
you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Now the false christian will not accept that Jesus is "I AM".
They "don't believe". They are "non-believers".
That is why Jesus said that those who would not accept that He
really was the "I AM" would die in their sins.
1. Those who do not see Jesus as "I AM" see no need to be
baptised in the name of Jesus.
John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your
sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your
sins.
2. Sins are remitted by Jesus name baptism.
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized,
and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
3. Those who don't believe in Jesus will refuse Jesus name
baptism and will die with their sins UN-REMITTED.
1 Timothy 5:24 Some men’s sins are open beforehand, going before
to judgment; and some men they follow after.
That is why Jesus said:
John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your
sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your
sins.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but
he that believeth not shall be damned.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except
a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into
the kingdom of God.
Sins are washed away by Jesus name baptism. That is why the
Bible commands it, so you can "put on Christ".
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ
have put on Christ.
Trinitarians are deceived by their filthy preachers into refusing
to "put on Christ".
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call
his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism
of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe
on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name
of the Lord Jesus.
What did the people do immediately when Paul told them
to believe on Jesus?
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized,
and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Acts 8:34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee,
of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other
man?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same
scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain
water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder
me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou
mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is
the Son of God.
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went
down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he
baptized him.
39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of
the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and
he went on his way rejoicing.
Notice how the eunuch understood that believing on Jesus included
being baptised. You now have several examples from the Word of
God where hearers of the Word of God knew that belief in Jesus
included baptism.
Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:
and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand
souls.
Even on the day of Pentecost, on the birthday of the New
Testament Church, there were 3000 baptised in Jesus Name. Those
that receive the Word of God get baptised.
Look back just two verses and see that Peter preached Jesus Name
baptism.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized
every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of
sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and
to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall
call.
Pastor sTeve Winter
alt
> Hey y'all,
>
> I'm a new guy here, but I couldn't help but throw in my two pennies on
> this.
>
> I work in the music industry. Not Christian or secular or
> whatever...just music. I deal with artists, writers and publishers from
> all formats. It's very ignorant to judge a situation when you do not
> know the facts.
>
> Gary Chapman comes across as a very likable individual. I'm sure he was
> at one time. Yet, the man has a drug problem and has been in the past
> extremely abusive. It's not for you or anybody else to judge Amy Grant
> on when enough is enough. Whether you want to challenge her
> Christianity or not, I can say that from a business standpoint, she's a
> good person and that's good enough for me. I'm sure she did the best
> that she could but there does come a point when one side of a marriage
> can only work so hard while the other side does nothing...then something
> has to give.
>
> I'm a believer in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour, but I must say
> that comments like I've read here and the ignorance that I see really
> makes me think twice about grouping myself together with those
> less-than-enlightened ones that call themselves "Christians".
>
> Andy
This group (alt.religion.christian) is a kook show. It's like the guy
on the corner yelling, "The End is Nigh!".
I'm just here for the entertainment. But I would suggest you take
everything said (including my stuff) with a huge grain of salt.
From my perspective: It's none of my business what Amy Grant does. It's
her life and she is accountable to God for it. Jesus taught us to look at
the plank in our own eye before removing the spec in our brother/sister's
eye. I got my own problems to deal with and I have no time to criticize
her. My advise to others: if you don't like her music/witness/sex
appeal/shoe size/whatever, then don't buy her music.
alt
> I have not posted here in a long while.... but I must reply to this....
>
> No legit "pastor" would even say "trinity scum".
>
> End of story. This guy is NOT a representative of Jesus. He is a satanic
> troll.
>
> Nic
Just plonk him. the gain in S/N is worth it.
Bill Kawalec
> "Nic C." <nic...@nospammlode.com> spake thusly and wrote:
>
>>You, so-called Pastor Steve Winter, seem to be a fake. You are being full
>>of
>>judgement about Amy (and Gary's marriage) obviously based only on what you
>>have heard via media. You are engaging in rumors, that's all. You have no
>>idea what really happened.
>
> Whoa.. I am simply pointing out that she is going to hell
> for idolatry, trinity worship.
that's not for YOU to judge, mo-fo!!!!! onlt your Creator sits in judgement,
skippy, and YOU do not speak for Him!!!! YOU are lost, dingus, because YOU
do the worst of all!! YOU attempt to make yourself The Judge, you dipstick!
Bite me, you sniveling doorknob!!!
--
I never read email at the Yahoo address!
Bill Kawalec
"alt" <spam...@lazyeyez.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.09.02....@lazyeyez.net...
> On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 21:36:58 -0700, Andy wrote:
>
>> Hey y'all,
>>
>> I'm a new guy here, but I couldn't help but throw in my two pennies on
>> this.
>>
>> I work in the music industry. Not Christian or secular or
>> whatever...just music. I deal with artists, writers and publishers from
>> all formats. It's very ignorant to judge a situation when you do not
>> know the facts.
>>
>> Gary Chapman comes across as a very likable individual. I'm sure he was
>> at one time. Yet, the man has a drug problem and has been in the past
>> extremely abusive. It's not for you or anybody else to judge Amy Grant
>> on when enough is enough. Whether you want to challenge her
>> Christianity or not, I can say that from a business standpoint, she's a
>> good person and that's good enough for me. I'm sure she did the best
>> that she could but there does come a point when one side of a marriage
>> can only work so hard while the other side does nothing...then something
>> has to give.
>>
>> I'm a believer in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour, but I must say
>> that comments like I've read here and the ignorance that I see really
>> makes me think twice about grouping myself together with those
>> less-than-enlightened ones that call themselves "Christians".
>>
>> Andy
>
>
> This group (alt.religion.christian) is a kook show. It's like the guy
> on the corner yelling, "The End is Nigh!".
no doubt people have been saying that since they first learned to
communicate. Sooner or later, one of them will be right.
:-)
--
I never read email at the Yahoo address!
>
Nic C.
You are the type of jerk that might make people prefer going to hell instead
of the heaven you claim to know about. Try a little Billy Graham. Or, may I
say, go to hell yourself.
Nic
"Pastor Steve Winter" <steve-.NO--SPAM@-prime.org> wrote in message
news:d8hjf21jlnl6iuotf...@4ax.com...
Nic C.
PERIOD. Now that says it all.
Again. If people saw Amy and Vince together like I was lucky to in Sonora
for the first 3 Wishes show and actually sat with them at breakfast and
chatted about music, etc., then maybe they would realize that these two
people are meant to be together than the unfortunate match of Amy and
Vince's previous mates when they were so very young. Leave it up to God, not
to us. Once I was very judgemental about Amy myself regarding the divorce
and chose not to listen to her music anymore until 3 Wishes hit Sonora and I
met the nice man Vince Gill and chatted with his lovely wife Amy. I am sorry
everyone cannot have that chance and understand how these two are a great
couple.
Nic
PearL
Bill Kawalec wrote:
> "Pastor Steve Winter" <steve-.NO--SPAM@-prime.org> wrote in message
> news:d8hjf21jlnl6iuotf...@4ax.com...
> > "Nic C." <nic...@nospammlode.com> spake thusly and wrote:
> >
> >>You, so-called Pastor Steve Winter, seem to be a fake. You are being full
> >>of
> >>judgement about Amy (and Gary's marriage) obviously based only on what you
> >>have heard via media. You are engaging in rumors, that's all. You have no
> >>idea what really happened.
> >
> > Whoa.. I am simply pointing out that she is going to hell
> > for idolatry, trinity worship.
>
>
> that's not for YOU to judge, mo-fo!!!!! onlt your Creator sits in judgement,
> skippy, and YOU do not speak for Him!!!! YOU are lost, dingus, because YOU
> do the worst of all!! YOU attempt to make yourself The Judge, you dipstick!
> Bite me, you sniveling doorknob!!!
LOL. I like when trolls post here, ONLY because then I get to read
Bill's replys to them, which always makes me crack up. Thanks Bill. ; )
Bill Kawalec
;-)
--
I never read email at the Yahoo address!
"PearL" <bstn...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1157236519.2...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Arald
>
> Pastor Winters three brain cells have frozen.
That's quite an assumption.... I would not give him credit for three
Does anyone rememeber the 80's movie (I think) "Don't tell mom the
babysitter is dead". This girl (played by Christina Applegate from
Married with Children) asks her brother who is smoking a joint or so
"What if yoy need those last three braincells"? Then he replied "I
won't" ;o) Maybe this person is now back as our pastor?
PearL
Arald wrote:
> Bill Kawalec wrote:
> >
> > Pastor Winters three brain cells have frozen.
>
> That's quite an assumption.... I would not give him credit for three
LMAO !! That was good. ahahaha ; )
Bill Kawalec
computer . . .
or so it would seem.
--
I never read email at the Yahoo address!
"PearL" <bstn...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1157268312.3...@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
nickelshrink
"Bill Kawalec" <billk...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:fsKdnbP7y--gCWfZ...@comcast.com...
>I honestly was going to say two, but then realized he did actually boot up a computer . . .
> or so it would seem.
>
Maybe he has a cat? Mine hit power-strip buttons and
we hear machines whirr on and clunk off all the time.
--
pax
ruth
--
Save trees AND money! Buy used books!
http://stores.ebay.com/Noir-and-More-Books-and-Trains
(remove fspam to reply)
JT
disagree with.
"Bill Kawalec" <billk...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:qrOdnXJ0l_-5q2TZ...@comcast.com...
Eric Fisher
OK - guess the whole "judge not" thing wasn't for you - just for those
you disagree with.
yea, there seems to be a lot of folks from that denomination. ;-)
false_anon_...@yahoo.com
Pastor Steve Winter wrote:
> "Nic C." <nic...@nospammlode.com> spake thusly and wrote:
>
> >You, so-called Pastor Steve Winter,
clergy wantabe.
>> seem to be a fake. You are being full of
Yes he is full of it.
snip
>
> Whoa.. I am simply pointing out that she is going to hell
> for idolatry,
You are just as guilty of idiotry, oops idolatry you made a graven
image of yourself and put it on the internet.
> trinity worship. I didn't intend to comment
> on any other of her sins. It really doesn't matter how
> moral false-christians live since they are lost anyway.
> (though some make headlines see www.prime.org/Sewers.html )
>
Ya lets list the headlines of oneness preachers who brake the law.
> Please re-read my post again:
Why you will make no more sense.
>
snip hate filled post which is hate speech
Anonymous Coward
"Nic C." <nic...@nospammlode.com> wrote:
Amy and Vince could be Mother Theresa and the Pope, but it wouldn't
change the fact that they divorced, and since we don't know what the
circumstances were, we can neither judge nor exonerate any of them.
Just because two people make a good pair isn't a good enough reason to
say that their divorces were righteous / blameless.
A.C.
Anonymous Coward
"summerfallwinter" <summerfa...@gmail.com> wrote:
*snip*
> - Amy 'crosses over' to the mainstream, uses a little sex appeal on the
>
> albums (no problem),
*snip*
Since when is using sex appeal not a problem? Jesus made it clear in
the Sermon on the Mount that lust is as much sin as is physical
adultery, and we as Christians are also called not to cause anyone else
to stumble in their walk with Christ. If Amy knowingly chooses to dress
in such a way as to incite lustful looks from anyone other than her
husband, regardless of intent, it *is* a problem.
A.C.
Bill Kawalec
"Anonymous Coward" <cow...@nospamforyou.com> wrote in message
news:coward-F84106....@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
as a CHRISTIAN, it is your obligation to ASSUME that they ARE blameless,
miserable cretin!!!
--
I never read email at the Yahoo address!
> A.C.
Bill Kawalec
you're a problem!!! this whole thread is a problem!!!
Anonymous Coward
"Bill Kawalec" <billk...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Acts 5:11-13 (NIV):
"But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who
calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater
or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even
eat.
What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you
not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. 'Expel the
wicked man from among you.'"
Paul's justification for this is summed up in verse 7: "Get rid of the
old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast -- as you really
are." The problem is that when those within the body of Christ act in
an un-Christlike manner in sight of non-believers, one of these
non-believers could take their actions as being representative of (or at
the very least condoned by) the body of Christ or Christ himself. It
could also lead other Christians to be deceived, thinking that such
actions are fine among the body.
But this is beside the point. My point is that Amy and Vince's seeming
compatibility cannot serve as a sign of their divorces and remarriage
being acceptable to God. I'm not going to assume either way, but I
dislike the justifications being used to defend Amy's actions.
A.C.
Anonymous Coward
"Bill Kawalec" <billk...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Wasn't this a commercial in the sixties or seventies? "I'm a problem,
you're a problem, he's a problem, she's a problemŠ" (I wouldn't know --
I wasn't alive during those decades.)
A.C.
Eric Fisher
Sermon on the Mount that lust is as much sin as is physical adultery,
and we as Christians are also called not to cause anyone else to stumble
in their walk with Christ. If Amy knowingly chooses to dress in such a
way as to incite lustful looks from anyone other than her husband,
regardless of intent, it *is* a problem.
<><<>
i totally agree- but then i'm just some backward idiot who still thinks
christians should be held accountable for their actions. that doesn't
sell well in usenetatopia. lol
Bill Kawalec
--
I never read email at the Yahoo address!
"Anonymous Coward" <cow...@nospamforyou.com> wrote in message
news:coward-935836....@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
Bill Kawalec
"Anonymous Coward" <cow...@nospamforyou.com> wrote in message
news:coward-E63011....@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
> you're a problem, he's a problem, she's a problemS" (I wouldn't know --
> I wasn't alive during those decades.)
>
you're thinking of "I'm a Pepper." I was paraphrasing Al Pacino in "And
Justice for All." In the movie it was "You're out of order! This whole trial
is out of order!," but I would swear that the TV commercials for the movie
when it was current had him saying "You're out of order! The whole system is
out of order!"
I'm so sorry to hear that you are incapable of thinking, and seriously
believe it's your duty as a Christian to judge others. I hope you get your
problems worked out.
nickelshrink
"Anonymous Coward" <cow...@nospamforyou.com> wrote in message news:coward-935836....@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
> In article <NtCdnTPQq9gHZ2HZ...@comcast.com>,
> "Bill Kawalec" <billk...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> >
>> > Amy and Vince could be Mother Theresa and the Pope, but it wouldn't
>> > change the fact that they divorced, and since we don't know what the
>> > circumstances were, we can neither judge nor exonerate any of them.
>> > Just because two people make a good pair isn't a good enough reason to
>> > say that their divorces were righteous / blameless.
>> >
>>
>> as a CHRISTIAN, it is your obligation to ASSUME that they ARE blameless,
>> miserable cretin!!!
>
> Acts 5:11-13 (NIV):
> "But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who
> calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater
> or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even
> eat.
> What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you
> not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. 'Expel the
> wicked man from among you.'"
Um. First you say: "since we don't know what the
circumstances were, we can neither judge nor exonerate any of them."
Then you quote Paul on how to handle a definitely *confirmed* case of
immorality.
Paul never said : "maybe they are or aren't, but treat them like they're
guilty just to be safe." I think(?) you agree with this?
I can agree that admitting we don't have all the facts, and therefore neither
exonertaing them *nor* pronouncing them guilty is a reasonable position.
I'm more on the side of consdering them blameless because the minister
who counsled the Chapmans for hundreds of hours said the divorce was
Biblical. Ministers can be wrong, too, my only point is that i have no
knowledge of what the *minister* based his pronouncement on ....so that
means i can't judge him as being wrong either. None of us can
know what their counsleing minister knew, so i feel the best Christian
response is to leave him the last word. There's no additional info to refute
him with.
>
> But this is beside the point. My point is that Amy and Vince's seeming
> compatibility cannot serve as a sign of their divorces and remarriage
> being acceptable to God. I'm not going to assume either way, but I
> dislike the justifications being used to defend Amy's actions.
There probably are a few people who see the happiness of the Grant-Gill
marriage as evidence that it was right ....
... but i think a lot more of us simply see that as evidence of God's healing
having been given to all of them, so we can all let it go. We're not so much
saying "Their happiness MEANS it was what God intended."
Anonymous Coward
"nickelshrink" <nickelsh...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I agree that Paul didn't say to treat someone whose guilt is ambiguous
as if they had already been found guilty -- I'm responding to Bill's
assertion that we should automatically assume that Amy and Vince are
blameless because we are Christians. Being a Christian does not clear
us of making judgments about actions that could be in conflict with
Scripture.
> I can agree that admitting we don't have all the facts, and therefore neither
> exonertaing them *nor* pronouncing them guilty is a reasonable position.
Exactly.
> I'm more on the side of consdering them blameless because the minister
> who counsled the Chapmans for hundreds of hours said the divorce was
> Biblical. Ministers can be wrong, too, my only point is that i have no
> knowledge of what the *minister* based his pronouncement on ....so that
> means i can't judge him as being wrong either. None of us can
> know what their counsleing minister knew, so i feel the best Christian
> response is to leave him the last word. There's no additional info to
> refute
> him with.
I would love to go with that, but I have trouble reconciling Gary's
response (the CCM interview following hers) with that. Gary could be
oversimplifying the circumstances, but we don't know that, so I can't
really go either way.
> > But this is beside the point. My point is that Amy and Vince's seeming
> > compatibility cannot serve as a sign of their divorces and remarriage
> > being acceptable to God. I'm not going to assume either way, but I
> > dislike the justifications being used to defend Amy's actions.
>
> There probably are a few people who see the happiness of the Grant-Gill
> marriage as evidence that it was right ....
>
> ... but i think a lot more of us simply see that as evidence of God's healing
> having been given to all of them, so we can all let it go. We're not so much
> saying "Their happiness MEANS it was what God intended."
It takes a little time sometimes? Maybe longer for those of us who
don't have all the information and have to reconcile with that? Or
maybe just for those who take things too seriously? *grin*
A.C.
Anonymous Coward
"Bill Kawalec" <billk...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Anonymous Coward" <cow...@nospamforyou.com> wrote in message
> news:coward-E63011....@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
> > In article <BuqdnSW4RrdpZ2HZ...@comcast.com>,
> > "Bill Kawalec" <billk...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "Anonymous Coward" <cow...@nospamforyou.com> wrote in message
> >> news:coward-56B640....@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
> >> > In article <1157066391.9...@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
> >> > "summerfallwinter" <summerfa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > *snip*
> >> >> - Amy 'crosses over' to the mainstream, uses a little sex appeal on
> >> >> the
> >> >>
> >> >> albums (no problem),
> >> > *snip*
> >> >
> >> > Since when is using sex appeal not a problem? Jesus made it clear in
> >> > the Sermon on the Mount that lust is as much sin as is physical
> >> > adultery, and we as Christians are also called not to cause anyone else
> >> > to stumble in their walk with Christ. If Amy knowingly chooses to
> >> > dress
> >> > in such a way as to incite lustful looks from anyone other than her
> >> > husband, regardless of intent, it *is* a problem.
> >>
> >> you're a problem!!! this whole thread is a problem!!!
> >
*snip*
> I'm so sorry to hear that you are incapable of thinking, and seriously
> believe it's your duty as a Christian to judge others. I hope you get your
> problems worked out.
There's a difference between judging whether or not a person is right
with Christ and whether or not their actions are in line with Scripture.
Christians can be deceived about whether or not their actions are
pleasing to God, and it's important for us as believers to hold each
other to that standard -- with grace, but steadfast in truth.
With regards to my other post, do you really have a problem with that
Scripture? I'm not suggesting any particular application, but I did
want to make the point that it's ENTIRELY Biblical / Christian to hold
other believers up to Scriptural standards.
A.C.
Bill Kawalec
only if you want to set yourself up as the all knowing judge. I got news for
you, Skippy! You ain't!!!
--
I never read email at the Yahoo address
> Christians can be deceived about whether or not their actions are
Anonymous Coward
"Bill Kawalec" <billk...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I don't have to be the all-knowing judge. I just have to use my brain
in the application of Scripture. That doesn't mean I always get it
right, but I believe we're called to try. One could just as easily
accuse someone who refuses to acknowledge the authority of Scripture as
being "incapable of thinking."
A.C.
Bill Kawalec
"Anonymous Coward" <cow...@nospamforyou.com> wrote in message
news:coward-D9FD71....@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
so.... . . are you one of thoe who believes the entire universe was
literally created in 144 hours???
--
I never read email at the Yahoo address!
>
> A.C.
stanmann
Bill Kawalec wrote:
> so.... . . are you one of thoe who believes the entire universe was
> literally created in 144 hours???
Given an omnipotent omniscient God, why not?
Its as good an answer as any other.
It describes order, planning and deliberation, and its just as good as
instantly(also an option for an omnipotent omniscient God) and is way
better than "billions of years" Especially for an omnipotent
omniscient God.
Or are you one of those who believes in a crippled stupid god who can't
see past tommorrow.
--
StanMann
Anonymous Coward
"Bill Kawalec" <billk...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Anonymous Coward" <cow...@nospamforyou.com> wrote in message
> news:coward-D9FD71....@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
> > In article <EsqdnXjKy6FOg2PZ...@comcast.com>,
> > "Bill Kawalec" <billk...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> !
> >> "Anonymous Coward" <cow...@nospamforyou.com> wrote in message
> >> news:coward-6E63E4....@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
> >> > In article <YoadnZ0gX4ZauWDZ...@comcast.com>,
> >> > "Bill Kawalec" <billk...@yahoo.com> wrote:
*snipped some of the older quotes -- this is getting long*
> >> >> I'm so sorry to hear that you are incapable of thinking, and seriously
> >> >> believe it's your duty as a Christian to judge others. I hope you get
> >> >> your
> >> >> problems worked out.
> >> >
> >> > There's a difference between judging whether or not a person is right
> >> > with Christ and whether or not their actions are in line with
> >> > Scripture.
> >>
> >> only if you want to set yourself up as the all knowing judge. I got news
> >> for
> >> you, Skippy! You ain't!!!
> >
> > I don't have to be the all-knowing judge. I just have to use my brain
> > in the application of Scripture. That doesn't mean I always get it
> > right, but I believe we're called to try. One could just as easily
> > accuse someone who refuses to acknowledge the authority of Scripture as
> > being "incapable of thinking."
>
> so.... . . are you one of thoe who believes the entire universe was
> literally created in 144 hours???
I don't have a problem with those who believe that it was, nor do I have
a problem with those who believe that it wasn't. I don't feel in a
position to say that either stance is correct -- I wasn't there when the
world was created, and neither were the scientists who claim that their
carbon dating processes can date our universe to some thousands or
millions or billions of years. It's all speculation, and it doesn't
seem to have much bearing on how I live my life today.
What *does* have bearing, however, are the moral and spiritual teachings
of the Bible. God gave us the grace not to suffer the sacrifices and
punishments of Levitical law, but He hasn't spared us of the
consequences of disobedience or the benefits of obedience.
I'm all for using mental faculties, but some people go too far: "If I
can't understand the reasons behind this law, or if I don't agree with
the reasons provided, I can disregard it." When has it ever been the
case that man has the mental capacity to understand God's will? The
Bible tells us that it ain't gonna happen. Some of God's commandments
are going to fly in the face of our ideas about life, liberty, and the
pursuit of happiness. That's where trust comes in. As I once heard a
speaker say, "There's no such thing as trust without unanswered
questions." You have to trust God enough to obey Him when it doesn't
make sense.
Bill, I don't mean to jump on you in particular, and since all I know of
you is what you've posted on this newsgroup over the years (God help us
all should we be judged by this!), I don't have any insights into how
you live your life or why you think the way you do. Likewise, I'm as
limited a human being as you are -- maybe more so, given my age and lack
of experience -- so I can't claim to be the end-all be-all of knowledge
on spiritual matters. I'm just putting in my two cents about the way of
life that makes sense to me. Let's hope that we all continue to grow in
the knowledge of Christ and that our words and actions while we're here
help other people to know Him as well. :o)
A.C.
Bill Kawalec
HOWEVER, there are reasons to believe that creation was not complete in what
we know as 144 hours. One reasonably concludes that not all in the Bible is
to be taken literally.
Too many scientists, and too many religious leaders fail to see that their
beliefs are not mutually exclusive. Many scientists will, of course, deny
having "beliefs." See the movie "Contact," with Jodie Foster. The second
time I saw it, I think I got the point. No matter which side you land on,
there ARE things you accept on FAITH.
--
I never read email at the Yahoo address!
>
Anonymous Coward
"Bill Kawalec" <billk...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think we agree in principle here (faith and trust being almost
synonymous). I don't think there's anything in the Bible that says
"thou shalt take every word of the Bible literally." I'm just not as
sure that we're allowed liberty with commandments -- not in terms of
being denied free will but with regard to being free of the consequences.
A.C.
Bill Kawalec
"Anonymous Coward" <cow...@nospamforyou.com> wrote in message
news:coward-9652F3....@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
>
> I think we agree in principle here (faith and trust being almost
> synonymous). I don't think there's anything in the Bible that says
> "thou shalt take every word of the Bible literally." I'm just not as
> sure that we're allowed liberty with commandments -- not in terms of
> being denied free will but with regard to being free of the consequences.
so, which commandment says "thou shalt not divorce and re-marry"?? I think
that IS my point. This all comes fom someone's interpretations.
--
I never read email at the Yahoo address!
>
Anonymous Coward
"Bill Kawalec" <billk...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Anonymous Coward" <cow...@nospamforyou.com> wrote in message
> news:coward-9652F3....@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
> >
> > I think we agree in principle here (faith and trust being almost
> > synonymous). I don't think there's anything in the Bible that says
> > "thou shalt take every word of the Bible literally." I'm just not as
> > sure that we're allowed liberty with commandments -- not in terms of
> > being denied free will but with regard to being free of the consequences.
>
>
> so, which commandment says "thou shalt not divorce and re-marry"?? I think
> that IS my point. This all comes fom someone's interpretations.
"You shall not commit adultery." -- Exodus 20:14 (NIV)
"It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a
certificate of divorce.' But I tell you that anyone who divorces his
wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an
adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery."
-- Matthew 5:31-32 (NIV), part of Jesus's Sermon on the Mount.
The commandments forbid adultery. (P -> Q)
Divorce (except for marital unfaithfulness) is a form of adultery. (N ->
P)
Therefore, the commandments forbid divorce (except for marital
unfaithfulness). (N -> Q)
It's been a while since I've had logic, but I think this is an example
of inductive reasoning? Someone correct me if I'm using this wrongly.
At any rate, it's NOT interpretation -- it's Jesus's words in
conjunction with the Ten Commandments.
A.C.
Bill Kawalec
Bill Kawalec
everything he said FIRSTHAND?? Then you are also aware of one of his
greatest hits:
"judge not, lest ye be judged."
--
I never read email at the Yahoo address!
"Anonymous Coward" <cow...@nospamforyou.com> wrote in message
news:coward-1FCF39....@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
Anonymous Coward
"Bill Kawalec" <billk...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> ah!! so you have the "Jesus Live at The Mount" CD, and are aware of
> everything he said FIRSTHAND?? Then you are also aware of one of his
> greatest hits:
>
> "judge not, lest ye be judged."
I'm not going to discuss this with you anymore. You've decided that you
can pick and choose which portions of the Bible are true, and I disagree
with that, so there's no common ground to be found. It's sad when so
much doubt has been placed on God's ability to preserve His Word to
generations of His followers.
A.C.
DWACON
> Amy and Vince could be Mother Theresa and the Pope, but it wouldn't
> change the fact that they divorced, and since we don't know what the
> circumstances were, we can neither judge nor exonerate any of them.
> Just because two people make a good pair isn't a good enough reason to
> say that their divorces were righteous / blameless.
Leave the judging to the Judge... and focus on sharing the good news!
--
The Power House
http://powerhouse-ministry.org
Eric Fisher
..... we can neither judge nor exonerate any of them.
(DWACON) responded:
Leave the judging to the Judge...
<><><><>
lol. boy dwacon, you told him off, didn't you. this proves you are the
better christian.
ps: oops, did you notice he said what you said before you said it?
actually, i realise you have to be expressing your solidarity with
anonymous coward's opinions here. that's why you are reposting his
message. it just looked like you thought you were saying something new.
lol
RvW
read.
Comment from webmaster of Jesus-is-Savior.com...
Amy Grant has influence over millions of people. She claims to be
a Christian. But what kind of message did miss Grant send her fans
when she walked out on her husband in 1999 for another man? I do not
hate anyone, surely not Amy Grant; but divorce is a sin. Christians
are to hate evil (Psalm 97:10). We are living in a sin-loving,
irresponsible generation, where many people are breaking their marriage
vows. It is a clear sign of the apostate condition in America, when
openly adulterous "Christian" entertainers still maintain their
popularity. Amy Grant is a wolf in Sheep's Clothing, and a very bad
example to young Christian girls everywhere.
RvW
SRobi...@aol.com wrote:
> No one needs to 'defend' Amy Grant. Jesus Christ died for her .... and
> you too, seeing that "we all have sinned and fall short of the glory of
> God." Just be thankful and take care of your own life and be glad in
> the blessings and forgiveness none of us deserves but all of us in
> Christ have the privilege of.
>
> Grow up.
>
> If you don't want to listen to her -- then don't. It's just that
> simple.
words from a false christian or non-christian such as yourself should
not be followed.
RvW
Anonymous Coward wrote:
> In article <12fjrd3...@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Nic C." <nic...@nospammlode.com> wrote:
>
> > "alt" <spam...@lazyeyez.net> wrote in message
> > news:pan.2006.09.02....@lazyeyez.net...
> > > On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 21:36:58 -0700, Andy wrote:
> >
> > > From my perspective: It's none of my business what Amy Grant does. It's
> > > her life and she is accountable to God for it. Jesus taught us to look at
> > > the plank in our own eye before removing the spec in our brother/sister's
> > > eye. I got my own problems to deal with and I have no time to criticize
> > > her. My advise to others: if you don't like her music/witness/sex
> > > appeal/shoe size/whatever, then don't buy her music.
> >
> > PERIOD. Now that says it all.
> >
> > Again. If people saw Amy and Vince together like I was lucky to in Sonora
> > for the first 3 Wishes show and actually sat with them at breakfast and
> > chatted about music, etc., then maybe they would realize that these two
> > people are meant to be together than the unfortunate match of Amy and
> > Vince's previous mates when they were so very young. Leave it up to God, not
> > to us. Once I was very judgemental about Amy myself regarding the divorce
> > and chose not to listen to her music anymore until 3 Wishes hit Sonora and I
> > met the nice man Vince Gill and chatted with his lovely wife Amy. I am sorry
> > everyone cannot have that chance and understand how these two are a great
> > couple.
>
> change the fact that they divorced, and since we don't know what the
> circumstances were, we can neither judge nor exonerate any of them.
> Just because two people make a good pair isn't a good enough reason to
> say that their divorces were righteous / blameless.
>
very true
RvW
A.C. I agree with you again.... those were my thoughts exactly, to a
"t" :/
Arrow
> Apparently the false-christian scum are upset because
> I told the truth about their three headed Roman god squad....
>
> In Acts 2:38 we see that sins are remitted (washed away) by
> Jesus name baptism. Now the denominal polytheist is not really
> worshipping the single deity, Jesus Christ of the Bible, so they
> see no need to be baptised in Jesus name (even though the Bible
> clearly commands it). They think that their three "god persons"
> need three separate "titles" in baptism. Let us notice the
> Pentecostal message preached on the birthday of Christianity. ...
We do it because Jesus commanded it in what is known as the "Great
Commission". The 2nd to last last verse of Matthew says:
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the
name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, "(Matthew
28:19)
Arrow
Arrow
Bill Kawalec wrote:
>
> so.... . . are you one of thoe who believes the entire universe was
> literally created in 144 hours???
>
The problem with the billions of years theory is that you can't have
billions of years of death and then death entering the world through
sin.
to read tons on tis subject see www.answersingenesis.org
Arrow
Bill Kawalec wrote:
> so, which commandment says "thou shalt not divorce and re-marry"?? I think
> that IS my point. This all comes fom someone's interpretations.
Matthew 5:31-32
'It was said: "Whoever divorces his wife must give her a divorce paper
but I tell you that everyone who divorces his wife , except for the
fact that she has ben sexually unfaithful, causes her to be looked upon
as an adulteress, and whoever marries a divorced woman is looked upon
as an adulterer."
Matthew 19:1
I tell you, if anyone divorces his wife, except for adultery, and
marries another, he is living in adultery.
Mark 10:12
And if a wife divorces her husband and marries another, she is living
in adultery.
1 Corinthians 7:10-11
If you are married, I command - not I, but the Lord: A wife should not
leave her husband. If she does leave him, she should stay single or
make up with her husband. And a husband should not divorce his wife.
Pastor Steve Winter
>
>We do it because Jesus commanded it in what is known as the "Great
>Commission". The 2nd to last last verse of Matthew says:
>
>"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the
>name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, "(Matthew
>28:19)
Actually you false-christians don't really use the Name because
you don't know what it is. You simply chant the verse in
ignorance instead of obeying it.
John 5:43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not:
if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt
call
his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and
bring
forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing
them
in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
In order to obey Matt 28:19 one MUST be aware of the name that
Jesus
was referring to. Merely chanting the Bible verse is not the
same
as obeying it.
The Apostles obeyed Jesus and used the NAME that Jesus was
referring
to. Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are not names but rather they
are
used to specify which NAME that Jesus wanted to be used.
"Father" is not a NAME, there are many fathers (who also have
names).
"Son" is not a NAME, there are many sons (who also have names).
"Holy Spirit" is not a NAME, and Lord knows that there are a
*bunch*
of demons and spirits running around "pretending" to be "holy"
(to
numerous to name, but one third of the angels).
Jesus Christ is a NAME. And it is a name that the false churches
hate (at least in baptism, where it counts!).
Look also at the previous verse:
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All
power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
If there were any other "god squad members" they would be
powerless.
Some 3 god cultists will actually use the name of Jesus in what
they
perceive to be an insult. They will call the true ONE GOD
Apostolic
Christians "Jesus only" (and they mean it as an insult because
they
actually believe in three separate Catholic gods).
Notice carefully that in Matt 28:19 Jesus said 'name' (singular)
and
not 'names' (plural). For those (like the Apostles) that only
believe in ONE GOD, baptism in a singular name does not present a
problem (ONE GOD, ONE NAME).
To find out what the NAME is that fits the ONE GOD who manifested
Himself as "Father"(Spirit) and as "Son"(Flesh) and as "Holy
Spirit"(Spirit of Christ to indwell saints); we can look and see
how
the Apostles baptised. The Apostles always baptised in the name
of
their God. The Bible says that there is only one name that can
save:
Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of
Israel,
that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified,
whom
God raised from the dead, [even] by him doth this man stand here
before you whole.
Acts 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you
builders,
which is become the head of the corner.
Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is
none
other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be
saved.
There is only one God, and there is only one saving NAME.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized
every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission
of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Water Baptism in Jesus name remits sins.
Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things
concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they
were baptized, both men and women.
People who BELIEVE in the NAME are baptised in that NAME. The
next verse shows how the folks in verse 12 were baptised
Acts 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they
were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Acts 15:26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our
Lord Jesus Christ.
Acts 16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved,
turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of
Jesus
Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
There is POWER in the NAME (that is why the devil and his
ministers fight against Jesus name baptism).
Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism
of
repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on
him
which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Acts 19:5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name
of
the Lord Jesus.
Those who "believed on the name" were baptised in that name.
Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy
Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Acts 19:17 And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also
dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of
the Lord Jesus was magnified.
Notice also the dire warning against the trinity in the Word
of God and how it is a SPOILER of the souls of men.
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy
and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments
of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all
principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made
without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh
by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with
him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised
him from the dead.
Pastor Steve Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
http://tinyurl.com/mxu7o for trinity is antichrist sermon
another_fals...@yahoo.com
> Actually
this guy does not know
> the Lord Jesus
and is not a
> Pastor
snip
Pastor Steve Winter
>> Actually
Actually I don't seek the approval of gutless, anon, Satanic,
false-christian cowards. You should be ashamed of your identity,
very ashamed.
Pastor Winter
Bill Kawalec
"Pastor Steve Winter" <steve-.NO--SPAM@-prime.org> wrote in message
news:ueacg25rc0o7bc8i5...@4ax.com...
> another_fals...@yahoo.com spake thusly and wrote:
>
>>> Actually
>
> Actually I don't seek the approval of gutless, anon, Satanic,
> false-christian cowards. You should be ashamed of your identity,
> very ashamed.
>
> Pastor Winter
"Scuse me, Pastor Winter?!?!?!?!?! Who the BLEEP do you think YOU are, to be
calling ANYONE ""satanic."" YOU, sir, are a babbling heretic!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You sir, should be ashamed. So ashamed that you should go hide your ugly
face under a rock! But no!! You go around preaching a fairy tale
""rapture,"" just to get people to contribute money to YOUR pockets!
FRAUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bite me, ""pastor"" winter!!!!!!!!!!!!
--
I never read email at the Yahoo address!
another_fals...@yahoo.com
Pastor Steve Winter wrote:
snip
> Actually I don't seek the approval of gutless, anon, Satanic,
> false-christian cowards.
snip
like
> Pastor Winter
> --
good advice. Even a broke clock is right twice a day, see "Pastor"
there is hope.
Covenant
"Pastor Steve Winter" <steve-.NO--SPAM@-prime.org> wrote in message
news:ueacg25rc0o7bc8i5...@4ax.com...
>
>>> Actually
>
> Actually I don't seek the approval of gutless, anon, Satanic,
> false-christian cowards. You should be ashamed of your identity,
> very ashamed.
If only the 11th commandement had been THOU SHALT NOT TROLL/CROSSPOST.
--
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands
bop
"summerfallwinter" <summerfa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1157066391.9...@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
>I was as much an Amy Grant fan as anyone, and have every right to state
> a heartfelt opinion.
> I'll boil this argument down to its essence:
>
> - Amy makes big money off of the Christian audience with songs
> proclaiming
> things about faith, eternal love, how we can all work through our
> problems.
> Role model to many people. (Good)
> - Amy 'crosses over' to the mainstream, uses a little sex appeal on the
>
> albums (no problem), retains her messages of how we can work through
> all
> problems with love and patience etc. It's like, the central theme of
> her
> music.
> - Amy cheats on her husband
> - Amy divorces her husband
> - Amy rationalizes it, and continues to proclaim to be a "Christian"
> artist,
> and sing these songs about reconciliation, eternal love etc.
> (BAD!!!!!!)
>
>
> I thought about peoples arguments about judging others etc, and agree
> that
> many people are too judgmental. But there's some key things that
> cannot be
> justified here. You see, it's not just that she made a mistake and
> everyone
> is human and let's all just forgive and move on. Because not only did
> she
> make an entire living singing songs about EXACTLY WHAT SHE SAID NOT TO
> DO,
> she tries to RATIONALIZE her MASSIVE HYPOCRISY, and refuses to
> reconcile
> with her first (real) husband! (And now with kids by another father
> that's
> impossible) but the point is. When you make millions of dollars
> singing
> songs about how everyone can work out their problems, and then you
> cheat on
> your husband and leave him, you are betraying and nullifying every
> breath of
> word you ever sang about reconciliation and love.
>
>
> So you cheated on your husband Amy. That's OK, everyone is human.
>
>
> But according to every word you sang to us for 20 years, you had the
> responsibility to make it right, with your husband you claimed to join
> with
> in front of God, and by all accounts he was willing to take you back
> and
> make it right. I can forgive anyone for cheating, and for being human.
> But
> when they continue to make conscious life choices that are 100%
> hypocritical, while making money off of people they are betraying,
> that's
> about the sickest thing I can imagine.
>
> (Except for the people that continue to defend her...)
>
Solbu
Hash: SHA1
"summerfallwinter" <summerfa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> So you cheated on your husband Amy. �That's OK, everyone is human.
When is that ever OK?
Cheating on your spouse, whatever the reason, is never OK.
If she asked for forgivenes, then she'd be OK with God,
(I don't know one way or the other if she did or not)
but that doesn't mean it's OK to cheat to begin with.
- --
Solbu - http://www.solbu.net
Remove 'ugyldig.' for email
PGP key ID: 0xFA687324
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
iD8DBQFLHyANT1rWTfpocyQRAhuNAJ9smu/lQ8xuNrVFrdt1V5DXxovexwCg1x+o
HAopQJtasbBxIuuqPdiv5K4=
=0/63
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----