Need dimentions for Irish harp
dennis selwa
Hello I need the dimensions for building an Irish harp. I would like to
find something free or inexpensive. Basically I need the string lengths,
info on types of tunning, types of string matereal, basic demensions of
the wood.Is there a harp building newsletter?
Dennis Selwa
Lawrence E Mallette
dennis selwa (dse...@qualcomm.com) wrote:
: Hello I need the dimensions for building an Irish harp. I would like to
: info on types of tunning, types of string matereal, basic demensions of
: the wood.Is there a harp building newsletter?
What kind of Irish harp. The Trinity College harp is about 1.5-2 ft tall,
body carved from a single solid piece of wood, and was strung with wire.
Today's neo-Celtic harps are often much bigger and often strung with
gut or nylon.
I don't know about a newletter, but there is an email list for
harpists, and I think recently a splinter list for builders. I recall
seeing posted about a computer program that will give you string
lengths, diameters and tensions for various size harps and string
materials, so the "science" behind the are is pretty well worked out.
Sorry but the subscription address for the harp list has changed
since I signed off a few months ago. Anyone have it for Dennis?
Larry
mall...@bcm.tmc.edu
Michael Wodzak
dennis selwa wrote:
>
> Hello I need the dimensions for building an Irish harp. I would like to
> find something free or inexpensive. Basically I need the string lengths,
> info on types of tunning, types of string matereal, basic demensions of
> the wood.Is there a harp building newsletter?
Dennis Waring has a book entitled
Making Wood Folk Instruments
which costs about $15. He gives plans for a neo-celtic harp. It has
the looks and approximate size of the Trinity College/Brian Boru harp,
although its body is glued together rather than carved out of a single
block of hardwood as was traditional. Waring does use metal strings (in
the ancient fashion) rather than the nylon/gut which is more common
these days, but one has to wonder how well a glued together body can
cope with such an enourmous strain.
Hope this helps
Michal
Peter Schug
dennis selwa wrote:
>
> Hello I need the dimensions for building an Irish harp. I would like to
> find something free or inexpensive. Basically I need the string lengths,
> info on types of tunning, types of string matereal, basic demensions of
> the wood.Is there a harp building newsletter?
> Dennis Selwa
I've got a great book call "Folk Harps," by Gildas Jaffrennou that has
plans for Irish, and many other harps. It's by MAP Book division, Station
Road, Kings Langley, Herts.
42
Sorry, dunno if it is still in print, but it's a start.
The ISBN is 0 852 42313 6 (Whatever THAT means)
I believe the author is Alan Stivell's father, so the information is
probably pretty good. I started a harp many years ago, but lack of all but
hand tools wore me out. Now I've got the tools, but I'm building fiddles.
Or, more accurately, a fiddle. (Soon to be more, I hope.)
Good luck in finding the book, and don't forget, many libraries can borrow
books from other libraries.
Pete Lemme (or us) know how you make out!!!
Peter Schug
Michael Wodzak wrote: (see under my reply)
Harp bodies were NOT carved out of hardwood. The wood of choice was willow. I don't
know if it was chosen for reasons of being easy to carve or for mystical reasons or
what, but one of the problems (besides finding a big enough piece is that willow
shrinks a lot in drying out and big chunks of willow tend to check. Which is to say
CRACK as they dry out. Don't know much more about it, but I did read an account of a
guy who carved a harp body out of willow and used PEG (polyethelyne glycol) to slow
down the drying out process. Willow is often used for the corner and end blocks in
fiddles too.
Also, how much tension you get with a set of metal strings depends on the guage. Not
a problem, every time the harp cracks, build a new one and got to a lighter guage.
Sooner or later you'll get it right.
Pete
>
> dennis selwa wrote:
> >
> > Hello I need the dimensions for building an Irish harp. I would like to
> > find something free or inexpensive. Basically I need the string lengths,
> > info on types of tunning, types of string matereal, basic demensions of
> > the wood.Is there a harp building newsletter?
> > Dennis Selwa
>
Lawrence E Mallette
Peter Schug (Pete...@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
: Harp bodies were NOT carved out of hardwood. The wood of choice was willow. I don't
: what, but one of the problems (besides finding a big enough piece is that willow
: shrinks a lot in drying out and big chunks of willow tend to check. Which is to say
: CRACK as they dry out.
ALL harps crack eventually, either in the neck or the soundboard. They
are now making the soundboard of special laminates so that it can be
made thin enough not to deaden the sound, yet have the strength to
resist the tremendous strain placed on the wood by the string tension,
which is perhaps greater for nylon or gut than for metal strings.
This explains why so few old harps have survived.. They were played
until they exploded (harpist's lingo), then discarded. Very few
old harps in museums and collections, so that most of today's
"historical" harps are reconstructed from iconographical sources.
It is pretty well established that the early Gaelic harpers
played harps that were strung with wire (after that technology
became available). And they played with the fingernails
rather than the fingerpads.
You should also be aware that there are kits available for
those who wish to build a harp, but not do it from scratch.
Luck to ya'
Peter Schug
Lawrence E Mallette wrote:
>
> Peter Schug (Pete...@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
> : Harp bodies were NOT carved out of hardwood. The wood of choice was willow. I don't
> : know if it was chosen for reasons of being easy to carve or for mystical reasons or
> : what, but one of the problems (besides finding a big enough piece is that willow
> : shrinks a lot in drying out and big chunks of willow tend to check. Which is to say
> : CRACK as they dry out.
>
> ALL harps crack eventually, either in the neck or the soundboard. They
> are now making the soundboard of special laminates so that it can be
> made thin enough not to deaden the sound, yet have the strength to
> resist the tremendous strain placed on the wood by the string tension,
> which is perhaps greater for nylon or gut than for metal strings.
All harps crack eventually, but I am talking about cracking while building it!!!
Just about anything made of wood of wood that doesn't get a lifetime or two or three of
constant care and attention will crack sooner or later, but what I was referring to is
that _ancient_ harp bodies were carved and hollowed from a single block of willow, which
is a very wet wood and often cracks while you are working on it. It is worked green,
because big chunks will always check on drying I am told. This from an old issue of Folk
Harp Journal. To my knowledge the soundboard, pillar and neck? (not sure of the term) were
made from other woods.
Pete
Lawrence E Mallette
Peter Schug (Pete...@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
: Just about anything made of wood of wood that doesn't get a lifetime or two or three of
: constant care and attention will crack sooner or later, but what I was referring to is
: that _ancient_ harp bodies were carved and hollowed from a single block of willow, which
: is a very wet wood and often cracks while you are working on it. It is worked green,
: because big chunks will always check on drying I am told. This from an old issue of Folk
: Harp Journal. To my knowledge the soundboard, pillar and neck? (not sure of the term) were
: made from other woods.
To my eye the Trinity College harp appeared to have body and sound board
all of the same piece of wood, a major bit of carving. I'm not sure but
maybe the resonating, soundboard-analogous part of the old wire harp
didn't have to be as thin. The wires may have provided more volume (???).
Peter Schug
Harp soundboards have the grain going across the body for the very practical reason of
strength. If the grain runs the long way it will pull apart. If we are talking about
the same harp, I believe I saw it when it was exhibited at The Metropolitan Museum
about twenty years ago. (Didn't notice which way the grain ran!)
Pete
Lawrence E Mallette
Peter Schug (Pete...@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
: Harp soundboards have the grain going across the body for the very practical reason of
: strength. If the grain runs the long way it will pull apart. If we are talking about
: the same harp, I believe I saw it when it was exhibited at The Metropolitan Museum
: about twenty years ago. (Didn't notice which way the grain ran!)
I saw it at Trinity last summer, but didn't pay especial attention to
grain direction. I do believe it was vertical, however, not horizontal
as you point out is the current preference. Acutally laminates are
often used for soundboards today, for greater strength from a given
thickness of wood. So the grain may run in _several_ directions.
Larry
Michael Wodzak
Peter Schug wrote:
what I was referring to is
> that _ancient_ harp bodies were carved and hollowed from a single block of willow, which
> is a very wet wood and often cracks while you are working on it.
Recent, microscopical evidence suggests that other hardwoods were also
used. The modern notion that it was only willow which was used seems to
come from early records rather than archeological/scientific evidence.
It is worked green,
> because big chunks will always check on drying I am told. This from an old issue of Folk
> Harp Journal.
Actually, the vast majority of early woodworking was done on green wood
for the simple reason that the tools at hand could not get or keep the
temper and sharpness needed to handle cured wood. I would, moreover
have thought that, if one was worried about a large chunk of wood
checking, one would not spend days carving it only to have the work go
to waste because of splitting. It's not so much the actual size of a
piece of wood which causes the checking, but the configuration of the
rings in the tree from which the wood was taken. By which I mean that
some parts of the block of wood are from rings of tight radius, whereas
other parts are from rings of loose radius. These shink at different
rates which causes the checking. This is not likely to be affected by
carving the piece. Indeed, the way checking is impeded as wood seasons
is to paint the end grain with wax, hence slowing down the drying
proccess. hollowing out a large piece of wood is likely to expose more
endgrain, speed up the drying, and increase the chances of checking. I
think it quite likely, however, that earlier woodworkers had, of
neccessity a better feel for how their wood was going to behave as it
dried than do we.
>To my knowledge the soundboard, pillar and neck? (not sure of the term) >were
> made from other woods.
It's interesting to note that the soundboard in this case is at the back
of the harp. The hollowed out body faces the player.
Michal
dennis selwa
In article <6am9dv$9mn$1...@thefuture.qualcomm.com>, dse...@qualcomm.com
says...
>
>Hello I need the dimensions for building an Irish harp. I would like to
>find something free or inexpensive. Basically I need the string lengths,
>info on types of tunning, types of string matereal, basic demensions of
>the wood.Is there a harp building newsletter?
>Dennis Selwa
Hello Again, If someone could take some external measurements off of
their 34 or 36 string harp I would greatly apreciate it. Mainly I need
the string lenths,guages and types of strings. string separations on the
top and the bottom, and the angle of the strings in relation to a
vertical plumb.The rest of it I can fudge a bit for an irreverent
facsimile of the real thing.Just a half hour with the measuring tape
would do.
Thanks,
Dennis Selwa
>