Pronunciation of "bodhran"
lars...@net66.com
I always had heard it pronounced "boran" until recently, when a couple
of people said it "bow-rown" or something like that. Are there
regional differences?
FOGDILL
David Kilpatrick
In Scotland it is normally called that bloody drum thing!
Pronounced 'bowruhn' locally, but most people say it very quietly and slur
the word a little so their mispronunciation is not noticed. Acceptable are
boh-RAN, ba-RAWN, bod-RAN, bow-RON, and anything else which includes the
vague semblance of the word. The best I have heard is bu-thchrrr-awn, while
trying to keeping out of speaker's direct line of fire.
DK
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Glenn & Vikki
nope!
It's simply pronounced "bow-ran".
Glenness
To reply remove "REMOVETHIS"
from email address.
All the Best!
Glenn & Vikki
Padraic Lavin
> >of people said it "bow-rown" or something like that. Are there
> >regional differences?
>
> nope!
> It's simply pronounced "bow-ran".
> Glenness
The word, (correct me if I'm wrong) is an Irish word, and
is spelt bodhrán. Note the fada on the letter 'a'. This makes it a long 'a'.
The correct way to pronounce it would be bough-rawn.
"bough" being pronounced as in the sentence
"A bough (branch) of a tree."
In some parts of Ireland they would stress the last part
a bit more so it would sound like bough-raaawn, making the 'A' longer.
I have heard people from the very south of Ireland pronounce it this way,
but
in the Northwest, it would be pronounced with the stress a little more on
the first part.
Either pronounciation would be common and also correct in my humble opinion.
Padraic Lavin
http://www.osnamusic.com
Monty--almost full
>
> I always had heard it pronounced "boran" until recently, when a couple
> of people said it "bow-rown" or something like that. Are there
> regional differences?
Pronunciation issues are almost futile to discuss in this format. The
spelling "bow" can suggest the sound of "bow and arrow" or "bow of a ship".
In my dialect of English these are different sounds. In some dialects they
may not be different from each other or they may be different from my
dialect but still different from each other.
Linguistic scholars addressed this problem by devising a phonetic alphabet
in which symbols represented essentially the same sounds regardless of
language, dialect or location in the world. However, e-mail programs don't
normally support these symbols and most non-linguists wouldn't associate the
correct sounds with them anyhow.
We need to remind ourselves that people come to newsgroups from all over the
world, bringing many different dialects -- some affected by regional
differences some from the effects of English being a second language.
As to the pronunciation of "bodhran"-- I got my pronunciation from a live
recording of the Chieftains as the various players were introduced. I have
no way of knowing if Paddy Maloney's pronunciation is "correct" or
"universal", but it's good enough for me.
Monty [||||||||] <------ concertina, pronounced "musical handcuffs"
Michael
moron.. ( and how about that speeling.. how about that H,, lets put it AFTER
the D,, just in case we need it for a hmmm after we clear our thoats from
inferring that the drummer drum a little less than the whole tune every
tune,, please...
Monty--almost full <montysp...@hevanet.com> wrote in message
news:8olv7h$nbt$1...@glisan.hevanet.com...
Lisa Boucher
: The word, (correct me if I'm wrong) is an Irish word, and
: is spelt bodhrán. Note the fada on the letter 'a'. This makes it a long 'a'.
: The correct way to pronounce it would be bough-rawn.
: "bough" being pronounced as in the sentence
: "A bough (branch) of a tree."
DING DING DING! The first correct answer!
Lisa Boucher
David Kilpatrick
<lbou...@bluestem.prairienet.org> wrote:
Correct if you are Irish or Scottish, and get the 'dh' aspirate at the
junction of 'bough' and 'rawn'. But if you are southern English and
literally say 'bough' and 'rawn' as a Londoner would, quite wrong!
that's why I put the little --ch-rrr- in the middle of my spelling (not
dead serious). But there really is quite a difference if that very slight
'chr' sound at the junction of the syllables is absent. and equally bad if
it's deliberately added.
David
BREWERPAUL
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Jeff Lanam
Monty--almost full wrote in message <8olv7h$nbt$1...@glisan.hevanet.com>...
...
>Linguistic scholars addressed this problem by devising a phonetic alphabet
>in which symbols represented essentially the same sounds regardless of
>language, dialect or location in the world. However, e-mail programs
don't
>normally support these symbols and most non-linguists wouldn't associate
the
>correct sounds with them anyhow.
There is a method of ASCII transcription of the International Phonetic
Alphabet
used in sci.lang and other linguistic newsgroups at:
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Evan_Kirshenbaum/IPA/
I don't know IPA well, but I think bodhran works out to /bAUrAn/, for
what that's worth.
Monty--almost full
Jeff Lanam <jeff.lanam@.n.o.s.p.a.m.compaq.com> wrote in message
news:8ooue7$7ie$1...@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com...
> There is a method of ASCII transcription of the International Phonetic
> Alphabet
> used in sci.lang and other linguistic newsgroups at:
>
> http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Evan_Kirshenbaum/IPA/
>
> I don't know IPA well, but I think bodhran works out to /bAUrAn/, for
> what that's worth.
>
Well, that solves half the problem. Now we merely need to teach the
phonetic alphabet to everyone who comes here. Or, how about a celtic
group that accommodates sound files? Now that would be practical.
Monty [||||||||]
Padraic Lavin
for
> a half hour waiting for the definitive pronunciation of "bodhran".
Besides
> even if one can say it correctly, assuming there is a "correct way",
> association with "bodhran" will still convey little respect! :)
I've a feeling its all going to come out now........
BTW - 'Musical Handcuffs' can't stop laughing!
Michael Liebmann
<lars...@net66.com> wrote in message news:39adc8a...@news.net66.com...
>
> I always had heard it pronounced "boran" until recently, when a couple
> of people said it "bow-rown" or something like that. Are there
> regional differences?
According to the tour book I'm using for my upcoming trip to Ireland, it
supposedly sounds like "Bow, Ron."
miss lily
Check out the above website for 'everything you ever wanted to know about
bodhrans' ...
enjoy...
lars...@net66.com wrote in message <39adc8a...@news.net66.com>...
Laridée
Jeez! and I always thought it was "bod-ran!"
In article <39adc8a...@news.net66.com>, <lars...@net66.com> wrote:
Gray Hodge
when visiting Australia told us it was "bow-ron" , presumable an Irish
pronouciation.
Whatever way you say it, the sound it great!
Slan
Gray
"Laridée" <ma...@io.com> wrote in message
news:221020001008438223%ma...@io.com...
>
> Jeez! and I always thought it was "bod-ran!"
>
> In article <39adc8a...@news.net66.com>, <lars...@net66.com> wrote:
>
Ptbrady
>when visiting Australia told us it was "bow-ron" , presumable an Irish
>pronouciation.
Many unaccented syllables in the Irish language have the neutral vowel sound
"uh," as in BOW (rhyme with "sew")-ruhn, or as in "go raibh maith agat" ("thank
you'),
goe ruh ma (as in I'll tell my ma) uh-gut.
And, there are many regional differences.
Pete Brady
Lisa Boucher
: Many unaccented syllables in the Irish language have the neutral vowel sound
: "uh," as in BOW (rhyme with "sew")-ruhn, or as in "go raibh maith agat" ("thank
: you'),
: goe ruh ma (as in I'll tell my ma) uh-gut.
: And, there are many regional differences.
But the "A" in bodhra/n has a fada!
Lisa Boucher
Paul Burke
> But the "A" in bodhra/n has a fada!
>
An a muda too I hope.
Ptbrady
>
code, fadas get dumped. So, if you want to be technical, you can say that the
2nd syllable should rhyme with "raw." However, as I've heard it, it is often
given a neutral "uh" sound.
How about "E/irinn go bra/ch?" This is Anglicized to "go bra" (pronounced as
the garment worn by a woman), as if it were "brach" without the fada, which
means "pus," where "braw" is the correct sound. And, continuing, the
British/Scots word "braw", meaning strong or excellent, apparently comes from
the Gaelic "brea", which should have a short "a" sound. Everything is so mixed
up!
Pete
Darryl L. Pierce
wrote:
>I think the scottish say bod-ran, but a certain maker from Newcastle (UK)
>when visiting Australia told us it was "bow-ron" , presumable an Irish
>pronouciation.
>Whatever way you say it, the sound it great!
For my area of Irish, the pronunciation would be "BOH-rawn".
Is mise le meas,
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Heather
> >I think the scottish say bod-ran, but a certain maker from Newcastle (UK)
> >when visiting Australia told us it was "bow-ron" , presumable an Irish
> >pronouciation.
Well, I'm from Scotland and I say baw-RAHN. I'm not 100% sure if that's the
"proper" Scots pronunciation - that's just how I've always heard it
pronounced. But I know the Irish pronunciation is BOUGH-rawn.
Heather.
Lisa Boucher
: But I know the Irish pronunciation is BOUGH-rawn.
That's how I say it. I learned it from an Irish language instructor from
Galway. It's probably different depending on where you go in Ireland.
Lisa Boucher
Pierre Duparfait
read much about the pronunciation of "bodhran".
Very interesting indeed & I have carefully noted all the different possible
pronunciations... (even tried to "voice" some... when I was alone at home)
The list seems exaustive actually... Now this is how a french speaker would
say it (or try to say):
"BOD (like pot) ran".
But please, could anyone help now with the pronunciation of "uillean pipe"?
I am only joking !
--
Pierre
David Kilpatrick
The easy way out is to call it the union pipe, Irish smallpipes or elbow
pipe, and duck the problem totally :-)
Lisa Boucher
:> But please, could anyone help now with the pronunciation of "uillean pipe"?
: The easy way out is to call it the union pipe, Irish smallpipes or elbow
: pipe, and duck the problem totally :-)
Just think: Uillean in Philly
;>
geo...@connectfree.co.uk
Try ill-yun - it seems to work with most of the uilleann pipers I
know.
Cheers,
Geoff
Darryl L. Pierce
<pierre.d...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>I have been posting and reading in this newsgroup for some weeks now & I've
>read much about the pronunciation of "bodhran".
>Very interesting indeed & I have carefully noted all the different possible
>pronunciations... (even tried to "voice" some... when I was alone at home)
>The list seems exaustive actually... Now this is how a french speaker would
>say it (or try to say):
>"BOD (like pot) ran".
>But please, could anyone help now with the pronunciation of "uillean pipe"?
>I am only joking !
For those who aren't joking, the pronunciation is "IHL-un" for my
Irish.
nifty
Ireland
Jinks B.
> I always had heard it pronounced "boran" until recently, when a
couple
> of people said it "bow-rown" or something like that. Are there
> regional differences?
Gee, when I come into a session with mine, they pronounce it something
like: "Holy [bleep] not another one!"
(C'mon - somebody had to say it! ;-) )
JinksB
World's shyest bodhran player
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Richard Watkinson
David Harris <da...@g8ina.enta.net> wrote:
> Fred
>
You must be a drummer:-)
--
Richard
__ __ __ __ __ _____________________________________________
|__||_ |_ |/ |\ ||_ |_ /
|__||__ |__ |\ | \||__ |__ /...Ceilidh/Barndance music for all occasions
___________________________/ rwa...@argonet.co.uk
A kitten is for life...
Donald Lindsay
> British/Scots word "braw", meaning strong or excellent, apparently comes
from
> the Gaelic "brea", which should have a short "a" sound.
In discussing European language and dialects, phrases such as 'comes from'
are usually misleading.
For example I believe the word 'braw' or 'braa' is also used in Scandinavian
language along with other words also ocurring in Scots such as 'muckle' or
'meikle' and 'stour', none of which are commonly used in the 'English'
language.
> Everything is so mixed
> up!
> Pete
Of course it is! people have to communicate, particularly when they live
near each other...
Language groups, histories and nationalisms are never as cleanly defined and
easy to wave as flags -
ps. You'll find that 'braw' is commonlydescribed as a Scots and not
'British' word - I have never in all my born days heard an Englishman
describe something as 'braw' unless quoting a Scot or singing a song in the
Scots language!
here is a good Scots language link to help with future ambiguities -
http://www.abdn.ac.uk/~src045/
kevinj.fitzgerald
tree) Ron (ans in da doo ron ron).
Ta
Kev
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"Lisa Boucher" <lbou...@bluestem.prairienet.org> wrote in message
news:oKON5.494$ja.255@firefly...
> Ptbrady <ptb...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> : Many unaccented syllables in the Irish language have the neutral vowel
sound
> : "uh," as in BOW (rhyme with "sew")-ruhn, or as in "go raibh maith agat"
("thank
> : you'),
> : goe ruh ma (as in I'll tell my ma) uh-gut.
> : And, there are many regional differences.
>
> But the "A" in bodhra/n has a fada!
>
> Lisa Boucher
nifty
David Harris
Faith Myers
--
Faith
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
Jonathan Quick
news:975104581.612.0....@news.demon.co.uk...
>
> Bore on.
Talking of such things, someone I know has a dog called Madra...
pronunciation, anyone?
Zzzzz...
--
Email: jonatha...@foxtrot.co.uk
Homepage: http://www.foxtrot.co.uk
David Kilpatrick
Lindsay at donal...@hotmail.com wrote on 24/11/2000 11:28 pm:
> For example I believe the word 'braw' or 'braa' is also used in Scandinavian
> language along with other words also ocurring in Scots such as 'muckle' or
> 'meikle' and 'stour', none of which are commonly used in the 'English'
> language.
> ps. You'll find that 'braw' is commonlydescribed as a Scots and not
> 'British' word - I have never in all my born days heard an Englishman
> describe something as 'braw' unless quoting a Scot or singing a song in the
> Scots language!
I get various Scandinavian technical mags and they are easy to understand
with the aid of Scots.
This is what I think:
In the case of 'braw', 'bra' (Swed) etc the Gaelic and Norse are all from
Latin roots anyway, just like the French 'brave'. In fact, you'll find
'brave' used in Yorkshire and south of the Humber as an adjective for 'good'
in limited contexts not to be confused with the modern 'personal courage'
use of the word. And next time the audience shouts 'Bravo!' they're just
saying 'Braw!' operatically.
Donald obviously doesn't class Tynesiders and Northumbrians, aka Geordies,
as Englishmen. 'Braw' and many Lowland/Mid Scots words are used freely 70
miles south of the Border, especially those words with a Scandinavian
influence.
David
David Harris
Darryl L. Pierce
> > I always had heard it pronounced "boran" until recently, when a
>couple
> > of people said it "bow-rown" or something like that. Are there
> > regional differences?
>
>Gee, when I come into a session with mine, they pronounce it something
>like: "Holy [bleep] not another one!"
Ah, feck, and I just asked my wife to buy me a full-sized one since
I've decided to take it up. I thought I'd feel much more welcome than
that... :/
>(C'mon - somebody had to say it! ;-) )
=)
Helen P.
-- Helen
Gerry Milne
<da...@g8ina.enta.net> writes
>Yup
>
The "d" and the "h" are silent and, with any luck, the rest of it as
well. ;^)
--
Gerry Milne
Folk London http://www.grove-cottage.demon.co.uk/folklon/
Chris Ryall
Pronounced pain in the arse in my experience
--
Chris Ryall Birkenhead UK
David Batty
<ch...@cavendish.demon.co.uk> writes
>
> Pronounced pain in the arse in my experience
I am sure you can improve your technique so that you can play along with
a drum, it's not too hard.
David Batty
***************************************
Visit Leyland Accordion Club Website at
http://www.accordionclub.co.uk
email da...@accordionclub.co.uk
***************************************
Donald Lindsay
> as Englishmen. 'Braw' and many Lowland/Mid Scots words are used freely 70
> miles south of the Border, especially those words with a Scandinavian
> influence.
>
> David
Fair do's, Davey! - The Geordies seem to have ended up as honorary Scots for
the purposes of my last post... Some of them I know wouldn't mind that, but
not all would warm to the idea
I bow to your superior knowledge in this case :), but I reckon the point
about 'comes from' still stands even when applied to Latin - people were
already talking before the Romans turned up
discuss...
ps. - are you & I the only people who come to this newsgroup more than once?
Donald Lindsay
> as Englishmen. 'Braw' and many Lowland/Mid Scots words are used freely 70
> miles south of the Border, especially those words with a Scandinavian
> influence.
>
> David
Fair do's, Davey! - The Geordies seem to have ended up as honorary Scots for
the purposes of my last post... bit of a gaffe - I'm lucky it wasn't the ns
pipes list this discussion was being posted to or my name would be mud!!!
Donald Lindsay
either, by the looks of it. Pity that the original got through too...
Donald Lindsay
do you know if there's a newsgroup or discussion forum in Scots language
anywhere?
Royce Lerwick
wrote:
>Bough Rawn
That Gawddammdrum.
Royce
Worldhop/Dance/Keltoid/Electronic/Metal Weirdness
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/118/sfu.html
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/83/royce_lerwick.html
www.royceworld.com
(Zetland Pipes)
Nigel Gatherer
lall...@argyll.wisemagic.com
I can't remember how to subscribe to this mailing list - perhaps a visit
to the "tullochgorum" website would help.
I seem to remember there was a newsgroup called "scot.scots" - you could
try that too.
--
Nigel Gatherer, Crieff, Scotland
mailto:gath...@argonet.co.uk
Chris Ryall
>I am sure you can improve your technique so that you can play along with
>a drum, it's not too hard.
A lot of French stuff is in a sprung 4/4 or 3 time rhythm and a
heavy gig (or worse Bosanova) rhythm across it does little good.
On a good day a second bodrhan will cut in, and the interference
between the different rhythms played by the two will simulate the
stressed beat of say a Mazurka. A shrewd change of tune can take
advantage of this. Fortunately the 'drummers' are unlikely to be
listening and will plough on regardless.
> Pronounced pain in the arse in my experience
Although this can muffle the bodrhan's beat quite nicely the effect
on the session's music is offset by later surgical expenses. :)
To be more serious - the underlying problem in a lot of UK sessions
is that a good proportion of the musicians have no concept of the
underlying dance of their music. Mis-stressed rhythms, medleys of
waltzes with reels, and racing are just manifestations of this.
Our own red headed accordionist had the indignity of a 6/8 jig
drummed across his slow Strathspey a couple of weeks ago.
Interesting musically, but the dancers would have fallen over.
Donald WG Lindsay
haven't got onto the Lallans list just yet, but I did track it down at the
'Tullochgorm' wabsteid (hence the subject line).
For anyone else looking up Scots on the web, I also found this useful link :
http://www.scotsmart.com/cat/42.html
which provides links to the SNDA (Scottish National Dictionary Association),
Scots Language Resource Centre and others. Haven't found an online version
of 'The Patter' yet, but that's another story altogether!
And I'll endeavour to make that my last post for the time being, as I'm sick
of seeing my own name on this newsgroup :) (been distracting myself from
jitters about my forthcoming wedding I think!)
All the best,
Donald 'whitagobesgoatoanim' Lindsay
Nigel Gatherer <gath...@argonet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4a23f3f87...@argonet.co.uk...
David Kilpatrick
Lindsay at donal...@hotmail.com wrote on 26/11/2000 11:22 pm:
>
> ps. - are you & I the only people who come to this newsgroup more than once?
>
Yup, you have a problem with multiple responsasm. I appear to be replying
only to newsgroup and other newsgroups only get one reply. I only see one of
most of my replies, which is often one too many when read the day.
There are some mailing lists where I get nothing but second comings from
every single message.
David
Darryl L. Pierce
<donal...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>While I'm about it, clogging up the server with skreeds of nonsense posts -
>do you know if there's a newsgroup or discussion forum in Scots language
>anywhere?
Try going to <http://listserv.hea.ie>. They have several gaelic
language mailing lists, including one for gaidhlig, if that's your
intent.
Joe Kesselman
> Pronounced pain in the arse in my experience
Not the drum's fault. Some people pick up percussion because they can't
retain a tune... and don't realize that they aren't holding rhythm
either, or that the most important thing in percussion is knowing what
_not_ to play.
Or that microphones seem to love percussion instruments, and pick them
up five times louder than you think you're playing them.
--
------------------------------------------------------
Joe Kesselman, http://www.lovesong.com/people/keshlam/
Appearing December 9 at Walkabout: Together again!
Magpie shares our stage with Kim and Reggie Harris
http://www.WalkaboutClearwater.org/coffeehouse.html
Peter Hughes
news:SjQwGKAO...@cavendish.demon.co.uk...
> From David Batty <da...@sectorsoftware.demon.co.uk> ..
> >I am sure you can improve your technique so that you can play along with
> >a drum, it's not too hard.
>
> A lot of French stuff is in a sprung 4/4 or 3 time rhythm and a
> heavy gig (or worse Bosanova) rhythm across it does little good.
>
Chris, can you clarify what you mean by a 'sprung' rhythm?
Thanks,
Peter.
Paul Burke
> To be more serious - the underlying problem in a lot of UK sessions
> is that a good proportion of the musicians have no concept of the
> underlying dance of their music. Mis-stressed rhythms, medleys of
> waltzes with reels, and racing are just manifestations of this.
>
Now, I've hardly ever seen anybody dancing in a session. I think that
Irish music at least has come a long way from its dance origins, and the
purpose of playing in a session is quite different. I suppose, though,
that I've never really understood why anyone would want to dance anyway.
Paul Burke
Mike Dana
>
> Chris Ryall wrote:
> > Pronounced pain in the arse in my experience
>
> Not the drum's fault. Some people pick up percussion because they can't
> retain a tune... and don't realize that they aren't holding rhythm
> either, or that the most important thing in percussion is knowing what
> _not_ to play.
>
> Or that microphones seem to love percussion instruments, and pick them
> up five times louder than you think you're playing them.
Another problem is that quite often the bodrán player can't hear
himself. Fiddles, flutes and whistles -- all high pitched instruments
to begin with -- are played essentially at ear level. The bodrán is
played down in the lap, pointed (usually) perpendicular to the player's
body. You're sitting in your own instrument's "dead zone", and if
you're surrounded by high-pitched instruments (especially if *they* have
no sense of timing), good luck hearing what you're doing! So the
drummer compensates, thinking he's being drowned-out (or trying to get
sloppy fiddlers or pipers to hold a rhythm!), and everyone else
complains that the drum's too loud.
The easiest answer is to put the drummer on a different level -- if
every one else is sitting in chairs, put the drummer on a high stool.
It might sound silly, but it works! We first tumbled to this while
watching a Chieftains Video, where they had Kevin Conneff sitting on a
stool, above the others. It also has the advantage, if you're playing
with a Highland Piper with "poor" timing, of putting the drum up where
the standing piper has a better chance of actually being able to hear
it. Let's face it; most of these guys are used to military-style snare
drums. You think that bodrán's loud...? ;-)
--
Mike Dana Everett, Washington, U.S.A.
"If you pound it in, it'll squish out."
--Tom Barnts, 11 July, 2000
Marjorie Clarke
Paul Burke <pa...@scazon.com> wrote in message
news:3A239C0B...@scazon.com...
.....which is a good illustration of why dance music played at sessions can
sound dead and monotonous. As long as the musicians can think of it as dance
music and at least imagine people dancing to it, there's a much better
chance that they'll play it with a bit of bounce and lift.. Once they lose
sight of that, there's a danger that, in the case of Irish music, they'll
just play it faster and leave out some of the notes when it gets tricky,
which leaves the music sounding boring and mechanical. English music is
less likely to be speeded up so much but can get a bit heavy and leaden. Not
that the two are necessarily separate: I've heard "Irish" musicians (well,
English people who think it's cool to be Irish) speed up a great, springy
English tune like Morpeth Rant until it sounds like a boring reel, and wind
up waltzes until they sound like flattened-out slow jigs and lose all their
character.
And I have seen people dancing at sessions: waltzes, French bourees, Irish
set dances, Morris solo jigs. If there is space, someone will occasionally
dance - but only if the musicians play the music as if it means something.
--
Marjorie Clarke
JMR
Marjorie Clarke wrote:
>
> Paul Burke <pa...@scazon.com> wrote in message
> > Now, I've hardly ever seen anybody dancing in a session. I think that
> > Irish music at least has come a long way from its dance origins, and the
> > purpose of playing in a session is quite different. I suppose, though,
> > that I've never really understood why anyone would want to dance anyway.
Then Marjorie:
> And I have seen people dancing at sessions: waltzes, French bourees, Irish
> set dances, Morris solo jigs. If there is space, someone will occasionally
> dance - but only if the musicians play the music as if it means something.
>
I'd agree with both Paul and Marjorie about dancing at sessions: it
depends upon the session and session leaders I think. Some will welcome
dancers (or singers), others only want to play the "instrumental" music
(BTW, when did dance music become "instrumental" music anyway?) *their*
way.
When I do go out to hear Irish music nowadays, I either go to a concert
or a ceili. Since I'm not an instrumentalist myself, I find sessions to
be pretty dull more often than not. It seems like one of the main
purposes for the session these days is for learners to get experience
playing with more accomplished musicians. Which is fine and good--if in
the final analysis that means we can have both the dance music *and* the
songs. But sadly, that doesn't often seem to be the case nowadays.
If you take the dance music and songs out of the Irish music tradition,
which is what I believe most sessions are doing, all you're left with is
a rude & noisy cacophony of Irish wannabes, beatin' on bodhrans. Not
that I'm opinionated about this or anything. ;-)
Janet Ryan
Donald Lindsay
> >While I'm about it, clogging up the server with skreeds of nonsense
posts -
> >do you know if there's a newsgroup or discussion forum in Scots language
> >anywhere?
>
> Try going to <http://listserv.hea.ie>. They have several gaelic
> language mailing lists, including one for gaidhlig, if that's your
> intent.
that too, mate - although I'm not so up on the Heilan tung yet, despite my
best efforts
all the best,
Donald
bogus address
[bodhran players sitting on high stools]
> It also has the advantage, if you're playing with a Highland Piper
> with "poor" timing, of putting the drum up where the standing piper
> has a better chance of actually being able to hear it.
I don't think I've ever heard even the worst Highland piper with timing
as bad as even the best bodhran player.
Bodhran players simply do not understand the rhythms of Highland pipe
music, and the instrument is utterly incapable of following them unless
it sticks to emulating a bass drum and doing one-to-a-bar thuds.
A bodhran player's perception of "bad timing" from a piper is simply
that they've managed to throw the piper off the beat with irrelevant
accents.
> Let's face it; most of these guys are used to military-style snare
> drums. You think that bodran's loud...? ;-)
It isn't just volume; a snare drum can (and does) follow the phrasing
of the tune. A snare-drum beating will be specific to a particular
tune, and the drummer will always know the tune they're accompanying.
A bodhran player won't switch to a different pattern for different
tunes or different parts of the same tune; I doubt if many of them
even realize where one tune or part ends and another begins. The
result is that the whole performance gets reduced to a monotone that
confirms the audience's worst preconceptions about all dance tunes
sounding the same.
Players of Scottish music generally manage to keep bodhrans under some
sort of control, i.e. let them do a couple of showpieces and then get
them to switch to an instrument that fits the idiom. Why people who
play in Irish sessions put up with this sort of thing I have no idea,
it deadens the variety and expressiveness of Irish music too.
I am well aware that bodhran tutors say you should know the tune you're
accompanying. I don't hear any audible evidence of this advice ever
being attended to.
(Statement of interest: when I play percussion it's usually a washboard,
which lets me do the same beatings as a military or danceband snare or
tenor drum, only quieter; it doesn't look traditional but it sounds it,
particularly as I not only know what a strathspey is but also *which*
strathspey is being played).
========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html food intolerance data and recipes,
freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources
David Kilpatrick
wrote on 28/11/2000 2:54 pm:
>
> Bodhran players simply do not understand the rhythms of Highland pipe
> music, and the instrument is utterly incapable of following them unless
> it sticks to emulating a bass drum and doing one-to-a-bar thuds.
I fear Jack isn't entirely tongue in cheek on this, but he's very emotive.
The bodhran is not something I play (except as above - one beat per bar, or
slow anyway, just used as a convenient drum). But I have friends who do and
they do not ruin sessions. In fact, they keep quiet until it's appropriate
and sometimes never play at all.
We've had Aimee Leonard teaching fairly large bodhran classes here in Kelso
for a couple of 'seasons' of workshops this year, and with a good teacher
the local bods have become more skilled than the average tape or video
taught player.
Personally, I find the instrument extremely difficult to play and I'm blown
over by the virtuosity of the best players.
We don't tend to have any Highland pipe music in a context where a bodhran
is available. Locally the Highland pipes are considered strictly for outdoor
use, preferably en masse, or for weddings and tourist events. All the
players who come to sessions - without exception - play Border pipes,
Nurthumbrian small pipes or Uillean pipes. They do not necessarily play
Irish stuff, or Gaelstuff, and are more likely to tackle Border, Lowland and
Northumbrian material.
I reckon that as a guitarist I am far more likely to wrong-foot a smallpipe
player than a bodhran player would be. I can manage to get not only the key
signature and tempo but the mode and harmony wrong until I get behind the
tune. And despite counting guitar as a serious enthusiasm, I have to be
objective and say that an insensitive guitarist can ruin a session far more
effectively than anyone else (and when I have had sufficient pints to be
insensitive I don't exclude myself from that!).
Can we now please start slagging off people with shakey eggs, digeridoos and
rainsticks instead :) ?
David
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David Harris
You lucky sods ..... give my best wishes to Aimee, we miss her on the
circuit :((
David
David Harris
I teach the bod, and the first lessons I give are :
know when NOT to play
learn the tunes
watch other musicians
learn to play quietly, much more difficult than loud banging.
Agreed the highland pipes are difficult to play along with, so generally
we dont ("we" being the Telford Branch of Comhaltas Ceoltoiri Eireann),
and I do pride myself on having taught at least these major points to
all my students. We regularly have 6-8 bods appear at our regular
Thursday night session, most of whom I take personal responsibility for,
but in 4 years, the other 20 odd musicians have only ever voiced one
complaint, which was out of my control as it was a visiting Banger !
Lets face it, a Bodhran is just as much a musical (yes - musical)
instrument as any other, and I must confess to getting just ever so
slightly peed off with the over slagging it gets. In the wrong hands it
is only as bad as any other instrument - ever heard highland pipes being
played by a person who you wished you could strangle ?? I have - and he
was stopped.
Thank you for your tolerance.
David
http://www.g8ina.enta.net
David Harris
steppers at ours :))
Telford, Shropshire, The Boat Inn, Thursday nights.
David
JMR
Well, as I said, I think it depends on the sessions. I recall a session
with dancers at Hughes in Dublin, but I think that was only one night of
the week. Also, when living in Co. Donegal, the same--some dancing at
sessions on certain nights, in certain pubs.
Some sessions do play regularly for dancers, but I don't think they are
the rule, either in Ireland or in North America. And I think they are
also generally known as sessions for dancers, not players, if I'm not
mistaken?
And BTW David, I love the bodhran--in the right hands. But then, I've
always had a thing for rhythm players...
Janet Ryan
Peter Thomas
<bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> writes
>
snip
>I am well aware that bodhran tutors say you should know the tune you're
>accompanying. I don't hear any audible evidence of this advice ever
>being attended to.
>
plays a good guitar, mandolin, penny whistle and piano, and sings as an
Irish tenor.
My own attempts on his instrument persuaded me to leave it alone - it is
a subtle instrument.
>(Statement of interest: when I play percussion it's usually a washboard,
>which lets me do the same beatings as a military or danceband snare or
>tenor drum, only quieter; it doesn't look traditional but it sounds it,
>particularly as I not only know what a strathspey is but also *which*
>strathspey is being played).
With my legs no longer aching from yesterday evening, strathspey can
stay just as music for the next week or so.
--
Peter Thomas
James
> the rule, either in Ireland or in North America. And I think they are
> also generally known as sessions for dancers, not players, if I'm not
> mistaken?
>
> And BTW David, I love the bodhran--in the right hands. But then, I've
> always had a thing for rhythm players...
Living in Australia our experience is a bit different. There are so few
bodhran players around that they're quite welcome in sessions (it's the
accordian players that get most of the flack - but that's because they
spend a lot of time playing for the dancers). Session ettiquete is normally
second nature to the players, it's usually the spectators who want to stuff
things up.
A typical night is where music is played for dancing until midnight, and
then the session starts after, but there are also some music or dancing
only nights. Sometimes some of the few sean nos singers also turn up, if
you're lucky.
At one of the best sessions I went to this year, 4 bodhran players and one
of the best didgeridoo players I know played the most amazing impromptu
percussion piece I've heard. We also had a session inside a limestone cave
which had its own dancefloor. The acoustics were amazing.
No matter what the instrument, in the right hands they can sing.
-James
Tim Willets
>wind
>up waltzes until they sound like flattened-out slow jigs and lose all their
>character.
If anything many players of English music play waltzes too slowly to
waltz to.
Most of the recordings of traditional English musicians playing waltzes
indicates a speed similar to French waltzes (what Ballroom dancers would
call a "Viennese waltz" (not the same thing as a Varsoviana, but similar
in speed). Somewhat different to the often encountered dragging out of
the tune until it acts as a kind of surrogate slow air.
>but only if the musicians play the music as if it means something.
Dance music should always be danceable, not matter whether someone
is actually dancing or not - otherwise the "internal logic" of the
tune is lost.
Tim
Chris Ryall
>> A lot of French stuff is in a sprung 4/4 or 3 time rhythm and a
>> heavy gig (or worse Bosanova) rhythm across it does little good.
>>
>
>Chris, can you clarify what you mean by a 'sprung' rhythm?
With a skip. Not as definite as a scots dotted rhythm (in the ABC
stuff there is talk of half and quarter dots!). It can merely be
a stressed volume on a note rather than a true timing thing. A good
tune will have that stress there already in the notes.
"Swing" is another 'rhythm' that isn't terribly drummable. In a
tutorial with French genius Norbert Pignol he had me play a 'cut'
about 30 times before hew accepted it as nearly right. It's just
a grace note. I've seen the same thing with bagpipe burrs etc.
The right timing in this context 'informs the dancers feet' and
as this involves accelerations and deceleration these have to
be hinted in the music.
I don't think most session players care much about this sort of thing
Our lot presently like a 'Strathspey/mazurka'. I guess it could be
a dance but feels more like a technical exercise
examples .. (all 3/4 time)
Waltz 0 0 0 Even this is quite crude. A good tune will already
have the notes there in the right place to inform the
Mazurka O o o dance steps. And a waltz played without any stress
at all on the first note would feel flat, as that is
Bourée O O . the point when the dancers transfer weight to the
other foot. A 'jig' drum overlay in strict tempo
crucifies this sort of subtlty.
I've seen Luke Daniel playing French stuff with Scarp.
Brilliantly fast and fluid but the wrong rhythm. Too metronomic.
Paul Burke
> When I do go out to hear Irish music nowadays, I either go to a concert
> or a ceili. Since I'm not an instrumentalist myself, I find sessions to
> be pretty dull more often than not. It seems like one of the main
> purposes for the session these days is for learners to get experience
> playing with more accomplished musicians.
No. The reason for a session is to play the music. It's not practice for
anything, and it's not a dance without any dancers, and it's not a
concert or a performance. It almost certainly IS something that appeals
to musicians more than to listeners. But then, it's the musicians who do
it, for themselves. You are welcome to come and listen, or join in, or
even dance, if you want.
Paul Burke
Pete Young
>particularly as I not only know what a strathspey is but also *which*
>strathspey is being played).
Once again, Jack Campin hits the nail right on the head. In some
20-ahem years of playing in sessions, I've come across two bodhran
players who have improved a session by their presence. (not both
together). In each case, they'd prefer to sit quietly and learn a tune
they didn't know.
Good rhythm guitarists, bouzouki players, pianists and other
accompanists have the same attitude.
Many bodhran players that I have met are compulsive joiners-in, and
the bodhran appears to offer the easiest route. They seem blissfully
unaware that anything more than 10 minutes perfunctory hammering along
to a Chieftains CD is required to master the instrument. Personally I
think the best thing to play on a bodhran is a flamethrower.
Pete
--
____________________________________________________________________
Pete Young pe...@antipope.org
"Just another crouton, floating on the bouillabaisse of life"
Pete Young
>Some sessions do play regularly for dancers, but I don't think they are
>the rule, either in Ireland or in North America. And I think they are
>also generally known as sessions for dancers, not players, if I'm not
>mistaken?
In Suffolk it's quite common for local step dancers to do impromptu
dances in the middle of sessions.
For Irish music, at least in the sessions I've played in, the two
don't really mix. I think there's a good reason for this: frequently
tunes are played in sessions at speeds which are not appropriate for
dancing too. I was thinking particularly of slip jigs and hornpipes,
which typically get played much faster in sessions, but I think it
also applies in lesser measure to single jigs and reels. Conversely,
polkas and set dance tunes seem to go a lot slower in sessions
than the dancers need.
>And BTW David, I love the bodhran--in the right hands. But then, I've
>always had a thing for rhythm players...
<fx - sound of bodhran being unearthed from bottom of cupboard and
set alight>
JMR
Pete Young wrote:
>
> JMR <ryan...@tc.umn.edu> :
>
> >Some sessions do play regularly for dancers, but I don't think they are
> >the rule, either in Ireland or in North America. And I think they are
> >also generally known as sessions for dancers, not players, if I'm not
> >mistaken?
>
> In Suffolk it's quite common for local step dancers to do impromptu
> dances in the middle of sessions.
>
> For Irish music, at least in the sessions I've played in, the two
> don't really mix. I think there's a good reason for this: frequently
> tunes are played in sessions at speeds which are not appropriate for
> dancing too. I was thinking particularly of slip jigs and hornpipes,
> which typically get played much faster in sessions, but I think it
> also applies in lesser measure to single jigs and reels. Conversely,
> polkas and set dance tunes seem to go a lot slower in sessions
> than the dancers need.
>
> >And BTW David, I love the bodhran--in the right hands. But then, I've
> >always had a thing for rhythm players...
>
> <fx - sound of bodhran being unearthed from bottom of cupboard and
> set alight>
>
Don't flatter yourself.
Janet Ryan
Marjorie Clarke
Tim Willets <ne...@polka.redowa.co.uk> wrote in message
news:slrn928q7q...@polka.redowa.co.uk...
> On Tue, 28 Nov 2000 15:13:25 -0000, Marjorie Clarke
<marj...@theclarkes99.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> >wind
> >up waltzes until they sound like flattened-out slow jigs and lose all
their
> >character.
>
> If anything many players of English music play waltzes too slowly to
> waltz to.
>
> Most of the recordings of traditional English musicians playing waltzes
> indicates a speed similar to French waltzes (what Ballroom dancers would
> call a "Viennese waltz" (not the same thing as a Varsoviana, but similar
> in speed). Somewhat different to the often encountered dragging out of
> the tune until it acts as a kind of surrogate slow air.
Hey, be careful, you trimmed my comment so it wasn't clear that I was
referring to what pseudo-Irish session players do to waltzes. I do agree
about English players erring the other way at times.
>
> >but only if the musicians play the music as if it means something.
>
> Dance music should always be danceable, not matter whether someone
> is actually dancing or not - otherwise the "internal logic" of the
> tune is lost.
Couldn't agree more! That's exactly what I was trying to say.
--
Marjorie Clarke
JMR
Paul Burke wrote:
>
> JMR wrote:
>
> > When I do go out to hear Irish music nowadays, I either go to a concert
> > or a ceili. Since I'm not an instrumentalist myself, I find sessions to
> > be pretty dull more often than not. It seems like one of the main
> > purposes for the session these days is for learners to get experience
> > playing with more accomplished musicians.
>
> No. The reason for a session is to play the music. It's not practice for
> anything, and it's not a dance without any dancers, and it's not a
> concert or a performance.
I agree sessions are to play music, no argument from me there. Also, no
argument from me that the function and purpose of sessions doesn't
include performance of dance music for dancers.
I do think though, that sessions are often for the (de facto?) benefit
of less experienced and knowledgeable players, and even for experienced
players, are often seen as an opportunity to learn new tunes, that sort
of thing.
Though sessions may not be formal teaching sessions (though I have heard
of some being just that), there is teaching and learning going on all
the time at sessions. Its become one of the most common forms of
transmission of the music--probably second only to listening to and
learning from tapes and CDs.
> It almost certainly IS something that appeals
> to musicians more than to listeners. But then, it's the musicians who do
> it, for themselves. You are welcome to come and listen, or join in, or
> even dance, if you want.
Right. I accept that too. Which was why I pointed out that I don't often
attend sessions. I do enjoy dancing--both as occassional participant
and observer. I also enjoy the craic. Which is why I attend ceilis more
than sessions--there is just a different social atmosphere altogether
between the two, and I prefer the former. But as an instrumentalist, I
might prefer the latter. Not necessarily though, as I know a few
musicians here and there who prefer the more socially inclusive
atmosphere of playing at a ceili. Its just that nowadays, session most
definitely dominate the Irish music scene, and ceilis aren't held as
often, at least this side the pond.
If I want to hear high quality performances of the music, I attend
concerts nowadays, especially to hear songs. As I noted in my previous
post, many sessions don't take kindly to singers any more than they do
dancers. That is why singing sessions exist in some places with enough
singers to go round for the evening. But that is even more rare than
the occassional ceili!
Janet Ryan
Chris Ryall
>
>No. The reason for a session is to play the music. It's not practice for
>anything, and it's not a dance without any dancers, and it's not a
>to musicians more than to listeners. But then, it's the musicians who do
>it, for themselves. You are welcome to come and listen, or join in, or
>even dance, if you want.
but the dance and the music (or the song and the music - think of slow
airs if you can) .... are one
Chris Ryall
>Another problem is that quite often the bodrán player can't hear
>himself.
Actually it's listening to others ...
Pete Young
>Don't flatter yourself.
Not wishing to re-ignite the An Phish Fhliuch thread, it was the best I
could do under the circumstances. My apologies.
What you could have said was "a soft spot for rhythm players", to which
the correct answer is "a bog in the Gaeltacht".
Getting back to the subject of dancing in sessions, I gather that there's
an Old Hat Music session at the Ship in Blaxhall, Suffolk, tomorrow
(December 1st). There will almost certainly be demonstrations of Suffolk
step dancing (a.k.a. shuffling from foot to foot without spilling a
drop of the full pint of beer which is traditionally held in the right
hand).
Might pop along myself after band practice - I'll be the one with the
Eb bass, come and introduce yourselves.
My apologies to rec.music.celtic readers for the off-topic nature
of this recommendation.
Peter Hughes
"Pete Young" <pe...@antipope.org> wrote in message
news:slrn92cfq...@cornfed.alien.bt.co.uk...
> Getting back to the subject of dancing in sessions, I gather that there's
> an Old Hat Music session at the Ship in Blaxhall, Suffolk, tomorrow
> (December 1st). There will almost certainly be demonstrations of Suffolk
> step dancing (a.k.a. shuffling from foot to foot without spilling a
> drop of the full pint of beer which is traditionally held in the right
> hand).
>
That's nice - I might pop along. I haven't been there for ages - or to an
Old Hat session come to that.
Peter.
Laridee
<mike...@NOSPAMboeing.com> wrote:
> Another problem is that quite often the bodrán player can't hear
> himself. Fiddles, flutes and whistles -- all high pitched instruments
> to begin with -- are played essentially at ear level. The bodrán is
> played down in the lap, pointed (usually) perpendicular to the player's
> body. You're sitting in your own instrument's "dead zone", and if
> you're surrounded by high-pitched instruments (especially if *they* have
> no sense of timing), good luck hearing what you're doing! So the
> drummer compensates, thinking he's being drowned-out (or trying to get
> sloppy fiddlers or pipers to hold a rhythm!), and everyone else
> complains that the drum's too loud.
ONLY if the drummer doesen't have a clue. Plenty of drummers do (and
don't need to sit on stools, don't play too loud, don't get in the way
and actually ENHANCE the music)
The answer is: get a clue. Listen, a drum is a musical instrument. In
the hands of a musician, it can sound good; in the hands of soemone who
is NOT a musician--like ANY instrument--it doesn't sound good.
Can you argue with that? (oops! I'm sure someone will!)
Darryl L. Pierce
<donal...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Try going to <http://listserv.hea.ie>. They have several gaelic
>> language mailing lists, including one for gaidhlig, if that's your
>> intent.
>
>that too, mate - although I'm not so up on the Heilan tung yet, despite my
>best efforts
>all the best,
Tá go maith. Táim mé féin ar an liosta faoin gaeilge ar feadh 4 bliana
anois. =)
Is mise le meas,
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Jonathan Hohl
> set dances, Morris solo jigs. If there is space, someone will occasionally
I play regularly at a session here in western Massachusetts in the states.
It's a relatively small area and a nice family-oriented pub. Very
frequently we have children and sometimes adults come up to us and either
(1) ask us to play a more dance-oriented tune or (2) just start to dance.
It's always nice to see the dancers. . . . I like the more relaxed, freer
style rather than the "new style" of rigidity.
But as to the other person's comment of "who would want to dance to it
anway?" my reponse would be me! If I could dance, I would . . . Most Irish
dance music I hear makes me wanna get up and start movin'! :)
*Jonathan*
Jonathan Hohl
> concerts nowadays, especially to hear songs. As I noted in my previous
> post, many sessions don't take kindly to singers any more than they do
> dancers. That is why singing sessions exist in some places with enough
> singers to go round for the evening. But that is even more rare than
> the occassional ceili!
That's too bad; at the session I attend, there are these two wonderful girls
who sing occaisionally and usually stop all music from playing, since
they're spellbinding. . . .
*Jonathan*
Mike Dana
Only with the apparent attitude. One doesn't become a "virtuoso" (at
*anything* overnight, and with many (most) individuals, taking the "Get
a clue!" approach is counter-productive. Virtually no one _starts_out_
playing well, and the drum is one of the easiest instruments to learn to
play *badly*. As with any other instrument, unless one is blessed with
a good teacher/mentor, patience must be excercised and *constructive*
feedback is essential.
The steps I mentioned above are helpful tools that have been proven to
*work*, not just with a clueless drummer and good musicians, but with a
*good* percussionist and beginning~intermediate musicians.
*Never* assume that everyone involved in a session is a "professional",
unless you've seen their recording contracts. ;-)
--
Mike Dana Everett, Washington, U.S.A.
"If you pound it in, it'll squish out."
--Tom Barnts, 11 July, 2000
Jonathan Hohl
> the bodhran appears to offer the easiest route. They seem blissfully
> unaware that anything more than 10 minutes perfunctory hammering along
> to a Chieftains CD is required to master the instrument. Personally I
> think the best thing to play on a bodhran is a flamethrower.
See, that's just total crap. It's quite unfortunate, Pete, that the only
bodhrán players you've encountered play the instrument poorly. I'm sorry
that you dont' have any better experiences with the instrument and players.
But just b/c you haven't encountered them doesn't mean they don't exist.
*Jonathan*
Laridee
I'm so sorry! I've broken my solem vow! I promised myself long ago to
never respond to such inane, droll and altogether meaningless banter on
this newsgroup! I'm weak! WEAK! My daughter is 4 and I have enough
sense not to react to her childish effusions. Why do I do it HERE?!?!?
In article <3A27AD8F...@NOSPAMboeing.com>, Mike Dana
Gemma Green
sessions and a little of the bodhrans role in it.
http://www.online.ie/host/traditional_music/blaggers_guide_to_the_session/
bogus address
> I play regularly at a session here in western Massachusetts in the
> states. It's a relatively small area and a nice family-oriented pub.
> Very frequently we have children and sometimes adults come up to us
> and either (1) ask us to play a more dance-oriented tune or (2) just
> start to dance. It's always nice to see the dancers. . . . I like
> the more relaxed, freer style rather than the "new style" of rigidity.
By "freer style" do you mean people doing the same sort of dancing they
would to garage, techno or whatever?
That doesn't happen here, in fact dancing at sessions is unusual. The
problem is excessive knowledge: most of the non-players who go to session
pubs also go to ceilidhs occasionally, so they know what sort of dancing
fits the music - and ceilidh dancing takes organization. You need about
8 people to get anything off the ground, they need to decide what dance
they're going to do, and the musicians have to know what tunes fit it.
This won't happen without a semi-pro dance musician or caller in the
group.
On the other hand, club-style dancing demands higher tempos than Scots
dance music works at - the tunes get smashed to twitching mechanical
bits if you try to play them for that (why Martyn Bennett is so bloody
dire).
What would be a better option all round would be for the dancers to try
step dancing, which has no fixed number of performers and works with the
music as is. That's beginning to catch on, but it's nowhere near as
popular as it ought to be - stepdance teachers have an unfortunate habit
of presenting it as something utterly arcane requiring Druidic discipline.
It's really just drumming with your feet, and anyone can learn to do
something much more interesting that way than any bodhran player in a
fairly short time. (Highland dancing has the same advantages, but a bad
tourist-tat image problem that's going to take years to beat).
========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========
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Dominic Cronin
<mike...@NOSPAMboeing.com> wrote:
>Joe Kesselman wrote:
>>
>> Chris Ryall wrote:
>> > Pronounced pain in the arse in my experience
>>
>> Not the drum's fault. Some people pick up percussion because they can't
>> retain a tune... and don't realize that they aren't holding rhythm
>> either, or that the most important thing in percussion is knowing what
>> _not_ to play.
>>
Indeed - not the drum's fault. Surely the first rule of making music
with *anything* is that you must first listen.
--
Dominic Cronin
Amsterdam
Dominic Cronin
wrote:
>Chris Ryall wrote:
>
>> To be more serious - the underlying problem in a lot of UK sessions
>> is that a good proportion of the musicians have no concept of the
>> underlying dance of their music. Mis-stressed rhythms, medleys of
>> waltzes with reels, and racing are just manifestations of this.
>>
>
>Now, I've hardly ever seen anybody dancing in a session. I think that
>Irish music at least has come a long way from its dance origins, and the
>purpose of playing in a session is quite different. I suppose, though,
>that I've never really understood why anyone would want to dance anyway.
>
>Paul Burke
Personally, I reckon that's how you tell when the session is a real
killer!! When it is, *somebody* will dance.
--
Dominic Cronin
Amsterdam
Jonathan Hohl
"bogus address" <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:69...@purr.demon.co.uk...
>
> > I play regularly at a session here in western Massachusetts in the
> > states. It's a relatively small area and a nice family-oriented pub.
> > Very frequently we have children and sometimes adults come up to us
> > and either (1) ask us to play a more dance-oriented tune or (2) just
> > start to dance. It's always nice to see the dancers. . . . I like
> > the more relaxed, freer style rather than the "new style" of rigidity.
>
> By "freer style" do you mean people doing the same sort of dancing they
> would to garage, techno or whatever?
*lol* No. . . I mean traditional Irish step dancing, except without the
arms-by-the-side, smile-all-the-time, riverdance sort of thing. . . .
They're still step dancing, but arms are waving, and heads are bopping. . .
.
*J*