boehm style flute vs Celtic style vs penny whistle
Murray, Joseph C.
ago.
I have also started picking up the penny whistle some.
Does the Celtic style wooden flutes use the same fingerings as the penny
whistle?
Any advantages or disadvantages to using a Boehm style flute for this type
music?
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Christopher John Smith
Murray, Joseph C. <Joseph...@jdedwards.com> wrote:
>I started playing Celtic music on a boehm style flute a little over a year
>ago.
>I have also started picking up the penny whistle some.
>Does the Celtic style wooden flutes use the same fingerings as the penny
>whistle?
The Irish "simple system" or 8-keyed flute uses roughly the same
fingerings as the tin whistle. However, there are embouchure and breathing
issues specific to the flute that don't really come up on the whistle.
Many kids start out on whistle even if they subsequently are going to go
to flute, pipes, or even strings.
Boehm system flute is considerbly less workable than simple system for
playing Irish tunes, especially in the realm of
ornamentation/articulation. However, Joannie Madden of Cherish the Ladies
uses Boehm system, and the great Paddy Carty used a Radcliffe-system
instrument (sort of an interim version b/w simple system and Boehm).
If you want to play the music in the tradition, you're probably going to
get the best/most efficient results if you a) start with tin whistle and
b) think in terms of eventually moving to simple system flutes. There are
good sites on the web for both. Email me offlist for more info.
cjs
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
--
Chris Smith - Lecturer in World Music at IU; Producer: "One World" at WFIU;
Musician: Altramar medieval music ensemble, Amandla (African jazz), Las
(Irish/Scots traditions); Author: "Celtic Backup"; (p) 812/855-2664
(WWW) http://www.indiana.edu/~smithcj "Do your best" -- Shakyamuni
Lance22
>whistle?
>music?
Simple system flute uses pretty much the same fingerings as the whistle,
depending on the particular flute you have. Whistle is a good starting
instrument for both flute and pipes.
There are moves that you can make on a simple system flute that you can't do on
a Boehm flute and vice versa. The main reason I went from the silver flute to
a wooden flute is that I prefer the sound.
Lan...@aol.com
J.L. Huffer
James Stewart
(expensive) old English flutes by Potter and others. These flutes are
larger in diameter and have larger holes than German, French, or american
flutes of the nineteenth cnetury and are, therefore, louder and have a bit
more snap to the fingering. The (cheaper) German instrument, of which there
are many more available, are, however, sweeter in tone and play better into
the third octave. Most of the late 19th and early 20th century American
flutes are more or less in the German style, particularly in the style of
Meyer's instruments. They are often quite good and relatively inexpensive.
Most of these were sold by Sears and Roebuck for a couple of dollars.
Murray, Joseph C. <Joseph...@jdedwards.com> wrote in message
news:D1888B3D8792D11187D6006008A10E5F043D4690@CORMAILS8...
> I started playing Celtic music on a boehm style flute a little over a year
> ago.
> I have also started picking up the penny whistle some.
> Does the Celtic style wooden flutes use the same fingerings as the penny
> whistle?
> Any advantages or disadvantages to using a Boehm style flute for this type
> music?
>
>
Feadog
whistle?
Yes - key of D.
>Any advantages or disadvantages to using a Boehm >style flute for this type
music?
I'll pass on this one - it depends on the skill of the player, but for the
"average" player the wooden flute may have a more Celtic timber, and be better
for ornaments.
Bill
Stephen Copinger
Murray, Joseph C. wrote in message ...
>I started playing Celtic music on a boehm style flute a little over a year
>ago.
>I have also started picking up the penny whistle some.
>whistle?
Yes.
>Any advantages or disadvantages to using a Boehm style flute for this type
>music?
>
Stand by for the flames! Some people have extremely strongly held views on
this subject. Personally, I use both styles of flute, depending on what I'm
trying to do. The advantage of the traditional flute, is it's easier to
perform traditional ornamentation. With a keyed flute you need to work to
avoid the clattering of keys. You really need both a strong knowledge of how
traditional music sounds and strong Boehm flute technical ability. Using
classical techniques tends to make the music lifeless. A traditional flute
has a different tone to the Boehm.
OTOH a Boehm flute can give a greater range with easier control than a
traditional flute. Good classical training added to traditional technique
can give additional musical tools - providing they are used appropriately.
The Boehm also has a wider variety of intonation, you can vary the "voice"
more to suit different tunes. Also in a large group its easier to pump out
the volume on a Boehm without unduly affecting accuracy of pitch.
Really it's a case of horses for courses. What are you trying to achieve in
any given piece: pick whistle, traditional flute or Boehm flute to suit. If
you can play all three well and have an proper understanding of the music it
simply widens your toolbox and brings more variety.
Beannachd leibh
Stephen
Feadog
>I started playing Celtic music on a boehm style flute a little over a year
ago.
>I have also started picking up the penny whistle some.
>Does the Celtic style wooden flutes use the same fingerings as the penny
>whistle?
Forgot to mention in my earlier post: check the following web site for info on
the Irish flute.
http://www.sover.net/~bhurley/flute.html
Bill
Paul Burke
> The Irish "simple system" or 8-keyed flute uses roughly the same
> fingerings as the tin whistle. However, there are embouchure and breathing
> issues specific to the flute that don't really come up on the whistle.
And the fingering/ embouchure/ breathing varies wildly from flute to
flute. The simple flute is a very hit-and-miss device, almost as much so
as a pipe chanter/reed combination.
I've played may flutes, anbd my conclusion is that the best flute is
someone else's!
By the way, I've got two flutes here I find totally unplayable, one a
rather ragged keyed simple, one a perfectly good Rudall Carte 1869
system. If anyone can make anything of them, come and get them!
Paul Burke.
Kevin Krell
I am learning both. There are definite differences in style and
tone. Keyless Irish flute fingering is similar to whistle. Many
flutes may vary as to best cross-fingerings in each octave,
particularly C natural.
Disadvantages to the Boehm for this type of music:
1. Difficult fingering in the typical keys (D & G) - that F# is tough
to move back and forth to - much easier on Irish flute or whistle.
2. Hard to use the Eb key so common for good intonation on the Boehm.
Practice low D to E to F# and combinations. Or cheat and leave the Eb
key off where possible.
3. Jumping the octave might be more difficult - different fingering
for F3 in octave 1 & 2, for instance. Boehm technique usually
involves more diaphraghm support for that vs. tightening of the
embrochure.
4. Key noise. Although I only have a keyless Irish flute - I don't
know how noisy a keyed flute might be.
5. Fingering for cuts and other ornaments will be different, making
certain choices easier or more difficult.
Advantages:
1. Fully chromatic. But so is a 6-key or greater Irish flute.
2. Readily available repair people and supplies.
3. 3rd and 4th octave accessible, and to low B with a B foot.
Murray, Joseph C. wrote:
>
> I started playing Celtic music on a boehm style flute a little over a year
> ago.
> I have also started picking up the penny whistle some.
> Does the Celtic style wooden flutes use the same fingerings as the penny
> whistle?
> Any advantages or disadvantages to using a Boehm style flute for this type
> music?
>
Patrick Gillard
writes
details! address, phone, nearest airport!
but seriously, an unplayable Rudall Carte?
--
Patrick
If you ate pasta and antipasta,would you still be hungry?
James Stewart
Patrick Gillard <Pat...@faustina.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dk$MnIAwt...@faustina.demon.co.uk...
> >rather ragged keyed simple, one a perfectly good Rudall Carte 1869
> >system. If anyone can make anything of them, come and get them!
> >
Can fix. Will send postage. No problem.
James stewart 1913 Winchester
Champaign, IL 61821
USA
(217) 359-7888
jnst...@prairienet.org
James Stewart
James Stewart <jnst...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:7v6u5u$guk$1...@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net...
paul
5 Greenhill
Bonsall
Derbyshire
DE4 2AE
UK.
I said the Carte 1869 is unplayable FOR ME!
But offer stands open (personal callers only)
Paul
Andrea
<Joseph...@jdedwards.com> wrote:
>Does the Celtic style wooden flutes use the same fingerings as the penny
>whistle?
>Any advantages or disadvantages to using a Boehm style flute for this type
>music?
The fingerings are pretty much the same, though top D on flute is
easier as 0xxxxx (first finger up) than xxxxxx. From playing a number
of flutes I've found all of them have slightly different preferences
for cross-fingering... you learn as you go!
I don't play Boehm system flute, but I've been on a few workshops and
the Boehm players seem to have problems with some of the
ornamentation. They can't do crans for instance. (Nor can I, but
that's not the flute's problem!) OTOH if they're playing in sessions
you can hear them, not always the case with wooden flute. You can also
push them harder than wooden flutes I think. If you want chromatic
capability there are two things you can do,
(1) buy an F flute, an A flute, etc. But this is a more
expensive strategy with flutes than it is with whistles....
(2) get a keyed wooden flute. The ornaments and the feel of
the instrument are the same but you get some extra capability in
playing, particularly, Bb, G#, F nat, and you get a C on the bottom.
I hope this is helpful. BTW, I have a Sweet piccolo and flute, and
have also played a Rutzen (English maker) that I found enjoyable.
Olwell's bamboo flutes are very well regarded and I'm going to get one
of those; Brian Finnegan of Flook plays them and mentions their
flexibility and easiness (he uses a lot of tonguing) as the reasons
why. They're also inexpensive, I'm told.
Paul Burke
>
> (2) get a keyed wooden flute. The ornaments and the feel of
> the instrument are the same but you get some extra capability in
> playing, particularly, Bb, G#, F nat, and you get a C on the bottom.
>
But for at any speed, the fingering is ferocious. Moreover, the springs
are often weak and take an age to settle back down again. I tend to use
cross- fingerings for C natural, B flat and F (more successful in the
higher register), half- cover the G hole for G sharp (notably hit and
miss), and try not to play many of them anyway! I have nothing but
respect for our pre- Boehm classical forebears.
Paul Burke
Luke O'Malley
>
> On Mon, 25 Oct 1999 11:05:59 -0600, "Murray, Joseph C."
> <Joseph...@jdedwards.com> wrote:
>
> >Does the Celtic style wooden flutes use the same fingerings as the penny
> >whistle?
> >Any advantages or disadvantages to using a Boehm style flute for this type
> >music?
>
> The fingerings are pretty much the same, though top D on flute is
> easier as 0xxxxx (first finger up) than xxxxxx. From playing a number
> of flutes I've found all of them have slightly different preferences
> for cross-fingering... you learn as you go!
>
> I don't play Boehm system flute, but I've been on a few workshops and
> the Boehm players seem to have problems with some of the
> ornamentation. They can't do crans for instance. (Nor can I, but
> that's not the flute's problem!) OTOH if they're playing in sessions
> you can hear them, not always the case with wooden flute. You can also
> push them harder than wooden flutes I think. If you want chromatic
> capability there are two things you can do,
> (1) buy an F flute, an A flute, etc. But this is a more
> expensive strategy with flutes than it is with whistles....
> the instrument are the same but you get some extra capability in
> playing, particularly, Bb, G#, F nat, and you get a C on the bottom.
>
> have also played a Rutzen (English maker) that I found enjoyable.
> Olwell's bamboo flutes are very well regarded and I'm going to get one
> of those; Brian Finnegan of Flook plays them and mentions their
> flexibility and easiness (he uses a lot of tonguing) as the reasons
> why. They're also inexpensive, I'm told.
Do you know if the open-hole Boehm flute has the same problem with the
ornamentation?
--
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