Meaning of the word planxty
Bruce Wayne Harmer
Could someone please tell me the meaning of the word planxty.It
seems to relate to surnames as in Loretto Reid's song "Planxty Robinson"
but I've seen it in some of O'Carolan's work. My hunch is it's a
dedication but I'd like to know for sure.
Matb
In <5cm8nc$o...@nr1.toronto.istar.net> Bruce Wayne Harmer
From what I understand - and may the Irish scholars whelp me with their
books - a planxty is a song, often a lament, written for someone recently
dead. Hence 'Planxty Robinson' 'Planxty Noel Hill' (the Pogues) and plenty
others. (+)
From what I gather, planxty has the same roots as _plangent_ and _plaintive,
both obviously evoking mourning. (A plangent, actually, is the sound of
waves striking the shore.) On neither hand, I've never seen planxty
described in any music dictionary, despite it being a fairly common Irish
music term.
-Matt
(+) After hearing the Pogues' version, I immediately sat down and wrote a
(not-too-similar-sounding-but-yeah-kinda-derivitave) 'Planxty My Back
Steps.' -- which was, after all, where I wrote the song.
(Noel Hill, is of course a fairly famous Irish figure.) Then I found what a
planxty was... then, about three years back, my back steps fell to pieces -
concrete erosion - and I took the song out again. They were, after all, my
favorite sitting spot.
Dadgad
A Planxty is a form of dance most common on the west coast of Ireland
hence the name of the tunes ie: Planxty Keane.
Anselm Lingnau
In article <5cm8nc$o...@nr1.toronto.istar.net>,
Bruce Wayne Harmer <bwha...@mail.htl.net> wrote:
> Could someone please tell me the meaning of the word planxty.
A `planxty' is a piece of music in free form, i.e., not (necessarily) a
dance tune like a jig or reel, usually written in honour of a patron.
The harper, Turlough O'Carolan, went for planxties in a big way, thus if
a tune is called `Planxty Somebody-or-other', chances are it is a
Carolan tune. There is a whole bunch of planxties in the Carolan chapter
of O'Neills Music of Ireland.
Planxties come in various speeds and time signatures. Compare, for
example, `Planxty Hewlett' and `Planxty Irwin', both of which are
in 3/4 time and might be considered waltzes by some, to `Planxty
George Brabazon', which is more of a 4/4 hornpipe.
Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau ......................... lin...@tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de
Maybe this world is another planet's Hell. --- Aldous Huxley
Richard Robinson
In article <5cmqhv$g...@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com>,
Matb <mbr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>In <5cm8nc$o...@nr1.toronto.istar.net> Bruce Wayne Harmer
><bwha...@mail.htl.net> writes:
>>
>>Could someone please tell me the meaning of the word planxty.It
>>seems to relate to surnames as in Loretto Reid's song "Planxty
>Robinson" but I've seen it in some of O'Carolan's work. My hunch is
>it's a dedication but I'd like to know for sure.
>
>From what I understand - and may the Irish scholars whelp me with their
>books - a planxty is a song, often a lament, written for someone recently
>dead. Hence 'Planxty Robinson' 'Planxty Noel Hill' (the Pogues) and plenty
>others. (+)
>
>From what I gather, planxty has the same roots as _plangent_ and _plaintive,
>both obviously evoking mourning. (A plangent, actually, is the sound of
>waves striking the shore.) On neither hand, I've never seen planxty
>described in any music dictionary, despite it being a fairly common Irish
>music term.
I have heard that Carolan made the word up because he thought it
sounded impressive. Not that I know.
--
Richard Robinson, Leeds, UK.
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem
Nothing in the above should be read as suggesting that
I may wish to receive bulk mailshots. I do *NOT*.
--
--
Richard Robinson, Leeds, UK.
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem
MoonRose13
Hello Everybody,
I am a harpist, and so I have played quite a few of O'Carolan's Planxties.
He was quite prolific with them. He was a traveling harper and stayed at
different households. He wrote his Planxties in tribute to the people of
the household. More often than not these were people of the aristrocracy.
The pieces read Planxty and the name of whomever he is honoring. For
instance, " Planxty Irwin, " "Plantxty Barbazon," and so forth. I hope
this sheds some light.
Love and Blessed Be,
Theresa
Lawrence E Mallette
Talk about urban folklore!
A planxty is *not* a lament in honor of a deceased person.
A planxty is* not* a style of dance in Ireland.
A planxty is *not* a "free form" piece of music.
Planxty *is* a term invented by Carolan to describe a piece of music
he wrote in honor of a patron. He write words to go with many of
his planxty tunes. Some of these words have survived, but they are
seldom performed: 1) they are in Irish, and 2) it is said that
Carolan was a better composer than poet. And who today really cares
that Colonel John Irwin was a wonderful host who always kept his
guests' cups full? (for example).
On the other hand,
There *is* a dance that was invented to fit the length of (at least)
one of the hornpipe style planxties (sorry i forget which one)
Many planxties do not have the (all too) predictable 8 bar repeated
structure of the typical Irish dance tune: AABB AABB AABB, eg.
And many have longer B sections than A sections. Many have very long
melody lines without direct repeats of phrases. So in a sense they
*are* less structured than dance tunes or many modern songs. But then,
so are some of the other harp tunes that have survived - Give Me Your
Hand is a prime example.
Donal O'Sullivan's fine piece of scholarship on O'Carolan is a
wonderful source, unfortunately out of print:
O'Sullivan, Donal: Carolan, The Life, Times and Music of an Irish
Harper,1958 (reprinted in 1984) Celtic Music, 24 Mercer Row, Louth,
Lincolnshire, England.
It summarizes the background of each tune, the sources of the tune,
the degree of certainty with which it can be attributed to Carolan,
and reprints English translations of some of the lyrics. It gives
the sheet music for the 200+ presumptive Carolan tunes that have
survived. Some of the tunes are marked with asterisks as being only
"possibly" attributable to Carolan - the evidence was suggestive but
not definitive. Unfortunately, the Ossian reprint of this music
collection omits the asteriks, and doesn't even attibute the collection
and numbering of the tunes to Donal O'Sullivan.
O'Sullivan's work also gives a biography and much related material. Really
an interesting read for anyone who is intrigued by Carolan, as I am.
jmoul...@aol.com
In Donal OSullivan's Carolan: The life times and music of an Irish harper,
there is discussion of this word and its origin.
OSullivan concludes: that its use originated with Carolan, that he
intended it as an English word but most interesting says that Carolan only
applied it to four tunes: Planxty: Maguire, Peyton, Plunkett and Stafford
(all the others only had the names of the patron for which it was
intended). OSullivan says of that Carolan may have used the word to
describe any of his more lively melodies. He further states that it is his
opinion that George Petrie's understanding of the meaning of the word
planxty, which is given in Ancient Music of Ireland (1855) is not
supported by the facts.
John Moulden
Singer, Percussionist, Writer, Lecturer,
Researcher, Publisher, Song Hunter
Ulstersongs Mail Order (Books and Cassettes)
http://members.aol.com/jmoul81075/ulstsong.htm
John A. Hickman
> >seems to relate to surnames as in Loretto Reid's song "Planxty Robinson"
> >but I've seen it in some of O'Carolan's work. My hunch is it's a
> >dedication but I'd like to know for sure.
>
> other sources I can't recall to cite), a planxty is a tune "in honor
> of ...", often of a patron. It is "not necessarily bound to the strict
> rhythms of a dance tune." (an almost-exact quote from RW).
>
> Not all planxtys (planxties?) have the word in their title.
> F'rinstance, "Hewlett's" is sometimes listed as "Planxty Hewlett" (or
> vice versa, though the first is the one I see most often).
> --
> Opinions experssed are not necessarily blah woof...
Well, I might just as well add my thoughts to the many already voiced in this thread,
none of which seem any more authoritative than mine.
I had always been of the opinion that the word "planxty" was an ancient Irish word
meaning "good health to you", which would fit nicely into the idea that Carolan, and he
is the only one I know to have used the expression, wrote the tunes in appreciation for
various patrons and others who were kind to him. A recent story I heard was that the
Fanny Power in the planxty of the same name, was the daughter of one of his patrons, and
he wrote the planxty in honour of her wedding. The story is that Carolan died before he
could perform it at her wedding. I can't swear to the accuracy of the latter story, but
for an old romantic like me, it's just great.
Keep the Faith
Jack Hickman
--
John A. Hickman
Personally Guided Tours of Historic Kingston
Tel.: 613 546-7597 - Fax 613 546-3468
E-mail: jhic...@fox.nstn.ca
http://www.novatech.on.ca/guided_tours
Matb
>Talk about urban folklore!
Thank you for the thumping,
A bit less snotty next time, perhaps?
-M
Michael McCool
Richard Hackwith
>
>I had always been of the opinion that the word "planxty" was an ancient Irish word
>meaning "good health to you", which would fit nicely into the idea that Carolan, and he
The way I heard it was that planxty was a corruption of the Irish word
slainte, which does mean Health and is the most common term used in
making toasts.
Richard
********************************************************************************
Richard Hackwith <> Sacramento CA <> r...@calweb.com
Homepage http://www.calweb.com/~rph <> http://www.calweb.com/~rph/irish.html
********************************************************************************
Rick Deevey
On 29 Jan 1997 19:17:02 GMT, mall...@bcm.tmc.edu (Lawrence E
Mallette) wrote:
>Talk about urban folklore!
>
>A planxty is *not* a lament in honor of a deceased person.
>
>A planxty is* not* a style of dance in Ireland.
>
>A planxty is *not* a "free form" piece of music.
>
>Planxty *is* a term invented by Carolan to describe a piece of music
>he wrote in honor of a patron. He write words to go with many of
>his planxty tunes. Some of these words have survived, but they are
>seldom performed: 1) they are in Irish, and 2) it is said that
>Carolan was a better composer than poet. And who today really cares
>that Colonel John Irwin was a wonderful host who always kept his
>guests' cups full? (for example).
I sort of recall reading somewhere a theory that the composer of a
planxty would attempt to render the name of the person (for whom the
tune was written) musically in the first bar or two.
More bullshit?
It's a good story anyway....
Rick Deevey.
My "Reply To:" address is altered to avoid getting auto-mailed spam in my E-Mail.
To reply, remove the "88" at the front of the address.
RJNA
I have a book about harps and harpers that I bought in Ireland, and it
proposes the theory that it is a vocal approximation of the harper's test
or tuning notes that would be played prior to starting a tune. On the
brass strings they would sound like "planks-tee." If anyone wants, I'll
look up the source and page numbers. I think the book is called "The
Harp's a Wonder."
Rebecca Arkenberg
rj...@aol.com
nti...@art.unt.edu
Sheadel
The best "definition" I've heard was that a planxty meant "a tip of my hat
to ye' ". whether this was a translation, I don't know but it seems to
fit a bit better that "to honor someone". Thus PLanxty Irwin would
represent: a tip of my hat to tou, Mister Irwin, rather than: this song is
in your honor, Mr. Irwin.
K. Nolan
MoonRose13
Dear Rebecca,
Who are the author and publisher of this book? I am a harpist, and I
created the harp forum on AOL. I would love to post the information on
our forum. Thank you very much.
Laura Lynn Layla Lawson
Hello
I am looking for a book called Going Home it is the story of the
Scottish/Gaelic band Runrig. Any one know where I can get a copy. Also if
anyone knows where I can mail order some of their CDs?? Or if you are
selling any used ones??
Thanks for any help
LLLLaura
jmoul...@aol.com
In article <19970129214...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, jmoul...@aol.com writes:
>Subject: Re: Meaning of the word planxty
>From: jmoul...@aol.com
>Date: 29 Jan 1997 21:47:23 GMT
>
>In Donal OSullivan's Carolan: The life times and music of an Irish harper,
>there is discussion of this word and its origin.
Please note the date and time of sending; it has just appeared from my server. (At
18.20 on 12th February 1997)
I would be grateful if I could be told:
Have other members of the group seen this already or has it just "arrived"?
Some others of my posts have taken an inordinate time to appear in my newsgroup server but this is a record; have others any similar experience?
To whom should I complain or is it just one of those things/
Paul Toland
Try the fanclub ... 1 York St, Aberdeen, AB11 5DL Scotland. You can
buy direct and pay by cc ... but I think the book has gone out of print.
However, if you can find it, it's well worth it!
Susan
EM Norris
On 6 Feb 1997, Laura Lynn Layla Lawson wrote:
> Hello
>=20
> I am looking for a book called Going Home it is the story of the
> Scottish/Gaelic band Runrig. Any one know where I can get a copy. Also =
if
> anyone knows where I can mail order some of their CDs?? Or if you are
> selling any used ones?? =20
>=20
> Thanks for any help
>=20
> LLLLaura
>=20
> ll...@interlynx.net
>=20
>=20
Dear Laura,
=20
The book you want is called Going home, the Runrig story, by Tom Morton.=20
It's published by Mainstream Press in Edinburgh (1991) and costs =A312.99.=
=20
The ISBN number is 1851584110, if you want to order it from a bookshop.=20
Happy reading!
=20
=20
Elspeth.
