What are the origins of Lakes of Pontchartrain?
Sarah F. Wassum
jm...@cornell.edu (Jim Brewster) writes:
>In article <1996Mar11.110555.1@ucsvax>, nsel...@aardvark.uoknor.edu wrote:
>
>> As a far as I know, lakes of Pontchartrain seems to be from the Civil
>War. The
>> Planxty version, according to the liner notes from the album, came to them via
>> Mike Waterson, who thought it sounded Irish. There seem to be other other
>> versions, too. I have a recording of Maggie Holland doing a very different
>> version on a Hot Vultures lp from about a dozen years ago, and that one makes
>> direct reference to England, which means the song had probably long
>crossed the
>> Atlantic. In addition, I came across yet another version in the book _Folk
>> Songs of Wisconsin_, from which Daithi Sproule had recorded some songs, altho
>> not Pontchartrain. Hard to saw much else about it, except to say it probably
>> is American and is definitely from the nineteenth century because of the
>> references to railroads. Other than that, who knows?
>> -- Nigel Sellars
>
>I don't know the song, but isn't New Orleans on Lake Pontchartrain? There
>is a big Irish population in New Orleans, so maybe the song was written by
>Irish-Americans in New Orleans during the Civil War?
Betsy McGovern, who plays regularly in O'Flaherty's in New Orleans, has recorde
d a version of this song. I seem to recall that once, when I saw her play, she
said something about having learned the song from a record purchased in Irelan
d...
nsel...@aardvark.uoknor.edu
>>Dr John Barrow wrote:
>> my recollection is that it was a "classic" well before Brady recorded it in
>> about 1977-ish
>>
Then JGP wrote:
>Didn't Planxty record this in the early '70s? I know it is on the
>"Planxty Collection" a compilation of their first three albums, but I
>Don't recall which album it was on originally.
>Anyway, it is an American song.
Harry H.Howard
Jim Brewster <jm...@cornell.edu > wrote:
>In article <1996Mar11.110555.1@ucsvax>, nsel...@aardvark.uoknor.edu wrote:
>
>> As a far as I know, lakes of Pontchartrain seems to be from the Civil
>War. The
>
>I don't know the song, but isn't New Orleans on Lake Pontchartrain? There
>is a big Irish population in New Orleans, so maybe the song was written by
>Irish-Americans in New Orleans during the Civil War?
>
Okay I can help at this point. Prior to the Civil War(also known as
the "War between the States") there was a very large population of
Irish living in and around New Orleans. In Fact,the Irsh make up to
Brigades of Volunteers from Louisiana. One of the Most famous was
Wheats Brigade,who were instrumental with the Confederate win at First
Manassas(1st Bull Run).Stonewall Jackson relied on them in a fight as
much as Lee did J.E.B. Stuart. The Lake Pontchartrain was the area
most of the Irish lived around(these days it's pretty much an open
sewer).
ghost
>Just to confuse things further, I have a distant memory of a
>bluegrassish (or was it Cajunish?) version of the song from an old vinyl
>album by a band called something like the Louisiana Bog Trotters. And
>when we (Hot Vultures) played live on Roz & Howard Larman's "Folk Scene"
>show in Santa Monica circa 1980, somebody telephoned in to say they
>once saw Hank Williams live singing the song.
>
>Maybe try a cross-posting query to rec.music.country-oldtime?
Not to mention "The Fellow That Shot The Dog", definitely an Irish set
of words, sung to exactly the same tune as "Ponchartrain" by a very
disgruntled famous Irish singer (more famous for singing "Ponchartrain"
than "Dog") in a bar where everybody, not having been charged admission,
decided to do what I've since learned is standard Irish pub behavior where
you haven't paid a cover, which is to talk loudly through the songs or tunes
but clap enthusiastically at the end of each one.
The dog lives; the fellow probably doesn't, due to all the insults the song
hurls at him.
I've also heard a Cajun song sung to that tune. Its a recent recording,
& very unusual in that the singing is harmonized, which until recently
Cajuns didn't do. I wrote the name of the CD down on the back of a bar
entertainment schedule; weeks later I said "why am I keeping that expired
schedule around", forgetting why & throwing it away (can't find it on a
quick around my desk, anyway, so its as good as thrown) so I can't tell you
whom the Cajun version is by.
cindy
Connor's book "Bringing it All Back Home" (companion piece to the
series) she writes:
"In 1946 Helene Stratman-Thomas recorded a Mrs Frances Perry of Black
River Falls in Wisconsin singing "The Lakes of Ponchartrain". Mrs
Stratman-Thomas noted that Mrs Perry learned the song from a family of
settlers from Georgia. She also remarked that the song was to be found
all over America 'from Nova Scotia to Texas'.
In Ireland the song was recorded nearly twenty years ago by Christy
Moore, one of the country's most popular singers of ballads. He learned
the song from the English traditional singer, Martin Carthy. In 1978
another Irish singer then singing folk and traditional material, Paul
Brady recorded the song for his first solo album,which took its title
'Welcome Here Kind Stranger' from a line in the song. It is supposed in
Ireland that the young man is a soldier returning home from the American
Civil War. Over 200,000 Irishmen did fight in the American Civil War,
although mostly on the Union side."
Norman Lampert
alligators I'd sleep out in the swamp" which would seem to place it
somewhere in the bayou country. Also, musicians and singers like to
borrow tunes, songs and instruments from other cultures when it
strikes their fancy; which is why so many Irish musicians play the
bouziki.
Harry H.Howard
cindy <lyn...@frii.com> wrote:
>Ireland that the young man is a soldier returning home from the American
>Civil War. Over 200,000 Irishmen did fight in the American Civil War,
>although mostly on the Union side."
I have to take fault with this.Being a southerner I know from my own
readings that the Irish were pretty well represented on both sides.
The South had two brigades one division and atleast two troop of
Calvary entirely of Irish. The largest part coming from the Louisiana
Area or gulf coast region.
Read Shelby foots works or Web search for confederate troop list.
Great reading anyway.
Harry