Riverdance question
Matt Volkmer
Just a question about Riverdance. Ive watched the video 'Riverdance -
New show' and am just curious as to how the 'tap' sounds are so loud.
Is this just the way it is or are there some kind of microphone system in
use?
ethan taylor sellers
In article <5lf397$51r$1...@adelaide.dialix.com.au>,
I've heard thirdhand that it is indeed amplification. There are a couple
lead dancers whose feet are miked and run through the sound system to give
that thunderous effect. The rest of the dancers - according to the person
who was telling me this - are local dancers and not members of the troupe,
and they are not miked.
This way, the project is able to pay union scale or something for local
talent and keep the number of full-timers to a manageable expense.
Or so I'm told by a somewhat jaded dancer friend of mine.
I wouldn't dismiss the idea out of hand, though.
Ethan
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Ethan Taylor Sellers
etse...@midway.uchicago.edu - http://student-www.uchicago.edu/users/etseller
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grs...@nicom.com
On 15 May 1997 23:02:23 +0930, mat...@adelaide.dialix.com.au (Matt Volkmer) wrote:
>
> Just a question about Riverdance. Ive watched the video 'Riverdance -
> New show' and am just curious as to how the 'tap' sounds are so loud.
> Is this just the way it is or are there some kind of microphone system in
> use?
>
>
>
The microphones are then linked to a small transmitter on the
back of the dancer. The transmitter sends out a signal and is
filtered out.
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Nicole Meer
In article <EA8Ar...@midway.uchicago.edu>
etse...@midway.uchicago.edu (ethan taylor sellers) writes:
> I've heard thirdhand that it is indeed amplification. There are a couple
> lead dancers whose feet are miked and run through the sound system to give
> that thunderous effect. The rest of the dancers - according to the person
> who was telling me this - are local dancers and not members of the troupe,
> and they are not miked.
Yes, Riverdance uses amplification to accentuate the sound of the hard
shoe dancing. You wouldn't be able to hear the dancing in those huge
theaters, otherwise. The two lead dancers and the next eight principle
dancers' shoes have microphones. Your friend is correct that the rest
of the dancers are not miked. The dancers are all part of the
Riverdance dance troupe, though if someone gets seriously hurt it's not
unheard of to recruit the local champion to the show (Lord of the Dance
did so in Australia). But there is no way the bulk of the company
could change for every venue. Riverdance and LOTD have had auditions
in major cities to add dancers their touring companies. It's
incredibly competetive, and both shows are interested in recruiting the
only the best dancers to join the troupes. Not only would changing most
of the dancers frequently be completely impractical, but according to
everything I've read--including press information with pre-printed full
cast lists of both Riverdance companies--it's not true. Your friend
may rest assured that, no matter whatever other problems there may be
with RD and LOTD, this is not one of them.
Nikki
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Lee Thompson-Herbert
In article <5lfrc7$te$1...@bilbo.reference.com>, <grs...@nicom.com> wrote:
> The taps are loud because there are microphones in the shoes.
> The microphones are then linked to a small transmitter on the
> back of the dancer. The transmitter sends out a signal and is
> filtered out.
Interesting. From looking at the LOTD video, it would appear that
Flatley has solid metal taps on his shoes, rather than the more
common fiberglass taps. What kind of microphone/pickup are they
using in the shoes?
Oh, and it's not unheard-of for irish dancers to have metal taps, as
long as they're solid instead of jingle taps. They're just heavier
than the fiberglass taps. And hall and stage owners tend to get upset
if you dance inside wearing them. [evil grin]
--
Lee M.Thompson-Herbert KD6WUR l...@crl.com
Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades.
"There are some people who will argue whether the flames are blue
or green, when the real question is that their arse is on fire."
Rob Chalmers
>Just a question about Riverdance. Ive watched the video 'Riverdance -
>New show' and am just curious as to how the 'tap' sounds are so loud.
>Is this just the way it is or are there some kind of microphone system in
>use?
For an answer straight from the horsie's mouth (apologies to Michael
O'Gorman), try this link:
http://www.riverdance.com/backstage/ogorman_int.html
Royce Lerwick
Nicole Meer wrote:
>
> In article <EA8Ar...@midway.uchicago.edu>
> etse...@midway.uchicago.edu (ethan taylor sellers) writes:
>
> > I've heard thirdhand that it is indeed amplification. There are a couple
> > lead dancers whose feet are miked and run through the sound system to give
> > that thunderous effect. The rest of the dancers - according to the person
> > who was telling me this - are local dancers and not members of the troupe,
> > and they are not miked.
>
> Yes, Riverdance uses amplification to accentuate the sound of the hard
> shoe dancing. You wouldn't be able to hear the dancing in those huge
> theaters, otherwise. The two lead dancers and the next eight principle
> dancers' shoes have microphones. Your friend is correct that the rest
> of the dancers are not miked.
While remaining skeptical about the technological feasibility of rigging
a reliable mike system that could be seriously banged underfoot for two
hours at a crack without static, breakup, or an incredible amount of
surface noise, the supposition that a large chorus of hoofers stomping
on hardfloors unmiked would be inaudible is naive, and might only be
true in your basic barn or shed. (Indoor arena or outdoor amphitheater.)
Since all this stomping originates from and on the floor itself, and
witht he help of added hard panels, is rather loud, it is no trick to
pick nearly all of this up from every foot on the floor at any location
by taking advantage of an acoustical effect called the "floor" or
"surface wave." Any microphone (usually setup in a mike "mouse" or
unobtrusive foam bubble) placed just enough above the floor to avoid the
direct vibration and rattling of the floorboards themselves, would be
picking up a pressure wave about 1/4" high or higher that channels very
efficiently any noise hitting the floor, and happily, if that noise
originates also at floor level, this wave transmits itself at almost the
same level across the floor as if the mike were right at the source
itself.
The interesting thing again, is that sound originating higher off the
floor is not nearly as efficiently transferred into the floor wave
effect, so all the costume wrustling, band, PA feedback, and other
usually very annoying problems in sound reinforcement take themselves
out of the picture. I could be wrong, though I swear I've seen the mike
mice onstage, but beating the crap out of a mic diaphragm, power supply,
and transmitter at a measured 30 stomps per second must have taken some
major innovation in the basic design of the mike unit and wireless
transmitter.
Royce
PS, you aren't going to get that sound with just the principles miked.
Royce Lerwick
Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote:
> Interesting. From looking at the LOTD video, it would appear that
> Flatley has solid metal taps on his shoes, rather than the more
> common fiberglass taps. What kind of microphone/pickup are they
> using in the shoes?
>
> Oh, and it's not unheard-of for irish dancers to have metal taps, as
> long as they're solid instead of jingle taps. They're just heavier
> than the fiberglass taps. And hall and stage owners tend to get upset
> if you dance inside wearing them. [evil grin]
Again, the noise made by any tap, especially steel taps on hardwood is
loud enough alone. The notion that a troup of 30? or whatever hammering
away in a concert hall would be lost without sophisticated amplification
is techno-centric. They've been tapping and singing for hundreds of
years without it to crowds as big.
Royce
Amy Battis
In article <338128...@wavetech.net>, Royce Lerwick says...
least one microphone a couple inches above floor level, if not more.
Amy
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Nicole Meer
In article <338126...@wavetech.net>
Royce Lerwick <pmle...@wavetech.net> writes:
>
> While remaining skeptical about the technological feasibility of rigging
> a reliable mike system that could be seriously banged underfoot for two
> hours at a crack without static, breakup, or an incredible amount of
> surface noise, the supposition that a large chorus of hoofers stomping
> on hardfloors unmiked would be inaudible is naive, and might only be
> true in your basic barn or shed. (Indoor arena or outdoor amphitheater.)
As an Irish step dancer, I well know how loud the fibreglass heels and
tips of Irish step dancing hard shoes can be. I also know how--no
matter how loudly I perform a hornpipe, if the musicians are amplified
and the acustics aren't worked out, people will have to struggle to
hear me. Unfortuately, as you pointed out, Riverdance and LOTD do
perform in arenas and amphitheaters where acoustics are not always the
best. The sound designers had to take this into consideration. The
following is an excerpt of an interview with the sound designer for
Riverdance, and may help to clear up your quesitons. The full text can
be found at http://www.riverdance.com/backstage/ogorman_int.html
"In addition to several stage microphones the dancing shoes of eight
principals were also wired. Damage to the equipment was minimised by
placing the microphone in the shoe's instep. A cable runs from the shoe
to the sock, along the outside leg to a small radio transmitter unseen
on the performer's back. The signal is then picked up by a receiver at
the mixing desk and fed into the sound system."
> Since all this stomping originates from and on the floor itself, and
> witht he help of added hard panels, is rather loud, it is no trick to
> pick nearly all of this up from every foot on the floor at any location
> by taking advantage of an acoustical effect called the "floor" or
> "surface wave."
Indeed, this technique is also used. I did not mean to imply that
there would be no sound if the shoes were not wired; I simply meant to
say that it was one of the techniques used. That is why I said
microphone technology is used to "accentuate the sound of the hard shoe
dancing." And one method they use, as stated above, is miking the
shoes of eight principle dancers.
> PS, you aren't going to get that sound with just the principles miked.
>
If you earlier argued that *no* microphones are needed to get this type
of sound, then why wouldn't you have equal or greater sound with the 8
principles miked? I think I'm misunderstanding your meaning.
Lee Thompson-Herbert
In article <5m0579$1...@vassun.vassar.edu>,
Nicole Meer <nim...@vassar.edu.REMOVE_THIS> wrote:
[...]
>
>If you earlier argued that *no* microphones are needed to get this type
>of sound, then why wouldn't you have equal or greater sound with the 8
>principles miked? I think I'm misunderstanding your meaning.
I think he's just being a crotchety old man. ;}
Seriously, most music halls are designed with _symphony_ in mind.
Many of them now have tilted floors. Great as an accoustical horn,
but the dancers hate them. Set people hate them too, since dance
troupes end up having to build their own (level) temporary stage
on top of the tilted one. But the main point is that the hall
is often painstakingly designed with a different set of frequencies
in mind. Old music halls didn't have all the accoustic engineering,
which had its good and bad points, and they weren't nearly as large
as most modern auditoriums.
He really just sounds like an old fart folk musician, complaining
about anything that's amplified. How many folkies does it take to
change a lightbulb? 4. 1 to change the lightbulb, and 3 to complain
that it's electric. ;}
[and before you flame, I'm used to both dancing and _singing_ without
amplification.]
John McGing
If you've ever seen the shoes used ("hard shoes") you will see that the
inner heels are built out. The more built out, the easier to get the two
feet to "click" as they pass by each other on a kick, for example. Of
course, the better you are, the smaller the buildout.
Whatever, the material of the build out accentuates the click. Take a
pair of hard shoes and jsut use your hands to make a click (swipe the
shoes past each other) and you'll be surprised at the sound. Loud.
Clear. Penetrating. Now imagine doing it with the force of a trained
dancer. It's like a pistol shot.
No amplification needed. Do it on a hard wood floor, and definitely no
amplification needed.
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