songs about strong women
Cmaguire60
virgin, or traitors. Anybody know any?
Thanks
Christine Maguire
barry finn
(tune: traditional - Turkey Rhubarb)
Ida Lewis left Newport at the age of 15,
Moved onto Lime Light Rock in the 1850's
Her father was a captain, now keeper of the light
Soon the duties feel on Ida to keep the lamps burning bright.
Her sisters & brother she'd row to school every day
In a small open lifeboat across the rough bay
From his wheelchair her father would watch through the storms
In horror as Ida would row the children back home.
Renowned for her skills no matter the weather
At swimming or rowing no man was her better
At the age of 16 she had saved 4 men's lives
By the time she retired she had saved 25
There are saints on the water & demons in the sea
One & all they praised Ida for her great bravery
On the very night this women died, who had lived on the shoals
Every bell on every boat in Newport did toll
Now they've renamed that rock the Ida Lewis Rock Light
And in her honor today the lights are still burning bright
But sometimes at night when it's rough & it's cold
Some claim to see Ida pulling boys from the foam.
True story/song. See book by Mary & J. Clifford "Woman Who Kept The
Lights". BF
@sailor @rescue @ghost
filename[ IDALEWIS
BF
Apr98
Taken from the Mudcat Cafe (Digital Tradition)
Cmaguire60 <cmagu...@aol.comnoQjunkQ> wrote in article
<19990503231157...@ng-cc1.aol.com>...
Jeri Corlew
>I'm looking for tunes that feature strong women. Not sweethearts, mothers,
>virgin, or traitors. Anybody know any?
There's a whole genre of songs out there (although most are English of USian -
you might want to ask in rec.music.folk) about women who dressed up as men to
join the military and became heroes. Most of the time, they were supposed to be
following their true loves. While I won't argue that love inspires strength, I
think many women were motivated more by a need for personal accomplishment. I
can't think of any *correct* titles except "Jackie Monroe" at the moment.
History/no songs: http://www.gendergap.com/ or more specifically, at:
http://www.gendergap.com/military/Warriors-1.htm
A song in which the Capt get's the credit, but it's actually his wife who ends
the battle is Capt Coulson at:
http://www.mudcat.org/cgi-shl/as_web.exe?oct98+D+2114054
"The captain's wife she came on deck
Saying I'll soon end this strife
And with a pistol ball she took
The pirate captain's life"
I'm not sure if you're looking for old songs, new songs, or anything that fits.
In a lot of the older songs/ballad, there seems to be a lot of "oh, poor me"
going on. I keep wishing someone would alter "Blue Bleezin' Blind Drunk" to be
more along the lines of:
"I'll go and I'll pack up my clothing and things
And I will give Mickey no warning
My life isn't right, so I'll leave on this night
And I'll be in a safe place come morning"
--
Jeri Corlew
(Remove "XXX" to reply)
P.S. It's totally unrelated to this thread, but while messing about in
DigiTrad, I accidentally found "The Ballad of Lady Mondegreen," by David Albert
at http://www.mudcat.org/cgi-shl/as_web.exe?oct98+D+671165
amers
kicked out when a lady fell in love with her and she had to reveal the
truth. I always thought it was really funny. I think it's called "When I Was
a Young Maid" and can be found on her self-titled album (if memory serves me
correctly; a "friend" borrowed my album and I haven't seen it since :/)
-Amy
Fernetta
I sing a song shich seems to be a version (there are two sides to a story and
12 versions of a song)of this song. I call it THE DRUMMER GIRL. I think I got
it from a tape of a STEELEYE SPAN LP but it has been so long I don't remember
for sure.
I was brought up in Yorshire
and when I was sixteen
I ran away to London and a soldier I became
chorus
>
With me fine cap and feather
likwise me rattlin' drum
they learned me to play upon the ruba duba dum
with me gentle waist so slender
and me fingers strong and small
I could play upon the ruba dub the best of them all
So many were the victories we won among the French
and so boldly did I fight me boys although I'm but a wench
in buttonin' up me trousers so often I had ta smile
to think I lay with a thousand men and a maiden all the while
chorus
Well they never found my secret out until this very hour
when the sent me up to London to be sentry at the tower
when a young girl fell in love with me and she found I was a maid
then she went up to me officer and my secret she betrayed
chorus
He unbuttoned me red tunic and he saw that ist was true
It's a shame he said to loose a pretty drummer boy like you
So now it's off to be with me Mum and Dad at home
and along with me bold comerads no longer can I roam
chorus
I don't have a way to convey to tune but that hasn't stoped people in the
past.;)
Fernetta
~*~*~*~*~You know your a pipers wife when he sits in the car with his
arm around his pipes just like he used to do to you when you were
dating.~*~*~*~*~
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
amers
wouldn't be a bit surprised if the tune were the same as well.
-Amy
Kilmoulis
strength, intelligence, feistiness and ribaldry of the female in the songs of
the British Isles. The best thing would probably be to listen to any Steeleye
Span albums you can get, plus her other collaborations - notably with Joan
Madden.
Other good sources would be Janet Russell and Talitha Mackenzie - though the
latter sings predominantly in Scots gaelic.
Kilmoulis Celtic Band
Damien McCarron
http://www.shamrocker.com
Cmaguire60 wrote in message
<19990503231157...@ng-cc1.aol.com>...
>I'm looking for tunes that feature strong women. Not sweethearts, mothers,
>virgin, or traitors. Anybody know any?
>Thanks
>Christine Maguire
Alexander D. Mitchell IV
his Greentrax album "The Back o' the North Wind" (CDTRAX 047, 1991) about
Flora MacDonald, who hid Prince Charles from the British,
or
"William Taylor", another story of a lass who joins the Navy as a man to
find her loved one, only to find he's a two-timer, and he shoots him and
his lady. Done by Patrick Street, Deanta, and others; many minor
variations.
Or
on the current Battlefield Band release "Rain, Hail or Shine (Temple 2074,
1998), "Jenny o' the Braes", about an independent old spinster on the edge
of society (can be read many ways--I think it's an independent woman).
Alexander D. Mitchell IV
LNER...@gateway.net
W Richards
the point of view of his women and what would happen if she was a red head.
<G>
at
http://www.teleport.com/~seafire/lf.html
If you haven't heard her music it's pretty darn good IMHO
Genia Ainsworth
> on the current Battlefield Band release "Rain, Hail or Shine (Temple 2074, 1998), "Jenny o' the Braes", about an independent old spinster on the edge of society
Now there's a wonderful song, it really made me want to know more about
her.
Genia Ainsworth :-)
Claire K. Huang
motion for "Strong Women"; Sheena Wellington also sings it and in fact has an
album--her latest, I believe--of the same title.
For contemporary songs of unsurpassed quality, try any of Peggy Seeger's recent
albums. And many of the so-called "womyn's music" artists (Holly Near, Tret
Fure, etc) have near-entire albums filled with such content.
And on a more traditional note, how about "Sovay"? An interesting twist on the
highwayman tale.
Regards,
Claire H.
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
> How about "Strong Women Rule Us All With Their Tears", by Brian McNeill, on
> his Greentrax album "The Back o' the North Wind" (CDTRAX 047, 1991) about
> Flora MacDonald, who hid Prince Charles from the British,
>
> or
> "William Taylor", another story of a lass who joins the Navy as a man to
> find her loved one, only to find he's a two-timer, and he shoots him and
> his lady. Done by Patrick Street, Deanta, and others; many minor
> variations.
>
> Or
> on the current Battlefield Band release "Rain, Hail or Shine (Temple 2074,
> 1998), "Jenny o' the Braes", about an independent old spinster on the edge
gaelscoil
Richard L Walker
I can imagine a lady on her deathbed being strong-willed about a few
things -- and would be considered strong because of it. Physical
strength could be another take.
"Richard L Walker" <rlwa...@granis.net>
Pensacola, FL, USA
City of Five Flags
Cailín
She gets kidnapped by pirates, sings them to sleep, and steals all their
gold. You go girl!
Regards,
-Cailín
Fernetta wrote in message <7gpqqe$oh8$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
Eric Root
-Eric Root
"If there's anybody here who isn't trying to pick a fight, that's whose
side I'm on."
Janet M. Ryan
>
> How about "The Devil and the Farmer's Wife"?
>
Ah, now here's a wise man. The original poster gave us a rather
intruiging list of qualifications for a "strong woman" which I believe
excluded sweethearts and mothers, and virgins and traitors.
Hmmmm....so are we to presume strong women are none of the above?
Or was the original request made by a single, childless woman who ain't
seen the business side of lovin' (easy or hard), marriage or
childrearing? ;-)
Dunno if the person seeking the info was looking for folk/trad songs or
contemporary ones. There's millions of contemporary ones--the folk/trad
songs are a bit tougher to suss out. Or as Mairead Ni Mhaonaigh said at
an Altan gig, commenting on the paucity of women's songs that have
survived in printed collections, etc. "Apparently women weren't given
pens."
So perhaps the original poster, if he/she is looking for folk/trad songs
about or from the perspective of strong women, their paradigm needs to
shift a bit, in order to accomodate the reality of the music and the
society that gave birth to it (pardon my womanpun).
There are certain types of songs that were sung specifically *by* women,
which might not appear to be "strong" from our vantage point on the eve
of the new millenium. That's a good place to start, historically,
aestethically and creatively (i.e. if artists are looking to incorporate
older stuff into contemporary song).
In Scots tradition, a lot of the Gaelic material that survives is from
women's work song genres, like waulking songs, caoineadh (that's the
Irish spelling actually, I dunno if the Scots Gaelic spelling of the word
is the same or not, but it will be similar), lullabies, etc. Less of
that kind of music has survived in the Irish Gaelic song traditions, but
there are still a few.
In the Kennedy collection "Folksongs of Britain and Ireland," (which I
tend to use a lot because it has lots of material from Donegal), there is
an attempt to organize the songs into categories that do reflect
(although *very* ambiguously) different gender perspectives in the song
material. Gender differences are mentioned in the Introduction to the
section titled "Songs of Uneasy Wedlock." Kennedy says:
"Of the twenty-four songs in this chapter, fifteen are
voiced by men and nine are from the woman's point of
of view (thirteen recorded in England, six in Ireland,
four in Scotland and one in Wales). Of the men's songs,
four of them could also be classed as seduction songs,
but in this chapter their encounters are with unfaithful
married women. In these four songs the story is always
related from the husband's point of view and the women
always get caught...There are four "toil and strife"
songs complaining of married life by the husbands and
four of complaint by the wives..."
(It should be noted that the even number of "toil and strife" songs from
husbands' and wives' perspectives reflects editorial choice, which
shouldn't be miscontrued or conflated to mean that things were equal
between the sexes in folk music anymore than they were in real life.)
The "song type" classifications are usually arbitrarily chosen by the
collector/editor/album producer, and often don't reflect the ways the
people themselves classify the songs. For instance, Kennedy uses
classifications titled "songs of seduction"; "songs of false love and
true"; "songs of courtship"; "songs of seduction" etc. instead of terms
more normally used by the singers and their audiences, like "night
visiting songs"--that sort of thing.
You also can't go by the copyright date either. Just because you have a
collection (printed or recorded) of recent date, it doesn't mean the
approach to the material is more enlightened or evolved in regards to the
gender differences in the music. Kennedy's collection, which at least
makes a stab at looking at the gender distinctions in the music, was
published in the pre-current women's movement times of 1975. Much of the
current stuff from Ireland and the UK *still* doesn't take the gender
differences into accout, but rather sweeps the whole subject under the
rug and stands stubbornly on it with arms folded across chest, denying
there is anything under there. ;-)
Folklorists nowadays look at gender, class, religion, ethnicity, etc. as
a matter of course when studying "tradition." But it doesn't mean the
entire folk/trad music community has followed the trend. Its to
our own detriment though, because there is a whole other world of music,
really. Very powerful stuff. Which is, I suppose, what makes it so
dangerous in some people's minds, that they feel we shouldn't discuss it.
So if you're looking for stuff about strong women, Eric's suggestion is
an excellent one. Even the title tells you that--a farmer's wife *has*
to be strong, period. And any woman who battles the devil--well, talk
about yer dangerous women...
Janet Ryan
Eric Root
>Ah, now here's a wise man. The original poster gave us a rather
intruiging list of qualifications for a "strong woman" which I believe
excluded sweethearts and mothers, and virgins and traitors.
Hmmmm....so are we to presume strong women are none of the above?<
(much interesting stuff snipped, to be addressed in a moment)
Thank you very much for your kind words, Janet, although I think in my
case the wisdom is something that slips out because the foolishness has
to take a rest _sometime_. <6^)
With respect to the exclusions: yeah, that doesn't leave much. Other
posters have suggested songs about spinsters/single women, women
disguised as men, and I suggested one about a wife. The problem with
our modern sensibiities is that we might want songs about career women,
but as you go farther back in time, biology more and more becomes
destiny. If you also eliminate nuns/priestesses and whores, who is
left to write about? Okay, I just remembered, sisters. Any body else
left to sing about?
To take a different tack, what would be the equivalent to the
originally-posted question, if you replaced the word "women" with "men?"
What would your exclusions be? No warriors, no rakes, no bandits, what?
Anyway, there's lots of food for thought in your post, Janet.
Janet M. Ryan
> Anyway, there's lots of food for thought in your post, Janet.
>
Janet Ryan
Nigel & Nancy Sellars
>
>
> There's a whole genre of songs out there (although most are English of >USian -
Jeri is right. The English seem to have far more of this type of song
than do the Irish or the Scots. Can't say why.
Examples would be "Sovay," "Lovely Joan," "The Fair Maid's Proposal"
(where she cheats a man out of his horse by saying she wants what's
between his legs), "The Female Drummer," "William Taylor" (of which a
few Irish variants exist), "Georgie" ( as well as the different Scots
ballad "Geordie" with a very strong female protagonist), and "Polly's
Love" (likely the original of the American "Pretty Polly," only in the
English version she comes back as a ghost and tears Willie into pieces)
"Fair Maid of Ilsington," ( on June Tabor's _Aleyn_ album),
and "Tam Lin," especially if you've heard Frankie Armstrong's version.
In fact, I'd recommend Frankie's albums as they has many trad and
contemporary songs about strong women.
There are also a growing number of newly composed pieces from all three
countries about strong women.
Nigel Sellars
aerie
How about Maid of Fyvie-O -- that's a Scottish one about a chambermaid who
refuses to marry a soldier ("I never will marry a soldier-o, I never did
intend to go to a foreign land...") -- a pretty strong-minded woman, I'd
say!
Ann
Nigel & Nancy Sellars wrote in message <374174...@telepath.com>...
Nigel & Nancy Sellars
>
> How about Maid of Fyvie-O -- that's a Scottish one about a chambermaid who
> refuses to marry a soldier ("I never will marry a soldier-o, I never did
> intend to go to a foreign land...") -- a pretty strong-minded woman, I'd
> say!
>
> Ann
>
There's an English variant of that, too, which, given the structure of
the tune, may be older (or not) -- "Handsome Molly" (not to be confused
with the similarly titled American folksong) as sung by Martin Carthy on
his "Shearwater" album. On the other hand, the woman of "Maid of
Fyvie-O" seems to me to be cruel, not strong. However, the Irish "The
Bold Tenant Farmer" (misnamed) has a very strong woman in the tenant's
wife, whom the song is really about.
Nigel
Kevin Sheils
And also an American variant "Fenario", well I've always assumed it to
be American. IIRC, tt was recorded by Joan Baez on an early album.
--
Kevin Sheils
http://www.mrscasey.co.uk/ For Sidmouth/Towersey Festivals etc
Http://www.efdss.org/ For EFDSS, Cecil Sharp House etc
http://www.btinternet.com/~haleend For Waltham Forest Folk Events
aerie
already. Which songs have the same melody but are different songs with a
different name?
We've already mentioned a few. Here's another one to start us off --
Loch Lomand, from Scotland -- Red is the Rose, from Ireland.
Ann
Kevin Sheils wrote in message <3742E026...@btinternet.com>...
Fernetta
"Janet M. Ryan" <ryan...@tc.umn.edu> wrote:
> Ah, now here's a wise man. The original poster gave us a rather
> intruiging list of qualifications for a "strong woman" which I believe
> excluded sweethearts and mothers, and virgins and traitors.
>
> Hmmmm....so are we to presume strong women are none of the above?
As I have pondered this thread my mind has wandered along much the same
line. I consider myself a strong woman and have been all but one of the
above.
> Or was the original request made by a single, childless woman who
ain't
> seen the business side of lovin' (easy or hard), marriage or
> childrearing? ;-)
That was my opinion so I took it at face value. But with the Email I
have recieved since posting to this thread I think the poster was just
looking for some Eadd (spam) fodder.
> songs are a bit tougher to suss out. Or as Mairead Ni Mhaonaigh said
at
> an Altan gig, commenting on the paucity of women's songs that have
> survived in printed collections, etc. "Apparently women weren't given
> pens."
They didn't need them. They passed on the oral tradition to their
families and communities right up until Kennedy made his feild
recordings on his prototype portable tape recorder as he described in
his book. And by the way, one of the earliest collection of folk music
was made by a Lady.
> In Scots tradition, a lot of the Gaelic material that survives is from
> women's work song genres, like waulking songs, caoineadh (that's the
> Irish spelling actually, I dunno if the Scots Gaelic spelling of the
word
> is the same or not, but it will be similar),
Just say laments:)
> lullabies, etc.
As I have continued upon what I call my Celtic Oddesy of searching for
the ancient sound of my ancestors I have noticed that a good many of
these songs servive in every form and most were originated by women.
I believe it was in the Kennedy collection which you mention immediatly
here after that I read of an historian who said he didn't need to write
about a certain battle because "the women" had already made songs
describing it completely. The author also said, and I agree, that it is
too bad that we don't know which battle or what songs.
> In the Kennedy collection "Folksongs of Britain and Ireland,"
The best resource I have found since I live in mid-america and not in
any 'celtic rich' culture. But I use it because it has the best
collection of old scottish songs that I have seen.
> (It should be noted that the even number of "toil and strife" songs
from
> husbands' and wives' perspectives reflects editorial choice,
I don't think so.
which
> shouldn't be miscontrued or conflated to mean that things were equal
> between the sexes in folk music anymore than they were in real life.)
What a bunch of feminist popycock.
> The "song type" classifications are usually arbitrarily chosen by the
> collector/editor/album producer, and often don't reflect the ways the
> people themselves classify the songs. For instance, Kennedy uses
> classifications titled "songs of seduction"; "songs of false love and
> true"; "songs of courtship"; "songs of seduction" etc.
My,my. You are realy stuck on this 'seduction' thing;)
>instead of terms more normally used by the singers and their audiences,
>like "night
> visiting songs"--that sort of thing.
>
(snip)
> current stuff from Ireland and the UK *still* doesn't take the gender
> differences into accout, but rather sweeps the whole subject under the
> rug and stands stubbornly on it with arms folded across chest, denying
> there is anything under there. ;-)
That's because there isn't. You sing what ever makes the music and
poetry work.
> Folklorists nowadays look at gender, class, religion, ethnicity, etc.
as
> a matter of course when studying "tradition." But it doesn't mean the
> entire folk/trad music community has followed the trend. Its to
> our own detriment though, because there is a whole other world of
music,
> really. Very powerful stuff. Which is, I suppose, what makes it so
> dangerous in some people's minds, that they feel we shouldn't discuss
it.
Talitha MacKenzie's SPIORAD has some "powerful stuff".
> So if you're looking for stuff about strong women, Eric's suggestion
is
> an excellent one. Even the title tells you that--a farmer's wife
*has*
> to be strong, period. And any woman who battles the devil--well, talk
> about yer dangerous women...
>
> Janet Ryan
Yea, and try Get Up and Bar the Door (child 275).
Fernetta
You know you're a piper's wife if:
Band practice counts as a date.
--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
---Share what you know. Learn what you don't.---
Phil & Morgana Keast
wrote:
>You know, that would make an interesting thread, if it hasn't been one
>already. Which songs have the same melody but are different songs with a
>different name?
>
>We've already mentioned a few. Here's another one to start us off --
>
>Loch Lomand, from Scotland -- Red is the Rose, from Ireland.
"Greensleeves" and "What Child is This?"
Morgana
--------------------------------------------------------
Editor-In-Chief, Harp Strings - the Aust. Harp Journal
Secretary, & Regional Director (Australia & NZ) ISFHC
Master of Ceremonies, "Harper's Heath" Harping Circle
PO Box 467, Ashburton, Victoria, Australia 3147
** http://members.tripod.com/~CelticHarp/index.html **
61 3 98077 633 ke...@melb.alexia.net.au
"Strive for Beauty, Not Perfection"
--------------------------------------------------------
"Harp Strings - The Australian Harp Journal" Out Now!
--------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Sheils
>
> You know, that would make an interesting thread, if it hasn't been one
> already. Which songs have the same melody but are different songs with a
> different name?
>
> We've already mentioned a few. Here's another one to start us off --
>
> Loch Lomand, from Scotland -- Red is the Rose, from Ireland.
Although we were in fact discussing Fenario and Fyvie which are versions
of the same song rather than two songs with the same tune as with LL and
RITR.
Now this thread could go one forever if we start on all the songs with
the Star of The County Down/Dives and Lazarus tune family.
RJGra
Bob G.
Timothy Jaques
relation to each other. I assume we also include trad music to which
songwriters have put lyrics without attribution re the tune. (Ex. "Watching
The Apples Grow" by Stan Rogers, to the tune of The Cherokee Shuffle.) And
we exclude songs written within our time but with a tune based on a trade
tune (Ex. "Fiddlers' Green" and "Dark-Eyed Sailor".)
So I submit the first two which come to mind:
"Room For Company" and "Hunting The Hare."
"O' A' The Airts the Wind Can Blaw" and "Scarborough Settler's Lament".
Then of course there are songs which have the same name, but are
unconnected, such as the three different songs called The Banks of
Newfoundland . . .
--
________________
Timothy Jaques tja...@netcom.ca
Windsor, Ontario, Canada
"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made." (J. Danforth Quayle)
RJGra wrote in message <19990522232433...@ng39.aol.com>...