bouzouki
perk...@math.uio.no
taking up one of the bouzouki-like instruments. Could someone describe
the range of instruments (bouzouki, cittern, mando-cello, various numbers
of strings, etc.) and give an opinion on which they prefer? I am
interested in something with a rather big sound so that I can play
counter-melodies along with the fiddle and other instruments rather than
just strumming.
Who makes the nicest instruments and where should I look for one? I
will be in Ireland this summer and could maybe find something there, or I
could wait until I am back in the States and order one from one of the big
mail-order places.
Thanks,
David
e-mail: perk...@math.uio.no
bsa...@trentu.ca
> I play Irish music on the fiddle and guitar and am interested in
>taking up one of the bouzouki-like instruments. Could someone describe
>David
>
>e-mail: perk...@math.uio.no
Dear David, I play the mandolin, but until recently I was in a local celtic
band with a bouzouki-player. Indeed the bouzouki was a nice instrument. It
possessed enough bassiness to provide chording behind melodies all on its own.
It's not as bassy as a guitar, though, and quite a bit more twangy sounding. I
gathered that there where two ways to string this instrument. The strings
occur in four sets of two (eight strings in total) and could either be strung
in sets of two strings of identical thickness, or in sets where one string was
of normal thickness while its pair was a thinner string. The thick/thin
pairing of strings resulted in a more cittern/lute like sound while the pairing
of thick/thick string resulted in a louder, more bassy sound which was closer
to that of a guitar (but would never be mistaken for a guitar) - it sounded
more like a bassy mandolin (which is of course what it is in a way).
As far as the cittern goes. It has ten strings - five sets of two. I
think that this instrument is not as long as a bouzouki. Personally, I am
attracted to the cittern rather than the bouzouki for several reasons: The
extra set of strings makes it sound fuller. It possesses a different
characteristic tone which is more resonand - medieval sounding. Also, there is
really no single set standard for tuning the cittern, although there are
several common tunings. I imagine that this means you could tune a cittern
according to one of these more commonly accepted tunings, or you could go ahead
and tune it like a guitar or a bouzouki! You seem to get sort of the best of
both worlds from a cittern - but then again I don't play one, I've only seen
and read about them.
Anyway, good luck in choosing - Brent Santin - bsa...@trentu.ca
Ontario, Canada
Jon Berger
> I play Irish music on the fiddle and guitar and am interested in
> taking up one of the bouzouki-like instruments. Could someone describe
> the range of instruments (bouzouki, cittern, mando-cello, various numbers
> of strings, etc.) and give an opinion on which they prefer?
The general characteristic that all of these instruments share is that
they're strung in double courses (like the mandolin) and that they're
bigger than a mandolin. At that point, things become kind of muddled.
Back in the 1960's or thereabouts, some combination of Johnny Moynihan
and Andy Irvine started using bouzoukis in Irish music. These were real
Greek bouzoukis, which look like oversize long-necked round-back mandolins
with little skinny necks. I believe that, even back then, they tuned them
octave-mandolin style, which is not how they're tuned by Greek players,
but they were still the genuine article. Pretty soon, though, everyone
figured out that these gadgets would be a lot easier to play if they
were flat-backed, and had wider fretboards, and perhaps slightly shorter
scale lengths, and a bunch of other modifications. The result of all
these changes was the class of instruments you're talking about, and
they continued to be called "bouzoukis" long after any resemblance to
what's called by that name in Greece had vanished. So then people started
coming up with other names for them, which is why we now have citterns
and octave mandolins and things like that. The point of all this is that
there's really no standard relationship between the instrument's name and
its characteristics. If something is a "guitar", for example, you're
pretty justified in assuming that it will have six strings and a kind of
hourglass shape, but if something is a "cittern", you can't really make
any assumptions except that it's pretty likely it will be strung in double
courses.
What you need to do is to figure out what kind of instrument you like, and
it's really hard to give advice about that. Basically, the parameters
are the number of courses, the scale length, and the size of the body.
Four-course instruments are most generally tuned G-D-A-E (an octave
below a mandolin or fiddle), or G-D-A-D or some fairly nearby variant.
Five-course instruments are generally tuned C-G-D-A-E or D-G-D-A-E or
something close to that; the low bass course can provide a nice rich
bottom end to the tone, which is especially nice when you're playing
accompaniments, but it can also drive you into a state of complete
confusion if you're a mandolin or fiddle player, and used to dealing
with four strings at a time. (Believe me, I speak from experience
on this one.) A longer scale length will generally correlate with
a fuller, richer bass sound -- achieving lower notes with a shorter
scale length involves making the strings heavier and looser, both of
which contribute to muffly tone -- but a longer scale may also make the
instrument impossible to play if you have stubby little fingers like some
of us. And the body size is really just a matter of taste; really, you
just have to play around with a lot of instruments and see what you like.
> I am interested in something with a rather big sound so that I can play
> counter-melodies along with the fiddle and other instruments rather than
> just strumming.
Based on that, and based on your background playing mandolin, I'd guess
that you want a four-course, probably a big hefty four-course.
> Who makes the nicest instruments and where should I look for one?
Well, Stefan Sobell, from Northumberland, used to be the virtually
unchallenged leader in the field. I've craved one of his instruments for
years and years, but never quite had the kind of disposable income that's
required. About Sobell: this is strictly hearsay, and I haven't seen any
evidence of it myself, but I've been told that his newer instruments, say
from the last three or four years, are noticeably lower in quality than
the older ones. This could just be a case of the "everything modern is
garbage" syndrome that seems to infest the folk-music community, or it
could be perfectly true; I just don't know. Take it for what it's worth.
Also, there's a luthier in England named Andy Manson who makes very nice
octave mandolins. I don't know a darn thing about him except that one of
the guys in my band plays one of his instruments, and it's really nice,
easily comparable to a Sobell, and (I'm told) quite a bit cheaper. The
guy, Lief Sorbye (another Norwegian!) claims to be the U.S. representative
for Manson, so if anyone wants any more information about his products,
get in touch by email and I'll put you in touch with Lief.
Speaking of disposable income, and Sobells, one of the things you need
to consider in choosing an instrument is how much you're willing to pay,
and how long you're willing to wait for it. (Ok, two of the things.
_Nobody_ expects the Spanish Inquisition!) You can probably expect to pay
upwards of $2000 for a custom-made instrument, and many makers, including
Sobell, have something like a nine-month waiting list. On the other
hand, a custom instrument will almost invariably be LOTS nicer than a
factory-made one of the shelf of some music store. On the other other
hand, you're just starting out with the instrument, so maybe you'd like to
get your hands on one today and start seeing how you like it, so maybe a
factory one would be worth considering. I'm not sure what's available in
Norway, but in the U.S. the Trinity College and Flatiron brands are widely
available, and they're not bad at all, considering.
--
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-__ __ /_ Jon Berger "If you push something hard enough,
//_// //_/ jo...@netcom.com it will fall over."
_/ --------- - Fudd's First Law of Opposition
Pete Young
[in response to a request for information on bouzoukis]
: > I am interested in something with a rather big sound so that I can play
: > counter-melodies along with the fiddle and other instruments rather than
: > just strumming.
: Based on that, and based on your background playing mandolin, I'd guess
: that you want a four-course, probably a big hefty four-course.
Based on my experience with bouzoukis, I'd suggest you want something
with a shorter scale length than most bouzoukis have. I'd call this
an octave mandola, but I don't want to be accused of splitting hairs.
I find it is very difficult to stretch up to a top `b' in octave
mandolin tuning. G-D-A-D is really for accompaniment, although some
tunes can be played with relative ease.
: > Who makes the nicest instruments and where should I look for one?
: Also, there's a luthier in England named Andy Manson who makes very nice
: octave mandolins.
Andy Manson can also make bouzouki-scale instruments. I've seen a couple,
including the first one he ever made, and they are superb quality
instruments. Andy used to be based in Crowborough in Sussex, but that was
many years ago and he may well have moved.
I have a bouzouki made by Paul Doyle, who is now based in Galway.
I find it to be a good quality instrument with a good sound, but I'm
biased! If you want an instrument from Doyle, you would
be well advised to order it now and you might get it in 6 months time.
Something else you might consider is the Fylde `bouzouki'. It has a
shorter scale length than a bouzouki and is a reasonable compromise
between the quality of a hand-made instrument and the price of a
factory made one. Shouldn't be too hard to find a second-hand
one of these.
Finally, you could consider a greek bouzouki. Although most players
use a 4-course instrument, Alec Finn of De Danann plays a greek
3-course instrument (tuned D-A-D).
____________________________________________________________________
Pete Young pyo...@srd.bt.co.uk Phone +44 473 640885
"Just another crouton, floating on the bouillabaisse of life"
Gregory Bramhall
>> [in response to a request for information on bouzoukis]
>>: > I am interested in something with a rather big sound so that I can play
>>: > counter-melodies along with the fiddle and other instruments rather than
>>: > just strumming.
>>: Based on that, and based on your background playing mandolin, I'd guess
>>: that you want a four-course, probably a big hefty four-course.
>>Based on my experience with bouzoukis, I'd suggest you want something
>>with a shorter scale length than most bouzoukis have. I'd call this
>>an octave mandola, but I don't want to be accused of splitting hairs.
>>I find it is very difficult to stretch up to a top `b' in octave
>>mandolin tuning. G-D-A-D is really for accompaniment, although some
>>tunes can be played with relative ease.
Although the GDAD tuning works quite well for chords and accompaniment,
playing tunes, in the keys of G and D anyway, goes quite well because of the
open Ds and Gs. You have many opporunities for integrating drones into your
tunes. Ithink it's a distictive sound. The point about stretching for the high
B is well taken, but from 2nd position it's not bad.
Greg Bramhall
***************************************************************************
Symmetrix, Inc Lexington, MA 02173
***************************************************************************
sj60...@auvax1.adelphi.edu
E-mail me with your question and i will see how I amy help you- I sell celtic
musical instruments, and i can e-mail you a catalogue, if you send me mail (it doesn't always work for me to send mail directly to you).
Good Luck!
Stuart Joseph
Celtic Cultures
25-72 36th Street
L.I.C., NY 11103 USA
(718) 956-3019
Internet: sj60...@auvax1.adelphi.edu
Arthur Edelstein
I played a Flatiron octave mandolin for a while but the heavy string gauges
almost zapped my left hand. I've played a greek bouzouki and with the round
back and long scale that too is a bitch. Last summer I was in Ireland and
managed to stop at Joe Foley's outside Dublin. He had one bouzouki finished and
just looking at it I knew it was the instrument for meThis particular
makeer uses guitar tuners and and guitar strings. Irish walnut back and
sides, mahogany neck and cedar top. the sound is exquisite not growling
like the Flat Iron but a bit more subtle than the Sobells which are very
pricy if you can find one. The scale is somewhat long but I keep it in
mandolin tuning, and have learned to hit that high B note. There are great
chords in this tuning and nice warm tones. Email me if you want Foley's
but will build on order and I don't
think you'll wait too many months. His price with case is much lower than
you'd think. good luck in your quest.
Art