help with tinwhistle
Jeff Harrison
jb...@pitbull.cornell.edu (Jean B. Hunter) wrote:
> The Susato is in
> tune but has an odd plastic sound.
???? Plastic sound???? Sorry, but I'm putting in my vote for this being
the best whistle that you currently own. I'd give it another try. It's a
powerhouse sound-wise and is VERY in tune. I only have a paltry twelve or
so whistles and it's by far my favourite although I love my Clarke for
airs. Ain't got me-self one of them thar fancy ole Copelands. Yet. :)
Have you tried a Clarke Sweetone? It may sidestep all the thing you don't
like about the whistles in your current collection.
Jeff
Jean B. Hunter
I've been trying to teach myself tinwhistle, enough to join the
local Irish session band. After several months of practice I've
got the fingerings and ornaments down, and am picking up speed
nicely, but my intonation and tone quality are deplorable. When I
was just starting, I read that tone quality is far more a function
of the player than the instrument, but I'm beginning to doubt it.
I can't figure out if the problem is the whistle, the musician,
or the music critic who was brought up on classical music and
classical performance standards. I'm reluctant to go to the
session players for help, as they gave the impression that they
didn't want to waste time on beginners.
I have three ordinary D whistles: an Oak which was too slippery
to hold on to until I put Scotch :-) tape on the underside; a
Clarke with a loose fipple and a tunable Susato plastic whistle.
(Also a lovely pearwood Hohner soprano recorder which clearly
brings out the Baroque character of O'Carolan compositions)
The Clarke has a very breathy tone and takes an enormous amount of
wind to play, no matter where I position the fipple. The Oak has a
nice round tone in the lower octave, though the upper half of the
lower scale sounds flat. The upper register is terrible; a lower
octave harmonic sounds below each note above E in the upper register.
It's there whether I play loud or soft. It fades somewhat when
the whistle is warm but never quite goes away. The Susato is in
tune but has an odd plastic sound. The session guys play beat-up
old Generation whistles, but I tried out several Generation D's in
the local music store and was not impressed with any of them.
So far the Oak is the best of the bunch.
Another problem with tone quality concerns the end of a note. On
piano and strings, it's easy to change the way the end of a note
sounds (e.g. on strings you can stop the bow faster or slower, or
lift it and let the note fade...) I can't seem to control the
way note-ends sound on the whistle. They are always choppy and
abrupt. Not a problem for fast dance tunes, but important on
slow airs. And vibrato on sustained notes: is the better method
a diaphragm vibrato as on the recorder, or fanning the air above an
open hole with a finger?
Is there some sort of fix I can do on the Oak to improve
the tuning and get rid of the harmonic in the upper register?
Do I need to order an expensive mail-order whistle that I can't
even handle or play before I own it? Do I need to take a metal
shop course and start building my own? Or is it just a matter of
developing better breath control and lung capacity?
Advice please...
Many thanks,
Jean in Ithaca
--
Jean Hunter, Ithaca, NY,
USA, Earth, Universe, the Mind of God
Please delete the "pitbull" spam guard dog
in my e-mail address before replying. Thanks!
Joseph Goodwin
Jean B. Hunter wrote in message ...
>Hi folks,
>I can't figure out if the problem is the whistle, the musician,
>or the music critic who was brought up on classical music and
>classical performance standards
You may want to consider trying other whistles. I do not own an Oak, but I
do own the other two you mentioned (Susato and Clarke). Two others I
recommend are the Clarke Sweetone and the Waltons Mello D. The Sweetone has
a "purer" sound than the regular Clarke, but is remarkably easy to control.
The Mello D has a more "rugged" sound to it but sustains more volume.
If you prefer the breathy sound of the Clarke, you may want to check out a
Shaw. It is also a wood-block fipple with conical tubing, but the
construction quality is much better.
Nigel Gatherer
>
> Have you tried a Clarke Sweetone? It may sidestep all the thing you don't
> like about the whistles in your current collection.
Someone bought me a Sweetone, as I would probably never have bought one
myself. One look at these gaily-coloured trinkets had convinced me it was a
commercial gimmick, not for an experienced whistler such as myself! However,
it quickly became my favourite, the mellow tone winning my heart. It's aptly
named, IMO.
Jean Hunter in Ithaca wrote:
>
> I tried out several Generation D's in the local music store and was not
> impressed with any of them.
I have found that these instruments need to mature. Often a brand new
Generation will sound harsh, but time mellows them. Possibly the reason I
took to Sweetones was that they didn't appear to need this 'breaking in'.
Jean went on:
> ...I can't seem to control the way note-ends sound on the whistle. They
> are always choppy and abrupt.
I know ™ it can be a problem. Sometimes I let air out of my nose as well as
through the whistle, which fades it slightly. I don't know what the answer
is.
> And vibrato on sustained notes: is the better method a diaphragm vibrato
> as on the recorder, or fanning the air above an open hole with a finger?
I personally use a diaphragm vibrato, but almost everyone else I've observed
uses a fanning of an open hole. It could be down to personal preference,
unless anyone else has a strong opinion?
> Do I need to order an expensive mail-order whistle that I can't even
> handle or play before I own it? Do I need to take a metal shop course and
> start building my own?
IMHO, you don't need to spend a pile of money on a whistle. Try the Sweetone
for starters (Clarke's Whistles have a website), or buy a couple of
Generations with a view to investing a bit of time in them. Let us know how
you get on.
--
_ _ _ _
| \| (_)__ _ ___| |
| .` | / _` / -_) | Nigel Gatherer
|_|\_|_\__, \___|_| gath...@argonet.co.uk
|___/
Patrick O. Young
Sounds like you've put some effort into the research of tinwhistles. I also like to put Scotch '^b tape on some of the larger bore whistles, but sometimes I find it gets in the way on the smaller ones. Might try some of that no slip wax for the thumbs.
I own two Copelands (D & C)(takes a LOOOONNNNG time to get them), and while I like the tones he has created for the whistles, the head gets clogged frequently. If I don't warm them up in the old armpit first, I've had several performances using them where I got clogged up. Not fun.
There's a whole study done on resonance and the type of material used to make flutes and whistles, and it comes down to technique more than anything else. For performances, I really like the Susatos, and they don't have to sound plastic if you work with them, just as copper and nickel tubes might sound like pipes when you first start out.
I agree with you about Generations. There's a certain secondary high pitch whistling I just can't get rid of, and I hear it with other whistle players as well. Maybe I'm part dog (I'm often in the dog house). :-)
I like Soodlums better, and I wish I could get the old style of Feadog, but they may not make those anymore. Mike Copeland's design for the Sweetones has been a real success, in my opinion, eventhough they look like toys. I wish they'd make them brass or silver (hint, hint).
At some time in every six-hole flute and whistle player's life, he or she will get the urge to make a homemade version. Actually, this is not only possible, but in a lot of cases, these personal "handcrafted" versions play far better than the "commercial" versions. Rick Miller makes a variety of handcrafted flutes and whistles, and I focus on making a low-D flute (side-blown six-hole whistle). However, I would not recommend you start with any low octave flute until you get REEEEEALLLLLY comfortable with mid-range flutes and whistles.
I guess everybody has their own style, and there are about as many ways to play "traditional" Celtic tunes as there are musicians to play them. That's what makes it fun.
Patrick O. Young
FOUR WINDS
Association of the Celtic Flute
http://www.ticnet.com/fourwinds
kenneth wilson
(Jean B. Hunter) wrote:
>The Susato is in
>tune but has an odd plastic sound.
>my vote for this being the best whistle that you
>currently own. I'd give it another try. It's a
>powerhouse sound-wise and is VERY in tune. >I
>only have a paltry twelve or so whistles and it's
>by far my favourite although I love my Clarke >for
>airs. Ain't got me-self one of them thar fancy >ole
>Copelands. Yet. :)
>sidestep all the thing you don't like about the
>whistles in your current collection.
I agree,Jeff,that the susato whistle is the best one owned but the
whistle does have a sound that could be described as "plastic". I
recently obtained a "thin weasel" whistle made by G.Schultz. The
whistle,like the susato, is in wonderful tune. Also,the whistle is made
from durable pvc. The only drawback is it's pricey at around $55-66
dollars. Best Wishes,Ken
Jeff Harrison
<jgoo...@theshop.net> wrote:
> If you prefer the breathy sound of the Clarke, you may want to check out a
> Shaw. It is also a wood-block fipple with conical tubing, but the
> construction quality is much better.
That's not ALWAYS true. I bought a Shaw and it's a pile dung in the
construction department. NEVER buy a Shaw sight unseen without a good
return policy! I'll trade anyone my Shaw for Clake D. No tradebacks. :)
Jeff
Steven Harris
octave sounds terrible, I don't know how they can keep selling them.
I have an loved my little black whistle made by Walton but they
have recently put out a new whistle which I think sounds great. It is
called a Mellow D whislte also by Walton, it has the same diamter as their
C whistle and is therefore shorter than most D whistles. I believe it
is the wider diameter that gives it such a nice tone. It plays real easy.
It costs a whopping $7!!
Steve
pdraper
Nigel Gatherer wrote in message ...
>Jean Hunter in Ithaca wrote:
.
>
>> And vibrato on sustained notes: is the better method a diaphragm vibrato
>> as on the recorder, or fanning the air above an open hole with a finger?
>
>I personally use a diaphragm vibrato, but almost everyone else I've
observed
>uses a fanning of an open hole. It could be down to personal preference,
>unless anyone else has a strong opinion?
Have you tried making the vibrato in your mouth or throat eg by humming?
There's some good effects to be tried out there.
Paul Draper
pdr...@baig.co.uk
0171 369 2754
me...@skyway.usask.ca
big diam. , I assume this is the "mellow D") -- I was told it was like
a Soodlum - but I bought it because it said Walton's (see below). I
had to extend the bottom with a piece of electrical tape before it
was anywhere near in tune.
Anyway I have 2 Walton's little black whistles - one I use *all* the
time, and the second I got because of the first, but it's unplayable
(badly tuned) - haven't tried to figure out why.
The tone of the Soodlum/Walton's has nowhere near the "presence"
of the little black whistle. I will probably give it to someone ...
-- but maybe the next one I buy would be better .. who knows.
So, what does this all add up to ..... nothing.
chris
me...@skyway.usask.ca
>In article <jbh5-26089...@cu-dialup-2221.cit.cornell.edu>,
>
>> The Susato is in
>> tune but has an odd plastic sound.
>
>???? Plastic sound???? Sorry, but I'm putting in my vote for this being
>the best whistle that you currently own. I'd give it another try. It's a
I have a Susato A -- I agree it has a "plastic" tone ...
but it's cheap (and in tune, and tunable) !
chris
Bill Reeder
> I was not impressed with my latest Walton's (bronze body, green top,
>big diam. , I assume this is the "mellow D") -- I was told it was like
>a Soodlum - but I bought it because it said Walton's (see below). I
>had to extend the bottom with a piece of electrical tape before it
>was anywhere near in tune.
>Anyway I have 2 Walton's little black whistles - one I use *all* the
>time, and the second I got because of the first, but it's unplayable
>(badly tuned) - haven't tried to figure out why.
> The tone of the Soodlum/Walton's has nowhere near the "presence"
>of the little black whistle. I will probably give it to someone ...
>-- but maybe the next one I buy would be better .. who knows.
> So, what does this all add up to ..... nothing.
I recently gave a whistle workshop (I worked real cheap - Conrad would
be proud of me) and most of the participants showed up with Walton
brass whistles. I was really disappointed with the quality of them.
I thought they had very poor intonation. I haven't shopped for
whistles in years and have really lost touch with what's available for
whistle players these days.
Bill Reeder
Ft. Wayne, Indiana
U. pipes, fiddle,flute, etc.
Michael Hayman
> I agree with you about Generations. There's a certain secondary high
> pitch whistling I just can't get rid of, and I hear it with other
> whistle players as well. Maybe I'm part dog (I'm often in the dog
> house). :-)
>
My dog and cats forced me to end my study of the tin whistle. The dog
would commence howling and the cats would jump in my lap and bat at the
infernal thing every time I attempted to practice. Now I am a
silversmith, thank you very much...
--
Michael Hayman
Celtic and Medieval Jeweler
http://haymancelticjewelry.com
Steve
<jeffhrsn-250...@anx-arl1083.deltanet.com>...
> In article <jbh5-26089...@cu-dialup-2221.cit.cornell.edu>,
> jb...@pitbull.cornell.edu (Jean B. Hunter) wrote:
>
> > The Susato is in
> > tune but has an odd plastic sound.
>
> ???? Plastic sound???? Sorry, but I'm putting in my vote for this being
> the best whistle that you currently own. I'd give it another try. It's a
> so whistles and it's by far my favourite although I love my Clarke for
> airs. Ain't got me-self one of them thar fancy ole Copelands. Yet. :)
I agree, the Susato is the crispest, clearest most precise whistle I have
ever played. An Original Clarke in my opinion is a piece of shit though, I
worked on mine for about an hour re-shaping the lip and now it's finally in
playable condition. You'd think they would have figured out how to make
their product slightly better after 100 years or so they have been around.
I also have some low PVC whistles I made myself, their lip is curved as
well, they sound awesome. It must have something to do with the curved lip
that makes them very crisp and clear.
And you have to remember, the session players were beginners once too, so
if they give you shit about such minor things point out to them that
Joannie Madden was once as good as you, and there's nothing but practice
in-between your current levels.
-Steve
Nigel Gatherer
>
> ...An Original Clarke in my opinion is a piece of shit though...You'd
> think they would have figured out how to make their product slightly
I have to say that I've got a couple of old original black Clarke tin
whistles (in C) and they have a beautiful sound. I couldn't ask for a better
product. However, one thing that seems to be emerging from this thread is
the lack of consistency when buying new whistles. I still maintain that tin
whistles mature with age (and playing), but you have to be somewhat happy
with the sound at the outset.
I've not tried a Susato, but the recommendations from this NG may tempt me
one day. Clarke's Sweetone gets my vote (again).
Lawrence E Mallette
: I've not tried a Susato, but the recommendations from this NG may tempt me
: one day. Clarke's Sweetone gets my vote (again).
(The following is just MHO and YMMV)
You should probably have a Susato in your possession,
as a weapon, if for no other reason. Carrying a concealed
weapon is now legal in many states. Don't know about the
permit process for whistled, however.
The point:
They are so loud as to endanger hearing. They also have
an irritating tonal quality, to my ear. They _are_ in
tune, but if you go deaf from practicing on one, you'll
never hear it. The design of the plastic mouthpiece is
the cause of the loudness. I've a bamboo whistle with
a Susato mouthpiece, and its also too loud and has the
irritating set of overtones.
By far the best medium price whistle, to my ear, is the
Water Weasel by Glenn A. Schlutz. His Thin Weasel
whistles are all of hardwood and around $200, but
of the best quality. The Water Weasels (PVC) are a
good alternative, and you can take them canoeing.
For whistles under $10, its all personal preference
and the luck of the draw. QC is not very good for
whistles in this price range.
Another interesting point is that one should listen
to another person playing the whistle before
deciding about whether it's right for you. It
may sound much better (or worse) when you're
not sitting behind it. Example: I wasn't impressed
with the Feadog brand until I heard a friend
playing his. Then I realized it has a nice tone.
A bit of reshaping the holes can bring one
into good internal intonation, so it's the
tonal quality that makes the difference.
Allen Garvin
I like Soodlums better, and I wish I could get the old style of
Feadog, but they may not make those anymore. Mike Copeland's
design for the Sweetones has been a real success, in my opinion,
eventhough they look like toys. I wish they'd make them brass or
silver (hint, hint).
I could SWEAR I saw some silver-colored (not painted) last march at a stand
at the North Texas Irish festival... but maybe I was mistaken, as I haven't
found any since. Otherwise, I love both my C and D sweetones... they're
just by far the most fun to play, with good internal tuning, maybe a little
weak on the C-natural (Bb on the C whistle). It's kind of annoys me that
the holes are smaller than on other whistles (like generations), making it
more difficult to half-hole or slide from one note to another. My Susato D
is by far the best tuned of my bunch of whistles, capable of a number of
accidentals by playing across holes (like a perfect G# on xxo xoo). But
it's SOOO loud it makes my eardrums hurt as well as annoying other people
I play with.
--
Allen Garvin I think I'll
--------------------------------------------- Let the mystery be
eare...@faeryland.tamu-commerce.edu
http://faeryland.tamu-commerce.edu/~earendil Iris Dement
BREWERPAUL
>at the North Texas Irish festival.
I saw some of these at Old Songs in June.
Why not strip your own? I took the mouthpiece off my C and stripped the paint
with commercial stripper (pretty tough paint).
Looks MUCH better now! Paul Troy NY
**************************************************************************
************************
The wind blows hard among the pines
toward the beginning
of an endless past.
Listen:you've heard everything. Shinkichi Takahashi
GSC Conference
The perfect whistle has yet to be made. I have a dozen
or so cheapies, a few expensive ones and a couple of mid
priced ones. I've also tried quite a few others. These
days, my favourite is a modified Generation (drilled out
the tone holes a bit)--it sounds the most traditional,
has reasonably good tone (after modification), and
it's cheap.
The expensive ones have squawking/shrill problems in
the upper range but are generally cleaner in tone,
intonation is better, and overall much louder.
If you decide to continue with the Oak, my suggestion
is to play softer in the lower octave. The problem
with sessions is whistle players can't hear themselves
so they blow harder which throws it out of tune
with itself even more.
All whistles are meant to be played with a certain
breath pressure for it to stay in tune and have good
tone. Outside of this range it sounds awful.
=chow
Jean B. Hunter (jb...@pitbull.cornell.edu) wrote:
: Hi folks,
:
: I've been trying to teach myself tinwhistle, enough to join the
: local Irish session band. After several months of practice I've
: got the fingerings and ornaments down, and am picking up speed
: nicely, but my intonation and tone quality are deplorable. When I
: was just starting, I read that tone quality is far more a function
: of the player than the instrument, but I'm beginning to doubt it.
: I can't figure out if the problem is the whistle, the musician,
: or the music critic who was brought up on classical music and
: classical performance standards. I'm reluctant to go to the
: session players for help, as they gave the impression that they
: didn't want to waste time on beginners.
:
: I have three ordinary D whistles: an Oak which was too slippery
: to hold on to until I put Scotch :-) tape on the underside; a
: Clarke with a loose fipple and a tunable Susato plastic whistle.
: (Also a lovely pearwood Hohner soprano recorder which clearly
: brings out the Baroque character of O'Carolan compositions)
:
: The Clarke has a very breathy tone and takes an enormous amount of
: wind to play, no matter where I position the fipple. The Oak has a
: nice round tone in the lower octave, though the upper half of the
: lower scale sounds flat. The upper register is terrible; a lower
: octave harmonic sounds below each note above E in the upper register.
: It's there whether I play loud or soft. It fades somewhat when
: the whistle is warm but never quite goes away. The Susato is in
: tune but has an odd plastic sound. The session guys play beat-up
: old Generation whistles, but I tried out several Generation D's in
: the local music store and was not impressed with any of them.
: So far the Oak is the best of the bunch.
:
: Another problem with tone quality concerns the end of a note. On
: piano and strings, it's easy to change the way the end of a note
: sounds (e.g. on strings you can stop the bow faster or slower, or
: lift it and let the note fade...) I can't seem to control the
: way note-ends sound on the whistle. They are always choppy and
: abrupt. Not a problem for fast dance tunes, but important on
: slow airs. And vibrato on sustained notes: is the better method
: a diaphragm vibrato as on the recorder, or fanning the air above an
: open hole with a finger?
:
: Is there some sort of fix I can do on the Oak to improve
: the tuning and get rid of the harmonic in the upper register?
: Do I need to order an expensive mail-order whistle that I can't
: even handle or play before I own it? Do I need to take a metal
: shop course and start building my own? Or is it just a matter of
Steve
sometimes makes the thing go slightly sharp depending on the wall
thickness. Also painting whistles I have learned makes them go a little
flat.
BREWERPAUL <brewe...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199808271737...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Jean B. Hunter
I did try out the Susato again, and remembered another
problem with it -- it's hard to transition between the
lower and upper registers, something that the Oak and
Clarke do effortlessly. On the Susato, it helps to leave
the hole nearest the mouthpiece open by just a crack.
Tried it on the Oak, but it didn't work to eliminate the
lower harmonic.
I'll try out the Clarke Sweetone and the Waltons Mello D
and little black when I next see them. I'll also fiddle
around some more with the Clarke. Maybe if I get more of
a knife edge on the bit of metal that looks like a reed,
it will improve the tone and cut down the wind requirement.
It sounds like many of you routinely modify your whistles
to get the sound you want.
Why would a whistle have to mature to sound better? I
can accept this for a wooden instrument, but it sounds odd
for a plastic and metal instrument. On the other hand,
I didn't notice any lower harmonic on the Oak's upper
register when I first bought it.
Many thanks,
Jean in Ithaca
--
Jean B. Hunter, Ithaca, NY, US, Earth,
Universe, the Mind of God
Please delete the "pitbull" antispam guard dog
from my address when replying by e-mail. Thanks!
dt king
> Patrick O. Young <p-yo...@ti.com> wrote:
>
> I like Soodlums better, and I wish I could get the old style of
> Feadog, but they may not make those anymore. Mike Copeland's
> design for the Sweetones has been a real success, in my opinion,
> eventhough they look like toys. I wish they'd make them brass or
> silver (hint, hint).
>
>found any since.
I have a silver Sweetone D I bought at Woodstock this summer. I usually
play my blue one, though.
dtk
dt king
>can accept this for a wooden instrument, but it sounds odd
>for a plastic and metal instrument. On the other hand,
>I didn't notice any lower harmonic on the Oak's upper
>register when I first bought it.
The insides get coated with a bit of fatty goo that get blown in a molecule
at a time when you're playing. You also unconsciously adjust the way you
deal with the idiosyncrasies of individual whistles over time. Materials
expand and contract. The planets change their alignments.
dtk
Mike Miller
> >I could SWEAR I saw some silver-colored (not painted) last march at a
> stand
> >at the North Texas Irish festival.
>
> I saw some of these at Old Songs in June.
> Why not strip your own? I took the mouthpiece off my C and stripped
> the paint
> with commercial stripper (pretty tough paint).
> Looks MUCH better now! Paul Troy NY
I just bought a Sweetone C at the Monticello gift shop in
Charlottesville VA for $6. It sounds good, has a black plastic fipple
and is silver-colored. THey had them in D also. I have a Generations
Folk D, which has a green fipple and is brass, and definitely has
another higher tone when you play in the low octave. I also have a
Ralph Cook low D, which is pretty cool, and has a good mellow sound,
although I am just a beginner with it. I find that it seems to get
stopped up by condensation fairly often, but then that may be because I
am a novice or something.
Mike Miller
dt king
>
>I just bought a Sweetone C at the Monticello gift shop in
>Charlottesville VA for $6. It sounds good, has a black plastic fipple
>and is silver-colored. THey had them in D also. I have a Generations
>Folk D, which has a green fipple and is brass, and definitely has
>another higher tone when you play in the low octave. I also have a
>Ralph Cook low D, which is pretty cool, and has a good mellow sound,
>although I am just a beginner with it. I find that it seems to get
>stopped up by condensation fairly often, but then that may be because I
>am a novice or something.
You can often reduce condensation by dipping the fipple in a mild detergent
solution and letting it dry. The thin soap film helps to keep the moisture
from beading. Is this in a faq somewhere?
dtk
Paul Little
<otta...@nrn1.NRCan.gc.ca> writes
>The problem
>with sessions is whistle players can't hear themselves
>so they blow harder which throws it out of tune
>with itself even more.
Therein is the beauty of the Susato's. Although I find mine (C) to be a
little too pure in tone (a bit recorder like perhaps) and certainly too
loud to practice with in my front room. In a bustling folk festival pub
it is handy to be able to hear oneself (you can feel the whole whistle
resonate ! I quite like that, it *feels* loud but without being shrill).. I
tend only to use it with tunes I'm supremely confident with though, as
it enhances any mistakes, or else if the session has to compete with
Oasisophiles playing in the other corner (where do they all come
from? why do they think it's folk music?)
Otherwise my feadog is quite pleasing to play. I usually play it the
rest of the time.
That brings me to a question. Are there any whistles out there that
people would consider to be quieter than most. It might make life a
little easier for our neighbours dog.
_________________________
/_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _\
| [][][] Paul Little [][][] |
\_________________________/
Lawrence E Mallette
: The perfect whistle has yet to be made. I have a dozen
: or so cheapies, a few expensive ones and a couple of mid
: priced ones. I've also tried quite a few others. These
: days, my favourite is a modified Generation (drilled out
: the tone holes a bit)--it sounds the most traditional,
: has reasonably good tone (after modification), and
: it's cheap.
Drill? Hmmmm. I enlarge the holes when needed using
a jewelers file, the half-round sort. Can get a set
of a dozen of these at the hardware store for <$10.
: The expensive ones have squawking/shrill problems in
: the upper range but are generally cleaner in tone,
: intonation is better, and overall much louder.
My Thin Weasels are not shrill and don't squawk.
Snip
: breath pressure for it to stay in tune and have good
: tone. Outside of this range it sounds awful.
The Thin Weasels and Water Weasels are much less
sensitive to breath pressure than other whistles
I've tried. Lets you do a bit of the dynamics
thing I find myself doing on flute sometimes.
Also the Weasels are fully chromatic, with split
fingerings, and, having larger holes, are easier
to half-hole than others with small holes.
As you can tell, I'm sold on them.
Usual, disclaimer... No stock in the "company"
and never met the man, though I've spoken on
the phone with him several times.
-SNIP inappropriate complete repost.-
Lawrence E Mallette
: and little black when I next see them. I'll also fiddle
: around some more with the Clarke. Maybe if I get more of
: a knife edge on the bit of metal that looks like a reed,
: it will improve the tone and cut down the wind requirement.
You don't need a knife edge, but the sheet of wind coming out
of the windway has to blow across the "blade" just right,
to get a good tone. On the Clarke (and Shaw) this can be
adjusted by reshaping the windway. You can also cut down
on the amount of air required, by pressing down (just a f
raction of a mm) on the metal top of the windway (uniformly
top to bottom of windway) to narrow the windway a bit.
This can change the angle at which the column of air hits
the blade, which may then have to be adjusted. And if
you totally screw it up, you've lost what? $6-7.
: It sounds like many of you routinely modify your whistles
: to get the sound you want.
My cheapies, yup.
Lawrence E Mallette
: That brings me to a question. Are there any whistles out there that
: people would consider to be quieter than most. It might make life a
: little easier for our neighbours dog.
The Walton's whistles (I have a D and a C) are very quite. Unusable
at our session, except for tunes I'm trying to pick out), but sweet
for the living room.
Lawrence E Mallette
: Why would a whistle have to mature to sound better? I
: can accept this for a wooden instrument, but it sounds odd
: for a plastic and metal instrument. On the other hand,
: I didn't notice any lower harmonic on the Oak's upper
: register when I first bought it.
Be sure to clean the windway occasionally. I find that
a two inch by 8-10 mm strip of cardboard cut from a
cereal box or cola carton, with a bit of a pointed end,
works well. Occasionally you get a bit of foreign
material out, and the tone picks up. This is necessary
only every few months.
Steve Jones
daughter's Sweetone. The Feadog has a strong, slightly breathy tone,
finger holes are larger and eassier for me and the cylindrical suits me
better than the conical. Try it, Should be less than $10.
I am open for suggestions on my second whistle. I am leaning towards the
Little Black.
Steve
"Ain't just whistlin' Dixie"
Nigel Gatherer
>
> Another problem with tone quality concerns the end of a note....I can't
> seem to control the way note-ends sound on the whistle. They are always
Lawrence - any thoughts on this?
Han Speek
"Steve Jones" <sjo...@hydroseal.com> writes:
> Just a novices opinion, but I really like my Feadog D. I prefer it over my
> daughter's Sweetone. The Feadog has a strong, slightly breathy tone,
> finger holes are larger and eassier for me and the cylindrical suits me
> better than the conical. Try it, Should be less than $10.
an older brass & green plastic one, a newer one of same, and a nickel & black
plastic one with the same mouthpiece design as the newer brass one. The older
head design is definitely better than the current one, and the nickel one is
the worst of the 3.
>
> I am open for suggestions on my second whistle. I am leaning towards the
> Little Black.
Walton's Little Black, which btw is the same as the Walton's Guinness whistle
(though that one is a lot more expensive) has an aluminum tube, which gives
it a much softer, but very pleasing tone. It can take a lot of air without
going shrill, yet it will also sound good with only a little air. Ideal starter
or practice instrument.
My current favourites are the Oak (though they are pretty expensive, at least
in Ireland - might be they're cheaper in the US as they are made there), the
plain metal Sweetone (sings more than the coloured ones, but still very
breathy) and the bunch of Susatos (Eb, D, C, A).
>
> Steve
>
> "Ain't just whistlin' Dixie"
Han.
--
H. Speek, B.Sc. H.S...@el.utwente.nl
MESA Research Institute http://www.ice.el.utwente.nl/~han/
Univ. of Twente, P.O. Box 217, 7500 AE, Enschede, The Netherlands
BREWERPAUL
>sensitive to breath pressure than other whistles
>I've tried. Lets you do a bit of the dynamics
>thing I find myself doing on flute sometimes.
>
>Also the Weasels are fully chromatic, with split
I'll second that!!!!! Amazing whistles, wether wood or PVC.
BREWERPAUL
>people would consider to be quieter than most. It might make life a
>little easier for our neighbours dog.
Of my many whistles, my Clarke D is the quietest.
rsh...@my-dejanews.com
not like the brightly painted finishes. The Sweetones do come in black and
natural (unpainted) finishes. In the recent past I have purchased via mail
order both black and natural finish Sweetones from Hobgoblin USA
(http://www.hobgoblin-USA.com). They list them with seperate catalog numbers
from the other color Sweetones so you can specify what color you want, and
the natural finish whistles are actually cheaper than the painted ones. Most
of the other mail order vendors say you can request a color but do not
guarantee they can provide the color you want, and most do not seem to have
the natural finish whistles. I think Hobgoblin USA has the catalog numbers
listed for the D whistles, but they do not have seperate numbers listed for C
whistles in black and natural, but do have them available if you contact
them. They also have the regular Clarke whistle with the wood plugs available
in natural finish, as opposed to the more common black finish if anyone is
interested. BTW I am not affiliated with them in any way, but I am a
satisfied customer.
Rob Sheard
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
rsh...@my-dejanews.com
they do do like the brightly painted finishes that are most commonly
available. The Sweetones are available in black and natural(unpainted)
finishes. I have bought some fairly recently via mail order from Hobgoblin
USA (http://www.hobgoblin-usa.com) who I belive imports them directly. They
have the black and natural finish whistles listed under seperate catalog
numbers, so you can order exactly what you want, and the natural finish
whistles are actually a little cheaper than the painted ones. Most of the
other mail order places let you request a color, but do not promise to send
the color that you request, and they do not generally seem to have the black
or natural finish whistles. The catlog numbers for D whistles are listed on
Hobgoblin's website, and if you contact them you can also get the numbers for
black and natural C whistles. They also have the regular Clarke whistles with
wood plugs available in natural finish as opposed to the more common black if
anyone is interested. If your order is over $20 they do not charge shipping.
BTW I am not affiliated with this company, I am just a satisfied customer.
Paul Little
n...@weblabs.com> writes
>You can often reduce condensation by dipping the fipple in a mild detergent
>solution and letting it dry
The problem with that is the notes get trapped in little bubbles as
they come out the whistle. Then when the bubbles get burst the notes
emerge in all the wrong order (;>P)
Royce Lerwick
Harrison) wrote:
>In article <jbh5-26089...@cu-dialup-2221.cit.cornell.edu>,
>jb...@pitbull.cornell.edu (Jean B. Hunter) wrote:
>
>> The Susato is in
>> tune but has an odd plastic sound.
>
>???? Plastic sound???? Sorry, but I'm putting in my vote for this being
>the best whistle that you currently own. I'd give it another try. It's a
>powerhouse sound-wise and is VERY in tune. I only have a paltry twelve or
>so whistles and it's by far my favourite although I love my Clarke for
>airs. Ain't got me-self one of them thar fancy ole Copelands. Yet. :)
What you say about the Susato is absolutely correct, and I have an old
one with the wood fipple block and heavier plastic that is even
better. From what I've read here is sounds like this beginner for some
reason absolutely hates the best instruments possibly because they all
sound like tin whistles and not her precious recorder. If you can't
for instance, get a good sound out of either the Susato or a
Generation, it's you--not the whistle. You have to blow the whistle
into tone and that's an ear-breath cooperative effort that won't work
if the sound you think you want to hear is not like a good whistle.
You will continue to blow the thing off the mark.
Royce
Royce Lerwick
<gath...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>Jean Hunter in Ithaca, ages ago, wrote:
>>
>> Another problem with tone quality concerns the end of a note....I can't
>> seem to control the way note-ends sound on the whistle. They are always
>> choppy and abrupt...important on slow airs... Advice please...
>
>Lawrence - any thoughts on this?
>
Not being Lawrence, I'd say essentially all of her tone/tuning
problems stem from a lack of sensitivity for the needs of her
instrument in terms of breath control. The tail end of the notes in
particular. She also referred to diaphram vibrato--which for a whistle
is a very very subtle thing and more choked up in the throat than
coming straight from the diaphragm. It's also not the *primary* form
of vibrato and pretty much designates the user as someone out of the
"recorder and early music fraternity" as one of us describes it.
Specifically, you have to learn to let the breath fall off in a more
controlled fashion if you're trying for that drop-pitched decay
effect--a whistle bore is far more responsive than a flute or recorder
and at its pitch you get very rapid response to breath fluctuations.
Royce
Royce Lerwick
<removeth...@weblabs.com> wrote:
>Wasn't there a reel written about that? "Strip the Whistle"?
>
>dtk
>
No, I think that was "Strip the Whistler."
Royce
Steven Harris
>In a previous article, sha...@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu (Steven Harris) wrote:
>>I have an loved my little black whistle made by Walton but they
>>have recently put out a new whistle which I think sounds great. It is
>>called a Mellow D whislte also by Walton, it has the same diamter as their
>>C whistle and is therefore shorter than most D whistles. I believe it
>>is the wider diameter that gives it such a nice tone. It plays real easy.
>>
> I was not impressed with my latest Walton's (bronze body, green top,
>big diam. , I assume this is the "mellow D") -- I was told it was like
>a Soodlum - but I bought it because it said Walton's (see below). I
>had to extend the bottom with a piece of electrical tape before it
>was anywhere near in tune.
>chris
If it is a Mellow D whistle, it will say Mellow D on the sticker. I have
another Walton D, same colors that's not a Mellow D and I also prefer my
little black whistle to it. If your Walton D green/brass is the same basic
dimensions, length and hole placement as the little black, it's not a Mellow
D.
Steve
Steven Harris
Lawrence E Mallette <mall...@bcm.tmc.edu> wrote:
>GSC Conference (otta...@nrn1.NRCan.gc.ca) wrote:
>
>: breath pressure for it to stay in tune and have good
>: tone. Outside of this range it sounds awful.
>
>sensitive to breath pressure than other whistles
>I've tried. Lets you do a bit of the dynamics
>thing I find myself doing on flute sometimes.
This is curious. I've just made a B whistle out of CPVC which
has pretty thick walls, and unlike the inexpensive whistles I've
bought, it is very resistant to changing the pitch via breath
pressure. I wonder if it is the thicker walls that lessen the
effects of varying air pressure (ie at the tone holes). Are the
Weasels thicker walled than brass tubed whistles?
>Also the Weasels are fully chromatic, with split
>fingerings, and, having larger holes, are easier
>to half-hole than others with small holes.
Do you mean that using cross-fingering you can get
all chromatic notes? If this is true, WOW! That must
be some whistle design/designer.
Steve
Steven Harris
terrible. May some ocean goo gets stuck on them in transit to the
emerald isle that improves the sound. I have my Oak Soaking in the
heat of my chevette and is merely a utility whistle for stop lights.
DobieDog
Lawrence E Mallette
: Jean Hunter in Ithaca, ages ago, wrote:
: >
: > Another problem with tone quality concerns the end of a note....I can't
: > seem to control the way note-ends sound on the whistle. They are always
: > choppy and abrupt...important on slow airs... Advice please...
: Lawrence - any thoughts on this?
Two categories:
(1) Approaching the end of the last note
(2) Stopping the actual last note itself.
(1)
You can approach the end by bending or shading the
note downward in pitch just a hair, by slowly lowering
a lower finger a bit over a lower hole, to very
partially obstruct it. This gives a "dying" effect.
You can approach the end of the last note at the
end of the phrase with an ornament (a strike, a cran
or a cut), coming back to the home note for just a
fraction of a second. Instead of "dying" this sort
of picks up the listener's expectations.
(2)
To end the home note, you have three choices.
(a) Stop the note with your tongue. Produces an abrupt, sometimes
harsh end to the note, and can squeek. Use only for effect.
(b) Stop the note by stopping blowing. The pitch will sink and
the volume fade at the same time. Can get away with this
if you've already bent the note down.
(c) Open the mouth:
Continue to exhale, but stop the note by opening your
mouth (actually by snarling with both sides of your upper
lip). This is the way recorder players are taught to stop
notes, as it gives the cleanest end to the note. This
does require some practice to get used to, but is the
tried (centuries worth) and true way for the fipple
flute family of instruments.
Of course....
If the audience goes wild at the end of your tune,
as they certainly should, it won't even matter...
They'll drown out the last couple of bars anyway.
Lawrence E Mallette
: Not being Lawrence, I'd say essentially all of her tone/tuning
: problems stem from a lack of sensitivity for the needs of her
: instrument in terms of breath control. The tail end of the notes in
: particular. She also referred to diaphram vibrato--which for a whistle
: is a very very subtle thing and more choked up in the throat than
: coming straight from the diaphragm. It's also not the *primary* form
: of vibrato and pretty much designates the user as someone out of the
: "recorder and early music fraternity" as one of us describes it.
Beg pardon, Royce, but the constant use of diaphragm vibrato is
a modern orchestral thing, mastered by all good modern (Boehm)
flute players, and difficult to put aside when they move "back"
to recorder. In Early Music circles, diaphragm vibrato thus marks
one as a modern flute player who is dabbling in recorder.
The model of good recorder playing is the absence of diaphragm
vibrato, with "flattement" (?sp) [the finger vibrato used by
Irish flute and whistle players for effect, usually on slow airs]
used sparingly and in specific places as an ornament. Early music
and Irish music have at least that in common.
: Specifically, you have to learn to let the breath fall off in a more
: controlled fashion if you're trying for that drop-pitched decay
: effect--a whistle bore is far more responsive than a flute or recorder
: and at its pitch you get very rapid response to breath fluctuations.
See my answer in a parallel posts about ways to end the note.
Call me Larry.
Have a nice tune!
Lawrence E Mallette
: In article <6s68tm$i...@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>,
: Lawrence E Mallette <mall...@bcm.tmc.edu> wrote:
: >The Thin Weasels and Water Weasels are much less
: >sensitive to breath pressure than other whistles
: >I've tried. Lets you do a bit of the dynamics
: >thing I find myself doing on flute sometimes.
: This is curious. I've just made a B whistle out of CPVC which
: has pretty thick walls, and unlike the inexpensive whistles I've
: bought, it is very resistant to changing the pitch via breath
: pressure. I wonder if it is the thicker walls that lessen the
: effects of varying air pressure (ie at the tone holes). Are the
: Weasels thicker walled than brass tubed whistles?
The walls are thicker than those of brass whistles, but
thinner than any other wooden whistle I've ever seen.
Has to be very good wood and very good tooling to get
this thinness. But don't think that explains the
steadiness. More likely due to other design features.
: >Also the Weasels are fully chromatic, with split
: >fingerings, and, having larger holes, are easier
: >to half-hole than others with small holes.
: Do you mean that using cross-fingering you can get
: all chromatic notes? If this is true, WOW! That must
: be some whistle design/designer.
My point exactly.
PS. I did up a fingering chart for Mr. Schultz, and
I believe he has adopted it for "send out" to his
customers who request one. So I have played around
with the flats and sharps. Not all equally strong
and clear, but not bad at all.
Larry
Have a nice tune!
J.M. Dungan
>
> Jean B. Hunter wrote in message ...
>
> >I can't figure out if the problem is the whistle, the musician,
> >or the music critic who was brought up on classical music and
> >classical performance standards
>
> You may want to consider trying other whistles. I do not own an Oak, but I
> do own the other two you mentioned (Susato and Clarke). Two others I
> recommend are the Clarke Sweetone and the Waltons Mello D. The Sweetone has
> a "purer" sound than the regular Clarke, but is remarkably easy to control.
> The Mello D has a more "rugged" sound to it but sustains more volume.
<SNIP>
I'd like to put in a vote for the Feadog, which I don't often see
mentioned. It's a little too quiet for large sessions, but it has a
beautiful tone and is in-tune (and tunable!).
(For the record, I haven't played the Susato, Oak, or Walton; I like
both the Clarke regular and Sweetone fairly well; and I can't see why
anyone would ever want to play a Generation except to be loud.)
Cheers!
-- J.M. Dungan
Stephen Copinger
J.M. Dungan wrote in message <6sii8d$d...@newsops.execpc.com>...
><SNIP>
>
>I'd like to put in a vote for the Feadog, which I don't often see
>mentioned. It's a little too quiet for large sessions, but it has a
>beautiful tone and is in-tune (and tunable!).
>
>(For the record, I haven't played the Susato, Oak, or Walton; I like
>both the Clarke regular and Sweetone fairly well; and I can't see why
>anyone would ever want to play a Generation except to be loud.)
>
>Cheers!
>
>-- J.M. Dungan
I also like the Feadog. I originally used the brass & green, then switched
to the nickle & black when it first came out. I stuck with that until fairly
recently when I found a slightly better whistle (which is hand crafted and
*much* more expensive). I still use my Feadog C.
One point I have heard as a complaint is a point I actually like - it is
fairly sensitive and you can bend the note by breath much the same as you
can with a flute. As a flautist I like this, but I can appreciate why some
people might prefer a more stable whistle which doesn't need as much
practice to keep the notes in tune.
As to Generations, the main advantage is the range of keys they come in. The
Sweetone is fair enough, a good solid whistle which I recommend to those
beginners who don't like the Feadog, but it does sound a little like a
<whisper> recorder. ;-)
Incidently, as a little pocket whistle I use an Eagle D whistle body with a
Feadog head. Small, discrete, and not too bad a sound for when you really
need to whistle ;-)
Beannachd leibh
Stephen
Chuck Boody
<S-Cop...@zetnet.co.bounce.uk> wrote:
> J.M. Dungan wrote in message <6sii8d$d...@newsops.execpc.com>...
> ><SNIP>
> >
> The
> Sweetone is fair enough, a good solid whistle which I recommend to those
> beginners who don't like the Feadog, but it does sound a little like a
> <whisper> recorder. ;-)
>
It sounds a bit like a recorder for the same reason the original Clarke
does--the body is reverse conical bore rather than cylindrical as most of
the other whistles are. The change of bore shape changes the strength of
the overtones (and also of the notes themselves a bit) and hence the tone
quality.
Note to Royce: I did NOT say go play a recorder...let's not see that
thread again!)
Chuck Boody