Irish flute embouchure
Mulvanerty
I was showing a friend, who plays classical flute, how the Irish flute is played. He was interested in the
ornaments and complicated melodies of Irish music. He also noted my embouchure was unique. I said this is
becuase I taught myself, and I could be playing incorrectly! What is the proper way to shape your mouth to
play an Irish style flute?
Thanks=
J. Mulvanerty
Brad Hurley
In article <31FAA7...@worlnet.att.net>, Mulvanerty
<Mulva...@worlnet.att.net> wrote:
> What is the proper way to shape your mouth to
>play an Irish style flute?
Others who are more familiar with classical style may disagree, but I
think there's no difference in the shape of your mouth in playing Irish
vs. classical. What differs is the angle at which your breath hits the
embouchure hole and the kind of tone that you're striving for. Many
traditional players blow with a lot of force, almost straight across the
hole, and aim for a buzzing tone in the first octave that is actually
almost at the breakpoint between the first and second octaves. Classical
players tend to strive for a "pure" (and less breathy) tone, and they
employ a lot more dynamic range.
-Brad
--
Brad Hurley
Freelance Environmental and Science Writing
31 Gage Street
Bellows Falls, VT 05101-1616, USA
Tel: +1 802 463 9417; Fax: +1 802 463 4217; e-mail: bhu...@sover.net
"I believe a leaf of grass is no less than the journey-work of the stars...
And a mouse is miracle enough to stagger sextillions of infidels."
--Walt Whitman
Kathryn Camfield
Mulvanerty (Mulva...@worlnet.att.net) writes:
> I was showing a friend, who plays classical flute, how the Irish flute is played. He was interested in the
> ornaments and complicated melodies of Irish music. He also noted my embouchure was unique. I said this is
> becuase I taught myself, and I could be playing incorrectly! What is the proper way to shape your mouth to
> play an Irish style flute?
I don't know that there is a "proper" embouchure for Celtic flute. All I
can add is that I used to play classical flute before I played the Celtic
flute, and my embouchure hasn't changed that much. I don't think there's
too much of a shift from one type of flute to the other, aside from
getting used to not having a lip plate on Celtic flutes.
Kathryn
--
"Strangers they're exciting, their mystery never ends,
But there's nothing like looking at your own history
in the faces of your friends."
- Ani DiFranco
KICK-S
Brad Hurley wrote:
>
> In article <31FAA7...@worlnet.att.net>, Mulvanerty
> <Mulva...@worlnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> >play an Irish style flute?
>
> think there's no difference in the shape of your mouth in playing Irish
> vs. classical. What differs is the angle at which your breath hits the
> embouchure hole and the kind of tone that you're striving for. Many
> traditional players blow with a lot of force, almost straight across the
> hole, and aim for a buzzing tone in the first octave that is actually
> almost at the breakpoint between the first and second octaves. Classical
> players tend to strive for a "pure" (and less breathy) tone, and they
> employ a lot more dynamic range.
>
> -Brad
>
> --
> Brad Hurley
> Freelance Environmental and Science Writing
> 31 Gage Street
> Bellows Falls, VT 05101-1616, USA
> Tel: +1 802 463 9417; Fax: +1 802 463 4217; e-mail: bhu...@sover.net
>
>
Brad,
I agree. It's very difficult to describe an embouchure, but in Irish
music, the "desireable" tone is a very reedy first octave- rich in
overtones. I find that opening my lips more, is helpful. I've actually
been amazed that my old Austrian instrument has a better tone than my
Rudall and Rose, probably because of the embouchure.
Steve
Richard Moon
I was lucky enough to be able to buy a good Rudall and Rose flute about a
year ago. Up till then I was playing a decent modern flute by Eugene
Lambe. I found that I could not get a decent tone out of the R&R and
thought there was something wrong with it, but the chap selling it asked
me to hear it played by a good local player. When I did I realised that
it was not the R&R that was the problem but my embouchure. He was able to
show me what I was doing wrong.
It is hard to describe the changes I had to make but it seems to me that
I play closer to the hole now and blow more downward and my embouchure is
more O-shaped, more rounded. I am now able to get that resonant, warm
tone which characterises these old flutes - at least some of the time !
Inside my (original) flute case is a notice which says ( I paraphrase)
that there are a lot of fake Rudall and Roses about and all genuine
flutes will have this notice in the case which is signed by the
proprietors. So perhaps not all 'Rudall and Rose' flutes are what they
appear to be ?
--
Richard Moon
DCS Information Systems Ltd.
Software development, support and maintenance.
Informix, VisualBasic, Delphi, Perl, Java, Speedware
Tel +44 (0) 1908 210510 Fax +44 (0) 1908 211123
html://www.dcs.co.uk
"All objects in Java are referred to by a reference to the object"
Unix Review May 1996
BREWERPAUL
The proper embouchure is the one that gives you the best sound! If it
works, don't fix it! Seriously, do experiment and try other peoples
advice, but if you have a sound that you like, without too much extraneous
noises, nice and strong, or soft where required, don't let anyone tell you
to change it! Paul Troy NY
Peter Kwangjun Suk
In article <31FD21...@prophecy.hsc.colorado.edu>, KICK-S
<KIC...@prophecy.hsc.colorado.edu> wrote:
> Brad,
>
> I agree. It's very difficult to describe an embouchure, but in Irish
> music, the "desireable" tone is a very reedy first octave- rich in
> overtones. I find that opening my lips more, is helpful. I've actually
> been amazed that my old Austrian instrument has a better tone than my
> Rudall and Rose, probably because of the embouchure.
>
> Steve
Grey Larson at Swananoa stated that one wants as small an embrochure hole
as possible, to get the most efficient use of your air. (Ideally, you
should breathe only once per phrase or maybe even once per part.) But
looking at his embrochure hole, I found that I could make one even smaller
than his, but that this one is very awkward to play with. Widening it
helps the tone a lot, but reduces my air efficiency a bit too much, I
find.
--PKS
--
There's neither heaven nor hell
Save that we grant ourselves.
There's neither fairness nor justice
Save what we grant each other.
Peter Kwangjun Suk <s...@pobox.com>
Musician, Computer Science Graduate Student
[finger s...@pobox.com for PGP public key]
AnBoZy
Look for the breaking point of the note in the first octave. If you desire
the breathy nasal sound, this is your best bet.
If you are using alot of air to over blow the notes, you may have to work
through the phrasing of each tune you play. No crime in this. It seems to
help develop some individuality among players. I enjoy hearing some
diversity in playing styles.
Arbo
KICK-S
Not to beat this "embouchure thing" to death - I agree with the
efficiency issue (using a wider embouchure). I think for me, the most
difficult thing to do is not to overblow in an attempt to increase
volume, because the pitch invariably changes, particularly in the second
octave. It's better to play as if you had a microphone in your face, and
keep the pitch in tune, rather than striving for more volume.
Just my thoughts.....
Steve
Nicolas Eisen
Kathryn Camfield (ad...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
:
: > I was showing a friend, who plays classical flute, how the Irish flute is played. He was interested in the
: > ornaments and complicated melodies of Irish music. He also noted my embouchure was unique. I said this is
: I don't know that there is a "proper" embouchure for Celtic flute. All I
: can add is that I used to play classical flute before I played the Celtic
: flute, and my embouchure hasn't changed that much. I don't think there's
: too much of a shift from one type of flute to the other, aside from
: getting used to not having a lip plate on Celtic flutes.
:
: Kathryn
: The way to blow an wooden flute 's ambouchure (by this I mean Rudall, Pratten
: etc) is by using what is called a pressure ambouchure, which can be summed
: up as making the smallest ROUND flow of air go through the ambouchure. This
: allows a big sound with minimal air. To think that there is something wrong
: with your Rudall is to say the very least stupid and arrogant ( I dont rem-
: ember the idiot who was wondering that...). Most people who dont have a big
: sound do not have it because of their blowing, nothing to do with the flute.
: Again, small ROUND flow of air, try it and you'll see that your low D will
: sound like a boat's horn.
: Nicolas Eisen.
: --
Mulvanerty
> : The way to blow an wooden flute 's ambouchure (by this I mean Rudall, Pratten
> : etc) is by using what is called a pressure ambouchure, which can be summed
> : up as making the smallest ROUND flow of air go through the ambouchure. This
> : allows a big sound with minimal air. To think that there is something wrong
> : with your Rudall is to say the very least stupid and arrogant ( I dont rem-
> : ember the idiot who was wondering that...). Most people who dont have a big
> : sound do not have it because of their blowing, nothing to do with the flute.
> : Again, small ROUND flow of air, try it and you'll see that your low D will
> : sound like a boat's horn.
Thanks to everyone who commented on the Irish flute embouchure! I now see how there are unique aspects of
playing the Irish flute. These were noted, as I previously mentioned, by my friend who plays classical flute.
The basic differences are a more breathy tone, a less taught embouchre, more rounder shape of the mouth, and
air passing more downward on the hole. I would appreciate more comments on more differneces between
Irish/Celtic and classical style flute embouchure.....
Joseph O'Maoilbhennacta
KICK-S
Nicolas Eisen wrote:
>
> Kathryn Camfield (ad...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
> :
> : Mulvanerty (Mulva...@worlnet.att.net) writes:
> : > I was showing a friend, who plays classical flute, how the Irish flute is played. He was interested in the
> : > ornaments and complicated melodies of Irish music. He also noted my embouchure was unique. I said this is
> : > becuase I taught myself, and I could be playing incorrectly! What is the proper way to shape your mouth to
> : > play an Irish style flute?
> :
> : I don't know that there is a "proper" embouchure for Celtic flute. All I
> : can add is that I used to play classical flute before I played the Celtic
> : flute, and my embouchure hasn't changed that much. I don't think there's
> : too much of a shift from one type of flute to the other, aside from
> : getting used to not having a lip plate on Celtic flutes.
> :
> : Kathryn
>
> : etc) is by using what is called a pressure ambouchure, which can be summed
> : up as making the smallest ROUND flow of air go through the ambouchure. This
> : allows a big sound with minimal air. To think that there is something wrong
> : with your Rudall is to say the very least stupid and arrogant ( I dont rem-
> : ember the idiot who was wondering that...). Most people who dont have a big
> : sound do not have it because of their blowing, nothing to do with the flute.
> : Again, small ROUND flow of air, try it and you'll see that your low D will
> : sound like a boat's horn.
> : --
> : Nicholas,
I hope you weren't referring to the comments I made about my Rudall as
"stupid" or "arrogant". In my case, given the same embouchure, my
Austrian instrument has a better tone than the Rudall. I certainly am not
blaming the instrument, but suffice it to say, not every Rudall is a
great instrument. So your point is well taken: a poor embouchure will not
be enhanced by a classical simple-system instrument.
Steve
KICK-S
Nicolas Eisen
KICK-S (KIC...@prophecy.hsc.colorado.edu) wrote:
: > : --
: > : Nicholas,
: I hope you weren't referring to the comments I made about my Rudall as
: "stupid" or "arrogant". In my case, given the same embouchure, my
: Austrian instrument has a better tone than the Rudall. I certainly am not
: blaming the instrument, but suffice it to say, not every Rudall is a
: great instrument. So your point is well taken: a poor embouchure will not
: be enhanced by a classical simple-system instrument.
:
: Steve
certain , I have yet to see a Rudall with a bad mouth piece, granted most
of the Rudall's are not in tune etc but unless you mouth piece has been
fuc.. with it should be quite good. Granted, some are better made than
others..
Nicolas Eisen
Fernando Garzon
I think we all need to remember that the wooden flute has a great
range of tonal colour in the hands of a very skilled player. I love
listening to the "masters" change their tone from a reedy rich tone
full of overtones on a fast reel to a pure clean baroque soun on an
O' Carolan Aire. I think we need to judge embouchure by the sound
it produces. Nobody except the players are really concerned about
what a lips look like; rather our sound is what we are ultimately
judged on. I've noticed that many players forget the importance of
what is happening behind the lips- the position of the tongue, how
open the throat is, how inflated are your lungs what is your
diaphram doing etc. A big difference in playing styles from
classical to traditional playing is traditional playing often
requires a strong rhythmic emphasis and this effects our playing
style. Classical flute players usually don't have to carry fast
pulsating dance rhythms by themselves!
KICK-S
Nicolas,
The instrument does sound good, it just doesn't have as big a sound as my
other instrument. Now, I should hasten to add that this flute has a
patent head, which may lead to all kinds of problems. However, the
instrument doesn't leak (to my knowledge). I simply think we should not
mislead people to think that every Rudall is going to produce a
recording-style tone.
What are you playing these days?
Steve
Nicolas Eisen
KICK-S (KIC...@prophecy.hsc.colorado.edu) wrote:
I play two flutes by Chris Wilkes, a Pratten and a Rudall, depending on which
day it is ( I like them both very much). Sorry about your flute, maybe you
should have someone look at it see if there is any thing that can be done
especially if the rest of the flute is nice. The patented head joint is
definitely not a very good idea, they usually do not play as nicely as the
"normal " heads, which by the way you could get a flute maker to make you
one. Good luck
Nicolas