CSN/ELP/YES
Mike Janson
1) Recently acquiring much of the earlier Joni Mitchell catalog has
made me notice that David Crosby, Steven Stills, and Graham Nash
helped her out a great deal, and the recent reformation of CSN&Y
has even sparked further interest for me. I own no CSN albums,
but have heard and really like "Teach Your Children" and
"Judy Blue Eyes: Suite" (is that the right title?). Well, are these
on the early compilation album (titled _So Far_, right?)? If not,
can I bag 'em both on one CD? Or would I just be wise to buy the
albums they were originally released on (what albums and how good
are they?)
2) Also got recently interested in ELP, but own none of their stuff.
Is their first, _ELP_, a good place to start? (By the way, would
_I Robot_ by Alan Parsons Project be a good place to start with that
group?)
3) I heard that Trevor Rabin recently left the band who call themselves
Yes to pursue his solo career. My question is: who the hell is playing
guitar on their upcoming album? Who the hell is SINGING on the
upcoming album? (If Chris Squire were smart, he'd pack up his
bags now and join up with ABW&H. Something to dream about I guess...)
"Reunions are complete rubbish." --Bill Bruford
+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+
|Mike Janson jan...@garnet.berkeley.edu |
|"Politics is for the moment. An equation is for eternity." --Albert Einstein|
+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+
Matthias Blumrich
>2) Also got recently interested in ELP, but own none of their stuff.
> Is their first, _ELP_, a good place to start? (By the way, would
> _I Robot_ by Alan Parsons Project be a good place to start with that
> group?)
"I Robot" is the best place to start with Alan Parsons. I also recommend
"Turn Of A Friendly Card" and "Eve".
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Donal O'Coileain
> but have heard and really like "Teach Your Children" and
> "Judy Blue Eyes: Suite" (is that the right title?). Well, are these
> on the early compilation album (titled _So Far_, right?)? If not,
> can I bag 'em both on one CD? Or would I just be wise to buy the
> albums they were originally released on (what albums and how good
> are they?)
_So Far_ is a good reflection of their early years, the selection
of songs and the quality is good. If you buy _So Far_ then buying
(as I did) their other early albums is a slight waste of money.
They released _Crosby, Stills and Nash_ and _Deja Vu_ (as CSNY)
then a live album _4 Way Street_(all 1969-1972 period) and THEN _So Far_
in 1974. So as you can imagine there are very few good songs from
the early years that are not on _So Far_. _4 Way Street_ is made
interesting only by Neil Young's contributions.
I have always felt cheated by CSN(Y), they have release 5 albums
of 'new' material - _Crosby, Stills and Nash_
_Deja Vu_
_CSN_
_Daylight Again_
_American Dream_
in a 20 year period and from that have released 2 live albums (_4 Way
Street_ and _Allies_) and 2 collection albums (_So Far_ and one from
about 1980 whose name I forget.) They milk their own product to say
the least ! It is really frustrating because they release really
good albums, like _CSN_ and _Daylight Again_ and leave you waiting
for years for a new release only to turn out some hacked up pile
of old songs, old songs re-recorded, old songs recorded live and 1 or
2 new songs.
If you want to buy good CSN(Y) material then I recommend _So Far_,
_CSN_(1977 not 1969) and _Daylight Again_.
/ / /
Donal O Coileain. col...@nvpna1.prl.philips.nl or
col...@apolloway.prl.philips.nl
-- And out of the gloom a voice said, 'Smile and be happy for things could
be a lot worse'. So I smiled and was happy and behold, things got worse --
TeX Short Course Instructor
Tony Levin or John Giblin, but I haven't had a chance to find out.
-dh
Don Hosek <U33...@UICVM.UIC.EDU>
John J. Wood
>In article <25...@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> jan...@garnet.berkeley.edu (Mike Janson) writes:
>> has even sparked further interest for me. I own no CSN albums,
>> but have heard and really like "Teach Your Children" and
>> "Judy Blue Eyes: Suite" (is that the right title?). Well, are these
>> on the early compilation album (titled _So Far_, right?)? If not,
>> can I bag 'em both on one CD? Or would I just be wise to buy the
>> albums they were originally released on (what albums and how good
>> are they?)
I'd say go for CROSBY, STILLS & NASH and DEJU VU. They are both well worth
it and sound very good on CD, although you won't mistake it for an
all-digital disc.
>
> _So Far_ is a good reflection of their early years, the selection
> of songs and the quality is good. If you buy _So Far_ then buying
> (as I did) their other early albums is a slight waste of money.
> They released _Crosby, Stills and Nash_ and _Deja Vu_ (as CSNY)
> then a live album _4 Way Street_(all 1969-1972 period) and THEN _So Far_
> in 1974. So as you can imagine there are very few good songs from
> the early years that are not on _So Far_. _4 Way Street_ is made
> interesting only by Neil Young's contributions.
>
I thought FOUR WAY STREET was very nice. David Crosby's acoustic tunes ("Triad"and "The Lee Shore") are very nice. The electric stuff is pretty good too.
> I have always felt cheated by CSN(Y), they have release 5 albums
> of 'new' material - _Crosby, Stills and Nash_
> _Deja Vu_
> _CSN_
> _Daylight Again_
> _American Dream_
> in a 20 year period and from that have released 2 live albums (_4 Way
> Street_ and _Allies_) and 2 collection albums (_So Far_ and one from
> about 1980 whose name I forget.) They milk their own product to say
> the least ! It is really frustrating because they release really
> good albums, like _CSN_ and _Daylight Again_ and leave you waiting
> for years for a new release only to turn out some hacked up pile
> of old songs, old songs re-recorded, old songs recorded live and 1 or
> 2 new songs.
That compliation album is REPLAY, and was most noted for a poorly-remixed
version of the classic "Carry On", where the reprise and final verse were
replaced by a short jam. Overall, REPLAY is good, but not on the
same level (to my ears) as SO FAR. I agree with your entire paragraph here, Donal.
>
> If you want to buy good CSN(Y) material then I recommend _So Far_,
> _CSN_(1977 not 1969) and _Daylight Again_.
>
Here's where I disagree with Donal.
If it weren't for "Find The Cost Of Freedom" and "Ohio", to me SO FAR is
a rehash of CSN/Y tunes for $$$$.
I disagree with Donal's views of the first CSN album. To my ears,
this is a classic album with a batch of terrific songs, such as the
timeless "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes", David Crosby's hauntingly beautiful
"Guinnevere", the great "Wooden Ships", "Long Time Gone" and the blissful
"Helplessly Hoping" (the other 5 songs are very good, too:-).
I DO like the 1977 CSN album, but there were some weak spots on it too.
"Cathedral" always dragged to me. David Crosby's contributions weren't
of the same level as "Guinnevere" or "Almost Cut My Hair". Yes there
are gems on it ("Just A Song Before I Go", "Shadow Captain" [my personal
favorite on the album], "See The Changes" and "Dark Star"), but there
are more weak spots on this album than CSN (which has very few).
In all actuality, I felt and still feel that SO FAR and REPLAY were unnecessary
compilations, since for the former, there were only two albums of new material (and two
other songs) to choose from. For the latter, the songs were generally very
good to classic ("Love The One You're With") but REPLAY didn't seem to stand as a whole album. By the way, is FOUR WAY STREET on CD yet???
As for the other CSN albums, I thought DAYLIGHT AGAIN was of the same
cloth as CSN, with some classics ("Wasted On The Way", "Southern Cross"),
but there were some rather forgettable moments to my ears. Overall,
very good, but not great.
I was a tad disappointed with ALLIES. The new songs, despite their political
intentions, went nowhere, and the live performances were good, but
not exceptional.
I was very disappointed with AMERICAN DREAM, however. To me, a more
appropriate title would have been AMERICAN NIGHTMARE. The title track, I
thought, was very corny. Graham Nash's contributions were very tacky,
especially the embarrassing "Shadowland". Stephen Still's were okay
("Got It Made"), but not of the cloth as "Helplessly Hoping". Neil
Young's strongest song on this, to me, was "This Old House". David
Crosby, I thought, actaully made the strongest, most CONSISTENT
contributons with the nice "Compass" (although it sounds quite a bit
like "Guinnevere", musically) and the good-but-not-exceptional "Nighttime For The Generals". Still, overall, because of the very unnecessary overuse of
electronics and a groove that never really gets off the ground, to my
ears, AMERICAN DREAM will never be mistaken for DEJA VU, which I consider the
best of the CSN/Y releases.
To Donal: these are not flames, amigo, but just reasons why I disagree
with what you have written. I respect all the words you have
said, and I thank you for writing them:-)
Catfish John W.
"Guinnevere had green eyes, like yours, lady, like yours..."
ke...@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
live triple album,
"Welcome Back My Friends To The Show That Never Ends -
Ladies And Gentlemen... Emerson, Lake & Palmer"
('course the title alone deems merit :-) )
BTW does anyone know if this album is available on CD yet?? I'd really love
to get my hands on it if it is!
Other ELP picks:
The Best of Emerson, Lake & Palmer (obvious reasons)
Trilogy
Works (vol. I & II)
Hope you enjoy them as much as I!
-John T. Chapman
ke...@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Mitchell S. Gorman
> Anybody know who's playing Bass on the AWB&H album? It sounds kinda like
> Tony Levin or John Giblin, but I haven't had a chance to find out.
Tony Levin.
Mitch @ Rockwell, Anaheim
Disclaimer: Ohh, I dunno.
Kjeld Borch Egevang
>In article <25...@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> jan...@garnet.berkeley.edu (Mike Janson) writes:
>>2) Also got recently interested in ELP, but own none of their stuff.
>> Is their first, _ELP_, a good place to start? (By the way, would
>> _I Robot_ by Alan Parsons Project be a good place to start with that
>> group?)
>I recommend the first LP and the "Trilogy" LP.
>"I Robot" is the best place to start with Alan Parsons. I also recommend
>"Turn Of A Friendly Card" and "Eve".
Can't be serious. "Eve" is booring. No, you better get "Tales of Mystery
and Imagination" (the non-CD version is best, as Alan Parson remixed it
(urgh)) and while you're at it try "Pyramid".
| UUCP: k...@dde.dk (Kjeld Borch Egevang) | Dansk Data Elektronik
| or ...mcvax!enea!dkuug!dde!kbe | Denmark
John M. Relph
>In article <1...@mother.dde.uucp> k...@dde.uucp (Kjeld Borch Egevang) writes:
>>
>>Can't be serious. "Eve" is booring. No, you better get "Tales of Mystery
>>and Imagination" (the non-CD version is best, as Alan Parson remixed it
>>(urgh)) and while you're at it try "Pyramid".
>
I have heard it, and I agree with Kjeld.
> It's fantastic! Alan Parsons knows what
>he's doing when he remixes things, he's an engineer first, remember?
Clearly a matter of opinion in this case.
> There
>was a great article in Mix magazine last spring written by Alan Parsons,
>describing just how he re-mixed the album, how he strived to keep the
>original material there without adding new material, how he was happy to get
>rid of the "break" between "Dr. Tarr and Professer Fether" and "The Fall of
>the House of House of Usher" and what happened to the narration recorded
>for the album by Orson Wells, alas too late to make it on the original
>LP, but now added to the CD. I've had the LP version for about five years,
>and after reading the article by Parsons, I wanted a CD more than anything,
>if for nothing else than the new version of "Tales."
Great. I am glad to be rid of the "break", Orson Welles' narration is
pretty good, too. BUT, I hate the eighties drum sound. It sounds
especially bad at the point where the drums come in "The Fall of the
House of Usher", because the previous flat sound of the drums sounded
like someone knocking at a door, and the new lush "real drums" sound
like drums. Bogus. I do not the gratuitous guitar leads that were
added (from the original material, of course). I do not like the fact
that the symphonic material was broken up (the intro at the beginning
of the disc, the remainder in the usual place. Everything's got
buttloads of reverb and (hold your breath, here comes the big one)
Ambience. Fuck ambience.
Parsons showed some restraint in the original mix. He didn't put in
all of the guitar leads. He picked and chose. He made a lot of other
decisions that I appreciated. I realize that he believes that the
decisions he made for the remix were good artistic decisions, but as
far as I'm concerned, he just bolluxed up a good record. I think his
music has become pompous and overblown in the last few years, as the
music became less of a project (Powell, Woolfson and Parsons) and more
of an ego-trip (Parsons running the whole show).
Hand me that vinyl, laddie, I'm a hangin' on to it.
>As for Eve, I've never heard it. Oh, and you forgot to recomment "I Robot,"
>probably their second-best album ("Tales" is first in my book...)
Yeah, more good Powell early-20th-century-symphonic-style music, and a
few good songs. I'm glad Parsons didn't remush this one.
-- John
--
Your postings reflect upon you; be proud of them
David Schuetz
>
>and Imagination" (the non-CD version is best, as Alan Parson remixed it
>(urgh)) and while you're at it try "Pyramid".
Have you *heard* the CD version? It's fantastic! Alan Parsons knows what
he's doing when he remixes things, he's an engineer first, remember? There
was a great article in Mix magazine last spring written by Alan Parsons,
describing just how he re-mixed the album, how he strived to keep the
original material there without adding new material, how he was happy to get
rid of the "break" between "Dr. Tarr and Professer Fether" and "The Fall of
the House of House of Usher" and what happened to the narration recorded
for the album by Orson Wells, alas too late to make it on the original
LP, but now added to the CD. I've had the LP version for about five years,
and after reading the article by Parsons, I wanted a CD more than anything,
if for nothing else than the new version of "Tales." It was the first CD
I bought, and well worth the investment.
As for Eve, I've never heard it. Oh, and you forgot to recomment "I Robot,"
probably their second-best album ("Tales" is first in my book...)
David Schuetz
dsch...@umd5.umd.edu
Dave Lewis
>Can't be serious. "Eve" is booring. No, you better get "Tales of Mystery
>and Imagination" (the non-CD version is best, as Alan Parson remixed it
>(urgh)) and while you're at it try "Pyramid".
I rather liked the remixed version of "Tales of Mystery and Imagination", 'specially
the voice part from Orson Wells. Other little details were nice too. It gave a bit more
depth of interpretation to some of the songs.
Dave Lewis @ MCC CAD Program [512] 338-3663 | ARPA: le...@mcc.com
UUCP: {uunet,harvard,gatech,pyramid}!cs.utexas.edu!milano!cadillac!lewis
Richard K. Lloyd
2 cents (one pence ?) in :
I haven't heard the original vinyl "Tales of Mystery and Imagination", but
I don't care. It's a different record label, a different sound from all
future releases and I HATE IT !
My favourite Alan Parsons CDs in order of brilliance :
1. Ammonia Avenue. The title track is mind-blowing. One of the best last
tracks of an album I've heard (the other is "Lions" from Dire Straits
first album).
2. Eye in the Sky. "Silence and I" has the best orchestral middle section
of ANY Alan Parsons composition.
3. Turn of a Friendly Card. The last multi-part track handles the same theme
in several interesting ways.
4. Eve. Good mixture of songs on this. "Winding me up" and "Damned if I do"
for pop fans and "If I could change your (or was it my ?) mind" for a
pleasant last track.
The worst CDs are :
1. Tales of Mystery and Imagination. I bought this (on CD) after all the
others and it sounded like a completely different group. I'm so used to
the APP sound from "I Robot" onwards, that I instinctively baulked at
"Tales Of...". I've played it a couple of more times and I still dislike
it strongly. Too many instrumentals and that overly long titled track
(Dr. and Professor someone or other) made me laugh as they struggled to
fit the lyrics in !
2. I Robot. Some great tracks, but the instrumentals are way too weird (I
actually think that the instrumentals on other APP discs are the best
things on the album a lot of the time !).
3. Gaudi. The last track is a con (instrumental version of the first track)
and the disc is way too short. A disappointing release - but still with
some very good songs on it.
No doubt everyone will disagree with my choices (esp. Tales Of..!), but
everyone's taste is different...
Richard K. Lloyd, **** This is a MicroVAX II running VAX/VMS V4.7 ****
Computer Science Dept., * JANET : R...@UK.AC.LIV.CS.MVA or *
Liverpool University, * R...@000010500211.FTP.MAIL *
Merseyside, England, * Internet : RKL%mva.cs.l...@cunyvm.cuny.edu *
Great Britain. ****************************************************
Alan McNeely
Some are baffled that others rank Ammonia Avenue last.
Others are amazed that others rank it first.
Etc, etc...
IN HONOR OF ALL THESE, I announce the first annual Project poll.
Everybody who's interested, please E-mail me a list of the Parsons
albums with which you are familliar, in the order of your preference.
That is, the first on your list is your favorite, and the last is your
least favorite. I will use a highly complex (oh sure) technique to
determine the overall rankings and post them in a couple of weeks. When
you E-Mail, make any comments you like, and I'll post a few positive
and negative ones about each album. Please keep them as short as possible
WHILE STILL MAKING THEM MEANINGFUL AND INFORMATIVE TO OTHERS.
My E-mail address at the top of this post is correct... I'm looking
foward to hearing your comments.
Thanks,
Alan McNeely
Ken Stuart
>I haven't heard the original vinyl "Tales of Mystery and Imagination", but
>I don't care. It's a different record label, a different sound from all
>future releases and I HATE IT !
I haven't heard "Tales" yet, but it sounds better all the time!
>My favourite Alan Parsons CDs in order of brilliance :
>2. Eye in the Sky.
I couldn't even get all the way through the last song when I
auditioned this.
>The worst CDs are :
>
>1. Tales of Mystery and Imagination. I bought this (on CD) after all
> the others and it sounded like a completely different group. I'm
> so used to the APP sound from "I Robot" onwards, that I
> instinctively baulked at "Tales Of...". I've played it a couple of
> more times and I still dislike it strongly. Too many instrumentals
> and that overly long titled track (Dr. and Professor someone or
> other) made me laugh as they struggled to fit the lyrics in !
Alright, you win - where do I get a copy of "Tales"?
>2. I Robot. Some great tracks, but the instrumentals are way too weird (I
> actually think that the instrumentals on other APP discs are the best
> things on the album a lot of the time !).
Hmm, I think I should look for this too!
>3. Gaudi. The last track is a con (instrumental version of the first
track)
We wouldn't want anything so horrible. Imagine - no vocals!
And a different version of the same song - a ripoff, just like those
big singles with three different versions.
>No doubt everyone will disagree with my choices (esp. Tales Of..!), but
>everyone's taste is different...
Not only that, some people's are the inverse of one's tastes.
I guess my prior question of "Is _Eye in the Sky_ representative
of the A.P.P." has been answered.
Please, more long weird instrumentals!
[Add :-) to taste above.]
The ale in Liverpool is great, though, even the non-English
brew is fresh off the ship (like Guiness at the Hoop and Grapes).
--
- Ken
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k...@arc.UUCP arc!k...@apple.COM \ and not those of his employer.
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John Lorch
>Oh yeah, Batt was also the writer/producer/arranger of the music
>for the Wombles TV show (which I think was an English production).
>Contained the not-a-hit-on-this-side-of-the-ocean track "Remember
>You're a Womble".
> David A. (DAP) Pearlman
The Wombles! Yeah, I haven't listened to them for a coupla years now!
Thanks for reminding me, I'll go home and listen again tonight. Great
bubble-gum type pop, very big production, excellent musicianship (Chris
Spedding was a Womble, didja know that?). Lots of different styles of
music, at least on the one album I have (which is a domestic release,
btw). Beach Boys clone music, a waltz, some hoe-down music, etc, etc.
And all with a message. The Wombles were a British TV show with
characters that were vaguely similiar to the US show the Banana Splits
(except that the music was much better). I never saw the show, but it
seems that a major part of the message was to get kids to clean up their
trash and do their excercises and do what their parents tell them to.
Thanks, David, for the reminder.
--
John Lorch UUCP: ecf...@jhunix.UUCP
Johns Hopkins University ARPA: ecf...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu
Homewood Computing Facilities BITNET: ecf...@jhunix.BITNET
Kjeld Borch Egevang
[ opinions about Tales... deleted ]
>Great. I am glad to be rid of the "break", Orson Welles' narration is
>pretty good, too. ...
Actually, it's the narration I hate. It reminds me of some David Bedford
records with talk, talk and talk. What makes the Fall of the House of Usher
the very best part of the record, is the fact that it's instrumental. And
talk disturbs my feeling of a great classically inspired piece of music. When
I put on the record, I normally skip the first part of A Dream within a Dream.
Later on I jump up to skip the first part of the Fall of the House of Usher -
if I always had this much trouble listening to music without getting a deep
feeling of disgust I think I would give it up.
By the way, yes, I Robot is really worth mentioning. So is the Turn of a
Friendly Card. And actually the leading theme of Eve is fantastic (and the
rest is junk). Unfortunately I don't think any of the later records, Ammonia
Avenue, Eye in the Sky, Stereotomy, etc. is half as good as the early
records. Well, and now to contradict myself I have to admit the Silence and
I as well as Limelight are quite good.
Now we're talking Parsons, have you ever heard of Mike Batt? He wrote some
music very like Parsons, but more experimental. Look for he's first record
(I think) containing Lady of the Dawn and a lot of other good music.