Joao at montreal.......
Night
Hello
I was at the show of Joao at montreal
the show was schedule for 20:30
bit during the day they said that it will be at 21:30
he starst at 22:00
he was late...............but he was GREAT
A real good 2 hours of music !!!
It was full at the "salle Wilfrid Pelletier", I don't know how many
peoples, but surely more than 2 thousands
Everoby was keeping silence during the songs, really special
His voice is still really good, and for the guitar it's magic
he will be in Paris soon, have fun :-))))
he didn't do "Que reste-t-il de nos amours ?"
but he told us a nice and shy "Merci beaucoup"
Bye
Louis
NuBossa
Joao concert and I was pleasantly surprised he came back for two very long
encores. He really seemed to be in the mood to play, thank goodness.
The only words I heard him utter were in response to an exhange in Portugese
between a male and female audience member. Does anyone know what they were
talking about?
Tom
Night
It was the first time for me to
for the encores I think He just did one long of half an hour
(after chega de saudade)
I think the first time he left his chair was what it was
supposed to be the "entracte"
but he remembered that there was no entracte
because he strats late ( at 10 )
Me I just noticed a nice Merci beaucoup when he arrived
I did not hear when he talks to a couple
maybe someone can help on what he said
for you was he starting saudade de Bahia ( I heard just one chord)
when someone yell saudade de bahia from the balcony
He stop, smile and and played it
for my opinion on that show you can find it on my web site (in french)
http://www3.sympatico.ca/louis.briand/accueil.html
Bye
Louis
Reg Schwager
Here's what I've been able to reconstruct of the song list so far:
1.samba de uma nota só
2.doralice
3.ave maria no morro
4.wave
5.pra que discutir com madame
6.caminhos cruzados
7.corcovado
8.bolinha da papel
9.aos pés da cruz
10.sandália de prata (Isto Aqui O Que É?)
11.eclipse
12.o pato
13.retrato em branco e preto
14.estate
15.morena boca de ouro
16.??? another ballad in spanish???- "la passano?"
17.vivo sonhando
18.tim tim por tim tim
19.meditação
20.não vou pra casa
encore set1-
21.saudades da bahia
22.o amor em paz
23.a felicidade
24.desafinado
25.izuara
26. instrumental ???
27. ???
28.chega de saudade
29.garota de ipanema
encore set2-
30.rosa morena
31.insensatez
32.da cor do pecado
33.samba da minha terra
34.??? "carnaval do vitória"???
35.pra machucar meu coracao
-reg
NuBossa
Thanks for the list. One of the instrumentals he did was his own "Abracao do
Bonfa" (?), on which he played only chords (no single notes). There was one
tune (can't remember which) where he used a delayed rhythm I've never heard him
play before -- played the chord on "1" then no sound again until "a" as in
(1-e-and-a) if that makes sense. The man does so much with so little, such
subtle variations.
Tom
Night
Thanks reg for the list
you did that by memories or you wrote it at the show :-)))
vn the order look OK exept for wave I was sure it was more at the end
but you are surely wright
When a lot of people were asking songs
I asked for aquarela do brasil but he did'nt do it
I think it's at this time, after "um abraçao do bonfo"
that a lot of people were asking a lot of songs
he did a big smile, and he played a lot that nobody knows :-))))
you are wright Tom for "um abraçao do bonfo"
he did'nt do the singles note
you talk like a guitar player, do you play that song ??
me I can't, I did'nt find the chords
for the other songs you where talkin, I notice me to
a song with a new beat ( I think it's what you explain )
he was doing a delay after a bass, like a soft punch but alone
does anybody knows how many peoples was there
surely more than 2 thousand ???
it was not sold out but almost full
but I do not know how many seats at that place
Thanks
Louis
Reg Schwager
> One of the instrumentals he did was his own "Abracao do
> Bonfa" (?), on which he played only chords (no single notes).
Alright Tom! That's #26. Three to go.
I was scrawling little phonetic snippets of lyrics in the dark because
I'm not good with song titles in Portuguese. I know I've heard #27
before. It was a samba and had something like "não maltrata esse
pretinho" in it. Any ideas?
-reg
Night
wrote:
I can't find out which song it was
Thanks for the links Reg
I read the article about Joao in paris
he did the song "Que reste-t-il de nos amours ?"
I was sure that he would tried it in Montreal but he did'nt
I read in "La Presse" a bad little article about the show in Montreal
the guy was telling the good and bad shows
For him the Joao's show was the worst of the festival
He was talking about the hour and a half late
the fact that Joao is an "has been" and a "Prima dona"
he said that Joao is a "juke box for bossanophile"
I am surely a bossanophile :-)))))
and he surely hate bossa
Bye
Louis
http://www3.sympatico.ca/louis.briand/accueil.html
NuBossa
>I read in "La Presse" a bad little article about the show in Montreal
>the guy was telling the good and bad shows
>For him the Joao's show was the worst of the festival
>He was talking about the hour and a half late
>the fact that Joao is an "has been" and a "Prima dona"
>he said that Joao is a "juke box for bossanophile"
>
>I am surely a bossanophile :-)))))
Me too and proud of it! But Joao is clearly not for everyone. I was amazed at
how many people left long before the show ended, which was fine with me since
it opened a spot nearer the stage ;-)
Off topic: Did anyone catch the Djangoesque Robin Nolan Trio? Or Diane
Nalini (almost on topic as she did a Chico tune "Carolina")?
Tom
NuBossa
>you are wright Tom for "um abraçao do bonfo" he did'nt do the singles note
>you talk like a guitar player, do you play that song ?? me I can't, I did'nt
find the chords
No, I don't play it either but I seem to recall someone posting here a while
back about playing this tune. Maybe you can search dejanews because I believe
someone found the chords.
Tom
Reg Schwager
The review in O Globo of JG's Paris concert last night
<http://oglobo.globo.com/musica/579366.htm> has solved #27:
"Preconceito, o velho samba anti-racista (O coração não tem cor...) de
Wilson Batista e Marino Pinto, foi recriado como nunca à maneira do
ídolo de João, Orlando Silva: apesar do timbre diferente e do
quase-dó-de-peito de Orlando em João virar uma quase-fala, a divisão
rítmica inventiva do cantor das multidões (o alongamento de certas
frases musicais, a síncope de outras) está cada vez mais presente em
seu discípulo de voz voluntariamente contida (e com nuances de timbre
cada vez mais sutis)."
> I read in "La Presse" a bad little article about the show in Montreal
> the guy was telling the good and bad shows
Oh well. That's his loss. In the Gazette's "best of the fest"
article T'Cha Dunlevy had this to say:
"Joao Gilberto, July 5 at Salle Wilfrid Pelletier of Place des Arts.
Seventy years old and he could still steal your girlfriend. A serene
Gilberto sang his bossa-nova brilliance like only he can. Intimate and
a privilege to witness."
<http://montreal.canada.com/montreal/features/jazzfest/pages/010709/5079320.html>
A "privilege to witness" sums it up nicely, in my opinion.
-reg
Night
Schwager) wrote:
Thanks for that article, I checked it but I just understand a little
bit of portuguese, :-(((
they talk about the songs Baisers volés, so he did 2 french songs ???
Tom I did not see the peoples leaving, I was in the fifth row lucky me
But it's good for you, like that you found a better spot :-)))
For the articles in the gazette it's better than La presse
in the journal de Montréal the article was nice to
even if the guy just like the songs of the Getz-Gilberto album
he said that Joao did almost all those songs, and for the rest
it looks like good songs and that peoples were happy to be there
Bye
Louis
Night
wrote:
>I was there too. Great concert!
Hi reg
for the 16 in spanish
a friend told me that the song was Una mujer from the Joao album
Bye
Louis
Reg Schwager
> Hi reg
>
> for the 16 in spanish
> a friend told me that the song was Una mujer from the Joao album
Louis:
Thanks!
-reg
Reg Schwager
> There was one
> tune (can't remember which) where he used a delayed rhythm I've never heard him
> play before -- played the chord on "1" then no sound again until "a" as in
> (1-e-and-a) if that makes sense. The man does so much with so little, such
> subtle variations.
I didn't notice this at the concert, but I just came across it
listening to "Curare" on the "João Gilberto Prado Pereira de Oliveira"
CD. He starts out playing a traditional samba canção rhythm -- i.e.
the bass note (thumb) on 1 and 2; the chords (fingers) on the "e"s and
the "a"s of 1-e-and-a and 2-e-and-a. At about 1 min. 30 sec. he goes
into the variation you've described above. I guess it's a sort of
distillation of the figure. Very cool.
-reg
Night
Schwager) wrote:
Reg and Tom you're starting to confuse me with those 1-e-and-a :-))))
me usually I count 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and :-))))
Did I understand ok if I say that the and or your 1-e-and-a
is the same as my 2
I can't check with the Curare example, I don't have that cd :-(((
On my beat of samba the bass arrive on the 1 ---- 3
what you are talking about is that at the middle song he starts to do
the chords on the 1 ----- 3 ???
I hope my english is good enough for technicals talking :-))))
Bye
Louis
NuBossa
>I didn't notice this at the concert, but I just came across it
>listening to "Curare" on the "João Gilberto Prado Pereira de Oliveira"
>CD. He starts out playing a traditional samba canção rhythm -- i.e.
>the bass note (thumb) on 1 and 2; the chords (fingers) on the "e"s and
>the "a"s of 1-e-and-a and 2-e-and-a. At about 1 min. 30 sec. he goes
>into the variation you've described above. I guess it's a sort of
>distillation of the figure. Very cool.
>
>-reg
That is cool. I don't have that cd or the song but I'll have to look for it
(is it a compilation or an original release?). That's interesting what you
describe as a samba cancao rhythm -- I hear that all the time but never knew
what samba cancao was until you explained it. Thanks!
Off topic: I had my hands on a very inexpensive ($7) Joao cd called "Besame
Mucho" but wasn't sure if it was a compilation of other albums or not. Does
anyone know?
Tom
NuBossa
Your english is fine for the job! The confusion is that Reg and I are counting
the music in 2/4 and you are counting it in 4/4. From what I understand, the
Brasilians usually think in 2. So our (1-e-and-a) is your (1-and-2-and). In
other words, we are counting in 16th notes and you are counting in 8th notes.
Does that make any sense? Using your way of counting, the bass should come on
1 and 3 as you say.
So, with the Joao rhythm we're talking about, using your way of counting, the
rest of the chord comes on the "and" after 2; and again on the "and" after 4
(with the bass hitting on beats 1 and 3). Does that help?
Tom
Reg Schwager
> Reg and Tom you're starting to confuse me with those 1-e-and-a :-))))
>
> me usually I count 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and :-))))
>
> Did I understand ok if I say that the and or your 1-e-and-a
> is the same as my 2
That's right.
> I can't check with the Curare example, I don't have that cd :-(((
I may have an extra copy. Send me an email if you're interested.
> On my beat of samba the bass arrive on the 1 ---- 3
> what you are talking about is that at the middle song he starts to do
> the chords on the 1 ----- 3 ???
With 4 beats in the bar, the chords would come on the "and" after 2
and the "and" after 4.
(B = bass note, C = chord)
samba-canção:
1 e & a 2 e & a (in "2")
B C C B C C
1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & (in "4")
JG's distilled version:
1 e & a 2 e & a (in "2")
B C B C
1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & (in "4")
I've also heard this variation somewhere:
1 e & a 2 e & a (in "2")
B C B C
1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & (in "4")
(I hope this lines up properly. You may need to use a proportional
font)
I do think that it's worth trying to feel these rhythms in "2" (2
beats to the bar) rather than in "4" (4 beats to the bar). Many jazz
players (myself included) tend to play samba and bossa nova with a "4"
feeling but apparently this is considered quite a "faux pas".
-reg
Night
Thanks it's clear now
not easy to do but I will try :-)))
here's a site with some beat on guitar
in the samba the exercise No3 look the same at the begining
http://www.multimania.com/bossa/
for E luxo so I play
1 bass and chords
2. chords
3. bass
and chords
4 ------
but if I look on the site it's a bossa No1
It's just for the speed
For bossa I'm ok but samba is not easy
I'm workink on Tin tin por tin tin :-)))
For the cd Tom I never heard of it
maybe it's a cd like desafinado produced by a spanish company
desafinado is 20 songs of the 38 songs of the legendary
is there a sombrero in the logo of the disc company
it's the company saludos amigos
Night
Hello Tom
if reg said
the bass note (thumb) on 1 and 2; the chords (fingers) on the "e"s and
the "a"s of 1-e-and-a and 2-e-and-a.
That mean more like that for me
bass on 1 3
the chords on the and after 1 2 3 4
like that
1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and
B Ch Ch B Ch Ch
is it ok ??
it sound samba :-))))
thanks
Louis
NuBossa
>if reg said
>the bass note (thumb) on 1 and 2; the chords (fingers) on the "e"s and
>the "a"s of 1-e-and-a and 2-e-and-a.
>
>That mean more like that for me
>
>bass on 1 3
>
>the chords on the and after 1 2 3 4
>
>like that
>
>1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and
>B Ch Ch B Ch Ch
>
>is it ok ??
>it sound samba :-))))
Yes, you're playing the samba cancao rhythm that Reg mentioned. No wonder it
sounds like samba!
Tom
Gregory O. Hjelmstad
> for E luxo so I play
>
> 1 bass and chords
> 2. chords
> 3. bass
> and chords
> 4 ------
>
You're right... you're playing the most common Bossa rhythm. A great book that
describes different Samba, Bossa, Choro etc. rhythms is "The Brazilian Guitar Book"
by Nelson Faria... it comes with a CD and has hundreds of exercises. It really
helped me.
I also came across this file on the web:
http://www.jazznsamba.com/guitar.htm
It does a pretty nice job.
Carlos
This is "Pra Que Discutir Com Madame" (Why Argue With Madam) written
by Haroldo Barbosa, a put on people who thought samba belonged to
lower social and cultural strata -- and that was partly true until BN
took over in the 60's. In his Montreux recording of this song João
scats a classical (Chopin's Fifth Symphony, I guess) at the
introduction to better ilustrate the assertion. Got the point?
Carlos
Daniella Thompson
> they talk about the songs Baisers volés, so he did 2 french songs ???
No. Only one. "Baisers volés" is not a song but part of the lyrics in
Charles Trenet's song "Que Reste-t-il de Nos Amours." It was also the
title of a film by François Truffaut.
DT
Daniella Thompson
> This is "Pra Que Discutir Com Madame" (Why Argue With Madam) written
> by Haroldo Barbosa, a put on people who thought samba belonged to
> lower social and cultural strata
Actually, the Madame in question was a specific woman -- a famous music
critic who hated samba. I believe her pen name was MAG or something similar.
DT
Carlos
Ooops... tongue-in-mouth, I made a mistake. Should have checked
better. Can't trust my mind anymore... I mistakingly referred to
another song while the right one is "Preconceito" (by the same
composer). Sorry.
Carlos
Night
Thanks Daniella
I was thinking that because I have a song on mp3
called "Baisers" a french bossa by Viktor Lazlo
a belgium female singer
In the words there's a part where she sings Baisers volés
thanks
Louis
Reg Schwager
> another song while the right one is "Preconceito" (by the same
> composer).
Carlos,
Thanks for for digging into your memory banks for this. I think I've
identified all but one of the songs that JG performed in Montreal.
The remaining mystery is #34. Any ideas? It included something that
sounded like "carnaval do vitória" in the lyric. I'll paste the set
list below.
-reg
---------------
João Gilberto in Montreal, July 5, 2001
1.samba de uma nota só
2.doralice
3.ave maria no morro
4.wave
5.pra que discutir com madame
6.caminhos cruzados
7.cocovado
8.bolinha da papel
9.aos pés da cruz
10.sandália de prata (Isto Aqui O Que É?)
11.eclipse
12.o pato
13.retrato em branco e preto
14.estate
15.morena boca de ouro
16.una mujer
17.vivo sonhando
18.tim tim por tim tim
19.meditação
20.não vou pra casa
encore set1 -
21.saudades da bahia
22.o amor em paz
23.a felicidade
24.desafinado
25.izuara
26.un abraço no bonfá
27.preconceito
Daniella Thompson
> I think I've
> identified all but one of the songs that JG performed in Montreal.
> The remaining mystery is #34. Any ideas? It included something that
> sounded like "carnaval do vitória" in the lyric.
"Carnaval da vitória" is a frevo by the pernambucano Nelson Ferreira (1902-1976).
DT
Daniella Thompson
> > This is "Pra Que Discutir Com Madame" (Why Argue With Madam) written
> > by Haroldo Barbosa
and then:
> I mistakingly referred to
> another song while the right one is "Preconceito" (by the same
> composer).
Not by the same composer.
"Pra Que Discutir Com Madame" is by Janet de Almeida & Haroldo Barbosa.
"Preconceito" is by Wilson Batista & Marino Pinto.
João recorded both on 'Live in Montreux' -- "Preconceito" obviously as a
tribute to Orlando Silva's recording.
DT
Carlos
Daniella,
You are absolutely correct and my foot, by the way, tastes great...
Incidentally, in a second thought I also think that the classical
melody Joao scats in that performance may not be Chopin's afterall but
Beethoven's Fifth, am I right?
Carlos
Daniella Thompson
> Incidentally, in a second thought I also think that the classical
> melody Joao scats in that performance may not be Chopin's afterall but
> Beethoven's Fifth, am I right?
Do you really think that scat is classical music?
Frankly, that never occurred to me.
DT
Carlos
Daniella,
Yes, I think his reference was NOT merely coincidental (over 8 bars)
but a rather incidental reference to classical music -- pretty much
apropos the lyrics of this song, that is, if it was not really in the
original chords.
João scats exactly all the same notes 4 times at the end of the second
verse (right after Pra Que Discutir Com Madame) and once at the end of
his solo performance at the Montreux Festival. I think it helps to
make a nice parody with the lyrics!
Check it up in an English version of the lyrics by Arto Lindsay (with
a little help) that comes in a little booklet with the CD. The (*)
sign indicates where and how many times he interpolated the classical
tune:
Why Argue With Madam (Janet de Almeida/Haroldo Barbosa)
Madam says the race wont improve
That life will get worse because of the samba
Madam says that samba is sinful
That the samba, poor thing, should be put to an end
Madam says the samba means cachaça
Cross-breeding and race mixing
Madam says the democratic samba
Is cheap music with no value at all
Lets put an end to the samba
Madam doesnt like anyone doing samba
She keeps saying samba is a shame
So, why bother to argue with Madam? (****)
Next Carnival, when we compete,
Our folks from the slum will sing opera
And squeezed in the crowd on the avenue
You will see us giving recitals
Madam has one screw too few
She just spits poison, my God, how terrible!
The democratic, Brazilian samba
Really Brazilian -- is the one with true value (*)
I have heard this performance many times over the past three decades
or so, and always wondered. I have also heard this classical tune a
few times elsewhere on records and a few classical concerts I rarely
attend. And it still intrigues me.
Will some classical buff, PLEASE, take me out of this agony???
Carlos
Daniella Thompson
> Yes, I think his reference was NOT merely coincidental (over 8 bars)
> but a rather incidental reference to classical music -- pretty much
> apropos the lyrics of this song, that is, if it was not really in the
> original chords.
Humming that part slowly, it does sound like classical music, although I
couldn't say if it's familiar because it's famous or because I've heard
JG sing it so many times.
In the meantime, with Egídio's help, I've resurrected the name of the
cultural activist and music critic who inspired Haroldo Barbosa to write
the song.
Magdala da Gama Oliveira (aka Mag) wrote in Diário de Notícias, Fon-Fon,
etc., and according to Sérgio Cabral, she had a "postura antipática" to
radio and popular music.
Yet here's an article of hers about 'O Milagre do Tango':
<http://www.avelharia.hpg.com.br/FIGURAS/Atual4/IMAGENS/REVISTAFON28/Fon19213.jpg>
DT
Egidio Leitao
> in a second thought I also think that the classical
> melody Joao scats in that performance may not be Chopin's afterall but
> Beethoven's Fifth, am I right?
Try Tchaikovsky 1st Piano Concerto. I think that's what you're hearing.
--
Egídio
Vai beber no meu corpo a mais pura água pra morrer nos desertos da paixão.
(Fátima Guedes)
Daniella Thompson
> Try Tchaikovsky 1st Piano Concerto. I think that's what you're hearing.
Right on! The first movement, about 50 sec. from the beginning.
Thanks, Egídio.
DT
Night
<dt10...@pop.onemain.com> wrote:
>Carlos,
>
>> Incidentally, in a second thought I also think that the classical
>> melody Joao scats in that performance may not be Chopin's afterall but
>> Beethoven's Fifth, am I right?
I never think it was a classical music
for me it's an improvisation like he did in other songs
like, Meditaçao, the end of Doralice etc.
but if it's a classical melody, it's not the fifth of beethoven
LB
Night
Opsss I do not have that concerto
I never think it was a part of classic
but like you said if it come from a real story
of a madam who did'nt like samba
(Thanks for the link with the article)
it's a good humor to put a classical part :-)))
Louis
>
>DT
Egidio Leitao
<louis....@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> but like you said if it come from a real story
> of a madam who did'nt like samba
The humor is most definitely intentional on JG's part, I'd bet. The lady
did not like popular music. I'm sure that even Janet de Almeida & Haroldo
Barbosa would appreciate the sarcasm in that scatting. A master's touch, no
doubt.
--
Egídio
Amar nunca foi conjugar só o verbo sofrer.
(Gonzaguinha)
Carlos
> Carlos said:
>
> > in a second thought I also think that the classical
> > melody Joao scats in that performance may not be Chopin's afterall but
> > Beethoven's Fifth, am I right?
>
> Try Tchaikovsky 1st Piano Concerto. I think that's what you're hearing.
You got it, thanks a lot, Egidio. I've checked it up and was able to
identify that nice passage. Now I can rest in peace :-))
Carlos
Carlos
Daniela,
She prefers the tango. Can't argue with that. It's another "praia".
When was it published? By the style and spelling it is ancient
Brazilian Portuguese.
Carlos
Daniella Thompson
> When was it published? By the style and spelling it is ancient
> Brazilian Portuguese.
In 1928, I believe.
The magazine was founded in 1907 and ceased publication sometime in the '50s.
DT
Carlos
Daniela,
Thanks for the information. Quite interesting.
Carlos