Eu Sambo Mesmo
Chrystianne Hayes
entitled "Joao", 1991 Polygram do Brasil Ltda. on a Veuve label.
I've been listening to it about 20 times today to work out how it's figured,
as there isn't a middle 8 really and every time it starts a new verse the
chords go up a semitone like in "Mack the Knife". I don't think I could
even attempt playing it, or singing it - can anyone ?? !!!!! I'm still
trying to figure out the bass line. Still, at least it ends on the tonic
for a change :-)
Written by someone called Janet de Almeida, is this an old song re-arranged
by Joao or is it a (newish) one written especially for him ? It's an
orchestral nightmare too, I wouldn't be brave enough to conduct something as
complex as this - but I love it.
Chrystianne Hayes
Portsmouth, England
Company Secretary
Victory Fishing Ltd
ICQ 15719334
Daniella Thompson
> There is a superb track called Eu Sambo Mesmo from Joao Gilberto's simply
> entitled "Joao", 1991 Polygram do Brasil Ltda. on a Verve label.
> [...]
> Written by someone called Janet de Almeida, is this an old song re-arranged
> by Joao or is it a (newish) one written especially for him ?
Janet de Almeida (who was a man) composed during the '40s. He collaborated with
Haroldo Barbosa on the sambas "Eu Qureo um Samba" and "Pra Que Discutir Com
Madame" -- both also recorded by João years later.
Daniella
Daniella Thompson
Daniella
Carlos P. Falcão
"Chrystianne Hayes" <victory...@virgin.net> wrote:
> There is a superb track called Eu Sambo Mesmo from Joao Gilberto's
simply
>
> I've been listening to it about 20 times today to work out how it's
figured,
> as there isn't a middle 8 really and every time it starts a new verse
the
> chords go up a semitone like in "Mack the Knife". I don't think I
could
> even attempt playing it, or singing it - can anyone ?? !!!!! I'm
still
> trying to figure out the bass line. Still, at least it ends on the
tonic
> for a change :-)
>
arranged
> orchestral nightmare too, I wouldn't be brave enough to conduct
something as
> complex as this - but I love it.
>
> Chrystianne Hayes
> Portsmouth, England
> Company Secretary
> Victory Fishing Ltd
> ICQ 15719334
>
all sound brand new to me like I never heard them before. He has been
re-reading old tunes since his first LP, and he does it now more than
ever before to include songs in English, Spanish, French and Italian --
all with his very personal accent, of course.
Arto Lindsay makes a poignant comment in this CD's liner which is worth
quoting:
"João's choice of songs to sing is always telling. His knowledge is
vast but he doesn't invest in the obscure for its own sake. He doesn't
illuminate a song's hidden side as much as he brings more light to bear
on what is already clear. Nor is he above choosing a song to make a
point, but his renditions are in themselves devoid of polemical
sentiment. Once again in his restraint he is most devastating."
Carlos
Tu pisavas nos astros, distraida
Orestes Barbosa
--
Brazilian Portuguese<>American English
Translator
Miami - USA
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Chrystianne Hayes
--
Chrystianne Hayes
Company Secretary
Victory Fishing Ltd
ICQ 15719334
Carlos P. Falcão <bras...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:7r70gn$d66$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Carlos P. Falcão
> Yes Carlos I read that !
I certainly figured you did. But other folks here at the forum probably
didn't and I thought it would be interesting to let them know.
Cheers.
Carlos
Uma mulher que é como a própria lua
Tão linda que só espalha sofrimento
Tão chea de pudor que vive nua
Vinicius de Morais
> >
> >
Ashok
>
>
>Janet de Almeida (who was a man)
>Daniella
Then what happened?
Ashok
Daniella Thompson
> >Janet de Almeida (who was a man)
>
> Then what happened?
Nothing. He was a man, as opposed to 'he used to be a man'; he was always a
man, and Janet was his name. Apparently the name Janet doesn't have the same
connotation in Portuguese as it does in English.
I wish I could tell you more about him, but there's no information available in
my library. Janet de Almeida's principal songwriting partner, Haroldo Barbosa,
was a journalist as well as a prolific songwriter (with other notable
partners). Barbosa was the brother of Evaldo Ruy, another journalist and
distinguished lyricist (he collaborated on some of Custódio Mesquita's greatest
songs). Ruy was also Elizeth Cardoso's lover until he committed suicide in
1954. Elizeth's recorded repertoire includes quite a few of Barbosa's and Ruy's
songs.
But I'm digressing. The songs that Janet de Almeida wrote were performed in the
'40s primarily by vocal groups, and they're known to us today thanks to João
Gilberto. Now things have begun to reverse themselves just a tad with the vocal
group Arranco recording "Pra Que Discutir Com Madame" not because it used to be
a group vehicle in the '40s but because everyone knows João's version, and
Arranco wanted to turn it 'from a bossa nova to a samba' (this is according to
them -- I don't classify João's version as a bossa nova, and neither would
João).
Daniella
Daniella Thompson
> (If you wish to go further back into the backround and earlier forms also
> check out Bretania singing the songs of Noel Rosa. She captures it so
> well.)
I think you mean Bethânia.
Better yet, go to the source: Aracy de Almeida and Noel himself.
Daniella
SDN...@webtv.net
Brasil, mas nunca me esquesie de la nem meus amigo eas musicas, daquella
MJB e a Jovem Guarda Brasileira. Tinja a oportunidade de conyesier uns
membros della na epocade 1966 ate 1969. Ja sei que sem ter a pratcica
mina lingua dO Portuguese tem faltas graves mas espero que ainda da para
mim entender. Amo do pais de Deus e o povo im que elle bem touquo.
Sorry if you don't speak portuguese I was simply passing on my reguard
to those of you discovering and admiring the works of a truely gifted
people. When God made man he graced the brazilians with many special
talents. To more fully understand the depth breath and scope of the
music and the inuindos of the words you must learn the language as they
are one in the same. I saute those of you who help keep it viberantly
alive, both as it was and as it is becomming . I hope to visit again as
time allows. I still remember suave nights of great music with such
friends at the internatioal music festivals and the precieding brazilian
competitions of that time. God is great, and so are his creations, one
of which is the soul of Brazil. I was blessed to have been there. (If
you wish to go further back into the backround and earlier forms also
check out Bretania singing the songs of Noel Rosa. She captures it so
Carlos P. Falcão
da...@jps.net wrote:
> SDN...@webtv.net wrote:
>
> > (If you wish to go further back into the backround and earlier
forms also
> > check out Bretania singing the songs of Noel Rosa. She captures it
so
> > well.)
>
> Better yet, go to the source: Aracy de Almeida and Noel himself.
>
> Daniella
Aracy de Almeida? May she rest in peace but she was a lousy singer, out
of tune, a terrible voice, poor swing, lesbian (oops... should I say
that?) and ugly. She was just hanging around in that group at the time
and Noel had no choice, poor Noel... Check Leila Pinheiro, a great
singer, piano and guitar player, composer, arranger, band leader, you
name it at http://www.leilapinheiro.com
Carlos
Agora eu era o herói / E o meu cavalo só falava Inglês
Chico Buarque
Daniella Thompson
> Aracy de Almeida? May she rest in peace but she was a lousy singer, out
> of tune, a terrible voice, poor swing, lesbian (oops... should I say
> that?) and ugly. She was just hanging around in that group at the time
> and Noel had no choice, poor Noel...
Watch out Carlos, your prejudices are showing...
I won't enter into another dispute with you. If you can't recognize that Aracy
was a great singer, it's not Aracy's fault.
BTW, Noel did have a choice -- he had many.
Daniella
Ashok
>
>Aracy de Almeida? May she rest in peace but she was a lousy singer, out
>of tune, a terrible voice, poor swing, lesbian (oops... should I say
>that?) and ugly. She was just hanging around in that group at the time
>singer, piano and guitar player, composer, arranger, band leader, you
>name it at http://www.leilapinheiro.com
>
>Carlos
>
>Translator
Something awefully wrong with your musical taste. How can you
like Leila Pinheiro? Let me list the major defects in her
music: she is not a blonde; she doesn't have blue eyes; she
is not even a WASP. And for God's sake, she is a woman.
Ashok
Daniella Thompson
> Something awefully wrong with your musical taste. How can you
> like Leila Pinheiro? Let me list the major defects in her
> music: she is not a blonde; she doesn't have blue eyes; she
> is not even a WASP. And for God's sake, she is a woman.
Well said, Ashok (although a tad on the subtle side...). ;-)
Daniella
Daniella Thompson
> Sorry to disagree but in due fairness I think I should express my
> opinion.
Express away. Freedom of speech reigns here. as long as you don't present your
opinions as the god-given truth, which they clearly aren't.
> And I know lots of people in Brazil that think the same way as
> I do.
I may know even more people in Brazil who think otherwise. BTW, do you have any
Aracy de Almeida recordings? I have lots.
> As to Noel's choice, I also disagree. Much before Cabral wrote
> anything about him,
Cabral never wrote a book about Noel.
> as a kid I used to attend presentations by
> Almirante (his first and best biographer)
I happen to own a copy of Almirante's book 'No Tempo de Noel Rosa' and also the
massive and much more complete and extensive 533-page 'Noel Rosa, Uma Biografia'
by João Máximo and Carlos Didier -- hands down the best book ever written about
Noel. So I can tell you without hesitation that you don't know what you're
talking about.
> Up to two decades ago, the profession of singer or even musician wasn't
> considered appropriate to any any young men or women from "good families".
You're generalizing. While that attitude was common enough in those days, it
doesn't explain why a number of 'respectable' people became popular singers.
The extreme example is Mário Reis, a wealthy and elegant high-society man, a grã
fino, who studied guitar with Sinhô, was his best interpreter, revolutionized
the art of popular singing (and especially samba singing) in Brazil, influenced
generations of singers to come (including João Gilberto), and was also one of
Noel Rosa's major interpreters.
In the case of Noel's female singers, you conveniently overlooked another
constant interpreter of his, Marília Batista, who came from a very good
middle-class family. Top female stars who recorded Noel's songs were Carmen and
Aurora Miranda -- hardly the dregs of the streets. Noel also gave a song to
Elizeth Cardoso at the beginning of her career -- an incredible and unexpected
honor for the fledgling singer.
Noel was an extremely popular composer and had his pick of singers -- female or
male. The male singers consisted of the cream of the profession as well: in
addition to Mário Reis there were Francisco Alves, Orlando Silva, Silvio Caldas,
João de Barro, Luiz Barbosa, Almirante, Lamartine Babo, and on it goes.
But don't take my word for it; you can hear those singers with your own ears on
Revivendo's CDs that reissued original recordings of Noel's songs from the
1930s.
In this context, let's hear from Noel himself on the subject of female singers.
In an interview he gave to Folha de Minas on 16 February 1935, he was asked:
"Qual a melhor intérprete de sua música?"
Noel's reply:
"Aracy de Almeida é, na minha opinião, a pessoa que interpreta com exatidão o
que produzo."
Daniella
P.S. Aracy also was one of Ary Barroso's favorite singers, and with good
reason: her recording of "Camisa Amarela" is one of the brightest jewels in the
Brazilian repertoire. It was to Aracy that Ary gave "Aquarela do Brasil" to
record first. That recording never took place because Ary insisted on an
orchestral arrangement, and Mr. Evans, artistic director of Victor, was willing
to commit only a conjunto regional. So Odeon got "Aquarela" instead, and what
went down to posterity was Francisco Alves' recording with Radamés Gnattali's
orchestral arrangement.
Daniella Thompson
> And who told you me like blondes, pale face?
That's a joke and a half. But you wouldn't understand...
> Have any of you ever heard Aracy de Almeida?
I make a point of buying any Aracy recording I can find, in addition to having
among my friends some of the most important music collectors and researchers in
Brazil who are all too happy to make me copies of hard-to-find recordings. I
suspect that I heard a lot more of Aracy than you have.
More facts and less patronizing would be much more convincing.
Daniella
Carlos P. Falcão
da...@jps.net wrote:
> Carlos P. Falcão wrote:
>
> > Aracy de Almeida? May she rest in peace but she was a lousy singer,
out
> > of tune, a terrible voice, poor swing, lesbian (oops... should I say
> > that?) and ugly. She was just hanging around in that group at the
time
> > and Noel had no choice, poor Noel...
>
> I won't enter into another dispute with you. If you can't recognize
that Aracy
> was a great singer, it's not Aracy's fault.
>
> BTW, Noel did have a choice -- he had many.
>
> Daniella
>
I do. As to Noel's choice, I also disagree. Much before Cabral wrote
anything about him, as a kid I used to attend presentations by
Almirante (his first and best biographer) at AAVI--Associação Atlética
Vila Isabel of which my father was one of the founders. Up to two
decades ago, the profession of singer or even musician wasn't
families". The prejudice is not mine. It WAS theirs, and of course, I
disagree. Fortunately, such a prejudice no longer exists.
Best,
Carlos
Maria / O teu nome principia / Na palma da minha mão
Ary Barroso
Carlos P. Falcão
ADhar...@WorldBank.Org (Ashok) wrote:
> In article <7rpvi9$moc$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, bras...@aol.com says...
> >
out
> >of tune, a terrible voice, poor swing, lesbian (oops... should I say
> >that?) and ugly. She was just hanging around in that group at the
time
> >singer, piano and guitar player, composer, arranger, band leader, you
> >name it at http://www.leilapinheiro.com
> >
> >Carlos
> >
> >
>
> like Leila Pinheiro? Let me list the major defects in her
> music: she is not a blonde; she doesn't have blue eyes; she
> is not even a WASP. And for God's sake, she is a woman.
>
And who told you me like blondes, pale face? It seems so easy to become
a blonde... thanks to Clairol. Now, according to the CD cover I have
("Isso é Bossa Nova") her eyes are very blue, Sir. With that voice and
musicality she could be ugly as a witch and I still would be crazy
about her. My wife here by my side who happens to agree 250% with my
opinion in this issue, asked me to add this question to you, folk: Have
any of you ever heard Aracy de Almeida?
--
Eduardo Pimenta
>
>
>
to having
> among my friends some of the most important music collectors and
researchers in
> Brazil who are all too happy to make me copies of hard-to-find
recordings. I
> suspect that I heard a lot more of Aracy than you have.
>
> More facts and less patronizing would be much more convincing.
>
> Daniella
>
>
remember much more of Aracy as a juror of a TV show by Silvio Santos,
in which she appears to be no more than a shadow of what she once was.
This may be the reason of such prejudice. I must admit I've never
heard Aracy singing (my mother much probably has, but I haven't),
and it's easy to be overwhelmed by prejudice from what I remember
of that 70's show (no pun intended).
Best regards,
Eduardo Pimenta.
Carlos P. Falcão
da...@jps.net wrote:
> Carlos Falcão wrote:
>
> > Sorry to disagree but in due fairness I think I should express my
> > opinion.
>
present your
> opinions as the god-given truth, which they clearly aren't.
Gee ... here goes my shrink busy again trying to find out where the
hell I lost I lost my childhood somewhere between Tegucigalpa and
Bangladesh. Sin enbargo, creo que hasta olvidé mi Portugues...
As far as I can remember -- at least since I was 3 years old --, I used
to listen ALL of the singers you mentioned, as well as many others --
Silvio Caldas (my idol, then), Nelson Gonçalves, Orlando Silva, Jorge
Goulart, Nora Ney, Linda and Dircinha Batista, Carlos Galhardo, Cyro
Monteiro, Dalva de Oliveira, Isaurinha Garcia, Emilinha Borba, Marlene,
Ângela Maria and so on -- LIVE on radio, shows, balls or on 78rpm
records. My late brother, Wilson F. Falcao, a chemical engineer by
profession, was also a composer and had one of his songs recorded by
Carmem Miranda (please check, I can't recall its title) and several
others by many singers including Cauby Peixoto ("Superstição", CIRCA
1955). I also belonged to many local musical groups and we used to
listen and discuss about them extensively. So, what I am saying is
first hand and FACTUAL. It is not by hearsay or someone else's report.
My opinion is based on my long and direct personal experience of over
30 years in that area. And I am pretty much updated with what's
happening down there.
I happen to be of the opinion that Aracy de Almeida -- and may God
bless her -- stinks as a singer and sambista. My wife is a bit more
radical: She thinks Aracy stinks in virtually all aspects. I disagree
to that extent -- but that's her opinion.
I won't argue with the fact that Aracy had an important role as a
pioneer and may be a collector's item, but that's not what I was
talking about.
And since all of the subjects of this dispute pertain to the Brazilian
(more specifically, the Carioca) culture and a thorough understanding
of Brazilian Portuguese is absolutely essential -- though not
necessarily sufficient -- to address the manner in an intelligent
fashion, I will reserve the right to only respond to queries addressed
to me in Brazilian Portuguese.
Carlos
Quem é você / Que não sabe o que diz / Meu Deus do céu / Que palpite
infeliz.
Noel Rosa
Daniella Thompson
> Come to think of it, who has lived in Brazil in the 70-80s may
> remember much more of Aracy as a juror of a TV show by Silvio Santos,
> in which she appears to be no more than a shadow of what she once was.
> This may be the reason of such prejudice.
I believe you've put your finger on the problem. Aracy's long career began in
the '30s, and she was still in great form during the '60s. I have on tape two
albums she made in the '60s. One is called 'O Samba em Pessôa' with the 'Turma
da Vila' (undated), and the other is 'Samba Pede Passagem' (1966), where she
appears alongside Ismael Silva, MPB-4, and the flutist Carlos Poyares. In this
second album, in addition to singing, Aracy tells wonderful stories about Noel
in her very distinct way of speaking. Both albums are outstanding, and she's
the reason for it.
Many of Aracy's classic recordings are now available on CD. Revivendo has
issued a number of them in various compilations (one is devoted to Aracy's and
Mário Reis' recordings of Noel Rosa), and Warner put her and Noel Rosa on a
single 'Mestres da MPB' disc; this in addition to various historic compilations
that feature her in some tracks. Beyond that, the singer Olivia Byington
released a tribute to Aracy called 'A Dama do Encantado' (MP,B), on which she
sings many of Aracy's best known vehicles. The two sound eerily alike.
Daniella
Daniella Thompson
> And since all of the subjects of this dispute pertain to the Brazilian
> (more specifically, the Carioca) culture and a thorough understanding
> of Brazilian Portuguese is absolutely essential -- though not
> necessarily sufficient -- to address the manner in an intelligent
> fashion, I will reserve the right to only respond to queries addressed
> to me in Brazilian Portuguese.
In that case, you have selected the wrong forum in which to participate, as the
overwhelming majority of us are neither Brazilian nor carioca. Furthermore, I
doubt that this arrogant stance of yours will endear you to the sadly
intelligence-deficient and linguistically challenged individuals that we are.
But as far as I'm concerned, it's all to the good. At least I won't have to put
up with your split infinitives any longer.
> Quem é você / Que não sabe o que diz / Meu Deus do céu / Que palpite
> infeliz.
Lots of people were born in Vila Isabel, but only one was Noel Rosa. Quoting
him out of context only creates a boomerang effect which doesn't reflect well on
you.
Daniella
Ricardo
<epim...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> Come to think of it, who has lived in Brazil in the 70-80s may
>remember much more of Aracy as a juror of a TV show by Silvio Santos,
>in which she appears to be no more than a shadow of what she once was.
>This may be the reason of such prejudice.
I am sure this is exactly the reason, at least for people of my (your)
generation.
I will make a note to search for the recordings Daniella suggested in
her reply to you.
Ricardo
Carlos P. Falcão
> [...]
> > Quem é você / Que não sabe o que diz / Meu Deus do céu / Que palpite
> > infeliz.
>
> Lots of people were born in Vila Isabel, but only one was Noel Rosa.
Quoting
> him out of context only creates a boomerang effect which doesn't
reflect well on
> you.
>
> Daniella
That shows how much you know about the subject: nothing. You keep
repeating things you read in books (or you say you read in books) and
totally out of context. Your imperialistic petulance will get its
rebuttal pretty soon as I am too busy right now. I meant queries from
you. And my response will be in Portuguese.
Carlos
Carlos P. Falcão
Carlos P. Falcão <bras...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> > [...]
> > > Quem é você / Que não sabe o que diz / Meu Deus do céu / Que
palpite
> > > infeliz.
> >
> > Lots of people were born in Vila Isabel, but only one was Noel Rosa.
> Quoting
> > him out of context only creates a boomerang effect which doesn't
> reflect well on
> > you.
> >
> > Daniella
Lots of people were born in Vila Isabel, but only one was Noel Rosa.
Quoting him out of context only creates a boomerang effect which
doesn't reflect well on you.
Daniella
That's why in another newsgroup you are known as "Daniella, the
Dement", I have been warned. Well, I don't give a damn. I have put up
for too long with your stupidity and that was enough. You can be as
dement, fake and phony as you wish but I won't let you misguide and
mistreat people who come here to enjoy that warm, harmonious, peaceful
and friendly atmosphere that is so much attached to the Brazilian music
and culture in general.
This is not a group about language, grammar or style. If you want to
make it private, then go ahead and change it to "Gets/Gilberto (Astrud)
Group" or " The Americans Who Brought Bossa Nova to the US", "The
Americans Trying to Understand Samba", or whatever. But as long as it
is in a public site under "Brazilian Music" I won't let you freely
misrepresent things you know nothing about and misguide people in the
name of an authority you don't have, no matter how bitchy you are or
may become. And don't you dare to spam me.
Carlos
>
> That shows how much you know about the subject: nothing. You keep
> repeating things you read in books (or you say you read in books) and
> totally out of context. Your imperialistic petulance will get its
> rebuttal pretty soon as I am too busy right now. I meant queries from
> you. And my response will be in Portuguese.
>
> Carlos
> >
> >
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
>
--
NuBossa
>You keep
>repeating things you read in books (or you say you read in books)
You know, I had a feeling she's been making all this stuff up. Nobody could
know that much! I'll bet even her articles and interviews in Brazzil are a
hoax!
BTW not only are Leila's eyes blue, if you hold the cover up to the light
you'll see that her hair IS blonde!
Tom
Daniella Thompson
> Your imperialistic petulance will get its rebuttal pretty soon as I am too
> busy right now. I meant queries from
> you. And my response will be in Portuguese.
I see you're still delusional. No surprises here.
Never fear: you're the last person in the world to whom I would address any
queries. When I ask questions, I expect accurate facts, and that's not your
department.
As for responses in Portuguese, all I can say is: for your own sake (seeing that
you make a living as a translator), I hope your Portuguese is better than your
English.
And Carlos, don't bother to rebutt. You've already lost, and you're the only
one who doesn't know it.
Daniella
Daniella Thompson
"Carlos P. Falcão" wrote:
> That's why in another newsgroup you are known as "Daniella, the
> Dement", I have been warned.
Really? And which newsgroup is that? I don't post to any other group.
> And don't you dare to spam me.
Why on earth would I want to do that?
By all means, assume the role of knight in shining armor, rescuing the innocent
from my depredations and bringing enlightenment to benighted denizens who
weren't as fortunate as you in their birthplace. But I would strongly suggest
that you do some homework first. At the moment, you're completely unprepared,
and the mere fact of having been born in Vila Isabel is no qualification for
anything.
Daniella
Carlos P. Falcão
Na sua já amplamente reconhecida insanidade mental você insiste em
falar uma besteira após a outra, sem nunca saber o que diz. Você não me
conhece, nunca me viu, não sabe quem eu sou e continua me atacando
virulentamente sem eu nunca ter-lhe dado razão para tal. Não para você
-- que não merece absolutamente nenhuma consideração --, mas para os
que estão aqui meio assustados com mais uma tentativa de linchamento
bem ao estilo USiano --, informo que "não faço traduções para ganhar a
vida" como você, pejorativa e ignorantemente, afirma mais uma vez sem
saber. Sou economista profissional aposentado, 61 anos, trabalho em
tempo parcial em consultoria idiomática e econômica para a minha firma,
Brastrans, em escritório de minha residência na Baía de Biscayne, Miami.
Você parece representar o pior que possa haver na mulher americana:
neurótica, ranzinza, masculinizada e absolutamente sem graça. Aquele
tipo de "coisa" que inspira composições românticas como "The Lady is a
Tramp", ao som da qual casais aqui fazem amor e/ou liquidam-se
mutuamente -- o que acontecer primeiro.
Você pode compilar os dados que quiser mas não entende agora nem nunca
poderá entender absolutamente nada de música brasileira, por absoluta
falta de dois ingredientes básicos: harmonia e sentimento. Aconselho-a
a dedicar melhor seu tempo à apreciação de estilos mais conformes com
sua personalidade: "heavy-metal" ou "hard rock" -- concentrando-se
especialmente naqueles poucos que quebram seus instrumentos e explodem
os estúdios de gravação no final.
E pare de me encher o saco!
Carlos
Joga bosta na Geni / Joga pedra na Geni
Ela é boa de apanhar / Ela é boa de cuspir
Chico Buarque
Ashok
>
>"Carlos P. Falcão" wrote:
>
>
>But as far as I'm concerned, it's all to the good. At least I won't have to put
>up with your split infinitives any longer.
>Daniella
Aah, Mrs Thistlebottom's hobgoblins are still thriving. This one
nearly a century after being consigned to trashbin by Fowler, Esq!
All that's fine. What is not fine, Daniella, is that you are
dissing the StarTrek motto: to boldly split infinitives no one
has split before.
:)
Ashok
Daniella Thompson
> Na sua já amplamente reconhecida insanidade mental você insiste em
> falar uma besteira após a outra, sem nunca saber o que diz.
And on and on, ad nauseam.
It appears that you subscribe to the philosophy of 'if you can't win by fighting
clean, fight dirty.'
For a man of sixty-one, that's truly pathetic, Carlos.
If we had a real debate going on here, I would quote a champion swimmer I know:
"Any stroke, any distance, any time." But you have long ago strayed from the
topic (Aracy de Almeida, remember?) into libelous (and actionable) territory.
That's an area I refuse to enter -- you can have it all for yourself.
Happy now?
Daniella
Daniella Thompson
> Aah, Mrs Thistlebottom's hobgoblins are still thriving. This one
> nearly a century after being consigned to trashbin by Fowler, Esq!
Fowler or no, I dislike the SIs on esthetic grounds. Can you really stand the look
or the sound of one?
> All that's fine. What is not fine, Daniella, is that you are
> dissing the StarTrek motto: to boldly split infinitives no one
> has split before. :)
Not dissing so much as unaware. As you know, I'm sadly ignorant in the matter of
popular Usonian culture.
:-)
Daniella
Ashok
>
>
>Na sua já amplamente reconhecida insanidade mental você insiste em
One needs to know everything that's being launched in order to fully
enjoy an exciting flame war. (Oops. Make it ".. to enjoy fully .."
or ".. fully to enjoy .." or whatever!) Since our
Brazilian Portuguese<>American English Translator
has gone on strike, I was forced to have recourse to the online
translation services, such as they are. For other RMBers in
similar situation as me (Oops! Make it ".. as I".) here's what two
of the translation bots thought Carlos was saying.
Ashok
-----------------
http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/translate?urltext=
gave:
On its already widely recognized mental insanity you insist on saying
a besteira after to another one, without never knowing what she says.
You do not know me, never you saw me, she does not know who I I am
and virulently continues attacking me without I never to have given
ratio to it for such. You do not stop -- that she absolutely does not
deserve no consideration --, but for that here they are half scared
with plus an attempt of upper-class lynching to the style USiano --,
I inform that " I do not make translations to gain the life " as you,
pejorativa and ignorantly, she affirms one more time without knowing.
I am professional economist pensioner, 61 years, work in partial time
in idiomática and economic consultoria for my firm, Brastrans, in
office of my residence in the Bay of Biscayne, Miami.
You seem to represent the worse one that she can have in the American
woman: neurotic, ranzinza, masculinizada and absolutely without favour.
That type of " thing " that inspires romantic compositions as " The Lady
is the Tramp ", to the sound of the which couples makes love and/or is
eliminated here mutuamente -- what to happen first.
You can compile the data that want but do not understand now nor never
will be able to understand nothing of Brazilian music absolutely, for
absolute lack of two basic ingredients: harmony and feeling. I advise
to better dedicate it to it its time to the appreciation of in agreement
styles with its personality: " heavy-metal " or " hard rock " --
concentrating especially in those few that break its instruments and
blow up the studios of writing in the end.
E stops to full me the bag!
Carlos
It plays bosta in the Geni / Plays rock in the Geni
is good of apanhar / It is good of cuspir
Chico Buarque
-----------------
http://www.tranexp.com:2000/InterTran?
came up with:
In its already amply [reconhecida] insanity mental you [insiste]
[em] speak only one absurdity after the another, without never
know the one to he says. You do not me she knows, never me she
saw, no knows who I am & she continues me [atacando]
[virulentamente] without I never have-him given reason about
to as. No about to you -- that doesn't deserves absolutely
neither appreciation --, but about to what [estão] here half
frightened with added an attempt of [linchamento] well the style
[USiano] --, I inform that doesn't" I do translations to earn the
life" I eat you, [pejorativa] & [ignorantemente], she affirms
once more without know. I am economist professional retired, 61
years, I work in time partial [em] consultant [idiomática] &
[econômica] for [minha] firm, [Brastrans], [em] office of
[minha] residence on Bay of A sharp word, [Miami].
You seem render the worst what [possa] have on woman American:
[neurótica], sulky, [masculinizada] & absolutely graceless. That
type of "thing" what [inspira] compositions [românticas] I eat
"[The] [Lady] [is] the [Tramp]", the sound from [qual] you wed
here they do love & /or [liquidam]-if mutually -- the one to
become of first.
You can collect the dice what if he may want but no do you
understand but [nem] never may understand absolutely she swims
of music Brazilian, for absolute lack of two ingredient basic:
harmony & feeling. [Aconselho]-the the dedicate best your time
on the appreciation of styles [mais] as per with she sweats
personality: "[heavy]-metal" or "[hard] [rock]" -- [concentrando]-
if especially in those few what they smash yours instruments &
[explodem] the studios of recording in the end.
& stop of me fill the sack!
[Carlos]
She plays excrement on [Geni] / She plays stone on [Geni]
She is good of grabbing / She is good of spit
[Chico] [Buarque]
-----------------
Daniella Thompson
> One needs to know everything that's being launched in order to fully
> enjoy an exciting flame war. (Oops. Make it ".. to enjoy fully .."
> or ".. fully to enjoy .." or whatever!)
Precious. And even more precious, this:
> I work in time partial [em] consultant [idiomática] &
> [econômica] for [minha] firm, [Brastrans], [em] office of
> [minha] residence on Bay of A sharp word, [Miami].
That finally got the discussion back on a musical track!
Daniella
[the sack filler;-)))]
Carlos P. Falcão
> > enjoy an exciting flame war. (Oops. Make it ".. to enjoy fully .."
> > or ".. fully to enjoy .." or whatever!)
>
>
> > [econômica] for [minha] firm, [Brastrans], [em] office of
> > [minha] residence on Bay of A sharp word, [Miami].
>
>
> Daniella
> [the sack filler;-)))]
>
small group of buddies have been reading Brazilian lyrics and books
about Brazilian music automatically translated by Altavista or similar
machine, to end up with a terrible and disastrous representation of the
original when not edited by someone who really knows both the language
and the specific culture to which it applies -- as widely publicized on
disclaimers by Altavista and others. So far, so good. The bad taste is
yours and you can do whatever you want with it -- you can enjoy as much
anedoctal translation of Brazilian music and facts about Brazilian
culture as you wish. You have done what Stanislaw Ponte Preta (Sergio
Porto) used to call a "samba do crioulo doido" (and this is not now --
as it never was -- a racial issue). I wonder what your machine
translations will inform about expressions such as "molhar o biscoito".
Nonetheless, you don't have the right to misguide people seeking
meaningful information on the subject -- nor to try to scare off this
NG people who know what they are talking about.
And whoever is interested in checking your latest misrepresentation
just have to scroll up this thread to see that you started and set the
tone of this argument.
Carlos
Carlos P. Falcão
Here is what someone with knowledge of Brazilian Portuguese (and one
basecal nowlege of USean English) would read those notes. Hope this
will throw some light in your cave -- hopefully, without burning it!
Machine translations should be used with extreme care.
Carlos
[...}
> One needs to know everything that's being launched in order to fully
> enjoy an exciting flame war. (Oops. Make it ".. to enjoy fully .."
> or ".. fully to enjoy .." or whatever!) Since our
> Brazilian Portuguese<>American English Translator
> has gone on strike, I was forced to have recourse to the online
> translation services, such as they are. For other RMBers in
> similar situation as me (Oops! Make it ".. as I".) here's what two
> of the translation bots thought Carlos was saying.
Ashok
> In your widely recognized mental insanity you keep on adding up
mistakes, without ever knowing what you say. You don't know me, never
saw me, doesn't know who I am, and keep on attacking me viciously
without any fair reason at all. Not to you -- that does not deserve any
consideration whatsoever -- but to other people that may be watching
amazed at this typical USean lynching attempt -- I inform that I don't
do translations for a living, as you stated in a malicious and negative
manner, once again without knowing the facts. I am a retired
professional economist, 61, working part-time as an economic and
idiomatic consultant in my company, Brastrans, with offices in my
residence at Biscayne Bay, Miami.
You seem to embody the worse one can find in an American woman:
neurotic, stubborn, masculine, with absolutely no grace. That
kind of "thing" what inspires romantic songs such as "The Lady is a
Tramp", by the sound of which US couples dance, make love and/or kill
each other -- whatever happens first.
You can compile as much data as you wish, but you don't understand now
and never will understand Brazilian music, due to your absolute lack of
two basic ingredients: harmony and feeling. I advise you to concentrate
your efforts in appreciation of other musical styles in further
consonance with you personality, such as "heavy-metal and "hard rock"
-- especially the ones from groups that destroy their instruments and
blow up recording studios at the end of sessions.
And stop bothering me!
C
Carlos P. Falcão
Here is what someone with knowledge of Brazilian Portuguese (and one
basecal nowlege of USean English) would read those notes. Hope this
will throw some light in your cave -- hopefully, without burning it!
Machine translations should be used with extreme care.
Carlos
[...}
> One needs to know everything that's being launched in order to fully
> enjoy an exciting flame war. (Oops. Make it ".. to enjoy fully .."
> or ".. fully to enjoy .." or whatever!) Since our
> Brazilian Portuguese<>American English Translator
> has gone on strike, I was forced to have recourse to the online
> translation services, such as they are. For other RMBers in
> similar situation as me (Oops! Make it ".. as I".) here's what two
> of the translation bots thought Carlos was saying.
Ashok
> In your widely recognized mental insanity you keep on adding up
Alan Rosenlicht
ADhar...@WorldBank.Org (Ashok) wrote:
> >But as far as I'm concerned, it's all to the good. At least I won't
have to put
> >up with your split infinitives any longer.
>
> >Daniella
>
> nearly a century after being consigned to trashbin by Fowler, Esq!
>
> dissing the StarTrek motto: to boldly split infinitives no one
> has split before.
>
> :)
>
>
>
That is fine indeed. Now can someone please tell me the exact
quotation from Winston Churchill about ending a sentence with a
preposition? I recall it as going something like this:
"To end a sentence with a preposition is the sort of outrage up with
which I shall not put."
If you know the actual quotation let me know. For Carlos's benefit I
ran it by Altavista's translator and came up with the following:
"Extremidade uma sentença com uma preposição é a sorte do ultraje acima
com qual eu não porei."
Not bad, eh?
--
Alan Rosenlicht
Carlos P. Falcão
And (using that machine again) this is how Brazilians would read
Churchill:
"Extremity a sentence with a preposition is the luck of offends it
above with which I will not put".
Nice computer talk for a few Martian intellectuals but -- as they say
down there: "Não dá samba".
Carlos
>
--
Daniella Thompson
> That seems to explain at least part of the problem here. You and a
> small group of buddies have been reading Brazilian lyrics and books
> about Brazilian music automatically translated by Altavista or similar
> machine, to end up with a terrible and disastrous representation of the
> original when not edited by someone who really knows both the language
> and the specific culture to which it applies --
I finally figured out what he's up to: this is an ongoing commercial for the
Falcão translation service!
Daniella
P.S. Carlos, remember what I said:
1. Homework (you haven't done it yet).
2. Any stroke, any distance, any time.
KSun28
Carlos,
Preta (Sergio
>Porto) used to call a "samba do crioulo doido" (and this is not now --
>as it never was -- a racial issue). I wonder what your machine
>translations will inform about expressions such as "molhar o biscoito".
Since I don't have access to an idiomatic dictionary(or cultural reference),
would you explain the meaning of these 2 expressions? I'm curious.
Thanks in advance,
Kristi
Daniella Thompson
> >"samba do crioulo doido" (and this is not now --
> >as it never was -- a racial issue). I wonder what your machine
> >translations will inform about expressions such as "molhar o biscoito".
>
> Since I don't have access to an idiomatic dictionary(or cultural reference),
> would you explain the meaning of these 2 expressions? I'm curious.
I don't know who is leading whom down the primrose path, but if you really don't
know these expressions, you're better off investigating them in private. Some
time ago, Brazzil magazine published an article covering just about all the dirty
language invented in Brazil. The title of the article is 'Dirty Trick -- All the
dirty words you knew existed, but didn't know where to find.' You can probably
find the above pearls (or something comparable) there:
<http://www.brazil-brasil.com/blamay98.htm>
Daniella
Daniella Thompson
> Now can someone please tell me the exact
> quotation from Winston Churchill about ending a sentence with a
> preposition? I recall it as going something like this:
>
> "To end a sentence with a preposition is the sort of outrage up with
> which I shall not put."
Winston apparently didn't mind beginning a sentence with a preposition... :-)
Daniella
Carlos P. Falcão
--
> >as it never was -- a racial issue). I wonder what your machine
> >translations will inform about expressions such as "molhar o
biscoito".
>
> Since I don't have access to an idiomatic dictionary(or cultural
reference),
> would you explain the meaning of these 2 expressions? I'm curious.
>
>
> Kristi
"Molhar o biscoito" is a coloquial expression used by Gabriel o
Pensador in one of his songs. This is one of a myriad of jocous carioca
slangs ("afogar o ganso", etc) referring to sexual intercourse. They
are widely accepted and not considered "dirty" in Brazil.
Carlos
Carlos P. Falcão
ksu...@aol.com (KSun28) wrote:
>
> Carlos,
>
> Preta (Sergio
> >Porto) used to call a "samba do crioulo doido" (and this is not now
--
> >as it never was -- a racial issue). I wonder what your machine
> >translations will inform about expressions such as "molhar o
biscoito".
>
> Since I don't have access to an idiomatic dictionary(or cultural
reference),
> would you explain the meaning of these 2 expressions? I'm curious.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Kristi
Ooops... I forgot to add that. "Samba do crioulo doido" is an
expression coined by Sergio Porto, a talented comic playwriter and
columnist in Rio at that time. It refers to the works of some Carnival
samba composers during a period of time in the 60's. In order to foster
education and patriotism, the military dictatorship in power at that
time decided to establish prizes and financial incentives to composers
who wrote about relevant Brazilian historical issues in songs they
write annualy for the Carnival parade in February/March. That would be
a shift from their usual themes such as lost loves, and places where
they live -- mostly slums on the hills -- and are umbilically attached
to: O Morro, Mangueira (Verde e Rosa), Estacio, Salgueiro, Portela,
etc. So, they got all excited and rushed to the libraries to gather
relevant data from which they would build their historical sambas. And
some of the results were a real mess. As a caricature of such
situation, Sergio Porto (if I am not mistaken, in the name of one of
his hilarious characters, Stanislaw Ponte Preta, a very smart and lazy
carioca bum) wrote the "Samba do Crioulo Doido", a very funny piece. I
can't recall the lyrics (will sobebody help?) as I was in NYC at the
time and had little contact with folks down there, due to political
reasons. But to give you a rough idea -- should it be done in the US
-- it would sound something like: "God bless Abraham Lincoln / Our
glorious inventor of the automobile / And may God bless Benjamim
Franklin / Who fought to free our slaves..."
Its literal translation is "The Crazy Blackman's Samba".
Daniella Thompson
> I can't recall the lyrics (will sobebody help?)
O Samba do Crioulo Doido
(Stanislaw Ponte Preta aka Sérgio Porto)
Foi em Diamantina, onde nasceu JK
Que a princesa Leopoldina arresolveu se casar
Mas Chica da Silva tinha outros pretendentes
E obrigou a princesa a se casar com Tiradentes
Laiá, laiá, laiá
O bode que deu vou te contar,
Laiá, laiá, laiá
Joaquim José, que tambem é da Silva Xavier
Queria ser dono do mundo e se elegeu Pedro II
Das estradas de Minas, seguiu para São Paulo
E parou na Anchieta
O vigario dos índios aliou-se a Dom Pedro
E acabou com a falseta
Da uniao deles ficou resolvida a questão
E foi proclamada a escravidão
E foi proclamada a escravidão...
Assim se conta esta historia
Que é dos dois a maior glória
Mas Leopoldina virou trem
E Dom Pedro é uma estação tambem
ô, ô, ô, ô, ô, ô, ô, ô, ô
O trem tá atrasado, já passou
ô, ô, ô, ô, ô, ô, ô, ô, ô
O trem tá atrasado, já passou
Daniella
Egidio Leitao
time this song came out probably sang it a lot. It's definitely part of
my long-term memory. If I may, though, I need to add one small word in
the lyrics:
> Da uniao deles ficou resolvida a questão
That line should read
Da união deles dois ficou resolvida a questão.
^^^^^
--
Egídio
Brazilian music reviews:
o Simone's Discography: http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~egidio/Simone/
o Terra Brasilis: http://www.caravanmusic.com/TerraBrasilis.html
o Luna Kafé: http://www.fuzzlogic.com/lunakafe/
KSun28
Carlos wrote some really cool, interesting stuff...<snipped for brevity>
I have a few questions, if you don't mind...
>So, they got all excited and rushed to the libraries to gather
>relevant data from which they would build their historical sambas. And
>some of the results were a real mess>
Do you think the 'mess' could have been a result of a sly sort of protest by
the samba composers(not liking being told by the government what to write
about), carelessness, lack of education(ability to read), or lack of access
to historically accurate books(some libraries are better than others!)?
>"God bless Abraham Lincoln / Our
>glorious inventor of the automobile / And may God bless Benjamim
>Franklin / Who fought to free our slaves
LOL!
Obrigada,
Kristi
KSun28
Daniella,
>I don't know who is leading whom down the primrose path, but if you really
>don't
>know these expressions, you're better off investigating them in private
No, I really didn't know. In fact, at the risk of exposing myself as the
dumbest member of this newsgroup, I'll admit that I'm not even sure about the
'primrose path' expression, although through context it seems to connote a
clever, covert manipulation. If you think I am capable of this(if that's what
it means), why not believe the best, and imagine that I am attempting to get
Carlos back on-topic? ;-)
Anyhow, thanks for the Brazzil article address. I'll check it out when I get a
chance.
Kristi
Daniella Thompson
> I'm not even sure about the 'primrose path' expression, although through
> context it seems to connote a
> clever, covert manipulation. If you think I am capable of this(if that's what
> it means), why not believe the best, and imagine that I am attempting to get
> Carlos back on-topic? ;-)
I always believe the best until there's evidence to the contrary; I certainly
never thought *your* intentions were anything less than the best. :-)
> Anyhow, thanks for the Brazzil article address. I'll check it out when I get a
> chance.
I find it long and tedious -- better for browsing than for reading through -- but
it's quite thorough and educational.
Daniella
Carlos P. Falcão
> >some of the results were a real mess>
>
> Do you think the 'mess' could have been a result of a sly sort of
protest by
write
> about), carelessness, lack of education(ability to read), or lack
of access
> to historically accurate books(some libraries are better than
others!)?
>
> >"God bless Abraham Lincoln / Our
> >glorious inventor of the automobile / And may God bless Benjamim
> >Franklin / Who fought to free our slaves
>
> LOL!
>
> Obrigada,
>
> Kristi
De nada. There were protests, of course, hidden from official
censorship through double-meaning lyrics. They came from an
intelectualized strata such as Chico Buarque (Vai Passar), Geraldo
Vandré (Caminhando), João Bosco (O bêbado e o equilibrista), Caetano
Veloso and many,many others. But these are not typical Carnival samba
composers and that's another story.
Besides being the world's wildest and largest party -- fancy balls and
parades with over one million dancers --, Brazilian Carnival is a
multibillion dollar industry and employs virtually hundreds of
thousands of people in full- or part-time jobs throughout the year.
Samba Schools grew in Rio slums, mostly in its hilly, economically
depressed areas, but all the leading ones now have their own websites
or homepages. You can check them out at yahoo.com.
The typical Carnival samba composer at the time was illiterate or
semiliterate, played no instrument at all and usually did his work
imbibing cachaça at a roadbar with his partner and beating his right
hand fingers on a box of matches (those with wood sticks) at a
syncopated samba tempo in which he sings lyrics until he learns them by
heart. There were many exceptions, though, and one of them -- perhaps
the biggest of them all -- refers to Angenor de Oliveira, alias
"Cartola" (top hat), a genius in poetry and music, whose work was
admired by Stravinsky and Villa-Lobos, among others, and who died in
near poverty, in 1980. One of his masterpieces is "As Rosas Não Falam"
(Roses Don't Talk) that has become a standard in Brazil and elsewhere.
Well, I am diverging -- let's get back to the crazy blackman.
They were then -- as they are now albeit themes have changed -- running
for gold since top Carnival sambas sell only a few records and can
hardly survive the season. Most of them failed the historical approach
-- not for lack of information but for their inexperience with such
themes, lack of education and time to put it all together. Many of them
work hard during the week to make ends meet.
I hope this will satisfy your immediate curiosity on the subject and
thank you for putting up with my infinitive splitting ;-{)
Um abraço,
Carlos
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Carlos P. Falcão
> One needs to know everything that's being launched in order to fully
> enjoy an exciting flame war. (Oops. Make it ".. to enjoy fully .."
> or ".. fully to enjoy .." or whatever!) Since our
> Brazilian Portuguese<>American English Translator
> has gone on strike, I was forced to have recourse to the online
> translation services, such as they are. For other RMBers in
> similar situation as me (Oops! Make it ".. as I".) here's what two
> of the translation bots thought Carlos was saying.
>
> Ashok
>
forgive me twice, as I accidentally machine-gunned you that number of
times. Afterall, you meant no harm to anyone despite the fact that you
seem to enjoy watching blood stains on the ground now and then --
probably like others there were not sincere as you.
Incidentally, before we have any more misunderstandings and
misconceptions about whatever I do -- actually, very little -- :-})
besides bumming on the Internet, may I explain that I got this
translator tag in another (language sci.) newsgroup where members are
usually identified by what they call "language pairs". I just don't
know how to remove it permanently as I want-- and I usually forget to
delete it before posting. Can anyone help me on how to do it?
posting.
Oh, yes, about the job: I am sure you can count on a number of highly
qualified translators in this NG and I would be deeply honored to be
considered as one of them.
KSun28
Carlos,
Thanks for clarifying!
>(O bębado e o equilibrista)
I've always loved this song, the way Elis Regina sings it really touches
me.When I was vacationing in Brazil, a few years ago, I went to a club in Rio
and the female singer did a lovely rendition of it, along with all the
Brazilians in the audience who were singing w/ her!:-) I would like to
understand the lyrics, too, but I don't want to ask you for help if it's too
much trouble(I realize there may be several cultural references that may take a
while to explain). The only part that clicks in my memory is the allusion to
Henfil- wasn't he the cartoonist who criticized Elis for singing (the Brazilian
national anthem?) at the request of the dictatorship for some special event?
>and
>thank you for putting up with my infinitive splitting ;-{)
'Tis no crime to infinitely split infinitives.:-)
Kristi
Daniella Thompson
> I would like to understand the lyrics, [...] The only part that clicks in my
> memory is the allusion to
> Henfil- wasn't he the cartoonist who criticized Elis for singing (the Brazilian
> national anthem?) at the request of the dictatorship for some special event?
Here is Charles Perrone's translation of "O Bêbado e a Equilibrista" (João
Bosco/Aldir Blanc) as published in his book 'Masters of Contemporary Brazilian
Song, MPB 1965-1985.'
Henfil was indeed a cartoonist, but the reference here is to Henfil's brother
Betinho (his other brother was the wonderful composer/musician Francisco Mário).
Betinho was forced to go into exile (like Chico Buarque, Caetano & Gil) during the
military disctatorship.
Daniella
_______________________
Night was falling like a freeway warning
and a drunk dressed in mourning
reminded me of Charlie Chaplin.
The moon just like a madame in ascent
was asking each cold star
to pay a sparkling rent.
And clouds up there in the blotter of the sky
were sucking tortured stains awry.
Oh, how stifling!
Crazy and drunk in his bowler hat
he was behaving like an irreverent brat
at nighttime in Brazil, my Brazil.
That dreams about Henfil's brother returning
and so many people who took off burning
from this sizzling hornet's nest.
Our genteel mother country cries.
Marys and Clarissas crying still
on the soil of Brazil.
Yet, I know that this pungent pain
will not have been in vain.
Hope/performs on the tightrope clutching a parasol
and every step of the way
might mean a nasty fall.
Bad luck!/The balancing acts of hope know
that every artist's show
must go on.
KSun28
Daniella,
>Here is Charles Perrone's translation of "O Bêbado e a Equilibrista" (João
>Bosco/Aldir Blanc) as published in his book 'Masters of Contemporary
>Brazilian
>Song, MPB 1965-1985.'
This seems like a book I should own, if it discusses lyrical content. Does it?
>Night was falling like a freeway warning
>and a drunk dressed in mourning
>reminded me of Charlie Chaplin.
The universal Chaplin. Just 5 years ago I was in a town in Chile, and a huge
crowd of teenagers and adults had gathered in the town center(outdoors with
bleachers and a cinema-sized screen) to watch Chaplin movies. I wonder, for
countries that have experienced censorship and the fear of speaking aloud, if
there is an especially profound feeling of connection or reverence for Chaplin,
the one who says and does so much without sound?
>The moon just like a madame in ascent
>was asking each cold star
>to pay a sparkling rent.
Delicious.
>Hope/performs on the tightrope clutching a parasol
>and every step of the way
>might mean a nasty fall.
>Bad luck!/The balancing acts of hope know
>that every artist's show
>must go on.
Is this Saudade yet? :-)
Thanks Daniella, as always.
Kristi
Daniella Thompson
> >Charles Perrone's translation of "O Bêbado e a Equilibrista" (João
> >Bosco/Aldir Blanc) as published in his book 'Masters of Contemporary
> >Brazilian Song, MPB 1965-1985.'
>
> This seems like a book I should own, if it discusses lyrical content. Does it?
It does. It's probably the best English-language book about MPB.
> >Night was falling like a freeway warning
> >and a drunk dressed in mourning
> >reminded me of Charlie Chaplin.
>
> I wonder, for countries that have experienced censorship and the fear of
> speaking aloud, if
> there is an especially profound feeling of connection or reverence for Chaplin,
> the one who says and does so much without sound?
Interesting supposition. That may very well be the case, but Chaplin has always
been hugely popular in Brazil (and indeed in every country around the globe, even
those that haven't known political repression). Who hasn't sung his song
"Smile"? There's even a popular Portuguese version by Braguinha. Nana Caymmi
recorded it on her 1997 live album 'No Coração do Rio.'
Daniella
Carlos P. Falcão
>
> >
> Come to think of it, who has lived in Brazil in the 70-80s may
> remember much more of Aracy as a juror of a TV show by Silvio Santos,
> in which she appears to be no more than a shadow of what she once was.
> This may be the reason of such prejudice.
>
> > Eduardo Pimenta.
>
If my 4 years of Latin in HS are worth anything at all (grin) -- as at
this time I don't have any ethmological reference in my dictionaires at
home -- the word "prejudice" means (or signifies, if you prefer)
judgement before the facts. Pre=prior + judice=judgement.
As I saw and heard Aracy performing live many times in in the past, I
am a witness to the fact. You may disagree with my opinion -- and it is
useless to argue about anyone's taste. But I think it is incorrect to
call it a prejudice. Don't you?
Daniella Thompson
> Henfil was indeed a cartoonist, but the reference here is to Henfil's brother
> Betinho (his other brother was the wonderful composer/musician Francisco Mário).
> Betinho was forced to go into exile (like Chico Buarque, Caetano & Gil) during the
> military disctatorship.
>
> <<That dreams about Henfil's brother returning>>
I totally forgot to mention the happy ending:
In Aldir Blanc's superb career retrospective disc '50 Anos' (Alma/001; 1996), the
closing track is "O Bębado e a Equilibrista," sung by no other than Betinho with
MPB-4 and a chorus of all the friends who gathered in the studio. Henfil's brother
returned and closed the circle.
Daniella
Carlos P. Falcão
ksu...@aol.com (KSun28) wrote:
>
>
> Carlos,
>
> Thanks for clarifying!
>
> >(O bębado e o equilibrista)
>
> I've always loved this song, the way Elis Regina sings it really
touches
> me.When I was vacationing in Brazil, a few years ago, I went to a
club in Rio
> and the female singer did a lovely rendition of it, along with all the
to
> understand the lyrics, too, but I don't want to ask you for help if
it's too
> much trouble(I realize there may be several cultural references that
may take a
allusion to
> Henfil- wasn't he the cartoonist who criticized Elis for singing (the
Brazilian
> national anthem?) at the request of the dictatorship for some special
event?
>
> >thank you for putting up with my infinitive splitting ;-{)
>
> 'Tis no crime to infinitely split infinitives.:-)
>
> Kristi
>
likely to have happened since she befriended many in the opposiion but
never took a stand.
"O bębado e o equilibrista" was sung by millions of people in parades
through the streets of all big cities in Brazil for a return to free
elections. It became an anthem for free speech and freedom of choice.
Its lyrics refer to "Carlitos", Charlie Chaplin's character nickname in
Brazil, as a warning that they were talking -- or, rather, singing,
about images with meanings, such as in silent movies, so as to overcome
the official censorship.
It starts by setting the tone to what it was about to come: "Caía a
tarde feito um viaduto". Its literal translation is: "The night was
falling like a freeway". Does that make sense to you? Well, it made to
everybody there at the time. During the 60's and early 70", financed by
the World Bank, Rio City government spent $billions
building freeways that crisscrossed Rio virtually in all directions.
Due to reasons that are irrelevant to be discussed here, one of such
newly constructed freeways (viadutos) fell and killed hundreds of
people that were passing by.
As you can see, it is very difficult -- if not impossible -- to
summarize all these informations, among others, to people who are not
familiar with the issue, and still get the timing and rhyme at the end
of the song.
It also refers to Henfil's brother, Betinho, a sociologist by
profession, political activist then connected to leftist groups, who
was expelled from the country by the military. "Num rabo de foguete"
(literally "in a rocket tail") is a colloquial expression meaning big
trouble. Henfil is the nickname of Henrique Filho, a talented
cartoonist (author of the "Fradinho" character series).
Betinho returned in the late 70's, became an apolitical icon
unanimously supported by virtually everybody in the country, from the
President down to people in the streets, and led a successful national
"Crusade Against Hunger" that was approved by the United Nations, among
others. Some of his ideas were adopted elsewhere and now if you just
click once a day at the site http://www.thehungersite.com, you will be
able to make a (free) donation to someone in need, somewhere in the
world.
As they were both hemophiliacs, due to a hereditary factor, Bettinho
and Henfil got contaminated by AIDS in one of their frequent blood
transfusions, but worked hard for their ideals all the way to the last
minute of their lives, and were buried in glory.
Thanks for the chance to make me remind of such wonderful people.
Daniella Thompson
> forget about Altavista - oh, my God, that was something!)
Thank you for the excellent but misplaced advice. I never use online
translators.
Thank you also for your concise and well-mannered lesson in behavior.
I don't recall that I ever forced anyone to like Aracy de Almeida. Or, for that
matter, to read my posts.
Daniella
julie...@my-deja.com
I'm completely in love with our music. So for the sake of our music,
Daniella, could you please stop this insanity? I've been trying to
figure out what your problem is. For more than two months I've been
reading this forum just to see if this is the right place for somebody
who works a lot and wishes to discuss Brazilian music as a hobby - FOR
RELAXATION ONLY. Our music and language are so smooth and what did I
find out? This forum isn't a place for relaxation at all. There is a
lady like you who is trying to intimidate people playing the BIG BOSS.
Who told you that by reading some books you are entitled to act like
that? Nobody can disagree from your truth or from what you've read in
books. The most important memory of our music is our own people of all
ages, not only the ones who wrote those books.For instance, I'm 49
years old but I know lyrics of songs from the beginning of the century.
Thanks to my parents who are 95 and 85 years old. As a music lover ,I
listened to all the records my father used to bring home. He is an
affectionate. That's when I was introduced to Noel, Sílvio Caldas,
Elizeth Cardoso, Francisco Alves, Orlando Silva, Nelson Gonçalves,
Emilinha Borba, Ângela Maria, Adoniran Barbosa, Lamartine Babo,
Dircinha e Linda Batista, and later to Jobim, João Gilberto, etc., but
not to Aracy de Almeida.My father has a very good taste for music and
also for women. Daniella, may I express my opinion regarding the "old
lady"? She was nasty in every way, not only as a singer and but also as
a woman(?).I told what you said to other Brazilian who live here and
they just laughed. They said that who wrote this nonsense must be out
of her mind. That's you, dear. Sorry!!!
Aracy wouldn't have a chance in the 90's without the patronage of Noel
and others who she used to hang out with. As she was basically a man
she had no problems with her family or the narrow-minded society for
being an artist. Other girls faced some kind of prejudice at that time.
In the 90's a singer must have at least one of these three "qualities":
be also a good composer (so that we can stand his/her voice in
exchanging of listening to good songs), have THE VOICE or THE LOOKS.
For instance,Chico Buarque isn't the best singer (he has improved a lot
over the years) but he is a talented composer and also has the
looks.Tim Maia didn't have the looks but could sing very distinctively.
Caetano didn't have the looks in the beginning of his career but at 50
he's turned into a handsome gentleman who composes and sings perfectly
as well. Simone, Djavan, Leila Pinheiro, Marina, Marisa Monte, Gal have
not only the looks but also the voice. Roberto Carlos/Erasmo Carlos
compose wonderful songs that sound much better in the voices of
Caetano, Simone, Gal e Bethânia (is this the right spelling,
Daniella?). Xuxa shouldn't open her mouth (is she a singer?) but she
has the looks. Milton Nascimento doesn't have the looks but he is an
angel singing. Same for Gil. Sorry, dear but Aracy wouldn't be a singer
at all. Maybe she would be a good bodyguard for the boys. Besides, she
wasn't a nice person. I can recall every time she appeared on TV it
wasn't nice for my ears not even for my eyes. And I'm talking about
speaking; she was nasty even without singing. But let's forget about
her because she is dead and in Brazil we say that if you speak badly
about the dead the spirit comes back and pulls the person's leg while
she sleeps (of course, this is a joke).
The main subject here is how you mistreat people just because they
don't agree with you. You should be a little more humble and shouldn't
try to beat a subject just because you've read some books. Do you know
that in our century even the blind can read in Braille? You aren't an
authority in the subject. What you know anyone with enough spare time
to read can learn. There are libraries,films,Internet; there is a lot
of information out there except for what we can remember ourselves just
for being there. As I mentioned I have good memories of a little girl
singing along with my Dad and learning the best of our music.
Another thing one can't learn from books is politeness. One can improve
it through books but not learn its essence. We acquire politeness
gradually from our parents. So I don't expect you to learn now. I saw
your picture somewhere in the Internet and I could see you aren't that
young. It's a pity that you've transformed this forum into a battle
field where you are the General and every move has to be according to
your rules. It reminds me of the 20 years of dictatorship in Brazil. At
that time no one could express themselves if that meant to disagree
with the "gorillas". As far as I'm concerned this is a public
forum in a free country and acting the way you do people get either mad
or intimidated of making part of it. The way things are going this
group is going to end discussing the "sex of the angels".If this
expression has no meaning in English in Portuguese means unimportant
matters. Can you imagine if everybody leaves? You're going to loose
your "reign" and the only way out would be create fake e-mails so that
outsiders may think you are discussing with other people. in fact you
would be writing to yourself.This is what happens to people like you:
they end up talking to themselves.
Last but not least, to understand our music you must be humble
(remember João Gilberto and Jobim?) When one is a celebrity there is no
need of bragging about it to prove it every minute. It is impossible to
learn the real essence of Brazilian music through books ("ninguém
aprende samba no colégio" - nobody learns samba at school, wrote Noel).
One may learn its facts and even play it but one can't get into the
heart of the matter. Much worse if one can't speak the language. Get
yourself a Brazilian Portuguese teacher (not only books and forget
about Altavista - oh, my God, that was something!) to teach you not
only the language but also the essence of a Brazilian soul. This way
you may turn into an expert depending on the improvement of your own
soul.
Please don't bother to answer me or correct my English (try to express
yourself in Portuguese instead) because I won't reply. Also this is not
a forum to discuss English grammar and spelling. You all should stick
to the subject. In my case, I never use computer spelling check. So
forget about my English. This is the first and last time you guys are
reading something I wrote in this forum. Maybe you can catch me
somewhere else - some better forums. This one is sicknening.
All my best to all of you who can still stand this bullshit. Get a
life!
Juliene de Pádua
KSun28
>> I am a Brazilian living in the US for 9 years and - I must confess -
>I'm completely in love with our music.
We have this love in common.
So for the sake of our music,
>Daniella, could you please stop this insanity? I've been trying to
>figure out what your problem is. For more than two months I've been
>reading this forum just to see if this is the right place for somebody
>who works a lot and wishes to discuss Brazilian music as a hobby - FOR
>RELAXATION ONLY. Our music and language are so smooth and what did I
>find out? This forum isn't a place for relaxation at all. There is a
>lady like you who is trying to intimidate people playing the BIG BOSS.
Strange how we can perceive this differently. Me, I work full-time and go to
school, and subscribe to this newsgroup-it never causes my blood to
boil-nothing said here seems really real. In fact, the epithets hurled between
Daniella and Carlos are often amusing, entertaining, from my own twisted,
immature point of view(Come on , Ashok, confess, you like it a little bit, too,
no???) Daniella, she's fussy about the facts, but she's the type of jounalist
you'd trust your life story with, and her passion for brasilian music is
exposed in her lengths to preserve in it that which she values in life, that
which she feels is sacred- truth. As for me, I'm more freewheeling and like a
dab of myth and folklore to balance things, a relativist.
>Who told you that by reading some books you are entitled to act like
>that? Nobody can disagree from your truth or from what you've read in
>books.
Ah, but you can, I can, anyone can, and we should if we feel it is appropriate.
I am not afraid of Daniella- why should I be? The worst that might happen is
she will bop me over the head with a cyberwand. Bopping is all in our minds.
This fear is a fear of nothing. There's no censorship here- the only censor is
the censor in our own minds. That's what I like about Carlos, he keeps coming
back, and has made wonderful contributions, for which I am extremely grateful.
I can tell from your post that you're intelligent, articulate, and have so much
to contribute to this group because of your experience as a Brasilian. Would
you please consider sticking around?
Best regards,
Kristi
Egídio Leitão
medium. Anyone can create fake accounts and fictitious identities.
Come on, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure things out if
you're internet savvy!
Remember: the internet allows us users to find out more about ourselves
than some of us give it credit. BE careful with what you post and how
you post it. Some of us can read in between the lines.
---
Egídio
Brazilian music reviews:
o Luna Kafé: http://www.fuzzlogic.com/lunakafe/
September Moon: Cantos da Palavra
Mountaga Aw
> The best part about this whole charade is that this is a very impersonal
> medium. Anyone can create fake accounts and fictitious identities.
> Come on, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure things out if
> you're internet savvy!
>
> Remember: the internet allows us users to find out more about ourselves
> than some of us give it credit. BE careful with what you post and how
> you post it. Some of us can read in between the lines.
>
My sentiments exactly!
As the old Monty Python expression goes: Nudge-Nudge-Wink-Wink.
--Mountaga
julie...@my-deja.com
Kristi,
I'm glad that you enjoy all this fuzz. I am considering sticking around
once in a while just because you said that I can contribute to the
group for being a Brazilian and a music lover.I wll show up whenever I
see issues I am interested in or when I see that I can be of any help.
Thanks for the compliments!
Juliene de Pádua
julie...@my-deja.com
egi...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu wrote:
> The best part about this whole charade is that this is a very
impersonal
> medium. Anyone can create fake accounts and fictitious identities.
> Come on, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure things out if
> you're internet savvy!
>
> Remember: the internet allows us users to find out more about
ourselves
> than some of us give it credit. BE careful with what you post and how
> you post it. Some of us can read in between the lines.
>
> Egídio
I don't need to impersonate anyone just to express what I feel. The
reason I didn't release my e-mail address is simple: I have the right
to protect my family from all the junk mail and pornography that flow
from the Net. I only release my address to friends and for work
purposes.I am proud to say that I receive just little junk and no
pornography.I've been smart enough not to expose my address to this ""
impersonal medium". If this is explanation is good enough for you, ok.
If not I can't help you with all your fantasies about impersonating
somebody else.
As far as I'm concerned I didn't say any improperties to the BIG BOSS.I
didn't send her a private e-mail calling her names. All I said was
maybe what you and others wanted to say but didn't have the courage to
do it.
Bye for now
Juliene de Pádua
>
> Brazilian music reviews:
> o Luna Kafé: http://www.fuzzlogic.com/lunakafe/
> September Moon: Cantos da Palavra
>
> o Simone's Discography: http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~egidio/Simone/
> o Terra Brasilis: http://www.caravanmusic.com/TerraBrasilis.html
>
julie...@my-deja.com
100...@salam.physics.umd.edu>,
Mountaga Aw <moun...@physics.umd.edu> wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Sep 1999, [iso-8859-1] Eg=EDdio Leit=E3o wrote:
>
> > The best part about this whole charade is that this is a very
impersonal
> > medium. Anyone can create fake accounts and fictitious
> > Come on, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure things out if
> > you're internet savvy!
> > Remember: the internet allows us users to find out more about
ourselves
> > than some of us give it credit. BE careful with what you post and
how
> >=20
>
> My sentiments exactly!
> As the old Monty Python expression goes: Nudge-Nudge-Wink-Wink.
>
> --Mountaga
She's got cheerleaders now! That was funny! Some people she has to
defend her.
Juliene de Pádua
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Ashok
>
>
>That is fine indeed. Now can someone please tell me the exact
>quotation from Winston Churchill about ending a sentence with a
>preposition? I recall it as going something like this:
>
>"To end a sentence with a preposition is the sort of outrage up with
>which I shall not put."
>
The actual quotation has a pithy phrase to describe pesky nitpickers:
"This is the sort of errant pedantry up with which we shall
not put."
Courtesy AltaVista, we have:
"Esta é a sorte de pedantry errant acima com qual nós não poremos."
>Not bad, eh?
>--
>Alan Rosenlicht
Not bad at all.
Ashok
julie...@my-deja.com
> E parou na Anchieta
> O vigario dos índios aliou-se a Dom Pedro
> E acabou com a falseta
> E foi proclamada a escravidão...
I wanted to correct this part of the lyrics before but I keep
forgetting.
Seguiu prá São Paulo e parou na Anchieta - means he stopped on a
highway called Via Anchieta in São Paulo.
Seguiu prá São Paulo e FALOU com Anchieta - means he spoke to Padre
José de Anchieta, the priest who was responsible for the native indians
catechisation. In his song Sérgio Porto called him "o vigário dos
índios"(the indians' vicar).
Samba do Crioulo Doido cites only important historical facts and
characters and the funny part is the way he mixed them up. No way he
would mix up facts, characters and a highway that didn't even exist at
the time those facts ocurred. It makes no sense at all even
though "Samba do Crioulo Doido" is a nonsense if you know all the
historical facts he mentioned. But a highway... I don't think so.
Via Anchieta was named after Padre Anchieta as well as a city in the
state of São Paulo and many streets and avenues troughout Brazil.
Juliene de Pádua
>
>
> > O trem tá atrasado, já passou
O trem tá atrasado OU já passou