Would like to translate/unders tand "Coisa feita" João Bosco
Henk Frans
song/poem "Coisa Feita" as played by João Bosco? I also would like to
know the interpretation/meaning of the song. You can write me in
English/Dutch/German/Portuguese.
Greetings from Holland
Daniella Thompson
> Who can help me to give a translation (I prefer English) of the
> song/poem "Coisa Feita" as played by João Bosco? I also would like to
> know the interpretation/meaning of the song.
I'll leave to someone else the word-for-word translation.
The essence is feminine black magic. The woman in this song describes
herself as a super-woman, the incarnation of an African princess, and
warns men that she has magic powers against them. She describes some of
the ingredients she uses in her charms.
DT
______________
Coisa Feita
Música: João Bosco
Letra: Aldir Blanc e Paulo Emílio
Sou bem mulher de pegar macho pelo pé
Reencarnação da Princesa do Daomé
Eu sou marfim, lá das Minas do Salomão
Me esparramo em mim, lua cheia sobre o carvão
Um mulherão, balangandãs, cerâmica e cisal
Língua assim, a conta certa entre a baunilha e o sal
Fogão de lenha, garrafa de areia colorida
Pedra-sabão, peneira e água boa de moringa
Sou de arrancar couro
De farejar ouro
Princesa do Daomé
Sou coisa feita, se o malandro se aconchegar
Vai morrer na esteira, maré sonsa de Paquetá
Sou coisa benta, se provar do meu aluá
Bebe o pólo norte, bem tirado do samovar
Neguinho assim, ó, já escreveu atrás do caminhão
"A mulher que não se esquece é lá do Daomé"
Faço mandinga, fecho caminhos com as cinzas
Deixo biruta, lelé da cuca, zuretão, ranzinza
Pra não ficar bobo, melhor fugir logo
Sou de pegar pelo pé
Sou avatar vodu, sou de botar fogo
Princesa do Daomé
SDN...@webtv.net
ready to wear, and as a "Done deal" . The deal is done, or taken care of
so to say. Like not retractable once done ,it's done.
Paul Okami
which *does* translate "ready to wear" (Preta-Porter de Tafeta). Someone,
somewhere, got the two confused and so if anybody has "heard it said" that
coisa feita translates " ready to wear" it's because some people don't speak
any Romance language at all, and certainly not Portuguese. Coisa Feita
means "festive thing."
Paul Okami
<SDN...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:9961-3BE...@storefull-113.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Kimson Plaut
<< Coisa Feita means "festive thing." >>
sorry, Paul, but no cigar. "Feita" is the past participle of "fazer" (to do, to
make). so it's closer to whoever said "done deal".
- kimson
Carlos
This song is nearly untranslatable. It is a piece of powerful and
surrealistic poetry based on icons and images from AfroBrazilian
folklore. To be understood in other languages/cultures it would have
to be decodified and each term would require extensive footnotes that
could total several times the extension of the lyrics. Pretty boring.
Although "Coisa Feita" literally means "thing done", this Brazilian
idiomatic expression -- or slang, if you prefer -- stands for the
warranty that a black magic spell has been made and that it will work
for sure. Good job for an AfroBrazilian scholar. I pass. Daniella's
summary is OK.
Carlos
Daniella Thompson
> This keeps getting repeated, and the reason is that Joao Bosco has a song
> which *does* translate "ready to wear" (Preta-Porter de Tafeta).
Except that 'prêt-à-porter' is French, not Portuguese. The literal
Portuguese translation for 'ready-to-wear' is 'pronto-a-vestir.'
The definitions for 'coisa feita' in the Michaelis online dictionary are:
C. feita: feitiçaria, bruxaria; barulho, desordem.
DT
Daniella Thompson
> Paul Okami wrote:
> << Coisa Feita means "festive thing." >>
>
> sorry, Paul, but no cigar. "Feita" is the past participle of "fazer" (to do, to
> make).
Paul confused feita (made, feminine mode) with festa (party).
DT
Paul Okami
alliteration, referring in both cases to the annual French fashion
extravaganza.
I accept the correction on Coisa Feita.
Paul
"Daniella Thompson" <dt10...@onemain.com> wrote in message
news:3BE5AD9F...@onemain.com...
Daniella Thompson
> The French is Pret-a-Porter, and Preta Porter is the Portuguese
> alliteration,
Rather, it's a mispelling that occurs in Italian, Spanish, and Portuguese.
In Portuguese it's an unfortunate one, as 'Preta' has a different
meaning altogether.
> referring in both cases to the annual French fashion extravaganza.
No, it simply differentiates haute couture (custom-made fashions) from
the off-the-rack variety. Fashion designers have two distinct product
lines, and prêt-à-porter is the lower one.
Getting back on topic: considering the lyrics and how many other French
words are mispelled in them, the title is very much in character. In
fact, the whole song is one big joke about the maladroit appropriation
of French expressions by Brazilians who know little or nothing of French.
Preta-Porter de Tafetá
(João Bosco/Aldir Blanc)
Pagode em Cocotá
Via a nega rebolá
Num preta-porter de tafetá
Beijei meu patuá
Ói, samba, Oi, ulalá
Mé carrefour, o randevú vai começa
Além de me empurrá
"Kes que sê, tamanduá?
Purquá jé suí du zanzibar"
Aí, eu me criei: pás de bafo, meu bombom
Pra que zanga?
Sou primo do Villegagon
Voalá e çavá, patati, patatá
Boulevar, sarava, vim da Praça Mauá
Dendê, matinê, bambolê
Encaçapo você.
Taí, seu Mitterrand
Marcamos pra amanhã em Paquetá
Num flamboyant em fleur
Onde eu vou ter colher.
Pompadú? Zulu
Manjei toa bocú!...
DT
Marcio Almeida
> Rather, it's a mispelling that occurs in Italian, Spanish, and Portuguese.
> In Portuguese it's an unfortunate one, as 'Preta' has a different
> meaning altogether.
> Getting back on topic: considering the lyrics and how many other French
> words are mispelled in them, the title is very much in character. In
> fact, the whole song is one big joke about the maladroit appropriation
> of French expressions by Brazilians who know little or nothing of French.
The song is certainly a joke, but there's a good motivation for
it, since the French culture was, ages ago, the major foreign
influence in Brazil. Many of the "misspelled" words used by João Bosco
have, thus, a correct Portuguese version (ex: BOULEVARD can be found
as BULEVAR in Brazilian dictionaries). Official misspelling? Maybe.
But if we are to be that strict, let's add English to the list of
languages where such misspellings occurr (Ex: PRÊT-À-PORTER lost both
important accents in order to become PRET-A-PORTER, commonly found in
most English dictionaries).
Márcio Almeida
Daniella Thompson
> But if we are to be that strict, let's add English to the list of
> languages where such misspellings occurr (Ex: PRÊT-À-PORTER lost both
> important accents in order to become PRET-A-PORTER, commonly found in
> most English dictionaries).
My post wasn't an attack on Brazilian Portuguese, so there's no need to
counter with an attack on English dictionaries. In any case, your
argument is neither here nor there, as English is essentially an
accentless language belonging to the Germanic family, while Portuguese,
like French, is Romance and abounds in accents.
But just to satisfy my curiosity about how English dictionaries treat
prêt-à-porter, I typed 'pret-a-porter' with no accents into three widely
used ones. Here are the answers I got.
____________
The American Heritage Dictionary:
prêt-à-por•ter (prêt1ä-pôr-tE2, -pÅr-)
n. 1. Ready-to-wear clothing.
[French prêt ready à to porter to wear]
____________
Merriam-Webster online dictionary:
One entry found for pret-a-porter.
Main Entry: pret-a-por·ter
Variant(s): or prêt-à-por·ter /"pret-ä-por-'tA/
Function: noun
Etymology: French, ready to wear
Date: 1959
: ready-to-wear clothes
____________
Dictionary.com:
Found 1 entry for pret-a-porter.
prêt-à-por·ter (prtä-pôr-t, -pr-)
n.
Ready-to-wear clothing.
[French : prêt, ready + à, to + porter, to wear.]
____________
DT
SDN...@webtv.net
as feira as in quarta feira but the common pun was feita almost like a
holiday or mini festival as the festive attitude it brought on shoping
day. So I can see Paul thinking of it as a celibration. We looked
forward to it .
Carlos
I agree. But there was a misspelling by Bosco or someone who
edited the CD cover. The process of acculturation determines the
assimilation of foreign words in a country's language, as we got
"Futebol" from the British "Football" in the beginning of last
century, and how the Chinese got "Arigato" from the Portuguese
"Obrigado" many centuries ago, as discussed here sometime in the past.
Aurélio, however, the best source available on this issue, does not
recognize "Preta-Porter" as an official world of the Brazilian
language, but rather "Prêt-à-Porter" (*with* all accents).
My 2 cents.
Carlos
SDN...@webtv.net
Daniella Thompson
> and how the Chinese got "Arigato" from the Portuguese
>"Obrigado" many centuries ago,
'Arigato' is Japanese.
The Chinese 'thank you' is 'xie-xie' (pronounced sheh-sheh).
> Aurélio, however, the best source available on this issue, does not
> recognize "Preta-Porter" as an official world of the Brazilian
> language, but rather "Prêt-à-Porter" (*with* all accents).
As does Michaelis:
prêt-à-por.ter adj m+f sing (préta-portê)
e pl( fr)Diz-se de roupa, feita em série ou
manualmente, e que é vendida pronta para usar, nas
lojas.
DT
Daniella Thompson
From this song?
Not exactly. The fabric and the name originated almost 1,800 years ago.
________________
<http://www.dannimports.com/Taffeta/>
Silk Taffeta is one of the oldest luxury fabrics. Woven first in the
early part of the third century by the Persians who called it "Taftah".
Today's version is a fine smooth tightly woven fabric with a distinctive
rustle and dull luster.
________________
<http://www.iraqi-mission.org/historical.htm>
During 786-809 A.D. under the rule of the fifth and most famous khalif,
Harun al-Rashid, Baghdad reached the full glory and opulence associated
with the Abbasid era.
Fortunes equivalent to the greatest today were made in Baghdad and
elsewhere in the empire, as money and wealth rolled in from the
provinces and dependencies. Even for the middle-classes, the equivalent
of $100,000 a year was considered a fair income. Houses were cooled by
ice brought down from Zagros mountains. Tableware was made of silver.
Clothing of all sorts, brocades, taffeta, damask, pewter, glass, stained
glass, gold and silver, pearls, rubies, lapis-lazuli, turquoise,
antimony, silks, perfumes, porcelain, dyes, spices, ivory, marble,
sulfur, paper, pitch, tar, and mercury, all were brought into and became
part of the economy and lifestyle.
________________
<http://www.takeourword.com/Issue032.html>
Taffeta is an interesting word. It was current in English by the
mid-14th century, in the form taffata. Old French had taffeta and
tapheta, and the Romance languages all had similar forms. The ultimate
source is Persian taftah "silken cloth" OR "linen clothing". It comes
from the Persian verb taftan "to shine" or "to twist, to spin".
DT
Marcio Almeida
about music is more interesting. The main intention of my post was to
emphasize the French influence in Brazilian Portuguese vocabulary,
something that helps a lot in trying to understand the lyrics by João
Bosco in the refered song. I can remember two other Brazilian songs
where French plays an important rule. The first one is "Joana
Francesa", where Chico Buarque constructs amazing bilingual puns. The
other is "Le Foudez-Vous" , by Banda Mel, where many words are simply
created, trying to resemble French in sound - nothing to be taken
seriously, of course.
I deem your posts very useful. As to the last one, it would
only be a little more precise if you added English to the list where
misspelings occur. Don't you agree?
Márcio
Daniella Thompson
> I can remember two other Brazilian songs
> where French plays an important rule. The first one is "Joana
> Francesa", where Chico Buarque constructs amazing bilingual puns. The
> other is "Le Foudez-Vous" , by Banda Mel, where many words are simply
> created, trying to resemble French in sound
Here's another beautiful example:
Non Sense
(Guinga/Paulo Cesar Pinheiro)
Longe
Tentar-se persuadi-la
Que nao se flagele
Hoje que já viver nem quer,
Matando a mansa pele
E dela murcha um som de paz
Que lhe há
Isso é infinito romance
Vague
Se tudo é já perdido
Sem que um dono vele
Vague, revida, musa,
A dor capaz que a dor debele
E vague, se lance no que finge ver
Vague, madame, sem se deter
E vá por revanche
Errando e manche
Tudo em torno a si
O que já dela vi
E que hoje vejo-lhe cessar
Vá, bela e difame
Corpo e nome que já reparti
Mas cessa a longa marcha
E ve que geme
Por quase ver-se toda a si,
Se aflige e teme
Dorme,
Sonha que voa lá
No sono um voo enorme
Acorda
E no torpor se lança
E no ar
Quer ver seu corpo,
Que morre,
Voar.
> I deem your posts very useful. As to the last one, it would
> only be a little more precise if you added English to the list where
> misspelings occur. Don't you agree?
I assume you're talking to me (there's no direct reference in your post).
Why pick on English? People mispell in every language. I didn't create a
list of languages where misspelings occur; I did mentioned Spanish,
Italian, and Portuguese because I've actually seen the mispelling
'preta-porter' occur in all three. It happens that they're all Romance
languages related to French. I never saw such mispelling in Germanic
languages in general or in English in particular, although the potential
for mispellings certainly exists. However, I didn't speak of potentials,
only of occurrences I've actually seen. But if you were to present such
occurrence, by all means add English as well; I'm not in the business of
defending one language over another.
DT
Carlos
> Carlos wrote:
>
> > and how the Chinese got "Arigato" from the Portuguese
> >"Obrigado" many centuries ago,
>
> 'Arigato' is Japanese.
> The Chinese 'thank you' is 'xie-xie' (pronounced sheh-sheh).
>
C
Daniella Thompson
Ain't that the truth?
I had enough misspellings in that post to last a lifetime...
DT
Marcio Almeida
combination of French and Portuguese. I particularly like the way the
verse "Acorda, acorda, acorda ..." is pronouced (like "D'accord,
d'accord, d'accord, ...).
Márcio Almeida
Tu ris, tu mens trop
Tu pleures, tu meurs trop
Tu as le tropique
Dans le sang et sur la peau
Geme de loucura e de torpor
Já é madrugada
Acorda, acorda, acorda, acorda, acorda
Mata-me de rir
Fala-me de amor
Songes et mensonges
Sei de longe e sei de cor
Geme de prazer e de pavor
Já é madrugada
Acorda, acorda, acorda, acorda, acorda
Vem molhar meu colo
Vou te consolar
Vem, mulato mole
Dançar dans mes bras
Vem, moleque me dizer
Onde é que está
Ton soleil, ta braise
Quem me enfeitiçou
O mar, marée, bateau
Tu as le parfum
De la cachaça e de suor
Geme de preguiça e de calor
Já é madrugada
Acorda, acorda, acorda, acorda, acorda
Kimson Plaut
and let's not forget Noel Rosa, who way back in 1936 came up with:
Foi num cabaré da Lapa
Que eu conheci você
Fumando cigarro
Entornando champagne no seu soirée
(from "Dama do Cabaré")
or how about this gem from 1933?
Amor lá no morro é amor pra xuxú
As rimas do samba não são 'I love you'
E esse negócio de 'alô, alô, boy,
Alô Johnny!'
Só pode ser conversa de telefone...
(from "Não tem tradução")
- kimson
Ronald Kenyon
twenty recordings of Joana Francesa, although some of them (Badi
Assad) appear to be instrumentals. Many thanks for posting this.
Speaking of mixing languages, are there any recordings in Fronterizo?
Here are some samples of text:
http://www.christusrex.org/www1/pater/JPN-fronterizo.html
marc...@zipmail.com.br (Marcio Almeida) wrote in message news:<5d1cb81e.01110...@posting.google.com>...
Guian de Bastos
In article <20011109004030...@mb-fu.aol.com>, Kimson Plaut
<kpl...@aol.com> wrote:
And Assis Valente too:
Tem Francesa no Morro
(Assis Valente)
Donê muá si vu plé lonér de dancê aveque muá
Dance Ioiô
Dance Iaiá
Si vu frequenté macumbe entrê na virada e fini por sambá
Dance Ioiô
Dance Iaiá
Vian
Petite francesa
Dancê le classique
Em cime de mesa
Quand la dance comece on dance ici on dance aculá
Dance Ioiô
Dance Iaiá
Si vu nê vê pá dancê, pardon mon cherri, adie, je me vá
Dance Ioiô
Dance Iaiá
Guian
Egidio Leitao
French. The samba is a great satirical look at Rio in the mid-50s.
CAFÉ SOÇAITE
Miguel Gustavo
Doutor em anedotas e de champanhotas
Estou acontecendo no Café Soçaite
So digo enchanté muito merci all right
Troquei a luz do dia pela luz da Light
Agora estou somente contra a dama de preto
Nos dez mais elegantes eu estou também
Adoro aniverside, só pesco em Cabo Frio
Decididamente eu sou gente de bem
Enquanto a plebe rude na cidade dorme
Eu ando com Jacinto que é também de Thormes
Terezas e Dolores falam bem de mim
Já fui até citado na coluna do Ibraim
E quando me perguntam
Como é que pode
Papai de black-tie jantando com Didu
Eu peço mais um whisky
Embora esteja pronto
Como é que pode ?
Depois eu conto.
--
Egídio
* * Noites só fazem sentido se você formar o meu par.
* (Aldir Blanc)
Eduardo Pimenta
Egidio Leitao tapped on his keyboard...
>And here's one from 1955, by Miguel Gustavo.
I think you won't consider Tom Jobim's "Chansong" here.
Even so, there is a song by Ednardo, a singer/songwriter from
Ceará called "Artigo 26", which chorus goes like this:
"Anavantú, anavantú, anarriê,
Ne pá de quá, ne pá de quá, padê burrê,
Igualitê, fraternitê e libertê,
merci bocu, merci bocu,
não há de quê"
Eduardo Pimenta.
SDN...@webtv.net
Thompson thanks for the information on tafeta. Here's a couple side
facts: The rustle comes from tin added to the silk to make it fuller.
The tradesmen who did such work to cloth like silk and felt were called
"Fullers"and is the source of the English name Fuller.
Daniella Thompson
> The rustle comes from tin added to the silk to make it fuller.
> The tradesmen who did such work to cloth like silk and felt were called
> "Fullers"and is the source of the English name Fuller.
May I ask where you got your information?
Forgive me for being skeptical, but you're mixing two distinct
activities -- one ancient, the other recent. Fulling is a very old
trade already practiced in Roman times, while tin loading is only a
hundred years old. One has to do with cleaning wool, the other with
adding weight to silk. Besides, taffeta rustles perfectly well without
tin.
See specific references below.
DT
_______________
<http://www.bartleby.com/65/si/silk.html>
The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition. 2001.
silk
The silk is boiled off in soapsuds to remove gum and prepare it for
dyeing. For white and pale tints it must be bleached. Scouring or
boiling causes loss of weight, sometimes made up by loading with
metallic salts, as tin, which has an affinity for silk and can be
absorbed to excess, causing weakening of the fiber.
_______________
<http://www.corsetsandcrinolines.com/1900s.shtml>
Welcome to the
VICTORIAN COSTUME TIMELINE!
1900s
Silk Evening Dress
This gown dates to about c.1900-1906, it's made out of silk satin that
has been tin loaded and is now starting to shatter. Tin loading (adding
metallic salts to the silks) started in the late 19th century in an
effort to produce cheaper silks that still had the same weight as
expensive silks, unfortunately the fabric does not last that long
creating little splits in the fabric due to the metallic salts
destroying the structure of the fibre. It was not unknown for clothes to
do this during the era as well, even when new. [...] The bodice is lined
in taffeta (tin loaded as well)
_______________
<http://www.bootlegbooks.com/Reference/Webster/data/643.html#Full>
Websters Revised Unabridged Dictionary 1913
Full
(Full), v. t. To thicken by moistening, heating, and pressing, as cloth;
to mill; to make compact; to scour, cleanse, and thicken in a mill.
_______________
<http://www.geocities.com/tefft_family/occupations.html>
Old Occupations
Fuller - One who fulls cloth; one who shrinks and thickens woolen cloth
by moistening, heating, and pressing; one who cleans and finishes cloth.
_______________
<http://www.unc.edu/courses/rometech/public/content/survival/DeRamus_Durham_Laxton/margaretfin.html>
Preparation of Finished Cloth
by Margaret DeRamus
When the cloth had been woven, it would then be taken to the fuller, who
cleaned it. The fullers would tread upon the cloth in a large vat or tub
filled with a
solution of water and fuller's earth, decayed urine, soapwart, or some
kind of
cleaning solution. This process released the dirt and grease, and it
most likely
tightened and thickened the cloth. There is a Roman relief of a Gallic fuller
treading in the vat, which gives us a good idea of what the fuller’s
shop looked like,
as do the remaining Pompeian fuller’s establishments. Pliny wrote of the "creta
fullonica" or the fuller’s earth, when relating it to a medicine he was describing
(Pliny, Book XXIV 3).
[There's much more on that page, including illustrations and a bibliography.]
_______________
<http://www.kbnet.co.uk/brianp/occs.html>
Old Occupations - Fuller & Tuckers
The name fuller derives from the Old French fouller to trample on, and
probably originated from the Latin fullo for a fuller, the man who
fulfilled the essential role of "filling out" or felting the cloth woven
by weavers, Tuckers derives from the Middle English tukere, for a cloth
fuller or finisher. The process of fulling or tucking consists of the
closing together of the threads of woven woollen fabric with the
assistance of soap or acid liquor; this makes the cloth thicker. The
romans practised fulling techniques, so would have introduced the
process to Britain. Until the 13th Century the most common method was to
trample the cloth in tubs and then in streams and this method continued
to be used in Ireland until this century.
[...]
Fulling was a very important process, as the cloth straight from the
loom was too greasy and loose to use. Many fulling mills were built on
farmland since a good many farmers either wove in the winter months to
supplement their income or employed labourers who could weave. Rent for
a "Wake or fulling mill" was 15 shillings a year in 1740 and, about the
same period, it cost between £100 and £150 to erect a water-wheel and
fulling-stock: the great wooden (later iron) hammers which pounded the
cloth and were driven by the wheel. The cloth, as it came from the loom,
was smeared with soap, soda and hot water and trampled in a trough or
wash-tub or, later, between rollers, until all traces of oil or grease
were removed: sheep's wool can be very greasy to handle . Then the
actual fulling took place, when the cloth was passed beneath wooden
mallets, usually three times. The first time the cloth in the trough
between the mallets was steeped in urine, which was collected by the
cask from the cottagers who were paid a penny a bucket. The second
fulling was with the fuller's earth and the third with hot soapy water.
Each pounding lasted two hours, with a final thorough rinsing in clean
water. Some cloth, for example, that destined for shawls, did not need
fulling, but cloth for suitings had to be fulled.
_______________
<http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/textile.html>
12th & 13th Century English Textile Surnames
by Aryanhwy merch Catmael (Sara L. Friedemann)
Fuller, from Old English fullere, Old French fouleor, foleur 'a fuller
of cloth'
Fullo, 1222, 1239, 1240, 1267, 1275
Le Fullere, 1225
Fullonis 1230, 1231
Fuller, 1231, 1240, 1280
Le Fuller, 1250
The Fuller, 1260
Le Fulun, 1270
Le Folur, 1277, 1280
Fulloner, 1285
Fulur, 1286
Le Folour, a.1290
Ashok
>People mispell in every language.
>DT
Indeed!
Ashok
Egidio Leitao
<adhar...@worldbank.org> wrote:
Ashok,
Something got lost between the sentence you quoted and Daniella's initials.
She did not write the misspelled word as attributed above.
--
Egídio
Austin, Texas
via Fortaleza, Ceará
"Que essa fonte que ninguém nunca bebeu é toda sua" (David Duarte)
SDN...@webtv.net
was a little wide of target. Years ago I dated a lady who was a master
in Art History and worked as a restorer of historic costumes in museums
and art collections. (Much like the ones in the photos). She was also a
miniature artist,and satellite cartographer for the government. (Steady
day job.) She explained a lot of things to me about her art, but I seem
not to have remembered it all that precisely. I love it when things get
clarified. I wager the two of you would have valuable conversations .
Thank you for a great sidelight . ( Teach me to try and play with the
big kids before I'm ready.)