Sonny Stitt?
infok...@my-deja.com
person. Does this guy produce now?
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Mark Garvin
>I don't know if this is the right forum to ask for a background on this
>person. Does this guy produce now?
Sonny Stitt is no longer with us. Check allmusic.com for lists
of recordings. If you're looking for recordings, I recommend
'Endgame Brilliance', and also Dizzy Gillespie's 'Sunny Side Up'.
MG
Helge Gundersen [Mr]
contributor), a web search is always good to do first. Then you will be
able to ask more specific questions, if necessary, and get better replies.
Sonny Stitt died in 1982 or 1983 (don't quite remember), and toured and
recorded up to that time. He came up in the 1940's. Many people thought he
sounded like a clone of Charlie Parker, and unfortunately, you can still
find postings here claiming something to that effect. I can recognize
Stitt's alto sax pretty fast when he's played on the radio. (His tenor sax
is maybe a bit tougher to recognize, but can be good anyway.)
Stitt always maintained that he came up with the new bop style in the 40's
independently of Parker. On the one hand, Stitt had a big ego, and was
difficult to deal with. On the other hand, there was a continuum between
swing and bop, and Parker wasn't the only one who brought along the new
style, so why not Stitt, too. (Besides, this question is not far form
immaterial.)
Stitt finally got some well-deserved recognition from the early 70's
onwards. I'm no Stitt expert (just pretending), but it seems that his
output isn't completely even. Some of his best recordings were the LPs
"Tune Up" and "Constellation" from the early 70's. They are reissued
together on a CD from 32 Jazz called "Endgame Brilliance".
It seems to me that the competitive Stitt may not have been the most
profound jazz musician ever, but he was surely not the opposite either.
More than good enough for me, and not at all overrated.
-- Helge
uli_...@my-deja.com
Stockholm concerts with Miles for the first time) resolved to become
more knowlegdgable about him and would also welcome additional
recommendations.
Here is what I would recommend in addtion to what already has been:
Miles in Stockholm with Stitt, Stitt plays Bird, various Stitt/Gene
Ammons albums.
doyle carmody
regarded? was he more burning, mature, realized, searching, probing? i would
have thought the sides for verve and atlantic were the top of his form. but
it seems the 32jazz reissues are met with universal acclaim. like much of
the xanadu material of the same period, i find the rhythm sections souding
dated.
dc
Jazzcorner
A great album in my opinion is also "Sonny Stitt" on the Label Argo.To
recommend are his sessions with the O.P Trio (VERVE) and
"Interaction" with Zoot Sims on the Cadet label.
A real killer is "For musicians only" with Gillespie and Stan Getz on
Verve.
W.B.
<infok...@my-deja.com> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
8n08sg$1df$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> I don't know if this is the right forum to ask for a background on
this
> person. Does this guy produce now?
>
>
Hal Vickery
helge.g...@inl.uio.no (Helge Gundersen [Mr]) wrote:
> Sonny Stitt died in 1982 or 1983 (don't quite remember), and toured and
> recorded up to that time. He came up in the 1940's. Many people thought he
> sounded like a clone of Charlie Parker, and unfortunately, you can still
> find postings here claiming something to that effect. I can recognize
> Stitt's alto sax pretty fast when he's played on the radio. (His tenor sax
> is maybe a bit tougher to recognize, but can be good anyway.)
I think Parker and Stitt sound very similar stylistically. The way I
learned to tell them apart was by their intonation. Parker seemed to play
more sharp and Stitt (on alto) more flat to my ears.
nsmf
Steve Emerson
>
> far from being an expert on Stitt I have recently (after hearing the
> Stockholm concerts with Miles for the first time) resolved to become
> more knowlegdgable about him and would also welcome additional
> recommendations.
>
> Here is what I would recommend in addtion to what already has been:
> Miles in Stockholm with Stitt, Stitt plays Bird, various Stitt/Gene
> Ammons albums.
Some of my favorite Stitt is the early Prestige work with Bud Powell.
Stitt plays tenor, not alto, and with a great, hard sound akin to what
Rollins was already beginning to use, and what Dexter Gordon would
later. And Stitt absolutely swings.
SE.
Mark Garvin
>uli_...@my-deja.com wrote:
>>
>> far from being an expert on Stitt I have recently (after hearing the
>> Stockholm concerts with Miles for the first time) resolved to become
>> more knowlegdgable about him and would also welcome additional
>> recommendations.
>>
>> Here is what I would recommend in addtion to what already has been:
>> Miles in Stockholm with Stitt, Stitt plays Bird, various Stitt/Gene
>> Ammons albums.
Y'know...I expected great things from 'Stitt Plays Bird', but I
didn't care for it--at least compared to his other recordings.
Same for the Stitt/Ammons things that I've heard. I know others
seem to like both.
>Some of my favorite Stitt is the early Prestige work with Bud Powell.
Yep. Stitt/Powell/JJ Johnson. Early recordings, and they sometimes
sound like it, but Great playing.
I also like 'Sits In' with the Oscar Peterson trio, tho I'm not a
huge OP fan.
Another one of my favorites is called 'Sonny Stitt Plays' on
'Fresh Sound' (I believe there are two different recordings with
the same title).
MG
Francois Ziegler
> Another one of my favorites is called 'Sonny Stitt Plays' on
> 'Fresh Sound' (I believe there are two different recordings with
> the same title).
I guess you mean "Sonny Stitt Plays Arrangements From The Pen Of Quincy Jones"
(Roost LP 2204), and I second the motion enthusiastically... The Fresh Sound
seems OOP, but dustygroove still recently had a semi-reasonably priced Japanese
version from 1995 (TOCJ-5976, $16.99). Grab it if you can... magnificent Stitt,
superb scores for tentet... just what Granz should've done with Bird...
The other one could be "Plays Arrangements From The Pen Of Johnny Richards"
(Roost LP 415), never heard...
Francois Z.
Mark Garvin
Hi Francois,
The CD I was referring to is Fresh Sound / Roost FSR-CD92. Just called
"Sonny Stitt Plays". Black and white side view of Sonny with sax, and
(ironically, but appropriately) swirling smoke. I originally heard
the vinyl from my father's collection, and bought the CD on the spot
when I saw the familiar cover.
Tunes are:
There'll never be another you
The nearness of you
Biscuit Mix
Yesterdays
Afterwards (smokin' 'rhythm changes' tune)
If I should lose you
Blues for bobby
My melancholy baby
Stitt, Hank Jones, Freddie Greene, Wendell Marshall (b), Shadow Wilson
The liner notes refer to the "Plays Arrangements of Quincy Jones"
as the 'previous CD'. I guess this was the followup. I thought it
was in print. Sorry for recommending it if it's not available.
MG
Jack Woker
> The CD I was referring to is Fresh Sound / Roost FSR-CD92. Just called
> "Sonny Stitt Plays". Black and white side view of Sonny with sax, and
> (ironically, but appropriately) swirling smoke. I originally heard
> the vinyl from my father's collection, and bought the CD on the spot
> when I saw the familiar cover.
> Stitt, Hank Jones, Freddie Greene, Wendell Marshall (b), Shadow Wilson
This is one of my favorite Stitt albums. The presence of Freddie Green
in the rhythm section lends a Basie-ish feel that really sets Sonny off
nicely.
Stitt was very prolific. Without counting, I'd estimate that he made
well over 60 LP's, amny of them up to a very high standard. Sadly, a
lot his his best work, recorded for Royal Roost, Prestige, Verve, Argo,
and other labels, has yet to make it to CD.
jack
ASILANT57
>Rollins was already beginning to use, and what Dexter Gordon would
>later. And Stitt absolutely swing
I don't think so ..
I can't think of any recording of either
player where the other guy even remote-
ly resembled each other timbrally ..
Dexter Gordon , also, always had a
thicker sound , IMHO .
Dave Williams
ASILANT57
>I think Parker and Stitt sound very similar stylistically. The way I
>learned to tell them apart was by their intonation. Parker seemed to play
>more sharp and Stitt (on alto) more flat to my ears.
>
>nsmf
>
I usually enjoy Sonny Stitt , there's no
question about his passion , conviction
and ability to stretch out for as many
choruses as he desired .
BUT , in my mind , Sonny Stitt cannot
touch Charlie Parker on any level .
Whether Stitt would ever admit it to
anyone , I think he knows that Bird was
Daddy and he was Bird's eldest son .
Sonny Rollins got closer to Bird than
any saxophonist of the era , really close
IMHO..
Bird stands head and shoulders above
Stitt , in what is a crucial area : The way
Parker played <>time<>.. Stitt was very
swinging , but basically - even- in his
note placement and phrase lengths .
He played very cadentially, if that is a
word .. Bird could and did come in on
just about any part of the meter , he was
the ultimate user of space when he
wanted to be ... I believe that Bird influen-
ed Sonny's innovations , the thematic
playing that Sonny was credited with in
the 50s . I've heard many airchecks
where Bird was doing the same things
that basically only Newk really got into
later , and became known for .
Charlie Parker's mind was much more
profound , and his metric faculties much
more developed than Sonny Stitt's .
Bird would play the unexpected and
Stitt seemed to play the cliche's .
Bird had no cliches ... other players made
his shit sound old after a time .
I think that Bird played some things
that I haven't heard any of his followers
get together . BIRD WAS MUCH
HEAVIER than what people acknowledge
often times . To this day I'm amazed
by what he did , the vocabulary that he
created .
As great as Rollins was in the late
50s , and I am a complete Rollins
junkie , I think he was pretty much
Bird on tenor , an astounding feat ; to
really get deep into Parker's concept ,
BUT .. Bird did that already .
Miles remarked that Sonny" was playing
in one of Bird's styles ..." and I see what
he means , upon close inspection .
Rollins developed an uncanny ability
to split up time , but Bird did it 1st ..
Stitt never did .. Stitt also never could
triple up on the time ... Rollins got to
that place ... Bird started that .
Stitt was NOT similiar _stylistically_
to Charlie Parker .
He played Bird licks in a very rote
manner , as well as some of Prez's
shit .
Stitt was cool ..... but he was no
Parker .
ALSO ... I think that Bird's alto sound
was just ``` b e a u t i f u l``` . Stitt
had a thin sound on alto ... I liked him
on Baritone , though .
Dave Williams
Martin Milgrim
'60s to define "jazz". He replied, "Jazz? That's what Sonny Rollins
plays". Coming from a man who played with and revered Bird, it's the
highest praise there is.
Martin
ASILANT57
>do you mean by that?) anyway? And you don't think Stitt could 'triple up
>on the time' (and what do you mean by that?) ?
_______
Ok .. my remarks 1st of all, were a
reaction to the notion that Bird and Stitt
were " very similiar stylistically .." I
don't agree w/ that and that was my point
of departure ... I pointed out some things
that to my ears, were hallmarks of Bird's
thing .
Obviously(to me .) Stitt *didn't* want
to 'split up the time' Maybe Stitt could
'triple' up on the time' but I just never
heard him do it . And , no, I never met
him or saw him live , so maybe my total
knowledge of him is NOT quite total .
You know how many players will play
double time against a given tempo ?
I've heard Bird triple it ; Rollins , triple it ;
Trane, later on with his`sheets of sound`,
period ; get into that zone . See what I
meant ??
What I mean by spiting up time is ,
if I can explain it coherently , playing
against the pulse in a way to cause
tension then resolving the tension by
falling right back in meter swinging as if
nothing happened . Another example of
this time splitting is playing short phrases
or even `chord tones` as the changes roll
by . It's seems much harder to play
this way than it is to play the stock
phraseolgy of the 40s and 50s .
Joe Henderson was another player that
in my mind, really absorbed Bird's way
of playing ; the examples that I've ment-
ioned already . I could cite solo examples
to better illustrate what I'm talking about .
_____
>Stitt could do all those things, and much more.... but he didn't hear it
>like that. I
That was my point ... he didn't hear it
that way , it's obvious to me too . If I
implied that he couldn't , I didn't mean to.
I don't know what Stitt `could` do .. for all
I know , he may have written similiar
changes to Giant Steps while he was in
Lexington kicking heroin in '49 ,but opted
not to bring them to sessions ; who knows
what was in his capacity
/\\//\ Obviously I prefer Bird . /\\//\
___
> to try to cop
>Birds style would be futile... nobody could do it better. So he decided to
>be more a 'melodist'.... to improvise solos in a 'song-ful' way.
This is were I feel there is a mis concep-
tion ( maybe on my part?) when I hear
people refer to someone " playing more
melodically ."
I don't think anyone played `more` so
than Charlie Parker . I say `more` be-
cause , again its a matter of the `way`
it's dealt with . Stan Getz or Paul
Desmond are examples cited as players
who were supreme melodists , right ?
I wonder why Bird isn't recognized as
a supreme melodist , because he was
S U P R E M E .
Look at one of his solos on paper or
better yet L I S T E N ... it's all too
obvious : the quotes from all kinds of
sources , as well as his own ideas .
That is A L L melody . What the hell
else is it ??????? It might have
seemed futile for >Stitt< to try and think
like Bird , cause' he wasn't that guy .
A question : When people refer to
melodic playing , are they saying some-
thing that is easily sung is melodic , and
something more elaborate is automatic-
ally NOT . What exactly makes one idea
melodic and another NOT ???
Anyone ??? I don't get it ...
____
>But he ain't a patch on nobodys ass technique-wise. I've heard him play
>shit that would curl your hair.
>Like Sonny King told me once: "Dont ever try to cut Stitt. 'Cause
>Stitt'll turn around and play your shit back at you."
No doubt about it . Stitt was a burner .
For the way he played he was undoubted-
ly great ... The stuff he would play at
his best did curl my hair . I liked him
more in my earlier playing/listening stages.
I remember on that `Sonny side up`
album feeling that Stitt was really trying
to `cut ` Rollins on `The Eternal Triangle` ;
things got really heated on that track .
I just really dug Rollins more , and
sensed that if he had wanted to could've
steam rolled Stitt , in terms of how Stitt
likes to try and dominate with his lexicon
of licks . There's actually something
kinda rigid and frozen in Stitts playing
that is boring after awhile .
The way it strikes me is that he
was at one time a real marvel in terms
of being the first guy to really seem
comfortable with the basics of Parker's
style . I think he helped other players
psychologically realize that you could
attempt to get into Bird's zone . He
just never did , really . But again this
is coming from my obvious love for
Bird .. so I'm not implying that he wanted
to . Stitt influenced a lot of tenor
players as well .. Stitt was a great ,
great , player .
Dave Williams
Luke Kaven
wished that there were more rhythm sections who could really play like that.
That music is still a living music in NYC, which played host to a number of
its developments. It doesn't diminish over time. I hate to see these myths
about musical languages having a limited lifetime. To make an anology, the
writing of Faulkner, or Joyce, is still living. The writing of Jackie
Collins will become dated. Needless to say, I would put bebop in the former
category.
doyle carmody <do...@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:39943...@news1.prserv.net...
Steve Emerson
>
> >Some of my favorite Stitt is the early Prestige work with Bud Powell.
> >Stitt plays tenor, not alto, and with a great, hard sound akin to what
> >Rollins was already beginning to use, and what Dexter Gordon would
> >later. And Stitt absolutely swing
>
> I don't think so ..
>
> I can't think of any recording of either
> player where the other guy even remote-
> ly resembled each other timbrally ..
Since I don't know what this means, I can't comment.
> Dexter Gordon , also, always had a
> thicker sound , IMHO .
No, not always. Initially he was very much a post-Prez player, with a
light sound. It was later that he developed what we think of as the
Dexter Gordon sound.
SE.
Helge Gundersen [Mr]
so I respect you for what you're actually hearing. But while Stitt most
certainly played in a style very close to Parker, I can hear Stitt's own
identity in more than his tone. He phrases somewhat differently (and, like
Parker and everyone else, has his own pet phrases, of course). I take this
intuitively; that is, I haven't brought to my consciousness what it really
is. Someone else posted that Stitt himself claimed he tried to play more
like melodist. I can't say anything about that.
As for the other poster who said that Bird was head and shoulders above
Stitt, very few people would object to that, no matter what we think of
the stylistic differences and similarities. Parker was much more profound,
no doubt about it, but Stitt could be profound enough to be considered a
great player. Stitt hardly "lacked" profoundness (unlike what some people
seem to think); like many other justly well-known jazz musicians, he
simply wasn't on the level of Charlie Parker. My favorite alto player in
the Parker school is very clearly Sonny Criss, by the way, who even more
than Stitt had his own identity.
As for the rhythm sections on the early 70's dates, I, too, can't hear
that they're dated. They play great, moving like one body together with
Stitt. The music really lifts. They don't sound like they surrender to a
period style, instead being immersed in the music, securing an organic
drive.
But what one person hears as dated, another one doesn't. In fact, very
little in the history of jazz sounds dated to me. Some of the things that
are particularly easily tied to a certain time period (as good as the
music still can be), are some of the early bop (especially the rhythm
section work; the drummer dropping bombs, etc.), the Stravinsky influence
of the late 40's (Boyd Raeburn, etc.), and *some* types of fusion, or
fusion-inspired jazz, in the 70's. Interestingly, some of this can be much
more rewarding than much of the music that sounds more timeless to me.
Helge
In article <hvickery-ya0240800...@nntp.ce.mediaone.net>,
hvic...@svs.com (Hal Vickery) wrote:
> In article <helge.gundersen-...@hfmac452.uio.no>,
> helge.g...@inl.uio.no (Helge Gundersen [Mr]) wrote:
>
> > recorded up to that time. He came up in the 1940's. Many people thought he
> > sounded like a clone of Charlie Parker, and unfortunately, you can still
> > find postings here claiming something to that effect. I can recognize
> > Stitt's alto sax pretty fast when he's played on the radio. (His tenor sax
> > is maybe a bit tougher to recognize, but can be good anyway.)
>
Francois Ziegler
> Hi Francois,
>
> The CD I was referring to is Fresh Sound / Roost FSR-CD92. Just called
> "Sonny Stitt Plays". Black and white side view of Sonny with sax, and
> (ironically, but appropriately) swirling smoke. I originally heard
> the vinyl from my father's collection, and bought the CD on the spot
> when I saw the familiar cover.
"Plays Quincy" also has a B&W side view, but no smoke.
Thanks for clearing it up!
> The liner notes refer to the "Plays Arrangements of Quincy Jones"
> as the 'previous CD'. I guess this was the followup. I thought it
> was in print. Sorry for recommending it if it's not available.
FSR-CD92 is OOP as per their 1999 catalog, but if anyone is interested,
the excellent UC Irvine bookstore still has 3 copies in stock, $14.99
(email: jaha...@uci.edu) Or rather had... now there are 2 left ;-)
Thanks for the tip... I look forward to it.
Francois
Andy
35 or 40 original albums worth.
off the top of my head....
***THREE MUST HAVES***
..Constellation
..SS sits in with Oscar peterson
..Verve jazz masters
**SOME OTHER GOOD STUFF**
..Sonny Stitt MA-753 (vinyl only)
..Blues for Duke
..My Buddy - for Gene Ammons
..12!
..SS meets Brother Jack
..SS, Bud Powell & J.J.Johnson
..Stitt plays Bird
..Last sessions vol 1&2
in fact, pretty much everything I've got
has some damn fine saxophone playing
on it, though for your first Stitt album
I'd avoid these:
**NOT THE FIRST CHOICE**
..legends of acid jazz
..What's New SS plays the varitone
..SS In Brazil With the Zimbo trio
..Live with Miles Davis in copenhagen
------
He died at the end of July 1982,
from complications of throat cancer.
p.s. - IMHO - he was the best ever.
Andy
Glasgow
Scotland