Old jazz tunes & old pop tunes
TJ
the tune from the chorus in Tin Roof Blues. Was this legal or was it
stealing? ...then just the other day I was listening to some old Wingy
Manone sides and the tune being played was Tar Paper Stomp. The tune is
the same (almost) as In the Mood..recorded by Glen Miller (must have
made a pot full of money for him) except that In the Mood had a bridge
and the Stomp doesn't..Was Miller ever challenged on this?....There are
a lot more similarities than differences in these two pieces. How much
of this was legal and acceptable in those days? Any fans or students out
there of classic jazz who have an opinion on this?
TJ
Steven Popkin
--
"TJ" <tjbe...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
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Don Mopsick
"Steven Popkin" <spo...@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
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> How many Jazz songs are based on , " I got rhythm" ?
Many. Except that TJ is talking about melodies, which are copyrightable, and
you are talking about a set of chord changes, which are not.
mop
Hal Vickery
<moph...@landing.com> wrote:
> "Steven Popkin" <spo...@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:wIHz6.11075$lj.9...@typhoon.nyc.rr.com...
> > How many Jazz songs are based on , " I got rhythm" ?
>
> Many. Except that TJ is talking about melodies, which are copyrightable, and
> you are talking about a set of chord changes, which are not.
>
> mop
Mop, I wish you'd continued the thought since you and Froggy are probably
the two biggest experts on early jazz in this group.
I know that several of the earliest jazz tunes were copyrighted by people
other than their composers (Tiger Rag, for example). So the question to me
is, were "Tin Roof Blues" and "Tar Paper Stomp" copyrighted.
The original post also neglected to mention that Horace Henderson also took
the melody from the Manone recording and recorded it as part of "Hot and
Anxious" in the early '30s.
Hal Vickery
Carlos May
: Back in the 50's there was a pop tune called Make love to me which used
: the tune from the chorus in Tin Roof Blues. Was this legal or was it
: stealing?
This sort of thing goes on a lot-- but if I remember correctly from
my conversations with the Roppolo family, they actually did get
a share of the "Make Love To Me" royalties from being copywrite
holders of "Tin Roof". Often this did not happen.
-- F.
--
Fro...@neosoft.com * Froggy's New Orleans Jazz & Mardi Gras Page:
http://www.geocities.com/infrogmation/
Jack Woker
> the tune from the chorus in Tin Roof Blues. Was this legal or was it
> stealing? ...then just the other day I was listening to some old Wingy
> Manone sides and the tune being played was Tar Paper Stomp. The tune is
> the same (almost) as In the Mood..recorded by Glen Miller (must have
> made a pot full of money for him) except that In the Mood had a bridge
> and the Stomp doesn't..Was Miller ever challenged on this?
The composer of In the Mood is actually Joe Garland - although Miller was
not the first to record it, it was his band that had the big hit.
Traditional jazz fans have known for a long time that the riff existed long
before In the Mood was created. Manone also recorded it a few years later
as Jumpy Nerves.
Although I have no way of checking it, I believe that the composer credit on
Make Love To Me may be the same as Tin Roof Blues, with the addition of
whoever wrote the lyrics.
jack
Michael Laprarie
Mood":
"Hot And Anxious" - composed by Horace Henderson and recorded by Fletcher
Henderson; composer is credited as Don Redman on McKinney's Cotton Pickers'
recording of the same tune...
"Tar Paper Stomp" - composed and recorded by Wingy Manone
"There's Rhythm in Harlem" - composed by Joe Garland and recorded by Lucky
Millinder
"In The Mood" - composed by Joe Garland and recorded by Artie Shaw as a
plodding, 4-minute piece. Recorded by Glenn Miller in an abbreviated
version with a much faster tempo.
You all might also remember that "The Hucklebuck" was based pretty much
note-for-note on Bird's "Now's The Time". Of course, there are all the King
Pleasure records like "Moody's Mood For Love" and "Parker's Mood." By the
way, no one ever mentions this but Thelonius Monk's well-known
"Rhythm-a-ning" is based note for note on a riff from Mary Lou Williams'
"Walkin' and Swingin'" that she recorded with the Andy Kirk band in the
1930's. And Charles Mingus delighted in writing tunes based on riffs or
lines from other composers, most notably Duke Ellington. "MDM (Monk Duke
and Me)" and "Monk, Bunk, and Other Funk" readily come to mind.
Jazz, probably more than any other musical art form, is rooted in students
learning how to play largely by copying solos from established players. So
I guess it's natural for musicians to continue to use licks or riffs when
they write tunes. Maybe Charles Mingus put it best - "If Charlie Parker
Were A Gunslinger There Would Be A Lot Of Dead Copycats".
Mike
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