Drummers on Weather Report's "Black Market"
Matt Teichman
The album annoyingly comes with no liner notes. The AMG
(http://www.allmusic.com) credits Narada Michael Walden and Chester
Thompson as the drummers. Or do they both drum on all the songs?
thanks,
-Matt Teichman
Arndt
nothing of Walden though.
Dan B.
both so buried in the awful mix that it is practically impossible to
hear any drumming anyway. The drum mix is definitely too low to
distinguish between Chester & Narada: I'm pretty sure there's only one
drummer on each track though. (I remember Chester complaining how he had
been 'buried' in this mix, while Zawinul's chessy keyboards had been
pushed way up. Oh well, I guess that's what happens when you're the
'so-called' leader of the group.) It's a shame, because with that
personnel Black Market could have been a landmark fusion album, but what
it is really is a poorly sounding and mixed hodgepodge. (I haven't heard
the new 20-bit version, but I'm sure the mix is the same.)
Arndt wrote:
>
> The liner notes I had only mentioned Chester Thompson for all songs,
> nothing of Walden though.
--
"I don’t want to spend my life explaining myself. Either you get it or
you don’t." -- Frank Zappa
Kevin Spencer
>The liner notes I had only mentioned Chester Thompson for all songs,
>nothing of Walden though.
Is this the same Chester Thompson who plays keyboards with Santana?
Kevin
Dan B.
George Duke, Genesis, etc. If you want to hear some great
rock/jazz/funk/fusion drumming pick up Zappa's 'One Size Fits All' CD to
hear this Chester Thompson in all his glory.
--
Bob Gorry
I pulled out my vinyl which has liner notes. In the Credits it has
Chester Thomson playing drums. It also notes that Narada Michael Walden
plays on two tracks (Black Market and Cannon Ball). It is unclear
whether Chester is playing on those tracks as well.
Bob
rgo...@snet.net
msv...@pluto.mscc.huji.ac.il
> personnel Black Market could have been a landmark fusion album, but what
> it is really is a poorly sounding and mixed hodgepodge. (I haven't heard
> the new 20-bit version, but I'm sure the mix is the same.)
>
I never paid any attention to bad mixing; sometimes you just have to
enjoy the music, and for me BM is my favorite fusion
album, and I like it much more then Heavy Weather.
Victor Eijkhout
> If you want to hear some great
> rock/jazz/funk/fusion drumming pick up Zappa's 'One Size Fits All' CD to
> hear this Chester Thompson in all his glory.
Also volume two of YCDTOSA: at one point Zappa starts a song over "good
god, what happened to you last night" then starts it over yet again
counting really slow "it's too fast for you" and you hear Thompson play
this amazing drum break again, now at approximately half speed. Mind
blowing in a perverted way.
--
Victor Eijkhout
To appease the censor, in the US release [of Eyes Wide Shut] the revel-
lers' extremities have been artfully covered by digitally inserted fig-
ures in what the critic Roger Ebert calls "the Austin Powers version".
Nordwell, Kurt (BNR:BNRTP:3I38)
> Dan B. <dan...@erols.com> wrote:
>
> > If you want to hear some great
> > rock/jazz/funk/fusion drumming pick up Zappa's 'One Size Fits All' CD to
> > hear this Chester Thompson in all his glory.
>
> Also volume two of YCDTOSA: at one point Zappa starts a song over "good
> god, what happened to you last night" then starts it over yet again
> counting really slow "it's too fast for you" and you hear Thompson play
> this amazing drum break again, now at approximately half speed. Mind
> blowing in a perverted way.
I second the recommendation for YCDTOSA Vol 2. The instrumentals are
incredible, the solos very good (inca roads, pygmy twilight, etc), the band
is very (understatement) tight, great tune selection, etc. In fact this is
probably my favorite Zappa, and I have them all. Dupree's Paradise is awesome.
Peace,
Kurt
PS - I really like George Duke on this release as well.
webmaster
> Both Chester Thompson & Narada play on Black Market, though they are
> both so buried in the awful mix that it is practically impossible to
> hear any drumming anyway. The drum mix is definitely too low to
> distinguish between Chester & Narada: I'm pretty sure there's only one
> drummer on each track though. (I remember Chester complaining how he had
> been 'buried' in this mix, while Zawinul's chessy keyboards had been
> pushed way up. Oh well, I guess that's what happens when you're the
> 'so-called' leader of the group.) It's a shame, because with that
> personnel Black Market could have been a landmark fusion album, but what
> it is really is a poorly sounding and mixed hodgepodge. (I haven't heard
> the new 20-bit version, but I'm sure the mix is the same.)
>
> Arndt wrote:
> >
> > The liner notes I had only mentioned Chester Thompson for all songs,
> > nothing of Walden though.
What label released the new 20 bit version? I haven't seen or heard of it.
Where can I find it?
Richard Thurston
dan...@erols.com wrote:
> Both Chester Thompson & Narada play on Black Market, though they are
> both so buried in the awful mix that it is practically impossible to
> hear any drumming anyway. The drum mix is definitely too low to
> distinguish between Chester & Narada: I'm pretty sure there's only one
> drummer on each track though. (I remember Chester complaining how he
had
> been 'buried' in this mix, while Zawinul's chessy keyboards had been
> pushed way up. Oh well, I guess that's what happens when you're the
> 'so-called' leader of the group.)
What an odd comment. Far from 'so-called' leader of the group Zawinul
was in fact the co-founder and main composer of Weather Report.
Nothing 'so-called' about it. Not to disrespect Chester Thompson but
I'd venture to say Mr. Zawinul has had rather a larger impact on the
music than has Chester. "Cheesy keyboards"? Not to these ears. To me,
Zawinul was then and remains today one of the few devotees of
electronics who is able to make the machines seem organic and human
sounding.
It's a shame, because with that
> personnel Black Market could have been a landmark fusion album, but
what
> it is really is a poorly sounding and mixed hodgepodge. (I haven't
heard
> the new 20-bit version, but I'm sure the mix is the same.)
>
> Arndt wrote:
> >
> > The liner notes I had only mentioned Chester Thompson for all songs,
> > nothing of Walden though.
>
> --
> "I don’t want to spend my life explaining myself. Either you get it or
> you don’t." -- Frank Zappa
>
In spite of a couple of unfortunately wimpy tracks Black Market is
indeed first-rate. The title tune remains one of the very best of their
many outstanding themes.
Richard Thurston
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Robert J. Dewar
> > personnel Black Market could have been a landmark fusion album, but
> what
> > it is really is a poorly sounding and mixed hodgepodge. (I haven't
> heard
> > the new 20-bit version, but I'm sure the mix is the same.)
> >
Ummm.. I think I missed this. Are there new,remastered versions of Weather
Report out there? I had heard of Zawinul talking about a box set,but that
appears to have been a pipe dream.
Robert J Dewar
Nepean, Ontario,Canada
Mark Polis
album "8:30" recently and was horrified at what Peter Erskine did to
"Birdland" - why the heck he shifted into 6/8 instead of playing it straight
ahead totally escapes me - it totally forfeited all of its intensity and
forward motion. I just can't believe Erskine would slaughter ANYTHING like
that - he's usually so right on for correct feel.
Anybody?
--
o-----«Ť Mark Polis Ť mjp...@csrlink.net Ť»-----o
--
Robert J. Dewar wrote in message <7r3cuv$c...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>...
Dan B.
a tasteful, but mild, jazz drummer. Straight-eighth grooves are not his
forte: he just doesn't "lay deep enough in the groove" for me when it
comes to 'fusiony' type stuff. He should stick with the ballads (as it
appears he's been doing anyway recently if you've heard his playing
these days.) He just ain't funky.
--
Robert Schuh
> Ouch, you're just asking for it with that one but here goes: Erskine is
> a tasteful, but mild, jazz drummer. Straight-eighth grooves are not his
> forte: he just doesn't "lay deep enough in the groove" for me when it
> comes to 'fusiony' type stuff. He should stick with the ballads (as it
> appears he's been doing anyway recently if you've heard his playing
> these days.) He just ain't funky.
>
I think Peter's Weather Report days were incredible. His straight eighth stuff was
incredible on those albums and especially live.
--
Robert Schuh
"There Can be Only One!"
Trane, Jaco, Jimi and Bird are GODS!
Donate your organs. Save a life.
quattronut
it was still wonderful, I found it not as interesting.. I am still into
the first couple albums. That is so cool stuff!
Richard Thurston
Joe Silver <joews...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Richard Thurston wrote:
> >
> > ...Far from 'so-called' leader of the group Zawinul
> > was in fact the co-founder and main composer of Weather Report...To
> > me, Zawinul was then and remains today one of the few devotees of
> > electronics who is able to make the machines seem organic and human
> > sounding.
>
> composed by Mr. Z. It was great to hear the compositions of Wayne
> Shorter in larger doses than one usually got on a Weather Report
album,
> where Shorter (who is nothing less than a national treasure, IMHO) was
> tragically forced to take a back seat to the Joemeister and his
> overrated noodlings. Like dan...@erols.com, though, I would love to
hear
> these tunes with more "democratic" mixes, without the dense thicket of
> keyboards. (For a particularly ludicrous mix, check out the title
track
> from "Mr. Gone." Is there any bass guitar on this track? If so, it's
> totally swamped by the synth bass. As for Tony Williams'
> contribution...well, why did they even bother bringing him in? The
drums
> can barely be heard.)
>
> Yes, Joe Zawinul was unquestionably the leader of Weather Report — for
> better or worse.
>
>
Not even that simple as it turns out. Saw Shorter a couple of years
back (touring in support of High Life as I recall) and while I would
certainly agree he is a national treasure, the sheen is a bit faded to
me. The band he toured with guitar, bass, drums, percussion and
featured a couple of keyboardists (Rachel Z just to keep a Z in the
band)who played with all of the volume of Joe Zawinul but with little
of the color and, yes, subtlety. Wayne periodically blasted away over
the top of the cacaphony on tenor but gave far too much space to the
keyboardists. Major disappointment. I don't disagree necessarily re:
the mixes becoming more 'democratic', but it seems, at least to this
listener, the Westher Report sound was pretty intentionally created by
the two principals of the group.
--
Joe G
might come down to what you are used to hearing, so when something different
happens, it goes against everything that you've become accustomed to, upon
repeated listenings over the years......
Sometimes people don't like harmonies that have been re-vamped as well......it
all comes down to taste doesn't it?........artistic freedom?......
thanks
joe G
Mark Polis wrote:
> To sway a bit off topic, I happened to be listening to Weather Report's
> album "8:30" recently and was horrified at what Peter Erskine did to
> "Birdland" - why the heck he shifted into 6/8 instead of playing it straight
> ahead totally escapes me - it totally forfeited all of its intensity and
> forward motion. I just can't believe Erskine would slaughter ANYTHING like
> that - he's usually so right on for correct feel.
> Anybody?
> --
> o-----«* Mark Polis * mjp...@csrlink.net *»-----o
Curt
> I made myself a compilation tape years ago of Weather Report tunes not
> composed by Mr. Z. It was great to hear the compositions of Wayne
> Shorter in larger doses than one usually got on a Weather Report album,
> where Shorter (who is nothing less than a national treasure, IMHO) was
> tragically forced to take a back seat to the Joemeister and his
> overrated noodlings. Like dan...@erols.com, though, I would love to hear
> these tunes with more "democratic" mixes, without the dense thicket of
> keyboards. (For a particularly ludicrous mix, check out the title track
> from "Mr. Gone." Is there any bass guitar on this track? If so, it's
> totally swamped by the synth bass. As for Tony Williams'
> contribution...well, why did they even bother bringing him in? The drums
> can barely be heard.)
>
> Yes, Joe Zawinul was unquestionably the leader of Weather Report — for
> better or worse.
The reason Mr. Gone sounded like a Zawinul album is because it was. To
quote Zawinul from a 1984 interview (which I just happened to have handy
:-)):
[After touring following the release of Heavy Weather] "we had to do
another album, but because Wayne was doing a lot of music outside the
band, he didn't have much music for us. I was working on a solo album at
the time, so we used most of this material for Mr. Gone. This was the
first album I cut at home. It was an experimental album for me. Steve
Gadd and Tony Williams played drums on it, and we cut it on eight tracks."
If I recall correctly, Shorter didn't have much in the way of
contributions because he was recording and touring with Herbie Hancock's
V.S.O.P. Quintet. In any event, you're not the only one who didn't like
Mr. Gone. It received a one-star review in Downbeat (after five-star
reviews for Black Market and Heavy Weather), and Downbeat ran a rather
lively post-review interview with the band regarding the poor review.
For my money, the best drummer to work with Zawinul was Paco Sery, who can
be heard on the Zawinul Syndicate live album. An amazing drummer.
Curt
Tom Pohorsky
>For my money, the best drummer to work with Zawinul was Paco Sery, who can
>be heard on the Zawinul Syndicate live album. An amazing drummer.
Omar Hakim does some sytlin' work on the Procession album, and on the
associated tour. He gets my vote.
--
- Tom Pohorsky tomp at Netcom dot com
Richard Thurston
>
Eric Gravatt. His playing on 'Live on Tokyo' from 1972 is ferocious
and, along with Miroslav Vitous formed a brilliant rhythm section.
Curt Bianchi
<joews...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> For the record, though, I didn't say I didn't like "Mr. Gone." I enjoyed
> some of the material on it, in particular Jaco's "River People" and
> "Punk Jazz," and one of Mr. Humility's better compositions, "Young and
> Fine." I just thought it was even more keyboard-heavy than most of
> Weather Report's other albums, to the point of self-parody.
My bad! I guess the mix didn't bother me so much, but then I'm a keyboard
player, so what do you expect!
Richard Thurston wrote:
> Eric Gravatt. His playing on 'Live on Tokyo' from 1972 is ferocious
> and, along with Miroslav Vitous formed a brilliant rhythm section.
Funny you should mention Eric Gravatt. I just posted this excerpt from a
1984 Zawinul interview on the weather-report mailing list
(http://www.onelist.com/community/weather-report):
"On the second album [I Sing the Body Electric], side two was a live recording
from Japan. Eric Gravatt [drums] was in the band and we were cooking already.
But we realized that even though it was a good record, we had to make a living.
I have a big family, and Wayne has a big family. Somehow we had to survive.
I had come out of Cannonball's band, and naturally, I wanted to play a little
funkier than we were playing at the time. Miroslav, being a great bass player
in one way, was not the bass player for other things we wanted to do. I had
written a few pieces like "Boogie Woogie Waltz" and "125th Street Congress" for
the third album [Sweetnighter] which required a little more versatility. Eric
Gravatt was not the drummer on these tunes; not that he couldn't have done it,
but with him it was a mental thing. He just didn't have his heart in it. As
a plain jazz drummer, I think he's the greatest we have ever had, with perhaps
the exception of Peter Erskine or Omar Hakim. So we had to hire a drummer and
a bassist to play the grooves we wanted. It was an awkward situation. Here
we had a band and we had to hire outside musicians to play instruments which
were already supposed to be played by members of the band--it started getting
weird."
Of Paco Sery, Zawinul recently said, "The best drummer I've ever heard or
played with, and I've played with them all," Zawinul says.
Curt
John Purves
Black Market
Nadra Michael Walden, Drums
Don Elias, Percussion
Cannon Ball
Nadra Michael Walden, drums
Gibraltar, Elegant People, Three Clowns, Herandnu
Chester Thompson, Drums
Alex Acuna, Percussion
Barbary Coast
Chester Thompson, Drums
Don Elias, Percussion
Also, Alphonso Johnson plays bass guitar on all tracks except Cannon Ball
and Barbary Coast which are Jaco of course.
--
jp
please remove "s" in header to respond.
drumguru
--
George Lawrence
drumset artist, teacher, author
Nashville TN
SEE ROCK CITY
(or my business website constantly under
construction at http://www.drumguru.com)
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