Here's what I don't get about Kenny G.
JimValiant
he can, but chooses not to, and instead plays that bullshit he plays? If he is
not a competent jazz player, why bother hating him? He's not a jazz player. He
neither can, nor does he try, to play real jazz. He just plays pop with a
saxophone. If he can, and just chooses not to, so that he can make money
playing that shit that he plays, LET'S KILL HIM!!!!
Mike C.
"JimValiant" <jimva...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021103193208...@mb-bk.aol.com...
He can't play real jazz. He can't even play in tune.
void
> Is he so despised by jazz fans because he sucks and can't play jazz, or because
> he can, but chooses not to, and instead plays that bullshit he plays?
Neither. It's because the stuff he plays is falsely marketed as jazz.
If he were billed as contemporary R&B, then R&B fans would hate him instead.
--
Ben
"An art scene of delight
I created this to be ..." -- Sun Ra
Eric
No, the painful death belongs to those that argue here that what he
produces is actually jazz. I have no problem with Mr.G. It's the trolls
that argue that his music is jazz with which I have a problem.
--
Better than hearing "Lady Day", or checking in at Monterey...
[Remove bodies from address for email.]
Wdflannery
even recognize jazz think that they can demonstrate their superiority by
criticizing someone who can. Get it?
Tralfaz
between Kenny G. and "true Jazz" is about the same as the difference between the
yellow fizzy stuff produced by Budweiser and "real Beer".
I'll take an anchor Steam or a Guiness with my Coltrane anyday. You enjoy your
Bud Light and Mr. G. Both of us will be happy in our own little worlds.
Tralfaz
The album cover Art Gallery: http://tralfaz-archives.com/coverart/coverart.html
Someone
"Wdflannery" <wdfla...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021104120710...@mb-mw.aol.com...
Yeah, I do.
It's an opportunity for blowhards to sound off.
Ok, quick show of hands here - how many people like Kenny G's music?
Kenny's Mom
> Ok, quick show of hands here - how many people like Kenny G's music?
Me!
Someone
"Kenny's Mom" <c...@aa.bin> wrote in message
news:TJby9.1190$5a....@tornado.fastwebnet.it...
>
> > Ok, quick show of hands here - how many people like Kenny G's music?
>
>
> Me!
>
The score so far:
Like KG - 1
Others - 0
Eric
Yeah..."Kenny's Mom" has been the only one to come forward and support
her son. How sad.
Someone
"Eric" <knip...@coxbody.net> wrote in message
news:3DC9971B...@coxbody.net...
> Someone wrote:
>
> > "Kenny's Mom" <c...@aa.bin> wrote in message
> > news:TJby9.1190$5a....@tornado.fastwebnet.it...
> > >
> > > > Ok, quick show of hands here - how many people like Kenny G's music?
> > >
> > >
> > > Me!
> > >
> >
> > The score so far:
> >
> > Like KG - 1
> > Others - 0
>
> Yeah..."Kenny's Mom" has been the only one to come forward and support
> her son. How sad.
Indeed.
The whipping boy of rmb.
JimValiant
the question, and I'd really like to know: Is Kenny G. known to be a competent
jazz player when he wants, and just chooses not to? Or can he not really play
jazz? Also, what is thought of Grover Washington, Jr.'s ability to play real
jazz? Is he respected?
Mike C.
Grover could play. He did a great standards disc that shows how natural and
comfortable he is in that style, doing "Stella..." and "Stolen Moments".
Kenny can't. Can't even play the pop shit in tune. His standards disc had to
make use of playing along with a lame-ass Louis Armstrong recording in order
to validate his jazz playing. He really can't play.
Someone
find Kenny playing in a style other than the one frequently derided in rmb.
"JimValiant" <jimva...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021106185409...@mb-cm.aol.com...
Richard Thurston
Saw The Jeff Lorber Fusion open (close actually) for Miles Davis back
in the 1980's. Around the time of "You're Under Arrest" .
The image of Kenny G holding a single note for minutes on end during
his alleged solos with all of those curls shaking is still etched in
my brain.
Ghastly.
Richard Thurston
JC Martin
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: Here's what I don't get about Kenny G.
> You might have to go back to the recordings of The Jeff Lorber Fusion to
> find Kenny playing in a style other than the one frequently derided in
rmb.
Don't bother. I bought one of these for $.25 and to this day still regret
the purchase. If you want to prove once and for all what a hack this guy
is, go out and sicken yourself. But don't say I didn't warn you.
-JC
Someone
"I've learned that you simply can't control those bad vibes," he says. "I've
never personally criticized anyone else's music, but I know that the
public's real problem is not the music I make but the perception that I play
simple music for money only and for the notoriety and to increase my
popularity. Like, with my background, I could be playing 'real' jazz, but
I'm selling out."
"Let me answer that by saying that's the wrong assumption," he continues.
"What I do has never been contrived to sell 'X' amount of records, it's just
that I have a certain style of composing and playing that I enjoy. Sure, I
could play 'real jazz,' but there would be no meaning in it for me. It's
been done a thousand times better than I could ever do it. I really create
everything I do from the heart. The critics like to get on me that my stuff
is elevator music or whatever, but I noticed that the same critics said they
admired my technique on the albums I did before Duotones took off in 1986."
Someone
"Richard Thurston" <ric...@groverthurston.com> wrote in message
news:dralsu8c8aqo5ujh5...@4ax.com...
>
> Saw The Jeff Lorber Fusion open (close actually) for Miles Davis back
> in the 1980's. Around the time of "You're Under Arrest" .
Imagine that. Did Miles have some choice about the bands that opened or
closed for him?
Someone
"JC Martin" <jcma...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:LZAy9.46766$Ik.11...@typhoon.sonic.net...
I wonder which album you bought? KG appeared on only 2.
Since you had such a vehement reaction, I wondered if I had missed
something. So this morning I put on Wizard Island and have been enjoying it
quite a bit. Thanks, JC.
Maybe you could be a little bit more forthcoming about which performances -
or which aspects of specific performances - you find hackneyed.
Richard Thurston
I imagine the promoter made this unfortunate decision.
Richard Thurston
Someone
Perhaps the same promoter that convinced Miles to record with Jeff Lorber?
void
>
Not always. According to the Troupe book, Bill Graham set up some shows
where Miles' electric band was to open for Steve Miller Band. Miles
wouldn't open for a "non-playing motherfucker" like Steve Miller, so he
showed up so late that Miller was forced to open for him instead.
A shitty move, to be sure, but I find it hard to argue with Miles'
judgment as to who was appropriately to open for whom.
Wdflannery
>jazz player when he wants,
G is not a bad jazz player. Does he play jazz? Of course. The thing is, the
world is now full of unbelievably good jazz players who aren't making a dime.
So, G pales by comparison to many of these cats (no pun intended!), for
example, I was just listening to an incredible solo by Pee Wee Ellis ( at
http://64.21.68.211/features.htm about 7 minutes into "Mo Roots") , who has
labored long and hard in James Brown's band to little or no acclaim. Comparing
Pee Wee to G, there's no comparison. So, is G just an average player? On some
scale, yes, but he has a melodic gift as witnessed by his big hit on soprano.
The notion that any good player can play (and write?) a ballad so that people
want, and will pay, to hear is nonsense. He also wrote a great tune "Midnite
Motion" and played a screaming solo in the Grover tradition. G's altissimo is
killin. Can GW play jazz. No question. A great player.
Eric
> G is not a bad jazz player. Does he play jazz? Of course.
When?
still...@webtv.net
stereo
Someone
> Wdflannery wrote:
>
> > G is not a bad jazz player. Does he play jazz? Of course.
>
> When?
You didn't read the entire message? The writer gave you an example:
Someone
> The notion that any good player can play (and write?) a ballad so that
people
> want, and will pay, to hear is nonsense.
Of course it is, but you'll not hear such reasonableness in this ng.
Jasbird
>Wdflannery wrote:
>
>> G is not a bad jazz player. Does he play jazz? Of course.
>
>When?
Eric,
Is it really worth your time slagging off Kenny G? Or is it a waste of
time. It's obvious that someone who'd play a Kenny G album in preference
to thousands of other jazz albums (including hundreds of classics) has
no musical taste whatsoever - these people aren't going to hear what you
say because they're already death. Well, at least that Kenny G keeps
them happy. If they can't appreciate art - too bad - for them.
So why continue this pointless flame war?
Or, what I really mean to say. We should be talking about great music
here - not garbage.
Someone
"Jasbird" <jasbird@> wrote in message
news:4ohssucvu987gf76h...@4ax.com...
> So why continue this pointless flame war?
>
> Or, what I really mean to say. We should be talking about great music
> here - not garbage.
If you'd really like to see an end to this so-called "pointless flame war,"
perhaps you could start by using less inflammatory language.
Mike C.
When he's not playing the same notes over in over with circular breathing,
and when he's not playing incredibly sharp, out of tune. Oh, wait. He's
always out of tune. Hmmmm.
Adam Bravo
news:4ohssucvu987gf76h...@4ax.com...
First of all, what is "garbage?" Garbage is stuff people throw into the
trash, so you need to define garbage as used here (oh yes, and if you were
thinking about just saying "Kenny G," it makes you appear stupid)*.
Also, this group is meant for discussion of jazz, whether it be garbage or
the greatest ever.
Eric
> >> G is not a bad jazz player. Does he play jazz? Of course.
> >
> >When?
>
> Eric,
>
> Is it really worth your time slagging off Kenny G?
It takes very little time to type the word "when." Much less time
than your reply, as a matter of fact.
> So why continue this pointless flame war?
Asking a question ("when?") is a flame?
> Or, what I really mean to say. We should be talking about great music
> here - not garbage.
Like you do, right?
Someone
"Mike C." <Funki...@MSN.com> wrote in message
news:M1vz9.42370$og.8...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
"If you like playing out of tune, hey, play out of tune. Who's to say what's
in tune? Go and follow whatever you think is best."
Interview with Susan Alcorn
by Matt Rhodes
Steel Guitar World Magazine
November 1999 No. 42
http://www.heatherleighcreative.com/susanalcorn/steelguitarworldinterview.ht
ml
----------
"Naturally, these enhancements clarify the bad as well as the good, most
strikingly the out of tune piano. It seems amazing that [Miles] Davis and
[Bill] Evans tolerated this; it's usually bad enough dealing with this sort
of thing in clubs!"
Pual Hofmann
http://www.mhrrecords.com/html/essay06.html
----------
"I ran into trouble with the A&R man at Mercury Records over the organ solo
in that song," he recalls. "I guess he thought it was out of tune, but I
think there's something beautiful about 'out of tune.' I don't think the
record-buying public thinks about music in that academic way. They'll just
dig it if they're given a chance."
TERRY ADAMS
NRBQ
http://users.loa.com/~ceol/rockn.html
----------
"I have listened to so many Charlie Parker recordings where he is playing
out of tune. . . "
NICK CATALANO
Professor of Music and Literature at Pace University
http://www.jazzweekly.com/interviews/catalano.htm
JC Martin
news:aqllaa$1a4d$1...@nwall2.odn.ne.jp...
Look within.
-JC
Someone
If by this you mean I have myself used inflammatory language, then I invite
you to post a few examples here that were not directed at either you or Mike
C (who sometimes get what they give).
JC Martin
You hide behind a fake name and troll the newsgroup consistently with the
smooth jazz angle. Your entire purpose here is to inflame, is it not?
-JC
Mike C.
That's pretty obvious to all who read this group, JC. What I'm missing is
where there is a flame war here. I haven't seen any inflammatory language,
as cited by Jasbird, nor do I see inflammatory language as cited by the
troll Someone.
void
>
> If by this you mean I have myself used inflammatory language, then I invite
> you to post a few examples here that were not directed at either you or Mike
> C (who sometimes get what they give).
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22tit+for+tat+with+forgiveness%22
Someone
In other words, you have no specific examples.
Someone
"Mike C." <Funki...@MSN.com> wrote in message
Hardly surprising that someone who uses insults so freely would see nothing
unusual in this thread.
Tralfaz
to start debating the validity of Michael Bolton are we?
On another note, I picked up a 4 CD Miles Davis set named "The Columbia Years"
yesterday. Anyone have any insight on what I'm to expect when I get a chance to
listen to it?
Thanks for your time,
Tralfaz
The Album Cover Art Gallery: http://tralfaz-archives.com/coverart/coverart.html
Epistrophy
Mr. Gorelick and jazz:
http://music.barnesandnoble.com/features/interview.asp?NID=598266
- Todd
JC Martin
Again, look within our little nameless troll. Just possibly you're capable
of self-reflection?
-JC
Mike C.
Well, you may notice that it takes very little energy to quote what I
sincerely asked about, but the troll apparently finds it more amusing to try
to stir up shit. To him I reply: Overcome your fears you must, young
Skywalker. Let the force guide you.
Or something like that.
;-)
Dennis J. Kosterman
wrote:
> ... nor do I see inflammatory language as cited by the
>troll Someone.
Repeatedly calling him a troll could be interpreted as inflammatory.
Dennis J. Kosterman
den...@tds.net
Bongo Z. McCongo
> So now that this discussion has run its course and is winding down we're not going
> to start debating the validity of Michael Bolton are we?
>
> On another note, I picked up a 4 CD Miles Davis set named "The Columbia Years"
> yesterday. Anyone have any insight on what I'm to expect when I get a chance to
> listen to it?
skip the insight and just listen to it
Someone
In other words, you have no specific examples. Perhaps before making
accusations, you should be prepared to back them up.
Someone
"Mike C." <Funki...@MSN.com> wrote in message
Just can't resist me, can you, Obi-wan? The killfile didn't protect you,
and neither did your concentrated effort to ignore me. Now you're
responding to me indirectly through a contrived conversation with JC.
Plus, you steal my licks!
Looking forward to your next chapter.
JC Martin
> accusations, you should be prepared to back them up.
What accusations? That you're a nameless troll who seeks to discuss Kenny
G. and smooth jazz consistently in order to inflame the newsgroup? That's
farily obvious to most here.
Look within. You may find there's something you need to change.
-JC
JC Martin
news:3dd07774...@news.tds.net...
> On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 17:41:54 GMT, "Mike C." <Funki...@MSN.com>
> wrote:
>
> > ... nor do I see inflammatory language as cited by the
> >troll Someone.
>
> Repeatedly calling him a troll could be interpreted as inflammatory.
The best trolls however are incapable of self-reflection or of being
inflamed. They have a game plan...and that game-plan is to piss people off,
draw attention to themselves, etc. All the while they chuckle at what they
perceive as their witty brilliance. Pretty sad.
-JC
Eric
[...100+ lines of quotes deleted.]
> Looking forward to your next chapter.
Looking forward to the day you either a) learn to edit your quotes,
or b) take your pissing contests to email.
Someone
> "Someone" <shri...@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
> > In other words, you have no specific examples. Perhaps before making
> > accusations, you should be prepared to back them up.
>
>
> What accusations?
You forgot this part:
"Gee, I don't know what you're talking about."
Someone
> "Dennis J. Kosterman" <den...@tds.net> wrote in message
> news:3dd07774...@news.tds.net...
> > On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 17:41:54 GMT, "Mike C." <Funki...@MSN.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > ... nor do I see inflammatory language as cited by the
> > >troll Someone.
> >
> > Repeatedly calling him a troll could be interpreted as inflammatory.
>
>
> The best trolls however are incapable of self-reflection or of being
> inflamed.
Which has what to do with the point he was making?
Jasbird
>"Jasbird" <jasbird@> wrote in message
>news:4ohssucvu987gf76h...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 09 Nov 2002 20:25:55 GMT, Eric <knip...@coxbody.net> wrote:
>> So why continue this pointless flame war?
>>
>> Or, what I really mean to say. We should be talking about great music
>> here - not garbage.
>
>First of all, what is "garbage?" Garbage is stuff people throw into the
>trash, so you need to define garbage as used here (oh yes, and if you were
>thinking about just saying "Kenny G," it makes you appear stupid)*.
Garbage - sounds that show no particular signs of art - I'd rather
listen to a teenager practice than listen to Kenny G - because at least
the teenager might do something unexpected. Who was it who called jazz
the 'sound of surprise' [1]?; that's a concept Kenny G never picked up
on - and that's why I call his muzak garbage.
>Also, this group is meant for discussion of jazz, whether it be garbage or
>the greatest ever.
What can you say about music that is pastiche and boring - like Kenny G.
My problem with 'Someone' and musicians like Kenny G is that I don't
want to be bored to sleep listening to them or reading about them -
because there is nothing interesting to say.
I notice that the smooth jazz fans here hardly ever participate in a
thread where they're discussing particular aspects of their favorite
artists' muzak - that's not surprising - what can be said that hasn't
already been said about it?
Note 1: "When the American jazz critic Whitney Balliett coined the
phrase "The Sound of Surprise" back in 1959 as the title for one of his
many books on the music, he may have had a sneaking suspicion that it
would resonate through what was left of jazz's first century. It
captures a quality which many feel is the paramount one in jazz music,
that ability to grab the listener's expectations and turn them upside
down."
Adam Bravo
> On Sun, 10 Nov 2002 16:05:26 GMT, "Adam Bravo" <mra...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> >"Jasbird" <jasbird@> wrote in message
> >news:4ohssucvu987gf76h...@4ax.com...
> >> On Sat, 09 Nov 2002 20:25:55 GMT, Eric <knip...@coxbody.net> wrote:
> >> So why continue this pointless flame war?
> >>
> >> Or, what I really mean to say. We should be talking about great music
> >> here - not garbage.
> >
> >First of all, what is "garbage?" Garbage is stuff people throw into the
> >trash, so you need to define garbage as used here (oh yes, and if you
were
> >thinking about just saying "Kenny G," it makes you appear stupid)*.
>
> Garbage - sounds that show no particular signs of art - I'd rather
> listen to a teenager practice than listen to Kenny G - because at least
> the teenager might do something unexpected. Who was it who called jazz
> the 'sound of surprise' [1]?; that's a concept Kenny G never picked up
> on - and that's why I call his muzak garbage.
I'm not really following you here. Your first couple phrases talk about how
you don't like to listen to Kenny G - OK, fine. That has nothing to do with
whether it's garbage. "The sound of surprise" is the second point. I could
get into a discussion about how a lot of jazz artists really aren't that
surprising, but that's not the important point here. Here's what's confusing
me: If it's not jazz, it's garbage?
> >Also, this group is meant for discussion of jazz, whether it be garbage
or
> >the greatest ever.
>
> What can you say about music that is pastiche and boring - like Kenny G.
People have been discussing it for quite a while. Whether it's jazz, whether
it's good or bad, etc.
> My problem with 'Someone' and musicians like Kenny G is that I don't
> want to be bored to sleep listening to them or reading about them -
> because there is nothing interesting to say.
>
> I notice that the smooth jazz fans here hardly ever participate in a
> thread where they're discussing particular aspects of their favorite
> artists' muzak - that's not surprising - what can be said that hasn't
> already been said about it?
Because most of the people here aren't particularly familiar with the style.
A big discussion on it is very unlikely.
JC Martin
I must've touched a nerve. But at least you're getting the attention you so
crave. But I remain...look within. the answers to your life issues don't
rest with us.
-JC
JC Martin
Which part of my post can't you absorb?
-JC
JC Martin
news:5AiA9.4740$XF5.6...@news2.west.cox.net...
Could you spare us please? One troll on the subject of smooth jazz is
enough. The devil's advocate position you take is getting tired Adam.
Leave it be.
-JC
Adam Bravo
> Could you spare us please? One troll on the subject of smooth jazz is
> enough. The devil's advocate position you take is getting tired Adam.
> Leave it be.
I'm not playing devil's advocate just for the hell of it (pun intended).
Believe it or not, I actually do believe that when the majority of people
classify a particular style of music as jazz, it is jazz. Granted, a lot of
this discussion is just peripheral issues, but it certainly does have to do
with the core topic.
Someone
"Jasbird" <jasbird@> wrote in message
> I notice that the smooth jazz fans here hardly ever participate in a
> thread where they're discussing particular aspects of their favorite
> artists' muzak
I wonder to which aspects of music you refer?
So far as I have been reading this ng most of the discussions here do not
focus on the technical aspects of the music. Like most fan-based new
groups, the bulk of the messages are from people wanting or sharing
recording recommendations and collector information, as well as postings
from the press and concert announcements and reviews.
Someone
> > Because most of the people here aren't particularly familiar with the
style.
> > A big discussion on it is very unlikely.
And these same people can't wait to line up for the Kenny G bloodletting
because the guy doesn't know how Charlie Parker got his nickname.
Eric
> And these same people can't wait to line up for the Kenny G bloodletting
> because the guy doesn't know how Charlie Parker got his nickname.
No. Not because he didn't know. Because he insisted that his half-baked
version was correct.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
KG: "...Charlie Parker would squeak a lot, and that's why they called him
Bird, because his reed would chirp."
B&N: "You think that's why they called him Bird? That's interesting."
KG: "That is why they called him Bird. That was the deal. He played so
fast, and his reed would chirp because it...I don't know, it just
couldn't take the speed of his fingers."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
LOL!
If he just would have said that he didn't know why they called him Bird,
that would be a different story. But he didn't.
J D Chance
> You might have to go back to the recordings of The Jeff Lorber Fusion to
> find Kenny playing in a style other than the one frequently derided in rmb.
> "JimValiant" <jimva...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20021106185409...@mb-cm.aol.com...
> > Everybody's been handy with some wacky comedy, but no one has really
> answered
> > the question, and I'd really like to know: Is Kenny G. known to be a
> competent
> > jazz player when he wants, and just chooses not to? Or can he not really
> play
> > jazz? Also, what is thought of Grover Washington, Jr.'s ability to play
> real
> > jazz? Is he respected?
met G caddying for him at a club in LA one day and mentioned I liked his stuff he did with Jeff Lorber - and then he said he never recorded anything with Lorber - insisting on it with his friend who was there with him as I referenced some Lorber albums I thought I saw G's name on - and for the rest of the day he joked around about that yet was also serious about it - repeating it many times during the walk that he never recorded with Lorber - yet I knew that he did and still have no idea why he was denying it and was so adamant about it